Curriculum - Design a Photo App for the Blind

Summary

In this mock product manager interview, Eliza discusses designing a family photo-sharing app inclusive of visually impaired members. She emphasizes the importance of user engagement for both elderly and younger family members, suggesting features like audio memos, voice commands, and progress indicators to ensure the app is accessible and engaging. The conversation highlights empathy in product design and the need for a strong feedback loop to measure success through utilization and satisfaction.

Takeaways

• 😀 The interview is a mock PM interview with Eliza La Joy, a product manager with experience in ed tech startups and currently at Stanford Business School.
• 👥 The task is to design a family-wide photo-sharing app with consideration for a vision-impaired family member, possibly an elderly grandparent.
• 🏠 The family in question is a small family located in the United States, with varying degrees of interaction among members.
• 👓 The vision-impaired person is characterized as having a full, lifelong impairment and is likely an elderly member of the family.
• 🤔 The interviewee considers different user personas based on the level of involvement and interaction the elderly person has with the family.
• 📱 The app aims to make the vision-impaired person feel involved and present in the family's day-to-day life and major events.
• 🔍 The design process involves considering logistics, the experience of using the app for the elderly, and how they can engage back with the family.
• 🎙️ The app could utilize voice commands, audio memos, and sound clips to enhance the photo-sharing experience for the vision-impaired user.
• 👶 For younger family members, the app should be easy to use and integrate with existing social media platforms to encourage regular content sharing.
• 🔗 A feedback loop is crucial to ensure that younger family members are aware of the elderly user's engagement and to address any difficulties they may have.
• 📈 Success metrics for the app would focus on sustained engagement from both the elderly user and the younger family members who provide content.

Q & A

What is the main challenge the product manager is trying to address with the family-wide photo sharing app?

The main challenge is designing a photo sharing app that is inclusive and accessible for a family member who is vision impaired, ensuring they can actively participate and feel included in the family's shared experiences.

What is Eliza's background, and how does it relate to the product manager role?

Eliza has a background in working with ed tech startups, including being a product manager and leading a team at Mentor Collective. This experience in product management and understanding user needs is directly relevant to the role of a product manager.

What are the three different user personas considered for the family-wide photo sharing app?

The three user personas are: 1) a grandparent with day-to-day involvement in the family's life, 2) a grandparent with periodic in-person interactions during holidays or special events, and 3) a grandparent who is geographically distant or unable to meet the family in person due to various reasons such as the pandemic.

How does the interviewee suggest making the app accessible for a vision-impaired elderly person?

The interviewee suggests focusing on auditory aspects, such as voice commands, audio feedback, and sound clips accompanying photos to create a more engaging and accessible experience for a vision-impaired user.

What is the importance of the younger family members in the context of this app?

The younger family members are crucial as they are likely to be the ones uploading and sharing photos, as well as potentially being the decision-makers when it comes to choosing and using the app for the elderly family member.

What are some of the logistical considerations for the app to be user-friendly for a vision-impaired person?

Logistical considerations include setting up the app with ease, using voice commands, and organizing a simple workflow that allows the elderly user to quickly access and engage with the shared photos and moments.

How can the app enrich the experience of the elderly user beyond just viewing photos?

The app can enrich the experience by incorporating voice memos recorded during significant moments, casual ambient sound clips from everyday life, and allowing the elderly user to react and engage with the content through verbal comments or audio emojis.

What are some potential success metrics for the app?

Success metrics could include the frequency of use by both the elderly and younger users, the satisfaction level of the elderly user, and whether the app is being used consistently over time, especially around key family milestones.

How can the app ensure a two-way engagement between the elderly user and the rest of the family?

The app can ensure two-way engagement by allowing the elderly user to respond to shared content with verbal reactions, and by providing feedback to the younger users about the elderly user's engagement and interactions within the app.

What is the significance of integrating the app with existing social media platforms?

Integrating the app with existing social media platforms can help mitigate the risk of insufficient content being shared within the app by allowing users to easily share content from other platforms, thus ensuring there is always something for the elderly user to engage with.

How does the interviewee reflect on their own performance during the mock interview?

The interviewee reflects that they may have focused more on the elderly user persona and could have balanced the discussion more by considering the younger user persona as well. They also acknowledge the importance of summarizing key points during the discussion to ensure clarity.

Outlines

00:00

🤔 Introduction to Designing an Inclusive Photo Sharing App

Eliza, a product manager with experience in ed tech startups, discusses the challenge of designing a family-wide photo sharing app that is inclusive of a vision-impaired family member. She emphasizes the importance of understanding the family dynamics, the extent of the vision impairment, and the role of the vision-impaired individual within the family. The conversation highlights the need to create an app that fosters involvement and connection, regardless of the frequency of in-person interactions.

05:00

👵 Considering the Elderly and Vision-Impaired User Experience

The discussion delves into three distinct user scenarios: daily involvement, periodic visits, and minimal in-person interaction due to distance or mobility issues. Eliza chooses to focus on the third scenario, where the elderly vision-impaired person is most separated from the family. The goal is to make the elderly person feel as involved and present as possible, using the app to share life moments and maintain emotional connections.

10:02

📸 Envisioning the Photo Sharing Experience for the Visually Impaired

Eliza outlines the importance of the elderly vision-impaired person's ability to share their own experiences and enjoy family photos. She suggests using sound clips to accompany images, capturing both momentous occasions and everyday moments, to enrich the user's experience. The aim is to create an app that allows the elderly user to feel included and engaged with their family's life events.

15:02

🔊 Leveraging Sound to Enhance Visual Content

The conversation explores the use of sound to make the photo sharing experience more personal and engaging for the vision-impaired user. Ideas include voice memos recorded during significant moments and ambient sound clips to provide a sense of presence in everyday situations. The goal is to create an auditory experience that complements the visual content and allows the user to feel connected to their family's activities.

20:03

👶 Catering to Younger Users to Ensure Content Flow

Eliza considers the perspective of younger family members who will be the primary content contributors to the app. She suggests providing a user-friendly interface with voice commands and audio cues to facilitate easy sharing of photos and sound clips. Additionally, a progress indicator is proposed to show how the elderly user is engaging with the content, creating a feedback loop to ensure a smooth user experience for all family members.

25:04

🔄 Fostering Two-Way Interaction Through Audio Responses

The discussion moves to how the elderly user can actively participate in the app by reacting to shared content. Eliza proposes the use of verbal comments, automatic recording of real-time reactions, and audio emojis as ways for the elderly user to express their feelings and engage in a two-way conversation with their family members.

30:05

📈 Measuring Success Through User Engagement and Satisfaction

Eliza concludes by emphasizing the importance of measuring success through utilization and satisfaction of both the elderly user and the younger family members who contribute content. She suggests monitoring how often the elderly user engages with the app and how frequently younger users share content, ensuring that the app remains a valuable tool for maintaining family connections.

🌟 Reflecting on the Interview and Identifying Areas for Improvement

In the final part of the script, Eliza reflects on her performance, acknowledging a tendency to focus deeply on certain aspects while potentially neglecting others. She notes the importance of balancing the needs and experiences of both the elderly vision-impaired user and the younger family members who will be using the app. The interviewer provides feedback, commending Eliza's empathy and ability to consider the user's perspective, while also suggesting the inclusion of guardrail metrics for a more comprehensive approach.

Keywords

💡Product Manager

A product manager is a professional responsible for the vision, strategy, planning, and marketing of a product, ensuring it meets customer needs and business goals. In the video, Eliza introduces herself as a product manager, indicating her role in guiding the development of products and services, such as the hypothetical family-wide photo-sharing app discussed in the interview.

💡Ed Tech Startups

Ed Tech, short for educational technology, refers to startups that focus on developing technology solutions for the education sector. Eliza mentions her experience working in two different Ed Tech startups, highlighting her background in creating products that aim to improve educational experiences and outcomes.

💡Mentor Collective

Mentor Collective is a company that Eliza mentions she worked for, which partners with colleges to build mentorship programs. This company exemplifies the type of innovative Ed Tech solutions that Eliza has experience with, focusing on enhancing student retention and graduation rates through structured mentorship.

💡Photo Sharing App

A photo sharing app is a type of software application that allows users to share digital photos with others. The central theme of the video revolves around designing such an app with considerations for a vision-impaired family member, emphasizing the need for inclusivity and accessibility in product design.

💡Visual Impairment

Visual impairment refers to a decrease in vision that cannot be corrected with standard glasses or contact lenses. The video discusses designing a photo-sharing app with a vision-impaired user in mind, exploring how to make the app accessible and engaging for someone with full visual impairment.

💡User Personas

User personas are fictional characters created to represent the different user groups of a product or service. In the script, Eliza discusses creating user personas to understand the needs of both the elderly vision-impaired person and the younger family members who would also use the app.

💡Accessibility

Accessibility in technology refers to the design of products, devices, services, or environments for people with disabilities. The video's theme of designing an app for a vision-impaired person underscores the importance of accessibility features that allow for equal use and enjoyment of the app.

💡Screen Readers

Screen readers are software applications that convert text displayed on a computer screen to synthesized speech or blind users. The script mentions screen readers as one of the technologies that could be used by the vision-impaired user to interact with the photo-sharing app.

💡Braille Keyboards

Braille keyboards are input devices used by visually impaired individuals that allow them to type using Braille characters. The script suggests that the app should be compatible with such technologies to enhance the user experience for the vision-impaired.

💡Engagement

In the context of the video, engagement refers to how users interact with the app and each other through it. Eliza discusses the importance of creating an engaging experience for the elderly vision-impaired user, ensuring they can actively participate in sharing and responding to photos.

💡Utilization

Utilization, in the context of the video, refers to the extent to which the app is used by both the elderly vision-impaired user and the younger family members. It is a key metric for measuring the success of the app in achieving its goal of inclusive photo sharing.

Highlights

Designing a family-wide photo sharing app with a focus on inclusivity for vision-impaired family members.

Understanding the different user personas within the family, including the vision-impaired elderly and their level of interaction with the family.

Considering the elderly vision-impaired person's goal of feeling involved and present in the family's day-to-day life.

The importance of creating a feedback loop to ease anxieties of younger family members about the elderly relative's engagement with the app.

Utilizing voice commands and audio cues to make the app accessible and user-friendly for the vision-impaired.

Incorporating sound clips and voice memos to accompany photos, providing a richer auditory experience.

Designing the app to be simple and focused, avoiding the clutter and distractions found in typical social media platforms.

Ensuring the app allows the elderly user to participate actively, not just be a passive observer.

Using automatic recording of real-time reactions to allow the elderly user to engage more naturally.

Integrating the app with existing social media to prevent content duplication and increase the likelihood of use.

Creating a system where younger family members are nudged to capture and share casual moments, not just momentous occasions.

Allowing the elderly user to send verbal comments or reactions back to the family, fostering a two-way interaction.

The concept of 'audio emojis' as a novel way for the elderly user to express reactions and emotions.

Measuring success through utilization and satisfaction of both the elderly user and the younger family members who are the app's decision-makers.

Ensuring the app is easy to set up and use for the elderly, with a focus on auditory guidance and simplicity.

Reflecting on the balance between the needs of the elderly user and the younger family members who may be the primary content contributors.

The interviewee's self-reflection on the importance of empathy and understanding the user's perspective when designing the app.

Transcripts

how you might design a family-wide

photo sharing app if someone in the

family was

vision impaired

hey everyone i'm kevin way i'm a product

manager

at ibm data and ai today we have a mock

pm interview with eliza la joy and

before we jump into today's question

eliza can you tell us a little bit about

yourself

um so i am a sort of a startup person

through and through i've been working in

uh two different ed tech startups over

the last seven years uh most recently

as a as a product manager a couple years

as a solo pm

and then a couple of years building and

leading the team at a company called

mentor collective

which partners with colleges to help

them build mentorship programs that

balance sort of depth and breadth and

help the schools retain and graduate

their students

more effectively i've also done tons of

interviews on the interviewer

seat um we went through a big hiring

push at inventor collective and we

started to grow and so i thought a lot

about how to

assess pms and and and talk to them and

make sure that you're hiring some with

good

product sense um right now i'm at

stanford business school the gsb

um and uh it's starting to do some of my

own uh interviews for

uh internships here and um and yeah

that's me

awesome well we're super excited to have

you and today we're gonna be doing

a product sense type question so

for this question i'd like you to tell

me how you might design a

family-wide photo sharing app if someone

in the family

was vision impaired absolutely um a

really interesting question

i'd like to start then just by asking a

little bit for a little bit more context

if you're able to share it

um first a little more about the family

um do we know anything else about them

in terms of of the size and sort of

sprawl

like is this a small nuclear family a

larger

extended one do we know where they're

located is there anything else you can

tell me on that front

yeah so let's say that they're just a

small family in the united states

awesome

um so then just a couple other quick

things

um with regards to the visually impaired

person do we have more details about

their impairment is this full

visual impairment partial is it a

lifelong thing or something that's

recently

become part of their life let's say that

they were a

lifelong impaired person and it's a full

impairment makes sense

and my last question um this this person

the visually impaired person are do we

know if they're elderly like a

grandparent

type member of the family or or a

younger member

i'll leave it up to you okay okay that's

helpful

all right do you mind kevin if i take

just one minute i'm going to take about

30 seconds to take down a few notes

yeah go ahead cool thanks

cool so um since you you left it up to

me

about um sort of age uh range for

for the user in question i'm gonna think

about this from the perspective of an

elderly family member

maybe a grandparent um since i suspected

that's a pretty common angle

for this um and i think it's something

that i can

we can really make a difference in the

experience of that

that family arrangement and all of us

will experience that you know that

that role or you know some role of being

an elderly user and so i think that

makes sense to consider

so first i'm just going to think a

little bit more though about what are

the different

users that we might think about when

building this photo sharing

app um it's an interesting one because

i'm thinking about the visually impaired

elderly user the second sort of

secondary or other users are important

here like i think often with

um a tool that's helping grandparents we

might be actually sort of selling or

targeting

uh their children or their grandchildren

who might be more sort of receptive to

new technology or just you know looking

for those

even if the the grandparent might be the

one actually using a lot of that

technology so i really want to keep

the sort of web of users in mind here

it's almost like a b to b to c

like uh you know product to the to the

uh younger users to the older users

um so i think i have kind of three

different

ways like ways to think about these

users that we maybe could pick from

um the first and they're all kind of

defined by like the involvement that the

elderly user might have with the rest of

the family unit

so i know that often you know there's

one case where the grandparent

uh might be involved in the day-to-day

life of the rest of the family this

might be a grandparent who's raising

their grandchildren or someone who's

living in a multi-generational

household or is otherwise very involved

in the day-to-day activities with the

rest of the family maybe bringing that

grandchildren to school you know

attending different life events and

everyone's really participating in each

other's lives

in person um a second case might be kind

of

uh they're not there the engagement is

not happening all the time but it might

be an elderly

person or grandparent who comes to visit

periodically or there's like regular

in-person

touch points between these different

parts of the family um

and that may be kind of the cornerstones

around which these people are engaging

with each other like a holiday a

birthday

things like this but in between those

they don't see each other and that's

where

something like a photo sharing app could

be particularly important

um and then the third of the three that

occurs to me

is a case um that's sort of familiar to

my own heart and i think to a lot of

people right now

which is where the grandparent um and

the family

the rest of the family are not able to

see each other very much

or at all um either because of mobility

uh

challenges or just distance or pandemics

um you know whatever it is that makes it

difficult for people to make it to each

other in real life

um so there's really very little or no

in-person interactions between the

elderly in this case the

elderly visually impaired person and

their close family members which is a

obviously a really

tough i think situation for a lot of

families um

so i'm thinking about these three sort

of um you know the first case again

being

uh day-to-day involvement like the

everybody's in each other's lives very

actively

the second case there's like a middle

ground there's some active in-person

involvement

um and otherwise there's distance and

then the third case is the most separate

um where the the grandparent or other

you know elderly users is further away

and not able to to be there in person

with their loved ones

um do those do those user groups make

sense

um so these sound kind of like scenarios

where

depending on how much interaction these

users have amongst each other

and um how would you characterize

the goal of the elderly person that

we're designing for

yeah so i think it depends on which of

those uh sort of like

user personas i choose um i think

across all of them though my hypothesis

and so i'm likely going to just to

choose one of those and zero in a little

bit more but i think across all of them

i would hypothesize that the goal of the

of the grandparent as well as other

families to be as involved with each

other as possible to sort of

feel present to be aware of both the big

moments and the milestones as well as

sort of the minutia

and the day-to-day of of those people's

uh

lives and i think that's not only to

feel involved and to feel that

emotional connection but maybe also to

uh to share it with your friends if

you're in for example a retirement

community

um to sort of share that and to to tell

your friends about what your

you know your grandchildren are doing or

things like this so just really having

not only an

enjoyment for yourself but access that

information um

to share it and to show it off and to

kind of make it active part of your own

of your own life yeah i like that so it

sounds like

we're we want to target it doesn't

really matter if the elderly person has

you know only holiday touch points or if

they're only

able to see the their family members or

maybe not so often due to the pandemic

it doesn't really matter what sort of

level of

internet interaction they have there but

it sounds like we want to

take those people and create an

experience

where they can be as involved with the

family as possible

exactly and and if you're up for it you

know i'd love to focus in

on the the third sort of persona that i

touched on which is the most

separate folks i think that's where the

biggest gap

lies and i think right now in the world

that group is growing like it grew

exponentially in the last six months

um it probably isn't going that's not

going to change anytime soon so i'd

really like to focus in

um on that specific segment though i

think in doing that will benefit

groups one and two hopefully as well

yeah let's focus on them

cool um so thinking then okay so

thinking that a little bit more to your

question about like what

are sort of like the use cases or things

that that you know persona

persona family unit um might have

uh and i'm just gonna think about that

for a second okay

okay so a couple different pieces come

to mind

um i actually think yeah so so one

common use that this

that this elderly user and i'm going to

think about it first from their

perspective though again i don't want to

forget

about their about their relatives who

are really important here

but i think the first piece is the

elderly user might want to share

pictures of themselves and their world

with their family so reporting on like

what my life is like right now you know

what

what cool things am i up to or maybe

even like what am i worried about or

anxious about especially if this is

someone who's in

uh who's been kind of cut off from their

family um they might want to you know

ask questions or get help or or sort of

you know get advocacy from a younger

relative who might be able to

help assuage any you know fears or

concerns that they might have about

their care

um about you know what's going on in

their in their space i know that's a

concern i've heard from

um from from elderly folks um that i've

spoken with

in my own life um a sort of lighter

lighter weight use case um but i think

equally pervasive if not more so

is just enjoying and i alluded to this

like enjoying pictures of your family

and sort of feeling and understanding

what's happening in the lives of people

that you're not seeing every day in

person i think that's a really huge one

um it's like it's just it enriches it

enriches you know one's life and it

gives you important information and

allows you to check in on people

um who you care about and whom you love

in a way that

that um that maybe talking on the phone

doesn't do or the way they talk on the

phone is limited um and the lesson

that's like sort of taking in

information

um from the family and then the third is

another piece i kind of touched on

before which is like

sharing those pictures with others so if

i'm a grandparent i might want to show

my friends

you know if i have a spouse or partner

living with me maybe they're you know

these are also their grandchildren or

or you know they they care about these

folks as well so i might want to sort of

show off and involve

people that are around me in person in

these photos so that's an important

piece to consider

as well um so to kind of recap like

three you know focuses that i'm

considering here there's one that is

sharing pictures of myself and my world

back with

my my family my younger family maybe um

that could be important the second is

sharing pictures of that family

back with me and enjoying those pictures

myself and and feeling like i'm part of

their world

and then the third really is um sharing

those pictures of my family with others

that i do have in-person access to and

really enjoying

enjoying that and again um you know as a

visually impaired person i don't want to

be impeded or marginalized

or feel like a second class user in the

way that i'm enjoying those things

you know this is incredibly important

stuff and very basic and this is the

family that presumably i built and so i

really want to feel

like i'm able to be in the center of it

not that i've been nudged off to the

side

um so i think and that's really how

i would how i would think about it and

as i think about

you know what what kind of like a vision

for that product experience

might be um i think that what i what i'm

getting at is like

we want everybody to kind of feel

centered in the tool

that they're that nobody is marginalized

and nobody has forgotten but we really

want this to be designed

first and foremost with this elderly

vision impaired user in mind

um and to to basically make it feel like

they're

there and present so if i were to like

try and summarize it it's like bringing

your loved ones into the same room

with you how can we make it feel that

way and so everybody

is present together and when we think

about the younger family members that's

exactly what we want for them

as well as to to really have your um you

know elderly relative that you can't be

there in person with

how can we bring them into the room

using this using this app so that's kind

of the

like the headline that i'd like to keep

in mind when thinking about you know the

features that we might want to want to

prioritize here

um but i want to pause there kevin does

that all make sense do you have you know

thoughts or

questions yeah so this makes sense i

think this is a good vision to start

with

and i'm curious how we are going to

adopt this to someone who has this

impairment

yeah i think a couple of pieces are

important so like i mentioned i think so

you are saying like how will we get it

to them

or how is someone who has this

impairment use this i feel like someone

with

without the impairment they would be

able to enjoy pictures of their family

share pictures and report on what

they're up to

in ways that you and i may use this app

but if if there's this impairment we

might have to

change the maybe either the software or

the hardware in some ways and i'm

curious how you might do that

definitely yeah so this is really

interesting um because of course there

is technology that exists

to help you know blind folks interact

with with computers and then you know

particularly in the form of screen

readers

um as well as braille keyboards and

things like this so we definitely want

to design

something that is um compatible with

those

technologies but thinking about my

product vision i don't think that's

enough

um to maybe to your point like we really

want to center it

a little bit more um i think there are a

couple of different pieces

um and you're totally right like i think

um we think about the solutions that

exist right now

whether it be like you know going on

facebook and following your family

members on social media you know

that's one way that uh that might

excited folks might engage

maybe it's using like shutterfly or an

app or a tool that already exists

um bless you um or or maybe

um it's uh like getting um

you know if for a for a sighted person

you might get mailed

photographs and lots of older people

have photographs taped up but none of

those solutions

work well for our elderly vision

impaired user even if they have a screen

reader

social media site is extremely cluttered

and unfocused like there's a ton going

on there and that's distracting if

you're just trying to look at pictures

of your loved ones

and you know screen reader describes

what's happening on the screen it you

know it does not

give you visceral interactions and

engagement

in a sense of what's happening in your

loved one's lives i think that's that's

pretty

um weak and we should improve on that

yeah so maybe we can um

pick one of these that we want to focus

on so either

the elderly person reporting or them

being able to enjoy the pictures

or sharing with others and talk about

how we might turn this solution into one

that

someone with a vision impairment can

also enjoy definitely yeah so i'd love

to focus on the enjoying of the pictures

piece um i think that that one

is kind of at the emotional core of this

whole experience and that vision is sort

of viscerally feeling like

um like you're present in the room with

your family

uh on both ends of of that um

and so then again returning to you know

if we're thinking about the the tools

that already exist

to to do this like it's difficult to

uh easily like cut to the chase like if

you're using social media

um that's not so good because you have a

million other things distracting you

if you're navigating through with a

screen reader even you're not going to

be able to focus in

on um you know the information from your

family

obviously the experience of processing

the visual is not

happening in the same way um

and it's and there's no like like

first-hand traces

of your loved ones in the way that if

you see a picture of them or you hear

their voice on the phone

um there are so i think i'd like to sort

of think about this

actually in sort of three chunks of ways

that i think we could

um kind of design an app to set this up

i think the first

chunk is logistics like getting the

user set up like how can an app be very

easy and simple and friendly to

someone with a visual impairment so that

we can just get them in the app and

easily

enjoying um and accessing images

or like artifacts from their loved ones

the second piece is experiencing

um those artifacts and i think we can

use uh

sound uh to a good effect here to make

it

more personal um using thing and i'll

dive into this in more depth in a second

um and then engaging so allowing them to

like respond

back and to sort of have a back and

forth with their loved ones

about those artifacts um so to dive a

little bit more into the first chunk on

the logistical

front um so i think we'd want to make it

really easy to

set things up um in the app

and to make it as auditory as we

possibly could

um so maybe we can allow the younger

family members

to do something like record an audio

welcome

to their to their relative that kind of

just like outlines here's what this is

like we're excited to

to share with you and just gives them a

very we could you know provide like

three bullets for that person to record

into the app and then they have a very

familiar welcome to listen to

when they come in um we might also want

to allow voice commands

um from the elderly user to

kind of say to the app what they're

trying to do um maybe if

we wanted to for example organize um

a workflow around like i maybe i want to

see all the pictures of kevin like i'm

looking to

to like catch up on what's going on in

kevin's life and maybe we could have a

workflow specific to people um and i

could just say that i'm looking to talk

to

to kevin um not to talk to kevin to

catch up with kevin in his life

um and i could express that verbally um

two other good workflows there might be

like

uh like events like maybe kevin's

graduation um is something that i might

want to

to see and maybe a third workflow could

be

places so like if i you know i know my

family often like travels to seattle

i might want to say you know show me you

know let's engage with the artifacts

from seattle there's different ways that

we could set up

that elderly user to very quickly get

into

uh the enjoyable parts of the experience

and to limit

logistical messing around if we could

does that logistical chunk make sense

yeah yeah that makes sense i'm curious

if you can talk a little bit about how

it might look from the

grandchildren or the the younger

person's point of view

definitely yeah this is an interesting

one thanks for asking um because they're

certainly really important here

i think we'd want to provide a similar

workflow

uh for the most part because we want to

create parallelism

so that people could understand what

each other was was seeing

um so for example you know that same set

of three workflows we might want to

allow

um to have like a visual cues as well on

the page you could see how like

search for kevin you know search for

seattle

etc as well as being able to access

those through

voice um something i might add though

for those other

members of the family is something like

a progress indicator

of what your elderly loved one is doing

within the app

so we want to make a very clear feedback

loop uh you know were they able to

access things successfully

um are they stuck what's going on and so

if we could maybe have like a like a

happy path that we would like them to

follow

um you know access you know their first

images uh

engage with their first images things

like this uh responded to

um and show a progression there and then

we could even

like ping the um relatives we don't

wanna drive them crazy but if we could

figure out what did they care about like

if i had posted

um you know new photos of my graduation

i might want to get a nudge that that my

grandfather had successfully accessed

those um and maybe if he hadn't i could

even get a nudge that's like hey papa

head stuck

um you know you know make sure that he's

that he's all set so i think if we can

create that feedback loop it's important

to

just ease any anxieties that those

younger users might have about their

loved one accessing things

comfortably and easily yeah that makes

sense and i like how you're calling out

some of the anxiety that the

younger folks might have if they're not

sure how the elderly

relative is reacting or how engaged they

are with the

app did you want to talk a little bit

about

some of the other interactions that the

elderly had

yeah definitely so thinking then about

kind of so we've talked about logistics

let's talk now about sort of like

experiencing the images of the artifacts

then we'll touch on engagement

sort of interaction in a second um so

experience so

yeah i think i think voice could go a

long way here

um you know images capture

capture you know one sense of a person

but why not make it possible to share

sound clips from important moments in

life so i think we could maybe do two

different

types of sound clips that could

accompany

a photo one could be a voice memo that's

recorded in the moment so like if we're

taking a picture of you at your

graduation

you know we can hear we can say hey you

know here we are kevin's graduation

like this is really cool cheese or you

know whatever it is silly things that

happen in the moment

when you're taking a picture and then

have that easily just maybe like a very

large

well-contrasted button um or or

something very clickable um and

accessible again via

a screen reader and via keyboard

navigation um which in my

very limited understanding uh is most

compatible with

uh technology that blind folks use on

the computer

um so voice memos is one piece and then

i think um

and that's like for the big moments

right it's like you know this is like

this movie when when

when um kevin's name was called when he

was walking across the stage at his

graduation like big

auditory moments in life or someone

saying i do at their wedding

um or you know people jumping out at a

surprise party there's like special or

the sound that a dog made when you first

got a puppy and like it you know it's

running around in the yard

um those are momentous and that's

important and so we can

put those alongside images of important

moments

or even have them stand alone i think

the second of the two

like experiential pieces is uh more

every day um like like just being

present in the day-to-day of your loved

ones like what does it sound like

um you know after that big graduation

moment and people are hanging out you

know in the backyard having a cookout or

um you know whatever it is and so if we

could have a way to maybe say we

you know we wish that our loved one were

present for this the smaller moments

um something we could do is have like a

nudge

to the younger user maybe that took they

took the big momentous picture

they captured that moment great maybe a

couple of times later in the day we

nudged them

um via like a push notification to their

phone

to capture a casual moment for their

loved one and that can be shared

alongside it and associated

with both thinking about those workflows

from the beginning like associated with

the person

uh the event and maybe even the location

as well so this can be accessed by

um the other users so really just trying

to again thinking about that vision like

bring them

in um for both types of moments if

if we could and tying them to those

those workflows does that make sense on

the kind of experience side

yeah that makes sense i like the second

one where we kind of make it so that

they're

at the event where it's a little less

artificial and it might be

just like hey random times record

something from the audio

and it really makes the elderly person

feel like they're there

i like that that's definitely the goal

um

and they could send them back right and

so that actually kind of maybe brings me

then to the third of the three

so we've looked at kind of logistics

we've looked at just experience coming

from

the younger family members to the the

elderly user now let's also think about

how they could engage back like that's

really important if we're centering this

person they have to be able to

participate they're not just in a

passive observer right

um so you know one way if we can think

about

how can they send you know pieces of

their life back and how can they react

to what's being shared by their

relatives so one thing that occurs to me

is like verbal

comments um or you know how could you

you know say like even just the sound

of someone going aw or like wow or you

know oh my gosh or whatever it is and

just reacting

um you know perhaps we could allow the

if the person was comfortable and we'd

have to

do a little user research but you know

if uh we could even automatically record

you know kind of the reactions that the

that the user is having in real time

otherwise to your point

you know it could sound a little

artificial if you're just like saying aw

because you would have written

all um but if we could really record

their reactions in real life

and then maybe give them the option to

confirm that they want to send that

um or we could automatically add it if

that ended up being something folks were

comfortable with

um that you know they could send that

back and then you know me at my

graduation you know party get a nudge

and i can see that my you know my loved

one is enjoying that and i could send

one back

to them and we could have a conversation

the way that you might in like a

facebook comments thread

attached to an image um for

for sighted users um we could even do

something like like audio emojis

if there was some way to like maybe you

could pick you know different audio

emojis to engage with that were

correlated with like if i'm a

sighted user i'm like familiar with like

the heart kissing face

but you know what you know audio we can

put a funny sound to attach

to that and then you know use that as a

more casual and easier vocabulary

sometimes you don't want to record an

audio clip um

then there can be some pre-made ones

that are still fun and vivid

um to send back and forth to to each

other

yeah yeah it sounds like we want some

way for the

the younger relative to know that the

elderly relative has some sort of

reaction just to acknowledge this

two-way street definitely i think that's

important on both ends like to the

logistical piece from the outset

it's very important to show the younger

users that this is

this is something that the older user is

enjoying because i do suspect they are

the ultimate decision maker

but their decision will be based off of

utilization by the elderly user so we

want to keep that feedback loop strong

and to keep it as strong as possible we

want to make sure the elderly user feels

empowered and able to participate when

they want to and in control

they shouldn't have to they should be

able to sit back and just watch if they

like but let's give them the opportunity

i know some folks would really

um i suspect some folks would really

prefer that yeah and it also reminds the

younger person like hey there's a human

there's your relative behind this app

it's not just you're not just like

posting it onto your instagram or

something like that

cool um so i really like how you broke

it down to logistics and the experience

and the different interactions that we

can have

um i'm curious if you can't talk a

little bit about

how you might see how we could measure

success for this

yeah very important question um so as

you know as we've been talking about it

we really have been thinking about kind

of two user chunks

uh right there's the it's kind of the

buyer who might be the um

younger relative like a child or a

grandchild um

and then sort of what i'm thinking of is

they're not the only end user but the

the other end user is the the elderly

person so i'd want to have success

metrics associated with both

um at the highest level we want this app

to continue to be used

uh you know if whether it's like a

freemium tool or whether there's a you

know a subscription component of course

we'd want the buyer or decision maker to

to decide it was a good investment you

know if money is

is involved and so the way that we do

that um is

utilization by both parties you know i

think my top priority would be

utilization by the elderly visually

impaired person

since i believe that this tool would be

selected to make sure that they were

involved so it'd be really important

most of all that that person had a high

satisfaction like a high net promoter

score i don't think i'd measure in terms

of nps

uh but you know would they recommend it

to their friends do they continue using

it so the you know the simplest metric

is does that person build a habit

of coming in and engaging with with

things that are shared

um so each time that something is

available you know how often

is the elderly user viewing those

materials and engaging back with them

with their family members on the family

member side

i'd want to know how often are they

feeding content in there

you know that's important because

otherwise there's nothing to engage with

for our elderly users so

you know that's that's a potential

pitfall here if this person if the

younger users are already posting things

on instagram they're posting on facebook

things are already it's a bunch of work

if this is too challenging and they

forget it's not easily woven into their

lives

then the whole system falls apart

because there's nothing for the elderly

user

to engage with so it's really important

for us to be present for

them so i'd really just have engagement

steady and sustained

um well i wouldn't necessarily need to

be steady and sustained but at least

around key milestones

and sustained over time in order for

this to be successful

yeah that definitely yeah i like how you

call that retention there

it's it's kind of like if youtube didn't

have any content you wouldn't be able to

have anything it's

really similar in this case yeah and we

didn't and we didn't talk as much about

potential integrations here

i do think we could hedge against the

risk of no con

like people not putting enough content

in here by integrating with other places

where they're putting content already

um so if there's an option when you're

uploading to facebook for example can

you also upload

to to this to this app just to make it

as easy and to

increase the chances that content is

going to funnel in here from those

younger folks

yeah um oh like this is great

honestly and um i think we can stop here

and

i could take off my interviewer had and

um

again like this i really like your

answers here and before i give you my

feedback i'm curious

what your self-reflection might be yeah

i think it's such a fun interesting

topic i think sometimes i like i have a

tendency

to go down rabbit holes especially with

stuff that kind of catches my

imagination

i think i really had a vivid image in my

head of the elderly user i recently

spent time with my grandfather and i was

thinking of him

um he hasn't you know we've been talking

through the glass of his

of his um assisted living facility which

is really hard and so that that user was

very front and center for me

whereas i think the the buyer persona

the younger

folks was actually not as not as friend

of mine like you kind of brought that

back in a little bit in the questions

you were asking me so i wish i had

balanced those

a little bit more um is is one

reflection that i would have

okay yeah please yeah no i

think that overall this was a very

strong answer i like how we talked about

the different types of users and the

different

levels of interact-ability they had so

do we have day-to-day people

or day-to-day interactions with the

elderly or maybe just holiday touch

points

or maybe not being able to see each

other due to something like a pandemic

or distance

and i liked how we focused on just

trying to make sure that

the elderly person can be as involved as

possible

with the family regardless of their

situation but we really focused on

not being able to see each other due to

some some variable right

something that i really liked in your

answers was that you

paused at certain spots to give a recap

so you would give the three

use cases or you would give your three

solutions and then you would say

especially over a zoom call it's it's

really important to say hey like this is

what i said

one two and three that's it's very

powerful especially when it comes to

helping to make sure the interviewer

understands and is on the same page

and something else that i thought was

really powerful was that you

talked a little bit about the before and

after scenarios of

what your solutions would be so you

talked about before

people would just post on facebook and

et cetera and after

we talked about the logistics and broke

it down into the experience and the

interactions that the

the elderly and the younger relative

would have

i really like that i think when it comes

to

the metrics i think we probably should

and i know that we didn't have a lot of

time here and it's kind of like just a

mock interview right

but i think um it would be a little bit

stronger to talk about

maybe some guardrail metrics or some

counter metrics

that you might want to implement but

overall

i really did like this answer and i

liked how you

kept in mind i think in the beginning i

had a nudge a little bit or maybe you

were getting there and i just

interrupted you

but kind of talk a little bit more about

how specifically we can make this

into a product for someone with a vision

impairment

and you specifically called out things

like hey if they have

this extreme vision impairment like we

set up we want to focus a lot on the

auditory aspects and we want to

if there are any visual indicators they

have to click on we have to make them

high contrast

and i think that as someone who's

interviewing or

as an interviewee this just shows that

you have empathy and you

you can put yourself in their shoes so

good job on that

thanks thanks it was fun to talk it

through cool so thanks again for being

on today's show

and for the viewers if you have a

different approach on how you'd answer

this question

would love to hear what you'd have to

say thanks for tuning in

and good luck with your upcoming pm

[Music]

interview

you