Dorian Gray Chapter 3 – Discussion
Summary
TLDRThis script from 'The Picture of Dorian Gray' explores Lord Henry's influence on Dorian, highlighting Henry's cynical worldview and his disregard for the consequences of his actions. It delves into Henry's conversations with Dorian and others, revealing his hedonistic and aesthetic philosophies, which Dorian becomes increasingly infatuated with. The summary underscores Dorian's tragic background and the potential for his downfall under Henry's toxic guidance, setting the stage for the novel's exploration of beauty, morality, and the pursuit of pleasure.
Takeaways
- 📚 The script discusses Chapter 3 of 'The Picture of Dorian Gray', focusing on the character of Lord Henry and his influence on Dorian Gray.
- 👤 Lord Henry is portrayed as a charming yet cynical character who often speaks without meaning what he says, which is a trait that both attracts and misleads Dorian.
- 💬 Conversations in the novel reveal Lord Henry's views on youth, money, and the importance of beauty, often using aphorisms to express his hedonistic and aesthetic beliefs.
- 👶 Dorian Gray's tragic background is highlighted, including his mother's beauty, her marriage to a penniless soldier, and the subsequent death of both parents, which evokes sympathy for Dorian.
- 🎨 The theme of beauty and tragedy is explored, suggesting that behind every exquisite thing, there might be a tragic story, foreshadowing Dorian's own fate.
- 🧠 The psychological aspects of the characters, particularly Lord Henry's desire to dominate and influence Dorian, are a central focus of the chapter.
- 🕊️ Dorian's innocence and purity are contrasted with his eventual corruption, showing the transformative power of Lord Henry's influence.
- 🗣️ Lord Henry's disregard for the consequences of his influence on Dorian is evident, as he treats people and life as mere experiments for his own amusement.
- 🍽️ The setting of Aunt Agatha's luncheon serves as a stage for Lord Henry to display his wit and charm, further captivating Dorian and the other guests.
- 🚫 Warnings from other characters, such as Basil and Lady Agatha, about taking Lord Henry's words seriously are mentioned, indicating his reputation for speaking without sincerity.
- 🔮 Dorian's infatuation with Lord Henry's worldview is complete, as he chooses to follow Lord Henry over keeping his promise to Basil, showing the depth of his influence.
Q & A
What is the main topic of Chapter Three in 'The Picture of Dorian Gray'?
-The main topic of Chapter Three is Lord Henry's visit to his uncle, Lord Fermor, to learn more about Dorian Gray, and the subsequent conversation that reveals Lord Henry's character and his influence on Dorian.
Why does Lord Henry visit his uncle, Lord Fermor?
-Lord Henry visits his uncle to find out more details about Basil's friend, Dorian Gray, showing his curiosity and interest in Dorian.
What is the significance of the conversation between Lord Henry and his uncle about money?
-The conversation about money reveals Lord Henry's nonchalant attitude towards financial responsibility, hinting at his carefree and possibly unreliable nature.
How does Lord Henry's statement about never paying his bills reflect his character?
-Lord Henry's statement about never paying his bills suggests that he might be a person who says things he doesn't mean, indicating a potential lack of sincerity and seriousness in his character.
What does Lord Henry's uncle say about Dorian Gray's family background?
-Lord Henry's uncle reveals that Dorian's grandfather was Lord Kelso and his mother was Lady Margaret Deo, who was known for her extraordinary beauty and her scandalous marriage to a penniless soldier.
Why was Dorian Gray's father killed in a duel?
-Dorian's father was killed in a duel arranged by Lord Kelso, who disapproved of his daughter's marriage to a man of low social standing.
How does the information about Dorian Gray's family contribute to his character development?
-The tragic family background adds depth to Dorian's character, making him a more sympathetic figure and providing context for his later downfall.
What is the significance of the quote 'Behind every exquisite thing that existed there was something tragic'?
-This quote suggests a connection between beauty and tragedy, foreshadowing the tragic events that will unfold in Dorian's life despite his outward perfection.
How does Lord Henry's influence on Dorian manifest in Chapter Three?
-Lord Henry's influence is evident in his conversations with Dorian, where he imparts his cynical and hedonistic views, which Dorian becomes increasingly fascinated with.
What does Lady Agatha's comment about Lord Henry's words reveal about his character?
-Lady Agatha's comment that Lord Henry 'never means anything that he says' highlights the idea that his words are not to be taken seriously, further emphasizing his manipulative and insincere nature.
How does Dorian Gray's reaction to Lord Henry's arrival at Aunt Agatha's luncheon show his infatuation with Lord Henry's ideas?
-Dorian's flush of pleasure upon seeing Lord Henry and his eagerness to be in his company indicate a strong infatuation with Lord Henry's ideas and theories.
What does the Duchess's comment about Lord Henry being 'delightful and dreadfully demoralizing' suggest about his impact on others?
-The Duchess's comment suggests that while Lord Henry is charming and witty, his influence can be morally corrupting, as he espouses views that can lead to demoralization.
Why does Dorian choose to go with Lord Henry instead of keeping his promise to Basil?
-Dorian's choice to go with Lord Henry over fulfilling his promise to Basil demonstrates the extent of Lord Henry's influence on him and his prioritization of Lord Henry's company over loyalty and obligation.
What is the connection between Lord Henry's behavior and the themes of aestheticism and hedonism?
-Lord Henry's focus on beauty and pleasure, and his disregard for morality, directly ties his behavior to the themes of aestheticism and hedonism, which value art and sensory experiences above all else.
What is the significance of aphorisms in Lord Henry's speech and how do they reflect his views?
-Aphorisms are used by Lord Henry to convey his cynical and hedonistic philosophies in a concise and impactful manner, making them a tool for his manipulative influence on Dorian and others.
Outlines
🎭 The Influence of Lord Henry and Dorian Gray's Origins
This paragraph delves into the character dynamics and backstory of Dorian Gray, as introduced in Chapter Three of 'The Picture of Dorian Gray.' It begins with Lord Henry visiting his uncle, Lord Fermor, to learn more about Dorian. The conversation reveals Lord Henry's frivolous attitude towards money and his personality traits, which are consistently portrayed throughout the novel. The backstory of Dorian's parents is unveiled, with his mother being described as extraordinarily beautiful and his father meeting a tragic end in a duel arranged by Dorian's grandfather, Lord Kelso. This information paints Dorian as a more tragic figure, evoking sympathy for his difficult upbringing and setting the stage for his eventual downfall.
🎨 Aestheticism and the Tragic Nature Behind Beauty
The second paragraph explores the themes of aestheticism and the tragic nature often hidden behind exquisite things, using Dorian Gray as a prime example. It discusses the idea that behind every outwardly perfect individual, there may be a tragic backstory. Dorian's character is further analyzed, highlighting his purity, innocence, and exceptional looks, which make him a perfect subject for Lord Henry's influence. The paragraph also touches on the psychological aspects of the characters, particularly Basil's secrecy and idolization of Dorian, and Lord Henry's desire to dominate and experiment with Dorian's life, viewing it as a form of art.
🗣️ Lord Henry's Cynical Charm and Dangerous Influence
This section of the script focuses on Lord Henry's conversational style and the impact of his cynical yet charming aphorisms at a luncheon attended by Dorian and Aunt Agatha. Lord Henry's disregard for suffering and his promotion of hedonism and aestheticism are critiqued. His statements are seen as both delightful and demoralizing, reflecting his ability to captivate an audience despite his immoral views. The guests' reactions to Lord Henry serve to highlight the dangerous potential of his influence, as noted by Mr. Erskine, who deems him 'extremely dangerous.'
🔮 Dorian's Obsession with Lord Henry and the Consequences of Influence
The final paragraph of the script examines Dorian Gray's growing obsession with Lord Henry and the latter's heartless willingness to shape Dorian's life without considering the consequences. Dorian's loyalty to Basil is tested and found lacking as he chooses to accompany Lord Henry instead. This decision underscores Dorian's susceptibility to Lord Henry's influence and foreshadows the negative outcomes that will result from adopting Lord Henry's values. The paragraph concludes with an emphasis on the connection between Lord Henry's behavior and the ideologies of aestheticism and hedonism, which prioritize beauty and pleasure above morality.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Lord Henry
💡Dorian Gray
💡Basil
💡Youth and Beauty
💡Moral Corruption
💡Influence
💡Hedonism
💡Tragic Childhood
💡Aestheticism
💡Hypocrisy
Highlights
Lord Henry visits his uncle Lord Fermor to learn more about Dorian Gray.
Lord Henry's conversation reveals his views on money and his disregard for paying bills.
Basil initially noted that Lord Henry often says things he doesn't mean.
Lord Henry seeks useless information about Dorian Gray out of sheer curiosity.
Dorian Gray's grandfather was Lord Kelso, a not very nice man.
Dorian's mother, Lady Margaret Devereux, was extraordinarily beautiful but married a penniless soldier.
Lord Kelso arranged for Dorian's father to be killed in a duel.
Dorian's mother died shortly after giving birth to him, making his upbringing tragic.
Dorian Gray falls into the negative influence of Lord Henry.
Behind every exquisite thing there was something tragic, as seen in Dorian's portrait.
Basil's secrecy and idolization of Dorian add psychological complexity to his character.
Lord Henry seeks to dominate and experiment on Dorian without regard for consequences.
Dorian Gray is infatuated with Lord Henry's theories and wants to be constantly around him.
Lord Henry's influence on Dorian leads to tragic outcomes, reflecting his heartlessness.
Lord Henry uses aphorisms to convey his cynical and aesthetic viewpoints throughout the novel.
Transcripts
moving on to chapter three of the
picture of Darian gray and I'm going to
try my best to get through the few
points that I want to get through as
quickly as possible um it starts off
with Lord Henry visiting his uncle Lord
furore because he's desperate to find
out more details about Basil's friend
Dorian Gray um he arrives Lord Henry
arrives at his uncle's place and they
have a little conversation about how
youth think that money is everything and
when they get older they realize it is
and blah blah blah anyway Lord Henry
says I don't want money it is only
people who pay their bills who want that
and I never pay mine so just the little
things that he says throughout the novel
um create this greater idea and
understanding of the type of person that
Lord Henry is and it doesn't always
matter that you know he's not talking to
Dorian Gray it's not about um you know
only when he speaks to Dorian Gray it's
about this is the type of person he is
and this is how he talks to everybody
and to say something like oh I never pay
my bills um you think to yourself well
that's probably not true uh which
creates the idea or strengthens the
argument that he says things that he
doesn't mean that Lord Henry cannot
actually be taken seriously and basil
said that right at the start of the
novel he said I think that you're
actually an excellent husband probably
and that you you say a lot of what
things that you actually don't do um and
that we we can't take you seriously
because I bet you haven't done you know
you anything wrong you say all these
terrible things but I bet you don't
actually do them um so the fact that he
never pays his bills is probably a lie
he probably does what I want is
information he says to his uncle not
useful information of course useless
information I mean why would somebody
want useless information and I guess it
is kind of useless information but he
just interested in Dorian gry and he
wants to find out more Uncle says well I
can tell you anything that is in an
English Blue Book you think of an
English Blue Book in those days as
almost a record book of names and
addresses and things like that maybe
family linage and and whatever um Lord
Henry says well uh here is the last Lord
kelo's grandson so we know that Dorian
Gray's grandfather was Lord Kelo not a
very nice man um dorian's mother was a
Deo lady Margaret Deo who I've
highlighted in pink there just as a name
not really important but um just so if
you see that name you know that's
dorian's mother uh the uncle explains
that she was an extraordinary beautiful
girl which makes sense why Dorian is so
good-look and made all the men frantic
by running away with a penniless young
fellow a soldier actually in the Army
and of course she was of upper class uh
Lord kelo's daughter and so it would be
have been a bad image and unexpected and
well for Lord Kelo embarrassing for her
to go and fall in love with some poor
person some poor guy with a low rank in
the Army um the poor chap was killed in
a duel at spa a few months after the
marriage so what happened was you can
read all about this on page 42 but um
Lord
Kelso arranged for somebody to have a
duel with this man dorian's father and
have him killed because he didn't want
his daughter going around with this poor
fellow and we also discover that
dorian's mother died shortly after
giving birth to Dorian um within a year
of that whole duel um then the uncle
says I hope he will he Dorian will fall
into proper hands and well unfortunately
he does not fall into proper hands at
all does he he falls into Lord Henry's
hands and Lord Henry is an incredibly
negative toxic influence um on the right
hand side I've put that uh this
information makes Dorian a more tragic
figure which it definitely does um you
take Dorian who we're going to see his
downfall um but you see also that he had
a rough upbringing you know that he
didn't know his father at all or his
mother um and he was left to be looked
after this horrible man Lord Kelso who
actually arranged for the father to be
killed uh so we have a sense of sympathy
for Dorian so when he has his downfall
he you know it's tragic because he had a
tragic childhood and yeah he may be
wealthy and all that but um it's not
nice at all so moving on to page 44
behind every Exquisite thing that
existed there was something tragic and
if we think about that um is there any
truth to that well I don't know about
every but you know for us if you think
about a lot of well-known people famous
people celebrities inventors Etc uh they
often have quite a tragic backstory or
they grew up very poor or there was
abuse in the house Etc so I guess um
that could make sense um but if we you
know read further on into the novel and
we come back to this and we can think
well uh behind every Exquisite thing
that being Dorian Gray there's something
tragic well the portrait becomes
incredibly tragic um behind Dorian so
although Dorian May on the EXT area
outwardly not age and look perfect there
is in fact something tragic and terrible
uh behind the scenes literally page 45
Dorian was a marvelous type type of
person you know the fact that he had
this strange unusual childhood and um he
had purity of Boyhood innocent naive um
and then incredibly good-looking you
know uh there was nothing that one could
not do with him um like mold him like a
piece of clay which you know you
shouldn't do what a Pity it was that
such beauty was destined to fade well of
course we as well we're going to
discover that uh that's not really going
to happen at least not for some time um
but yes in in fact uh what a Pity that
he is going to get older according to
everybody else and basil well from a
psychological point of view how
interesting he was from a psychological
point inter viw remember at the start of
the novel um it goes to say that uh well
Basel actually says that he's he's grown
to love secrecy and he doesn't reveal
people his friends names and that
because it uh removes the secrecy kind
of thing around them and we also hear
stories of Basil disappearing for weeks
on end and and and and the fact that uh
he has this incredible idolization of
Dorian Gray and the painting and he
won't exhibit it and you know he won't
bear his soul and all that so he is
interesting in that sense because
psychologically trying to understand
what's going on in Basil's brain is is
like very very fascinating page 46 Lord
Henry would seek to dominate Dorian had
already indeed half done so yes we can
see that and um you
know um Lord Henry is not subtle about
his desire to dominate Dorian at all and
he's well aware of the fact that he is
doing it um he would make that wonderful
spirit his own so Lord Henry sees Dorian
as an experiment and that he can do what
he likes and say what he likes to Dorian
and Dorian will react and it's
immaterial how Dorian reacts and what
the outcome is to Lord Henry he doesn't
care you know who cares if if Dorian has
a tragic downfall or takes the advice
and it ends badly for him uh it's just
an experiment and we'll see that when
Lord Henry talks to Dorian about Cil
Vain's death as well as also being you
know a marvelous experience um that is
Lord Henry's view of of life and of
everything and of people there's no
regard for people and as we'll see later
Cil vain is is just an art form you know
that there's no rec that this is real
life and that's a real person who's
committed
suicide um also I've put there in
Chapter 2 Lord Henry said that all
influence is immoral it's bad so he's
hypocritical because now he's stating
that well all he is going to make Dorian
an experiment and and influence him
negatively um and so he's recognizing
that his own influence is not good but
he doesn't care
Lord Henry arrives at Aunt Agatha is
sorry aunt aunt aunt Agatha's luncheon
um where Dorian is already present and
of course Lord Henry arrives late
surprise surprise um Dorian bowed to him
shilly from the end of the table a flush
of pleasure stealing to his cheek when
Dorian Grace sees Lord Henry arrive he
is so happy he is filled with pleasure
because he is almost infatuated uh with
Lord Henry's um
theories page 49 lady Agatha at this
luncheon says to Dorian don't mind him
Lord Henry don't mind him my dear he
never means anything that he says and
she is quite true um and it's another
warning just like basil warned Dorian
not to take what Lord Henry says
seriously he doesn't actually live those
theories himself Lord Henry goes on to
say I can sympathize with everything
except suffering and you think to
yourself well that doesn't make sense
that's not very nice that's wrong we
should sympathize with people who suffer
but Lord Henry says nope it is too ugly
too horrible too distressing now of
course when somebody is suffering um you
try and sympathize with them it's not a
pleasant topic it's not a nice thing to
do um and what Lord Henry is saying is
in fact it's very ugly and it's ugly
horrible distressing and the whole thing
of hedonism is to experience pleasure at
all costs and so anything that distracts
from pleasure should not be thought of
should be avoided there is something
terribly morbid in the modern sympathy
with pain when you and I would say I
think it's great that people are
sympathetic with those who are suffering
and and in pain whether emotional pain
or physical pain Lord Henry says one
should sympathize with the color the
beauty the joy Jo of life we get the
aestheticism and the this new headism
that Lord Henry says that Society needs
the less said about life SES the
better well I suppose if we read later
uh we can see Dorian saying less about
his life's Source um the better because
the portrait is hidden away and uh it
would reveal all his conscience and his
terrible doings so he certainly uh
doesn't want to mention anything about
what he does but that's uh a little bit
later page 49 The Duchess who's at this
luncheon um and they have this whole
conversation at the table and all that
and and Lord Henry is saying all these
uh little epigrams and sayings and he
being very witty and being quite harsh
and that and The Duchess says to Lord
Henry you are really very comforting you
are really very comforting so it's
almost like Lord Henry is so witty the
guests are just Charmed armed by him
despite his clear selfishness and and
wrong ways of thinking and that's the
whole point of Lord Henry's character
that is how he has got Dorian to be
under his spell as it were page 50 Lord
Henry says to get back one's youth one
has to merily repeat one's folies
because the duchess asks I wish I could
be young again the only thing one never
regrets on one's mistakes and we think
no that's not true that's not that's not
good advice
um you know you
shouldn't uh if you do bad things or
silly things when you're young yeah it's
understandable you're young you didn't
know any different but in order to be
young again you must go and remake those
mistakes that's not good advice we were
supposed to learn from our mistakes page
51 Dorian Gray never took his gaze off
Lord Henry but sat like one under a
spell there it is that shows us how
obsessed Dorian almost is is with Lord
Henry how engrossed he is by what Lord
Henry has to say and we know as the
reader that's unfortunate because we
have the ability to see that what Lord
Henry says is not always good advice at
all um page 51 The Duchess leaves and
says goodbye Lord Henry you are quite
delightful and dreadfully demoralizing
and that sums up Lord Henry very well
what he has to say is delightful because
you're just intrigued by what he's
saying and sometimes uh he says these
sort of half truths um but they are
dreadfully demoralizing in that he just
tears life to pieces and he's so cynical
and critical and just it's just
poisonous and immoral very often what he
has to say page 52 after that one of the
guests at the table there uh Mr
ersin asks Lord Henry may I ask if you
really meant all that you said to us at
lunch you can go and read up exactly
what Lord Henry said in that but it
wasn't very nice stuff and Lord Henry
says I quite forget what I said was it
all very bad which just proves that Lord
Henry doesn't take what he says
seriously because he can't even remember
what he said he he just speaks he just
talks rubbish he likes being the center
of attention he likes having the sound
of his own voice going you know um Mr
kin says yes it was very bad indeed in
fact I consider you extremely dangerous
and if anything happens to our good
Duchess we shall all look on you as
being primarily responsible well nothing
really happens to the duchess but the
fact of the matter is is that that
proves from somebody else's point of
view Mr kin kin's point of view that
Lord Henry is or has the potential to be
incredibly uh influential to people
around him not in a good way that same
page um it says as Lord Henry was
passing out of the door Doran gr touched
him on the arm and said let me come with
you Lord Henry says but I thought you
had promised basil to go and see him and
Dorian says I would sooner come with you
so uh there's no loyalty there poor
basil who he's known far longer than
he's known Lord Henry um he rejects
basil he lets him down he declines you
know the invitation he there's no
loyalty I'm not going to you know I said
I'd go but I'm not going to go all I
want to do is go with you Lord Henry
it's almost as if as I said he's Dorian
is obsessed with Lord Henry Dorian has
fallen fully under the spell of Lord
Henry's
influence um and of course if we read
further on we know that it will end up
very badly for Dorian and that Lord
Henry's
uh what he says is in fact very bad
indeed because Dorian adopts those ways
of thinking and it ends badly for him um
Darian says I would sooner come with you
and will you will promise to talk to me
all the time promise that you're just
going to talk to me all the time all I
want now is to to look at life you know
you may come and look at it with me if
you care to and so at this point we can
argue that Lord Henry is heartless and
he's willing to develop Dorian with no
thought of any consequence dorian's
beauty is all that matters to him and
and you know this Behavior links Lord
Henry to aestheticism All About Beauty
um beauty is of primary importance and
Hedonism about experiencing pleasure
regardless of whether it's moral or
immoral Lord Henry at this lunch he's
using a number of
aphorisms aphorisms what is an aphorism
it's an expression that holds some
general truth or some principle you know
like if the shoe fits wear it that kind
of thing so um Lord Henry is using a lot
of these aphorisms a p h o r i s
Ms and that ends chapter 3
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