Panorama : Scandal at the Post Office BBC Documentary 2020

Summary

The video script details a scandal involving the UK's Post Office, where hundreds of postmasters were wrongfully accused of stealing money due to bugs in the Horizon computer system. Despite internal knowledge of these issues, the Post Office pursued prosecutions, leading to imprisonment and financial ruin for many. A campaign by affected postmasters, bolstered by investigative journalism, eventually led to a High Court ruling acknowledging the system's flaws. The Post Office has agreed to pay £58 million in compensation, and the Court of Appeal is reviewing dozens of convictions. The scandal has raised serious questions about corporate accountability and the need for transparency and justice within institutions.

Takeaways

• 📰 The Post Office scandal involved the wrongful prosecution of hundreds of postmasters for alleged theft, based on faulty evidence from a flawed computer system called Horizon.
• 🚨 Post Office management was aware of the Horizon system's vulnerabilities and yet accused staff of stealing, leading to severe consequences including imprisonment.
• 💻 The Horizon computer system was known to have bugs that could cause discrepancies in financial accounts, but the Post Office continued to use it as evidence against postmasters.
• 🤫 There was a culture of secrecy within the Post Office, and they were criticized for their lack of transparency and denial of the system's flaws.
• 💰 The Post Office has agreed to pay £58 million in compensation and legal fees, but the extent of the scandal suggests that more may be owed to those affected.
• 🏛️ The Court of Appeal is reviewing the convictions of 47 postmasters, and the Post Office is reassessing 900 prosecutions that may have involved flawed Horizon evidence.
• 🤔 The scandal raises questions about the integrity of the Post Office's leadership and its commitment to justice and transparency.
• 📉 Public trust in the Post Office has been severely damaged by the scandal, with calls for a public inquiry into the institution's actions.
• 🛡️ The Post Office's refusal to acknowledge the Horizon system's issues and to provide adequate support to postmasters has had devastating effects on the accused and their families.
• 📋 Internal documents and evidence indicate that the Post Office was aware of the Horizon system's problems but chose not to disclose this information, leading to potential cover-ups.
• 🚨 The case highlights the importance of robust oversight and accountability in institutions, especially when they hold the power to significantly impact individuals' lives.

Q & A

What is the main issue discussed in the transcript?

The main issue discussed is a national scandal involving the Post Office, where hundreds of postmasters were wrongly accused of stealing money due to bugs and errors in the Horizon computer system.

What was the role of the Horizon computer system in this scandal?

The Horizon computer system was used by the Post Office to manage accounts and transactions. However, it had bugs and errors that caused discrepancies, making it appear as though money had gone missing, leading to false accusations against postmasters.

What was the consequence for the postmasters who were wrongly accused?

Many postmasters were jailed, some were forced to pay back large sums of money, and their lives were severely impacted, with some losing their homes and others experiencing personal and professional ruin.

How did the Post Office respond to the scandal when it first emerged?

Initially, the Post Office denied any wrongdoing and insisted that the Horizon system was robust. They accused postmasters of theft and continued to prosecute them, despite evidence of the system's flaws.

What was the outcome of the High Court case brought by 557 postmasters?

The High Court ruled in favor of the postmasters, finding that bugs in the Horizon system could make it look like money had disappeared. The Post Office was criticized for its culture of secrecy and for insisting on the system's reliability despite evidence to the contrary.

What compensation has been agreed upon for the affected postmasters?

The Post Office has agreed to pay £58 million in compensation and legal fees. Additionally, the Court of Appeal will review the convictions of 47 postmasters, and 900 prosecutions may involve Verizon evidence.

What was the role of the BBC Panorama programme in uncovering the scandal?

The BBC Panorama programme played a crucial role by presenting evidence of remote access to the Horizon system without postmasters' knowledge, which was later deemed significant in the High Court case and contributed to the postmasters' victory.

What did the investigators, Second Sight, uncover during their investigation?

Second Sight, the independent investigators appointed by the Post Office, uncovered evidence suggesting a cover-up within the Post Office. They found that legal files were withheld, and there was evidence of remote access to postmasters' accounts, which was not disclosed to the accused postmasters during their trials.

What was the reaction of Paula Vennells, the former CEO of the Post Office, to the scandal?

Paula Vennells expressed regret over the situation and the impact on the colleagues and their families. However, she did not provide direct answers to questions regarding her tenure and the Post Office's actions during the scandal.

What are the demands from the public and politicians regarding this scandal?

There are calls for a public inquiry into the scandal, with demands for transparency, accountability, and justice for the affected postmasters. Politicians and the public want to see those responsible held accountable for the miscarriage of justice.

What steps is the Post Office taking in response to the scandal?

The Post Office has launched a scheme to offer redress for those who may have experienced shortfalls due to the Horizon system. The new leadership is promising fundamental change and greater transparency to address the issues raised by the scandal.

Outlines

00:00

📰 Post Office Scandal: Lives Ruined by Faulty System

The first paragraph discusses a national scandal involving the Post Office, where hundreds of lives were ruined due to a faulty computer system that made money appear to go missing. Postmasters were accused of stealing, and some were jailed. The Horizon computer system was at the center of the issue, with evidence suggesting that the Post Office was aware of its flaws yet continued to prosecute staff. The narrative follows individuals like Janet Skinner, who was sentenced to jail despite her insistence on innocence. The scandal is described as potentially one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in British history.

05:00

💼 The Post Office's Culture of Secrecy and Miscarriages of Justice

This paragraph delves into the Post Office's culture of secrecy and the consequences it had on postmasters. The Horizon system's bugs were proven in court to cause discrepancies, leading to the Post Office agreeing to pay £58 million in compensation. The Court of Appeal is set to review the convictions of 47 postmasters. The Post Office's initial denial and subsequent admission of the Horizon system's issues are highlighted, along with the revelation that the Department for Post Office Affairs was aware of problems with the system, which was not disclosed to those affected.

10:02

🤔 Cover-Up Allegations and the Search for Truth

The third paragraph focuses on allegations of a cover-up within the Post Office regarding the Horizon system's problems. Internal documents reveal a pattern of errors and a lack of transparency, with postmasters like Alan Bates fighting to prove the system's flaws. The post office's refusal to release legal files to independent investigators is also mentioned, suggesting a deliberate obstruction of justice. The narrative includes accounts from those who have suffered as a result of the scandal and the ongoing quest for the truth and justice.

15:04

🚨 Uncovering the Truth: The Role of Legal Files and Evidence Suppression

This section discusses the critical role of legal files and the suppression of evidence in the scandal. It tells the story of Seema Mishra, a postmaster who was wrongfully convicted of theft, highlighting how key evidence that could have proven her innocence was withheld from her trial. The paragraph also describes how an email from the Post Office security team about a bug in the Horizon system was not disclosed, which could have impacted the outcome of her case and others. The post office's denial of any wrongdoing and its claim to have always accepted legal obligations are also covered.

20:04

🛠️ Remote Access and the Integrity of the Horizon System

The fifth paragraph uncovers the possibility of remote access to the Horizon system, which could have allowed financial records to be altered without postmasters' knowledge. This revelation points to potential human error or theft by those with secret access. Despite initial denials, evidence presented was crucial to the postmasters' victory in the High Court. The Post Office's subsequent admission of misleading statements and the Ernst & Young report from 2011, which warned of Fujitsu staff's unrestricted access, are also detailed. The paragraph concludes with the Post Office's commitment to reviewing its disclosure practices.

25:04

🏛️ Calls for Accountability and a Public Inquiry

The final paragraph addresses the demand for accountability and transparency from the Post Office, with calls for a public inquiry into the scandal. It discusses the impact on the lives of those affected, including imprisonment and loss of livelihoods. The paragraph highlights the government's stance on the issue, the Post Office's new leadership promising change, and the refusal of the former CEO, Paula Vennells, to answer questions regarding her tenure. The victims' insistence on uncovering the truth and holding someone accountable is emphasized, with the story serving as a stark reminder of the importance of justice and integrity in national institutions.

Keywords

💡Post Office Scandal

The Post Office Scandal refers to a situation where the UK's Post Office wrongly accused and prosecuted hundreds of postmasters for alleged financial discrepancies, which were later found to be caused by faults in the Post Office's Horizon computer system. This scandal is the central theme of the video, highlighting a grave injustice.

💡Horizon Computer System

The Horizon Computer System is the software used by the Post Office to manage its branch accounts. It is central to the scandal as the system's bugs and errors led to false accusations of theft against postmasters. The system's flaws are a primary focus of the video's investigation.

💡False Accusations

False Accusations are the wrongful charges of theft brought against postmasters by the Post Office based on the flawed Horizon system's data. These accusations are a key element of the scandal, as they led to severe consequences for the accused, including imprisonment and financial ruin.

💡Postmasters

Postmasters are the managers of individual post offices. In the context of the video, they are the victims of the scandal, having been wrongly accused of financial crimes due to the Horizon system's defects. Their stories form the human narrative of the injustices uncovered.

💡Compensation

Compensation refers to the financial remedy provided to those who have suffered a loss or injury. In the video, the Post Office agreed to pay £58 million in compensation and legal fees to the affected postmasters, reflecting an acknowledgment of the harm caused.

💡Court of Appeal

The Court of Appeal is a judicial body that reviews the convictions of individuals, especially in cases where new evidence or procedural errors have come to light. In the video, it is mentioned as the entity that will review the convictions of 47 postmasters, potentially rectifying past injustices.

💡Cover-up

A cover-up is an attempt to hide the truth or conceal wrongdoing. The video suggests that the Post Office may have engaged in a cover-up by not disclosing known issues with the Horizon system and by allegedly altering legal files and evidence, which contributed to the wrongful convictions.

💡Whistleblower

A whistleblower is an individual who exposes illegal, unethical, or incorrect practices, especially within an organization. In the context of the video, a whistleblower from Fujitsu, the company that ran the Horizon system, revealed that financial records could be altered remotely, which was a significant revelation in the case.

💡Redress Scheme

A redress scheme is a system established to provide remedies for those who have been wronged. The Post Office launched such a scheme to offer compensation to postmasters affected by the Horizon system's issues, indicating a step towards acknowledging and rectifying the scandal.

💡Public Inquiry

A public inquiry is an official investigation conducted into a particular matter of public interest or concern. The video mentions calls for a public inquiry into the Post Office scandal to fully uncover the extent of the wrongdoing and to hold those responsible accountable.

💡Accountability

Accountability is the obligation to report, explain, and be responsible for one's actions. In the video, the demand for accountability is expressed by those affected by the scandal, as they seek to ensure that the individuals and entities responsible for the injustices are held responsible.

Highlights

The Post Office scandal has been described as one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in British history.

Hundreds of postmasters were prosecuted over missing money, with evidence coming from a faulty Post Office computer system called Horizon.

Post Office management accused staff of stealing, despite knowing that the Horizon system could cause money to go missing on its own.

Postmasters were jailed and faced financial ruin, with some being forced to pay back large sums based on the system's errors.

A ten-year investigation revealed a culture of secrecy and denial within the Post Office regarding the Horizon system's flaws.

Janet Skinner, a postmaster, was jailed for nine months after the Horizon system showed discrepancies in her accounts.

Alan Bates, a former postmaster, spent 20 years fighting to prove that Horizon's bugs caused money to vanish from his post office.

557 postmasters took the Post Office to court, resulting in the Post Office agreeing to pay £58 million in compensation and legal fees.

The Court of Appeal is reviewing the convictions of 47 postmasters, including those featured in the program.

Internal documents show that the Post Office was aware of serious problems with Horizon, contradicting their claims that the system was robust.

A whistleblower revealed that Fujitsu staff could change financial records remotely without postmasters' knowledge, affecting account balances.

The Post Office initially denied the possibility of remote access but later admitted to misleading the court.

The Horizon system's errors and the Post Office's handling of the scandal led to a national outcry and calls for a public inquiry.

Paula Vennells, who ran the Post Office during the scandal, expressed regret but did not address specific questions about the Post Office's actions.

The Post Office has launched a scheme to provide redress for those affected and is promising greater transparency and fundamental change.

Politicians and victims are demanding accountability, with some calling for a judge-led public inquiry into the scandal.

The scandal has transformed a much-loved national institution into a national disgrace, with lives shattered by the Post Office's actions.

Transcripts

tonight on panorama shocking new

evidence about a national scandal I've

never heard of anything like it at all

it's a quite extraordinary story we

reveal how the post office ruined

hundreds of lives

they're been lying not just of the

supposed must have to everybody they've

been lying from day one the post office

knew its computer system could make

money go missing but they accuse staff

of stealing anyway

it's chilling I mean my blood run cold

and postmasters were jailed because

bosses kept the truth from coming out

okay cool

it's kind of injustice on people and

then just walk away with it scot-free

[Music]

for ten years I've been investigating a

scandal at one of our most loved

institutions it may turn out to be one

of the biggest miscarriages of justice

in British history the post office

prosecuted hundreds of postmasters over

missing money post masters like Janet

Skinner and then just repeatedly ask me

the same questions did you steal the

money have you taken the money have you

borrowed the money

I've lent the money to some of the day

the evidence against the postmasters

came from the post offices computer

system horizon in 2006 it showed 21,000

pounds missing from Janet's till

she panicked and hid the shortfall in

her accounts while she tried to work out

what has happened

I knew that I hadn't done anything wrong

and I just thought it's the problem

it'll come back so what happened next

week it just doubled and then it just

got beyond the point where it was like

had just buried my head in the sand and

I didn't know what to do to be honest

[Music]

when auditors arrived at Janet's branch

horizons showed fifty nine thousand

pounds was missing the post office

charged her with theft and false

accounting then they offered her lawyer

a deal he said if you will accept the

guilty plea for frame false accounting

they'll drop the theft charge - and then

I said well what does that mean say I

said well it means she probably were

we're looking at a custodial sentence

and so I said well I'll do that then

Janee because I didn't want to go to

jail

[Music]

but Janet did go to jail she got a

nine-month sentence

[Music]

on her first night inside she was

allowed to call home

I remember fun tickets

[Music]

what were they saying to you and all of

them me sir she's a lot command Co he

well you're not going to see me so I

don't miss growing up without memory of

me post masters were told they had total

control of their horizon accounts so

when money went missing the post office

said it was their fault but what if the

computer made mistakes there's a very

early one of me in 2000 even a lot

younger in those days so I think that

was the first time we ever had to

anything in print which was December

2003 2003 former postmaster Alan Bates

has spent 20 years trying to prove

horizon made money vanish from his post

office

there's a lovely quote from you here I'm

going to fight this for as long as it

takes because of the grave injustice I

feel has been done to myself

and the people have Craigie done in the

way my contract was terminated great

fight this for as long as it takes and

yeah unfortunately I seem to be living

up to my word team in two decades on

Allen was sacked after refusing to pay

back money horizon said was missing he

was one of the first to argue that

computer bugs were responsible but the

post office wouldn't listen I've always

felt that they've been trying to keep it

covered up the whole thing covered up

about the condition of the system how

many people are sitting on the truth of

what they knew at the time it has to

come out now there are so many people

who have suffered over the years with

all of this and there are probably so

many more out there that we haven't

heard from yet more postmasters joined

Allen's campaign I've met dozens of them

over the years like Sue Knight who was a

respected member of her church and local

community she lost her home those

Toffees had no idea what them or knoll

thomas he was accused of stealing fifty

thousand pounds they waited for a

suspended sentence and he said take him

down

I spent my 60th birthday in Christian or

Joe Hamilton whose customers raise

thousands to pay off the money she was

accused of stealing we're not gonna stop

until they actually address what they've

done and be helped to account for what

they've done

[Music]

557 postmasters took the post office to

court

[Music]

some had been jailed and some had been

forced to pay back large sums of money

the computer said was missing horizon

was put on trial and the postmasters

were proved right

bugs in the computer system could make

it look like money had disappeared the

judge has found that on numerous

occasions over the years

bugs errors and defects in the horizon

system caused discrepancies in

postmasters branch accounts

the judge criticized the post office for

insisting horizon was robust when the

evidence proved it wasn't this approach

by the post office has amounted in

reality to bear assertions and denials

that ignore what has actually occurred

it amounts to the twenty-first century

equivalent of maintaining that the earth

is flat the judge found that there was

an excessive culture of secrecy within

post office and that definitely

reflected our experience of dealing with

them it was very difficult to get things

out they held all the cards and they

weren't exactly putting them down on the

table face up

[Music]

the post office has agreed to pay 58

million pounds in compensation and legal

fees but that may just be the start the

Court of Appeal will now review the

convictions of 47 post masters including

all the convicted post masters featured

in this program the post office is also

assessing 900 prosecution's that may

involve Verizon evidence this is

potentially a huge miscarriage of

justice and I support fully the demands

of people who are affected by it get

answers are now finally I hope we're on

the verge of getting justice and closure

for the people affected by this

miscarriage of justice the post office

says the court found the risk of bugs

affecting balances in older versions of

horizon was greater than post office

believed it does not mean every

shortfall was caused by a bug and each

case would need to be determined on the

full evidence the post office should

have done more to investigate the risk

and provide more help to postmasters

that is something we deeply regret

[Music]

the High Court case has given me the

chance to finally get to the truth I got

access to dozens of internal documents

they show problems with horizon coming

up time and time again these documents

show that post office knew there were

serious problems with horizon so when

they service system was very bust that

wasn't true the people's lives have been

destroyed because of that

they show error after error logged by

the IT firm running the system some bugs

made it look as if money had gone

missing

these messages show the post office

known as pole was told but they carried

on prosecuting postmasters anyway

there were bugs that affected horizon

before Janet Skinner was accused of

stealing we've uncovered farthest that

demonstrates the post office knew about

bugs in horizon well before they

prosecuted you we should have been aware

made aware of the system failings that

was going on there just didn't tell

anybody

do you think the Department of

prosecuting you were aware yes horizon

had bugs and force yeah oh yeah and

they're just obviously just ignored it

[Music]

the lawyer who advised Janet to plead

guilty is now a Labour MP

he says they should never have been put

in that position by the post office

that realization that Janet Skinner

perhaps shouldn't have been in the

situation that she was in how did you

react personally was chilling I mean my

blood ran cold we now know she should

never have been prosecuted in the first

place she went to prison a life was

absolutely categorically ruined those

problems that they knew about then there

were not disclosing any of that at the

time and we now know we certainly

suspect strongly that those corporate

cover-up this is the woman who ran the

post office for almost a decade

all of ennals always insisted she wanted

to get to the truth about horizon we are

a business that does genuinely care

about the people that work for us and if

there had been any miscarriages of

justice it would have been really

important to me in the post office slip

that we actually surface those

politicians have tried to hold her to

account went along to the post office

headquarters and met all of an owl's the

chief executive of the post office and

we said we can't go on like this this

has got to be sorted out there's a real

problem here the response we got was

actually very encouraging they said

we'll do this properly we'll get to the

bottom of it

in 2012 the post office appointed

independent investigators called second

sight to look at the postmasters

complaints about horizon they were

promised full cooperation

I made it completely clear to the

chairman and chief exec that this was

not an investigation I was remotely

interested in carrying out unless they

were committed to the seat to the search

for the truth that's the only way we

operate well there was the famous feed

phrase seek the truths at all costs but

the post office is independent

investigators soon suspected there was a

problem with the convictions out of all

of the cases that we looked at I don't

think we ever came across a single

example where the proceeds of crime so

to speak had ever been identified in any

form of satisfactory way I might have

expected to hear about an expensive

holiday or a flash car war or something

like that we saw nothing to indicate

that if money had been stolen that it

had been used to benefit the sub

postmaster although their immediate

family

Second Sight were initially given access

to internal legal files but then the

post office stopped handing them over

the investigators told em piece we

unsurprisingly asked for full access to

those legal files well why don't you

give this files over the point I want to

pick up first answer my question but why

won't you give Ian Henderson in those

files well as far as I'm aware mr. Saar

we we have shared whatever information

was appropriate on everything most of

the legal files were never released the

investigators paid by the post office

think there's been a cover-up if there

was a decision taken to deliberately try

and put obstacles in the way of your

investigation why well I think that's

pretty screamingly obvious it's the

consequences of a loss of confidence in

the underlying core system horizon so it

is existential for the post office to -

to maintain the position that the

horizon is completely reliable and the

people and the processes surrounding

horizon are completely reliable

the post office says it cooperated with

Second Sight as appropriate second sites

were not experts in criminal law and it

was therefore not appropriate for them

to have access to the privilege to

prosecution files it says it seen no

evidence of a cover-up

those legal files are critical to the

first case I ever encountered in this

scandal it's the story of a postmaster

called Seema mishra there's no evidence

that I've taken any money and then the

jury came back with the word guilty what

I was had in front of me my husband my

children and I'm pregnant that time

Seema was jailed for stealing seventy

four thousand pounds after she covered

up the fact cash was missing key

evidence came from the horizon computer

system in the summing up the judge said

there's no direct evidence of theft

you have to infer it how can somebody

doing listening who did properly come

back with the word guilty so there was

it was shocking and then you then had to

go to prison yeah I asked one of the

officers if I can borrow his jacket so

they can cover my handcuff I didn't want

anybody to see like that

sima might not have been convicted of

theft had her trial heard the truth

about horizon

we've found crucial evidence in her

legal file that was never seen by the

jury these documents are shocking they

show post office prosecutors refusing to

hand over information which could have

helped SEMA prove her innocence this is

just one example an email from the post

office security team to the criminal law

team it's about a bug in horizon that

makes money simply disappear the

security team are worried it may have

repercussions in future prosecution

cases the attachment says that any

branch encountering the problem will

have corrupted accounts

in one case more than 30,000 pounds went

missing in another almost 5,000 pounds

the document was printed out by the post

office legal department just three days

before SEMA mistress trial but it was

never disclosed to her defense we showed

our evidence to a leading expert on

criminal law what do you think of the

behavior of the post office throughout

the mr. Truong it seems to me and it

goes to the heart of this that quite

clearly the post office had material

which they should have disclosed which

they did not and in my view resulted in

the wrongful conviction of missus mistre

there should be a thorough examination

of all the evidence in respect of any

person who might have committed

misconduct in the course of these

prosecutions by the post office the post

office says it has always accepted its

legal obligations and has taken advice

throughout

it's conducting a further review about

disclosure

[Music]

it wasn't just computer bugs that the

post office was keeping to itself

there was another way money could

disappear from the horizons system in

2015 we discovered postmasters accounts

could be changed without them knowing

we made a panorama which uncovered vital

new evidence but it was bitterly

contested by the post office

the horizon computer system is run from

this office in Bracknell by Fujitsu

a whistleblower told us that financial

records were sometimes changed remotely

by Fujitsu staff he knew because he was

one of them

[Music]

and went in through the back door and

made changes sometimes you'd be putting

several lines of code in at the time if

we hadn't done that then the counters

would have stopped working

[Music]

it was an explosive revelation if the

accounts could be altered remotely then

missing money could be down to human

error or worse still theft by those with

secret access to the system the post

office said we were wrong senior

managers flatly denied remote access was

possible without the postmaster knowing

one meeting was recorded it wasn't for

broadcast so we've reversed their words

can the system be accessed remotely and

without anybody's knowledge in terms of

it doesn't leave a footprint then no it

would leave a footprint so in sum it is

not now I never has been possible but

anybody from post office or Fujitsu to

interfere with transactions without the

clear knowledge of the postmaster it is

100% true to say we can't change alter

and modify existing transaction data so

the integrity is 100% preserved and

that's true now has been okay

[Music]

[Music]

despite these denials our evidence of

remote access was crucial to the

postmasters victory in their High Court

case the BBC Panorama programme that you

did in 2015 was very important in that

in fact I'm not sure that this

litigation would have happened as it did

had panorama not made that programme the

judge decided our whistleblower was

right remote access was possible without

the postmaster knowing

why was that so important because it

made a fundamental difference to the

reliability of the accounts and a

fundamental difference to the

credibility of post office in what it

had been saying to a number of people

including in response to your program

[Music]

the post office told the court it had

inadvertently misled panoramas

[Music]

the post offices barrister said it was a

matter of enormous regret that the

senior managers who dealt with panorama

were not aware that remote access to

horizon was possible the post office

claimed that that was just an honest

mistake but our documents suggest that

isn't true

this Ernst & Young report was sent to

post office directors back in 2011 it

says it has again identified weaknesses

in the horizons system and it warned

that Fujitsu staff have unrestricted

access to post masters accounts that may

lead to the processing of unauthorized

or erroneous transactions so the post

office knew all along that remote access

was possible we showed our evidence to

the then chair of the business Select

Committee what does that say to you

about their attitude towards the truth

they right they're mistaken although of

misleading the courts but this document

just suggests that they couldn't be

mistaken because the truth is here in

black and white just spell out to us how

serious that is but I think this is very

serious it is very serious that the post

office was sitting on information that

told them and could have told the courts

and their sub postmasters that other

people could access their systems

fujitsu was also sitting on information

the judge was so worried about the

evidence for Jitsu witnesses had given

in other post office cases he referred

the matter to the Director of Public

Prosecutions Fujitsu says it takes the

judgment very seriously and is

conducting a thorough process to review

the court statements the post office has

launched a scheme it says offers redress

for those who may have experienced

shortfalls its new leadership is

promising fundamental change and greater

transparency

[Music]

so what about the woman who was in

charge of the post office for so long

Paul of enols left the organization last

year and was given a CBE by the

government and two new jobs but the

government has now turned against her

there's no question that the post office

management at the time behaved

disgracefully none of them are now in

position

officials were misled but by the post

office of the information provided was

was not correct Paul of enols declined

to be interviewed but said it was and

remains a source of great regret the

colleagues and their families were

affected over so many years she's truly

sorry

we were unable to find a solution or

resolution and for the distress this

caused

but she hasn't answered any of our

questions hello miss rennolds it's Nick

Wallis from the panorama program this

conversation is being filmed I'd like to

ask you some questions about your tenure

as chief executive of the post office no

I would like to ask you why the post

office knew about remote access to the

horizon system this is one of the

biggest frustrations about covering this

story for so long the consistent refusal

of the chief executive and the people at

the top to answer serious questions

about what's been happening I think the

post masters deserve better than that

[Music]

MPs have demanded answers from Paula

phenols and politicians on both sides of

the house want a public inquiry people

went to prison people's livelihoods were

lost and some of the victims ended their

lives that is enough for a judge led

public inquiry I've never heard of

anything like it at all

we're a government-owned organization

attacked on the basis of false evidence

the integrity of so many pillars of the

community it's it's a quite

extraordinary story has there been a

cover-up I believe that there has been

and it's probably still going on the

postmasters won't stop until they get to

the truth they're being lying Noor just

ELISA Postmaster to everybody they've

been lying from day one

I want to see somebody be held

accountable for what's happened because

you can't go you can't create its kind

of injustice some people and then just

walk away with it scot-free

a much-loved national institution has

become a national disgrace and hundreds

of lives have been shattered by the

scandal at the post office

[Music]

you