Lessons Learned From 10+ Years of Podcasting

Summary

In this insightful podcast transcript, the host reflects on the growth of his podcast from 3,300 downloads in its first year to over 100 million today. He emphasizes the importance of building an audience and business over three years, evolving content formats to avoid stagnation, and the necessity of standing out in a saturated market by 'Zigging when others Zag.' The host also shares his experience with SEO tools, the power of organic social media, and the importance of creating a compelling hook to attract viewers, ultimately stressing the value of consistency, innovation, and quality in content creation.

Takeaways

• 😀 Building a successful podcast takes time and dedication, with the speaker emphasizing that it's a process that requires at least three years to build an audience and a business.
• 🚀 The importance of evolving content formats is highlighted, as audiences can become accustomed to the same style, leading to a decline in engagement and growth.
• 🔄 The speaker shares their experience with changing the podcast format to react to trending topics, which has led to positive feedback and increased engagement from listeners.
• 💬 Unsolicited responses from the audience are a strong indicator of whether the content is resonating and on the right track, with negative feedback signaling the need for change.
• 🔑 The 'magic number' of three years is presented as a key period to build and establish a business or audience before significant growth occurs.
• 💡 The speaker advises to 'Zig where others are zagging,' meaning to differentiate and innovate in a space where many are doing the same thing, to stand out.
• 📈 A testimonial for the SEO tool 'HR' is shared, highlighting its features for analyzing site structure and traffic, which can be valuable for marketing strategies.
• 📊 The significance of a good hook in content creation is underscored, with the example of a simple change leading to a massive increase in views.
• 🔍 The importance of testing and leveraging organic social media performance to inform paid advertising strategies is discussed, as successful organic content can be amplified with ads.
• 🌐 The speaker mentions the emerging opportunities on platforms like LinkedIn and Twitter, advising to capitalize on new features as they are rolled out.
• 📈 The potential of programmatic conversion rate optimization and AI in tailoring custom messages for website visitors is introduced as part of innovative marketing strategies.

Q & A

What was the initial download count for the podcast 'Leveling Up' in its first year?

In the first year, the podcast 'Leveling Up' had about 3,300 downloads.

How long did it take for the podcasts to reach 100 million downloads according to the speaker?

It took approximately 10 to 11 years for the podcasts to scale to about 100 million downloads.

What is the 'magic number' the speaker refers to when building an audience or business?

The 'magic number' the speaker refers to is three years, which is the time frame he suggests it takes to build an audience or business.

What is the second lesson the speaker shares about evolving content format?

The second lesson is that one must evolve their content format over time. Specifically, the speaker mentions changing the Marketing School podcast from 5 to 10 minutes an episode to 15 to 20 minutes focusing on trending topics.

What is the significance of the 'unsolicited response rate' mentioned in the script?

The 'unsolicited response rate' is a leading indicator of whether the content is on the right track. Positive, unsolicited feedback from the audience is a sign that the content is resonating well.

What is the speaker's advice regarding negative comments on content?

The speaker suggests that negative comments are a signal to react sooner rather than later, indicating that the content format may need to be adjusted.

What is the name of the SEO tool the speaker endorses and uses at his ad agency?

The speaker endorses an SEO tool called 'HR', which is used at his ad agency, Single Grain.

What feature of HR does the speaker find particularly useful?

The speaker finds the site structure feature of HR particularly useful, as it allows him to analyze competitors' strategies and optimize their own website.

What is the third lesson the speaker shares about standing out in a sea of sameness?

The third lesson is to 'Zig where other people are zagging', meaning to do something different and innovative instead of following the crowd, especially in content creation.

What mistake did the speaker acknowledge making with his YouTube strategy?

The speaker acknowledged being too inconsistent with his YouTube strategy, which affected his growth and viewership.

What is the speaker's company called and what does it focus on?

The speaker's company is called Single Grain, and it is an ad agency focused on driving innovation.

What is the importance of having a good 'hook' according to the speaker?

According to the speaker, a good 'hook' is crucial for attracting views because it draws people in, whether it's through an interesting thumbnail, headline, or packaging.

What is the significance of the 'for you page' feature on platforms like LinkedIn and Twitter?

The 'for you page' feature is significant as it provides an opportunity for content creators to get more views by being featured on these platforms, which can lead to increased visibility and growth.

What strategy did the speaker mention for growing an Instagram following?

The speaker mentioned making all followers 'close friends' on Instagram, which would place their stories at the top of the followers' feeds, potentially increasing engagement and growth.

Outlines

00:00

🎙️ Podcast Growth and Evolution Insights

The speaker shares their experience with podcasting, highlighting the challenges of discovery and growth over the years. They emphasize the importance of perseverance, stating that it typically takes three years to build a substantial audience or business. The speaker also discusses the necessity of evolving content formats to avoid stagnation and maintain audience engagement. They mention their transition from daily short episodes to longer, weekly episodes that react to trending topics, which has been well-received by the audience. Additionally, the speaker underscores the value of unsolicited feedback as a leading indicator of content success and the need to adjust strategies based on audience response.

05:01

🚀 Strategies for Marketing Innovation and Growth

The speaker introduces their company, Single Grain, an ad agency focused on driving innovation. They discuss new strategies such as programmatic conversion rate optimization and the use of AI for tailoring custom messages to enrich visitor experiences on websites. The speaker encourages staying consistent and evolving content formats to remain relevant. They also share personal anecdotes about the importance of quality and the impact of a strong hook in attracting views on social media platforms. The speaker illustrates the power of a compelling thumbnail or headline with a real-life example of a significant increase in views after a minor adjustment. They conclude by emphasizing the importance of testing and leveraging organic social content to inform paid advertising strategies.

10:03

📈 Leveraging Social Media Features for Maximum Reach

The speaker discusses strategies for maximizing views on social media platforms, particularly focusing on new features and the importance of early adoption. They mention the 'For You' pages on LinkedIn and Twitter as opportunities for increased visibility. The speaker also suggests making all followers 'close friends' on Instagram to prioritize their content in stories, a tactic that has been used to achieve massive view counts. They highlight the role of marketers in experimenting with these strategies to grow their follower base and reach. The segment concludes with a mention of the Agency Owners Association, a community for agency owners to share insights and grow their businesses, with testimonials highlighting the value of the group.

Keywords

💡Podcast

A podcast is a digital audio program that is available for download or streaming, often covering a particular theme or featuring interviews. In the video's theme, the speaker reflects on their journey of starting a podcast 11 years ago and the growth in downloads over time, illustrating the importance of persistence and evolution in content creation.

💡Downloads

In the context of digital media, 'downloads' refers to the number of times a file, such as a podcast episode, has been downloaded by users. The script discusses the significant growth in downloads from 3,300 in the first year to over 100 million, highlighting the compound effect of consistent content production and audience building.

💡Content Format

Content format refers to the structure and style in which information is presented. The speaker mentions evolving the content format of their podcast as a way to keep the content fresh and engaging, such as changing from a daily 5-10 minute episode to a weekly series of 15-20 minute episodes that react to trending topics.

💡Marketing School Podcast

The 'Marketing School Podcast' is specifically mentioned as an example of the speaker's content creation. It is used to illustrate the process of sharing foundational knowledge about marketing and the need to evolve the podcast's format to maintain listener interest and growth.

💡News Cycle

The 'news cycle' refers to the period in which news stories are reported and become outdated as new stories emerge. The script mentions reacting to the news cycle as a way to keep podcast content relevant and timely, which can help in attracting and retaining an audience.

💡Listener Churn

Listener churn is a term used to describe the loss of audience members over time, often due to a lack of engagement or新鲜感. The speaker discusses how not evolving the podcast's content led to listener churn and the need to innovate to prevent it.

💡SEO Tool

An 'SEO tool' is a software or service that helps improve a website's visibility in search engine results. The speaker mentions using an SEO tool called 'HR' at their ad agency to analyze traffic and optimize website performance, emphasizing the importance of understanding and leveraging SEO for business growth.

💡Zigging and Zagging

The phrase 'Zigging when others are zagging' suggests taking a different approach or strategy from the norm. The speaker uses this concept to discuss the importance of innovation and differentiation in content creation, such as shifting from interview-based podcasts to solo episodes to stand out in a saturated market.

💡Agency Owners Association

The 'Agency Owners Association' is mentioned as a community for agency owners to share ideas and grow their businesses. It represents a platform for peer support and learning, which is crucial for innovation and staying ahead in the competitive agency landscape.

💡Organic Social

Organic social refers to the unpaid, algorithm-driven visibility of content on social media platforms. The speaker talks about leveraging organic social to test content and then using paid advertising to amplify content that has proven successful organically, which is a strategy for maximizing reach and engagement.

💡Hook

A 'hook' in media and marketing is a compelling element designed to attract attention and engage the audience. The script uses the example of a thumbnail or headline that drastically increased views from 500 to 30 million, underscoring the importance of a strong hook in capturing audience interest.

Highlights

It took about 11 years to achieve 100 million downloads across two podcasts.

The initial year saw only 3,300 downloads, growing to 14,000 in the second year, and 377,000 in the third year.

The 'magic number' for building an audience or a business is three years.

Content format evolution is crucial, as seen with the Marketing School podcast shifting from daily episodes to reacting to the news cycle.

Listener churn and negative reviews can indicate the need for content evolution.

Unsolicited responses from the audience are a leading indicator of being on the right track.

Negative comments are a stronger signal and should prompt quicker reactions.

H1 (a favorite SEO tool) offers insights into competitor strategies and optimization of one's own website.

Zigging when others zag is a strategy for standing out, as seen with the shift from interview podcasts to solo episodes.

Innovation in podcast formats is essential to avoid becoming stale in a saturated market.

Consistency and continuous improvement are key to staying relevant in the podcast space.

The importance of quality content and the effort put into it is recognized by the audience.

The difference between 500 views and 30 million views can be attributed to the effectiveness of the hook, such as thumbnails or headlines.

Testing organic social content and then turning successful pieces into ads is a proven strategy.

The Agency Owners Association is a community for agency owners to share leads and insights, aiming to foster growth.

Utilizing new social media features, like LinkedIn's 'For You' page, can significantly boost visibility.

Making all followers 'close friends' on Instagram can improve the visibility of your stories and potentially increase views.

Transcripts

podcast Discovery is really hard my

first podcast leveling up I started that

one maybe 11 years ago or so this is a

lot of hard work people respect it more

when they see that more work is being

put into

it we've scaled to about 100 million

downloads through the two podcasts that

we have and year one I remember about

3,300 downloads for the year and then

year two was about 14,000 or so and then

year three maybe 377,000 downloads so

you can see it starting to compound over

time now we're year 10 year 11 or so and

we're over 100 million downloads so

there's a couple lessons that I I I want

to share from there the first lesson is

to build over time the magic number is

three years three years to build an

audience three years to build a business

and I found the magic number to always

be three it takes you know year you're

kind of slugging it out two years three

years three years is when you're like oh

man I I kind of have something right so

magic number is three years and uh don't

give up before that the second thing I

would say is you must evolve your

content format and what I mean by that

is with the marketing School podcast we

were doing 5 to 10 minutes an episode

for seven days a week and we're teaching

everything that we knew about marketing

but after two three years of doing that

you've basically shared all your base

knowledge your foundational knowledge

and so you have to evolve we didn't

evolve for another one two years after

that and that's when we started to get

bad reviews it's like oh you know

they're saying the same things over and

over and that's where you start to get

listener churn and you're not growing as

fast as you used to and so we knew that

that format became stale and we took a

little too long to adjust but we did

adjust eventually and I would say the

format that we have now where we publish

five times per week so Monday through

Friday each episode is 15 to 20 minutes

and the main difference now is that

we're reacting to the news cycle so it's

trending topics and you have two

operators two marketers that are sharing

knowledge and now we get a lot of text

from people saying how much they enjoy

this content and we can see the UN

unsolicited response rate in YouTube

about how much people are enjoying this

content and even right now we just

started the another YouTube channel for

marketing school and there's a lot of

people saying oh my God I don't know why

you're not getting more views so when

you're starting out look for those

unsolicited responses from people those

comments from people and that is a

signal that's a leading indicator that

you're you're on the right track if

you're getting no comments or negative

comments you're probably on the wrong

track right and when you get negative

comments that's to me is more of a

signal than anything and you should

react to it sooner I think we took too

long to to react to it I wanted to take

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being said back to the video and the

final thing I'll say the third lesson

here is you must Zig where other people

are zagging and what I mean by that is

my first podcast leveling up I started

that one maybe 11 years ago or so and

that was Interview podcast and I was

interviewing entrepreneurs but I was

focused on marketing and so that was

novel at the time that was new and I

actually was getting a lot of views I

would post them to I'd post to Skype

interviews you guys remember Skype I was

post a Skype interview to YouTube and

they would get a lot of views some some

videos would get 20 30 40,000 views or

so that's that back in the day YouTube

was easy right that's maybe another side

quest sticking with something that's

working doubling tripling down on it

that's something I should have done with

YouTube I was too inconsistent with it

but going back to number three you have

to Zig when other people are zagging and

so the problem now with interviews is

everybody does an interview show and

nobody's really innovating on it now

every now and then someone you might get

a really good guest and the content is

going to be really interesting and the

interviewer knows how to ask good

questions but most of the time most

interviewers don't know how to ask good

questions and everyone's doing interview

podcasts and so well then then how are

you going to stand out in a in a sea of

samess and so now I've kind of changed

my format to focus maybe 10 20% of the

time I'll still do interview podcasts

for someone that I people that I

genuinely want to talk to and but I I

I've been doing more solo episodes and

I've been enjoying those a lot more and

I actually don't care if I'm getting

less viewership on those solo episodes

one I'm enjoying it two I know I'm going

to reach the people that I need to reach

because I know the YouTube algorithm um

is going to continue to work for me all

the time um in addition to me posting to

all the the audio channels too so um

when you feel quote unquote that a a

format's no longer serving you that's

when you should think about changing it

all right quick note this is about my

company it's called single grain and

single grain is an ad agency where we're

focused on driving Innovation and so I

want to talk about a couple new

strategies and if you need help with

marketing great if not hear a couple new

strategies that you should try out one

is programmatic cro so we are doing

programmatic conversion rate

optimization on our site we're building

products that will automatically

optimize your site to increase

conversion rates we're also Auto

optimizing auto updating uh from a from

a SEO standpoint and we're constantly

thinking about what else we can do in

terms of enriching the visitors that are

hitting your website and also tailoring

custom messages for them using Ai and so

there's a handful of things that we're

doing from a marketing standpoint and

our mission is just to drive more

Innovation so if you want to learn more

just go to single grain.com grain like

rice so single grain.com to learn more

and we'll see you inside so the the

wrap-up basically you just got to stay

in the game and you have to continue to

get better and that's easier said than

done and I can tell you I did too many

things over 11 years I was inconsistent

I was talking about different things and

you know I took too long to evolve uh my

content formats or you know I just just

a lot of things there right so um again

three years it takes to to build

something great evolve your content

format Zig where other people are

zagging and stay consistent and you're

going to be fine podcast Discovery is

really hard and we're trying to put more

of our efforts into YouTube so for

example you're seeing me record this

right now um this is this is a lot of

hard work we we have a we have a great

you know AV person that comes in Brad

and um you know we sit down record in

person I I have to drive over here um

and so there there's actually manual

work to be done with with this and so

you get what you put in I do tend to

think that people respect it more when

they see that more work is being put

into it um and I can see that with my my

reals too my reals my Tik toks and some

of my reals you know they'll get

millions of views or so and um it's

because I think we're putting in the

extra work so quality matters uh quite a

bit now the other thing I want to talk

about is the difference between 500

views and 30 million views so I kind of

talked about this in in the past but

this guy that that used to work for me

um he basically created two new

Instagram channels and one had 700k

followers the other one had 600k he

started a brand new show and he released

a video 500 views basically crickets he

was really sad because well he put a lot

of time and effort into it and he's like

you know what I need to change something

so he basically just added in the very

first the thumbnail or you can say the

the the first image was a title on what

people were going to see and that was

the only change just right before you

watch there's a little title right and

that was the difference between 30

million views versus 500 views and that

makes a big difference so those of you

that that are into creating anything you

have to think about your hook if you

don't have a good hook then you're not

going to get the views that you need

because people are so busy you got to

think about how how you can hook people

in whether it's a very interesting

thumbnail or a really good headline

that's what's going to draw people in

because it doesn't matter that that this

is a perfect example of it doesn't

matter how good your content is 80 cents

on the dollar is spent on your head line

or your thumbnail or your packaging

right so when it comes to YouTube when

it comes to Tik Tok when it comes to

Instagram you have to think about how

you hook people in and the beauty of

organic social now is that you can test

how well your organic social videos do

and the ones that do well you can make

them into an ad because it's already

proven to work it's already proven to

work with Organic social it's proven

itself out there in the wild so now you

can actually put add dollars to it and I

think that's going to continue to be a

really big opportunity probably for the

next 12 months or so probably going into

2025 and and that's how you're going to

get get more more views right I got to

take a minute to tell you about the

agency Owners Association this is a pure

group for agency owners think YPO or EO

but for agency owners and I just wanted

to read you a couple of testimonials so

this first one comes from Carrie and we

asked her what do you like most about

the group she said having a group of

people to discuss and bounce ideas the

leads are great too yes we share leads

in this group as well this one from alen

he says the ability to really post

whatever I want and need and the group

responds great experienced members

getting a lot of insights from

conversations with other members getting

a lot of value from sessions from Eric

getting advice from others as well and

so if you want to grow your agency

faster and you want a peer group to do

so just go to marketing school.i agency

this is a group that both Neil and I

created and our hope here is to create a

Vibrant Community of agency owners and

do a lot more with it in the future so

again marketing school. i/ agency and

we'll see you inside and the the other

thing too talking about views is when

you think about LinkedIn

LinkedIn now is adding in a for you page

okay Twitter or X has basically added a

for you I think they've added a for you

page but they they're going a lot harder

on video all that to say is when these

new social or new social when these

platforms launch new features you want

to go all in on them right so we're

going to go all in on LinkedIn with um

with the the foru page they're they're

slowly rolling that out right now and

then X is going to get more serious over

time as well and um that's what I would

say the other thing I would say too

talking about getting more views is one

thing you can do on your Instagram is

you can make everyone on your all your

followers you can make them your close

friends and if they become your close

friends that means you're first in line

on the stories right um and that this is

like a a recent hack people are are

using to grow their their follower

account I think someone got um 100

million views or something like that and

so that's something that we might

consider testing or playing around with

because you know we're marketers and we

want to experiment with things and we

had someone reach out to us that that

specializes in in in doing it so might

be interesting to to try out and that's

what I would say

so that being said that's it for this

segment

[Music]