Marc Andreessen & Andrew Chen Talk Creative Computers
Summary
TLDR本视频剧本探讨了人工智能和加密货币等新兴技术所引发的道德恐慌,以及这些技术如何推动社会变革。讨论了游戏行业如何成为技术创新的前沿,包括AI在游戏开发和多媒体内容创造中的潜在影响。强调了开放源代码在AI发展中的重要性,并展望了游戏行业及其相关领域的未来,预测将出现更多由创始人驱动的、具有持久愿景和激进产品路线图的公司。
Takeaways
- 🌐 世界在变化,技术如人工智能(AI)和加密货币正在不断发展,尽管伴随着道德恐慌和质疑。
- 🔒 学术界正在探索如何突破现有技术限制,以促进创新,而不是仅仅限制它们。
- 🎮 游戏行业是技术革新的前沿,例如GPU和3D技术最初都源于游戏行业。
- 👨👧 家庭生活中,共同的游戏体验可以加强亲子关系,同时促进学习。
- 📈 技术悲观主义者往往因为对新事物的恐惧和不理解而持保守态度,但历史上的道德恐慌很少成真。
- 🛠️ 技术工具无论好坏,都将对社会产生影响,重要的是我们如何使用它们。
- 💡 创新往往源于个人对技术的热爱和对改进现有产品的热情。
- 📊 政府在推动大型创新项目方面的能力已经减弱,现代的创新更多来自私营部门。
- 🚀 成功的创业公司往往需要超越初期的成功,建立起能够长期发展和创新的机构。
- 🌐 游戏行业正处在技术、商业模式和应用领域的交汇点,预示着新的变革。
- 🛑 过度监管可能会阻碍创新,如核能行业所示,而适度的监管可以促进健康发展。
Q & A
为什么当前世界对人工智能(AI)和加密货币等技术存在巨大的道德恐慌?
-新技术的出现往往会伴随着所谓的道德恐慌,人们担心这些新事物会对社会秩序造成破坏,甚至毁灭世界。这种现象在历史上对每项新技术的出现都有所体现,如电力照明、自行车、视频游戏等。当前对AI和加密货币的恐慌也是这种历史模式的延续。
为什么说AI是一种全新的计算机类型?
-传统的计算机是确定性的,需要精确的指令来执行任务,而AI代表了一种概率性的计算机,它可以基于概率生成不同的答案和内容,这种特性使得AI在创造性方面展现出与传统计算机完全不同的能力。
在游戏行业中,为什么说现在的世界已经改变,并且正在改变?
-游戏行业已经从单一的软件销售模式转变为提供长期、持续增长的平台模式,这些平台可以不断增加用户、内容和体验。此外,新技术的应用,如在线体验、用户生成内容、AI等,使得游戏体验更加丰富和复杂。
为什么游戏行业对于创业者来说是一个有吸引力的领域?
-游戏行业不仅可以提供娱乐和商业上的成功,还因其在应用新技术方面的前沿地位,为创业者提供了广阔的创新空间。此外,游戏行业的成功企业可以基于早期的成功建立起长期、有远见的产品研发路线图。
为什么说游戏行业可能会对教育和其他领域产生影响?
-游戏行业拥有将复杂和吸引人的元素结合在一起的能力,这种能力可以应用于教育和其他领域,创造出既有趣又有效的学习体验。例如,通过游戏化的方式,可以使学习变得更加吸引人和有效。
为什么说娱乐不仅仅是无关紧要的小事?
-娱乐是生活的重要组成部分,它为人们提供了乐趣和享受,有助于提高生活质量。游戏、电影等娱乐形式是人们生活中不可或缺的,它们可以带来快乐和放松。
为什么说健康护理行业需要像游戏一样吸引人?
-健康护理行业需要转型,从被动治疗转变为主动健康。这意味着需要创造出能够鼓励和支持人们健康生活方式的系统,而这种系统需要像游戏一样具有吸引力,能够激发人们的兴趣和参与度。
为什么说新技术可能会使现有的产品或服务变得过时?
-技术的重大转变可能会导致全新的产品或服务模式出现,这些新模式可能会完全改变市场和用户需求,使得现有的产品或服务无法满足新的市场需求,从而变得过时。
为什么创业者需要构建自己的政策团队和政治项目?
-随着公司的成长和行业的发展,创业者可能会面临政策和监管方面的挑战。构建政策团队和政治项目可以帮助公司更好地应对这些挑战,保护公司的利益,并在政策制定过程中发出自己的声音。
为什么说AI的发展需要开源?
-开源可以为AI的发展提供灵活性和创新的动力。通过开源,更多的人可以访问和使用AI技术,促进技术的改进和新应用的创造。此外,开源也有助于防止大型公司对技术的垄断。
为什么说AI技术的发展可能会带来新的艺术形式?
-AI技术具有创造性,能够生成新的内容和体验。这种创造性可能会催生出与传统电影、游戏不同的新型艺术形式,这些形式可能会更加个性化、互动化,为用户提供全新的体验。
Outlines
🌏 世界变革与技术恐慌
本段讨论了世界不断变化的现实,以及围绕人工智能和加密货币等新兴技术的道德恐慌。演讲者表达了对技术突破的兴奋,特别是对AI的看法,认为它是一种全新的计算机平台,将彻底改变我们对技术的理解。同时,提到了与Mark的初次会面,以及随后与他的儿子JJ在游戏上的共同兴趣,展现了技术在个人生活中的作用。
🎮 游戏作为技术进步的催化剂
此段深入探讨了游戏行业如何成为技术创新的温床,举例说明了GPU和3D技术的发展与游戏行业的关系。演讲者分享了他与儿子在游戏上的亲子互动,以及游戏如何成为教育和学习的工具,特别是在数学、物理和计算机科学方面。此外,还讨论了游戏行业的市场现象,以及它如何推动技术迅速普及至大众市场。
📚 技术悲观主义与历史视角
在这一段中,演讲者讨论了新技术伴随的道德恐慌现象,举例说明了从电灯到自行车,再到视频游戏,每项技术的出现都曾引起社会恐慌。他指出,尽管存在恐慌,但历史证明,大多数新技术最终都为社会带来了积极的影响。此外,还提到了不同代际对技术的不同态度,以及这种态度如何影响社会对新技术的接受程度。
🔍 政府在技术创新中的角色
本段探讨了政府在推动技术创新方面的作用,对比了历史上的曼哈顿计划和阿波罗计划与现代的加州高速铁路项目,指出政府在大型项目中的效率和执行力已经大不如前。演讲者认为,由于顶尖人才更倾向于在私营部门工作,政府难以复制过去的成功。此外,还讨论了政府监管对创新的潜在负面影响,尤其是在核能领域的例子。
🛠️ 创业者的政治参与与政策倡导
此段强调了创业者在政治参与和政策倡导方面的重要性。演讲者提到,尽管创业者的主要职责是建立公司,但在某些情况下,特别是在面对行业特有的监管挑战时,建立政策团队和政治计划是必要的。举例说明了大型科技公司如何通过游说活动来巩固其市场地位,以及新兴公司如何需要对抗这种不平等的竞争环境。
🎨 游戏行业的创新与挑战
本段讨论了游戏行业的创新机会和所面临的挑战,特别是AI技术如何影响游戏开发和用户体验。演讲者指出,游戏行业不仅要关注娱乐价值,还要注意其在全球市场中的定位和政策环境。同时,强调了游戏行业的创新不仅限于游戏本身,还包括了用户生成内容和元宇宙等新兴平台的发展。
🧠 AI作为新型计算机的崛起
在这一段中,演讲者将AI视为一种新型计算机,它与传统的确定性计算机不同,是一种概率性计算机,能够创造和生成内容。他讨论了AI的这种创造性如何引发了一系列哲学和实践上的讨论,以及AI在商业和客户服务中的应用,例如航空公司和汽车销售的案例。此外,还提到了对AI进行'越狱'的兴奋,以及对AI未来发展的乐观态度。
🏗️ 平台转变与创业机会
此段探讨了技术转变时的创业机会,特别是当平台发生根本性变化时,旧有的产品和商业模式可能会变得过时。演讲者通过Photoshop和AI图像编辑的比较,说明了在新平台世界中,传统的图像编辑方式可能会被AI生成的图像完全取代。同时,讨论了大型AI模型和小型本地模型的潜在市场,以及开放源代码在AI发展中的重要性。
🌟 投资游戏行业的战略与愿景
本段中,演讲者分享了对游戏行业的投资战略和愿景,包括对游戏作为长期平台的看重,以及技术进步如何为游戏行业带来新的机会。他还提到了创业者的动机和目标,以及a16z如何支持这些创业者建立持久且有影响力的公司。此外,还讨论了游戏行业在教育和健康等领域的潜在应用。
🎉 游戏行业的未来与创业者的角色
在最后一段中,演讲者对游戏行业的未来进行了展望,强调了创业者在塑造这一未来中的关键作用。他希望看到游戏公司能够成为具有远见和创新精神的独立机构,能够进行大规模的技术开发和产品规划。同时,也提到了娱乐的价值,以及游戏在提供乐趣和积极生活体验中的重要性。
Mindmap
Keywords
💡人工智能(AI)
💡加密货币
💡虚拟现实(VR)
💡平台转变
💡道德恐慌
💡游戏化
💡自适应系统
💡开源
💡技术转型
💡创新
💡平台游戏
Highlights
世界已经发生了变化,并且正在持续变化,我们尝试进一步改变它。
围绕人工智能和加密货币存在巨大的道德恐慌。
学者们正在尝试破解这些技术,我对此感到非常兴奋。
AI是一种新型的计算机,需要我们重新定义它的概念。
与儿子JJ共享的游戏体验和连接。
游戏行业是许多先进技术的发源地,如GPU和3D技术。
VR和AR是目前明确的杀手级应用,特别是在游戏领域。
技术悲观主义者往往听起来更世故和明智,而乐观主义者则面临挑战。
技术道德恐慌的历史,每个新技术都曾被认为是邪恶的。
年轻一代将如何影响技术和社会的发展。
政府在技术创新中的角色正在改变,私营部门成为主要的创新驱动力。
对监管的过度反应可能抑制创新,核能行业是典型例子。
创业者应如何面对政策挑战和监管问题。
游戏行业特别需要关注AI等新技术的发展。
AI的兴起可能导致现有产品和行业的彻底变革。
开放源代码在AI发展中的重要性。
a16z对游戏行业的投资理念和对未来的展望。
游戏行业作为技术应用的前沿,对其他领域的潜在影响。
教育和健康领域可能会借鉴游戏行业的互动和参与方式。
对未来游戏行业及其技术影响的期待和愿景。
Transcripts
our assessment is basically that the
world has changed and the world has
changed is changing and we're going to
try to change it further now there's you
know enormous moral Panic around Ai and
another one around crypto and so forth
and so it's just this constant kind of
barrage of of negativity so all these
academics now trying to figure out how
to jailbreak these things and I just get
so excited I'm just I'm just like I'm
cheering on the jailbreaks I'm just so
excited like the last thing I want is
these things locked down like I want
these things to be out there like doing
all kinds of crazy stuff when I look at
AI what I see is sort of a new kind of
computer but every once in a while you
get a you get a platform shift that's
like dramatic enough where it basically
means that you you both kind of can and
have to reinvent from scratch the whole
idea of what the thing is in the first
place Mark I I don't know if if you
remember the first time we met actually
uh but we actually had a conversation
about
zingga you know because it was during
the the whole Facebook platform we had
we had lunch at hobes this was like your
your favorite spot in in in palto many
years later actually we were just
talking about this uh you and your son
JJ have continued to have gaming as part
of part of your part of your experience
part of your life that that you share
and so tell us about what what what you
guys do together and kind of your
connection to gaming I've got an
8-year-old uh just turned nine actually
on Sunday um his his birthday present
was a brand new razor gaming laptop uh
and he levitated right out of his little
shoes um so he's currently glued to it
uh it was actually very impressed they
got the 16-in screen because we want it
to be portable but they have screens now
up to I think they have one up to like
20 Ines now so I'm sure that that'll be
next year's present um so um yeah look I
mean for those of you who don't have
kids the great thing about having kids
is that uh you as a parent you get to
just like buy all the stuff that you
always wanted as a kid um and uh you you
you do it under you know the cover of
like oh yeah you know this is for the
kid um and then you bring it home and
then you take it out and then you and
then you you just you know basically
play with it he's been through four
waves of of of gaming enthusiasm and by
the way these endure they're they're
actually all enduring he goes back to
the all but Minecraft was the first one
um and then Roblox
and then kbal space program and by the
way we we're homeschooling and so he's
doing like a ton of like along with this
like a lot of math and and and physics
and computer science and Rocket design
you know with his science teacher and
stuff like that so like herbal space
programs turns out to be just like
incredibly good for that and then um and
then now recently factorio um and so he
is building Empires on alien planets
fighting bugs so I'm I'm holding back on
that what's the new game is it uh hell
divers hell divers 2 I'm holding back on
Hell divers 2 for the moment but um I I
will admit I have the little the as L
it's just a matter of
time well and gaming is you know um such
a instrumental part of a lot of people's
sort of personal experience with with
technology and Computing um and and many
folks get into into Tech you know many
of my friends because they were you know
pirating games uh you know trying to get
work around all the shareware um you
know restrictions in the 90s or you know
kind of the the all the modern versions
of that and one of the interesting
things that's been observed is that you
know gaming as an industry is is where a
lot of these kind of alpha nerd
Technologies whether it's gpus or 3D or
avatars have been created what do you
think of as kind of the canonical
example of that um in your mind and and
why do you think this happens kind of in
in in the games industry in particular
yeah yeah this is a really a super old
Trend and so this this probably goes all
the way back to probably space War uh
which was like one of the first video
games that was on I think time like time
sharing mainframes back in like 19 1960
or something so black and white you're
playing it at University kind of thing
right yeah like basically the minute you
got interaction Computing you
immediately got Gam
um and then you know of course pong
early on it's hard to remember like what
a big breakthrough that was at the time
it's like in the early '70s basically it
was even pre-personal Computing I think
is the idea of having a video an arcade
an arcade game machine um and right The
Story Goes that Nolan Bushnell you know
built this founder Atari built built the
first pong game and he put it in a pizza
parlor Mountain View um and the owner of
the pizza parlor called him up a day
later and it's like yeah this thing's
broken you know it's piece of junk get
this thing out of here and he goes in
and of course the problem is it's so
jammed with quarters that it literally
physically can't take quarters anymore
um and so yeah there's this there's this
this's this recurring phenomenon I I
think it's a bunch of things I think one
is just like you know it's it's as we
say it's sort of I don't know uh use the
term sometimes founder market fit um you
know or people building for themselves
um and so people who are super into
computers you know tend to love gaming
and they tend to want to build great
games you know I think another part is
just the the sort of the both the need
and the opportunity to kind of really
Jam the throttle forward on on what the
raw capability is of whatever the
technology is remember when 3D
acceleration was new the minute you had
that as a core capability it was just
like what's the most sophisticated
possible 3D game you could build and
that happened before like all you
started doing like CAD Cam and all these
other things there's also a great thing
about it which is game game games are
mass Market phenomenon um especially
these days and so it lets you drive
price points down right it gives you
like a direct sort of path like a real
path uh to be able to take whatever the
new capability is and drive it to the
mass Market super fast and I I I full I
fully expect this trend to continue and
it's obviously what we're seeing with
with AI right now yeah with AI by the
way also mixed I mean look mixed reality
you yeah VR VR VR both VR and AR like
it's it's it's Crystal Clear the known
killer apps right now are games like by
by a very wide margin yeah well it seems
like so much of VR has been marketed as
sort of productivity and being able to
do meetings and you know so on but all
the data is saying that it's sort of you
know High School High super high
retention it's all it's all you know
kids basically playing social social
multiplayer yeah you know gaming well
it's actually two it's two tiers like
it's the G it's the game games you know
to the EXT and then it's the right and
then it's the social the social gaming
environment but it's specifically right
it's specifically the social gaming
environments not just social
environments yes yes the games are key
to the experience that's right so so
everyone in the audience has uh has read
your your techno Optimist Manifesto you
you had to write it because obviously
most people for whatever reason don't
seem to be optimists today why are there
so many self-hating technologists like
what what is the sort of um uh sort of
root cause thank you yes yeah so so look
so there's this recurring phenomenon in
the history of of of new technologies
which is every new technology tends to
come with what's called called a moral
Panic right and so a moral Panic is
basically this term for basically
there's a new thing and so therefore
it's evil and bad and it will destroy
the world um and and if you go back in
time it's basically every single new
technology and so like there was a huge
controversy over the introduction of
electric lighting because it was going
to like you know completely disturb
nature there was huge controversy around
bicycles bicycles were a super
controversial technology when they first
came out because it was the first time
young people could actually Voyage to
like could easily get to like nearby
towns and Villages for dating purposes
and that really like upset people um the
uh actually the magazines at the time
this like 1860s 1870s the popular
magazines at the time actually had this
thing they they did this whole moral
Panic around they this thing called
bicycle face um and there those articles
about how if you got on a bicycle and
rode it uh you you the exertion required
would cause your face you know to
scrunch up and then and then and then if
you run the bicycle too long your face
would freeze like that um and then you
know looks not K there was a massive
moral Panic around video games I mean it
was just it was super clear I mean it's
just super clear like first person
shooters you know especially when when
that Coline tragedy happened it's when
you know that whole thing went just like
completely PA shaped but it was this
like incredible incredible thing of like
we're training an entire generation of
killers and of course what happened was
video games took off and actually you
know for the for the next 30 Years uh
actual you know violent crime in the US
actually dropped Like a Rock so if
anything the correlation was the reverse
uh and so there's just this tendency and
now now there's you know enormous moral
Panic around Ai and another one around
crypto and so forth and so it's just
this constant kind of barrage of of
negativity and I think it's just
something you know I don't know it's
it's like I guess a fair-minded person
would say it's like fair enough you know
the thing with new Technologies is they
they actually do change the social order
you know they do actually change how
Society works and so you know maybe
there should be some societal kind of
screening mechanism for kind of deciding
whether these new technologies are good
ideas or not and so maybe that's the
generous explanation the sort of
ungenerous explanation is just people
panic and freak out and look and then it
always sounds more sophisticated to be
negative than positive right it's like
the positive person gets accused of
being polanish and wide-eyed and you
know immature and you know you know not
cynical enough and then the pessimistic
person always sounds world you know
World weary and wise and these are just
like constant scops and they're just
like constant scops being kind of played
on us and by us and at us and then you
know look there's there's a choice and
this is you know why I wrote that wrote
the manifesto like then there's a choice
of like how we think about these things
right um and you know it's really easy
to let people talk you into thinking
that something bad is happening or
you're doing something bad or there's
something dangerous and it's you know it
takes real force of will to go up
against that and say no actually this is
going to be this is actually going to be
really good and and it's and by the way
it's not that new technologies don't
have negative consequences like you know
new technologies are tools and they're
going to have both negative and positive
consequences but there's just such a
rich history of the moral Panic
predicted societal doom and then it
actually turned out everything you know
overwhelmingly on net was fine and I I
think that will continue to be what
happens and and you you studied this
quite closely it it seems like it's
unusual to me that that the moral Panic
not only is originating in you know um
uh places outside of tech but weirdly
like inside of tech as well you know
which is which is my point about the
self-hating technologists like you know
like like why why is that a thing oh the
Millennials um
no no no
genz Millennials the genz yes gen Z gen
Z has to save us um you know I think
there actually is a little bit of a
generational thing to it you know the
Boomers were like super socially
activated you know in the 60s and 70s
with like you know the anti-war protest
at the time and the hippie movement and
everything and got like super into like
you know politics and super animated and
then you know Jen I'm Gen X and Gen X we
were all sort of cynical and Blas we
were like the reverse of of the Boomers
we were like uh we were just like
disengaged and we were Slackers um and
we we weren't going to we weren't going
to take this stuff seriously uh and then
the Millennials you know look the
Millennials just activated like they
activated what have Millennials
experienced 2001 you know 911 2008
financial crisis you know 2016 let's
just say a dramatic change in American
politics um and so yeah so the the
Millennials are just activated um and
our industry is a very large number of
very young people who are very smart
very idealistic uh very hardworking very
conscientious very motivated and they
they just and they tend to take things
really seriously and it's the superpower
of of that as a set and but it's also
they take lots of things too seriously
um and so I you know there's just a
broader kind of thing going on I I think
gen Z is going to be fascinating and
then the generation after it there's
this interesting book by this
psychologist named Jee twinge and she
goes through all the kind of charts of
like all the behavior and it's actually
the Gen Z is actually looking is looking
quite a bit different in a number of
respects um and then you know the kids
coming up behind it's going to be weird
so if you grew up pre-
internet like there's one everybody's
eyes like oh social media is really like
you know basically screwing around with
the kids and it's like well I don't know
like actually the person most prone to
be really screwed around with social
media would seem to me to be somebody
with no mimetic defenses at all which is
like a boomer right and so you take like
somebody raised on Like Walter kronite
and you like inject them onto Facebook
and like right you know they have no
ability to cope with it whatsoever right
um you know Millennials are kind of in
the middle you know Gen X Millennials
you know I'm still you know Gen X was
like pre- internet right um and so you
know we're still acclimated everything
point being like gen Z and then you know
the Gen whatever it's going to be called
The Generation my son is in like gen
alpha or whatever it's going to be
called you know they're they're just
going to grow up having had like
basically the full diet of like crazy
internet basically scop basically pop
politics just crazy Bonkers bananas like
stuff coming in you know the the level
of sophistication the kids have around
like memes you know is just off sharts
right um and so new generations are
going to be like much better at dealing
with this whole media politics you know
kind of Matrix is kind of unfolding um
so yeah well you also have I mean I
think growing up you know in the
internet now you also have like an
infinite platter of subcultures that you
can you can be part of and you know and
that's that's a lot of you know very
independent uh you know viewpoints
compared to a world where we have you
know the X number of uh you know
approved new sources and you know and so
on yeah um you know in your essay you
you talk um quite a lot about some of
the negative impacts of overregulation
and what's happened in nuclear and of
course the current current ongoing
discussion about about AI um now in the
past we've seen the government actually
um sponsor these very big innovation Pro
you know projects whether you're you
know talking about NASA or um what what
does a modern kind of Protek political
position actually you know look like and
what what's the right way to engage
government in in all this yeah so people
look back you know this movie
appenheimer that just swept the Oscars
which is of course extraordinary movie
you know tells sort of the Manhattan
Project story um and then there's you
know the famous Apollo project you know
people look back on that and my friend
Peter in particular looks back on those
projects and says wow like those were
kind of great achievements you know
going to the moon and you know winning
World War II and like and you had this
like massive government organized top
down you know Oppenheimer General Groves
like you know military project you know
they build new cities in like three days
and you know they get all the world's
leading physicists in one place and
everybody's you know working on a single
goal and it's just this amazing
achievement and it's like why can't we
do that anymore and and and with that
sort of the deeper question is why can't
the government do that anymore and the
answer is just like I that was an
artifact of its time um in particular
you know the Manhattan Pro was in the
40s Apollo was in the 60s Mo what modern
Venture Capital startups as we know and
understand it you sort of started in the
70s and so I I I think a big thing there
is just adverse selection uh the kinds
of people who can run projects like that
just don't work for the government
anymore um they're in the private sector
um and so it just that that Avenue is
not available and If if you need if you
need to reinforce your your views on
this just take a look at the California
highspeed Rail Project um which is now
10 billion it's over 10 billion in spend
um with uh zero ground broken like not
even an inch of highs speed it's like
the California highspeed rail prevention
program um and I think they're going to
spend like $100 billion doar and like
literally not building anything like
it's quite amazing well all these are
measured by cost per you know mile or
whatever and what happens when you
divide by zero divide PS exactly so well
and you know there's these Bart
extensions happening it's even San Jose
which is a more rational city than San
Francisco and I think it's up to like I
don't know the there's like this mov
it's like this Doppler effect where
every year that goes by you add like
another billion dollars to the cost and
then project out the dead you know the
the finished date another 3 years so
it's just this project that's just kind
of kind kind of go to infinity and so
like it's just I I just think those days
are over it's just not happening and so
what happens and by and by the way
anybody basically smart I've ever run
into in the government basically says
the same thing it's like the Pentagon
we're not going to build new weapon
systems in the Pentagon we're we're
going to it's going to be it's going to
be private sector and you know therefore
companies like andril uh are paler and
then the relationship between the
government and private sector is just
always a little bit fraught right
because there's basically two ways to
regulate things there's basically one
one way to regulate things is sort of
the traditional American Way which is um
you know everything is allowed except
that which is prohibited um is sort of
one approach to law and then there's
kind of the classic European approach
which is the opposite which is
everything is prohibited except for that
which is specifically permitted right
and if you the EU is just passing this
AI law right now it's going to be a
version of that right like if yes you
can do AI in the in in Europe if you get
approval from the government ahead of
time which they won't give you um and
then you know we applied that method in
the US for nuclear power right we we
basically decided that nuclear power was
prohibited by default right um the
nuclear power story is tremendously
illustrative of this so uh Richard Nixon
in the early 1970s implemented two
programs in parallel uh one was a a
program called project Independence uh
which was to build a thousand new
civilian nuclear power plants in the US
by the Year 1980 um and the goal you
know from the name project Independence
was for America to be energy independent
from the rest of the world so number one
to be able to pull completely out of the
Middle East like no more of that um and
then number two uh have like basically
infinite clean you know clean zero
carbon zero carbon emissions coming from
nuclear power plants um you'll notice
that didn't happen
um none of that happened um because his
other program was called the nuclear
Regulatory Commission um and their job
was to prevent that from happening um
and they did not approve a new nuclear
power plant designed for 40 years wow um
and so they they implemented sort of
again this this this other form and so
you know at that level it's like okay
then we're you know we're going to get
what we want um and you know we we as a
society have to decide which way we want
this to go um you know everything about
how the American government operates is
oriented towards trying to switch more
and more to the sort of classically
European model to try to you know
basically choke off avenues for for
private Innovation you know look a a lot
of people think that's you know those
ideas are good because you know the risk
like what if things go wrong but the you
know the consequences are very very
severe because it's logic if the public
sector can't do it the private sector is
not allowed to do it then it's not going
to happen and so look these These are
really big questions and of course it's
hard you know these are not super like
you know flashy issues that are easy for
a politician to get up in front of
people and talk about you know this
isn't going to draw as much press
attention ever you know as sort of the
the more politically sort of
inflammatory topics but you know this i'
say is a very serious underlying
topic how how do you think about when
founders read your
Manifesto um you know as soon as it came
out I mean you know there was such a
ground swell of of support and um you
know all the builders on social media
you know you know talking talking
through this and um how do you think
about what Founders can do or should do
if they if they agree with everything
that you're saying what's the next next
level after showing social media support
and then and then and and and and then
what after that yeah so first just look
this social media support is actually
super helpful so part of is just like
what are people proud to stand for right
um and if if you know I don't know to
stand for something you have to be like
a renegade and you have to be like ready
to just get attacked by everybody and to
just have all your friends think that
you're you know being stupid or evil
like that that's hard for people and so
the the more people who actually stand
up and basically say that they have that
they have a position the more socially
acceptable it is for everybody else to
do it um so that that you know that's
one um two is you know I I wouldn't
encourage Founders to get super involved
in in politics because Founders have
full-time jobs but you know there there
are politicians who are on who are more
on the right side of these things and
others and you know they're worth
supporting um and we have a we we we
we've launched sort of a really
ambitious political program uh in the
last year because we we've just had it
with people basically taking free shots
on goal on startups and so um we're
trying to support a lot of the
politicians on the right sides of these
issues and I think that's something that
people might might choose to do um and
then third is look at at some point like
especially if you're an IND industry
where you're going to run into this kind
of thing you know I think it is worth
thinking about it you know not for the
first few years but as your company gets
built out I mean I I think more more
companies especially more young
companies um in in our industry are
going to have to step up and like build
policy groups policy teams and political
programs and have packs and and you know
have put real effort into this quite
honestly I mean part of what's happening
is Big Tech is against us um there
there's a basically a lot of the
political issues now are a civil war
inside the tech industry where the big
tech companies are lobbying very
aggressively for what they regulatory
capture so they're lobbing very
aggressively to have basically laws and
rules that only they can comply with um
you know because they've got Legions of
you know lawyers and and and compliance
people and so forth to be able to comply
with you know all kinds of complicated
rules they're in Washington you know all
the time and have been for several years
now basically lobbying to have
regulatory barriers such that they can
function uh but startups can't um and I
think more more more young companies are
just going to have to confront that
directly yeah well and and I think in in
the games industry in particular it's
it's a it's an interesting one because I
think you know many of the folks here
many of the folks in the audience are
are you know they're like oh I'm I'm I'm
part of this industry that's just about
making things that are fun like all the
stuff seems so far away and you know I
think one of the things that I would
remind everyone of is like look you know
everything that's happening in the games
industry around AI is going to
absolutely affect you know all of us
it's also gaming as a global industry so
you're already seeing a lot of
interesting things happening in the
geopolitical sphere um you know how
active can you know a tensent or a net
or you know one of those be and you know
how easy or hard is it to um launch the
products in in Europe there's a whole
number of kind of consumer safety
Provisions you know you were just
talking about and then you know and then
a lot of the most interesting new
platforms like um you know ufn and
Roblox which are user generated you know
content platforms you know all all the
metaverse work that's also happening as
well um you know all of those kind of
fall into user generated you know this
whole War that's happened o over over
social media and user generated content
because you know in the end it's like as
soon as users are get to actually make
things
and express you know how they feel then
then all of a sudden it's it's not it's
not that different from from social
media so I I actually you know I think
one one of the most interesting things
about the games industry is that it's
actually I think a lot of the issues um
you know Mark that you mentioned in the
manifesto are actually quite close as
issues in the industry it's not it's not
like a far away thing yeah and and there
are gaming companies that have hit this
stuff directly uh in the past um yeah
social media companies all thought that
they were creating like fun things for
people to play like Twitter is what what
did your cat have for breakfast and if
you were like a fan of Twitter you'd be
like wow it's great to be able to talk
about my cat had for breakfast and if
you thought Twitter otherwise you just
thought Twitter was stupid because it
didn't matter when it it was irrelevant
well my favorite example is Facebook got
just tons of you know it's just like
this is the most trivial stupid useless
you know thing that doesn't matter you
know Facebook there was almost a deal
for Facebook to get bought by Yahoo
early on and I remember a certain very
prominent tech journalist um might be
flogging a book right now um uh said at
the time she said she said Mark
Zuckerberg should take the billion
dollar Yahoo deal you know and Facebook
stes worth like 1.2 trillion so she said
Facebook should take the the billion
doll Yahoo acquisition quote and and and
run away as fast as his little flip
flops can carry him um right um and and
it was just like her just like absolute
dismissal that this stuff would ever
matter and then basically within like
five years it was like Facebook is like
the living demon incarnate on Earth and
destroying everything right it went from
like useless to evil in one step right
you know the headline you never it's
never just like oh this is kind of cool
right like that's never the story like
this is kind of useful some people like
it it's either like pointless or
evil um
and so and there there look there is is
a history in games like this and a lot
gaming companies in the past have been
through this and so yeah it's worth it's
worth at least paying attention to if
you were like uh you know hypothetically
you were exiled for a few years and you
had a team of you know a couple dozen
people to to work on any any problem of
your choosing um you know what what area
would you would you end up so I should
start by saying I have not pressure
tested the following idea at all I
haven't done any of the things that we
require our Founders to do before we
fund them uh in terms of actually
thinking anything through so this is
just me cting because I'm not I'm not
going to do it there is something I
think super super fascinating at the
it's it's at the it's at the convergence
point of let's just say immersive
entertainment or experiences and you
know and I think VR AR is one version of
that but also just like immersive worlds
um on traditional screens um the
intersection of that and then and then
and then the intersection with with with
AI you know we're doing a lot of work in
AI a lot of work in gaming a lot of work
in media and so I I spend a lot a fair
amount of time talking to folks in
gaming you know thinking about Ai and
games I spend also a fair amount of time
in in um talking to people in like the
entertainment industry about like AI in
movies and you know TV and things like
that and of course that's you know quite
controversial already um the Assumption
in a lot of these conversations just oh
AI is a new way to create game assets or
AI is a new way to do special effects in
movies and I I kind of Wonder it's like
actually is there actually a new art
form here right that's actually not a
game and not a movie but like it's
something in the middle and it's
something that basically it's like an
experience that's like totally tailored
to the user an experience that never
ends everything is generated on the Fly
you know with a level sort of synergy
but synergistic kind of you know
feedback loop between between the user
and the system um and you know the
metaphor some people have used for this
is you know you know dreams like is is
there is there like a new medium here
which is basically creating dreams it
seems kind of obvious because if you can
if you if an AI can basically learn and
generate content then that seems like a
straightforward thing but what's
interesting is like there there is no
that's not a movie it's a very different
than a movie because by the way it might
go for 5,000 hours right um and it might
be seated by a human creative but you
know it might then it might then be very
uh you know related to specific user
movies aren't like that it might be like
a game but it's also not quite a game
because maybe you're not playing it
maybe you're experiencing it or maybe
it's you know maybe it's some other you
react to it or live in it in a uh in a
different way and there's there's no
precedent for this there's no model
there's no company that does this the
movie studios aren't going to do it
because they they just make movies the
game Studio companies aren't going to do
it because they make games and so I
think there might be something new oh
and then of course and then of course
you know there's the single player
version but then there's of course the
mind-blowing you know ones which are the
multiplayer massively you know massively
multiplayer dreams like what is that
right right yeah I think I think the new
the new form formats are definitely
interesting always because you could
imagine when you know uh user generated
content and getting content online when
YouTube comes out um in uh uh you know
gets popular in 2005 2006 you might have
thought oh well one day all the you know
content creators are going to make
movies and put them on YouTube but
that's actually not what happened you
know they actually ended up making all
these uh you know Vlogs and all these
shows and um you know all these sort of
new native formats that exist only on on
on YouTube um and then it turns out that
watching you know an hour of uh you know
10c you know uh video clips is actually
more engaging than the the the Hollywood
format you know of that and so in I
think in the same way just as uh it
might be easy to think about um just
cost savings for um for for for gaming
from AI that that you know doing
something that's completely a new format
like like what you're talking about sort
of sort of feels like that that that's
the new category my my nine-year-old
games and and then YouTube YouTube
videos about games you know is his
entire thing when he gets screen time
and so um he just like I used to ask you
want to go watch a movie and I could see
in his head I could see him doing the
math of 90 minutes of movie versus 45
YouTube videos he's like
no so I finally created I've created a
movie club daddy Movie Club uh which is
Sunday at lunch um where we watch movies
and um uh he likes it once we start them
but like it's always on the way into the
living room he's kind of
like can I bring my laptop into the
movie with me
um and so yeah I think there there's a
lot of there's a lot of signals that
things are headed in this direction yes
let's let's talk about AI now um and and
something that obviously the whole the
whole firm and and yourself are spending
um a lot of time on um so people often
compare AI to just these big General
technologies that have emerged um you
know over the last few decades whether
it's mo mobile or Internet and in in in
what ways does Ai and everything that's
been happening remind you of some of the
prior waves versus you know what way is
it completely new different what's
happening with AI right now doesn't map
to any of those and and the reason is
because I when I look at AI what I see
is sort of a new kind of computer like a
fundamentally new kind of computer and
the way I would describe that this goes
to all of the by the way all the
controversi issues issues around AI also
which is um you know for 80 years we had
we've had a model of a computer which is
sort of this like super you know literal
thing that can like do math you know at
a trillion Cycles a second but like you
have to tell it specifically what to do
every single time and then you know and
we call these you know deterministic
computers where you know you tell it
exactly what to do it always gives you
the same answer it never you know it
always gives you the exact literal
answer um by the way if it doesn't give
you the right answer on something it's
because you screwed up right you you
programmed it wrong um uh when I use you
know llms or diffusion models or these
things it's it's like no I'm dealing
with a different kind of computer right
there's input there's output it's doing
things for me um but it's a
probabilistic computer and you have the
same question twice it gives you
different answers which is just in and
of itself a pretty mind-blowing thing um
and then you know there and then there's
the hallucination thing and and you know
the hallucination thing is like you know
it's this incredible thing because like
Engineers look at the hallucination
thing and they're like wow this is like
a crippling problem you know I can't
believe this thing is like making up
answers it doesn't know what the truth
is but if you if you put your kind of
creative hat on or talk to creative
people they're like well it's creating
right it's like you have a computer
that's creating things right and you get
into all these philosophical debates
about what the nature of creation is and
originality and all that but like it's
creating things um and sometimes the
things it creates are pretty funny um
and pretty entertaining these are these
are creative computers um and and you
know there's been all these examples
recently but I think it was Alaska
Airlines uh put one of these online as a
customer support bot a lot of airlines
have some bement policy where you can
get a refund for you can get free
flights to go to funerals or something
um and uh turns out Alaska Airlines
didn't have a bement policy but the the
llm felt sorry for the for the customer
so it made it made up a bement policy um
and promised him a refund on his ticket
um and then there was another case where
a GM dealership put up a sales chatbot
uh and it talked the customer to buying
a Tesla um
so and I see it's like Tes is a really
great car
um much more environmentally friendly so
if you're literal minded you look at
that you're horrified but if you're if
you're like if you put your creative hat
on you're like wow like this is like the
coolest thing I've ever seen I get
excited whenever anybody is is I love on
Twitter and you know there all these
academics now trying to figure out how
to jailbreak these things and I just get
so excited when I I've just I've just
like I'm cheering on the jailbreaks I'm
just so excited like the last thing I
want is these things locked down like I
want these things to be out there like
doing all kinds of crazy stuff I think
it's it's absolutely fantastic point is
like I think the metaphor if anything is
to like the creation of the
microprocessor or something it's it's
it's it's it's the it's the B the birth
of a new kind of computer by by the way
if you go back in history there there's
a great book on neural network which is
the foundational technology behind all
this was actually invented 80 years ago
in in 1943 amazing uh it's the first
neural network paper that basically
we're still we're still all of our work
today is is still derived from that um
there was actually a debate there was a
debate in the nent computer world in the
30s and early 40s when they were just
didn't get the stuff to start to work
and there was there was a whole school
of thought that said this what they call
vanoyan machines the sort of linear kind
of model was actually the wrong model
and that basically the Entire Computer
should have been built from scratch on a
model of the human brain and they had
basically this exact discussion back
then in sort of a very crude and simple
form and and and sort of History went
one way and now history's going to like
come back around and now now we have
both to choose from so I think now we're
going to live in a world where basically
you're going to have a proliferation of
AIS in the same way that you've had
microchips uh which is by the way
they're be paired basically I think
anything with a chip is going to have an
AI and you're just going to you just
basically you're just going to assume
that everything has an AI um and there's
going to be you know many billions of
tiny models running everywhere there's
going to be a few big God models in the
sky um and then there's going to be a
lot of stuff in the middle you know
being customized and tailored for all
kinds of all kinds of things to to what
extent do you think that um you know
when when the the web was created and
you know when when mobile apps were
created because there was this rush to
sort of redesign the the the user
interface um that that sort of allowed
uh you know new startups to sort of uh
be able to come into existence with the
mobile native way of doing things as
opposed to you know um the the prior
version and and in this it's interesting
in because the platforms are still kind
of the same and and so to what extent do
you think incumbents just have the upper
hand by just integrating AI features
into into their existing products versus
versus uh you know startups being able
to do something from scratch yeah so
this is the big thing that we always
think about inent this is big thing we
always think about day jobs and Venture
Capital which is like okay there's
certain technology shifts where the
incumbents can just add the new thing
and then there's really not an
opportunity for startups um and the
scenario here would be you know
Photoshop just adds AI photo editing and
you're done right it's just it's done
They just added it and they're done and
it's just the world world keeps going
with Adobe as the big company by the way
that's true for a lot of a lot of new
technologies I like that you just kind
of add the new thing and by the way even
mobile like there were some new mobile
companies like uber and uh and lift and
Airbnb and but you know look you know
Google and Facebook adapted to mobile
just fine like there there's no there's
no mobile search engine right that that
took over and one of the reasons
Instagram is so big is because Facebook
deliberately made it big by transferring
over a lot of the a lot of the usage and
so it turned out there wasn't an
independent startup opportunity there um
you know but every once in a while you
get a you get a platform shift that's
like dramatic enough where it basically
it basically means that you you both
kind of can and have to reinvent from
scratch the whole idea of what the thing
is in the first place and so the the
that would be literally you know that
would be like mid Journey right so so
Photoshop plus AI editing versus mid
Journey or dolly
um and and so in in in in the full
version of platform shift basically the
whole idea of Photoshop plus AI image
editing is just like you know at some
point just becomes completely irrelevant
like C can you believe people used to do
that you know people used to fiddle with
pixels like seriously um because you'll
live in this new world and in the new
world you'll just tell the machine what
you want for a photo for an image and
it'll generate you as many options as
you want and it's generating you
something that's better than you would
have been able to do anyway and like
you're totally happy and the whole idea
of fiddling with you know image pixels
is like writing a machine code or
something people still ride horses it's
just like for like Rich fancy people
like for fun right um and you know I you
know so you know in this scenario
someday people will still still do image
editing but it'll be like three like
weirdo designers in Norway or something
that you know we'll still be will'll
still be into this kind of thing or
graphic you know graphic designers in
their retirement um um and it'll just be
a new way of doing things right and then
basically our bet always is like we're
and we're you know when we make mistakes
it's because we kind of we kind of
overestimate the degree to which this is
going to happen um but but our whole
thing is to basically try to get in
front of this and try to you know
basically make the assumption that
you're going to have complete turnover
and look this has happened before like
there's an entire generation of
Mainframe software companies that turned
over that didn't exist anymore basically
once the PC came out a lot of the PC
software companies never adapted the web
a lot of those companies just went away
these kinds of shifts do happen they are
radical the the key question though is
like can you reinvent the entire product
like can can can you imagine like
basically just like the the old rules
don't apply anymore there's a completely
different way of doing the thing um and
and you know this certainly feels like
that just talking a little bit more
about kind of incumbents there's there's
sort of this thought that um you know
there there's a world in which which the
AI models are owned by a small number of
companies you know the the god models in
the in the Sky versus the version where
there are lots and lots of little things
and and I know you know um we've talked
quite a bit about kind of the the role
of Open Source you know potentially in
Ai and and it would be great to to hear
you expand on on that and kind of the
the importance of that you know the big
companies and this is you know this is
sort of what we call the sort of
incumbents tech companies doing Ai and
then what we call the new incumbents
which are like the companies that have
raised you know billions of dollars in
their new AI companies but they're
already incumbents um you know if you
listen to them you basically hear two
things number one is like obviously
everybody's only ever going to use the
big models um and and the reason for
that by the way is a very good argument
in that direction which is they're just
always going to have the best answers
right and and and and what what they
basically say is like look this Market's
going to be like the search Market was
like which is you know of course you're
always just going to ask Google log
search search like there's no market for
like you know vertical search engines in
all these different domains you just
Google just always gives you the best
search answer on almost every
practically everything um there there
was no it turned out there was no
startup opportunity to build to build
smaller search engines um and so it's
just obviously that everybody's just
going to run and everybody's going to
you know tap into a chat GPT or a CLA or
something or a Gemini through an API and
you know pay by the drink and that's the
way it's going to work and then of
course the other thing you hear from
those companies is AI is scary and evil
and needs to be regulated um and we need
this regulatory wall so that startups
can't function anyway and by the way we
should probably ban open source while
we're at it because that's also evil and
scary um so and you know it's sort of
interesting how those um uh those uh you
know kind of statements kind of you know
go together um look we're we're big
Believers in the exact opposite like I
said you know we're big Believers that
um there's just going to be such a giant
number of use cases specifically there's
be a giant number of like local use
cases um like you know your door knob is
going to have an llm in it that's going
to control whether or not people get
through the door right and like you are
you really going to do a round trip up
to the supercomputer and the cloud to do
that by the way you want to because do
you want the supercomputer in the cloud
knowing who's coming in and out of your
house right um and then just the cost
associated with that is going to be you
know it's going to be very expensive um
relative to what you could do with a
small model uh you in the doorknob and
by extension kind of in in everything
else and then yeah open source is
clearly a way to kind of give people the
flexibility to be able to implement Ai
and basically everything and we're yeah
we're very fired up about that and we're
as one example we're the major investors
in mrr which is you know at least right
now the leading ai ai open source
company y um and we're going to we're
going to fight hard to help them you
know succeed and have this model succeed
yeah I mean it's it's been it's been so
impressive to go from I remember you
know being at a point where we were all
just sending articles around um and you
know screenshots of things that we were
you know uh doing on chat gbt to all of
a sudden this being you know really like
the primary focus of the firm and and a
ton of ton of hiring a ton of new
efforts everything kind of you know
around that yeah I was just I'm just out
in the car trying to I was just before
this trying to close a deal we're in a
hot shoot shootout for a hot deal and
it's a video it's a related to video
it's just like wow the implications of
this like the entire nature of what
video is could change right just like
the entire Assumption of like what's in
a video and how it reacts to users like
the whole thing like you know one of
these things where you could imagine
looking back in a decade and being like
I can't believe people used to watch you
know static videos at all like it just
doesn't make any sense it's like
watching a silent movie obviously videos
should be like responsive in real time
you know and so it's like it's this kind
of thing where it's like you know the
entire world of anything everything
involving video might just like
completely change um so yeah awesome um
well I'll I'll uh I'll I'll wrap up with
one one or two kind of final questions
um you know one is uh talk to us about
how um you know when when we began um
you know doing more investing in games
and actually before I even showed up at
the firm I think we had invested in uh
in Zinga and Oculus and a couple others
I think Chris Dixon had pioneered a lot
of it but what was it that gave gave you
personally the conviction to take on
games as as as as as one of the as one
of the main areas for for a6z yeah then
there's a classic argument you'll hear
in Venture if you talk to VCS there a
classic argument you'll hear as to why
VC shouldn't invest in games it's
basically an artifact in my view of
later the ' 80s 90s 2000s period in
which it actually was pretty dangerous
to invest in games and the the the the
reason for it was just number one games
are sort of viewed as like hit as a you
know classic hit driven business and you
know and then the game would come out
and it would kind of if it succeeded it
would have like a revenue Arc that
looked like that right um like a movie
or something um and then there was just
economics that flowed from that that
basically said like the movie studios
make most of the money in movies the the
platform publishing companies uh like EA
make most of the money in games and so
there's really and and you know even if
you start a new startup studio and you
build a new game franchise it'll just
get bought by one of the platform
companies and there's not really much
upside you know to it um because of the
industrial logic of of distribution and
all those things and so um so just it
was like it was not considered kind of
to be a viable area for for Venture
investment for a long time um our
assessment is is basically that the
world has changed and and the world has
changed is changing and we're going to
try to change it further and I guess I'd
say so several things so one is you game
as you know package software that has
that you know looks like a movie versus
game as sort of permanent platform and
uh you know sort of foundation that then
you end up building 20 or 30 or 40 Years
of experiences on top of um and here
again it's just not and now now this is
getting more obvious because you know
you go right through my Minecraft Roblox
there's more and more examples where
like clearly this is happen you know
clearly this is exactly what's happening
um and so you know basically from a
business standpoint assets that can
actually grow on value for for for
decades and they can keep adding users
and keep adding content keep experiences
and keep broadening out so so one is and
that's totally that's totally Venture
Venture investable those those are great
businesses um so that's one two is
looked like all these other Technologies
kicking in and so the traditional game
industry was you know was was an
artifact historically of basically like
not being online right um you know and
even still today like you know a lot of
games that you buy like they may have
multiplayer mode but they're not really
built it's like full online experiences
but now you can build as like full
online experiences and you can take
advantage you know you can have real
economies you can have user generated
content platforms you can have you can
use AI um you you you know many many
many sort of ways to make these just
like a fundamentally more sophisticated
experience um and so there's sort of get
the benefit of all these technology
Innovations um and then I would say
third is just you know Founders this is
sort of the thing in the past is like a
lot of the great game designers of the
past you know it's like they just they
want they want they want to build a
they're a little bit like movie
directors they want to build a game they
want to get paid in cash um when they're
done building this game they want to
build another game it's probably a
different game um and fundamentally they
kind of want to work for a studio um
because that's that's where they get
you know our kind of found is not that
our kind of found wants to build a
product but then wants to build a bu and
wants to build a and wants to build
something that's going to be enduring
and expansive and have you know enormous
vision and become you know very big and
important in the world um and have a
giant R&D agenda and a you know very
aggressive you know product road map and
and and so forth and so and and then and
then run their own thing and then you
know be the CEO you know and actually be
in control of the whole thing we've been
very encouraged by the number of smart
people coming out of gaming who who want
that that's right that's right um
because because they see that in other
sectors of of software Tech and they
they want to do that and then we're also
helping you know we're trying to help
encourage that yeah well I mean and and
that's personally been one of the most
interesting things about you know
building the speedrun program is just
being able to use a marketing motion to
just discover all the founders that want
to work in you know game studios or
they're building infrastructure or
they're building Ai and and just the
enormous number of them that that you
know many of you know that um you know
last year when we when we put this out
there it was it was uh you know nearly
6,000 companies actually applied to be
part of of of the speedrun program and
we we anticipate this you know
continuing to grow and so there's just
you know a fantastic amount of um Talent
the other thing just the other thing is
very exciting for for me is you know I
mean look I think games as entertainment
are fantastic and they very socially
positive and productive and I love them
and it's great uh and it's fantastic um
but but also like you know we mentioned
earlier like the games are always on
like The Cutting Edge of applying new
technology yes I I also think like the
the skill set of what it takes to make
great games I think also more and more
it's just going to apply in many many
other domains like some people tried
this but like someday there's going to
be a great educational experience and
it's going to look and feel like a game
like that just seems like Crystal Clear
like you know the great health problems
of our time you know for the most if you
just look at the numbers the health
problems of our time are not like random
things that just happened to us the
great health problems of our time are
the consequences of our own behavior
right and so they they call metabolic
diseases um you know which is like you
know you're you know you're fat you're
lazy you don't get enough sleep um right
and then there's all this Downstream you
know diabetes and cancer and everything
that's heart attacks it's Downstream
from that um and so it's like it's very
clear that like the the whole world of
healthare Health Care is not oh
something's wrong I need to go to the
doctor and get it fixed the whole
healthare has to be transformed into I'm
I'm healthy my entire life because I'm
making myself healthy and that's a hard
thing to do and the system that supports
you in doing that is going to feel like
a game because it has to it has to be
engaging it has to be it has to be
something that you enjoy uh dealing with
and so like there's no question like
that's going to happen um and so there's
there's all of these other areas of life
and business I think that are going to
get transformed by this kind of
mentality and skill set and and riffing
on something that that you said before
in the past is uh you know we're we're
willing to spend a billion dollars
building you know Grand Theft Auto and
we're willing to spend hundreds of
millions of dollars to you know create
create a movie but when it comes to you
know what is the most amazing computer
science 101 right you know class you
know how much how much money are we
willing to put into that versus how much
you know amazing output do we get from
from you know potentially put you know
building something at that quality for
for something like this yeah it's
amazing you know look you the best in
the world and you know you guys all been
through this most of you think G gone to
college at least for one day before you
dropped out but um but uh you know the
muks like made this like super clear
right it's just like okay MIT TCS 101
like whatever that is it's just like oh
it's you know after whatever 200 you
know whatever amount of time they put
into trying to figure out it's just
still like you know dude in front of
chalkboard right like it's just like
like really like like really right and
so yeah so the the thought experiment
I'm always proposing in The Firm is like
what what's the model where you hire
Steven Spielberg to make CS 101 right
and it's like you know $200 million
production and it's like the most like
fantastically entertaining thing you've
ever seen that's be like the movie
version or you hire you know I don't
know you know John carac or somebody to
make uh you know to make uh to make that
sounds like it' be fun make the game
version of it right exactly like and
look it's just like could you afford to
do that it's like well you know look
like you just take the total number of
kids in the world that need to learn
computer science you know it's just like
the numbers at least in theory the
numbers they there you could make the
economics work um yeah so yeah people
have taken swings at this there have
been some early some you know some early
successes but no nobody's done the big
thing yet but I think somebody will yeah
absolutely yeah I hope so so uh talk
about what you hope you know a16z and
then also just you know honestly this
broader community of Founders is able to
accomplish in in in the games industry
in kind of the adjacent sectors like
what what does what does success look
like for you what what what are your
what's your aspiration for what happens
in the industry yeah look so I mean like
there's a lot of ways to think about it
you know look you know we talked a lot
about technological transformation um uh
we talked a lot about uh you know new
business models we talked a lot about
applying you know game methods you know
kind of outside of Gaming you know I
think those are all great and then again
I think entertainment I'm always always
like it's always like oh this you know
ENT entertainment is Trivial
entertainment is not trivial like we're
not supposed to go through life
depressed and like just like being like
drudged like oh God we're supposed to
have fun like we're like life is
supposed to be fun it's supposed to be
enjoyable we're supposed to have like
games and movies and and things that we
like to you know it's great right so we
would just love for there to be just to
be crystal clear that like the primary
opportunity for the best people in this
field is they can build they can build
companies and they can build companies
that you know are able to you know be be
independent they they're able to have
you know very distinct Visions uh you
know very radical ideas they're able to
build teams to execute against that and
and then really CR crucially like based
on their early success they're then able
to build themselves into institutions
that can really endure for a long time
and then have like extremely expansive
product road maps right I you know
example of this like fa you know
Facebook I told you the flip-flop story
earlier like you know Facebook's now in
a position you know Facebook's you know
spending you know on the order of 20
billion dollar a year on VR right like
he's worked him you know Mark has worked
himself into a position where he's able
to do that and the Google guys have been
able to do that in other areas like
self-driving cars and and you know now
and now ai and so when when these
companies get in position where they've
got like that kind of you know basically
Vision at the helm um and you know this
the sort of Founders and founding teams
at at the best of these companies and
then they and then they have their early
win like they can get in position where
they can start to really do really big
ambitious things um and so I I think in
in the my hope would be that the
companies the companies that that all of
you are doing that the result of that is
going to be a set of companies that are
going to be really World defining in the
decades ahead amazing let's give Mark a
hand good awesome thank you thank you
good thank you
[Music]
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