A Very Annoying Argument with Michael Malice
Summary
TLDRIn this philosophical discussion, the concept of life's inherent meaninglessness is explored as an opportunity for personal growth and moral development. The conversation delves into the idea that individuals have the freedom to define their own existence, akin to painting a blank canvas. It contrasts this with seeking security or status, advocating instead for a life of voluntary ascent and long-term sacrifice. The dialogue also touches on religious perspectives, the nature of sacrifice, and the importance of living in the moment while connecting to eternity.
Takeaways
- 🎨 The metaphor of a blank canvas on a mountaintop represents the opportunity to create meaning in life, suggesting that life's inherent meaninglessness is an opportunity for personal growth and self-expression.
- 🤔 The concept of 'existence precedes essence' is discussed, implying that our actions and choices define who we are, rather than an inherent nature or essence.
- 🏛 The idea of ordered freedom is presented as an alternative to tyranny and anarchism, suggesting that freedom within a framework of principles leads to voluntary ascent and personal growth.
- 📜 Reference to the Exodus story illustrates the importance of proper worship and the avoidance of immediate gratification, which can lead to chaos and loss of freedom.
- 🌐 The conversation touches on the incoherence of minimal government, arguing that attempts to create minimal government have historically led to the largest governments.
- 👑 The Old Testament is cited to discuss the desire of the Israelites for a king, despite God's advice against it, highlighting the human tendency to seek external control rather than personal responsibility.
- 🔒 The script mentions the importance of personal responsibility and how failing to take it can lead to tyranny, as those who do not take responsibility leave a void that can be exploited by tyrants.
- 😷 The discussion of COVID restrictions and people's desire for them reflects a longing for security over freedom, which can be a form of false security and a sign of group conformity.
- 🕊️ The promotion of ExpressVPN highlights the importance of internet privacy and the potential for ISPs to exploit user data, advocating for tools that protect online freedom.
- 📚 The reference to 'We Who Wrestle with God' and the biblical ethos suggests a focus on long-term sacrifice and the integration of the eternal into the present moment.
- 🛑 The conversation concludes with the idea that life is not a dress rehearsal and that each moment should be lived with the intention of contributing to a meaningful existence.
Q & A
What is the metaphor used to describe the two types of people when faced with a blank canvas?
-The metaphor describes one type of person as seeing the blank canvas as a meaningless opportunity, while the other type sees it as a wonderful opportunity to create and express themselves, reflecting their attitudes towards life's inherent meaning or lack thereof.
What does the concept of 'existence precedes essence' imply in the context of the script?
-It suggests that individuals first exist and then define their own essence or purpose in life, rather than having a predetermined essence or purpose that dictates their existence.
How does the speaker relate the idea of life being inherently meaningless to personal freedom?
-The speaker views life's inherent meaninglessness as an opportunity for individuals to freely choose their own direction and meaning in life, emphasizing the importance of personal responsibility and moral choices.
What is the alternative to tyranny and slavery as discussed in the script?
-The alternative is an 'ordered freedom,' which is a form of freedom that allows for voluntary ascent across a broad range of circumstances, aligning with the principle of subsidiarity.
What is the significance of the Exodus story in the context of the discussion on freedom and responsibility?
-The Exodus story is used to illustrate the idea of escaping tyranny and the importance of worshiping in the wilderness as a metaphor for seeking a form of freedom that is not anarchic hedonism but an ordered freedom.
What does the speaker mean by 'the minarchist delusion'?
-The speaker refers to the belief in a minimal or limited government as incoherent and impossible to achieve, citing historical examples where attempts to create minimal government have resulted in the opposite.
How does the speaker connect the desire for security with the potential for tyranny?
-The speaker argues that when individuals seek security without taking personal responsibility, they open the door to tyranny, as they become dependent on external forces that can exploit this dependency.
What is the ethical requirement the speaker mentions in relation to personal responsibility?
-The ethical requirement is to take up personal responsibility for one's actions and life, as failing to do so allows for the rise of tyrants who exploit this lack of responsibility.
How does the speaker view the relationship between the present moment and eternity?
-The speaker views the present moment as an opportunity to infuse it with eternality by living each moment as if it could be relived for eternity, aligning with the concept of the highest possible good.
What is the concept of 'voluntary ascent' mentioned in the script?
-Voluntary ascent refers to the process of individuals willingly striving for higher levels of moral and personal development, establishing relationships with themselves and others based on voluntary participation.
How does the speaker interpret Camus' view on life being inherently meaningless?
-The speaker interprets Camus' view as a rebellion against arbitrary moral constraints, suggesting that life's meaninglessness is an opportunity to define one's own meaning and purpose.
Outlines
🎨 Embracing Life's Canvas: Personal Growth and Moral Freedom
This paragraph discusses the philosophical concept of existence preceding essence, suggesting that life's inherent meaninglessness is an opportunity for individuals to craft their own identities and moral compasses. It contrasts two perspectives on life: one that sees it as a blank canvas for self-expression and creativity, and another that views it as a pointless endeavor. The speaker admires the idea of taking responsibility for one's life and actions, emphasizing that everyone has the capacity to be the person they aspire to be, despite the societal constraints and the fallacy of being able to do anything one wants. The paragraph also touches on the Exodus story, drawing parallels between the liberation from tyranny and the pursuit of ordered freedom, which aligns with the concept of voluntary ascent in personal development.
🛡️ Protecting Privacy in the Digital Age with ExpressVPN
The second paragraph shifts focus to the importance of online privacy, highlighting the intrusive practices of internet service providers (ISPs) who can monitor and sell users' browsing data. The speaker endorses ExpressVPN as a solution to safeguard privacy by encrypting and rerouting data through secure servers, thus preventing ISPs from accessing user activity. The ease of use of ExpressVPN is emphasized, with a one-click connection process that ensures privacy without sacrificing convenience. The paragraph includes a promotional offer for additional months of service, reinforcing the value of reclaiming privacy control in the digital world.
🗝️ The Quest for Meaning and the Rejection of Dogma
In this paragraph, the conversation delves into the nature of meaning in life, with a critique of societal and moral dogmas that may stifle individual growth and self-discovery. The speaker reflects on the philosophical underpinnings of voluntary ascent and the pursuit of a transcendental self, which involves establishing long-term relationships with oneself and others. The discussion contrasts the idea of life's meaninglessness as a form of rebellion against arbitrary moral constructs with the notion of infusing each moment with eternal significance. The paragraph concludes with the idea that true meaning comes from aligning with archetypal realities and participating in a tradition that endures through time.
🤝 The Agreement on Voluntary Ascent and the End of the Discussion
The final paragraph wraps up the conversation by highlighting the agreement reached between the participants on the concept of voluntary ascent, which is a structured and sophisticated pattern of personal development rather than a simple dogma. The discussion emphasizes the importance of not taking life lightly and the need to infuse each moment with a sense of purpose and eternality. The participants express their enjoyment of the conversation, acknowledging the annoyance of agreement as a testament to the depth of their shared understanding.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Existence precedes essence
💡Meaninglessness
💡Voluntary Ascent
💡Restitution
💡Subsidiarity
💡Anarchism
💡Minarchism
💡Time preference
💡Eternity
💡Transcendental self
💡Tradition
Highlights
The concept of existence preceding essence and its metaphorical representation of life as a blank canvas for personal creation.
The idea that life's inherent meaninglessness provides an opportunity for individuals to define their own purpose and moral character.
The contrast between two types of people: those who see life's challenges as limitations versus those who see them as opportunities for creativity.
The discussion on the capacity for moral self-definition and the societal misconceptions about personal potential.
The philosophical debate on the nature of meaning, freedom, and the responsibility of choosing one's life direction.
The Exodus story's relevance to the concept of ordered freedom as an alternative to tyranny and anarchic hedonism.
The critique of the minimal government concept, arguing that it has historically led to the largest governments.
The ethical imperative of personal responsibility and how it prevents tyranny by not allowing others to take control.
The critique of utopian delusions and the dangers of government dependency, such as universal basic income.
The psychological analysis of why some people seek security over freedom and the implications for societal structures.
The discussion on the proper moral orientation and the contrast between seeking security and status versus a higher moral ethos.
The exploration of time preference and the concept of sacrificing short-term comfort for long-term gain, as seen in religious teachings.
The philosophical comparison between Judaism and Christianity on the concept of afterlife and the importance of appreciating life's gift.
The critique of the Marxist view that religion is an opiate of the masses, encouraging suffering in the present for an afterlife reward.
The philosophical discussion on the integration of eternity into the present moment and the importance of living each moment fully.
The metaphor of climbing a mountain to gain perspective and the opportunity it presents for unique personal creation.
The debate on the term 'meaningless' and its reinterpretation as a call for rebellion against arbitrary moral constructs.
The final thoughts on the importance of voluntary ascent and the pursuit of a pattern of optimal sacrifice for the transcendental self.
Transcripts
what kind of person do you want to be at
the end of the day is what it comes down
to and this is again why I'm such a Kimu
fan and and the idea that existence
precedes essence in I don't know if I'd
say that literally but the idea that we
have we the I always use this metaphor
and I think it's very informative where
there's two types of people you go to
top of mountain top and you see the
blank canvas and a bunch of paints and a
certain mentality like what is this this
is just stupid and the other type is
like this is a wonderful opportunity I
can paint this mountain side I can paint
something abstract I can paint myself I
can paint you know just this blade of
grass and that is what life is like that
that Kimo's version of life being
inherently meaningless is a great
opportunity for any of us to be the kind
of person to a certain extent that we
want to be and this is very very
exciting because we're not really taught
I mean you're taught in school that you
could do anything you want and that's
kind of a lie but in terms of you can be
the kind of person you want to be
morally that everyone does have that
capacity to be and we're all going to
make mistakes and that's what
restitution is for okay so let me ask
you why you conceptualize that as
meaningless and why it is that because
the it sounds to me like the the meaning
of what you mean by meaningless is
something like the freedom to choose the
direction correct okay but but but but
you've already made it clear that you
don't regard that okay so back to the
Exodus story I I'll tell you something
that H also that happens in Exodus very
interesting so when God enables Moses to
stand up to the Pharaoh he informs him
that there are certain words he should
use he says let my people go right it
was very famous phrase but that's not
what he says he says let my people go so
they may worship me in the wilderness
and that's that's very much relevant to
this issue of subsidiarity because what
it posits is that there's a form of
escape from tyranny that isn't well I
would say anarchic Hedonism let's try
that out right which is what happens
when the golden calf gets worshiped
right it's that
everybody reverts to immediate
gratification and everything descends
into hell it's an ordered freedom and
that's a vision of ordered Freedom
that's the proper Worship in the desert
and that's the alternative to tyranny
and slavery and that ordered Freedom
seems to me to be something like the
service of the principle that allows for
voluntary Ascent across the broadest
possible range of circumstances right
and that would be a very good there's is
there a difference then in your argument
for anarchism and the libertarian
argument for radically restricted
government like did they dovetail yeah 6
months okay so what do you mean meaning
this minarchist delusion is completely
incoherent uh there's no such thing as a
minimal government and and we've run
this experiment the Constitution was
designed to create the smallest
government possible and it ended up
creating the largest government that's
ever existed so if you're go so talking
Aristotle so you think it's inevitable
that the government just I don't think
so that's what the data tells us yeah so
you know one of the things that happens
in the Old Testament and by the way
before the Inc on the Constitution was
drive people were going to jail for
violating the first for spe free speech
so it didn't even last 5 years before
the Sedition laws were being
passed in the Old Testament the
Israelites once they escaped from the
Pharaoh call out to God continually for
a king yes and God says no you don't
want a king and the Israelites say yeah
we really want a king and God says no
you actually don't want a king what you
want to do is take responsibility for
your own lives and the Israelites go no
we want a king right and so so so that's
your point clean your room yeah well the
thing what what I've realized more and
more clearly too is that part of the
reason that you and this is an ethical
requirement I would say and this is part
of why I was struggling with Ran's
conceptualization but is that every bit
of responsibility that you don't pick up
for yourself tyrants will take use
against that's like yeah right right
right so that's also that's really the
core problem with the utop delusion is
because you could just imagine you know
you can hear you can see I've seen whiny
ticktockers about the fact that
they have to go to work and their
complaint is well why doesn't the
government we're rich enough so I could
be provided with a universal basic
income and I think well if you don't
have the imagination to see that if the
government made you so dependent or
encouraged you enticed you to become so
dependent that now you're dependent on
that Universal basic income if you can't
see that as the door opening to a
tyranny so absolutely pervasive you
could hardly imagine it then you're just
not thinking cuz of course that would
happen right but a lot of people don't
want to be free they want to be in that
cage we see it nowadays where people are
desperate to have Co restrictions back
and they're wearing
masks yeah well that's a false security
right yeah yeah it's also a cue that
you're a part of the in group it's a
very clear visual signal that you're one
of the good guys cuz I'm wearing yeah
well that's a form of that's a form of
security too in a form of unearned moral
of un unearned moral
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more yeah all right so so let's maybe
we'll close with this we probably should
so let's let's try this
so this is a complicated question all
right lightning round you're
contrasting that that form of in that
specific comment you are contrasting a
kind of of security and Status seeking
with the proper Moral Moral orientation
so let me try something on on on you for
size I don't it's necessarily status
necessarily I think a lot of people just
want security they don't care about
status they they okay that's fine that's
fine but you can imagine some people
would concern themselves with security
and other people might corre that's fine
that's fine and both of those could be
illusory and unearned correct okay so
obviously there's an
orientation that isn't that right that's
an alternative to that that you would
find admirable yes okay so here's one of
the things that I've been deriving I'm
writing this book on the on the biblical
Corpus called we who wrestle with God
and I've been trying to understand the
nature of the ethos that's being
presented okay so one of the things I
would say there's two elements to the
ethos one is that you sacrifice the
short term for the long term right so
that's a Time preference issue and in
fact that's the definition of sacrifice
so part of what the Old Testament is
about is an inquiry into the form of
sacrifice that's most pleasing to God
and it's clearly something like a
long-term sacrifice right is you put up
with the privations of the moment to
ensure riches in heaven yeah exact
exactly so so it's actually it's
actually a time frame that's extended
out into into eternity right which is a
very interesting thing right I mean I
mean I'm I'm not even sure what to make
of that is that like is the proper time
frame infinite like is that how you
should be regarding the echoing of each
of your actions because the answer to
that could hypothetically be yes well
this is a big distinction between
Judaism and Christianity or at least as
I was taught in Yeshiva where we were
taught that this whole when I went to
church for the first time with a bunch
of friends in the midwest they never met
a Jewish person before so they started
interrogating me I didn't have a lot of
the answers and one of the points is
Judaism is not at all thinking about the
afterlife because the way we're taught
is this life is a beautiful gift the
Creator and if you're looking if he's
giv you this amazing meal and you're
like what's for dessert it's almost
spitting in his face so appreciate this
gift you've given and do the most you
can with it in accordance with his wi as
and he let him worry about the dessert
he knows what he's doing right William
Blake would have a good a good objection
to that idea I would say because he his
Transcendent Vision was to see eternity
in a grain of sand right so that instead
of replacing the present with the
forestalled and suffering the error that
you just described is you integrate the
Eternal into the moment yes right right
which and then well that's you see that
you see Echoes of that in the gospel
insistence that Christ has that the
Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the
Earth but men will not see it right so
it isn't something like it's ambiguous
because it's also what happens in the
infinite future but it isn't only that
it's what happens in the infinite future
that's infused into the current state
there's very different kinds of
Christianity and how they approach right
right right well and it's a complicated
problem because you know one of the
things we've talked about today is the
notion of time frame and the fact that
as you mature and I this is actually the
definition of maturation is that your
time frame expands right so that you're
trying to calculate the proper path
along along across the broadest possible
variety of iterations but I just also
feel very very strongly that this is
this this life as we have it no matter
what your religious view is not dress
rehearsal right and don't take it
lightly and no matter what your faith is
God put you on this Earth for a reason
and don't just be like H whatever I'm
I'll worry about it you know after with
in the afterlife yeah yeah well the you
can see that the what the exaggeration
of that Viewpoint leads to the Marxist
criticism that religion is just the
opiate of the masses is you can suffer
all you need to now because reward in
the afterlife will be infinite yeah well
I right no no I it seems to me that it
has something much more to do at a more
profound level with this notion of
infusing the moment with eternality is
that and N you kind of caught on to that
to some degree right because when he was
trying to work out what you would be
motivated by if you actually what would
you say Express what he described as the
will to power properly that you would
try to live every moment so that if you
were destined to have to relive that
moment for eternity you would say yes to
it right so yeah yeah so so that is that
is a conent you see and you see this in
the Sermon on the Mount too though
because what Christ basically says in
The Sermon on the Mount is that you
should Orient yourself towards the
highest possible good yes both
transcendentally and communally but then
you should concentrate intently on the
moment right right and then that brings
eternity into the present moment yes do
what you can with what you have and you
have that opportunity every single day
right and that's what presents well and
I actually actually think that that is
the reality that presents itself that
what we see you're metaphor of being on
a mountain with the with the with the
easel in front of you is a metaphor that
if so you climb the mountain now you can
see everywhere right so that's a
transcendental PL place and so your
metaphoric claim in that imagery was
that if you climb to the place where you
can see everything that what presents
itself in front of you is something like
a blank canvas now you Associated that
with meaninglessness but that's a
strange Association because I would
associate that with the deepest of all
possible meanings is that you have the
ability to participate in creation
itself essentially so why do you in why
does it cuz cvus is blank and there's no
wrong answer per se well there might be
a an answer that violates the principle
of voluntary Ascent sure and it might be
that you're going to draw a painting
that looks like complete garbage right
but the point is this is an opportunity
and this is an opportunity that's
Uniquely Yours and and this is not
something to take lightly okay so but
still why meaningless like this is
tamu's word right he says life is
inherently meaningless meaning this idea
that you have to live for the sake of
society right okay I see so so you see
it you see that as a rebellion against
an arbitrary moral C essentially that's
one of his books is called The Rebel so
yes yes yeah okay okay okay so that's
right all right so I would see that as a
variant of of what the the insistence
that you should follow the spirit Spirit
instead of the Dogma you don't
substitute Dogma for Spirit correct okay
look that's a good place to end actually
and unfortunately you never said the
second thing you said there were two
things oh yes okay oh I'm sorry
yes yes AB oh sorry absolutely okay well
so so the sacrifice there has see see
the question that emerges in the Old
Testament Corpus is what's the nature of
the optimized sacrifice right and it it
is it's something like it's something
like we've discussed already it's the
sacrifice it's the ultimate sacrifice of
the narrow self to the transcendental
self and this is where I was having
trouble with ram because I wasn't sure
how she organized the transcendental
cell we've already defined like the
transcendental self is the self one of
the ways of thinking about is the self
that enables you to establish a
voluntary relationship even with
yourself across long spans of time while
simultaneously doing that with other
people who are also voluntarily doing it
right there's a pattern there and this
is why the meaningless thing got me a
bit because if there's a pattern of
voluntary Ascent that's optimal which is
what you're striving for in this
anarchism then it then that's not
meaningless it's just structured in a
very complex and sophisticated way that
can't be reduced to a simple Dogma
correct and also in terms of being
transcendental we're still talking about
her 40 years after she died so her
Mission has been accomplished right her
works and engagement right well that's
that's the thing about you know if your
work is infused with something
approximating Eternal truth right which
means that it would highlight certain
archetypal realities those would be
objective realities in her phraseology
um then it's going to last because is
part of the tradition that lasts and the
tradition that lasts is a reflection of
games that can be played iteratively
voluntarily okay okay okay so that's
even a better place to end okay you are
welcome all right all right so it turns
out that we agree that's very very
annoying I love being anoy it's my brand
all right sir very good to talk to
[Music]
you
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