Intel's Biggest Failure in Years: Confirmed Oxidation & Excessive Voltage

Summary

Intel has acknowledged oxidation and voltage issues with its 13th generation CPUs, leading to instability and potential CPU failure. The company initially downplayed the oxidation problem, only admitting it after public pressure. Tech outlets and users report high failure rates, and Intel's lack of transparency and delayed response have raised concerns. Consumers are advised to update BIOS and microcode, while those experiencing instability should consider RMA. The situation casts doubt on Intel's reliability and requires a clear commitment to customer support.

Takeaways

• 😨 Intel has admitted to oxidation issues with its 13th gen CPUs, which were initially only partially disclosed in a statement focusing on voltage issues.
• 🔍 The oxidation problem was identified during the gate formation process in the CPU manufacturing, potentially leading to corrosion and instability.
• 💻 Intel's initial public statement did not mention oxidation, only addressing voltage and microcode changes, which was seen as misleading by some.
• 🤔 The company's handling of the situation has been criticized for lack of transparency and slow response, raising questions about internal disorganization or calculated obfuscation.
• 🛠️ Intel is planning microcode and BIOS updates to address the instability issues, but the exact impact on performance is yet to be determined.
• 🚫 Intel reportedly rejected some RMAs (Return Merchandise Authorizations) for B2B and B2C CPUs during the period when they were aware of the oxidation issue, which has been deemed inexcusable.
• 📅 The exact date range of affected CPUs has not been clearly specified by Intel, leading to confusion and a call for more transparency in identifying affected products.
• 💡 Consumers are advised to update their BIOS and keep an eye out for Intel microcode changes, especially if experiencing system instability.
• 🚨 There are concerns that affected CPUs might be problematic in the used market, with sellers potentially not disclosing their instability issues.
• 🔎 Ongoing discussions and investigations are happening, with some users reporting high failure rates, indicating the severity of the issue in certain environments.

Q & A

What issue did Intel admit to regarding its 13th gen CPUs?

Intel admitted to issues with oxidation and voltage problems in its 13th gen CPUs, which could cause instability and potential chip failure.

What is the significance of the oxidation issue mentioned in the script?

The oxidation issue is significant because it's a physical hardware-level defect that occurs during the fabrication process and could lead to corrosion, instability, and eventual chip failure.

What is the role of microcode changes in addressing the CPU instability issues?

Microcode changes are part of the solution to address the instability issues caused by elevated operating voltages. These changes aim to correct the algorithm that results in incorrect voltage requests to the processor.

Why is there criticism regarding Intel's communication about the oxidation issue?

Criticism arises because Intel initially published a statement addressing only voltage issues and later appended information about the oxidation issue to a Reddit post, which seemed less transparent and potentially misleading.

What is the expected impact of the microcode and BIOS updates on affected CPUs?

The microcode and BIOS updates are expected to resolve the instability issues caused by elevated voltages. However, the long-term impact on CPUs that have been exposed to excessive voltage for a long time is uncertain and may require further evaluation.

What actions should consumers take if they own 13th or 14th gen Intel CPUs?

Consumers should update their BIOS and keep an eye out for Intel's microcode updates. If they experience any system instability, they should consider applying for an RMA.

What is the potential impact of the CPU issues on business customers like server providers?

The CPU issues can lead to server instability, which may result in significant financial damages due to players abandoning games or services, thinking the problem lies with the software rather than the hardware.

What is the 'Asus treatment' mentioned in the script referring to?

The 'Asus treatment' refers to a situation where a company must revisit and reprocess all rejected RMAs, evaluating whether customers were owed replacements based on new information or admissions about product issues.

What does the script suggest about the transparency and communication from Intel regarding the CPU issues?

The script suggests that Intel's communication has been lacking in transparency, with important information about the oxidation issue not being disclosed promptly or clearly, leading to public pressure and criticism.

What is the script's recommendation for consumers experiencing instability with their Intel CPUs?

The script recommends that consumers experiencing instability should apply for an RMA, as the potential for irreparable damage from long-term exposure to excessive voltage makes it uncertain whether updates will fully resolve issues.

What steps does Intel need to take to address the concerns raised in the script?

Intel needs to provide clear information on affected CPU date ranges, offer warranty extensions, commit to supporting customers with affected CPUs, and ensure transparency in communication about the issues and their resolution.

Outlines

00:00

😕 Intel's Oxidation and Voltage Issues Acknowledgment

Intel has admitted to oxidation and voltage issues affecting its 13th generation CPUs. Initially, the company only addressed voltage concerns in a public statement, leaving out the oxidation problem which was later mentioned in a Reddit post. This has led to speculations of disorganization or a deliberate attempt to downplay the severity. The oxidation issue is tied to the manufacturing process and cannot be resolved with a software patch, unlike the voltage issue which Intel plans to fix with a microcode update and BIOS changes from vendors. Intel's handling of the situation, including the rejection of some RMAs during the known oxidation period, has been criticized as irresponsible and lacking transparency.

05:01

😠 Lack of Transparency and Customer Support from Intel

The video script criticizes Intel for its unclear communication regarding the oxidation issue, which only came to light after significant public pressure. Intel's statements have been inconsistent, initially attributing instability solely to voltage issues, then later acknowledging a connection to oxidation in a Reddit comment. The lack of detailed support plans, such as affected CPU date ranges or warranty extensions, is highlighted as a failure to adequately address customer concerns. The community is calling for transparency, including clear communication of the extent of the issues and concrete steps to support affected customers.

10:03

😡 Contradictions and Concerns Over Intel's Oxidation Statement

Intel's statement on the oxidation issue has been criticized for its vagueness and internal contradictions. While the company confirmed a manufacturing issue with via oxidation in 2023, it failed to provide specific date codes or means to identify affected CPUs. The script points out that Intel's claim that the oxidation issue is not related to instability is directly contradicted by its own statement that a small number of instability reports are connected to the manufacturing issue. This has led to further skepticism and calls for a re-evaluation of rejected RMAs from customers who may have been unfairly denied support.

15:03

😤 High Failure Rates and the Impact on Business Customers

The script discusses the significant impact of Intel's CPU issues on business customers, such as game developers and server providers, who have reported high failure rates and instability. The potential long-term effects of the oxidation issue, which could cause permanent damage and degrade performance over time, are a major concern. The lack of awareness among users about the need for microcode updates and BIOS changes is also highlighted, emphasizing the need for active outreach from Intel to ensure all customers are informed and protected.

20:05

🚫 Recommendations and Precautions for Consumers and Intel

The script offers guidance for consumers on dealing with the Intel CPU issues, advising caution in the secondhand market and urging owners of 13th or 14th gen CPUs to update their BIOS and watch for microcode changes. For those experiencing instability, the recommendation is to apply for an RMA. The script also calls for Intel to provide clear commitments on warranty support and to avoid recommending Intel CPUs until the microcode update is released and the company provides firm assurances on customer support.

25:07

🔬 Independent Testing and Future Recommendations

The script outlines plans for independent testing of Intel CPUs under official guidance once the microcode updates are released. It states that the current stance is to avoid recommending Intel's 13th and 14th gen CPUs until the updates are verified and Intel provides clear commitments on warranty and performance. The script also hints at potential issues beyond voltage and oxidation, suggesting that motherboards and other factors may contribute to the instability, and promises to continue following the story and update the community as new information becomes available.

Keywords

💡Oxidation

Oxidation, in the context of the video, refers to a chemical reaction where a material loses electrons and bonds with oxygen. It is a critical manufacturing issue that Intel faced with its 13th generation CPUs, where oxidation of the vias occurred during the gate formation process. This issue is central to the video's theme as it discusses the impact of oxidation on CPU stability and the subsequent steps Intel took to address it.

💡Voltage Issues

Voltage Issues in this script denote problems related to the electrical potential supplied to the CPU, which can cause instability. The video discusses Intel's admission of these issues with its 13th and 14th generation processors, where an elevated operating voltage stemming from a microcode algorithm led to incorrect voltage requests, highlighting the significance of voltage regulation in maintaining CPU stability.

💡Microcode

Microcode is a layer of machine-level code used in CPUs that helps translate instructions into operations that the hardware can execute. The script mentions Intel's plan to deliver a microcode patch to address the root cause of exposure to elevated voltages, indicating the role of microcode in fixing hardware-related issues post-production.

💡BIOS

BIOS, or Basic Input/Output System, is firmware used to perform hardware initialization during the booting process. The video mentions that motherboard vendors will need to make BIOS changes in response to the instability problems, showing the interplay between hardware and software in addressing technical issues.

💡Instability

Instability, in the context of this video, refers to the unreliable or unpredictable behavior of Intel's 13th and 14th generation CPUs due to various issues, including voltage and oxidation problems. The script discusses how these instabilities can lead to system crashes and the steps needed to mitigate them.

💡RMA (Return Merchandise Authorization)

RMA is a process allowing customers to return defective products for repair, replacement, or refund. The script criticizes Intel for rejecting some RMAs during the period when they knew oxidation was a problem, emphasizing the importance of fair customer support policies in maintaining brand trust.

💡Transparency

Transparency in this video refers to the openness and communication from Intel regarding the issues with its CPUs. The script argues for the need for clear and honest communication from companies about product defects and the steps being taken to resolve them, which is crucial for consumer confidence.

💡Manufacturing Defect

A manufacturing defect is an error or flaw that occurs during the production process of a product. The script discusses the oxidation issue as a manufacturing defect that affected some early Intel Core 13th gen desktop processors, illustrating the impact of such defects on product quality and consumer experience.

💡Overclocking

Overclocking is the practice of increasing the clock rate of a computer's CPU beyond what the manufacturer specifies for operations. The video mentions the potential long-term damage caused by excessive voltage, which is particularly relevant to overclocking, as it may lead to hardware instability or failure.

💡Warranty

Warranty is a guarantee provided by manufacturers to cover repairs or replacements for defective products within a specified period. The script calls for Intel to extend warranties for affected users and to clearly define its commitment to customer support, highlighting the importance of warranty in consumer protection.

💡CPU (Central Processing Unit)

A CPU, or Central Processing Unit, is the primary component of a computer that performs most of the processing. The script revolves around issues with Intel's 13th and 14th generation CPUs, emphasizing the significance of CPU stability and reliability in computing.

Highlights

Intel admitted to oxidation issues with its 13th gen CPUs, affecting stability.

Initial Intel statement only addressed voltage issues, not oxidation.

Oxidation issue was later confirmed in a Reddit post, indicating a lack of transparency.

Oxidation occurred during the gate formation process in CPU manufacturing.

Microcode changes and motherboard BIOS updates are part of the solution to instability issues.

Intel rejected some RMAs during the period they knew about oxidation issues.

Intel's largest business customers were not made aware of the oxidation issue until 2023.

Thermaltake's Frozen Prism 360 liquid cooler is highlighted for its affordability and performance.

Intel's statement on voltage and microcode changes was criticized for omitting oxidation.

Intel's contradictory statements on oxidation's relation to instability raise concerns.

Intel failed to provide specific date codes or means to identify affected CPUs.

Users are advised to update BIOS and microcode for 13th and 14th gen CPUs.

Consumers are warned about the potential toxicity of affected CPUs in the used market.

Intel's commitment to customer support is questioned due to lack of clarity and action.

The oxidation issue is resolvable at the fabrication level, but the extent of the problem is unknown.

Long-term exposure to excessive voltage can cause irreparable damage to CPUs.

Microcode and BIOS updates may resolve voltage-related instability issues.

Intel's handling of the situation is described as irresponsible and lacking transparency.

Recommendations include applying for an RMA if experiencing instability, and avoiding 13th and 14th gen CPUs until further notice.

Transcripts

questions about manufacturing or via

oxidation as reported by Tech Outlets

thanks

Steve Intel just admitted oxidation

issues with its 13th gen CPUs but this

only comes after first publishing a half

complete statement addressing only the

voltage issues that means the media gets

to run with the voltage story while

Intel could then append the oxidation

issue to a Reddit post after people

already went depressed with the voltage

issues options for this strange series

of choices might include things like

General disorganization within the

company of how to deal with this Panic

uh General incompetence or and we can't

speak to the motive but maybe something

more calculated in my opinion now if

you're not familiar with that latest

revelation of oxidation we broke the

story on possible oxidation of the vas

within the CPU occurring during gate

formation process and began talks with

the failure analysis lab inel has now

officially confirmed that oxid was at

one point a problem but it's not the

only one this comes alongside a

notification from Intel of micro code

changes and this uh will also bear with

it some Motherboard BIOS changes from

the motherboard vendors and so the two

of these in combination are part of the

instability problem so speaking with

Wendell uh it's possible there's other

aspects of the instability of Intel CPUs

as well but it seems like these are the

two that at least Intel's addressing

right now uh now somewhat disgustingly

uh from my viewpoint Intel rejected at

least some rmas for B2B and some B Toc

CPUs During the period at which they

knew oxidation was a problem but from

everything we've uh heard from our

contacts before the contacts the

business partners were aware of the

oxidation problem so this period is

critical because if there's any rejected

rmas when Intel knows about it but the

partners don't it's it's really just

inexcusable it's the Asus treatment

where the company must revisit all the

rejected rmas and it needs to reprocess

them to evaluate whether those customers

were actually owed Replacements with

everything that Intel knows today that

includes the voltage problems and that

includes the oxidation issues and this

is just Frankly Speaking this is int's

biggest up that I have personally

reported on uh in the 16 years or so

that we've been doing this and the

company is it's behaving

irresponsibly it is slow for an issue

that's important and requires confidence

in what support is being provided to

customers not just a blanket statement

of we're committed to supporting our

customers whatever that means but

something actually firm written down to

what those commitments are and that

includes business customers as well but

speaking to the business customers so

Intel's largest ones like big oems were

not made aware of the oxidation issue

until just this year and this something

that Intel said was in 2023 that it was

happening so if that's the case

then just I don't I don't really it just

looks bad to be the most charitable

possible with that uh or like a coverup

but let's get into it before that this

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our testing this works on both AMD and

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today so Intel posted a statement

claiming only the voltage and micro code

changes initially this is what it said

based on extensive analys of Intel Core

13th and 14th gen desktop processors

returned to us due to instability issues

we have determined that elevated

operating voltage is causing instability

issues in some 13th and 14th gen desktop

Parts our analysis of returned

processors confirms that the elevated

operating voltage is stemming from a

micr code algorithm resulting in

incorrect voltage request to the

processor Intel is delivering a micro

code patch which addresses the root

cause of exposure to elevated voltages

We are continuing validation to ensure

that scenarios of inst stability

reported to Intel regarding core 13th

and 14th gen desktop processors are

addressed Intel is currently targeting

mid August for patch release to Partners

following full validation the statement

concludes with this quote Intel is

committed to making this right with our

customers and we continue asking any

customers currently experiencing

instability issues on their core 13th

and 14th gen desktop processors to reach

out to Intel customer support for

further assistance now this statement

said nothing of oxidation it was fully

focused on micro code and access voltage

uh oxidation is a physical Hardware

level defect it would not be fixable in

micro code it's something that happens

during the fabrication process so any

chips that were affected by oxidation of

the veds are likely going to be uh

subject to corrosion and potentially

instability as a result of that

corrosion and maybe eventual chip

failure because it's not something you

can just patch out the lack of a comet

on oxidation combined with the clear

language where they said they root

caused it to voltage it makes it sound

like oxidation was not part of the story

and that it was fully voltage which is

unintentionally at best misleading or uh

again deliberately misleading and

manipulative so we're not sure what it

is I I can't speak to their motive but

certainly I have some opinions and it

again just does not look good it is not

congruent with a company that uh wants

the transparency of these issues Intel

statement also completely fails to say

how exactly they are going to support

customers dropping the ball on every

single possible level the community

needs the transparency on what quote

committed to making this right with our

customers actually means because that

means all at this point and there's

a problem where these companies like to

put out statements about we're going to

support and make it right and whatever

but without a hard commitment of what

that means active Outreach to people uh

actually have a list for Intel so we'll

make this easy Intel here's the road map

that I'd like to see uh first of all the

affected date range of the CPUs has to

be out there and if it's not fully known

with certainty what's affected at least

a suspected date range where if it's in

this date that you bought it or it was

manufactured via the manufacturer code

then possibly it is affected so for the

voltage and the micro code problem that

might mean effectively all of them we

don't know for the oxidation problem

there is a specific window before Intel

fixed it and I will talk about this

later but the good thing with the

oxidation problem is any manufacturing

level defect is something that once it's

fixed it should just be fixed and

permanently so for everything made after

that so it's in a it's a really bad

problem in the sense that it's a

hardware level defect it'll affect

everything potentially um and there may

be uncertain certainty as to which ones

got through without that problem and

which ones got through with it but it's

a good thing in the sense that once it's

resolved it's resolved so they need to

have an effective date range of CPUs for

both of these they need to have a serial

number range or lookup tool inel has

tools on its website for warranty

services you can type in some characters

on the CPU lid and get information about

the warranty they should apply that to

this and make it that you could type it

in and it spits out a you might be

affected or you are not affected and

maybe that simple maybe they can't

confirm it's affected but at least

saying maybe and no would help a lot and

ease some anxiety for customers uh we'd

also like to see a commitment to

warranty extensions offered to users of

CPS affected and a commitment to

warranty extensions for users who

experience degradation likewise if the

micro code changes affect performance in

any capacity we would expect an offer of

a full refund because if you're buying

something that doesn't perform as it was

reviewed and advertised then that's just

fair at this time however I really want

to emphasize this we don't know if

there's going to be a performance change

uh it's possible that can affect the

voltage tables without changing anything

for the actual CPU performance but we'll

really need to to see and independently

validate that one of the concerns I have

here is if users are unaware of these

micro code changes and unaware of the

need to update BIOS you know most users

they kind of buy or build their system

and then ignore all of this stuff and go

on on with their lives and that's

probably a good way to do things but

those people will not be informed on

this issue which is uh unfortunate

because this is something where if

they're being their CP is being exposed

to excessive voltage uh it will over

time potentially exhibit this

instability and maybe just stop working

at the the spec that it's set for so

what we'd like to see is some kind of

active Outreach uh and options for that

might include going through motherboard

Partners going through Retail Partners

posting on social media making sure the

Press is aware of this which includes

transparency and all these other things

we talk about to make sure everyone's

aware of it so that Intel can minimize

its liability and minimize its legal

exposure to the extent possible long

term by trying to get in front of these

failures by notifying everyone back to

the statement though like we said it

said nothing of oxidation in fact it

said that it had identified the root

cause of stability as being excessive

voltage related to it but it did update

its statement on Reddit where it's

common are more likely to go under the

radar for investors and media I didn't

see it until someone sent it to me

here's what it said quote so that you

don't have to hunt down the answer

questions about manufacturing or via

oxidation as reported by Tech Outlets

thanks Steve quote short answer we can

confirm there was a via oxidation

manufacturing issue addressed back in

2023 but it is not related to the

instability issue first this is just

more unclear language from Intel back in

2023 is an incredible ly wide range uh

in fact you might say it's almost about

a year and that's a that's a huge amount

of time be nice to actually know what

that range was Intel failed to provide

any date codes any means to identify

potentially affected CPUs again it might

not have affected all of them that went

through it but we don't know and that's

the point of the transparency so while

it's good that they've confirmed this

publicly for the first time and really

just within days of it becoming a public

pressure issue it's unfortunate that it

took a year to do so and they also once

again failed to provide any means to

actually do something with this

information as a consumer so uh Intel

continued with this quote lawn answer we

can confirm that the Via oxidation

manufacturing issues affected some early

Intel Core 13th gen desktop processors

however the issue was root caused and

addressed with manufacturing

improvements and screens in 2023 we've

also looked at it from the instability

reports on Intel Core 13th gen desktop

processors and the analysis to date has

determined that only a small number of

instability reports can be connected to

the manufacturing issue for the

instability issue we are delivering a

micro code patch which addresses

exposure to elevated voltages which is a

key element of the instability issue we

are currently validating the biker code

patch to ensure the instability issues

for the 13th and 14th gen are addressed

so if you didn't catch it Intel is

contradicting itself in these statements

with some slippery phrasing uh in

Intel's first statement it attributed

the root cause only to voltage and it

pointed to a solution as a micro code

update in Intel's short answer version

of that Reddit comment it said quote it

is not related to the instability issue

referring to oxidation uh but its lawn

answer which was in the same comment

said quote only a small number of

instability reports can be connected to

the manufacturing issue again relating

to oxidation so these are in congruent

with each other because they are

absolute statements it is not connected

and then only some of them are connected

the only Su wipes out that it is not

obviously so that means it is at least

somewhat related to the instability

issue uh and then of course the

excessive voltage is one that that path

everyone's kind of been on for months

now at this point alongside the power

behav pl1 pl2 actually were before the

voltage discussion uh so the power side

of things was kind of the one that

seemed like the really it's likely

there's a problem here because Intel has

been pushing the power so high and

running too close to the limit uh but

the oxid a separate issue that appears

to have at least affected some of them

for instability according to Intel again

we don't know how many the contact we

had in our previous PS assumed that they

would have a range of 10 to 25% uh

affected by instability that they

thought might be attributable to the

oxidation issue and a company that size

the scale is in the hundreds of

thousands to potentially millions of

processors so we're not sure how big a

small number is it's possible whatever

they had going on with instability

issues was related to oxid

at a a lower percentage and the voltage

on the other problems but either way uh

Intel immediately faced some pressure in

the Reddit post Matt of Aldon games

asked this quote any ideas on why we had

server providers who ran into faulty

CPUs in 2023 get rejected around the

time you mentioned the oxidation

manufacturing issue after 2 years of

being handed rejected rmas contacting

customer support again and H to not get

rejected again is getting quite annoying

and this is really bad this is why Intel

has to go back in time and re-evaluate

all the rmas from this period uh kind of

like Asus just did and start rectifying

those situations especially now that

they've admitted they knew there were

problems uh back then they knew the

oxidation was a thing in 2023 just wrote

it and then voltage they at least

publicly say they know about as of a

couple days ago so this is something

that has to be rectified for customers

who were unfairly rejected for claims

and that is not something Intel has uh

put in its commitment to support

customers additionally Dylan Brown

Unreal Engine supervisor at model Farm

wrote this quote for anyone curious at

work our failure rate for our 13900 K

and 14900 K machines is about 50% so far

any new machine builds going to be uh

9950 X's production environments need

reliability end quote Wendell asked

Dylan Brown for more information on

things like motherboards effected to

which Brown responded with this quote

fairly sure most are Rog ones they

haven't fully failed but exhibit the

instability even when lowering power

limits haven't tested new bioses yet we

first noticed the instability crashes

that appeared to be GPU related but

swapping gpus didn't seem to help

finally clicked when the news started

coming out about this issue and made

much more sense at the time we tried

reducing the power limits and such which

didn't really help we have many

identical machine builds and some were

completely fine While others were

extremely unstable so that's another

note for this approximately 50%

instability issue uh that pops up now

there's a lot of sampling bias here it's

possible that there are other problems

at play too which I only soften because

50% is such an enormous percentage that

it it seems unfathomable but that is now

multiple groups that have said a number

like that are close to it Wendell when

he presented his uh one server client

who had a claimed approximate 50%

instability failure rate softened it by

saying that he thought maybe half of

those would be recoverable that might be

with something like micro code and so

that would bring it down to say 25%

either way very large numbers I mean

even really anything over one is an

enormous percentage for failure rate of

something like a CPU uh so we would

believe that a lot of the instability is

recoverable with the micro code update

and with the BIOS updates the concerns I

have are more longterm like for ones

that have been running for a while it

may have some kind of permanent damage

uh and just obviously you for these B2B

customers especially game developers and

Publishers where you have server

providers who have difficulty with

server stability players get pissed off

you have maybe hundreds of thousands of

dollars in Damages from players

abandoning the game uh thinking that

it's the game's fault the programmer uh

who built the net code whatever it is

these are Big costs that are thanks to

Intel back to you Steve all right back

to the statement so also note Intel did

not name the 14th gen for CPUs that

thinks were affected by oxidation and in

that Reddit post the Intel employee who

was commenting seemed to effectively

explicitly state that it was a 13th gen

issue that was resolved there now our

source for the oxidation story gave us a

list of only 13th gen CPUs if you're put

that back up on the screen uh from the

last one the source was as we said at

the time concerned it might affect 14th

gen but the list that they had was 133

only I think it was 11 CPUs so seems

like 14th gen is at least affected by

micro code and voltage issues but may be

clear of the oxidation issues this is a

huge problem for Intel we appreciate

that they finally disclosed what's going

on at some level it's not enough but

it's better than complete silence it did

take immense public pressure to finally

get them to an answer it was bad enough

that large customers of Intel were

starting to leak to us information about

how bad it was because they didn't feel

like they were getting the support they

needed if you think about that really

how big of a statement that is for for

these huge customers and I say huge I

mean like not Asus and MSI but bigger

than those if they start contacting

media uh there's really only a few

reasons that'll happen of course you've

always got the one where someone might

just want to be involved in some big

Story Rex Bose we try to filter that as

best we can but typically what it comes

down to is uh it is best for every

business in the relationship so that'd

be in telling their Partners to just

stay quiet and fix it quietly so that

neither one of them affects the

confidence and the product that's being

sold whether that's the customer using

an Intel product or Intel itself and so

if it eventually does get out to Media

uh that is indicative of maybe how big

the problem is so uh the oxidation issue

to come back to that one is good in the

sense that it is resolvable in kind of

one swoop where uh it is a Fab level

change as far as I understand it's kind

of binary it's either fixed or it's

problematic and Intel says it's fixed

it's concerning of course we don't know

how wide reaching it is but at least

that one's probably resulted uh our

failure analysis lab sources have

indicated it's possible for oxidation of

the vas to cause additional problems

with time or worsen the stability with

time and create longer term failures

we'll have to keep an eye out for that

as for the lab we have at least one CPU

where we've pinpointed the region of the

CPU that is problematic uh we're not

sure if it's a voltage thing or if it's

an oxidation thing we're going to send

that out to them I have not fully locked

in that contract yet uh so it's not

guaranteed we're going to have an fa

report they're going to need to get me a

cost C estimate but we're going to still

try and do one at this point though

would just be academic and to learn

because Intel's already confirmed the

problem so it's not a mystery anymore

but it still be cool just to try to

understand understand the scope of it

and get some educational material for us

and for you all right what's next so uh

here are the immediate items for

consumers to know this is the part that

you should care about these CPUs might

be toxic on the used Market it's kind of

an interesting point but you should be

careful to check with sellers that they

are stable and not being sold because

they're unstable and remember that

seller might lie to you especially ones

on the internet you don't know so that's

a great accidental way to reduce

secondhand competition for new chips for

Intel and AMD but if you're a buyer of

secondhand you need to be careful uh two

if you own any 13th or 14th gen CPUs you

should immediately update the BIOS and

you should keep an eye out for Intel

micro code changes Intel said that this

will be in August so these can be pushed

a few different ways but a bios update

let's say late August should effectively

guarantee been applied and you can check

your motherboard manufacturers bios

notes to see if they explicitly address

it to give you some confidence uh three

If you experience any system instability

at all and you have been using the CPU

for a little while and you have no

reason to suspect it's some other

problem like malware or whatever then

our guidance gn's guidance would be to

immediately apply for an RMA even if you

think it might be Windows you really

don't want to be caught with a degraded

chip uh and Intel should be responsible

for its mess anyway so if they replace

excessive CPUs then that's their own

fault as a recap of the problems here's

kind of an FAQ based on some of the

comments we've seen on the internet the

last few days so uh one oxidation that

is a physical issue it can't be fixed

with micro code two the oxidation can

lead to instability and failure three

CPU should no longer have this problem

as it would have been resolved at the

Fab level and it would not persist once

fixed four Intel indicates that the 14th

series is unaffected by this and then

some FAQ for the voltage issues so first

of all long-term excessive can cause

irreparable damage typically this would

manifest as the inability to maintain

the same clocks at the same voltages so

uh overclocking is my best example of

this is the only real area I've seen

this applicable but in the OC world the

fix would be to reduce the clocks uh or

you'd have to pump the voltage more to

maintain the same clocks and this is

just one type of that kind of failure

I'm sure there can be other types but in

that manifestation of it it ends up

being sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy

of degradation so the better move would

be to reduce both uh for new CPUs or

those which have not been exposed to

excessive voltage for long periods micro

code and a bios update should

theoretically resolve all of these

concerns and if you haven't used your

CPU much and you don't see any

instability we'd recommend just applying

the BIOS and the micro code updates uh

mid August to let's say late August

maybe do it again just in case they make

a change and then move on because if you

don't think you're affected because you

don't see instability It's relatively

new hasn't had a lot of uptime then just

you know my I I don't want people like

feeling this constant anxiety about it

so make a decision move on and apply the

updates move on hopefully it doesn't

affect you or I guess dump the part

return it if you can if that's how you

feel uh But whichever one it is if it's

a new part and it hasn't seen a lot of

use I would say just either apply the

updates and move on and forget about it

or get rid of it uh for CPUs which are

already experiencing instability micro

code and bios updates May resolve it or

they may at least

help uh if they resolve it I still you

know we we have a certain level of

responsibility a lot of people watch

these videos a lot of people buy parts

make decisions based on what we say and

for that reason I have to air on the

side of caution with this where uh I I

don't feel confident or comfortable

saying that it would stop any future

instability if you have already had

signs of some level of degradation or

instability it's possible you just have

instability without degradation but I

can't know that realistically you can't

either and so my blanket recommendation

there would be an RMA and just get a new

one and uh and apply them if they're not

you know apply the BIOS update and then

move forward from there that way you

just it's kind of out of your mind

that's how I would operate because I'd

want to just have the confidence that

okay this is this should be about as

resulted as it can reasonably be

resolved I am moving on with my life

that's how I'd approach it so that's all

I can really recommend

um you know I don't want to appear like

I'm being uh overly concerned about it

but again if you're experiencing any

instability that appears maybe CP

related that's just that's my personal

approach to it so take that for what you

want all right for testing our plan is

to Benchmark them under the still the

same Intel official guidance for pl1 and

pl2 Intel is indicating August for the

micro code updates unfortunately this is

after the Zen 5 reviews that means that

I I don't really care what Intel says I

don't care if they say there's no impact

performance we still need to

independently verify it so uh and to be

clear at this time we're filming they

haven't made a commitment as to if it

affects performance or not so we're

going to test them with the official

guidance but we can't evaluate the micro

code until it ships so we're going to

have to revisit it in August and see how

it is then because of all of that our

blanket statement right now is an

avoidance of recommending any intel 13th

and 14th gen

CPUs once the micro code update goes out

we can retest for differences and we'll

also need to see some firm commitments

from Intel as to what specifically

committed to supporting their customers

means when we get those things uh

hopefully a lack of performance changes

and then hopefully some firm commitments

on the warranty we will reconsider The

Stance of whether or not we can

comfortably recommend Intel CPUs uh and

we'll let you all know as soon as that

stance changes it' be the first thing I

say in a hardware news episode or

something so finally this voltage issue

does not describe all instability we

think there's more to it likely that

comes with uh motherboards as well doing

some of their own screwy things there's

probably a lot of things in this problem

and uh some chips that Wendell has have

not been he thinks exposed to excessive

voltage but are still uh unstable so

it's possible it's the oxidation issue

for some of those 13th gen ones uh but

it could be something else entirely so

we'll continue to follow the story think

that's kind of it for now it's a mess

it's a big mess for inal it's a huge

problem you know the Fab level defect is

both good and bad it's bad because it

happened it's good because it's fixable

relatively uh in a relatively binary way

as far as I understand I don't know

anything about manufacturing but that's

my understanding of it and um I'd say

that's that's about it so Zen 5 reviews

coming soon Intel will be on the charts

but uh we'll revisit this in August with

micro code and that's it for this one

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