Using CHATGPT offline? How to use AI in B2B SaaS and lots more with Kyle Legare- Account Exec

Summary

In this episode of 'Unsupervised Learning', host Renee interviews Carl Leir, a B2B sales professional who explores the intersection of AI with his non-technical background. They delve into Carl's personal projects, such as creating a chatbot for sales calls and a Santa phone service for his nephews, showcasing the accessibility of AI technology. Carl shares his experiences with local language models and the potential of AI in home automation, emphasizing the importance of keeping data local. The conversation also touches on the broader AI community, the misconceptions about AI capabilities, and the impact of AI on various industries, including Carl's work in the financial sector.

Takeaways

• 🤖 The guest, Carl Leir, discusses the use of AI in home automation and making technology more accessible.
• 💡 Carl shares his personal projects, such as creating a chatbot for sales calls and a Santa phone number for his nephews.
• 📱 Carl's interest in AI was sparked by the release of Chat GPT and his desire to improve his coding skills.
• 🌐 Carl emphasizes the importance of local models and data privacy, particularly in the context of home automation.
• 🔍 Carl's experience with 11 Labs and the challenges of creating accurate voice models, such as an Australian accent for Santa.
• 🛠️ Carl's exploration of low-code/no-code interfaces like Jan and LM Studio, which make AI more accessible to non-technical users.
• 🤝 Carl's involvement in the AI community, particularly through the Vancouver AI Meetup, and his observations on the intersection of technical and non-technical skills.
• 📚 Carl's perspective on the current state of AI, suggesting that people often overestimate or underestimate AI capabilities.
• 🚀 Carl's excitement about the potential of AI agents and the future of generative AI in specific use cases.
• 📈 Carl's work in the financial sector, focusing on improving customer service through AI without generating responses, to mitigate risks.
• 📢 Carl's thoughts on the evolving public perception of AI, influenced by widespread exposure through platforms like Chat GPT.

Q & A

What is the main topic of discussion in this podcast episode?

The main topic of discussion is the field of B2B, home automation, making technology more accessible, and the use of AI tools like chat GPT for non-technical people.

How did Carl Leir use AI in his sales role?

Carl Leir used AI to improve his performance on sales calls by processing his speech through a prompt and receiving relevant feedback to react better during the call.

What was the purpose behind Carl's creation of a Santa phone number for his nephews?

The purpose was to create a fun and interactive experience for his nephews where they could call a phone number and have a conversation with a voice-cloned Santa Claus.

What challenges did Carl face while trying to replicate an Australian accent for Santa using 11 Labs?

Carl faced challenges in getting the Australian accent right, as it ended up sounding more like The Grudge. He had to find YouTube videos of English-style Santa and strip out background noises to get the voice right.

How did Carl get started with local language models (LLMs)?

Carl got started with LLMs after the release of chat GPT, which sparked his interest in using AI for coding and other projects without needing extensive technical knowledge.

What is the significance of Jan for Carl's AI projects?

Jan is significant because it allows Carl to run models locally, making it easier for him to work with AI without relying on internet connectivity and providing a more accessible way to experiment with AI models.

What is Carl's vision for home automation and AI?

Carl's vision is to have a smart home system that operates locally, similar to the Star Trek computer, where he can dump personal data and have AI models running within his house to perform various tasks.

How does Carl perceive the current state of AI in relation to its capabilities and public perception?

Carl believes that people often overestimate AI's current capabilities while underestimating its potential impact. He sees AI as a powerful tool but also acknowledges that it's not yet perfect and has limitations.

What are Carl's thoughts on the future of AI in sales and customer service?

Carl sees AI as a tool that can help sales and customer service agents by handling repetitive tasks, allowing them to focus on core interactions with customers and providing better service.

How does Carl stay updated on AI news and developments?

Carl stays updated on AI news through Reddit, Twitter, newsletters, and attending AI meetups where he can learn about creative and innovative uses of AI.

Outlines

00:00

🗣️ Podcast Introduction and Guest Discussion

Renee introduces the podcast episode, focusing on unsupervised learning and open source technology. She speaks with Carl Leir, discussing B2B, home automation, making technology accessible, and local model running. They also touch on the use of AI in coding and non-technical individuals setting up systems like chatbots.

05:02

🎧 AI in Sales and Personal Projects

The conversation delves into how AI can assist in sales calls and personal projects. Renee shares her experiences with voice recognition and creating a Santa Caller for her nephews. The discussion also includes the challenges of working with accents and the limitations of current AI technology.

10:03

🤖 Exploring AI and Local Models

The guest shares his interest in low-code or no-code interfaces and his exploration of AI tools like Hugging Face and Jan. They discuss the potential of running AI models locally for home automation and the appeal of having a smart, offline home system, inspired by Star Trek.

15:05

🔍 Involvement in the AI Community

The guest talks about his non-technical background and how he got involved in the AI community, particularly through the Langchain framework. They discuss the formation of a Vancouver AI Meetup group and the diverse range of people and projects involved, highlighting the crossover between technical and non-technical individuals.

20:07

💡 AI's Role in Communication and Fine-Tuning

The conversation explores the impact of AI on communication skills and the fine-tuning of AI models. They discuss the challenges of prompting AI effectively and the evolving nature of AI interfaces. The guest also shares his thoughts on the potential of AI agents and the excitement around their development.

25:08

📈 AI in Banking and Client Adoption

The guest talks about his work in the banking industry, using AI to improve customer service through virtual assistants. They discuss the importance of not generating answers in the financial sector and the use of AI to assist customer service agents with repetitive tasks. The conversation also touches on the changing perceptions of AI in the industry.

30:09

🚀 Future of AI and Keeping Up with Developments

The guest shares his thoughts on the future of AI, particularly in the context of virtual assistants and the importance of making AI tools accessible and user-friendly. They discuss the challenges of keeping up with the rapid developments in the AI field and the various ways they stay informed, including Reddit, Twitter, and AI meetups.

35:10

🎤 Closing Remarks and Contact Information

Renee wraps up the episode, thanking the guest for their insights and contributions. She invites listeners to reach out with questions or feedback and provides information on how to connect with the guest and the podcast.

Keywords

💡Unsupervised Learning

A type of machine learning where the model learns from data without explicit instructions. In the context of the podcast, it refers to the self-directed exploration of AI and technology topics by the host and guest.

💡B2B

Business-to-Business, a term describing commerce transactions between and involving only businesses, not consumers. In the podcast, the guest discusses B2B applications in the field of AI and home automation.

💡Home Automation

The use of technology to control home appliances and systems remotely. The guest shares their interest in making technology more accessible and their personal projects related to home automation.

💡Chat GPT

A language model developed by OpenAI, capable of generating human-like text. The podcast discusses how Chat GPT can be used for coding and learning purposes, as well as its role in the guest's personal projects.

💡Local Models

Refers to running AI models on a local device rather than relying on cloud-based services. The guest expresses interest in keeping data and models local for privacy and offline functionality.

💡Low Code/No Code

A software development approach that allows users to create applications with minimal or no coding. The guest discusses the appeal of low code/no code interfaces for non-technical individuals to experiment with AI and automation.

💡Hugging Face

An open-source platform for AI models, particularly for natural language processing. The guest mentions Hugging Face as a resource for accessing and running AI models locally.

💡Lang Chain

A framework designed to work with large language models, simplifying tasks like text chunking and vectorization. The guest's friend uses Lang Chain in their AI projects, highlighting its utility for non-technical users.

💡AI Community

A group of individuals interested in AI, who share knowledge and collaborate. The guest discusses their involvement in the AI community in Vancouver, emphasizing the importance of networking and learning from diverse experiences.

💡Fine-Tuning

The process of adjusting a pre-trained AI model to better suit a specific task or dataset. The guest admits they have not yet engaged in fine-tuning but acknowledges its potential for improving AI models.

💡AI Misconceptions

Misunderstandings about the capabilities and limitations of AI. The guest discusses the public's tendency to either overestimate or underestimate AI's current capabilities, reflecting on the evolving perception of AI in society.

Highlights

Renee interviews Carl Leir, discussing B2B, home automation, and making tech more accessible.

Carl shares his experience with using Chat GPT for coding and non-technical applications.

The conversation delves into the challenges of setting up home automation for non-technical individuals.

Carl's creative project of creating a phone number for his nephews to call Santa Claus using a cloned voice.

The difficulties Carl faced with replicating Australian accents for his voice projects.

Carl's interest in local running models and the potential for personal data privacy.

The discussion touches on the ease of using Jan, an open-source tool, for local model running.

Carl's perspective on the balance between low-code/no-code interfaces and traditional coding environments.

The importance of local AI for home automation and the desire for a Star Trek-like computer experience.

Carl's involvement in the AI community in Vancouver and the formation of the AI Meetup group.

The observation that AI can help both technical and non-technical individuals improve their skills.

Carl's thoughts on the current state of AI, including its capabilities and limitations.

The potential of AI agents and the excitement around their development.

Carl's work with Gia, a tool that helps financial institutions communicate with their customers.

The challenges of adopting AI in conservative industries like banking and credit unions.

The impact of Chat GPT on public perception and understanding of AI.

Carl's preference for AI tools that make life easier rather than just automating tasks.

The importance of keeping up with AI news and developments through various channels like Reddit, Twitter, and newsletters.

Carl's recommendation for resources to stay informed about AI, including specific newsletters and communities.

Transcripts

Renee here at unsupervised learning your

easy listening podcast for bleeding edge

open source Tech this episode saw me

speaking to an awesome guest in the

field of B2B Carl leir we spoke about

home automation making Tech more

accessible keeping models locally

running and how you even go about

setting that up as a non-technical

person it's one you'll enjoy let's get

into it when you're using chat GPT to

code or when you're starting like coding

courses like what what are you making

the yeah I don't even remember what I

would have been making back in the day

or why just I think it was an area of

interest but like with Chad gbt like

some of the stuff I was focusing on

was like one of the things I made was I

got really interested in voice like

having

it hear me and then like feed stuff back

and so back to that comment when you

said a and maybe for the people

listening a is like account executive

meaning in sales so it was like how can

this help me be better on a sales call

and that was like the big idea I was

trying to do was as I talk can you chunk

it out run it through a prompt and then

feedback something relevant so so I can

react better on a call so I kind of was

tinking around with that of course in

this space there's like a dozen

companies that are doing this now but

that's just the way it goes and then one

of the other fun ones was around

Christmas was I built a a phone number

where my nephews could call Santa

basically or have Santa call them so it

has like a clone Santa voice that I used

like with 11 labs and it was set up

Santa prompt style so they could just

dial Santa and talk to Santa basically

so I thought that was a really cute idea

from the nephews really really cute yeah

but 11 Labs is really interesting to me

like I messed around with it but the

Australian accents are really really

tricky to get so it ended up sounding a

bit like The Grudge like I tried to do

like a podcast intro but it was like the

uh the voice thing was odd like I I

don't know when you think of Santa's

voice like what do you think does he

have an Australian accent or does he

have kind of a okay he's English for

sure he's English she like hello I'm s

wow that was bad but yeah yes okay I

agree that's exactly how I think about

Santa but it was hard to get the voice

so I'd like find YouTube videos of in

English style Santa talking and then you

got to like strip out the because all

the videos of s online are like there's

like elf noises in the background and

workshop noises so you have to like

those out and there's like some software

that helped but there however that

technology works there was just like

weirdness with the voice at some point

so sometimes when the kids are talking

to Santa Santa's like it just goes

really awkward and then goes back to

normal but the kids didn't really call

it out which I was thankful for but it's

certainly weird if you talk to Santa

long enough I found you through a post

about Jan right someone pinged me and

said hey this person's doing like

they've they've spoken about local llms

I was like why and then I looked at your

account and you're you're an AE and I

stereotyped you really hard because I

was like what's he doing what's he doing

with software yes I know what's this

Tech bro doing should G be on a sales

call so how did you get into

llms well I guess like yeah into LMS in

general so I think I don't know what the

date like November 30th I think when

chat GPT came out and you know I think I

saw like on Twitter like people were

just like sharing some little stuff and

I think like our first interaction is

always

like you know sing me a song well

Pirates like something really stupid

right and then you're kind of like wow

this is really neat and then I asked it

a question on HTML and it like spit out

formatted code and I was like like I

just feel like the gears start spinning

in my head because I Bally like my the

history of my online education with like

coding is littered with starting and

stopping uh coding courses like you get

to like you set up your environment

valuables or whatever and you finally

get to say hello world and then like

well that's probably it you never come

back to it and then you pick it up later

this was like a whole new thing help me

like Leap Frog what I thought was

probably would have taken years of

actual learning to just like test out

ideas or Tinker really I'm thinking like

gong and civil have you tried civil AI

I've tried C was it real time that

you're looking at well that yeah so that

I mean that's really like the trickiness

you run into what so like what I had

built out and it was a really cud

prototype but it was like almost like a

information window that's like if you're

talking and I'm talking it's trying to

like surface relevant chunks there is a

inherent difficulty in understanding how

you chunk people talking is it like is

it at is it at a pause can you look for

like a natural like period in point so

it's it's not perfect and it was quite

hard and there's smart people that are

working on this but that was just an

idea of stuff that the Delta between me

having that idea and then actually being

able to have something you could kind of

show to people prior to like chat gbt

was got you know like I don't know I

still wouldn't say I know how to code

but I know how to like massage the llms

to get stuff to work for me so it's

stuff like that and there's lots of

silly ideas like the Santa caller as one

example so yeah I think I was gonna TI

that up I think it's just like I have a

lot of ideas some dumb some bad some

good but either way it just allows you

to kind of iterate and test stuff out

without you know some hacky way to get

it or trying to convince someone who

knows how to code why your ideas is

worth executing and oftentimes they

aren't so that that's like one of my

main interests so far yeah it's a lot of

the I would say like low code no code or

the interfaces like have you tried like

super agent or those those interfaces

that the uis that aren't just vs code

because vs code for me is very it's like

a learning curve but if I see something

with a with a interface that's very like

a like a chatbot like Jan or like um

LM Studio or something that's like not

it's not as Technical and so are you

you're current kind of not workflow but

like in terms of tinkering and stuff do

you head to hugging face for a specific

use case or are you what are you doing

well yeah so that was I mean that's how

Jan I guess came on my radar because all

the work before was just with like open

AI API and it was just fine it's

accessible they had very good

documentation but then I was always like

watching huging face there's always like

cool stuff going on right there's like

interest models and the but there's

always like a technical limitation

on like my computer like I just have a a

Macbook I think it's like an M2 which

actually surprisingly now aren't bad for

a lot of this stuff but you know a few

months ago even there wasn't a lot of

ways to run some of these models so this

is something I just looked at from the

sidelines and

then a random Reddit post talked about

Jan and I was like oh very cool so

download that and I was like yes this is

ex exactly it right it's an easy app you

can just pick and load your models so I

guess my interest is maybe it wasn't

just open source specific but it was

just like cool new stuff and a lot of

the models are these open source models

are the cool new stuff but from that

there's like two things that I got very

excited about so the first I was I fly a

lot for work and I was on a plane I had

work to do and I used these LMS for like

everything all the time just like

bouncing ideas off there's no Wi-Fi on

the plane well guess what Jan's fine

right boot it up the laptop and then you

can just keep going with that that to me

is amazing and then it goes to like this

other area of Interest so I'm a big Star

Trek fan and have you watched Star Trek

yeah yeah okay so you know they just go

they go to like the computer and they'll

just say computer and they ask anything

and it and it'll give an answer

obviously it's very hard to do you know

op I kind of do that but what does it

look like to run that completely locally

within your house and this is like you

could now start having your data

accessible you're not scared to start

dumping your own personal data in I do a

lot of like home automation stuff so

those all run locally on their own and I

hate that some of them the stuff I have

set up has to call out to open AI so

what does it look like where you have

your own llm running in your house to to

do stuff whatever that stuff might be

and that's like what I I'm very

interested about some of these models is

you know your house offline is still

smart it's like the start Treck computer

I think it's like my end goal but that's

why I got really excited Jam because

they have the like you can just start

the server and have the API calls

running to do a lot of this this made

the stuff so easy for someone like me

who has the support you know of an lm2

code but still I would not call myself

technical but the J team making this

like so easy with like stuff that I do

know how to do versus I mean for anybody

who is you know I'll just say like us I

guess it's a complicated world to wait

into to do the littlest stuff there's so

much implicit knowledge that

someone might look and go oh I of course

that's how you do like sometimes when I

first started people like oh here you go

and they just send you a GitHub link

like what am I supposed to do with this

like you're trying to go to the read me

and I'm like I does this on the problem

so I've never been to GitHub before like

before prior to you know that that was

one of my issues was I I hadn't used

GitHub but like in your day today at

work specifically are you considered

technical by like colleagues and peers

or are you kind of like like where do

you sit because I I want to get to your

involvement with the AI community in

it's Vancouver right Vancouver yeah you

got it nice I know a lot of people in

Saskatoon Canada which is apparently

like the middle of nowhere it is indeed

yes that is even for Canada which has a

lot of empty space sason is quite it's

unusual I would say to know no people

there yeah let's just on them yeah

you suck hey I'm from the Prairie these

are my people I get it but you know I

think the people from sasun would say

the same I hope hopefully you don't have

a large uh sasonian listenership but

sorry to my fellow

Canadians So currently that's

self-driven that

experience yeah like I would my RO is

not technical

we like the company itself I guess it's

always like this in software right the

underlying knowledge is obviously very

technical and has a very a lot of very

very smart people working on it but

those aren't the people selling it call

like you know a salesperson's world just

understand the problems it solves not

necessarily a technology so my work my

day-to-day is very

non-technical however everything else is

self-driven so my my interest and my

life has always kind of been like that

I've always been in sales and and

working at SAS companies I guess makes

you a little more technical

than other people actually I don't know

if that's true we just use a lot of

software I don't know maybe that makes

us feel like we're technical but no my

day-to-day it's very untechnical but

it's just all personal Pursuits where

you do this and love to talk about the

ad Community when we get to that but

yeah because that that's been an

interesting world because your initial

reaction like when A's involved in here

that also happens in real life at all

these meetups I'm still an enigma I

think or an anomaly I should say at a

lot of these technical

meetups yeah and so before we get so

that I wanted to talk about like are you

using llms at work or are you using like

you setting your day-to-day like home

automation I get like are you using like

is it NFC is that what they're called

the no you know the little

chips yeah yeah yeah I tried to buy some

chips off Amazon so that I could just

touch it and my Xbox would like connect

to my and yeah again my husband was like

what are you doing I'm like I'm from the

future I'm Judy Jetson leave me alone

yeah there's if you look carefully

there's little stickers actually all

over this enironment for for stuff like

that and so yeah there's that and

there's just like the motion sensors and

and you know one one of the projects was

building a like a Google Home Smart

speaker but that runs off runs locally

so

there's that's the end State and I want

Jan to be powering that essentially

there's just a few hurdles I got to jump

over to get that but the idea being you

can like have your little computer with

a speaker ask it a question say about

your house or ask it to do an Automation

and have that executed like completely

offline so that's like one of the the

end States so um NFC tags are just one

layer to that but it's that's the thing

that I'm trying to do and that's it's

very complicated if you think software

is hard bring in anything to do with

hardware and it's like G to the most

insane level of

complication so there's again a lot of

SM people online to help out

unfortunately but yeah I'm thinking

about different use cases for that in

specific that I've seen in a lot of

Discord communities people trying to

make AI girlfriends like local AI

girlfriends that like kind of like the

movie Her have you seen that yes like

this disembodied voice and I'm like you

know what I think there are some things

that we look back on and we're like oh

that's not such a crazy idea but at the

time it's like what like it's it's easy

for me to punch down and be like oh got

a real girlfriend but like I can see the

appeal kind of but it's not something

that I'm like actively

championing yeah yeah I don't know where

I like the local aspect though because I

don't even know you know you don't want

whatever weirdness you're talking to

about it ever being online so at least

you can just keep that right within the

local network rather than risk anything

yeah yeah I think that's a big draw so

AI Community how did you get into that

is the Lang the langang community

specifically it was yeah so we started

as so I have a few colleagues I guess

well I'll call friends actually some

colleagues depersonalize it so much

they're we're like both tinkering

together I guess and you know one of my

friends my shout out Reed Robinson he

works at zapier on their AI side he's

also not technical but kind of it is so

it's like both of us are just like wow

this is really cool we can do stuff that

we couldn't do before and so just like

us sharing ideas is he through his work

he would speak to Lang chain and like

are you familiar with Lang chain if you

come across it very briefly like I know

that the Jan team is working with Lang

chain and I have just started using Lang

chain tools to try and mess around with

stuff but I I'm a few steps behind you I

think in terms of technical capability

and awareness so yeah and if I'm coming

across is very confident in this case

again it's just the L in fact it's right

in front of me feeding me answers no I'm

just joking um the um well Lang chain is

like it's just a framework to help you

work with like large language models so

like when I talked about before about

building like the voice projects and and

chunking Lang chain like brings in ways

to chunk they help you with embeddings

and vectors in like a very easy way so

they are you know at least at the time I

I don't know the state of it now a lot

of people's projects involve Lang chain

somehow because it just made a lot of

stuff easier to do when you were

building and he got connected with

Harrison the co-founder and then you

started finding out well there's a lot

of people in Vancouver doing this as

well right you know it's happening on

Twitter they're happening across at

other tech companies it's not work stuff

just people having fun I guess or

pushing the limits of these llms at the

time so we thought it'd be fun to have a

Meetup and so the first Meetup was Lang

chain and we met another gentleman who

he had won some competition with Lang

chain and well so three Vancouver people

connected and we just put out this

invite honestly not knowing what to

expect and like gosh within like like a

very small amount of time a few days it

was sold out so I think it was 60

something people we're like so it just

shows you kind of like the the interest

that existed across Vancouver at the

time and that's morph into just an AI

Meetup so while we did focus on Lang

chain we had a lot of people coming out

of the woodwork that were like like guys

with p phds and data science who were

working on like strange biochemistry AI

projects who wanted to share stuff and

they felt limited by a same Lang chain

so now it's just honestly open open meet

up come show cool stuff and meet other

like-minded people but it makes me laugh

your comment cuz like you know

everyone's like what do you do software

developer data scientist all that it's

what do you do like I'm in sales

like so yeah back yeah it is still an

anomaly but just speaks of this new

world this is what I get very excited

about is I can sit in a room with lot of

these people and share stuff and

understand Kno how again with there's so

much more educated and you know have a

different almost way of thinking

but it's like

we're one guy call one guy brought up

something really interesting and I want

to see what you think about this so on

my side I would call myself like a

fairly good communicator but I'm not I'm

not very

technical LMS have like helped me become

more Technical and understand

that and then on the flip side you have

a lot of people who are very technical

but they're they're poor communicators

you know I I don't want to paint a broad

brush for engineers or software

developers but you probably kind of get

where I'm going their their world is a

little different than like a world where

you're engaging with people to people

all day what they called out was like

when you a good prompting is like a good

clear a good clear way to communicate to

get the answers you ultimately want so

it was like well I'm saying it helps me

be technical they're saying it helps me

become better communicators I thought

there was like this interesting two

sides of the coin but in this the middle

is you know how to work with llms which

is still helping us so I don't know if

that sounded like really strange but it

was just like an interesting observation

I had from two very different

personality types but 100% like I think

it's helping

me scale my technical capability but

also I feel like I'm losing a little bit

of my ability to communicate but I think

for for other people they're kind of

realizing they're building all of these

really cool things but they need a way

to be able to bring it was like a I

think a good example for me was like if

you've had the chance to try those gpts

like the GPT Builder it's like you talk

about what you're trying to do and it's

like a different way to build and I

think it's really interesting because

you're like I want it to do this and

then it doesn't do that you're like

actually here's what I want to do it's

like this like back and forth

conversation you're having to build well

essentially an app which it's just

fundamentally different than you know

the very strict well this is what you

called in your function in Python so

this is what it does of course this is

what it does but this is like you're

talking like not not exactly what I

meant so it's like this different way to

communicate where I think sometimes you

know people in I know people who are

often in personto person jobs

are better at communicating I want to

say always good I think we all work with

people who probably could improve their

communication but a lot of people who

are used to very matter of fact

technical speaking it's not the same I

don't know I think I'm spiring out here

as well but it's like it's just

interesting Clarity that's giving me

some clarity because I'm thinking now

about that did you say Za or is

zpo Reed's gonna kill me if he listens

to this I don't know it's like API is

the key in it so it's

like zap that's like the that's where it

comes from so is it so the the interface

with AI and it's like hey give me a

workflow and I'll do it I find myself

struggling with it because I think at

first I was too prescriptive and then I

wasn't prescriptive enough and it's kind

of the same as when you're say you need

to delegate work you need to know what

you're first doing and that's like the

biggest issue that people have so

they're like I'm just going to hold on

to this and I'll just do it all because

I do it right it's like you don't

necessarily do it right I think you just

don't know how to communicate and I'm

talking about myself this is a self-

roast because I have so many things that

I could communicate and then give to

somebody else but I'm like I don't want

to write it down over explain something

to somebody and then like it actually

doesn't work that well because you

you've gone so incredibly descriptive

for it so yeah yeah it's like learning

how to talk to these things it's it's

like a different tool set and it changes

all the time like prompting from six

seven months ago is already different

now for a lot of these but it is a skill

in itself I think for um it's also weird

there's not a lot of things you do in

life where like you ask something and

you get immediately you get to see

immediate feedback on how bad you just

communicated or how well you

communicated right it did something like

was way off on that I really got to

change how I just asked it to do

something so your I think I tried to ask

this in a really non cinct way but are

you

currently just taking the llms and like

using them out of the box or are you do

you know how to find tune or what do you

where's your interest yeah they're

they're out of the box and the fine

tuning like your podcast with the geman

from ons sloth where it was just funny

because I was like

you know they have well one they have

like the adorable little animals on

their website which almost like makes

you think it's going to be easy to

understand and I was like trying to read

them like I'm like this sounds like a

great problem to solving but I have no

idea what that problem actually is

because I I've never actually fine tuned

and I would see if there's a thing I

would like to understand more it's like

what fine tuning can do or like I

understand the process what it means

it's just

like I don't know if in any of my work

so far I've felt like I was disappointed

with what it's doing and thus

necessitate fine-tuning so I guess again

that was also a long way of saying no

they're out of the box is basically what

I use for at best I'll use something

maybe more purpose built that's probably

already been fine tuned so like in Jan

there's a couple good C really it's like

either deep seek or wizard to help with

coding so I've used that so and I guess

in a sense that's a little more purpose

built but I personally haven't

fine-tuned anything yeah neither have I

uh I am experimenting with like AI

agents so I saw that you had a post on

baby AGI and I think I'm testing out

super agent I tested out crew AI which

is there's no interface so that scared

me so it was just vs code and I reached

out to I'm going to butcher his name uh

Jo joah the founder and he we did like

an async interview and I I just I think

it's one of those things you just need

to kind of get in there but I totally

get what you're saying like it's so

difficult as a non-technical person to

read through documentation you're like I

don't know what an end point is

like what do you

mean yeah it's the little stuff I call

it like the implicit knowledge and stuff

that anybody who's like they just know

the stuff but like sometimes I find my

projects all get stuck on the silliest

problem because it's like I don't know I

just didn't set up an environment

variable correctly or something I

understand the file

structure but that's not like the

project it's just like a thing they

probably learned in like programming 101

and but I like kind of skipped all the

this basic stuff so you know maybe

that's a slight against what I'm doing

but regardless I'm still going to keep

doing it the agent thing is really

interesting and I think maybe that sort

of fine-tuning is interesting

because like that baby AGI those are all

just like cool little experiments that

came out of like an yeah like watching

it Chain of Thought

but if you get to see or play with

agents where or even like try to do

something this is where you kind of see

the AI is like it's not good at a lot of

stuff it has to be like a very specific

use case and I think this where fine

tuning probably would come in but a lot

of tasks that you ask it to do and if

there's like maybe a few steps involved

it can like f i want f up at a lot of

different steps there whereas like would

if you just do like the one shot

prompting or your shot it's like these

chains of stuff you can really see where

it breaks down and I I it's like a

prompting thing it's the right data and

and maybe fine tuning but the agent

space I'm it's probably an area that I'm

most excited about

cuz this is like when people think about

AI that's what we're talking about you

know it's out there doing stuff

completely on its own which I find very

exciting it's also what people are

scared about but it's also very exciting

yeah a question that I had for you was

what do you think people get wrong about

AI yeah I would say I have a lot of hot

take maybe but the one I think I find

most interesting is a lot of people I

think are really

overestimating what you know the is

capable

today but conversely I think a lot of

people are underestimating and and when

I say this like there's a lot of people

probably like me who are like super just

bullish on everything and like oh my God

yeah I can do that and then there's like

the really negative pessimistic people

like I was talking to a guy who was he

was just he was starting school to be a

graphic designer and I was kind of like

is that

I I don't know I could be totally way

off base here seems like a rough place

to enter right now as when you're there

and you have all these different career

pass I don't know if that's the right

path because their thing was like no AI

is really bad at like hands and stuff

and I think there's still room for

graphic designers I'm like yeah but like

but I had this conversation three months

ago it's like already I think a problem

that's almost been solved so I think

people are underestimating some of the

impacts but then there's also a really

big school people who are like vastly

overestimating where we are so I I just

I just find it funny because that's like

if I'm in a community everyone is like

so excited about this and then you talk

to like people in the real world and

they just kind of are very pessimistic

or they like it's not that good but I

think people on both sides are wrong

yeah so I think the Enlighten centrism

position I think we have very similar

views on that because there's people

that yeah there's definitely people that

very pessimistic or

I think someone it was Daniel at Jan

said to me that it's like a 9-year-old

who's hallucinating sometimes like a

very precocious nine-year-old but that's

the kind of level that it's at at the

moment it's like you wouldn't trust it

to do your taxes but it knows a lot of

stuff like that's it still knows a lot

and that's like I guess if I can do one

more thing that it's like when people

downplay it a bit and they're like well

it's just like fancy

autocomplete and I'm like well sort of I

guess but also it's the most

mind-blowing autocomplete ever if that's

the analogy you want to I don't know why

that's like a negative thing for them to

say like it's just a fancy autocomplete

I'm like okay sure I guess but have you

used it like God I don't know I think

that there's two different types of

people that say that they I think a way

the reason I say it is to kind of uh not

have people be too worried about it

because I'm generally trying to speak to

an audience who are not technical are

using it like they might have been

exposed to chat gbt

but might not have been don't know you

know the capabilities they think oh it's

a robot it's like no it's literally like

a fancy autocomplete but that being said

it's still like amazing I think there is

definitely like a way to kind of neg it

and be like it's just auto complete it's

like okay bro like you create ai go and

do it if it's so easy yeah that's it's

funny actually it is a good way to

explain it to like a new person but like

i' I've come across where people are

like dismissing it or like they'll so

like my the company I'm at now I used to

work at a company called fin they got

acquired by this company but our our

whole sole product was a chapot like a

virtual assistant for banks and credit

unions and people always like like well

it's not really AI it's machine learning

I was like I guess I just like don't

know what you're dismiss I don't know

it's just like that's just people's

behavior but they'll always like

like that or they're like is it a real

Ai and I'm like well philosophically

speaking what are we talking about here

when you say this like is it a

completely artificial intellig you know

like the topic you're like well are we

getting philosophy here or is it yeah

you're right actually it is machine

learning we's just move on from the

topic so it's that I don't people it's

just like a it's just human behavior

some people just knee-jerk poo poo stuff

and the autocomplete one just always

gives me a laugh I'm like okay you know

maybe it is in a sense in a verye

elementary sense but like my God it's

the craziest auto complete ever you can

ask it seven different questions in

different order referencing back and

it'll just like answer them all for you

like my AO complete still does ducking

so I don't know if this is like the

great analogy

but you're making me think about the

funny things that my older complete has

said very recently you just mentioned

about Banking and finance and I want to

speak about is Gia Gia you say yeah

you're working currently yeah correct

yeah well we like at its core G is just

a tool that helps like there's credit

unions in Australia right I believe so

yeah sort of mostly just Banks just I

was gonna make a jerk yeah I was gonna

be like well around my

Hut Canada's like there's like five

banks in Canada and a bunch of really

training to Credit Union but I I work

with the US market where they have

thousands of banks thousands of credit

units but um our TR just helps customers

or members because they're called

members when you're cedit Union like

more easily communicate with their

financial institution through digital so

it's could be video chat you know just

regular chat or audio just like we're

speaking through the computer so that's

like the original platform they acquired

the company I was at before so they have

a virtual assistant now so that it's

like that's not really generative AI

because like obviously one of the

biggest scariest risks in financial

services is like something generating

answers right and I know there's like a

lot of good ways to reduce

hallucinations but you know even if

there's a

99.9% chance the answer is always fine

that 0.1% is a very scary to a bank so

our tool actually like has the natural

language understanding so if you ask it

questions it'll pull from a preset

answer so it can't generate an answer

that's usually what banks want but on

the flip side there's a lot of like

great stuff we're doing with generative

ey on like the agent side so helping

them get contextual information and the

conversations they're having and just

making their life easier so it's like

one of that stuff like that I think is

really interesting because there's been

a lot of tools where they sandwich

generative Ai and it's like so useless

right it's like I don't know I don't

even have an example off the top of my

head but it's like you know that little

star icon that everything has now and

click it and it's like it was probably a

press release and that was it but on we

glaz on a lot of stuff where just making

the agents so someone that works in

customer service make like the

repetitive stuff at their job not part

of the job so they can just focus on

talking to the customer is like maybe

the core thing that we're trying to

deliver you know similar to like gong

actually you mentioned gong so like gong

records my calls it does summaries and

helps me with notes without me doing

anything so I can just focus on selling

I think that right now that's like the

lwh hanging fruit for a lot of this and

I hope companies keep adopting that

mindset rather than like generate an AI

post or something like LinkedIn has one

that I think is so dumb it's like it's

like useless stuff like that so but I

like it's like make make my life easier

don't just like make it rewrite

something or come up with it I know that

was a bit of a rant so no right that's

fine rant are fine are you on client

side are you like client adoption of Gia

would you get a lot of objections I

guess I'm saying like about AI

specifically yeah we I would say less so

actually so it's like funny that the

company has that before like you know is

there I don't know what what year is it

now but it was like maybe 2019 when I

started or something it was like 19 and

there were chat Bots obviously around

there was lots they just like they're

all so bad and like they're so so bad or

they took extraordinary amounts of work

to even get good like Google dialogue

flow it's like a bot Builder but it

takes just tons of work to even make it

halfway decent the one other company I

was at was actually very good only in

the context of Banks and Credit Unions

because that was the other thing like

this general purpose knowledge that we

have access to now that wasn't a thing

like you had to have very vertical

specific tools because that was the only

way to have it good again technologist

wasn't quite there so you had it was a

very hard conversation people didn't

know about it they had a really bad

taste with AI so it was like honestly

quite hard and Banks and credit unions

are a very conservative industry so it

was not the easiest thing to pitch so

your objections would yeah like the

objection might be like I just have no

idea what you're talking about so it was

kind of like that and you know honestly

since chat gbt came out life's been a

lot easier because people understand it

they get it they have exposure to it and

sometimes the objections are well I

don't want this thing generating answers

we're scared of that you're like perfect

it doesn't do that so it's been a great

like upleveling collectively of

knowledge that the tool is less scary I

guess the the world of AI is less scary

because you know PE all PE most people

not all have been able to use chat GPT

in some capacity which just been like

free Marketing in a sense because when I

talk about it they they get the general

idea rather than you know this scary

chatot thing that they either think

is going to be crappy because that's the

biggest objection is like well I called

you know CVS in the states it's like a a

pharmacy thing and it's got the worst

virtual assistant it just like it

doesn't want you to get to a human

that's the problem with it so just like

railroads you doesn't give you helpful

answers so that's like been almost

anti-marketing because that's people's

bad exposure to it we're in a very

different world now with just people

having so much more knowledge it's like

splattered all over the news and

everywhere we hear about it whereas

before it was like this weird little

thing like as an example here's a funny

story I was at a conference and we had a

booth and so we're like it was all just

Bankers so again assume like maybe tech

people knew about chap Bots had a better

understanding but go to a very

conservative industry like banking where

they stuff just hasn't even hit their

radar and I had a big banner behind me

that said like AI powered virtual

assistant and like the lady comes up she

like puts her glasses she's like who's

Al and I was like I was like what I'm

like what she's like Al powered because

it's just like a with a capital I and I

was like what I'm like oh no it

doesn't it's not even worth explaining

anything here so oh Al yeah he's not

here right now he's the guy that powers

the conversation when you're chatting

with it but yeah yeah sorry sorry about

that that was like the old world I think

and now it's less weird to see AI

powered

something in fact we probably too much

now i rate a lot yeah I'm just thinking

about my friends in like marketing

product marketing specifically that have

like a vendetta against AI powered I'm

like yeah that's fair it is the Super

Bowl today tonight how long does the

Super Bowl go for I about three hours

roughly I know what kind of extra

commercials we'll have slotted in but do

people like the commercials like is that

Well here here's the thing so my

American friends are probably watching

some really great commercials that we'll

all see on Twitter later Canada doesn't

get those we get hyper Regional

commercials so in fact just before I

hopped on like the king of floring from

a small town near here was advertising

their floring sale with the with the

Super Bowl in mind I always ask everyone

if you could have invented anything what

would it be like a thing that's already

invented and I wish I came up with the

idea or oh okay you can pick two so you

can pick the intellectual property

rights for something and then also you

can pick just having invented

something okay well I'm going to go to

an ebook reader and why I picked this is

hilariously I found my mom shared like a

do you know what a duang is do they have

those in Australia just like a folder I

don't know if it's just a Canadian term

just a place to hold your paper it's got

little bendy metal Clips in it the three

holes we don't have any paper over here

so yeah just like writing in the dust on

the sand kind of thing yeah know usually

it's slate

okay good all right well it's a place to

keep your little slates that you have I

guess but I had this whole mockup for

like a little

e-reader with like little cartridges and

this would have been like you know like

early early 90s so I was like wow that

was pretty good

idea again no technical knowledge to

have done it so I I'll just pick eBook

reader for this one I think I had the

idea first yeah we got to go find them

and fight them clearly who would you

interview in the AI

space that yeah I would see the the guy

we're talking about before like Jane

Harrison Chase only like he just so

incredibly helpful because I think when

you know chat gbg hit there's the open

Ai apis and stuff but if you ever get to

building stuff there's a lot of like

other stuff to make it work like you

know vectors and embeddings like how to

take a big chunk of text and make that

searchable by my AI or context length

Windows right you can't just puke in

10,000 words you have to break up stuff

stuff how do you easily break something

up the the tools exist but you again

have to go find out which tool it is how

it works how do I make those API calls

like Lang Jan just made it so you could

do all that stuff with like their little

recipe books they call their cookbooks

to do that and it's just like I have a

very soft spot in my heart for that

because it was just so tremendously

helpful because I don't like when you

start a project you like oh I have such

a good idea oh I didn't think about that

I didn't think about that but L already

thought of all that stuff so I just got

to like follow along and that's always

like kind of at The Cutting Edge for

where a lot of this is going and again

shout out to the open source right so

they're doing a lot of really great

accessible stuff that leads me to my

last question which is like where do you

keep up with everything with like the AI

news and like do you have specific

places like you said your you're

redditor yeah Reddit Twitter and then a

couple newsletters so Ben bites uh is

one yeah he's quite famous now on

supervis learning is in the repertoire

here thank you plug for the show but

that's it yeah Twitter is probably the

biggest one in Reddit and then just you

know the AI meetups are very helpful

because you get get a lot of people that

are doing weird or creative stuff I

guess I'll say and it's like I'm sure

you feel the same way it's an industry

that's literally impossible to keep up

with even like the major developments

it's insane and like a friend I was

killing myself just trying

to I didn't want to miss anything now

it's just like you know what I'm happy

stuff's moving along and you know

try yeah the fomo is very real I don't

think people sleep very much in the

space but where can I will put it in the

show notes but where are you most

reachable for people that want to chat

to you definitely LinkedIn sorry your

the Vancouver AI Meetup is it just

called yeah well we we sh it up a it

it's the van AI

Meetup oh that's right and people show

up with Van and like

color yeah no no van wids coming up yet

offering you know free free llm tokens

on the side out of the side of their van

yeah it's probably LinkedIn is probably

where I'm most active you know that

definitely speaks back to the sales part

of me thank you very much for yeah being

on the show and having such great

insights and conversation that is so

sarcastic it's really not but oh thanks

I thought that was okay yeah thank you

so much I love what you're doing here

and I feel I mean you had a couple like

real you know heavier hitters already

and now you're coming to the sales

people so we appreciate you thinking of

us in this llm world that wraps up this

week's episode of unsupervised learning

I'm your host Renee and I've had a great

time chatting with you as always links

to everything we discussed will be in

the show notes make sure you reach out

to our guests questions or feedback

reach out to pod unsupervised learning.

until then leave a like follow or rating

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until next week stay curious

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