What Michael Pollan Learned from Quitting Caffeine for 3 Months

Summary

In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, Rogan discusses the profound effects of caffeine on society and consciousness. He shares his personal experience of abstaining from caffeine for three months, which led to a heightened sensitivity and a 'psychedelic' reaction upon reintroduction. The conversation delves into the historical impact of caffeine since its introduction to Western culture in the 1650s, its role in the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution, and the concept of the 'coffee break' as a productivity tool. Rogan also contemplates the plant's evolutionary reason for producing caffeine and the complex relationship humans have with this powerful stimulant.

Takeaways

• 🌿 The conversation aims to initiate a post-drug war dialogue about substances, including legal ones like caffeine, to understand their impact on society and consciousness.
• ☕ Joe Rogan's most potent drug experience was the first cup of coffee after a three-month caffeine abstinence, highlighting the profound effect of caffeine withdrawal and reintroduction.
• 🧠 Caffeine's absence can lead to a perceived decrease in cognitive function, as Rogan felt unable to concentrate or write, indicating a deep reliance on the stimulant for many.
• 🌱 The historical entry of caffeine into Western society in the 1650s marked a shift from an alcohol-centric culture to one that embraced a more sober and focused mindset.
• 📚 The Enlightenment and the Age of Reason in Europe are linked to the rise in coffee and tea consumption, suggesting that caffeine played a role in fostering intellectual and cultural movements.
• ⏰ Caffeine's introduction to the workforce, exemplified by the 'coffee break,' was a strategic move by employers to enhance productivity, showing the substance's role in the rise of capitalism and industrialization.
• 🌞 Caffeine's influence has been so profound that it altered the way humans interact with time, enabling work beyond daylight hours and contributing to the modern 24/7 economy.
• 🔄 Rogan's personal experiment with caffeine abstinence and reintroduction led to a cycle of withdrawal, intense pleasure, and then compulsive behavior, mirroring patterns seen in drug addiction.
• 🌱 Plants produce caffeine as a natural pesticide, yet it has unintended psychoactive effects on humans, raising questions about the evolutionary purposes of such plant chemicals.
• 🍵 Green tea, with its moderate caffeine content and additional alkaloids, provides a more gradual stimulation compared to coffee, offering a different approach to managing caffeine intake.

Q & A

What is the main topic of discussion in the provided transcript?

The main topic of discussion is the impact of caffeine on society and consciousness, including the historical context of its introduction to the West and its effects on productivity and daily life.

Why did the speaker decide to abstain from caffeine for three months?

The speaker decided to abstain from caffeine for three months as a challenge suggested by Roland Griffith, a researcher, to understand his relationship with caffeine and its effects on his consciousness.

What was the speaker's experience like during the first week without caffeine?

During the first week without caffeine, the speaker felt like he had contracted ADD, couldn't concentrate, and felt a veil between him and reality, making him feel not quite himself.

How did the speaker's sleep improve during the caffeine abstinence period?

The speaker's sleep improved significantly during the abstinence period, allowing him to sleep like a teenager for up to 14 hours, which he hadn't experienced since his teenage years.

What historical period is mentioned in the transcript as being influenced by the introduction of caffeine?

The transcript mentions the Enlightenment in France and the Age of Reason in England as historical periods influenced by the introduction of caffeine.

What is the significance of the coffee break mentioned in the transcript?

The coffee break is significant because it represents a time when employers provided a stimulant to workers and allowed them a break to consume it, which increased productivity and efficiency.

How did the speaker feel after consuming caffeine for the first time after three months of abstinence?

After consuming caffeine for the first time after three months of abstinence, the speaker felt waves of well-being and euphoria, followed by a compulsive desire to be productive.

What was the speaker's strategy to maintain the benefits of caffeine without becoming addicted?

The speaker's strategy was to consume caffeine only on Saturdays, once a week, to enjoy its benefits without becoming addicted and to maintain its potency.

Why do plants produce caffeine, according to the transcript?

Plants produce caffeine as a natural pesticide, as mentioned in the transcript, which is a fascinating aspect of how plants can create chemicals that affect human consciousness.

What is the average caffeine content in a cup of green tea compared to a cup of coffee?

The average caffeine content in a cup of green tea is about a third of what you get in a cup of coffee, as stated in the transcript.

Outlines

00:00

🌿 Caffeine's Impact on Consciousness and History

The speaker discusses the profound effects of caffeine on human consciousness and society. They recount their personal experience of abstaining from caffeine for three months, which was challenging and led to a heightened sense of reality upon reintroduction. The historical significance of caffeine's introduction to Western culture in the 1650s is highlighted, noting how it replaced the constant state of inebriation with a more sober and focused mindset. The speaker also explores the correlation between the rise of caffeine consumption and significant cultural shifts, such as the Enlightenment and the Industrial Revolution.

05:01

🏭 The Birth of the Coffee Break and Its Impact on Productivity

This section delves into the origins of the coffee break, which began during World War II at a necktie manufacturing company called Wigwam Weavers. The company introduced coffee breaks to improve worker efficiency, and it worked. The speaker reflects on the coffee break as a tool for employers to enhance productivity and how it has become ingrained in the workforce culture. They also touch upon the broader implications of caffeine on the rise of capitalism and the ability to work outside the natural rhythms of the sun.

10:02

☕ A Personal Journey with Caffeine: Withdrawal and Rediscovery

The speaker shares their personal journey after three months of caffeine abstinence, including the benefits to their sleep and the sense of self-righteousness they felt around caffeine users. They describe the intense experience of drinking coffee again, which initially brought waves of well-being and euphoria but later led to irritability and compulsive behavior. The narrative includes the speaker's strategy to maintain the benefits of caffeine by using it sparingly and their eventual struggle with making exceptions to this rule. The discussion concludes with a reflection on the plant's role in producing caffeine and its broader implications on human behavior.

Keywords

💡Caffeine

Caffeine is a naturally occurring stimulant found in coffee, tea, and other plants. It is a central nervous system stimulant that can temporarily ward off drowsiness and restore alertness. In the video, caffeine is discussed as a legal and widely used drug that has a profound impact on society and consciousness. The speaker shares a personal experience of going without caffeine for three months, highlighting the difficulty of withdrawal and the significant change in perception and productivity upon reintroduction.

💡Psychedelic

Psychedelic substances are a class of hallucinogenic drugs that can induce profound alterations in perception, mood, and cognitive processes. The term is used in the video to describe the intense experience the speaker had with caffeine after a long period of abstinence, suggesting that the absence of caffeine can lead to a heightened sensitivity to its effects, akin to a psychedelic experience.

💡Roland Griffith

Roland Griffith is mentioned as a psychedelic researcher and former world-leading expert on caffeine. His suggestion to the speaker to abstain from caffeine for three months is a pivotal point in the narrative, leading to a deep exploration of the relationship between humans and this widely consumed substance.

💡Enlightenment

The Enlightenment refers to an intellectual and philosophical movement in Europe during the 17th and 18th centuries that emphasized reason, individualism, and skepticism. In the context of the video, the speaker correlates the rise of coffee and tea consumption with the Enlightenment, suggesting that caffeine may have contributed to the clear, rational thinking that characterized this period.

💡Industrial Revolution

The Industrial Revolution was a period of significant industrialization that took place during the 18th and 19th centuries, leading to major changes in manufacturing and the economy. The video discusses how caffeine use might have facilitated the Industrial Revolution by enabling workers to maintain focus and productivity during long hours of labor, including night shifts.

💡Coffee Break

A coffee break is a short rest from work, often involving the consumption of coffee or tea, to refresh and recharge. The video provides a historical account of the origin of the coffee break, linking it to a company that found increased productivity among its workers when they were given a break to consume caffeine. This concept is explored as a way for employers to enhance worker efficiency while also providing a benefit to the employees.

💡Baseline Consciousness

Baseline consciousness refers to the normal state of awareness or mental activity that a person experiences when not under the influence of any substances. The video discusses how caffeine has become a part of the baseline consciousness for many people, suggesting that it has become a societal norm to rely on caffeine to maintain alertness and productivity.

💡Golden Age

The term 'Golden Age' is used to describe a period of great prosperity, creativity, and achievement. In the video, the speaker theorizes that the Arab world's early access to coffee contributed to its own Golden Age, characterized by significant advancements in science, literature, and culture.

💡Wolfgang Schivelbusch

Wolfgang Schivelbusch is a German historian mentioned in the video for his work on psychoactive substances. His book 'Taste of Paradise' is recommended by the speaker as it explores the cultural and historical significance of drugs, including caffeine, and their impact on societies.

💡Addiction

Addiction is a complex condition, a brain disorder, characterized by compulsive engagement in rewarding stimuli despite adverse consequences. The video discusses the speaker's personal experience with caffeine withdrawal and the subsequent return to consumption, touching on the themes of addiction and the psychological and physiological effects of caffeine.

💡Caffeine Withdrawal

Caffeine withdrawal refers to a set of symptoms that occur after stopping or reducing caffeine use. The video details the speaker's experience with caffeine withdrawal, including symptoms like irritability, difficulty concentrating, and a feeling of being disconnected from reality, highlighting the dependency that can develop from regular caffeine use.

Highlights

Starting a post-drug war conversation about drugs with a focus on caffeine, a legal and widely used substance.

The profound experience of having the first cup of coffee after three months of abstinence, describing it as psychedelic.

The challenge of going without caffeine for three months and the impact on productivity and daily life.

Feeling a veil between reality and perception while caffeine-free, questioning what it means for one's self to be caffeinated.

The historical entry of caffeine into the West in the 1650s and its impact on society and consciousness.

The cultural shift from a world where people were often drunk to one where caffeinated beverages promoted sobriety and clarity.

The correlation between the introduction of coffee and tea and the Enlightenment and Age of Reason in Europe.

The role of caffeine in enabling the Industrial Revolution and the shift to more focused work environments.

The origin of the coffee break and its historical significance in increasing workplace productivity.

The idea that the coffee break is a strategy by employers to extract more value from employees.

The personal benefits of caffeine withdrawal, such as improved sleep and a sense of self-righteousness.

The intense experience of consuming caffeine after a long period of abstinence, comparing it to the effects of cocaine.

The compulsion to be productive and organized following the reintroduction of caffeine.

The strategy of limiting caffeine intake to once a week to maintain its effects and avoid addiction.

The difficulty in maintaining caffeine restriction and the tendency to make exceptions under stress or deadlines.

Exploring the use of green tea as an alternative source of caffeine with a more gradual effect.

The fascinating concept of plants producing caffeine as a natural pesticide and its impact on human cognition.

Transcripts

the jurogan experience and

one of the things i'm trying to do with

uh this is your mind on plants is start

that

post-drug war conversation about drugs

which is one of the reasons i included

caffeine you know a totally legal drug

that everybody uses

um what does that have to teach us in a

way one of the most powerful drug

experiences i've had in my life was the

first cup of coffee after

three months off really it was

psychedelic

really incredible yeah come on try it

try getting off caffeine three months

three months without caffeine how am i

gonna do a podcast you may have to take

a hiatus i'm gonna run out of things to

talk about

i'll fall asleep it was really hard i

did it actually it's a suggestion of

roland griffith

who uh you know the psychedelic

researcher who before that was the

world's leading expert on caffeine

um and uh and i was interviewing him

about caffeine for this chapter

and he said well you're never gonna

understand your relationship to caffeine

until you get off it

so it was kind of a dare and it was

really hard it was one of the hardest

things i've done

really i was a mess for how long

three months you're a mess

until i was functional after a month um

the first week i was not functional at

all

i felt like i had contracted add

i could not stay on track

everything the periphery just kept

intruding on my thinking i couldn't

write

i mean writing is the most linear thing

you can do right right and

you and it's all about concentration

obviously and um and i couldn't

concentrate

and i i felt like there was this veil

between me and reality

that you know i was not quite seeing

getting

and it was weird i didn't feel myself

for the whole time and i thought what

does that mean

it means yourself is caffeinated

and and that is baseline consciousness

for me

and for many people and that's not a bad

thing

but i think we have a debt to these

plants that we we owe them

um and so i spent a lot of time

in that researching that chapter looking

back in history for when caffeine

enters the west and it doesn't happen

until the 1650s in europe

so we actually have a before and after

which we don't with a lot of drugs

because they just go back you know

millennia

um and before caffeine it was a very

different world

and a very different consciousness

people were drunk

a lot of the time buzzed almost all of

the time

people drank morning noon and night

because it was safer than water

right water was really how you got

diseases if you fermented things even

low

you know low alcohol it killed a lot of

the microbes um

so people even kids you gave your kids

hard cider for breakfast

um wow and this was true in america up

until the 1800s

up until prohibition um but anyway um

caffeine comes along in the 1650s and

and tea and chocolate and coffee all

arrive in the same decade in england

it's kind of like

a great decade right and um

and things start to change in the form

of coffee coffee and tea

and chocolate which also has caffeine in

it and

so what would they they had never

experienced coffee before the 1600s

that's right they had in the arab world

they had it they'd had it from like 1200

or something like that

supposedly it was discovered in 800s by

a

herder in like ethiopia who noticed that

his

goats were getting very frisky when they

ate this particular berry and would stay

up all night

and so yeah so he kind of like started

experimenting or

he brought it to these monks and they

made a drink and it's like it makes

sense that

uh it was in the arab world because if

you think about all the science that was

being done in the arab world all the

literature back then

so my theory is that the arab world had

coffee first and had this incredible

golden age

yes and there is a historian of of um

psychoactives named uh wolfgang

shivelbush and he

correlates isn't that wonderful german

of course

wolfgang shivelbush it's a great book

it's called taste of paradise

highly recommend it um and he said this

was the perfect drug for the culture

that invented mathematics

and had this incredible and it helped

the culture in two ways

one was as safe as alcohol made water

boiling it made it much safer and

coffee and tea of course both require

boiling water no one

ate a drink boiling water uh or hot

beverages before

so this gave this incredible public

health boost to these places

and then you have the drug that

basically

fosters a kind of more linear rational

focused way of thinking

and so there is a lot of evidence

linking

coffee and tea consumption with the

enlightenment in

france and with the age of reason in

england

and people in the 1600s started writing

about it so like wow people you know we

have this

new civil and sober drink that we

that and it was so popular because it

was new that people drank less

and they used more caffeine and that

i think makes possible things like the

industrial revolution because

you know when you're when you're doing

physical labor outdoors which was most

of history right

you could be buzzed you didn't have to

know what time it was you work from sun

up to sundown

there were beer breaks actually on farms

in england they would give you beer

because

it gave you calories and made you happy

um but

when you start moving into like running

machines

and doing double entry bookkeeping you

need a clearer head

and when you start moving toward night

shifts and overnight shifts

you couldn't do that without caffeine

and that's when it begins there's

a whole new like it freed us from the

rhythms of the sun

which dictated everything in western

culture

you worked you could only work till the

sun went down um

so it had a profound effect on

capitalism the rise of capitalism

and the clearest illustration of that

that i came across

is the coffee break where did that come

from

the coffee break actually has a history

we know the company that came up with it

and it was a necktie manufacturer in

denver

called wigwam weavers really and wigwam

weavers

made these very intricate silk neckties

and during world war

ii they lost all their best loom

operators to the war effort

so they hired these old guys to do it

you know who weren't

getting drafted and they couldn't do it

very well then they hired these women

to do it and they could do it

beautifully and they were very intricate

patterns very complicated looms

i mean you've seen how they you know the

patterns on neckties and um the women

could do it really well but only for

about four or five hours

so they called a meeting and the owners

said to the

workers what could we do we have to

improve uh your efficiency and you know

we need more output

and the women said well give us a coffee

break um they didn't call it that

initially and um give us some time at

like 10

in the morning and four in the afternoon

and give us some coffee and tea

so we started doing it and overnight

like their productivity and efficiency

goes up

quality control goes up and uh so he

institutes the coffee break

and um think about it your employer

gives you a drug and then gives you time

off in which to ingest

it during the workday yeah why would

they do that

because it contributes mightily so the

coffee break might seem like it's

something your boss is giving you but

it's a way to extract more value from

you and i'm sure

employees that have little breaks and

you get to enjoy

just a little bit of free time they'll

be more

they'll be happier employees so yeah

they'll probably be more productive like

the the county mr bezos yeah

and he should institute i don't know if

he has coffee breaks he wants to be on

adderall

yeah 24 7 running to the next package

yeah

tell me about your experience what your

experience was like with the three

months off and then

then having the caffeine so i had this

three months that was

really unpleasant um the only things

that were positive about it

was i slept like a teenager it really

did improve my sleep

i had some some great sleeps like i

remember from when i was a teenager you

know when you can sleep 14 hours

um that was really good i also

felt and i'm not proud of this

self-righteous

so you know and i would i remember i

remember one morning

having to get a 6 a.m flight and

i had to get up and get myself moving on

mint tea

okay and i get to the airport and it's

just when they're opening the pizza and

the starbucks and the line is like

snaking you know for those people

getting on 6 a.m flights

and i'm looking at these people and they

look like junkies you see in amsterdam

they look so pathetic and you know that

they were hooked and they needed their

they needed their fix and um and they

looked kind of miserable and withdrawal

was starting

because that first cup of coffee is not

about the pleasure it gives us it's

really about stopping withdrawal

symptoms which are beginning

overnight because you haven't had it for

24 hours um

and i felt self-righteous i'm not proud

of that

because i and i knew that i was going to

rejoin them as soon as i could

right so when i hit the three-month mark

i i decided and i need it for the ending

of the piece

uh to have a cup and see this was gonna

tell me

you know because drugs are very

different the first time you take them

right before your body is accustomed to

them

so i had this first cup and i gave a lot

of thought to where i would have it i

thought about

the original pete's is in my

neighborhood the very first pete's

but i don't love their coffee it can be

kind of burnt tasting

and so i went to a place called the

cheese board which is a

cafe bakery in my neighborhood and

they have a little pocket park out on

the street and i got a

cup got a special which is uh it's sort

of like a cappuccino but more caf more

coffee and less milk like a flat white

in australia

and we sat my wife and i judith sat

there and um i drank this drink and

it was so good

i mean i just felt these waves of

well-being and then it turned into

euphoria

and um i was like wow this is such a

strong drug i had no idea it was like

cocaine or something and um and that

lasted for

maybe 20 minutes but then something

turned that was kind of interesting

across the street there was a um a

garbage truck that was

uh grabbing hold of two garbage plastic

garbage cans and shaking them like this

and making this horrible racket

and uh and it really got under my skin i

was getting kind of

irritable and i said to judith can we go

home

you know and and i felt like i got to

get something done i felt kind of

compulsive

wow and so we walked home and i went to

my office

and i just had this desire to get [ __ ]

done

and so what i did was this is really

weird i

unsubscribed from like a hundred list

serves that i was getting on my email

that were really annoying

i just killed them one after another and

after that and then after i finished

that

i went through the sweater

uh in my closet all the sweaters in my

closet

and i threw out some i gave some away

and i it sounds like meth

behavior this is what i hear i have a

friend of mine

i don't know date a girl was on meth and

she always would clean

she'll come home and organize and clean

things he's like so

if your girl starts cleaning incessantly

she might be on amazon

yeah i was really compulsive uh and very

productive

and and i said to my did you keep

drinking it throughout the day

well this is no but i was tempted to

so i said to myself how can i hold on to

this power that this drug has because if

i start using it every day i'm going to

lose it i'm just going to be another

caffeine you know addict and um and i

came up with this idea only do it on

saturdays

once a week and i did that for a while

so that very day after cleaning out my

closet i worked in the garden

and and there were some plants that

needed replacement

and uh so i started driving down to this

garden center called um

flower land and um and i realized why

did i pick that flower why did i pick

that nursery and say oh they have this

airstream

where they sell espresso drinks right

out in front it was like

it was the voice of the addict putting

me in position to get another cup

the same day and and so i resisted that

and i did this saturday thing for a

while and it worked pretty well i really

look forward to saturdays and i got

i got a lot done um on saturday on

saturday

[Laughter]

but i wasn't addicted anymore so i could

get hard

but then gradually it was like um you

know it's thursday and i got a deadline

and this would really help me get over

the deadline

so so i started making exceptions it was

complete addict thinking right did you

try any other forms of caffeine

um i would yeah i would i would do green

tea

as i'm drinking now as a kind of green

tea is a very good

um source of caffeine because it's

really even there's another alkaloid in

it that stretches out the effect

so you don't get a jolt but it kind of

keeps you nicely titrated what is the

caffeine content of green tea

the average cup it's probably a third of

what you get in a cup of coffee

um it varies amazingly like if the if

the

tips were uh plucked you know when

they're brand new you know

first flush green tea that has a lot

more caffeine and it's a lot more

valuable

so there's a lot of variables that go

into it the plant is producing caffeine

of course as a pesticide

right and that was a whole question i

looked at it's like

why do plants produce these things that

have these effects on our minds

how did that isn't that amazing that a

plant could devise a chemical

that can unlock a receptor in your brain

that's astonishing

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