Mythic Games....And That Anastyr & Hel Update
Summary
TLDRIn this video, Alex Rad from Board Gameco addresses the controversy surrounding Mythic Games and their financial troubles, which led to Command Games taking over the production of 'Hell' and 'Anister'. Alex provides an in-depth analysis without insider information, apologizes for past endorsements, and discusses the implications for backers. He also defends Command Games' actions, expressing confusion at the backlash they've received for stepping in to salvage the projects.
Takeaways
- 📢 Alex Rad from Board Gameco discusses the situation with Mythic Games and their transition to Command Games, emphasizing he has no insider information.
- 🚫 Alex Rad apologizes for previously recommending Mythic Games' products and acknowledges the frustration of backers who may have lost money.
- 🛑 The video outlines the handover of Mythic Games' 'Hell' and 'Anister' to Command Games, which will involve substantial reworks and are not in a deliverable state.
- 🎲 Backers of 'Hell' and 'Anister' will receive a 'free gift' of a base game version, but details on the extent of changes or additional costs like shipping are unclear.
- 💸 There is a sense of financial loss and unfairness among backers who spent more on higher tiers or all-in pledges, receiving the same base game as those who backed less.
- 🔄 The change in game development hands has left many backers feeling uncertain about the final product and its comparison to what was originally promised.
- 🤝 Alex Rad believes Command Games has not done anything wrong in this situation and is stepping in to salvage a failing project, providing something where there could be nothing.
- 🚫 Some backers are upset about having to pay for shipping and VAT on the 'free gift' and the potential changes to the games, viewing this as a negative outcome.
- 🤔 There is speculation about whether Command Games paid Mythic Games for the IPs and what the actual state of completion of the games was before the handover.
- 📉 The situation has led to a broader discussion about the risks of crowdfunding and the impact on consumer trust in backing board game projects.
- 👍 Alex Rad commends Command Games for their attempt to provide a resolution and questions why they are receiving backlash for trying to help in a difficult situation.
Q & A
What is the main topic of discussion in the video?
-The main topic of discussion is the situation surrounding Mythic Games and the takeover of their games 'Hell' and 'Anister' by Command Games.
What is the context of the video in terms of timing?
-The video is discussing events that have recently unfolded, with the video being filmed on a Saturday night, and the situation involving Mythic Games and Command Games having developed shortly before that.
What is the role of Alex from Board Gameco in this video?
-Alex is providing an analysis and personal perspective on the situation involving Mythic Games and Command Games, without any insider information, and discussing the implications for backers of the affected games.
Why does Alex feel the need to apologize in the video?
-Alex feels the need to apologize because, in the past, he has recommended Mythic Games' products and campaigns to his audience, which some may have backed based on his recommendations, leading to potential financial loss for those backers due to the current situation.
What is the general sentiment of the community regarding the situation?
-The community sentiment is mixed, with some people being relieved that Command Games is taking over the projects, while others are upset about the changes and the potential loss of their investments in the original campaigns.
What is the current status of the games 'Hell' and 'Anister'?
-The games 'Hell' and 'Anister' are being taken over by Command Games, and they will not be completed in their current form. Substantial work is required, and the games will undergo a rehaul.
What does Command Games plan to offer to the backers of 'Hell' and 'Anister'?
-Command Games plans to offer a base game of 'Hell' and 'Anister' to the backers as a free gift, without additional costs for the game itself, although backers may still have to cover shipping and VAT.
What is the potential issue with the term 'free gift' used by Command Games?
-The term 'free gift' may be seen as insensitive or misleading by backers who have already paid for more than just a base game, and it might be used by Command Games to protect themselves legally from obligations.
How does Alex view the actions of Command Games in this situation?
-Alex views Command Games' actions as positive or neutral, as they are stepping in to rescue projects that would otherwise fail, and he does not believe they have done anything wrong in this situation.
What advice does Alex give to those who are frustrated with the situation?
-Alex advises people to understand the complexity of the situation, to question their frustrations, and to consider whether their anger should be directed at Command Games or the original company, Mythic Games.
Outlines
📣 Introduction to Mythic Games' Situation
In this introductory paragraph, Alex Rad from Board Game Co. addresses the audience about the recent developments concerning Mythic Games. He mentions that while he usually covers news on Wednesdays or Thursdays, this topic is significant enough to warrant an immediate discussion. Alex clarifies that he has no insider information and has not received any comments from Command Games in time for the video. He also apologizes for previously endorsing Mythic Games' products and acknowledges the complexity of the situation, expressing regret for any role he may have played in encouraging purchases or backings of their games.
🚨 The Impact of Mythic Games' Crowdfunding Issues
This paragraph delves into the history of Mythic Games' crowdfunding endeavors and the problems that arose, particularly with the 'Darkest Dungeon' campaign. Alex explains the common fear among backers that companies might use funds from one campaign to finance the next, leading to potential insolvency. He discusses how this fear materialized with Mythic Games, causing backers to pay more for shipping and other costs. Alex also touches on his past relationship with the Mythic Games team and the ethical dilemmas faced by individuals working within companies that make unpopular decisions.
🔄 Transition of Hell and Aner to Command Games
Alex discusses the recent announcement that Command Games is taking over the development of 'Hell' and 'Aner', two games previously managed by Mythic Games. He explains that these games will undergo significant changes and will not be delivered in their original form. For backers who have supported these games, Command Games is offering a base pledge of the new versions of the games as a 'free gift', which has been a point of contention among the community. Alex emphasizes that while this is good news for some, it also brings up concerns about the value of the original pledges and the changes to the games.
🎲 Dissecting the Good and Bad News for Backers
In this paragraph, Alex explores the mixed reactions from the community regarding the transition of 'Hell' and 'Aner' to Command Games. He highlights the positive aspect that backers will receive a game, despite the changes, and contrasts this with the frustration of those who backed at higher levels and are now receiving the same base game as those who backed at lower levels. Alex also addresses the potential changes to the games themselves, which may be seen as a positive or negative depending on individual preferences.
🤔 Addressing Community Concerns and the 'Free Gift' Controversy
Alex addresses specific concerns raised by the community, focusing on the use of the term 'free gift' by Command Games. He speculates that this terminology is likely a legal strategy to clarify that Command Games is not under any obligation to provide the games, but is doing so voluntarily. He also discusses the potential costs for backers, such as shipping and VAT, and the complexities of the situation from a business perspective.
🛑 The Reality of Mythic Games' Situation and Alex's Personal Stance
In this paragraph, Alex reflects on the reality of the situation with Mythic Games and expresses his personal stance. He apologizes for any role he may have played in the financial loss of backers and discusses the difficulty of the situation. Alex also defends Command Games' actions, stating that they are stepping in to provide something for backers who might otherwise receive nothing. He encourages viewers to question their frustrations and consider the complexities of the situation.
🔍 A Closer Look at Command Games' Involvement
Alex scrutinizes Command Games' involvement in the Mythic Games situation, suggesting that they may have expected some backlash but decided to step in regardless. He emphasizes that Command Games is not responsible for the initial issues and is attempting to provide a positive outcome for backers. Alex also addresses the pronunciation of 'CMON' and the community's reaction to their involvement, reiterating his support for their actions.
📉 The Fallout of Mythic Games'众筹Campaigns and the Future of Crowdfunding
In the final paragraph, Alex contemplates the broader implications of Mythic Games' crowdfunding failures and the potential impact on the crowdfunding landscape. He acknowledges the disappointment and loss experienced by dedicated backers and the possibility that some may withdraw from crowdfunding altogether. Alex also discusses his own approach to crowdfunding and the importance of being mindful of the risks involved.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Mythic Games
💡Crowdfunding
💡Backers
💡Command Games
💡Free Gift
💡Shipping and VAT
💡Legal Obligation
💡Campaigns
💡Board Game Community
💡Content Creator
💡Drama
Highlights
Alex Rad from Board Gameco discusses the situation with Mythic Games and their transition to Command Games, including the lack of insider information.
Mythic Games' crowdfunding history and the issues that arose, particularly with the Darkest Dungeon campaign.
The announcement that Hell and Aner are being taken over by Command Games and the mixed reactions from the community.
Alex's personal apology for recommending Mythic Games' products in the past and the complexities of evaluating company decisions.
The difference between base game and core pledge in crowdfunding campaigns and the implications for backers.
The potential legal implications of Command Games referring to the base game offer as a 'free gift'.
The financial losses backers may face and the frustration of not receiving the value they paid for.
Alex's perspective on Command Games' role in the situation and his confusion about the backlash they are receiving.
The possibility that Command Games may not have paid Mythic Games for the IPs they are taking over.
The discussion around shipping and VAT costs that backers may have to cover for their pledges.
The discrepancy between what Mythic Games claimed was completed and Command Games' assessment of the projects' status.
Alex's personal stance on the situation, defending Command Games' actions and expressing confusion at the negative reactions.
The broader implications for the crowdfunding model and how this situation might affect future backing decisions.
Alex's advice for backers who are considering legal action against Mythic Games to recover their funds.
The emotional impact of the situation on Alex and his reflections on the nature of creating content around negative events.
A teaser for an upcoming video where Alex will rant about crowdfunding and marketing tactics, providing a look into future content.
Transcripts
hey I'm Alex rad from board Gameco and
today we're talking about Mythic games
again Mythic games again which is not
part of my uh news and weekend review
that I just had go up yesterday which is
regular reminder by the way those things
are usually filmed like Wednesday or
Thursday which means anything that
happens from Wednesday to Friday
effectively or even Saturday when it
doesn't make their way into the the news
bit um there's a reason for that but
let's go ahead and have a conversation
around Mythic games around Kanan around
the whole picking up of hell and ner
we're going to have a bunch of things to
get into and I will timestamp everything
but let's start off with the very first
thing and I I I'm going to try to go
like you know high level detail of
what's Happening some background
information and then fully breaking down
all aspects of it but I want to cover
two things just off the bat so you I
guess know what to expect from this
video the first is that I don't have any
Insider information at all uh I reached
out to command for comment on this but
uh didn't hear back in terms of like in
time for the video which makes sense I
only I didn't have a lot of time so I
don't know if they will get back or
won't but uh this is being filmed well
Saturday night it's being filmed
Saturday night so there's not a lot of
time between things going on here but
yeah I don't have any real Insider
information I know what you do I do have
some I guess general knowledge of the
industry or things so there might be
some information but this is more
armchair analysis and whatever degree of
entertainment you get from the video the
second thing that I want to get into
before we start from the high level is
just the just the the apology part I
mean I'm not ignorant to the fact that
over the years I've sat there and talked
about Mythic games games and I've been
on there you know i' I've done to back
or not to backs I've done should you
back in other videos I've told you their
games will hold their value I've
reviewed their products and shown you
them and been like hey this is a great
game here I have absolutely 100%
incentivized many of you to buy or back
some of their games and for that I
apologize in general it's one of those
tricky things where the trickiest thing
for me is always and I've talked about
this before in other videos this is not
new but the trickiest thing for me is
the understanding of what can I even do
differently because that's the question
meaning I feel bad there's no question
about feeling bad but then the next step
is okay great well what about the next
company the next time how can I operate
differently in some way and the short
answer is I don't know how I can and
there are many companies out there that
have multiple back-to-back campaigns and
that in of itself isn't a flag for a
large company just folding under the
weight of all their outstanding
kickstarters or Crow fending campaign
so it's a hard situation because one day
in the future it may well be possible
that I once again you'll be looking at
some of my videos and saying hey by the
way that's another company that you you
know recommended that game you like that
game you said I'll hold its
value I'm not a prophet which is not an
excuse by the way I'm not a prophet
that's true but it's not an excuse it's
it's more of a if there are ways that I
could be mindful of that of how to do
things differently to prevent that I
would I'm not going to just stop
covering things out of hand because that
doesn't make sense unfortunately the
nature of the market is you know any
Market anything is it's hard I feel bad
I ultimately I feel bad so if if if you
Harbor any resentment towards myself in
any way shape or form for for ever
having uh incentivized you to back one
of their campaigns I get it I I'm sorry
and I will always try to do the best I
can with my content but I won't always
be able to uh predict the future in any
case from there let's go ahead and start
this off let's go to the high level just
in case those of you who don't know
what's going on the very short analysis
of just everything is that you know
Mythic games basically hell and aner are
being handed over to command games so if
you're a backer of Hell or aner both
those games are being taken over by
comman with a whole lot of details to
follow that's the very very short I
probably should have started the video
just off hand with that that's the big
news currently uh there's a lot more to
get into that has a lot of people very
relieved and a lot of people incredibly
upset and trust me I'll get into my own
opinions further down at the very end
we'll go into my own thoughts on the
whole situation but first I want to get
you caught up on all the things to
consider from The Good the Bad the
changes the different all the knowledge
you need to know but some further
background to those who are walking into
this video without knowing anything
going on is mytha games is a
crowdfunding was was Mythic games was a
crowdfunding company that primarily
operated on crowdfunding they had their
own retail shop and sales and all those
things and they were very successful for
a very long time having multiple
campaigns that were frequently doing
well or well enough seemingly and they
were you know running and delivering
campaigns they always had they always
got flank from many people including
myself um the nature of how much a rder
their game often required or you know
issues with rules or post proofing and
all that but for better for wors I
generally liked their games I didn't
necessarily love all them but I've I've
really enjoyed some I've enjoyed others
more than others i' I've enjoyed their
games as a company uh and I've been a
fan of their like their prototypes in
general I mean with six Siege which has
been finally delivering right now one of
the best games ever fantastic experience
I love super fantasy Brawl for quite
some time I mean I have to go through
their catalog of games of what they've
had and what I even still care or not
steam watches was never as much for me
monster apocalypse I was kind of mixed
on that's another one we're going to
we're going to to get all that but they
I overall enjoyed their catalog of games
some worked for me some didn't they had
issues with proof reading and a and all
that but ultimately they were running on
crowdfunding for a very long time and
then things kind of folded maybe a year
and a half ago two years whatever it was
at this point year I think a year and a
half ago darkest dungeon was kind of the
point where they're like um things are
going to be messy and here's the
situation and the situation effectively
was it basically seemed like they were
doing what many people have always been
afraid of in any crowdfunding state
especially when you have companies who
run many campaigns there's always that
fear of are you using one campaign to F
fund the next and if that's true then at
what point will somebody be left holding
the bag and while that generally a fear
that has not come true for most
companies that are running these
back-to-back crowdfunding campaigns for
some it did come true for Peterson games
it did come true for Mythic games it did
come true there have been other failures
as well but there is a difference in
terms of the level of how many campaigns
versus failures there are companies that
have folded and shut down there are many
companies that have had issues in one
way or another but Mythic Gams was
definitely a company that seemed like
they were using campaigns to fund the
next one and to keep the problem down
the road and in the case of uh darkest
dungeon that problem was unfortunately
happened backers are asked to pay a lot
more money to get their games a lot more
money to pay for shipping and that is a
trend that continuous succeeds and this
is something that Mythic games
themselves kind of addressed as saying
like Hey we're going to handle each
campaign one at a time which as everyone
as most people assumed myself included
that does mean that uh you're going to
be asked to pay for things we just don't
want to tell you now because we don't
want we don't want that to uh blow up in
our faces and again full transparency
I've I have had in the past a friendly
relationship with the Mythic Games Team
many of those people on the team left
Mythic games while this is starting to
blow up I cannot speak for any
individual's knowledge of what's going
on behind the scenes and even if someone
knew to some degree something I don't
know if I'd for gudge them that much if
you ever been in any job and You' ever
had to make any form of ethically
compromised decision because somebody
else is making decisions you didn't like
I've been there I've been there I won't
speak for anyone else I have been there
in jobs where I wasn't the one calling
the shots and I didn't like the way the
shots were being called but like am I
going to quit and and some of you might
be like yes absolutely but I I don't
think there was ever I assume there's a
big difference between knowing that
fraud was happening versus disagreeing
with decisions but hoping and thinking
it would still work out which I guess my
own personal two cense there this is
briding into my own thoughts is I don't
resent people who work for me at the
games I even the people at the top I
think I'd still you know if I saw them
I'd still I don't know it's complicated
it's complicated I haven't spoken to
like Leo in Leo is like you know one of
the person people who run runs it I
haven't spoken to him in a long time
since this first blew up with uh with
darkest dungeon I haven't spoken to him
and it's one of those complicated things
because as a person I've always liked
Leo and I still think I would like him
as a person but then there's that
complicated aspect of you don't want to
be rubbing shoulders and being friendly
to someone who frankly whether intended
or not did go through this degree but
again these situations are complicated
and it's messy everything's
messy anyways so everything blew up with
darkest dungeon things continue to blow
up with six Siege asking people to
continue to pay money I put out videos
on the subject I put out the videos in
darkest dungeon in the shipping pricing
I put out videos in six seas in the
shipping pricing and I've basically
recommended only throw money at the
situation if you're okay with possibly
losing even that money although it does
seem people are getting their copies of
six Siege so at least there is that
silver lining but then there's always
the question what about hell what about
aner what about monster apocalypse there
other IPS were sold off to various
companies I believe monolith and Kon
picked up most of various IPS and there
are three IPS left that I'm aware of
again Mythic uh hell and and mon
apocalypse they might have others I
think they still have darkest dungeon
control for whatever it's going to do
for them I don't know and that brings us
to the current situation the current
situation is that on was it Friday
Thursday recently way too recently they
basically put out an update saying hey
hell and anister are being taken over by
another publisher and then 10 minutes
later there's another update from
command games on the Hellen anister
campaigns an update from command with
permission from mytha games basically
going over the details of what's
happening and what is it that's
happening well effectively hell and
anister are not able to be completed in
their current form hell is a giant
narrative campaign anister or supposedly
giant narrative campaign a one that was
supposedly almost finished we'll get to
that later aner is more of a
sidescrolling more of a zombicide type
game but with more of a sidescrolling
aspect to it so an interesting twist and
I haven't played hell so I can't speak
to that one at all I have played anister
and I did enjoy that one I think I do
enjoy zombicide more but I am cursed see
anister goes still cous anister goes but
both those games are not able to be
finished or delivered in their current
state have a lot of work have to be done
and comman is taking over on those
campaigns what does do this mean for you
as a backer well so comman didn't really
say at least if they did I didn't see it
but they didn't say whether they'll be
doing crowdfunding or not I assume they
will bring those games to crowdfunding
with a new campaign and they basically
said if you are a backer of these games
then you are going to be getting a free
gift of a uh base pledge of those games
but that's it just a base pledge the
games will be reworked they will not be
the same things you've seen they will
have the same general idea of what this
what of what those games are but there
are going to be differences to them
whether those differences are you know
different expansions less expansions
more expansions change expansions change
base games they weren't clear as far as
what bre or scope the changes would
consist of but whatever those games are
they are ceasing to exist in their
current form and they are going to go
through some degree of rehaul and
finishing and command has determined
that they cannot be delivered in their
current format they will require
substantial work and they're taking care
taking control of those games and again
if you are a backer of those games to be
clear not a dollar backer but if you've
at least backed a core pledge you will
get a base game of each of those in the
terminology they used was base game they
didn't say core pledge and those things
are different because I mean Comm on
generally I again I don't know command's
plans are I don't know if they're going
to be being those games to retail I
don't they'll be be to crowdfunding
there is a difference between a base
game and a core pledge and an Allin
those are very different situations and
none of those things are very clear as
of right now but as a backer you are
going to be getting a free gift not a
settlement not a something you're owed a
free gift of those games we will come
back to that language later for right
now I'm just trying to bring you up to
speed if you don't know everything
that's going on that's kind of the
general situation you know substantial
rehaul command's taking over you get a
free base game of those games and that's
it that doesn't mean doesn't matter
whether you back the game at you know
the hund and I don't remember the prices
different campaigns but let's say it was
$129 whatever it was the base pledge of
$12 versus whether you spent you know
$700 between the Allin and multiple
pledges and well to be fair if you did
back multiple pledges each pledge will
will entitle you to a base game but
there are people who spent hundreds and
hundreds of dollars and even though I
might have spent only
149 or whatever and by the way it's
worth noting I am a backer on these
campaigns but if you spend even if you
just back to core pledge or whatever it
is uh you get the same net result which
obviously is going to be frustrating so
that's kind of the situation to catch up
to speed which means there's good news
there's bad news there's complaints
concerns my own personal thoughts now
let's go into all of that so the good
news and the bad news start with the
good news the good news is you're
getting a game if you back the game
you're getting the game now depending on
who you are if you go through the
comments in these campaigns the comments
are an absolute mad house of people
being incredibly upset and rightfully so
by the way rightfully so of being upset
although we'll get to the at who part
later but there are people who are
incredibly upset but the first base of
good news is there are other people
filing in in every fourth comment
there's somebody else who's like this is
good news this is more than I expected
because frankly I'm in that camp I
expected that the options for some of
these campaigns were either you're
getting nothing at all or you're going
to have to go through the process of
trying to decide how much money to spend
on any number of different waves of
shipping costs and crisises wondering if
you'll ever see that money speaking for
myself and not for you this is not this
is speaking for myself I'd rather kind
of know what my losses are then have to
decide how much more to contribute to
some ridiculous shipping price that I
don't even know if I'll see the game
again the six Siege backers are seeing
their game so there is that but I don't
know if I'd be confident I don't know
the nature of if you were using
campaigns to fund itself then at some
point the money runs out and you need
more and more and possibly need the
entire thing rebot possibly at more
because the whole thing was mismanaged
so
the good news as a baseline is you're
getting something and you know what
you're getting and come on For Better or
For Worse love them or hate them whether
you hate their games whether you hate
their management whether you hate their
Community whether you hate their
shipping prices they haven't ever
actually done something that changes
what you're being asked to pay so love
it or hate it you're currently on track
to getting something that's the first
piece of good news you won't have to
wonder how many Ransom payments you're
going to have to make you won't have to
wonder whether those payments are ever
going to result in a game this is again
just full transparency this is not me
calling the future I can't speak for it
this is the first time that command's
going to do something that results in it
falling through but I have no reason to
believe that this is the first time this
is going to happen I think that if
you're Comm on games and if you're
jumping into this this is the last
campaign you want to go ahead and drop
the ball on after somebody else has
already had an issue I think kanan's
only going to engage in something like
this if they are confident in the
results because this is the worst
possible like just's think about it from
the perspective of Kanan if you have a
choice because you have whatever issues
are you have as a company your options
might be you know do you go to some
existing campaign cign you have and ask
for $20 more per backer for cover
shipping cost or do you take on a
totally new IP and then fail that one
because I guarantee you one of those
things is a better look than the other
and so I have to imagine that Kanan is
is going to deliver on this I have to
imagine it's not a prediction it's not a
guarantee it's just I would not be
confident in any money I paid to Mythic
games I would be confident in any money
I paid to Kanan it's only speaking to my
own confidence level Comm on For Better
or For Worse there's more good news
because command for Better or For Worse
have never had this level of issues with
Arata and problems and complaints that
Mythic games has had Mythic games
generally does produce good games or
they have in the past but their games
have been rought with issues and
command's generally not as much now make
no mistake common does have their common
does have complaints that people who
don't like them for sure but in general
their games don't have that level of
Arata they might have some lack of
clearity in a rule book here and there
but nowhere near to the extent that
Mythic tends to have their games tend to
be a bit more polished speaking for
myself while I do like Comm Mythic games
games I like command games games more
and so the idea that they're taking
control and polishing things up up and
changing things for me I'm on board with
that I think the people who would
complain the most against that are
people who don't like command's type of
games and frankly if you're a Mythic
games backer there's pretty high overlap
between that genre of game so there's a
lot of good news out of this update to
begin with although the news is less
good if you thought everything was going
to work out in your favor which I had no
expectation of that at this point itn't
it's not an excuse it's not okay but at
this point i' I'd given
up the bad news because there is bad
news a lot of your money is going down
the drain whether you're okay with it or
not this might be the confirmation the
thing you were not looking for that a
lot of your money is going away and the
more so the higher you backed if you are
an all-in backer if you like to get
everything you're losing more and that's
frustrating it it's frustrating to sit
there and say oh by the way you know I
paid $149 and I'm only getting a base
game that might be worth like 70 or 80
and by the way you will be asked to
cover additional cost such as that or
shipping on that will come back that
soon as well but that is it it's
frustrating but at least it's it's more
manageable versus if you spent $400 on
the Allin of anister whatever the all-
in actually was I don't know the exact
pricing but if you went Allin on all the
expansions and everything shiny that
they showed and now you're getting like
a $100 base game an $80 base game that's
much more frustrating and whatever sense
of unfairness that's present it's
further further feeling of unfairness
that you're getting hit harder than your
neighbor the idea that it's all ratioed
out and all makes sense there is
something not necessarily comforting but
at least there's a sense of like okay
great it it sucks for everyone but I
don't think anyone wishes that I don't
think there's anyone watching this video
who backed the games who wishes that
someone else were getting less but even
though you don't wish that there is a
sense of unfairness a sense of I paid
more to support more and wanted more and
I get the same as them like I should get
it should be ratioed in some way shap
per and I understand that there are
probably a dozen reasons why command's
not doing that most of them probably
just practical the nature of cost nature
of the situation I don't think this is
ever going to be a positive situation
and it's incredibly frustrating for you
no matter what and the game's also
changing another piece of potentially
bad news as the games are changing in
some way which again for me I think
that's actually good news I assume
whatever command does to the game is
going to make it better not worse my own
track record of which company I like
neither company do I keep all their
games and both the companies have
overlap in how they feel in terms of the
general amount of just you know
narrative and beat things up and all the
there's overlap but I mean for me it's
it's it's a my assumption is I like the
game more with whatever changes there
are or at least the end product will be
better but if you're someone who wanted
certain expansions or really like Mythic
games more than command or whatever it
is you might be in the camp where this
is bad news to see the potential changes
so there absolutely is bad news here
there's no question as far as some
complaints and concerns some things I
want to talk about because I've seen a
lot of a lot of focus a lot of people
harping on certain key things again and
again and again and you may not like
what I have to say about this but I just
want to give as much clarity as possible
much as much arm share analysis as POS
as possible the first is the nature of
the free gift the amount of people who
are upset about comman but the idea of
like how dare you call this a free gift
how you dare you say this is like free
and a gift and how dare you use those
words it's not free we're paying for it
we we paid through the nose for it I
hope you understand that nowhere and
again I don't know this I I have not
spoken to anything on it from K on I do
not know this but like this is just to
me this is just easily assumed and I
don't mean that I don't mean that to
minimize whatever the fact that you may
not have assumed it but I just mean I
guess I've been around long enough that
to me it just makes sense I assume
100% that command is using the
terminology free gift in their update to
clarify any sense of legal obligation
that might otherwise be present meaning
I assume that is legal Le to effectively
c ya cover their ass cover your ass
effectively that that if they didn't do
that they might be on the hook for some
sort of legal obligation for a
settlement or a problem meaning I don't
I I don't think anyone at come on is
using the terms free gift to piss you
off I don't think they're trying to like
you know be like haha you should be
happy with with what you're getting I
don't think that's ever the terminology
or intent behind it I think they are
using terminology and language that from
a legal standpoint protext them while
they sit here and take over an otherwise
failing project an otherwise failing IP
and while they go ahead and give you a
game which they do not have to by the
way there's a whole issue as far as who
owes you what there is there should be
anger and frustration here but that
should be directed at Mythic games not
come on and when comman comes in and
does give you that free game I don't
think they're trying to say you should
be grateful for this and leave us alone
I think they understand your frustration
they're probably not thrilled if you're
if you're come on right now and you're
reading through the updates and the
comments the amount of people who are
upset at you for rescuing this
project I don't I
don't there's times there's times in
life like I'm not saying common is doing
your a favor I'm not saying that Kanon
is sitting there well we'll get to my
opinion let's let's forget that we'll
come back to the common part soon
because I I have things to say about
that but the general idea of the free
gift aspect that is almost certainly a
legal language being utilized to ensure
that they're not on the hook otherwise
that is almost certainly what's
happening is not intended to minimize
it's not intended to say that you should
be grateful you're getting that it's not
intended to say you don't deserve
anything it is intended to cover their
is intended to cover themselves that's
what it is uh it's not meant to be
upsetting you that's i h again I don't
know this I'm not I haven't spoken to
them I'm not a lawyer but it just why
else would you do that why else would
you use that language which is
unnecessarily aggravating unless it's
because it protects you legally from
potentially being otherwise on the hook
it's the the natural there are times in
life where unfortunately you just can't
admit fault do you know Canada fun
trivia fact on the side here Canada
actually has a law that protects your
ability to apologize cuz that's so
Canadian but genuinely meaning if you
get into a car accident with somebody
and you say I'm sorry that could be that
could be taken as an admission of fault
and Canada because they're Canadian and
they wanted to ensure that people can
apologize they've actually legally put
in place that you can apologize to
something like a car accident and it's
not taken as an admission of fault there
are some stupid Hoops we have to jump
through because of the world we live in
and come on having to say this is a free
gift is almost certainly them being able
to give you the game without them being
on the hook legally and being sucked
into this maybe they otherwise end up
themselves as plaintiffs aome I'm
getting a tiny little Interruption here
so you might have to give a second hey
buddy what's going
on careful careful what's going on
what's
up everything okay
yeah I'll be right back um my tie raade
about the situation we'll uh continue in
a few
minutes
anyways back to the rants not rants
conversation so yeah so that's the whole
thing with free gifts effectively
effectively which means the second thing
shipping and vat again some armchair
assumptions over here but I don't know
the terms of any deal that went on
behind behind closed doors with uh come
on and Mythic no one else was in the
room where it happened the room where it
happened the room where you all found
out that you're not really getting the
things you paid for at least not the way
you did anyways um yeah so I don't know
the full extent of what went on in the
conversation I literally don't know if
Kanan paid Mythic aent for this I have
no idea because a lot of people are like
expressing their concern like well if
Kanan paid Mythic for this give us that
money Mythic give us the money which
honestly I get I do I good luck with
that but I I get that but there are some
people who have said what I feel which
is the idea that maybe that command paid
nothing for it and this is an
opportunity to pick it up maybe the
thing that command paid is the fact that
they're going to hon some degree of
commitment to previous backers which
whether you like it or not and whether
you're frustrated by how little you're
getting compared to what you paid for if
there's nothing else there you can't
squeeze blood from a stone I don't I
assume that Mythic is not paying Kon to
take this over which means Common's
taking over an IP that has an existing
obligation attached to it this is not
new in the crowdfunding space
unfortunately we've had failures before
we've had companies step in and very
often they offer something but they
can't offer anything and Comm is
offering a base pledge not the all in
you paid for and not necessarily even a
core pledge because that's a different
thing a base game not a base pledge uh
and so that's one and then also you have
to pay shipping and vat and again armch
analysis over here but I think a big
part of that is the nature of the cost
and expenditures the Practical reality
is the cost for command to produce let's
pretend it even is a core pledge let's
pretend it's a full core pledge whatever
it is that's actually that's not I don't
want that expectations let's say a core
based game a core based game of
zombicide that $80 MSRP $100 MSRP
whatever it is probably cost Kaman less
than $40 to actually make it probably I
don't know for sure it's there a whole
there rule tools of five this production
manufacturing shipping all those but it
probably cost them somewhere in the
range of $2 to $40 to make that $100
value game and that means they can give
you that for the cost of 20240 it lowers
their full cost and threshold while
still being able to give something and
in gender some degree of Goodwill
although far less than I would hope but
something versus if they cover that on
that if they cover the shipping on that
those are things that can add up to more
than the cost of the game and less of a
sense of value because if they have to
cover $ 20 $30 for shipping versus if
they can just suck the cost of the game
and you get like a $80 to $100 value
that's a better sense of better better
perception of what you get out of it
while limiting their cost and
expenditures and again I understand that
it's frustrating you may have to pay VAP
you may have to pay shipping that you're
not getting everything you paid for but
understand that command has to make the
business decision that they need to make
in order to both take on the project
that has existing debtors keep in mind
come could do the next zombicide they
could do the next Mar United they can do
the next 7,000 other games what is the
upside of taking over something that's
starts with an obligation that starts
with debt I don't know their math or
their assumption or their reasoning I
frankly wouldn't want to like without
knowing more I just think it's a bad
decision just stick to like you know the
next zombicide we I'm sure we can do
another one of those every year let's go
ahead and do DC United or whatever
number of different games just stick to
the things that already make money
without that already backlash whatever
the reason that they are doing this
understand that part of the decision has
to involve limiting their their debt and
giving you a free game Sorry game giving
you a base game while not engaging in
any of the cost coverage is likely the
cost analysis decision they made as far
as how to maximize what they can do for
existing backers while minimizing their
own debt they may have thought that this
would be a PR rescue conversation for
them that this would be a journey about
how come on steps in and save the day
they may have factored into the decision
point of we're rescuing an otherwise
dead project that might have been part
of their process I don't think that was
the best move given how well it's
received but honestly I'm kind of
surprised is being received as poorly as
it is not on behalf of Mythic but on
behalf of Kanan and then the last thing
that I've seen a lot of people talk
about that I have nothing that can add
to the conversation on this one is a lot
of people have expressed but I thought
it was almost done if you look at the
updates it sounds like these things are
almost done they just need to be printed
but everything else is done and come on
stepping in here and saying hey by the
way uh these things aren't really done
and um we can't really give them in the
existing form and so now people are like
frustrated that and I don't think we'll
ever get real Clarity on that I think
that ultimately that's a conversation of
one one company said things are almost
done and the company stepping in
rescuing it said that they're not really
done and there is a incentive structure
for both companies to lie here there's
in if if we're just assuming a fact of
of one company say it's done other
company say it's not done someone is I
don't even want to use the term lying
but someone is there are different
perceptions of reality let's call it
that way sometimes when you sometimes
when you say something it's not always
about lying it's about perceptions of
reality but there are different
perceptions of reality here and that
both companies have a reason to give
that perception of reality one company
kept wanting to tell you that things are
looking great because that calms backers
down so that's the incentive to give the
perception of reality that things are
almost
done the other company might have to
deal with taking on an IP and if
everything is almost done that might
involve more of a conversation around
expectations from backers versus if the
backers hear that a lot of these things
aren't done maybe there's less of an
less of an expectation maybe not that
that's happened again so I acknowledge
both companies have an incentive
structure to perceive things slightly
differently my own two sense without
knowing anything for sure is I would
assume that Mythic games was probably
exaggerating how complete things were
and command's probably right that these
things are probably not as ready as you
like them to be there could be elements
of Truth on both sides by the way it
could be that they were close to being
done but not fully there and it could be
command's you know exaggerating how far
from done they done they are I don't
know I don't think we'll ever really
know but that's just uh I've seen the qu
questions and concerns about that aspect
and it sucks it does suck which I guess
brings us to my own thoughts of
everything not that you've not that
you've not been getting my thoughts
along the way but my own overall
perception of everything is first of all
like I said already apologies for any
way I have been a part of you possibly
losing this money I I I genuinely don't
think I did anything wrong but I also
feel crappy about it if that makes sense
like CU like it's just a dirty feeling
it feels it feels dirty to be involved
in that but also it's worth noting that
I generally have been a common apologist
to a large extent people are upset at
common which has happened many times
over the years one of the First videos
on on my channel is like why all the
drama why all the outrage something like
that but Marvel United shipping way back
when and like I did like a whole fancy
thumbnail where I'm like ah upset or
whatever it is you know I was new to
YouTube I was leaning into the things
that YouTube does before I was like I
just don't want that as my um I don't
it's not genuine to me it's not genuine
so I don't do that anymore you know you
never see me doing exaggerated faces but
that one video one time I
did I have generally defended Comm on
against people who are upset and K on
cuz I generally do see things from other
sides of the conversation I do things
things are complicated and not always as
simple as people would like them to be
but also first of all not always there
have been times where I have been uh
there are times where I've been more on
the side of expressing like hey I
understand why people are upset of come
on I do I've I've my whole shipping
thingy I I did that I can't remember
which was but the the the last shipping
one with Marvel Zombies I did a whole
video I was like hey you know if you're
feeling screwed I think I titled like
feeling screwed by command question mark
or something like that so I have
defended them in general while not
always been on their side my takes are
usually nuanced I understand all sides
of the conversation that sounds so
egotistical I try to understand all
sides of the conversation and I do the
best I can with whatever information I
have so it's worth saying that in
general but
genuinely disclaimer aside for the life
of me the amount of people who are upset
at command for this conversation for
everything going on here is so baffling
to me what did Kanan do here like I'm
going to I'm going to fullon take their
side Comm on you can send me a paycheck
put me on your payroll do whatever you
need to do I'm full on taking come on
side in this one I don't I there might
be malicious intent they might be trying
to just chase the profit and Chase the
money I can't speak for why they're
doing what they're doing and I don't
care kanan's done nothing wrong here
nothing wrong this is someone else's
mess someone else's garbage that Kanan
is waiting into I they may have expected
this maybe they were smarter than I was
and they expected this degree of
negative push back from people you don't
have to like what Kanan is doing you
don't have to appreciate it even you
should appreciate you don't have to
appreciate it you don't have to accept
it you can walk away entirely but like
they didn't do anything to you the only
thing that Kanan is doing is stepping
into a messy situation in which you
might get nothing and saying at least
there's something and yes you have to
pay VAT on that and yes you have to pay
shipping on that and yes that might be
frustrating but worst case
scenario reject their
offer and just get nothing but that's
mythics problems that's not Kanan Kanan
didn't cause this Kanan is cleaning this
up and also to everyone who pronounces
that seon and the amount of times I've
said come on in this video I'm sorry I
still say come on I know they've said it
that seon but like they've said both
over the years and I just stick with
what generally people say and generally
people say come on so I'm sticking with
that but uh Kanan did nothing wrong
here and I I I genuinely believe it was
a mistake from the outside without being
on the inside it just feels like a
mistake to get involved it feels like
the only thing they did was help people
who would otherwise get nothing at the
cost of the pr the cost of walking into
an existing obligation and people are
upset of them I don't get it like if you
don't like Kanan for one reason another
fine don't like K on but don't dislike
them for this they
didn't it's so frustrating to see
someone else doing something and I'm not
saying they did it because they like you
and I'm not saying they did it because
they're great people whatever whatever
the reasons they did it R the only thing
they are doing is something positive it
is either neutral or positive it's one
of those two it is certainly not
negative maybe I'm missing something if
you understand why why why I'm so wrong
on this why why why are there's good
reasons to be upset at common if you see
something that I don't like you might
say cuz I've seen a lot of people who
are like oh we have to pay shipping and
Comm on charges High shipping prices
you're right so don't pay shipping don't
take it on but that's still not them
doing anything negative that's just
making the positive less positive and
they didn't have to do the positive
thing if you think that I'm wrong I'm
curious I'll be reading through the
comments of course but I do not
understand how someone could be upset at
command for stepping in here be upset at
Mythic all you want and also I'm I'm
personality wise I'm kind of a throwing
my hand up in the air write it off as
good money gone bad and moving on with
my life that's my personality but if
you're someone that wants to join some
class action and try to figure out what
you can get from Mythic I am of the
opinion you can't squeeze blood from a
stone but by all means try it go for it
live your best life and I don't mean
that sarcastically if that's your
personality like I've seen a bunch of
people on like Facebook fun on B forums
of effectively saying like hey if enough
of us band together on Chase Mythic we
might be able to get things back from
them because if they can settle with the
people who are upset which is going to
be a minority we might be able to get
our money back that's a reasonable
conversation if Mythic has let's just
make magical numbers here if Mythic has
$3 million of debt that they owe but
only $100,000 chases them they might
actually be a conversation I'm not a
lawyer I Don't Know Jack about this
stuff I don't engage in class action
lawsuits and left sent I have no clue
but there might be a possibility you can
get your money back and by all means
chase that I'm not saying to let Mythic
off the hook do what you need to do to
get your money back I just I just am not
optimistic so I'm not going to spend
time effort energy in there
but
yeah
and all the people who are demanding
refunds from Mythic and saying Mythic
make good I seen people anything from I
want my money back to well give me the
extra the difference between the base
pledge and the extra give that to me a
store credit I've seen a lot of people
who genuinely still are under the
impression that they might be able to
get something from Mythic and I just
don't think that's happening I just
don't think you're going to get that but
by all means Chase whatever means you
want whether asking nicely or the legal
options to get what you want but uh the
situation sucks that's what it is it
does suck again I am a backer of these
games make no mistake I have gotten I
have gotten free pledges from companies
before the nature of being a contra
Creator means I do get free pledges but
I've backed these
games the situation sucks there's
absolutely no question about that there
are people who are dedicated Mythic
backers who have lost money in darkest
dungeon lost money in six Siege and now
they're watching Helen anister go to
waste and in the future what do you do
who do you back who do you not do you
walk away from crowdfunding I guarantee
you some people are I guarantee you
there are people who are walking away
from crowdfunding and they will not be
back for a long time and there are
others who will back fewer projects and
there are others who will back projects
but limited to like one Creator at a
time so like you know maybe I don't back
six command projects in the pipeline by
the way I've gotten like three shipping
notifications we just got Dune I'm
getting uh what else is that I think
there's like two more campaigns who are
showing up soon so like it's fun and
games in that
department uh cyber cyber Punk whatever
it is that's one showing up I think
there's one more I don't know a bunch of
things are showing up from Comm on and a
nice back to back mode I'm I'm okay with
that but oh is it the promos the promo
packs that is that's what it was the
promos I think that would be the other
one
anyways I understand if you want to
limit your future funding I understand
any decision you make to try to be
mindful crowdfunding has a charm and an
appeal and sometimes it has a good
reason to back and a good value to back
and other times it results in these
types of situations I think far more the
former than the latter but the lad hurts
far more so there is that conversation
too the situation sucks this is my own
thoughts takes and all that and uh I
think my main if I have one thing that I
would ask from this video if I had one
reason why this video exists in addition
to the fact that everyone of course
wants it amount of people I've had
asking for this video yeah I get it it's
news it's I just don't have anything I
can add but the one thing I do hope I'm
adding is if you are upset at Kon try to
question why try to question what they
did wrong not in other situations in
this situation try to question what they
did wrong I have never in my life been
such a common apologist as this video
every single other time I have ever
defended them I have at least understood
why people are upset and I've always
been like well you know it's not
necessar the most ideal situation but I
can understand why it happened I've
never been like a complete black and
white command's right it's always been
like yes the situation sucked yes I
understand why you're frustrating yes
it's more complicated than you think I I
get into that kind of thing this time I
got none of that I think Kanan did
nothing wrong here and I don't
understand why people are
upset anyways until next time I'm Alex
rack from board Gameco I hope you
enjoyed this video and I hope I never
have to do videos like this again I
probably will statistics are in that
favor but I hope I never
do it's it's not fun it's not the fun
part of the Jobing trying to have a
conversation as to why you should or
shouldn't be upset at who you should be
upset while trying to apologize for my
own place in that in that space it's not
the fun part of the job I got into this
because I love board games and I thought
it was fun to talk about board games and
eventually one thing led to another and
here I am talking to you about well
board games and drama and the practical
reality that also sucks different
conversation is that I find negative
content always does better when you're
upset about something when there's drama
when there's something happening it
always it always does better than the
positive videos my most watched video on
the channel to this date is the top 10
like what it is um worst 10 board games
I can't remember what it's called but
something about like the worst the worst
10 board games and the worst value the
top 10 worst value board games negative
content does tend to be in more of an
audience but I will never lean into it
for the sake of Leaning into it but the
harsh reality is that when there's
something to talk about that is a sucky
situation sometimes you got to do what
you got to do so there is that and also
if you do enjoy seeing me rant uh check
out this Friday's video where it's
supposed to be supposed to be today's
video but this Friday I will be ranting
about crowdfunding and some marketing
tactics employees that they're trying to
do to get your money again that was
supposed to be today's video but that's
being bumped to Friday so if you enjoy
watching me rant the camera upset of the
world of all the things going on and
that you can you can see it twice this
week so I hope you have fun with that in
any case and until next time I'm Alex R
from board
Co and I'm sorry it's a sucky sucky
feeling
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