Mythic Games....And That Anastyr & Hel Update

Summary

In this video, Alex Rad from Board Gameco addresses the controversy surrounding Mythic Games and their financial troubles, which led to Command Games taking over the production of 'Hell' and 'Anister'. Alex provides an in-depth analysis without insider information, apologizes for past endorsements, and discusses the implications for backers. He also defends Command Games' actions, expressing confusion at the backlash they've received for stepping in to salvage the projects.

Takeaways

• 📢 Alex Rad from Board Gameco discusses the situation with Mythic Games and their transition to Command Games, emphasizing he has no insider information.
• 🚫 Alex Rad apologizes for previously recommending Mythic Games' products and acknowledges the frustration of backers who may have lost money.
• 🛑 The video outlines the handover of Mythic Games' 'Hell' and 'Anister' to Command Games, which will involve substantial reworks and are not in a deliverable state.
• 🎲 Backers of 'Hell' and 'Anister' will receive a 'free gift' of a base game version, but details on the extent of changes or additional costs like shipping are unclear.
• 💸 There is a sense of financial loss and unfairness among backers who spent more on higher tiers or all-in pledges, receiving the same base game as those who backed less.
• 🔄 The change in game development hands has left many backers feeling uncertain about the final product and its comparison to what was originally promised.
• 🤝 Alex Rad believes Command Games has not done anything wrong in this situation and is stepping in to salvage a failing project, providing something where there could be nothing.
• 🚫 Some backers are upset about having to pay for shipping and VAT on the 'free gift' and the potential changes to the games, viewing this as a negative outcome.
• 🤔 There is speculation about whether Command Games paid Mythic Games for the IPs and what the actual state of completion of the games was before the handover.
• 📉 The situation has led to a broader discussion about the risks of crowdfunding and the impact on consumer trust in backing board game projects.
• 👍 Alex Rad commends Command Games for their attempt to provide a resolution and questions why they are receiving backlash for trying to help in a difficult situation.

Q & A

What is the main topic of discussion in the video?

The main topic of discussion is the situation surrounding Mythic Games and the takeover of their games 'Hell' and 'Anister' by Command Games.

What is the context of the video in terms of timing?

The video is discussing events that have recently unfolded, with the video being filmed on a Saturday night, and the situation involving Mythic Games and Command Games having developed shortly before that.

What is the role of Alex from Board Gameco in this video?

Alex is providing an analysis and personal perspective on the situation involving Mythic Games and Command Games, without any insider information, and discussing the implications for backers of the affected games.

Why does Alex feel the need to apologize in the video?

Alex feels the need to apologize because, in the past, he has recommended Mythic Games' products and campaigns to his audience, which some may have backed based on his recommendations, leading to potential financial loss for those backers due to the current situation.

What is the general sentiment of the community regarding the situation?

The community sentiment is mixed, with some people being relieved that Command Games is taking over the projects, while others are upset about the changes and the potential loss of their investments in the original campaigns.

What is the current status of the games 'Hell' and 'Anister'?

The games 'Hell' and 'Anister' are being taken over by Command Games, and they will not be completed in their current form. Substantial work is required, and the games will undergo a rehaul.

What does Command Games plan to offer to the backers of 'Hell' and 'Anister'?

Command Games plans to offer a base game of 'Hell' and 'Anister' to the backers as a free gift, without additional costs for the game itself, although backers may still have to cover shipping and VAT.

What is the potential issue with the term 'free gift' used by Command Games?

The term 'free gift' may be seen as insensitive or misleading by backers who have already paid for more than just a base game, and it might be used by Command Games to protect themselves legally from obligations.

How does Alex view the actions of Command Games in this situation?

Alex views Command Games' actions as positive or neutral, as they are stepping in to rescue projects that would otherwise fail, and he does not believe they have done anything wrong in this situation.

What advice does Alex give to those who are frustrated with the situation?

Alex advises people to understand the complexity of the situation, to question their frustrations, and to consider whether their anger should be directed at Command Games or the original company, Mythic Games.

Outlines

00:00

📣 Introduction to Mythic Games' Situation

In this introductory paragraph, Alex Rad from Board Game Co. addresses the audience about the recent developments concerning Mythic Games. He mentions that while he usually covers news on Wednesdays or Thursdays, this topic is significant enough to warrant an immediate discussion. Alex clarifies that he has no insider information and has not received any comments from Command Games in time for the video. He also apologizes for previously endorsing Mythic Games' products and acknowledges the complexity of the situation, expressing regret for any role he may have played in encouraging purchases or backings of their games.

05:01

🚨 The Impact of Mythic Games' Crowdfunding Issues

This paragraph delves into the history of Mythic Games' crowdfunding endeavors and the problems that arose, particularly with the 'Darkest Dungeon' campaign. Alex explains the common fear among backers that companies might use funds from one campaign to finance the next, leading to potential insolvency. He discusses how this fear materialized with Mythic Games, causing backers to pay more for shipping and other costs. Alex also touches on his past relationship with the Mythic Games team and the ethical dilemmas faced by individuals working within companies that make unpopular decisions.

10:03

🔄 Transition of Hell and Aner to Command Games

Alex discusses the recent announcement that Command Games is taking over the development of 'Hell' and 'Aner', two games previously managed by Mythic Games. He explains that these games will undergo significant changes and will not be delivered in their original form. For backers who have supported these games, Command Games is offering a base pledge of the new versions of the games as a 'free gift', which has been a point of contention among the community. Alex emphasizes that while this is good news for some, it also brings up concerns about the value of the original pledges and the changes to the games.

15:03

🎲 Dissecting the Good and Bad News for Backers

In this paragraph, Alex explores the mixed reactions from the community regarding the transition of 'Hell' and 'Aner' to Command Games. He highlights the positive aspect that backers will receive a game, despite the changes, and contrasts this with the frustration of those who backed at higher levels and are now receiving the same base game as those who backed at lower levels. Alex also addresses the potential changes to the games themselves, which may be seen as a positive or negative depending on individual preferences.

20:04

🤔 Addressing Community Concerns and the 'Free Gift' Controversy

Alex addresses specific concerns raised by the community, focusing on the use of the term 'free gift' by Command Games. He speculates that this terminology is likely a legal strategy to clarify that Command Games is not under any obligation to provide the games, but is doing so voluntarily. He also discusses the potential costs for backers, such as shipping and VAT, and the complexities of the situation from a business perspective.

25:05

🛑 The Reality of Mythic Games' Situation and Alex's Personal Stance

In this paragraph, Alex reflects on the reality of the situation with Mythic Games and expresses his personal stance. He apologizes for any role he may have played in the financial loss of backers and discusses the difficulty of the situation. Alex also defends Command Games' actions, stating that they are stepping in to provide something for backers who might otherwise receive nothing. He encourages viewers to question their frustrations and consider the complexities of the situation.

30:06

🔍 A Closer Look at Command Games' Involvement

Alex scrutinizes Command Games' involvement in the Mythic Games situation, suggesting that they may have expected some backlash but decided to step in regardless. He emphasizes that Command Games is not responsible for the initial issues and is attempting to provide a positive outcome for backers. Alex also addresses the pronunciation of 'CMON' and the community's reaction to their involvement, reiterating his support for their actions.

35:07

📉 The Fallout of Mythic Games'众筹Campaigns and the Future of Crowdfunding

In the final paragraph, Alex contemplates the broader implications of Mythic Games' crowdfunding failures and the potential impact on the crowdfunding landscape. He acknowledges the disappointment and loss experienced by dedicated backers and the possibility that some may withdraw from crowdfunding altogether. Alex also discusses his own approach to crowdfunding and the importance of being mindful of the risks involved.

Keywords

💡Mythic Games

Mythic Games is a company that was heavily involved in crowdfunding board games. It is central to the video's narrative as the company faced issues with fulfilling their campaigns, leading to the handover of two of their games, 'Hell' and 'Anister', to another company, Command Games. The video discusses the implications of this handover for the backers of these games.

💡Crowdfunding

Crowdfunding refers to the collective effort of individuals who network and pool their resources together, usually via the internet, to support initiatives of others. In the context of the video, Mythic Games used crowdfunding platforms to fund their board game projects, which has now become a point of contention due to unfulfilled promises.

💡Backers

Backers are individuals who support crowdfunding campaigns, often in anticipation of receiving the product or service once it is produced. The video discusses the frustration of backers who invested in Mythic Games' projects and are now facing uncertainty regarding the delivery of their pledged rewards.

💡Command Games

Command Games is the company taking over the development and delivery of the games 'Hell' and 'Anister' from Mythic Games. The video explores the reactions and expectations surrounding Command Games' involvement, as well as the potential impact on the backers of the original campaigns.

💡Free Gift

In the video, 'free gift' is a term used by Command Games to describe the base game that backers of the original campaigns will receive. This terminology has sparked controversy among backers who feel they have already paid for the product and should not have to settle for a 'gift' in lieu of the full pledge.

💡Shipping and VAT

Shipping and VAT (Value Added Tax) are additional costs that backers may have to bear for the delivery of the game. The video mentions these as potential frustrations for backers, who, despite having already paid for the games, might have to cover extra charges due to the change in the fulfillment process.

💡Legal Obligation

Legal obligation refers to the duty or responsibility imposed by law. The video discusses the use of the term 'free gift' by Command Games, suggesting it might be a legal strategy to clarify that they are not under any obligation to fulfill the original pledges made by Mythic Games, thus protecting themselves legally.

💡Campaigns

In the context of crowdfunding, campaigns refer to the individual projects seeking funding. The video frequently mentions the term in relation to the failed campaigns of Mythic Games and the implications for their backers, as well as Command Games potentially launching new campaigns for the taken-over projects.

💡Board Game Community

The board game community encompasses the collective group of individuals who share an interest in board games. The video touches on the community's reaction to the situation involving Mythic Games and Command Games, highlighting the shared concerns and discussions among community members.

💡Content Creator

A content creator is someone who produces material for platforms like YouTube or blogs. The video's speaker, Alex R, identifies as a content creator who covers board games and has a vested interest in the situation involving Mythic Games and Command Games, as it affects his audience and his own reputation.

💡Drama

Drama in this context refers to the conflict and controversy surrounding the situation with Mythic Games and Command Games. The video discusses the negative aspects of the situation, which has led to increased audience engagement due to the dramatic nature of the events.

Highlights

Alex Rad from Board Gameco discusses the situation with Mythic Games and their transition to Command Games, including the lack of insider information.

Mythic Games' crowdfunding history and the issues that arose, particularly with the Darkest Dungeon campaign.

The announcement that Hell and Aner are being taken over by Command Games and the mixed reactions from the community.

Alex's personal apology for recommending Mythic Games' products in the past and the complexities of evaluating company decisions.

The difference between base game and core pledge in crowdfunding campaigns and the implications for backers.

The potential legal implications of Command Games referring to the base game offer as a 'free gift'.

The financial losses backers may face and the frustration of not receiving the value they paid for.

Alex's perspective on Command Games' role in the situation and his confusion about the backlash they are receiving.

The possibility that Command Games may not have paid Mythic Games for the IPs they are taking over.

The discussion around shipping and VAT costs that backers may have to cover for their pledges.

The discrepancy between what Mythic Games claimed was completed and Command Games' assessment of the projects' status.

Alex's personal stance on the situation, defending Command Games' actions and expressing confusion at the negative reactions.

The broader implications for the crowdfunding model and how this situation might affect future backing decisions.

Alex's advice for backers who are considering legal action against Mythic Games to recover their funds.

The emotional impact of the situation on Alex and his reflections on the nature of creating content around negative events.

A teaser for an upcoming video where Alex will rant about crowdfunding and marketing tactics, providing a look into future content.

Transcripts

hey I'm Alex rad from board Gameco and

today we're talking about Mythic games

again Mythic games again which is not

part of my uh news and weekend review

that I just had go up yesterday which is

regular reminder by the way those things

are usually filmed like Wednesday or

Thursday which means anything that

happens from Wednesday to Friday

effectively or even Saturday when it

doesn't make their way into the the news

bit um there's a reason for that but

let's go ahead and have a conversation

around Mythic games around Kanan around

the whole picking up of hell and ner

we're going to have a bunch of things to

get into and I will timestamp everything

but let's start off with the very first

thing and I I I'm going to try to go

like you know high level detail of

what's Happening some background

information and then fully breaking down

all aspects of it but I want to cover

two things just off the bat so you I

guess know what to expect from this

video the first is that I don't have any

Insider information at all uh I reached

out to command for comment on this but

uh didn't hear back in terms of like in

time for the video which makes sense I

only I didn't have a lot of time so I

don't know if they will get back or

won't but uh this is being filmed well

Saturday night it's being filmed

Saturday night so there's not a lot of

time between things going on here but

yeah I don't have any real Insider

information I know what you do I do have

some I guess general knowledge of the

industry or things so there might be

some information but this is more

armchair analysis and whatever degree of

entertainment you get from the video the

second thing that I want to get into

before we start from the high level is

just the just the the apology part I

mean I'm not ignorant to the fact that

over the years I've sat there and talked

about Mythic games games and I've been

on there you know i' I've done to back

or not to backs I've done should you

back in other videos I've told you their

games will hold their value I've

reviewed their products and shown you

them and been like hey this is a great

game here I have absolutely 100%

incentivized many of you to buy or back

some of their games and for that I

apologize in general it's one of those

tricky things where the trickiest thing

for me is always and I've talked about

this before in other videos this is not

new but the trickiest thing for me is

the understanding of what can I even do

differently because that's the question

meaning I feel bad there's no question

about feeling bad but then the next step

is okay great well what about the next

company the next time how can I operate

differently in some way and the short

answer is I don't know how I can and

there are many companies out there that

have multiple back-to-back campaigns and

that in of itself isn't a flag for a

large company just folding under the

weight of all their outstanding

kickstarters or Crow fending campaign

so it's a hard situation because one day

in the future it may well be possible

that I once again you'll be looking at

some of my videos and saying hey by the

way that's another company that you you

know recommended that game you like that

game you said I'll hold its

value I'm not a prophet which is not an

excuse by the way I'm not a prophet

that's true but it's not an excuse it's

it's more of a if there are ways that I

could be mindful of that of how to do

things differently to prevent that I

would I'm not going to just stop

covering things out of hand because that

doesn't make sense unfortunately the

nature of the market is you know any

Market anything is it's hard I feel bad

I ultimately I feel bad so if if if you

Harbor any resentment towards myself in

any way shape or form for for ever

having uh incentivized you to back one

of their campaigns I get it I I'm sorry

and I will always try to do the best I

can with my content but I won't always

be able to uh predict the future in any

case from there let's go ahead and start

this off let's go to the high level just

in case those of you who don't know

what's going on the very short analysis

of just everything is that you know

Mythic games basically hell and aner are

being handed over to command games so if

you're a backer of Hell or aner both

those games are being taken over by

comman with a whole lot of details to

follow that's the very very short I

probably should have started the video

just off hand with that that's the big

news currently uh there's a lot more to

get into that has a lot of people very

relieved and a lot of people incredibly

upset and trust me I'll get into my own

opinions further down at the very end

we'll go into my own thoughts on the

whole situation but first I want to get

you caught up on all the things to

consider from The Good the Bad the

changes the different all the knowledge

you need to know but some further

background to those who are walking into

this video without knowing anything

going on is mytha games is a

crowdfunding was was Mythic games was a

crowdfunding company that primarily

operated on crowdfunding they had their

own retail shop and sales and all those

things and they were very successful for

a very long time having multiple

campaigns that were frequently doing

well or well enough seemingly and they

were you know running and delivering

campaigns they always had they always

got flank from many people including

myself um the nature of how much a rder

their game often required or you know

issues with rules or post proofing and

all that but for better for wors I

generally liked their games I didn't

necessarily love all them but I've I've

really enjoyed some I've enjoyed others

more than others i' I've enjoyed their

games as a company uh and I've been a

fan of their like their prototypes in

general I mean with six Siege which has

been finally delivering right now one of

the best games ever fantastic experience

I love super fantasy Brawl for quite

some time I mean I have to go through

their catalog of games of what they've

had and what I even still care or not

steam watches was never as much for me

monster apocalypse I was kind of mixed

on that's another one we're going to

we're going to to get all that but they

I overall enjoyed their catalog of games

some worked for me some didn't they had

issues with proof reading and a and all

that but ultimately they were running on

crowdfunding for a very long time and

then things kind of folded maybe a year

and a half ago two years whatever it was

at this point year I think a year and a

half ago darkest dungeon was kind of the

point where they're like um things are

going to be messy and here's the

situation and the situation effectively

was it basically seemed like they were

doing what many people have always been

afraid of in any crowdfunding state

especially when you have companies who

run many campaigns there's always that

fear of are you using one campaign to F

fund the next and if that's true then at

what point will somebody be left holding

the bag and while that generally a fear

that has not come true for most

companies that are running these

back-to-back crowdfunding campaigns for

some it did come true for Peterson games

it did come true for Mythic games it did

come true there have been other failures

as well but there is a difference in

terms of the level of how many campaigns

versus failures there are companies that

have folded and shut down there are many

companies that have had issues in one

way or another but Mythic Gams was

definitely a company that seemed like

they were using campaigns to fund the

next one and to keep the problem down

the road and in the case of uh darkest

dungeon that problem was unfortunately

happened backers are asked to pay a lot

more money to get their games a lot more

money to pay for shipping and that is a

trend that continuous succeeds and this

is something that Mythic games

themselves kind of addressed as saying

like Hey we're going to handle each

campaign one at a time which as everyone

as most people assumed myself included

that does mean that uh you're going to

be asked to pay for things we just don't

want to tell you now because we don't

want we don't want that to uh blow up in

our faces and again full transparency

I've I have had in the past a friendly

relationship with the Mythic Games Team

many of those people on the team left

Mythic games while this is starting to

blow up I cannot speak for any

individual's knowledge of what's going

on behind the scenes and even if someone

knew to some degree something I don't

know if I'd for gudge them that much if

you ever been in any job and You' ever

had to make any form of ethically

compromised decision because somebody

else is making decisions you didn't like

I've been there I've been there I won't

speak for anyone else I have been there

in jobs where I wasn't the one calling

the shots and I didn't like the way the

shots were being called but like am I

going to quit and and some of you might

be like yes absolutely but I I don't

think there was ever I assume there's a

big difference between knowing that

fraud was happening versus disagreeing

with decisions but hoping and thinking

it would still work out which I guess my

own personal two cense there this is

briding into my own thoughts is I don't

resent people who work for me at the

games I even the people at the top I

think I'd still you know if I saw them

I'd still I don't know it's complicated

it's complicated I haven't spoken to

like Leo in Leo is like you know one of

the person people who run runs it I

haven't spoken to him in a long time

since this first blew up with uh with

darkest dungeon I haven't spoken to him

and it's one of those complicated things

because as a person I've always liked

Leo and I still think I would like him

as a person but then there's that

complicated aspect of you don't want to

be rubbing shoulders and being friendly

to someone who frankly whether intended

or not did go through this degree but

again these situations are complicated

and it's messy everything's

messy anyways so everything blew up with

darkest dungeon things continue to blow

up with six Siege asking people to

continue to pay money I put out videos

on the subject I put out the videos in

darkest dungeon in the shipping pricing

I put out videos in six seas in the

shipping pricing and I've basically

recommended only throw money at the

situation if you're okay with possibly

losing even that money although it does

seem people are getting their copies of

six Siege so at least there is that

silver lining but then there's always

the question what about hell what about

aner what about monster apocalypse there

other IPS were sold off to various

companies I believe monolith and Kon

picked up most of various IPS and there

are three IPS left that I'm aware of

again Mythic uh hell and and mon

apocalypse they might have others I

think they still have darkest dungeon

control for whatever it's going to do

for them I don't know and that brings us

to the current situation the current

situation is that on was it Friday

Thursday recently way too recently they

basically put out an update saying hey

hell and anister are being taken over by

another publisher and then 10 minutes

later there's another update from

command games on the Hellen anister

campaigns an update from command with

permission from mytha games basically

going over the details of what's

happening and what is it that's

happening well effectively hell and

anister are not able to be completed in

their current form hell is a giant

narrative campaign anister or supposedly

giant narrative campaign a one that was

supposedly almost finished we'll get to

that later aner is more of a

sidescrolling more of a zombicide type

game but with more of a sidescrolling

aspect to it so an interesting twist and

I haven't played hell so I can't speak

to that one at all I have played anister

and I did enjoy that one I think I do

enjoy zombicide more but I am cursed see

anister goes still cous anister goes but

both those games are not able to be

finished or delivered in their current

state have a lot of work have to be done

and comman is taking over on those

campaigns what does do this mean for you

as a backer well so comman didn't really

say at least if they did I didn't see it

but they didn't say whether they'll be

doing crowdfunding or not I assume they

will bring those games to crowdfunding

with a new campaign and they basically

said if you are a backer of these games

then you are going to be getting a free

gift of a uh base pledge of those games

but that's it just a base pledge the

games will be reworked they will not be

the same things you've seen they will

have the same general idea of what this

what of what those games are but there

are going to be differences to them

whether those differences are you know

different expansions less expansions

more expansions change expansions change

base games they weren't clear as far as

what bre or scope the changes would

consist of but whatever those games are

they are ceasing to exist in their

current form and they are going to go

through some degree of rehaul and

finishing and command has determined

that they cannot be delivered in their

current format they will require

substantial work and they're taking care

taking control of those games and again

if you are a backer of those games to be

clear not a dollar backer but if you've

at least backed a core pledge you will

get a base game of each of those in the

terminology they used was base game they

didn't say core pledge and those things

are different because I mean Comm on

generally I again I don't know command's

plans are I don't know if they're going

to be being those games to retail I

don't they'll be be to crowdfunding

there is a difference between a base

game and a core pledge and an Allin

those are very different situations and

none of those things are very clear as

of right now but as a backer you are

going to be getting a free gift not a

settlement not a something you're owed a

free gift of those games we will come

back to that language later for right

now I'm just trying to bring you up to

speed if you don't know everything

that's going on that's kind of the

general situation you know substantial

rehaul command's taking over you get a

free base game of those games and that's

it that doesn't mean doesn't matter

whether you back the game at you know

the hund and I don't remember the prices

different campaigns but let's say it was

$129 whatever it was the base pledge of

$12 versus whether you spent you know

$700 between the Allin and multiple

pledges and well to be fair if you did

back multiple pledges each pledge will

will entitle you to a base game but

there are people who spent hundreds and

hundreds of dollars and even though I

might have spent only

149 or whatever and by the way it's

worth noting I am a backer on these

campaigns but if you spend even if you

just back to core pledge or whatever it

is uh you get the same net result which

obviously is going to be frustrating so

that's kind of the situation to catch up

to speed which means there's good news

there's bad news there's complaints

concerns my own personal thoughts now

let's go into all of that so the good

news and the bad news start with the

good news the good news is you're

getting a game if you back the game

you're getting the game now depending on

who you are if you go through the

comments in these campaigns the comments

are an absolute mad house of people

being incredibly upset and rightfully so

by the way rightfully so of being upset

although we'll get to the at who part

later but there are people who are

incredibly upset but the first base of

good news is there are other people

filing in in every fourth comment

there's somebody else who's like this is

good news this is more than I expected

because frankly I'm in that camp I

expected that the options for some of

these campaigns were either you're

getting nothing at all or you're going

to have to go through the process of

trying to decide how much money to spend

on any number of different waves of

shipping costs and crisises wondering if

you'll ever see that money speaking for

myself and not for you this is not this

is speaking for myself I'd rather kind

of know what my losses are then have to

decide how much more to contribute to

some ridiculous shipping price that I

don't even know if I'll see the game

again the six Siege backers are seeing

their game so there is that but I don't

know if I'd be confident I don't know

the nature of if you were using

campaigns to fund itself then at some

point the money runs out and you need

more and more and possibly need the

entire thing rebot possibly at more

because the whole thing was mismanaged

so

the good news as a baseline is you're

getting something and you know what

you're getting and come on For Better or

For Worse love them or hate them whether

you hate their games whether you hate

their management whether you hate their

Community whether you hate their

shipping prices they haven't ever

actually done something that changes

what you're being asked to pay so love

it or hate it you're currently on track

to getting something that's the first

piece of good news you won't have to

wonder how many Ransom payments you're

going to have to make you won't have to

wonder whether those payments are ever

going to result in a game this is again

just full transparency this is not me

calling the future I can't speak for it

this is the first time that command's

going to do something that results in it

falling through but I have no reason to

believe that this is the first time this

is going to happen I think that if

you're Comm on games and if you're

jumping into this this is the last

campaign you want to go ahead and drop

the ball on after somebody else has

already had an issue I think kanan's

only going to engage in something like

this if they are confident in the

results because this is the worst

possible like just's think about it from

the perspective of Kanan if you have a

choice because you have whatever issues

are you have as a company your options

might be you know do you go to some

existing campaign cign you have and ask

for $20 more per backer for cover

shipping cost or do you take on a

totally new IP and then fail that one

because I guarantee you one of those

things is a better look than the other

and so I have to imagine that Kanan is

is going to deliver on this I have to

imagine it's not a prediction it's not a

guarantee it's just I would not be

confident in any money I paid to Mythic

games I would be confident in any money

I paid to Kanan it's only speaking to my

own confidence level Comm on For Better

or For Worse there's more good news

because command for Better or For Worse

have never had this level of issues with

Arata and problems and complaints that

Mythic games has had Mythic games

generally does produce good games or

they have in the past but their games

have been rought with issues and

command's generally not as much now make

no mistake common does have their common

does have complaints that people who

don't like them for sure but in general

their games don't have that level of

Arata they might have some lack of

clearity in a rule book here and there

but nowhere near to the extent that

Mythic tends to have their games tend to

be a bit more polished speaking for

myself while I do like Comm Mythic games

games I like command games games more

and so the idea that they're taking

control and polishing things up up and

changing things for me I'm on board with

that I think the people who would

complain the most against that are

people who don't like command's type of

games and frankly if you're a Mythic

games backer there's pretty high overlap

between that genre of game so there's a

lot of good news out of this update to

begin with although the news is less

good if you thought everything was going

to work out in your favor which I had no

expectation of that at this point itn't

it's not an excuse it's not okay but at

this point i' I'd given

up the bad news because there is bad

news a lot of your money is going down

the drain whether you're okay with it or

not this might be the confirmation the

thing you were not looking for that a

lot of your money is going away and the

more so the higher you backed if you are

an all-in backer if you like to get

everything you're losing more and that's

frustrating it it's frustrating to sit

there and say oh by the way you know I

paid $149 and I'm only getting a base

game that might be worth like 70 or 80

and by the way you will be asked to

cover additional cost such as that or

shipping on that will come back that

soon as well but that is it it's

frustrating but at least it's it's more

manageable versus if you spent $400 on

the Allin of anister whatever the all-

in actually was I don't know the exact

pricing but if you went Allin on all the

expansions and everything shiny that

they showed and now you're getting like

a $100 base game an $80 base game that's

much more frustrating and whatever sense

of unfairness that's present it's

further further feeling of unfairness

that you're getting hit harder than your

neighbor the idea that it's all ratioed

out and all makes sense there is

something not necessarily comforting but

at least there's a sense of like okay

great it it sucks for everyone but I

don't think anyone wishes that I don't

think there's anyone watching this video

who backed the games who wishes that

someone else were getting less but even

though you don't wish that there is a

sense of unfairness a sense of I paid

more to support more and wanted more and

I get the same as them like I should get

it should be ratioed in some way shap

per and I understand that there are

probably a dozen reasons why command's

not doing that most of them probably

just practical the nature of cost nature

of the situation I don't think this is

ever going to be a positive situation

and it's incredibly frustrating for you

no matter what and the game's also

changing another piece of potentially

bad news as the games are changing in

some way which again for me I think

that's actually good news I assume

whatever command does to the game is

going to make it better not worse my own

track record of which company I like

neither company do I keep all their

games and both the companies have

overlap in how they feel in terms of the

general amount of just you know

narrative and beat things up and all the

there's overlap but I mean for me it's

it's it's a my assumption is I like the

game more with whatever changes there

are or at least the end product will be

better but if you're someone who wanted

certain expansions or really like Mythic

games more than command or whatever it

is you might be in the camp where this

is bad news to see the potential changes

so there absolutely is bad news here

there's no question as far as some

complaints and concerns some things I

want to talk about because I've seen a

lot of a lot of focus a lot of people

harping on certain key things again and

again and again and you may not like

what I have to say about this but I just

want to give as much clarity as possible

much as much arm share analysis as POS

as possible the first is the nature of

the free gift the amount of people who

are upset about comman but the idea of

like how dare you call this a free gift

how you dare you say this is like free

and a gift and how dare you use those

words it's not free we're paying for it

we we paid through the nose for it I

hope you understand that nowhere and

again I don't know this I I have not

spoken to anything on it from K on I do

not know this but like this is just to

me this is just easily assumed and I

don't mean that I don't mean that to

minimize whatever the fact that you may

not have assumed it but I just mean I

guess I've been around long enough that

to me it just makes sense I assume

100% that command is using the

terminology free gift in their update to

clarify any sense of legal obligation

that might otherwise be present meaning

I assume that is legal Le to effectively

c ya cover their ass cover your ass

effectively that that if they didn't do

that they might be on the hook for some

sort of legal obligation for a

settlement or a problem meaning I don't

I I don't think anyone at come on is

using the terms free gift to piss you

off I don't think they're trying to like

you know be like haha you should be

happy with with what you're getting I

don't think that's ever the terminology

or intent behind it I think they are

using terminology and language that from

a legal standpoint protext them while

they sit here and take over an otherwise

failing project an otherwise failing IP

and while they go ahead and give you a

game which they do not have to by the

way there's a whole issue as far as who

owes you what there is there should be

anger and frustration here but that

should be directed at Mythic games not

come on and when comman comes in and

does give you that free game I don't

think they're trying to say you should

be grateful for this and leave us alone

I think they understand your frustration

they're probably not thrilled if you're

if you're come on right now and you're

reading through the updates and the

comments the amount of people who are

upset at you for rescuing this

project I don't I

don't there's times there's times in

life like I'm not saying common is doing

your a favor I'm not saying that Kanon

is sitting there well we'll get to my

opinion let's let's forget that we'll

come back to the common part soon

because I I have things to say about

that but the general idea of the free

gift aspect that is almost certainly a

legal language being utilized to ensure

that they're not on the hook otherwise

that is almost certainly what's

happening is not intended to minimize

it's not intended to say that you should

be grateful you're getting that it's not

intended to say you don't deserve

anything it is intended to cover their

is intended to cover themselves that's

what it is uh it's not meant to be

upsetting you that's i h again I don't

know this I'm not I haven't spoken to

them I'm not a lawyer but it just why

else would you do that why else would

you use that language which is

unnecessarily aggravating unless it's

because it protects you legally from

potentially being otherwise on the hook

it's the the natural there are times in

life where unfortunately you just can't

admit fault do you know Canada fun

trivia fact on the side here Canada

actually has a law that protects your

ability to apologize cuz that's so

Canadian but genuinely meaning if you

get into a car accident with somebody

and you say I'm sorry that could be that

could be taken as an admission of fault

and Canada because they're Canadian and

they wanted to ensure that people can

apologize they've actually legally put

in place that you can apologize to

something like a car accident and it's

not taken as an admission of fault there

are some stupid Hoops we have to jump

through because of the world we live in

and come on having to say this is a free

gift is almost certainly them being able

to give you the game without them being

on the hook legally and being sucked

into this maybe they otherwise end up

themselves as plaintiffs aome I'm

getting a tiny little Interruption here

so you might have to give a second hey

buddy what's going

on careful careful what's going on

what's

up everything okay

yeah I'll be right back um my tie raade

about the situation we'll uh continue in

a few

minutes

anyways back to the rants not rants

conversation so yeah so that's the whole

thing with free gifts effectively

effectively which means the second thing

shipping and vat again some armchair

assumptions over here but I don't know

the terms of any deal that went on

behind behind closed doors with uh come

on and Mythic no one else was in the

room where it happened the room where it

happened the room where you all found

out that you're not really getting the

things you paid for at least not the way

you did anyways um yeah so I don't know

the full extent of what went on in the

conversation I literally don't know if

Kanan paid Mythic aent for this I have

no idea because a lot of people are like

expressing their concern like well if

Kanan paid Mythic for this give us that

money Mythic give us the money which

honestly I get I do I good luck with

that but I I get that but there are some

people who have said what I feel which

is the idea that maybe that command paid

nothing for it and this is an

opportunity to pick it up maybe the

thing that command paid is the fact that

they're going to hon some degree of

commitment to previous backers which

whether you like it or not and whether

you're frustrated by how little you're

getting compared to what you paid for if

there's nothing else there you can't

squeeze blood from a stone I don't I

assume that Mythic is not paying Kon to

take this over which means Common's

taking over an IP that has an existing

obligation attached to it this is not

new in the crowdfunding space

unfortunately we've had failures before

we've had companies step in and very

often they offer something but they

can't offer anything and Comm is

offering a base pledge not the all in

you paid for and not necessarily even a

core pledge because that's a different

thing a base game not a base pledge uh

and so that's one and then also you have

to pay shipping and vat and again armch

analysis over here but I think a big

part of that is the nature of the cost

and expenditures the Practical reality

is the cost for command to produce let's

pretend it even is a core pledge let's

pretend it's a full core pledge whatever

it is that's actually that's not I don't

want that expectations let's say a core

based game a core based game of

zombicide that $80 MSRP $100 MSRP

whatever it is probably cost Kaman less

than $40 to actually make it probably I

don't know for sure it's there a whole

there rule tools of five this production

manufacturing shipping all those but it

probably cost them somewhere in the

range of $2 to $40 to make that $100

value game and that means they can give

you that for the cost of 20240 it lowers

their full cost and threshold while

still being able to give something and

in gender some degree of Goodwill

although far less than I would hope but

something versus if they cover that on

that if they cover the shipping on that

those are things that can add up to more

than the cost of the game and less of a

sense of value because if they have to

cover $ 20 $30 for shipping versus if

they can just suck the cost of the game

and you get like a $80 to $100 value

that's a better sense of better better

perception of what you get out of it

while limiting their cost and

expenditures and again I understand that

it's frustrating you may have to pay VAP

you may have to pay shipping that you're

not getting everything you paid for but

understand that command has to make the

business decision that they need to make

in order to both take on the project

that has existing debtors keep in mind

come could do the next zombicide they

could do the next Mar United they can do

the next 7,000 other games what is the

upside of taking over something that's

starts with an obligation that starts

with debt I don't know their math or

their assumption or their reasoning I

frankly wouldn't want to like without

knowing more I just think it's a bad

decision just stick to like you know the

next zombicide we I'm sure we can do

another one of those every year let's go

ahead and do DC United or whatever

number of different games just stick to

the things that already make money

without that already backlash whatever

the reason that they are doing this

understand that part of the decision has

to involve limiting their their debt and

giving you a free game Sorry game giving

you a base game while not engaging in

any of the cost coverage is likely the

cost analysis decision they made as far

as how to maximize what they can do for

existing backers while minimizing their

own debt they may have thought that this

would be a PR rescue conversation for

them that this would be a journey about

how come on steps in and save the day

they may have factored into the decision

point of we're rescuing an otherwise

dead project that might have been part

of their process I don't think that was

the best move given how well it's

received but honestly I'm kind of

surprised is being received as poorly as

it is not on behalf of Mythic but on

behalf of Kanan and then the last thing

that I've seen a lot of people talk

about that I have nothing that can add

to the conversation on this one is a lot

of people have expressed but I thought

it was almost done if you look at the

updates it sounds like these things are

almost done they just need to be printed

but everything else is done and come on

stepping in here and saying hey by the

way uh these things aren't really done

and um we can't really give them in the

existing form and so now people are like

frustrated that and I don't think we'll

ever get real Clarity on that I think

that ultimately that's a conversation of

one one company said things are almost

done and the company stepping in

rescuing it said that they're not really

done and there is a incentive structure

for both companies to lie here there's

in if if we're just assuming a fact of

of one company say it's done other

company say it's not done someone is I

don't even want to use the term lying

but someone is there are different

perceptions of reality let's call it

that way sometimes when you sometimes

when you say something it's not always

about lying it's about perceptions of

reality but there are different

perceptions of reality here and that

both companies have a reason to give

that perception of reality one company

kept wanting to tell you that things are

looking great because that calms backers

down so that's the incentive to give the

perception of reality that things are

almost

done the other company might have to

deal with taking on an IP and if

everything is almost done that might

involve more of a conversation around

expectations from backers versus if the

backers hear that a lot of these things

aren't done maybe there's less of an

less of an expectation maybe not that

that's happened again so I acknowledge

both companies have an incentive

structure to perceive things slightly

differently my own two sense without

knowing anything for sure is I would

assume that Mythic games was probably

exaggerating how complete things were

and command's probably right that these

things are probably not as ready as you

like them to be there could be elements

of Truth on both sides by the way it

could be that they were close to being

done but not fully there and it could be

command's you know exaggerating how far

from done they done they are I don't

know I don't think we'll ever really

know but that's just uh I've seen the qu

questions and concerns about that aspect

and it sucks it does suck which I guess

brings us to my own thoughts of

everything not that you've not that

you've not been getting my thoughts

along the way but my own overall

perception of everything is first of all

like I said already apologies for any

way I have been a part of you possibly

losing this money I I I genuinely don't

think I did anything wrong but I also

feel crappy about it if that makes sense

like CU like it's just a dirty feeling

it feels it feels dirty to be involved

in that but also it's worth noting that

I generally have been a common apologist

to a large extent people are upset at

common which has happened many times

over the years one of the First videos

on on my channel is like why all the

drama why all the outrage something like

that but Marvel United shipping way back

when and like I did like a whole fancy

thumbnail where I'm like ah upset or

whatever it is you know I was new to

YouTube I was leaning into the things

that YouTube does before I was like I

just don't want that as my um I don't

it's not genuine to me it's not genuine

so I don't do that anymore you know you

never see me doing exaggerated faces but

that one video one time I

did I have generally defended Comm on

against people who are upset and K on

cuz I generally do see things from other

sides of the conversation I do things

things are complicated and not always as

simple as people would like them to be

but also first of all not always there

have been times where I have been uh

there are times where I've been more on

the side of expressing like hey I

understand why people are upset of come

on I do I've I've my whole shipping

thingy I I did that I can't remember

which was but the the the last shipping

one with Marvel Zombies I did a whole

video I was like hey you know if you're

feeling screwed I think I titled like

feeling screwed by command question mark

or something like that so I have

defended them in general while not

always been on their side my takes are

usually nuanced I understand all sides

of the conversation that sounds so

egotistical I try to understand all

sides of the conversation and I do the

best I can with whatever information I

have so it's worth saying that in

general but

genuinely disclaimer aside for the life

of me the amount of people who are upset

at command for this conversation for

everything going on here is so baffling

to me what did Kanan do here like I'm

going to I'm going to fullon take their

side Comm on you can send me a paycheck

put me on your payroll do whatever you

need to do I'm full on taking come on

side in this one I don't I there might

be malicious intent they might be trying

to just chase the profit and Chase the

money I can't speak for why they're

doing what they're doing and I don't

care kanan's done nothing wrong here

nothing wrong this is someone else's

mess someone else's garbage that Kanan

is waiting into I they may have expected

this maybe they were smarter than I was

and they expected this degree of

negative push back from people you don't

have to like what Kanan is doing you

don't have to appreciate it even you

should appreciate you don't have to

appreciate it you don't have to accept

it you can walk away entirely but like

they didn't do anything to you the only

thing that Kanan is doing is stepping

into a messy situation in which you

might get nothing and saying at least

there's something and yes you have to

pay VAT on that and yes you have to pay

shipping on that and yes that might be

frustrating but worst case

scenario reject their

offer and just get nothing but that's

mythics problems that's not Kanan Kanan

didn't cause this Kanan is cleaning this

up and also to everyone who pronounces

that seon and the amount of times I've

said come on in this video I'm sorry I

still say come on I know they've said it

that seon but like they've said both

over the years and I just stick with

what generally people say and generally

people say come on so I'm sticking with

that but uh Kanan did nothing wrong

here and I I I genuinely believe it was

a mistake from the outside without being

on the inside it just feels like a

mistake to get involved it feels like

the only thing they did was help people

who would otherwise get nothing at the

cost of the pr the cost of walking into

an existing obligation and people are

upset of them I don't get it like if you

don't like Kanan for one reason another

fine don't like K on but don't dislike

them for this they

didn't it's so frustrating to see

someone else doing something and I'm not

saying they did it because they like you

and I'm not saying they did it because

they're great people whatever whatever

the reasons they did it R the only thing

they are doing is something positive it

is either neutral or positive it's one

of those two it is certainly not

negative maybe I'm missing something if

you understand why why why I'm so wrong

on this why why why are there's good

reasons to be upset at common if you see

something that I don't like you might

say cuz I've seen a lot of people who

are like oh we have to pay shipping and

Comm on charges High shipping prices

you're right so don't pay shipping don't

take it on but that's still not them

doing anything negative that's just

making the positive less positive and

they didn't have to do the positive

thing if you think that I'm wrong I'm

curious I'll be reading through the

comments of course but I do not

understand how someone could be upset at

command for stepping in here be upset at

Mythic all you want and also I'm I'm

personality wise I'm kind of a throwing

my hand up in the air write it off as

good money gone bad and moving on with

my life that's my personality but if

you're someone that wants to join some

class action and try to figure out what

you can get from Mythic I am of the

opinion you can't squeeze blood from a

stone but by all means try it go for it

live your best life and I don't mean

that sarcastically if that's your

personality like I've seen a bunch of

people on like Facebook fun on B forums

of effectively saying like hey if enough

of us band together on Chase Mythic we

might be able to get things back from

them because if they can settle with the

people who are upset which is going to

be a minority we might be able to get

our money back that's a reasonable

conversation if Mythic has let's just

make magical numbers here if Mythic has

$3 million of debt that they owe but

only $100,000 chases them they might

actually be a conversation I'm not a

lawyer I Don't Know Jack about this

stuff I don't engage in class action

lawsuits and left sent I have no clue

but there might be a possibility you can

get your money back and by all means

chase that I'm not saying to let Mythic

off the hook do what you need to do to

get your money back I just I just am not

optimistic so I'm not going to spend

time effort energy in there

but

yeah

and all the people who are demanding

refunds from Mythic and saying Mythic

make good I seen people anything from I

want my money back to well give me the

extra the difference between the base

pledge and the extra give that to me a

store credit I've seen a lot of people

who genuinely still are under the

impression that they might be able to

get something from Mythic and I just

don't think that's happening I just

don't think you're going to get that but

by all means Chase whatever means you

want whether asking nicely or the legal

options to get what you want but uh the

situation sucks that's what it is it

does suck again I am a backer of these

games make no mistake I have gotten I

have gotten free pledges from companies

before the nature of being a contra

Creator means I do get free pledges but

I've backed these

games the situation sucks there's

absolutely no question about that there

are people who are dedicated Mythic

backers who have lost money in darkest

dungeon lost money in six Siege and now

they're watching Helen anister go to

waste and in the future what do you do

who do you back who do you not do you

walk away from crowdfunding I guarantee

you some people are I guarantee you

there are people who are walking away

from crowdfunding and they will not be

back for a long time and there are

others who will back fewer projects and

there are others who will back projects

but limited to like one Creator at a

time so like you know maybe I don't back

six command projects in the pipeline by

the way I've gotten like three shipping

notifications we just got Dune I'm

getting uh what else is that I think

there's like two more campaigns who are

showing up soon so like it's fun and

games in that

department uh cyber cyber Punk whatever

it is that's one showing up I think

there's one more I don't know a bunch of

things are showing up from Comm on and a

nice back to back mode I'm I'm okay with

that but oh is it the promos the promo

packs that is that's what it was the

promos I think that would be the other

one

anyways I understand if you want to

limit your future funding I understand

any decision you make to try to be

mindful crowdfunding has a charm and an

appeal and sometimes it has a good

reason to back and a good value to back

and other times it results in these

types of situations I think far more the

former than the latter but the lad hurts

far more so there is that conversation

too the situation sucks this is my own

thoughts takes and all that and uh I

think my main if I have one thing that I

would ask from this video if I had one

reason why this video exists in addition

to the fact that everyone of course

wants it amount of people I've had

asking for this video yeah I get it it's

news it's I just don't have anything I

can add but the one thing I do hope I'm

adding is if you are upset at Kon try to

question why try to question what they

did wrong not in other situations in

this situation try to question what they

did wrong I have never in my life been

such a common apologist as this video

every single other time I have ever

defended them I have at least understood

why people are upset and I've always

been like well you know it's not

necessar the most ideal situation but I

can understand why it happened I've

never been like a complete black and

white command's right it's always been

like yes the situation sucked yes I

understand why you're frustrating yes

it's more complicated than you think I I

get into that kind of thing this time I

got none of that I think Kanan did

nothing wrong here and I don't

understand why people are

upset anyways until next time I'm Alex

rack from board Gameco I hope you

enjoyed this video and I hope I never

have to do videos like this again I

probably will statistics are in that

favor but I hope I never

do it's it's not fun it's not the fun

part of the Jobing trying to have a

conversation as to why you should or

shouldn't be upset at who you should be

upset while trying to apologize for my

own place in that in that space it's not

the fun part of the job I got into this

because I love board games and I thought

it was fun to talk about board games and

eventually one thing led to another and

here I am talking to you about well

board games and drama and the practical

reality that also sucks different

conversation is that I find negative

content always does better when you're

upset about something when there's drama

when there's something happening it

always it always does better than the

positive videos my most watched video on

the channel to this date is the top 10

like what it is um worst 10 board games

I can't remember what it's called but

something about like the worst the worst

10 board games and the worst value the

top 10 worst value board games negative

content does tend to be in more of an

audience but I will never lean into it

for the sake of Leaning into it but the

harsh reality is that when there's

something to talk about that is a sucky

situation sometimes you got to do what

you got to do so there is that and also

if you do enjoy seeing me rant uh check

out this Friday's video where it's

supposed to be supposed to be today's

video but this Friday I will be ranting

about crowdfunding and some marketing

tactics employees that they're trying to

do to get your money again that was

supposed to be today's video but that's

being bumped to Friday so if you enjoy

watching me rant the camera upset of the

world of all the things going on and

that you can you can see it twice this

week so I hope you have fun with that in

any case and until next time I'm Alex R

from board

Co and I'm sorry it's a sucky sucky

feeling