Jordan Peterson and Max Lugavere - Pros and Cons of the Carnivore Diet

Summary

The transcript delves into the carnivore diet, exploring its potential as a therapeutic diet for autoimmune conditions. It acknowledges the diet's benefits for some, while cautioning against dietary extremism and misinformation. The conversation underscores the importance of individualized nutrition, the complexity of reintroducing foods, and the value of simplicity in dietary choices. It also highlights the potential for plant-based nutrients to complement a carnivorous diet, suggesting that a one-size-fits-all approach is not effective. The discussion emphasizes the need for informed decision-making and the possibility of dietary experimentation for those suffering from chronic health issues.

Takeaways

• 🥩 The carnivore diet is considered potentially therapeutic for individuals with autoimmunity issues.
• 🌱 The carnivore diet is not recommended for everyone and should be approached with caution.
• 🚫 The speaker is against diet zealotry and supports informed decisions based on individual health needs.
• 🌿 Some plant-based compounds, like those found in cruciferous vegetables, can be beneficial for detoxifying environmental pollutants.
• 🥦 Foods like kale and spinach are rich in carotenoids that benefit brain health.
• 🔍 Elimination diets can be useful for identifying food triggers for chronic health conditions.
• 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 The speaker's family experimented with various diets to address their daughter's immunological issues.
• 🐮 Beef was found to be effective for some individuals in alleviating symptoms of chronic conditions like arthritis.
• 🕒 A trial period of three months on a carnivore diet is suggested to assess its effectiveness.
• 🤔 Adding back certain foods to a carnivore diet is complex and requires careful monitoring and scientific approach.
• 🌐 There is no one-size-fits-all diet, and individual health histories and lifestyles should dictate dietary choices.

Q & A

What is the carnivore diet?

The carnivore diet is a dietary regimen that consists primarily or exclusively of animal products, such as meat, eggs, and dairy, and excludes plant-based foods.

What are the potential advantages of the carnivore diet mentioned in the transcript?

The potential advantages include its therapeutic benefits for individuals with autoimmunity, weight loss, and symptom relief for chronic conditions like arthritis and diabetes.

What are the potential dangers of the carnivore diet as discussed?

The potential dangers are not explicitly stated, but could include nutrient deficiencies from the lack of plant-based foods, which are rich in certain vitamins, minerals, and phytochemicals.

What is the speaker's stance on diet zealotry and social media?

The speaker is critical of diet zealotry and the emotional investment some people have in what others eat. They advocate for informed decision-making and are against misinformation or disinformation about healthy eating.

Why does the speaker believe the carnivore diet might be beneficial for some people?

The speaker suggests that for individuals with a predisposition to autoimmunity or those suffering from certain chronic conditions, the carnivore diet could provide symptom relief and potentially improve health.

What is the speaker's opinion on the demonization of cruciferous vegetables in carnivore circles?

The speaker disagrees with the demonization of cruciferous vegetables, citing studies that show compounds like glucosinolates can help detoxify the body from environmental pollutants.

What role do plant defense compounds play according to the transcript?

Plant defense compounds, despite being demonized by some, are believed to have health benefits, such as aiding in detoxification from environmental pollutants.

What does the speaker think about the idea of an elimination diet for addressing health issues?

The speaker views elimination diets as a potentially valuable tool for identifying dietary triggers of symptoms and improving health, especially when other dietary interventions have failed.

Why did the speaker's family experiment with the carnivore diet for their daughter's health issues?

The family experimented with the carnivore diet because traditional elimination diets did not make sense and did not help. They found relief with a more radical approach of consuming only beef.

What is the significance of the anecdotal evidence of weight loss and symptom remission on the carnivore diet?

The speaker considers the anecdotal evidence of significant weight loss and symptom remission as valuable hypotheses that, when repeated, start to resemble data and suggest the diet's potential efficacy.

What is the recommended trial period for the carnivore diet as discussed in the transcript?

The recommended trial period for the carnivore diet is suggested to be around three months to see if it works for an individual.

Why does the speaker suggest that adding certain foods back into the diet is complex?

Adding foods back into the diet is complex because it requires a scientific approach, discipline, and the ability to measure the effects over time, which can be difficult and time-consuming.

Outlines

00:00

🥩 Carnivore Diet: Advantages, Risks, and Personal Perspectives

The speaker discusses the carnivore diet as a potential therapeutic option, particularly for individuals with autoimmune conditions. While they acknowledge the diet's benefits for some, they also emphasize that they do not push it on others. The speaker expresses a general disinterest in what others eat, preferring informed choices over ideologically driven decisions. They highlight the potential nutritional benefits of plant-based foods like cruciferous vegetables and dark leafy greens, which are demonized in some carnivore circles. Despite the benefits of these plant compounds, they acknowledge that the carnivore diet might be useful for people experiencing symptom relief from certain conditions.

05:02

🥩 Beef-Only Diet: A Trial and Its Potential Benefits

The speaker explains that they've spoken to many people who have experienced significant health improvements, particularly weight loss, from a beef-only diet. They suggest that for individuals with chronic health conditions and obesity, trying an elimination diet, like consuming only beef for a few months, might be worthwhile. This approach is considered a simple method to test if a certain food is contributing to their symptoms, even if anecdotal evidence may not be viewed as conclusive data. The speaker stresses that, while it may not work for everyone, the simplicity of a beef-only diet offers a potential benefit with minimal risk.

10:03

🥩 Nutrition Complexity: Adding Nutrients Back After a Carnivore Diet

The speaker explores the idea of reintroducing other foods after following a beef-only diet. They acknowledge the nutrient-dense properties of beef but question whether additional foods could provide further benefits, such as higher levels of magnesium and other essential nutrients. Despite their skepticism, they emphasize the challenges of adding foods back to the diet. The speaker highlights that it requires a disciplined, scientific approach to determine what works, as the addition of new foods can be complex and hard to measure in terms of health benefits. They suggest that the simplicity of a meat-only diet is often easier to follow, but it may not fully address every nutritional need.

🌱 Individualized Nutrition: Tailoring Diets for Different Needs

In this section, the speaker addresses the fact that no single diet fits everyone. They acknowledge that their own family's health concerns led them to find a specific diet that works for them. However, for individuals without autoimmune issues and other health challenges, the speaker suggests that a balanced diet with a variety of nutrients, including plant-based foods, might be better suited. The discussion touches upon the complex factors influencing gut microbiome health, including lifestyle choices and exposure to chemicals. The speaker concludes by recognizing the benefits of restrictive diets for some, but argues that the broader population may need a more flexible approach.

Keywords

💡Carnivore Diet

The Carnivore Diet is a dietary regimen that consists solely of animal products, typically meat, and excludes all plant-based foods. In the script, it's discussed as a potential therapeutic diet for individuals with autoimmunity issues. The diet is highlighted as having potential advantages for certain health conditions but also noted for its potential dangers if not properly managed.

💡Autoimmunity

Autoimmunity refers to a condition where the immune system mistakenly attacks the body's own cells. The script suggests that the carnivore diet might be beneficial for individuals with a predisposition to autoimmunity, as it could help alleviate symptoms, which is a central theme in the discussion about the diet's potential advantages.

💡Gut Microbiome

The gut microbiome is the collection of microorganisms living in the digestive tracts of humans and other animals. It plays a crucial role in health and disease. The script mentions that a robust gut microbiome might allow people to tolerate and benefit from various foods, including those rich in plant defense compounds.

💡Plant Defense Compounds

Plant defense compounds are chemicals produced by plants to protect themselves from herbivores and pathogens. The script discusses how these compounds, such as glucosinolates found in cruciferous vegetables, have been demonized in some carnivore circles but are actually beneficial, as they can help detoxify the body from environmental pollutants.

💡Detoxification

Detoxification is the process of removing toxins from the body. In the context of the script, it is mentioned that certain plant compounds can aid in detoxifying from environmental pollutants, which are implicated in disease.

💡Phytochemicals

Phytochemicals are chemicals found in plants that have protective or disease-preventive properties. The script contrasts phytochemicals found in plant-based foods with those found in animal-source foods, suggesting that a diet rich in plant foods can provide a variety of health benefits.

💡Elimination Diet

An Elimination Diet is a dietary approach where certain foods are removed from the diet to identify potential allergens or triggers for symptoms. The script discusses the use of an elimination diet to address immunological problems, suggesting that removing all fruits and vegetables for a time can be beneficial.

💡Dietary Zealots

The term 'dietary zealots' refers to individuals who are extremely passionate and often dogmatic about their dietary choices. The script criticizes these individuals for being emotionally invested in what others eat and for potentially spreading misinformation about healthy eating.

💡Misinformation

Misinformation refers to false or inaccurate information, often spread unintentionally. In the script, misinformation is discussed as a potential obstacle to making informed dietary decisions, particularly in the context of social media and dietary activism.

💡Nutrient-Dense

Nutrient-dense foods are those that provide high nutritional value per calorie. The script describes beef as nutrient-dense, suggesting that it is a concentrated source of essential nutrients, which is a reason why it might be effective in an elimination diet.

💡Resilience

Resilience in the context of the script refers to the body's ability to withstand or recover from illness and other health challenges. It is suggested that modern lifestyles and diets have reduced the resilience of the gut microbiome, making people more susceptible to health issues and potentially benefiting from restrictive diets.

Highlights

Carnivore diet could be therapeutic for people with autoimmunity predisposition.

Diet enthusiasts on social media can be overly invested in what others eat.

The importance of informed decision-making in diet choices.

People with robust gut microbiomes can benefit from plant defense compounds.

Randomized human trials show cruciferous vegetables can help detoxify environmental pollutants.

Phytochemicals from animal source foods like carotenoids are beneficial for brain health.

Kale is a good source of carotenoids despite negative perceptions.

Elimination diets can be beneficial for addressing immunological problems.

Fasting is a reliable treatment for arthritis, as documented in literature.

Experimenting with elimination diets led to discovering the benefits of a carnivore diet.

Many people have reported weight loss and health transformations on the carnivore diet.

An elimination diet of just beef might be worth trying for chronic health conditions.

Beef is nutrient-dense and satiating, with potential short-term health benefits.

Adding back certain foods to a carnivore diet can be complex and require scientific discipline.

There's no one-size-fits-all diet, and individual health conditions should be considered.

The complexity of adding phytonutrients back into a diet and measuring their effects.

The simplicity of a carnivore diet and its potential for improving health.

The need for resilience in the gut microbiome and the impact of lifestyle on diet choices.

Transcripts

obviously at some point we're going to

get into the issue of the carnivore diet

yeah and so I guess the first thing I'd

say is and you're making some illusion

to it now obviously what are your

thoughts about the carnivore diet what

and its potential advantages and dangers

I think I mean I think it's potentially

a a great therapeutic diet for people

that have you know a predisposition to

autoimmunity yeah um and it's not

something that I would ever behold

anybody here's other thing is that diet

zealots particularly today on social

media they're very they seem to be very

emotionally invested in what other

people eat I don't care ultimately what

other people eat I feel the same way

about that you know at a at say a moral

level right but like or emo you want

people to be able to make informed

decisions not decisions clouded by what

I call covert activism right yeah or or

overt activism for for for for that

matter yeah or you know misinformation

or disinformation about what it means to

eat healthily today ultimately I don't

care you know somebody wants otherwise

known as lies yes precisely um so yeah I

mean I would for people that are that

have seen a reprieve of symptoms from

some of these awful conditions that

people suffer from yeah like keep doing

it yeah I think that for somebody with a

robust gut microbiome who you know I

think people should be able to tolerate

and not just tolerate but to derive you

you know a health benefit from you know

many of these so-called plant defense

compounds you know even cruciferous

vegetables which have become demonized

in certain carnivore circles you know

due to you know certain uh glucosinolate

compounds or compound like sorane which

you know there are actual randomized

human trials that show that these

compounds can actually help us detoxify

from some of these environmental

pollutants that we know you know play a

role in disease um

obviously you can get a certain uh dose

if you will of phytochemicals from

eating animal sourc foods but you know

carotenoids like ltin and zanthin which

we know are very beneficial to brain

health you know you're not going to see

a better you're not going to find a

better source of them in the supermarket

than kale for example which people love

to hate on but foods like kale spinach

dark leafy greens cruciferous vegetables

I think that the I do think that for

most people the benefits outweigh the

risk MH you know um

if an Elimination Diet where you remove

all fruits and vegetables for a Time

helps I think that's amazing well that

that's a good useful thing to discuss

procedurally I mean when we were trying

to

address my daughter's um immunological

problems which my wife was on at a very

early stage because she intuited that

there was a dietary relationship but it

turned out to be so complex I mean we

couldn't have possibly imagined that

eating nothing but meat was the solution

like who in the hell's going to ever

think that I knew that fasting was a

reliable treatment for for arthritis and

that's well documented in literature

virtually everyone who's arthritic if

they fast they go into remission but

then when they start eating the symptoms

come back and so well and maybe that's

not true if all they start eating again

is red meat but those studies hadn't

been done and still haven't been as far

as I know um we had tried Michaela on

some different elimination diets but

they made no sense like the food classes

that were eliminated and kept seemed

random to me and well and to Tammy and

and to Michaela and she started to

experiment they started to experiment

with more radical elimination diets and

by trial and error and also because of

Shawn Baker came to experiment with only

beef which worked and so you know and

we've talked to hundreds or maybe

thousands of people now who have tried

variants of the carnivore diet and had

radical especially weight loss

Transformations like yeah I talk to

people at my lectures all the time who

they're Shell Shocked because they've

lost like 150 pounds in 18 months and so

they're not even the same people

physically and well they're happy about

it obviously but also

completely they're shocked by the fact

that that worked now I would say and you

tell me what you think about this is

that if you are suffering from chronic

health conditions especially if you're

also overweight an Elimination Diet is

worth trying on the off chance that

something you're eating is causing your

symptoms because who knows and the

simplest Elimination Diet is obviously

just beef yeah right so why not go down

to one variable and if it doesn't work

like we've talked to many people and I

know people say well anecdotes aren't

data it's like no but they're hypotheses

yeah and many of the same anecdotes

start to look a lot like data so anyways

we've talked to many people who've

reported remission of their diabetic or

arthritic symptoms within two weeks of

an only beef diet and so we are thinking

that it's more like 3 months is a good

trial and if it doesn't work well okay

the loss is some restriction for 3

months and that's about it and it's it's

not like it's easy not saying that and

you may suffer some complications in the

transition to the new and more

restrictive diet but you can live on

just beef so like what the hell if

you're half dead and radically

overweight 3 months isn't much of a risk

and so I'm wondering what like what do

you think about that line of logic yeah

well I think you know I think well I

think you're right and in the sense that

beef is it's an incredibly

nutrient-dense food it's highly

satiating yes it's loaded with protein

obviously um you're you're restricting

the consumption of large swaths of the

most problematic Foods accessible to a

modern human today and so it doesn't

surprise me that at least in the short

term you're going to see an improvement

yeah yeah um and so I guess my qu my

question is and I think Shawn Baker is

very smart yeah but I I had him on my

podcast recently and I post this

question to him like you're performing

already at such a high level on beef and

I don't doubt that you're healthy you

seem healthy and he's quite monster yeah

and I'm not going to Gaslight somebody

who's on you know a carnivore diet and

and and and asserting that they're

thriving on it like who am I to G you

know to say that you're not right yeah

right um but you know my question to him

was like okay so you've established this

that this diet is working well for you

why not add in some of these foods that

we know have compounds that you know

might be lacking in beef yeah or like

might give you an additional benefit you

know for example like an all meat diet

might not have very particularly high

levels of magnesium which we know you

know plays hundreds of roles in the body

right everything from you know repairing

DNA damage to energy synthesis like it's

a co-actor that you know is required in

the synthesis of ATP for example some of

these carotenoid compounds that I

mentioned earlier like yeah you're

getting those are definitely open

questions yeah maybe they're you're

getting a small amount of them in your

meaton diet right but maybe a little bit

more might you know give you an

additional cognitive and and we're just

playing like nutritionism here with

these like individual nutrients that

have been studied that I can reference

that I know about but there are swaths

of nutrients in the plant kingdom that

you know have been identified as playing

as having a potential benefit to human

health even something as innocuous as

white rice right where it's had all the

an antinutrients sloughed off right like

for somebody who's you know such a

physical spe as he is like maybe adding

some carbohydrates into that system you

know so that you get a little bit of

additional glycogen in the tank before

you know cuz he's still trying to like

break records a Madman the best possible

way yeah um maybe that might you know

Ser an Adaptive so I can understand that

I guess the the my criticism of that to

the degree that a criticism is warranted

is it's extremely complex to

and this contradicts to some degree

something I said earlier you know that

you could reduce to a carnivore doid and

then add back it's very complicated to

add back right you really have to think

like a scientist and you have to be very

disciplined you know to experiment with

one thing at a time in addition and then

also to figure out well how do you know

if it's helping like what's your measure

and over what time frame you know so

like I've tried to add things back to my

I added salmon back to my diet and it

turned out that it made me anxious and I

have no idea why and it's a pretty

robust effect and it took a fair while

to manifest itself and so you have these

terrible complex problems with adding

things back which is well maybe if you

added phytonutrients for example of the

sort that you were describing it would

take a month to see a difference and it

would be hard to measure except in

certain circumstances so like how do you

know and that's the problem with

scientific investigation and the

advantage to just eating beef is that

it's really it's it's simple right it's

like no just do this and I'm I it

wouldn't surprise me at all if there

would be ways of it might surprise me

but I could imagine that there would be

ways of improving your diet beyond what

you would get with merely meat but man

it it really it's a conundrum to figure

out how to go doing that yeah well

everybody's the other thing that I think

is important is that there's really no

there's no such nutrition isn't a hat

there's no such thing as a one siiz all

pattern that's going to work for

everybody um and you know in your family

you obviously have you know you have

these health concerns which I think are

important to acknowledge and to you know

and to recognize that you're a scientist

and you've you know you've you've done

the work and you've found this one diet

this this this diet that works for you

and I think screaming all the way and I

think that's that's

amazing um but you know for somebody who

who is not immunologically compromised

right and who you know was born

vaginally and who didn't take a ton of

antibiotics growing up and was breastfed

and who hasn't you know traveled all

around the world and had infections and

surgeries and things like that that you

know you know these are all like it's

Death By A Thousand Cuts today um and so

you throw into that milu CR chronic

sedentary Lifestyles which you know has

a negative impact on the gut microbiome

we know that you know obviously an ultr

processed food diet has a negative

impact on the gut microbiome you know

all of these industrial chemical

additives also are playing a role we've

lost resilience in the gut I think and

that's why so many of us do seem to do

better seemingly on these you know

incredibly restrictive elimination diets

right