Ecosystems Architecture - The Open Group Summit, Houston, Texas

Summary

The video script discusses the evolution of IT architecture in the context of AI advancements. Phil, a technical architect at IBM, introduces an ebook on ecosystems architecture, emphasizing the need for architects to adapt to increasingly complex systems. The conversation explores the potential of generative AI to assist architects in managing complexity and envisioning new possibilities. It also touches on the role of professional practices and standards in guiding the integration of AI into architecture, inviting the community to contribute to the development of this field.

Takeaways

• 📚 The script discusses the evolution of ecosystems architecture and its significance in the context of complex systems and AI advancements.
• 🤖 Phil, the primary author of the book, has a background in technical architecture and has worked extensively with IBM, focusing on data ecosystems and large analytics systems.
• 🔍 The book emphasizes the importance of dealing with complexity in architecture, as systems scale and become more intricate, exceeding human capacity to manage.
• 🌐 It touches on the concept of 'hyper Enterprise' architecture, which involves working in open, ecosystem contexts with potentially millions of components.
• 🧠 The discussion highlights the role of generative AI and large language models in assisting architects, suggesting a new era of IT architecture where machines understand and communicate in human languages.
• 📈 The authors propose a 'third golden age' of IT architecture, leveraging the capabilities of AI to extend the boundaries of what architects can achieve.
• 👥 The book is a collaborative effort with contributions from various experts in the field, indicating a collective push towards advancing architectural practices.
• 🛠️ The script suggests that architects can use generative AI to produce schematics and diagrams, indicating a shift towards more dynamic and tool-assisted design processes.
• 📝 The importance of professional practice and standards in guiding the integration of AI into architecture is underscored, to ensure responsible and effective use of technology.
• 🔑 The Open Group is positioned as a key player in fostering collaboration and setting standards for the use of AI in architecture, inviting the community to participate in this advancement.
• 🚀 The script concludes with an optimistic view of the future, anticipating rapid progress and innovation in architectural tooling and practices with the help of AI.

Q & A

What is the primary focus of the discussion in the script?

The primary focus is on the concept of ecosystems architecture and how it relates to the challenges and opportunities presented by large-scale, complex systems, especially in the context of advancements in AI and generative AI.

Who is Phil and what is his role in the discussion?

Phil is a technical architect who has worked for IBM for 21 years and has been involved in SE PTO data ecosystems. He is also the primary author of the book discussed in the script and contributes his expertise on large data and analytics systems.

What is the significance of the book mentioned in the script?

The book, authored primarily by Phil, discusses the importance of ecosystems architecture in the context of increasingly complex systems and the potential of AI to assist architects in managing this complexity.

What does the term 'AI' stand for in Phil's introduction?

In Phil's introduction, 'AI' humorously stands for 'artificial idiot', setting a light-hearted tone for the discussion while also referring to the topic of artificial intelligence.

What is the 'third golden age of IT architecture' as discussed in the script?

The 'third golden age of IT architecture' refers to a new era where architects can leverage the capabilities of AI and generative AI to work with systems that were previously considered too complex, moving beyond traditional enterprise boundaries into hyper-enterprise contexts.

What is the role of generative AI in the future of architecture as per the script?

Generative AI is expected to play a significant role in the future of architecture by acting as an assistant to architects, enabling them to work with dynamically changing problem spaces and to conceptualize and design systems that were previously considered unthinkable.

What is the significance of the 'headful' concept mentioned by Phil?

The 'headful' is an informal unit of measure for complexity, suggesting that if one cannot fit all the ideas associated with a certain thing in their head, it is complex and requires multiple heads or minds to work on it.

What are the 'three golden ages' of IT architecture as outlined in the script?

The three golden ages are: 1) The age of machine code and high-level languages, 2) The age of encapsulated ideas and design thinking, such as objects and schematics, and 3) The current age where machines can communicate with us in human-understandable languages, allowing for augmented architectural practice.

How does the script suggest the use of generative AI by architects moving forward?

The script suggests that architects can use generative AI to produce schematics, diagrams, and other architectural representations in various formats, including text-based formats like SVG and XML, thereby accelerating and augmenting their work.

What is the potential role of standards organizations like The Open Group in the context of AI and architecture?

The script suggests that standards organizations like The Open Group should establish open interoperability frameworks and standards that leverage AI, facilitating the definition of specific solutions for any pair of enterprises and leading the way in the brave new era of AI-assisted architecture.

Outlines

00:00

📚 Introduction to Ecosystems Architecture

The speaker begins by acknowledging attendees who were present at a previous event in Edinburgh, where the topic of ecosystems architecture was first introduced. The group has since worked diligently, leading to the publication of an ebook authored primarily by Phil, who has an extensive background in technical architecture and data ecosystems at IBM. The speaker emphasizes the importance of the book and invites Phil to discuss its significance, hinting at the relevance of AI in architecture.

05:01

🌿 Exploring Ecosystems and AI in Architecture

Phil delves into the concept of ecosystems in architecture, comparing traditional enterprise architecture to the more complex and interconnected 'hyper Enterprise' context. He discusses the challenges architects face in managing large and complex systems, and how AI can potentially assist in this domain. Phil highlights the book's focus on practical applications of AI in architecture, rather than science fiction, and sets the stage for a discussion on how architects can work within open, dynamic systems.

10:02

🔍 The Evolution of Architectural Thinking

This paragraph discusses the evolution of architectural thinking from the early days of software engineering to the present, where semantics and the formal representation of ideas are crucial. Phil explains how the advent of graph databases and advancements in AI have influenced architectural practices. He suggests that the integration of AI with architectural tools can significantly augment the capabilities of architects, allowing them to tackle complex problems in new ways.

15:03

🚀 The Third Golden Age of IT Architecture

Phil introduces the concept of the 'third golden age' of IT architecture, a term borrowed from Grady Booch, which signifies a shift where machines can communicate with us in human-understandable languages. This development opens up new possibilities for architects to work with AI as an assistant, expanding the boundaries of what was previously considered achievable. The paragraph emphasizes the importance of maintaining professional practices while embracing these technological advancements.

20:06

🛠 Practical Applications of Generative AI in Architecture

The speaker shares an anecdote about an architect using a large language model (LLM) to produce schematics, highlighting the practical applications of generative AI in architectural work. Phil suggests that LLMs can communicate in any relevant language, including those for creating diagrams and models, thus accelerating and augmenting the work of architects. He invites the architectural community to explore these possibilities and collaborate on advancing the profession.

🌐 The Future of Architecture with AI

In the final paragraph, the discussion turns to the future of architecture with AI, with Phil expressing optimism about the rapid development of tooling and the potential for the open group to establish standards leveraging AI. He emphasizes the importance of professionalism and the existing community of architects in shaping this future. The conversation concludes with a call to action for the audience to engage with the ideas presented in the book and contribute to the ongoing evolution of architectural practices.

Keywords

💡Ecosystems Architecture

Ecosystems Architecture refers to a holistic approach to designing systems that operate within a complex, interconnected environment. It is the main theme of the video, as it discusses how architects can work within dynamic, open-ended contexts involving numerous components. In the script, it is mentioned that this approach is necessary for dealing with the complexity and scale of modern systems, and the book published by the open group delves into this concept.

💡Artificial Intelligence (AI)

Artificial Intelligence, or AI, is the simulation of human intelligence in machines that are programmed to think like humans and mimic their actions. Within the video's context, AI is discussed as a tool that can augment the capabilities of architects, particularly through generative AI models like chatbots, which can produce text-based outputs and help in creating schematics.

💡Enterprise Architecture

Enterprise Architecture is a well-defined practice for conducting enterprise analysis, design, planning, and governance using a holistic approach, which appears to be the precursor to the more complex ecosystems architecture discussed in the video. The script mentions the limitations of enterprise architecture in the context of limitless connectivity and the need to move towards hyper-enterprise contexts.

💡Generative AI

Generative AI refers to AI systems that can create new content, such as text, images, or schematics, that are not just replications of existing data. The script highlights the potential of generative AI to assist architects in their work, enabling them to produce diagrams and models dynamically and efficiently.

💡Large Language Models (LLMs)

Large Language Models are AI systems that process and generate human-like text based on the input they receive. In the video, they are discussed as a key component of generative AI, capable of producing complex diagrams and aiding in the architectural design process, as illustrated by the example of producing a class diagram for a facade pattern.

💡Semantics

Semantics is the study of meaning in language, which is crucial in software engineering and architecture for ensuring that the concepts being modeled have clear, shared understanding. The script discusses the importance of semantics in linking ideas and models within the context of AI and architectural practice.

💡Graph Databases

Graph databases are a type of database that stores data in graph structures with nodes, edges, and properties, allowing for efficient representation of complex interconnected data. The script mentions the early work in graph databases as part of the evolution towards understanding and managing complexity in systems.

💡SVG

SVG stands for Scalable Vector Graphics, which is an XML-based file format for describing two-dimensional graphics. In the script, SVG is used as an example of a text-based format that can be generated by LLMs to produce visual schematics or diagrams.

💡Archimate Language

Archimate is an open and independent modeling language for Enterprise Architecture, used to describe, analyze, and visualize architectural landscapes. The script discusses the possibility of expressing Archimate in XML, which could be generated by LLMs, indicating a potential integration with AI for architectural modeling.

💡Tipping Point

A tipping point refers to a critical threshold at which a small change or action can produce a significant and often unstoppable effect or change. In the context of the video, the tipping point is the arrival of advanced AI that can converse in human languages, enabling architects to work in new domains and scales.

💡Third Golden Age

The Third Golden Age, as mentioned in the script, refers to a new era in IT architecture enabled by the confluence of professional practices, first principle mathematics, and the capabilities of generative AI. This age is characterized by the ability to work with machines as assistants, expanding the possibilities of architectural design.

Highlights

Introduction of the Ecosystems Architecture concept, which is a new approach to managing complex systems beyond traditional enterprise boundaries.

Phil Hames, the primary author of the Ecosystems Architecture book, has 21 years of experience at IBM and specializes in large data and analytics systems.

The book discusses the challenges of architecting systems that are too large and complex for human capacity, necessitating new methodologies.

The concept of 'hyper Enterprise' is introduced to describe working in contexts where traditional enterprise boundaries are blurred.

The importance of understanding and managing ecosystems within architecture, especially with the dynamic and evolving nature of components.

The book does not indulge in science fiction but focuses on 'science fact', providing practical insights into current technological capabilities.

The role of generative AI and large language models in augmenting the capabilities of architects and engineers.

The potential for generative AI to produce schematics and other visual representations through text-based formats like SVG.

The idea of 'headful' as a measure of complexity, indicating when a system is too complex for a single person to comprehend.

The three golden ages of IT architecture as described by Grady Booch, emphasizing the current age of human-machine collaboration.

The book's focus on the cohesion of ideas that have been in development for decades, now updated in the context of advanced AI.

The call to action for the architectural community to embrace the new possibilities offered by generative AI and contribute to the evolution of the profession.

The potential for the Open Group to establish standards that leverage AI for defining solutions in an interoperable framework between enterprises.

The emphasis on professionalism and precision in the use of AI to ensure the advancement of architectural practice.

The anticipation of rapid tooling development in the field of AI and architecture, with the community expected to drive innovation.

The importance of the Open Group's role in leading the development of standards in the brave new era of AI-enhanced architecture.

The book's aim to clarify and consolidate existing ideas in flight, providing a comprehensive resource for the architectural community.

Transcripts

those of you and I know there were some

of you because I I I recognize you uh

those of you who were at our Edinburgh

event a year ago um you would have heard

the first talk inside the open group of

um ecosystems architecture and some work

that's being um done um with by a by a

subgroup of our architecture Forum um on

this topic and uh in that time uh that

group has worked uh uh diligently and um

and had a lot of uh great discussions

along the way that you will hear about

shortly but um I'm I'm pleased to

announce that uh as of today with Phil a

little bit more so um just a quick

introduction to Phil some of you will

remember him if you've heard him speak

before you'll definitely remember him uh

it's great to have you back Phil um he

is for the past 21 years Phil has worked

for IBM as a technical architect and

he's been SE PTO data ecosystems um and

he's also uh vice president of the

Academy of Technology between 2019 and

2022 and he in his day job he helps top

100 companies build really big data and

analytics it systems so uh without

further Ado because this is a great

topic uh don't want to waste any time

over to you Chris thank you Steve yes I

was just going to say welcome Phil how

are things in Preston hi guys can you

hear

me can we hear him you hear me can you

see me yes

yes okay so um we did publish the ebook

just now um you can get to it on the

open group library but there will be a

hard copy following shortly okay so

uh Phil is the primary author here of

the book

um we've announced it why is it

important

mate so just be just before we dive into

that Chris can I can I just make

something clear so um uh thank you very

much Steve for introducing me as an AI

in my case the AI stands for artificial

idiot so at least we've set set the

level of

expectation um and and I also should

compliment andras what a what a an

absolutely brilliant uh session but

before we start because we're going to

touch on AI slightly uh let's just reset

the tone so um andras talked a lot about

what could happen as Architects we

should really only be interested in what

can happen so ecosystems is essentially

about how what we can do uh potentially

with AI now that's one of the things

that this is about and actually the book

does not talk about science fiction it

talks very much about science fact so um

on that

basis um just repeat your question Chris

and then I'll dive into it properly

sorry why is this book important Phil

right because there there are a couple

of things going on so um as we as

Architects learn how to build bigger

better faster stronger

systems there are two consequences of

that the first thing is that our systems

scale uh and the other reason is that as

we scale our systems the side effect is

generally that the systems become more

complex that causes a problem for us as

humans in that we only have certain

finite we have capacity and the systems

that we're being asked to architect

these days uh in certain circumstances

are becoming just too large and too

complex for us to handle there's a

second problem as well in that if you

look at current stateof the art as in

first of all we started to think about

how we architect systems and then we

afforded ourselves the luxury of

thinking about systems of systems in

other words what we call Enterprise

architecture today this there's a

problem with the idea of Enterprise uh

the world that we're living in

today and predominantly there I'm

speaking about the internet Aid means

that most Enterprises or organizations

are afforded the opportunity for almost

Limitless connectivity beyond the bounds

of what we would traditionally consider

to be a business or

Enterprise so a question that we asked

as a a group of Architects over 15 years

ago now was how can we work in an

environment like that how can we AB

abstract above the level of the

Enterprise into hyper Enterprise

contexts and how can we work with

systems and within problem contexts

where it's almost impossible to

understand where the boundaries of our

Enterprises are or our systems are in

formal terms what we're actually talking

about is the idea of closure in it

architecture so the primary question

that we asked was how can we potentially

think about architect detecting systems

in a world where um it's entirely open

and if you speak to experts from other

fields they have a world for that type

of open context and the word that they

use is

ecosystem so uh in an ecosystem context

we're dealing potentially with hundreds

of thousands if not millions of

components that that at the mer that

that are Mercy at the EB and flow of the

requirements around them and they could

be dynamically changing or evolving with

inside context with which we no longer

have direct control as Architects how

could we work in that hyper Enterprise

world was the challenge that we set

ourselves many many years ago and it's

taken a lot of thinking to get to the

point that we're at now um I hope that

answers your question

Chris uh well I'll reread the book and

we'll see uh

the I I can tell you that when when Paul

Paul uh let me just name the authors

here so that you know who we're talking

about the authors are Phil Paul hman

Neil Fishman and uh Rahul from Honda R&D

Europe and some of the contributors uh

Steve Nichols from dxc Mark Dixon from

The Open group Christopher Hines from

Rolls-Royce and Stuart Weller from

Rolls-Royce when Paul asked me what I

thought about the early drafts I said to

him my head's

exploded right there's some there's some

incredible thought leadership in this

document so there's a story line and a

thread that's run through this field

that you guys have worked on for the

past year can you talk to us a little

bit about the composition of the book

and the storyline for it yeah so if you

would look at the history back in

actually I was thinking about this Chris

because I know you and I prepared the

questions up front uh in around 20012

2002 there was a group of us were deeply

interested in the idea of semantics in

software engineering and that actually

translates into it architecture as well

and in other words how can we understand

that the things that we're talking about

are tangible and real how do we link

those things together uh and how do we

how do we Bend and modify that thinking

so we can think about genuine complexity

not just in it systems but in a number

of systems that are around and

associated with both Science and

Technology social systems for example

social media and that eventually LED

onto the the early work in graph

databases um and eventually we got to

the point where not only were we

interested in modeling architecture you

got to remember that the fundamental

substrate underneath uh architecture is

essentially the representation of of the

formal representation of ideas so um

that work eventually progressed almost

hand in glove with the advances in uh

information retrieval for example an

early AI until eventually we got this

weird Confluence of ideas about 18

months ago where you now see AIS like

chat GPT and Bard and and other

instances now what's interesting is if

you would look at the formal mathematics

under those AIS what you'll actually

find is the same are the same

mathematics that we were thinking about

decades ago now with regards to the

linking together or networking of ideas

now if we were to peel back the ideas of

it architecture if we were to look at

the semiformal M uh semi-formal

schematics that we all trade in as a

matter of almost reflex these days then

underlying those schematics you've got

the same mathematics if we were to

actually essentially undress the

schematics and redress them in a way so

that you could represent any idea or

theme so long as you could capture the

semantics precisely then essentially

with the aid of artificial in assistance

so in other words if we can augment the

capability of an architect using

Advanced tooling like large language

models then essentially that that

springboards us out into a whole new

universe of possibilities and ideas so

um a colleague of mine inside IBM many

many years ago coined um an informal

unit of measure for complexity he

referred to the headful and by a headful

what he meant was that if you can't fit

all the ideas associated with a certain

thing in your head then by definition

it's complex and you need multiple

headphones to work on that what's

interesting is if you if you map

together if you bond together all the

good practice that we've developed thus

far in the profession of it architecture

and you use the underlying first

principle mathematics and then you bring

in the very very powerful and profound

capabilities that we now have in

generative eye generative Ai and large

language models what it allows you to do

is to cast out beyond the idea of an

Enterprise and work in the domain of

dynamically system dynamically changing

problem

spaces so this is this is if you like

I'm going to say it a different way what

when when the generative AI when

generative AI models like chat GPT

arrived about 18 months ago um I said to

those around me look this is a case of

everybody off the bus we need to start

again um that's not true actually

if you look at what we've done over the

Decades of architectural and software

engineering progress actually what it's

done is it's naturally brought us the

situation that we're in now which is if

we apply all the forethought all the

governance all the riger that we bring

as Architects and engineers then there's

absolutely no reason why we should not

engage with this next generation of of

technology to allow us to think about

what we previously thought to be

Unthinkable now and was right we need

guide rules but actually or guide rails

but actually the guide rails are already

in place through the professional

practice we already have what you will

find in this book is the bringing

together of all the first principle

ideas all uh Concepts around guide

railing that we already have inside it

architecture you bring together all the

best practice that we've had uh and

hopefully you come up with something

that will take us into what we're now

calling the third goal golden age of it

architecture yeah so Phil can you just

comment on on what the three Golden Ages

were that you outlined in the book yeah

so I'm stealing this so it um this

actually came from gry B um we were

lucky enough to work with Grady uh a

little bit on Crafting crafting the text

what Grady says is rather profound I

absolutely love this he said the first

gold Edge he actually refers to the the

golden edges of software engineering but

he kindly agreed that we can transfer

into it architecture so the first golden

age of it architecture was the age if we

wanted to with

the entirely conform to their language

and protocols so we're talking about the

age where we went the where we first

started off with machine code then we

progressed to assembler then high level

languages and so on and so forth then

what we did was we we hit the point

where they had to terms talk to the

machines directly and immediately

understand what we what we afforded

ourselves was the capability to abstract

slightly further and talk in terms of

encapsulated ideas now that's what Grady

refers to is the second age and there

you find instances essentially of

professional advance or or um thinking

around design so you get the idea of

objects and

encapsulation you get the idea of the

schematics and the graphic IAL ways of

communication that uh we naturally

evolved as a community and then we

actually got to this Tipping Point which

is very very recent surprisingly but

astonishing astonishingly profound

certainly for me so those who will be

familiar with the work of um Alan cheing

will most probably remember the cheing

test in other words can a machine fool

you that it's human well I think we're

probably at a safe point where we can

suggest that we've smashed the during

test and what that means is is that

actually the coin is being flipped from

the first golden Edge and no longer do

we need to talk to machines in languages

that they can understand rather they can

talk to us in languages that we can

understand and what that means is that

if we are careful if we are professional

and if we are precise then what we can

do is essentially we can work with

machines as our assistant to allow us to

augment our practice to move out into do

domains that we could not previously

reach before that's what we refer to as

being ecosystems architecture or

architecting in the hyper Enterprise

plane so Phil could could you perhaps uh

suggest some uh some ways in which the

architect profession might use

generative AI going forward yeah

absolutely so

um uh I was in a meeting a week and a

half ago with uh a fellow architect

and uh he passed a comment that I didn't

quite believe at the time he said I'm

I'm talking to large language models and

I'm getting them to produce schematics

for me and he mentioned a specific large

language model and I corrected him

afterwards and I said look um I think

you'll find that that particular large

language model um only Converses in

terms of text it can't produce

schematics it can't produce pictures and

he said no no no no you're forgetting

something Phil um I can ask that large

language model to Output the output its

answer in SVG SVG is a text-based file

format so if I want a picture of two

Dolphins running up a street wearing a a

soccer strip um it can do that for me

and I said to him pass me the code uh

and actually before I'd finished the

sentence I was online already and I'd

asked one of the llms I said can you

produce me a um a class diagram in a

specific format that demon rates the

subtlety of a facade pattern within 5

Seconds i' taken the output from that

llm I'd gone another tool online and I

had

a anything that I could have ever drawn

of opponents all evolving in close to

real

timeit exciting and

interesting

you you had uh your your audio and video

had Frozen for a moment there um after

you gave that

example uh to us a week ago I went

discuss this with some folks relative

not to uml but to the archimate language

and we have archimate can be expressed

in XML just go go back about 30 go go

back about 30 seconds Chris the line's

obviously failing I'm sorry yeah what

I'm saying is is that you were giving

the example

of uh the llm and a rendering of a uml

uh

described uh facade

pattern and when we discussed that last

week I said well okay we can produce XML

definitions of aromate through the

exchange file format here at the open

group would it be feasible to do that

with a large language model the toaf

standard the arim standard all that sort

of thing and the answer that came back

from the several people I asked was yeah

there's no reason we couldn't do that so

the the um the example is if it's if

it's something that we can talk about

and describe in a fairly formal way some

of these things can accelerate a lot of

the work that we would typically do

augment the

work yeah so can you hear can you hear

me at the moment Chris

yes and the moment you say yes it

freezes Al go well

have you still got me yes we've still

got you it's just Murphy's dancing

around the room at the

moment right so the the key point is

this isn't just about SVG or XML

friendly formats it's about the

capability of llms to communicate in any

form of language that we deem to be

relevant so we're likely going to be

moving into a world of dynamic languages

that will be created within the moment

um and that in itself

a whole universe of possibilities and

creativity that we as an architect

Community can only we're only just on

the edge of imagining now so um this is

a horizon that

ising at the same time uh and it this is

work that

absolutely inside a formal community of

Architects who are interested in the

betterment of the profession I can think

of no better work no better place than

the open group to do that work so that's

really uh an invitation to the community

and the industry at large to come and

help flesh out this work and collaborate

with the uh ecosystems architectural

work

group correct given the pace of

advancement in uh generative AI at the

moment almost certainly we will see

progress in the tooling space I know

that you're already talking to one or

two organizations who are playing with

ideas in the ecosystem space and around

Genera

AI I think we're heading

for an

amazing Spurt of inspiration and

Advance the key point so the the point

that andras made was if we keep this

within the profession and we make our

work

professional then all that we can

expect is increased professionalism and

better practice and capability again I

cannot emphasize this has to be about

what we can and should do not what we

could or would

do yeah the the the the ship has

effectively sailed and we're in the

middle of it I think this book has

actually laid down and clarified some

things that are actually in Flight

already and just haven't been

necessarily pull all down in one place

if if I understand the reason you guys

got

together yeah so this isn't particularly

about anything new it's about the

cohesion of a collection of ideas that

have been in play for a number of

decades what we've done is just uh

updated those within the context of this

post chinian World um I would I would

appeal every every single one of those

who have contributed towards this book

deserves a round of applause I'm

exceptionally proud of it uh it's been

some time in the coming it just happens

that time it couldn't have happened

within a better community um it's just

great news absolutely great news

exciting times my friend indeed uh and

what I would like to do Phil is just

hand you back over to Steve for Q&A from

the audience and uh thank you for the

contributions to all of the authors and

and the

contributors thank you as always I bow

before you thank you Chris and uh thanks

Phil um we're uh running a little behind

here I'll keep the questions brief but

um I did did um I do swear that um in

fact excuse me I'll give this back

because it's past codes g off and

somebody else needs to do that for me

please Andrew um I swear when you first

mentioned generative AI at the beginning

of your talk you actually said

degenerative AI which I thought was

quite funny

um did know really well that was because

I declared myself as being an artificial

idiot I do

apologize no so um actually I don't I I

did see the questions on there uh

there's one I need a refresher about but

um the first one was um uh well it was

thank you it it was along the lines of

thank you for explaining where you've

got to and the journey so far what's

next with

this I think the inevitability is that

we're going to see

tooling quicker than even I could

imagine uh my expectation is once the

community gets hold of this we'll see

incremental

Advance well my guess is it will match

progress with llms I think it has to um

how fast that

is I I think we all have to stand back

and watch to be truthful I I'm I I don't

really want to predict that type I think

it would be foolish to predict but fast

faster than fast faster than faster than

fast there we go um and so the other

question that came in is do you think

the open group should establish an open

interoperability framework

standard that would leverage AI for

defining a specific solution for any

pair of

Enterprises I think the default answer

has to be yes um I'm very passionate I

think now is the time for standards

organizations to step up and take the

lead um we are heading towards a brave

New Era

it's right and proper that organizations

like the open group should be front

front and center so the the answer is

yes but um I think that should only be

one of a number of working groups that

are spawned out of of the the open group

yeah yeah this is a leadership thing

yeah yeah Phil I I appreciate you the

efforts of you and all the authors and I

I absolutely second the uh the idea that

that should be uh that should deserve um

a round of applause which you're hearing

another one of in just a moment um but I

uh I I've read this myself and uh it I

found it really thought-provoking I

actually thoroughly enjoyed it and um I

know I'm on stage at an open group event

but I don't always find everything we

publish quite as

compelling um as as this it really did

uh get me thinking about uh this and the

timing could not be more appropriate so

um I'm delighted that we're doing this

now and uh look forward to where it goes

next so C can I just end on one thing

can you um help me fulfill a life's

ambition I'd like to say one thing of

course back to Steve in the studio I've

always wanted to say

[Laughter]

that thanks Phil appreciate

it okay folks yeah well here we are in

the studio we're going to break from the

studio for uh for coffee uh tea whatever

outside we as as you know we're a few

minutes late going in so let's take 15

minutes um and uh and be back here in 15

minutes we have some more great stuff um

to go through and uh I I uh recommend

downloading this ebook to uh to

everybody see you

soon