The Problem With "Soulslike"

Summary

This video script discusses the impact of 'Dark Souls' on the gaming industry, highlighting its influence on game design and the subsequent emergence of the 'Souls-like' genre. It critiques the tendency to label games as derivative without considering their unique contributions, and argues for a focus on core gameplay loops rather than superficial similarities. The script calls for a reevaluation of genre naming conventions to better reflect the evolution and creativity in game development.

Takeaways

• 🎮 Dark Souls is renowned for its intricate level design, satisfying combat, and captivating world, and is often cited for its high difficulty.
• 🔥 The term 'Souls-like' has become a catch-all for games that share even the slightest resemblance with Dark Souls, leading to a perceived naming crisis.
• 😅 The concept of difficulty in games is humorously attributed to Hidetaka Miyazaki's creation of Demon's Souls in 2009, suggesting all games before were 'brain dead easy'.
• 🔍 The script critiques the tendency to label games as 'Souls-like' for borrowing elements like bonfires, stamina bars, and estus flasks, which originated from Dark Souls.
• 🤔 It questions why the 'Souls' moniker is still used for games that share only superficial similarities, suggesting it may stifle creativity and innovation.
• 📚 The script points out that genres like 'roguelike' and 'metroidvania' have evolved and diversified, yet the 'Souls-like' label has not seen the same flexibility.
• 🎬 The video script compares the influence of landmark films and music genres, which have not seen their titles become genres themselves, unlike the 'Souls' phenomenon.
• 🚀 It argues that all games are derivative to some extent, and that borrowing from predecessors is a natural part of creative evolution in any medium.
• 🛠️ The script highlights the importance of creating games that adhere to their vision rather than conforming to established genre mechanics.
• 🌟 It suggests that the core of the 'Souls' genre is the gameplay loop of encountering challenges, learning from failure, and persisting, rather than specific combat mechanics.
• 📖 The video references Mark Brown's Game Maker's Toolkit video, which proposes that the genre should be based on the elements that define Dark Souls, such as slow, deliberate combat.
• 🔄 The script concludes that the 'Souls-like' genre should evolve in its terminology to better reflect the diversity and innovation of games it encompasses.

Q & A

What is the main topic discussed in the video script?

The main topic discussed in the video script is the influence of the Dark Souls series on the gaming industry and the issues surrounding the labeling of games as 'souls-like' or derivatives of the series.

Why is the Dark Souls series considered influential in the gaming world?

The Dark Souls series is considered influential due to its intricate level design, satisfying combat, captivating world, and notorious difficulty, which have set a new standard for challenging games and inspired many others to adopt similar mechanics and aesthetics.

What is the issue with labeling games as 'souls-like'?

Labeling games as 'souls-like' can create a naming crisis and an obsession with derivative titles, which may stifle creativity and innovation by suggesting that games should adhere closely to the original Dark Souls formula.

What is the difference between 'roguelike' and 'rogue-lite'?

A 'roguelike' refers to games that closely adhere to the original Rogue game's mechanics, while 'rogue-lite' or 'rogue-lites' are games that share some elements with roguelikes but are not as strictly defined, allowing for more variation and innovation.

What is the significance of the term 'Metroidvania' in gaming?

The term 'Metroidvania' is a portmanteau of 'Metroid' and 'Castlevania' and is used to describe games that feature a sprawling world with areas gated behind abilities, upgrades, and items, similar to the gameplay mechanics of these two series.

How does the script suggest we should view the evolution of game genres?

The script suggests that game genres should be viewed as evolving and innovating rather than being strictly defined by their original titles or mechanics, allowing for a more diverse and creative gaming landscape.

What is the core gameplay loop of the Dark Souls series according to the script?

The core gameplay loop of the Dark Souls series, as described in the script, involves encountering a challenging obstacle, dying, and repeatedly attempting to overcome it with the knowledge gained from previous attempts.

What is the script's stance on the naming and categorization of games that are similar to Dark Souls?

The script criticizes the trend of labeling games as 'souls-like' and suggests that it is time for the language used to refer to these games to evolve, reflecting the diversity and innovation in game design.

What is the script's opinion on the game 'Grease'?

The script praises 'Grease' for taking elements from the Metroidvania genre and using them to tell a powerful story through its gameplay, without being constrained by the need to conform to a specific genre checklist.

What does the script suggest as the 'soul' of Dark Souls games?

The script suggests that the 'soul' of Dark Souls games is not their combat mechanics but their core gameplay loop, which includes the cycle of encountering challenges, learning from failures, and persistently trying to overcome obstacles.

How does the script address the issue of game developers designing games that are too similar to Dark Souls?

The script argues that developers should focus on creating engaging and innovative games rather than strictly adhering to the mechanics of Dark Souls, allowing for a more diverse and creative approach to game design.

Outlines

00:00

🎮 Dark Souls' Influence on Gaming Difficulty

This paragraph discusses the impact of From Software's Dark Souls on the gaming industry, particularly in terms of difficulty. It highlights how Dark Souls is often credited with redefining game difficulty and how subsequent challenging games are seen as paying homage to it. The script humorously suggests that the concept of difficulty in games did not exist until the release of Demon's Souls in 2009. It also touches on the naming conventions of games that are similar to Dark Souls, criticizing the tendency to label them as 'souls-like', which it argues stifles creativity and suggests that games should stick closely to the original.

05:00

🌐 The Evolution of Gaming Genres and Innovation

In this paragraph, the script explores the evolution of gaming genres and the importance of innovation over mere replication. It contrasts the naming and categorization of games like 'roguelike' with the 'souls-like' genre, arguing that the latter's naming convention is restrictive. The script uses examples like 'metroidvania' to illustrate how genres can be defined by a combination of elements from different games. It also discusses how developers can take inspiration from various sources and create unique games, such as Hollow Knight, which was not solely designed to emulate Dark Souls. The paragraph emphasizes the need for a core gameplay loop that engages players, rather than adhering strictly to established mechanics.

10:03

🌟 Embracing Creativity in Game Design

The final paragraph wraps up the discussion by emphasizing the importance of creativity in game design. It mentions the upcoming release of Elden Ring, a new game from From Software, and suggests that the gaming community should look forward to innovative experiences rather than just more 'souls-like' games. The script encourages viewers to engage with the content, like and comment on the video, and subscribe for more content on games, movies, and animation.

Keywords

💡Dark Souls

Dark Souls is a critically acclaimed action role-playing game known for its challenging gameplay, intricate level design, and deep lore. It is central to the video's theme as it discusses the game's influence on the industry and the subsequent naming of similar games as 'Souls-like.' The script mentions Dark Souls as the progenitor of a genre and the subject of emulation by other games.

💡Difficulty

The term 'difficulty' refers to the challenge level of a game, which is a significant aspect of the Dark Souls series. The video emphasizes the notorious difficulty of Dark Souls and how it has become a benchmark for challenging games that followed, influencing the perception and design of difficulty in subsequent titles.

💡Souls-like

Souls-like is a term used to describe games that share similarities with the Dark Souls series, particularly in terms of gameplay mechanics and difficulty. The video discusses the overuse of this term and how it has become a genre label, often applied to any game with medieval fantasy elements and challenging gameplay, as seen in the script's discussion of 'souls-like difficulty' and 'souls-like mechanics.'

💡Demon's Souls

Demon's Souls is the game that is credited with introducing the concept of modern difficulty in gaming, as mentioned in the script. It was created by Hidetaka Miyazaki and is considered the precursor to the Dark Souls series, setting the stage for the 'Souls-like' genre.

💡Influence

Influence in this context refers to the impact that a particular game or creator has had on the gaming industry. The video talks about how Dark Souls has influenced game design, with many games adopting its mechanics and aesthetics, thus shaping the 'Souls-like' genre.

💡Roguelike

Roguelike is a genre of games characterized by procedural generation, permadeath, and a focus on exploration. The video uses 'roguelike' as an example of how a game can inspire a genre without necessitating direct imitation, contrasting it with the 'Souls-like' genre.

💡Metroidvania

Metroidvania is a genre that combines elements from the Metroid and Castlevania series, featuring exploration and acquiring new abilities to access previously unreachable areas. The script uses this term to illustrate how genres can be defined by core gameplay elements rather than direct copying of mechanics.

💡Hollow Knight

Hollow Knight is a game mentioned in the script as an example of a 'Souls-like' or 'Metroidvania' game. The developers of Hollow Knight were inspired by various games but did not aim to replicate Dark Souls, instead focusing on creating a compelling experience that organically incorporated elements of the genre.

💡Griez

Griez is a game highlighted in the script for its innovative approach to the Metroidvania formula. It was designed to be accessible and linear, contrasting with the typical non-linear exploration of the genre, and used its mechanics to tell a story about the stages of grief.

💡Core Gameplay Loop

The core gameplay loop refers to the fundamental cycle of play in a game, such as encountering challenges, overcoming them, and progressing. The video argues that what truly defines the 'Souls-like' experience is this loop of challenge, death, and retrying with accumulated knowledge, rather than specific mechanics like an Estus Flask or stamina bar.

💡Genre

A genre in gaming refers to a category of games that share similar gameplay mechanics, themes, or styles. The video discusses the evolution and misunderstanding of genres, particularly the 'Souls-like' genre, and how the language used to describe them should evolve to reflect the diversity of games they encompass.

Highlights

Dark Souls is recognized as the ultimate game of all time, influencing the gaming landscape with its intricate design and combat.

The game's notorious difficulty has set a standard for challenging games, with many later games paying homage to Dark Souls.

The concept of game difficulty is attributed to Hidetaka Miyazaki's creation of Demon's Souls in 2009.

Game developers have adopted elements from Dark Souls, such as bonfires, stamina bars, and estus flasks, in their own games.

Naming crisis in the gaming industry has led to the label 'souls-like' for games with similarities to Dark Souls.

The term 'souls-like' has been criticized for stifling creativity and suggesting games should adhere closely to the original.

Roguelike games, named after the game Rogue, have evolved to include a variety of games with different mechanics.

The term 'rogue-lite' emerged to describe games that are similar to roguelikes but with significant differences.

Categorizing games based on their derivation from a specific title can lead to a loss of meaning in genre labels.

All games are derivative to some extent, borrowing from their predecessors, as seen in the evolution of the 'Metroidvania' genre.

The term 'Metroidvania' originated from the combination of Metroid and Castlevania, describing games with interconnected worlds and abilities.

Games like Hollow Knight, inspired by Metroid, created a unique experience without strictly adhering to the 'Metroidvania' formula.

Developers should focus on creating engaging gameplay rather than conforming to established genre mechanics.

The game 'Grease' was redesigned to be more accessible, incorporating elements of the Metroidvania genre in a linear fashion.

The core of a genre lies in a few unchangeable factors that capture the essence of the group of games it represents.

Mark Brown's video on the 'Soulsborne' genre suggests that its defining elements are the slow, deliberate combat and core gameplay loop.

The 'Soulsborne' genre should be based on the cycle of encountering challenges, learning from failure, and persistently overcoming obstacles.

The video calls for a renaming of the genre to reflect the evolution of games beyond 'souls-like' and to encourage linguistic evolution.

Transcripts

[Music]

from software's dark souls needs no

introduction recently crowned the

ultimate game of all time the series is

praised for its intricate level design

satisfying combat and captivating world

but you're probably most familiar with

dark souls for its notorious difficulty

[Music]

look look

in fact these games are so hard that

every single challenging game that came

after is actually paying homage to dark

souls

the first hard game

see we all know that the very concept of

difficulty didn't exist before hidetaka

miyazaki invented it in 2009 with the

release of demon souls before that video

games were all just brain dead easy i

mean look at this the games that they

basically play themselves

but then

in comes demon souls

[Music]

then two years later miyazaki shits out

another hood classic and game developers

went

wild bonfires stamina bars blood stains

estus flasks if it was featured in dark

souls then it would also be featured in

the next 100 games that you played but

we needed a name a name for these games

these these copycats that were like

souls

souls likes

medieval fantasy settings souls like

invincibility frame souls-like

difficulty

like constipation souls like wife

cheated on you soul's like wait wait

wait wait wait what's that

you live in an abusive household

souls like parenting now of course i'm

being facetious but there really seems

to be a bit of a naming crisis

surrounding games that share even the

slightest bit in common with dark souls

there's just this obsession with

labeling everything that's even remotely

similar as being derivative even among

from software's other ips they just

can't escape those same shackles i mean

first it was just demon souls and then

it was the souls games after that it was

souls born and after that it's

soul's born key

so you you wrote this this is a thing

that you wrote look it's undeniable that

dark souls is one of the most

influential games of our time the

current gaming landscape would look

incredibly different without it and

several games genuinely are just carbon

copies but a handful of problems arise

when taking one major title and turning

it into an entire genre take

roguelike a genre named after the 1980

dungeon crawler rogue unlike dark souls

however rogue didn't spawn an entire

series and was released over 40 years

ago so today it's not surprising when

rogue isn't the first game that comes to

mind when you hear the word roguelike

that game could be faster than light

slay the spire or for some people even

hades

for me the game that i think of when i

hear roguelike is binding of isaac

so i've just been kindly informed that

binding of isaac is in fact not a rogue

like

but a rogue light initially called

roguelike likes roguelites are

rogue-likes that are like rogue but not

as like rogue as roguelikes when you're

categorizing a game based on what it

derives from is derived from the label

starts to lose all meaning

rogue light is a genre born from games

being too different from the original

title to be called roguelikes so why

even keep rogue in the name this kind of

naming convention stifles creativity by

suggesting the game should stick as

close to the original as possible and

for every box on the checklist that a

game doesn't tick

we'll just add another like at the end

of the category all games are derivative

to some extent there's no modern game

that doesn't borrow anything from its

predecessors even dark souls

from software didn't invent the stamina

bar or parrying and corpse running has

been a staple of mmos long before dark

souls was even a concept swimming around

in miyazaki's nut sack art inspires and

genres overlap it's the same with any

medium of entertainment while there are

definitely landmark films none of them

have had their titles baked into their

respective genres that's not to say that

they've never been copied but after the

wave of clones came innovation imagine

if every movie with a ton of gore in a

crash zoom was called a tarantino-like

or look at hip-hop i mean half of all

rappers would be called tupac likes it's

exactly this phenomenon of derivative

content mixing and borrowing from

previous media that leads to imaginative

ideas metroidvania is a portmanteau of

metroid and castlevania and is used to

describe games that borrow from both

series

or so the wikipedia definition says in

actuality it's used to refer to any game

with a sprawling world that has certain

areas gated behind abilities upgrades

and items like super metroid the term

came into use after the release of

castlevania symphony of the night which

featured a lot of these

metroid-like elements similarly the game

devs behind the quote unquote souls like

metroidvania hollow knight had little to

no experience with dark souls before

making the game and although they were

inspired by metroid creating a

metroidvania wasn't something that they

set out to do

their inspiration came from various

different games but instead of trying to

emulate anyone in particular they

focused on trying to make a good ass

game and spoiler alert

they made a good ass game when

developers stick firmly to a blueprint

they're designing backwards creating a

game that conforms to established game

mechanics rather than designing elements

that'll best complement their game

grease is a game that was originally

intended to be a metroidvania but the

creators wanted it to be accessible to

people even if they've never played a

video game so they opted for a more

linear approach linear is the antithesis

of a metroidvania the devs would have to

reimagine the formula in order to

realize the vision they had for their

game and they did a damn good job

[Music]

greece has five levels representing each

stage of grief you progress linearly

through them acquiring a new ability in

each one the game features no combat and

little exploration the abilities are

largely used for platforming and puzzle

challenges each level is designed around

just the abilities that you have at the

time so there's no backtracking with

progression to each new level you

restore color to a beautiful watercolor

painted world until you're at the last

stage and finally overcome your grief

grease borrows metroidvania elements and

uses them to tell a powerful story

through little more than its gameplay

rather than force unnecessary mechanics

to fill a checklist grease takes only

what it needs from the genre and still

manages to capture the essence of having

a protagonist that evolves over time and

grows to interact with the world in

different ways and that is what's at the

core of any genre just a few

unchangeable factors that really capture

the heart of what unifies those group of

games

so

what's the soul of dark souls

mark brown of game makers toolkit made

an excellent video in 2017 on the topic

he suggests that the genre should be

based around the elements that give dark

souls it's slow deliberate combat but

even from software's other ips don't

entirely adhere to those elements

bloodborne has faster more aggressive

combat and this is even more true after

sekiro's release in 2019 which got rid

of the stamina bar entirely i would

argue that the element that ties these

games together is not their combat but

their core gameplay loop the cycle of

encountering a challenging obstacle

dying and throwing yourself at it again

and again armed with nothing more than

your knowledge of previous attempts no

estus flask stamina bar or dodge roll

necessary that core gameplay is what

makes these games so engaging and really

makes you feel like you have the

exaggerated swagger of a medieval

fantasy protagonist of course we'd also

have to rename the genre and ditch the

whole trend of just adding like at the

end of a title games have already

evolved past just being soul's likes and

it's time that the language we use to

refer to them does the same

[Music]

if you made it to the end of the video

uh thank you for listening to me talk my

this is just a topic that really

really grinds my gears really rustles my

jimmies if you will so i just figured

make a video about it

but uh yeah tell me what you guys think

if you like the video like the video uh

it helps the video get seen if you

dislike the video then

leave a comment because that also helps

to get seen

uh send this to that one friend who shut

the hell up about dark souls and

subscribe to see more videos like this

i'm just starting out but i have a ton

of ideas lined up for future videos not

just on games but like movies animation

like that and that uh the new souls born

eki roden ring game is dropping next

week so i might do a video on that

so i definitely stick around and i'll

see you in the next one

[Music]

you