Should your online course have community? | MC 024 w/ Jordan Godbey

Summary

In this engaging conversation, Jordan Godby, founder of Growth Community, shares his journey from SEO specialist to helping experts monetize their audience through community building. He discusses the evolution of his digital marketing expertise, the pivotal shift from service-based to product-based business, and the power of community in driving transformation and success. The discussion highlights the importance of specialization, leveraging high-ticket programs, and the psychology behind value and pricing in the world of online courses and coaching.

Takeaways

• 😀 Jordan Godby, the founder of Growth Community, specializes in helping experts monetize their audience and expertise through community building.
• 🌟 The importance of SEO was highlighted as a powerful tool for Jordan to start his online business journey, enabling him to compete with large companies.
• 💡 Jordan's business evolution involved expanding from SEO into web development, digital marketing, and eventually running a full-service digital marketing agency.
• 🔍 The realization that a broad range of services was not as unique as initially thought led Jordan to consider specialization as a path for growth.
• 🛠️ Jordan's experience with HubSpot introduced him to the world of productizing services and focusing on larger B2B contracts, but it wasn't a long-term fit due to the lack of differentiation.
• 🚀 A shift in Jordan's career came when he moved from agency work to creating an online course in the medical field, specifically for radiology and MRI, which allowed him to apply his digital marketing skills to a new challenge.
• 🏆 The value of transitioning from a service-based business to a product-based business was underscored as a way to potentially create more value without being limited by time or client numbers.
• 🤔 The discussion highlighted the difference between information and intelligence, suggesting that communities can provide the context and sequence of actions needed for real transformation.
• 🔑 Jordan emphasized the role of community in supporting learners through the implementation phase of their education, which is critical for achieving desired outcomes.
• 💰 The script touched on the psychology of pricing and value, noting that high-ticket programs often include elements of mindset and identity shifts that are essential for success.
• 🏝️ Finally, the conversation wrapped up with a light-hearted look at Jordan's favorite ice cream and the challenge of choosing between chocolate chip cookies and oatmeal raisin.

Q & A

Who is Jordan Godby and what is his professional focus?

Jordan Godby is the founder of Growth Community, and he helps experts monetize their audience and expertise through community building.

How did Jordan Godby's journey in digital marketing begin?

Jordan's journey began in college where he was interested in computers. He started with SEO while living in France, trying to make money online, and landed his first client remotely.

What was the turning point for Jordan Godby in his career?

The turning point was when Jordan decided to specialize and focus on building online courses, coaching, and community for experts, moving away from being a generalist digital marketer.

What is the significance of the community in online courses according to Jordan Godby?

According to Jordan, the community is the new foundation for online courses, providing support, interaction, and a sense of belonging, which increases the success rate of the course participants.

How does Jordan Godby define the difference between old school courses and modern community-based courses?

Old school courses are typically video-based and lack interaction, while modern community-based courses focus on engagement, support, and practical implementation, providing a more transformative experience.

What is the role of mindset in high-ticket course programs?

Mindset plays a crucial role in high-ticket programs as it addresses the internal beliefs and identity shifts necessary for participants to fully embrace the transformation and implement what they've learned.

How does Jordan Godby perceive the value of information in the age of infinite online content?

Jordan believes that while information is abundant, what's missing is the application and context, which is where communities and coaching come into play to provide personalized guidance and support.

What is the common challenge that Jordan Godby sees in the traditional online course model?

The common challenge is the low completion and success rate, as many courses are designed in a way that is difficult to integrate into the busy and noisy modern world.

What advice would Jordan Godby give to his younger self based on his current experience?

He would advise his younger self to focus on becoming a productized service business and to specialize in delivering a specific transformation or outcome repeatedly.

How does Jordan Godby view the future of online learning?

Jordan sees the future of online learning moving towards community-based models that offer more than just information, but also include support, interaction, and practical implementation.

What is the key takeaway from Jordan Godby's experience with building an online course in the medical field?

The key takeaway is the importance of specialization and the opportunity to create a unique product that fills a specific need in the market, leveraging both expertise and technology.

Outlines

00:00

🤝 Introduction and Background

The host expresses excitement about having Jordan Godby, founder of Growth Community, on the show. Jordan explains his journey from being a computer enthusiast to monetizing his expertise in SEO and community building. The conversation delves into their shared history, meeting at a cocktail party, and the evolution of Jordan's consultancy and business ventures. The host prompts Jordan to recount his professional development, from college to the present.

05:01

🌐 The Evolution of Digital Marketing Services

Jordan details his progression in the digital marketing field, starting with SEO and expanding into web development, analytics, and email marketing. He describes the transition from an SEO freelancer to running a full-service digital marketing agency, servicing larger clients and handling multiple aspects of digital marketing. The discussion touches on the challenges of differentiation in a saturated market and the realization of the need for specialization.

10:01

🔧 Specialization and Scaling Business

The conversation explores the shift in Jordan's business approach from broad service offerings to specialization, particularly after merging with a business partner with HubSpot experience. They targeted mid-market B2B companies, but Jordan felt the services were too undifferentiated. He emphasizes the importance of productizing services and focusing on specific outcomes to stand out in the market.

15:03

🚀 Transitioning to Online Courses

Jordan shares his transition from agency work to creating online courses, motivated by a desire for more control over his work and life. He was invited to lead an online course project in the medical field, specifically radiology and MRI, which allowed him to apply his digital marketing skills in a new context. This marked a significant shift in his career, moving from service-based to product-based business.

20:05

🛠 The Value of Community in Learning

The discussion highlights the importance of community in online learning, contrasting traditional video-based courses with community-centered approaches. Jordan explains how communities provide support, motivation, and a sense of belonging, which are crucial for the success and transformation that learners seek. He emphasizes the paradigm shift from information delivery to community engagement in online education.

25:06

💡 Insights on Community Building and High-Ticket Programs

Jordan shares insights on the surprising aspects of building communities around courses, particularly the psychology behind high-ticket programs. He discusses the importance of mindset and identity shifts in achieving transformational outcomes, and how communities can address these deeper psychological aspects that video courses alone cannot.

30:06

🎂 Lighthearted Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The conversation concludes with lighthearted questions about dessert preferences, followed by a more serious discussion about the value and pricing of knowledge and expertise. Jordan reflects on the scalability and impact of high-priced programs and the importance of recognizing the value of intimate, high-value communities.

35:07

📢 Call to Action and Sign Off

The host wraps up the interview with a call to action, inviting listeners to join an email list for more insights on productizing expertise and scaling impact. He thanks Jordan for the valuable discussion and looks forward to future interactions, ending the show on a positive note.

Keywords

💡Monetize

To monetize refers to the process of converting non-monetary assets or potential customers into income. In the video's context, Jordan Godby discusses helping experts monetize their audience and expertise through community building. It is a key concept as it ties into the main theme of leveraging one's knowledge and influence to generate revenue.

💡Community Building

Community building is the process of creating and nurturing a group of like-minded individuals who share common interests or goals. In the script, Jordan Godby is described as helping experts to monetize their expertise through this method, emphasizing its importance in the modern business landscape for fostering engagement and loyalty.

💡SEO (Search Engine Optimization)

SEO is the practice of increasing the quantity and quality of traffic to a website through organic search engine results. Jordan talks about his initial foray into online business through SEO, highlighting its power to level the playing field between small entities and large corporations in the digital space.

💡Digital Marketing

Digital marketing encompasses the various efforts to promote products or services through digital channels like search engines, social media, email, and websites. The video discusses Jordan's journey from specializing in SEO to broadening his scope to include various aspects of digital marketing.

💡Productized Service

A productized service refers to a service that is packaged and sold like a product, with a clear value proposition and a fixed price. Jordan mentions the importance of becoming a productized service business and choosing an outcome to specialize in, which is a key strategy for scaling a business and clarifying its value to customers.

💡HubSpot

HubSpot is a software platform that offers a variety of marketing, sales, and customer service tools. In the script, Jordan discusses his experience with HubSpot as part of his agency services, indicating a shift towards specialization and productization in his business model.

💡Online Courses

Online courses are educational programs delivered via the internet, allowing for self-paced or instructor-led learning. Jordan's narrative includes a transition from agency work to creating online courses, particularly in the medical field, emphasizing the shift towards digital education as a scalable business model.

💡Mindset

Mindset refers to an individual's established set of beliefs or attitudes that can shape their perception, behavior, and overall approach to life. The video discusses the importance of mindset in high-ticket programs, where the psychological shift is as crucial as the skills being taught for achieving success and transformation.

💡Transformation

Transformation implies a profound change in form, appearance, or character. In the video, the concept of transformation is central to the discussion of high-ticket programs, where the goal is not just to impart knowledge but to enable significant personal or professional change in the participants.

💡Mastermind

A mastermind group is a peer-to-peer mentoring concept used to foster collaboration and idea exchange among like-minded individuals. The script mentions mastermind programs as a form of high-value, high-ticket training where the focus is on intimate, impactful interaction rather than on course content per se.

💡Value Pricing

Value pricing is a pricing strategy where the price of a product or service is set based on the value it provides to the customer, rather than its cost of production. The video discusses the concept of value pricing in the context of high-ticket programs, where the price reflects the potential transformational impact on the participant's life or business.

Highlights

Jordan Godby, founder of Growth Community, shares his journey from SEO specialist to helping experts monetize their audience through community building.

The importance of SEO in digital marketing and how Jordan leveraged it to compete with large companies is discussed.

Jordan's evolution from an SEO freelancer to a full-service digital marketing agency owner is highlighted.

The transition from generalist to specialist and the benefits of focusing on a niche are explored.

Insights into the value of community in online courses for higher completion rates and practical implementation.

The role of mindset and identity in achieving transformational outcomes through high-ticket programs.

How high-ticket programs address both the tactical skills and the strategic mindset required for success.

The significance of community support in overcoming resistance and staying the course in personal and professional development.

The paradigm shift from video-based courses to community-centered learning experiences.

The challenges of transitioning from a service-based business to a product-based business model.

Jordan's experience with HubSpot and the lessons learned from specializing in a specific platform.

The realization of the need for a community approach in online learning to enhance engagement and success.

The impact of creating an online course in the medical field and the unique challenges it presented.

The importance of aligning business goals with personal values and the journey to finding that alignment.

The surprising discovery of the power of community in enhancing the effectiveness of high-ticket programs.

Jordan's advice for consultants looking to productize their expertise and scale their impact.

The concluding thoughts on the importance of community, identity, and mindset in personal and professional development.

Transcripts

my man I am so glad to have you on I'm

so glad we're doing this and so many

questions that I have for you but for

the people who are listening and who

have no idea who you are and what you do

how would you describe a tool yeah

thanks Mark my name is Jordan Godby I am

the founder of growth community and I

help experts monetize Their audience and

monetize their expertise through

Community Building

we've known each other at this point now

for

10 years

10 plus years actually and I'm trying to

remember which city did we first meet up

in uh

was it DC or was this somewhere else I

think it was first in DC when I drove to

your house for a random cocktail party

get together thing sounds about right

and then after that uh maybe like a few

months later in Atlanta

uh yes because I was somewhere in my

head I was just like I know we've done

multiple cities it's been a while uh and

and it's really cool to have just seen

the different evolutions of your

consultancy your business bundles and

everything which I think is actually

going to be a fantastic place for us to

start if you had to take us through a

high level of how you got to where it is

that you were now

what does that even look like

a lot of putting one foot in front of

the other and just going deep so

the the back story would be in college

uh it was always kind of a computer guy

and was living in France actually for a

couple of years finishing up my last few

years of school couldn't really work

locally so I resorted to the internet

and I'm like I gotta find a way to make

this internet thing put dollars in my

bank account so I started going hard on

SEO and I just found it to be

unbelievable that anybody in the world

can play this SEO game for free and go

head to head with the biggest companies

in the world and actually outrank them

and have your little page that maybe you

wrote by hand with HTML ranking higher

than these you know Fortune 500

companies and so to me that was

incredible what an opportunity in power

that's in the reach of everyone

and I just started selling that skill so

I tried monetizing it a couple different

ways through things like Google AdSense

and affiliate marketing but then I

realized that you know those times those

things a lot of times they pay cents and

they pay dollars and I wanted to make

hundreds or thousands of dollars and the

fastest way for me to do that was to

work with a client so I just started

looking on my local Craigslist and I

found someone saying hey I just got this

website I need some SEO help I was

living in France and they had no idea

but we just started having conversation

and I landed my first client while I was

in France I had a scheduled trip back

home the next week and the client said

yeah come in and we'll sign everything

and I'll hand you a check and I was like

perfect I'll be there and that was

really the start of my journey and it's

just been a thousand steps forward since

then that's really cool I resonate with

your story because my journey into the

online business and online marketing

world was also through search engine

optimization like yourself like at least

for me it was grad school I took a

online course and taught me the

fundamentals of SEO and I was like wait

a second if this online course is

teaching grandmothers how to like

outrank these you know Big Boys in like

Google searches like I I have a shot at

this I think I can figure this out and

so then I did you know and uh it's it's

it's amazing how much uh the world opens

up you know and

but you've expanded well beyond search

engine optimization what happened next

yeah

um so I started getting more clients

started doing more SEO and then I you

know in like some of those games like

Age of Empires where you're exploring

the map you know the map's all black and

you can only see a tiny little bit and

you have to walk out into the fog and

then you expose more of the map and you

see what's going on I feel like that was

kind of my journey in digital marketing

so I just went on down the SEO rabbit

hole but then you realize you Explore

More of the map and the website itself

is a huge component a huge piece of real

estate that you can that's tightly

coupled and highly connected right and

so I started realizing hey most of my

clients have really bad websites so I

can do all the SEO I want but if you

have a terrible website that isn't clear

isn't convincing isn't you know mobile

friendly it doesn't convert then what's

the point so it started really leading

me into things like web development and

that's not something that I necessarily

wanted to do or I wasn't a programmer

but I was I've always been a bit of a

hacker so I've always been able to

figure it out and that's something that

I've loved it has been learning new

things so I just went on a journey over

the next 10 years of being pulled from

one thing to the next thing to the next

thing and figuring out what are all of

those puzzle pieces that you need to

connect to have the full map the full

image of the digital marketing world and

so that led to things like once we've

got the website up you know can you run

Facebook ads sure I'll figure that out

let's do it let's do Facebook ads all

right how are these ads performing let's

you know show me some analytics yeah

let's dive down the rabbit hole let's go

hardcore on the analytics side and slice

and dice the segments and and all of the

different metrics and look at the trends

and and stuff like that and um

turned into email marketing turned into

the building of the funnels and the

sales pages and so

that was you know I really sort of went

from being that SEO freelancer to being

a full-service digital marketing agency

and that was very exciting got to work

with bigger and bigger clients where I

wasn't just doing one piece I started

doing three pieces or five pieces or ten

pieces

um and I learned a lot through that

experience it was a a lot of ups and

downs learning things I'm good at things

I'm not as good at things I like more

and don't like more

um but eventually got to the point where

I decided you know I don't think this is

going to be my long-term path in terms

of the the focus it was very

undifferentiated it was very like me too

in the beginning I thought that was so

special and unique just to just to be

someone who provided those things

because it was maybe a bit rarer in the

earlier days of the internet now you can

find a lot of those people and they're

kind of a dime a dozen so started

thinking more about specialization and

what would that look like for me

that is great because you just let into

the next thing that I wanted to ask you

because we've had a couple guests on one

in particular that comes to mind drew

Charles

he has a background in video

storytelling uh creating documentaries

for entrepreneurs and basically people

have run out uh thought leaders as well

and what's interesting about his

business model is that his deliverables

have never changed but his

specialization types of clients that he

works with as well as like the size of

the contracts just continue to like

Skyrocket so I was curious because it

seems like you took a different path at

least in what you just described with

broadening the product and service Suite

what

why why why not why didn't you

specialize yet up to that point mm-hmm

yeah so I was really young you know 20

21 22 23 right at the end of college

kind of middle end of college getting

out so I still lacked a lot of

experience and I was so interested and

curious about everything that's one of

my my traits is that I could just become

very passionate very obsessed and very

interested in in almost anything because

I can find it very interesting so

um I saw it as a great opportunity to

learn and grow and get more experience

across that whole landscape and go

really wide and I think I realized I've

never been a super hardcore specialist

in any one area of my life in many ways

and many moments I envied those people I

wish I was those people I've always said

you know I thought to myself at

different points oh if I could have just

been that hardcore programmer that knows

those specific languages and specific

Technologies seems like life is so easy

for them you know get a job anywhere and

post a resume and it's so clear whereas

for me it's always been a bit more vague

a bit more broad of what is it that you

do exactly and who do you serve and

sometimes when you're more of a jack of

all trades or generalist it can be hard

to charge top dollar and also back in

those days I didn't have all the

experience that I do have now so my my

objective was to learn and grow and find

my Niche and what what do I like to do

and want to do most

and I did have a an evolution in that

process of uh similar to I think what

you just described so I actually met a

business partner about maybe six years

into that journey and he introduced me

to the world of HubSpot so she was

running an agency and he said hey let's

merge up you've got all the digital

marketing skills but you don't really

know anything about HubSpot and he had

some HubSpot experience so we combined

those two things so we did become more

Nation more specialized focusing on

larger contracts larger B2B companies

but we were still doing all of those

same types of services but it did become

a bit more packaged and productized I

have like two thought threads in

response to that I'll see if I can like

I want to dive into like both of them at

the same time because this is getting

really juicy okay

so with HubSpot what I found is that

people who have like a consulting or

agency background that then migrate to

delivering uh with HubSpot

tends to be less small business going a

little bit almost more like mid-market

and maybe even like Enterprise said Look

What level yeah were you planning to

serve or did you serve uh when you

decided to do that

yeah so before making that switch I

would say I was much more small business

Mom and Pops that kind of thing and then

once making the switch into HubSpot we

were mid-market for sure so we were

probably going after companies more

around like the three to five million up

to 15 20 25 million uh maybe even 50

million but I would say it wasn't

large-scale Enterprise that is helpful

context and so then for the second

thought thread that came from that that

I wanted to dive into out with you

we're talking about uh specialization

and

the thing that I'm super curious about

is

with the

Ascent up the value uh ladder you hadn't

so you specialize down by you know the

the the level of business that you serve

but had you also then narrowed the

product slash service offering suite at

that point yet

or no

not really I would say it was probably

the same stuff yeah okay same stuff and

SEO websites landing pages funnels paid

advertising

and so like Boutique agency but for

mid-market is that that's right about

right

and so so we're at that point of the

journey

if you could go back and tell yourself

uh any advice knowing everything that

you know now is there anything that you

would tell yourself

yes I would say become a productized

service business and really pick an

outcome

pick a transformation that you can get

really really good at delivering over

and over again and then just get crystal

clear and very Niche very specific so

you know HubSpot was not that uh that my

experience was that

there was almost no differentiation

between us and all of the other HubSpot

agencies because what I came to just to

discover or realize was that we were

almost just running the HubSpot Playbook

and that Playbook looked like you're

gonna get four blogs per month you're

going to get a new landing page for

month you're going to get a lead magnet

every quarter we're going to build an

email sequence follow-up and so it's

like wait a minute I'm looking around

and the price points are very

standardized you know five grand a month

7 500 a month 10 grand a month and I

look around and all the other HubSpot

agencies are doing the exact same thing

and the value comes down to the

deliverables did you get all of those

things on the list let me go and look

yeah we did it this month we succeeded

it's like succeeded in what

get delivering the writing the content

basically and Publishing it on their

website and so

it it's not yeah it wasn't the kind of

um

the Catalyst that I was expecting to

really go into that next level of growth

and I'm not saying all HubSpot agencies

are like that we were fairly

inexperienced in that game we were

coming from more traditional marketing

worlds and so that's that was the type

of business that we built it my role

only lasted in that about 18 months or

so because I could see that it wasn't

going to be the vehicle that I wanted it

to be to achieve my dreams and goals so

ended up parting ways with that and

going in a totally different direction

which was going into the online courses

world and so uh how to kind of

realization moment of I've been doing

this for almost 10 years I've seen what

this agency life looks like and the

business model looks like get more

clients hire more people get more

clients hire more people if you don't

want to hire more people then you're in

a sell more hours until you are totally

out of hours and then a big great

opportunity comes along and you're

excited about it and then you're like

I'll squeeze it and I'll make it happen

you land that client and you at the same

time are so excited and so uh how am I

going to do this then fulfill this and

make this to happen and successful and

not drop all my other clients and give

them a terrible experience now because I

got this one new awesome client so I

just I felt I was on a hamster wheel and

I didn't really see a great way out I

wasn't interested in hiring tons and

tons and tons of people having a big

office and doing that kind of thing yeah

so an opportunity came along from a

potential client who said hey we need

some SEO help we've got this local

business we've got all these locations

and so I did a couple of those meetings

and through those meetings they realized

I knew some stuff I had some experience

I had some ideas and so they actually

pulled me aside and said we want to let

you in on this little secret we're

working on this special idea here we

think we can create an industry-leading

online course in the medical field

specifically in the radiology and MRI

field and we need someone to lead this

we need someone to head it up and you've

got all these digital marketing skills

and Leadership skills and Consulting

skills we need someone who knows what to

do and can basically tell tell us what

to do

are you interested in being that person

and I looked at the landscape looked at

the scenario and also where I was in my

life and I wanted to change a decent

change to go from a service business to

a product right an online digital

product especially and I said absolutely

sign me up let's do it and so that

started my next uh nearly three year run

in three years yeah different direction

from absolute scratch pre-i just

basically that idea alone yeah but

nothing else in place so was an amazing

opportunity for me to come in at the

ground floor and to be supported so it

was really kind of a startup within a

existing traditional business yeah where

they said we've got all the content

which is very hard to create in this

field of radiology because you actually

need to have real human beings inside

the MRI machine who have that type of

disease or that type of injury that we

want to create a course about and that

can be very hard to get not everyone can

even has access to to that kind of

content to make but we do so we have

this huge Advantage but we just don't

know the internet side of things and the

online business side and the online

courses side and all of that technology

stuff so I saw it as a huge opportunity

and I dove Dove head first into the deep

end

that I love the level of specialization

with that and you know like we've spoken

off camera like many many times that my

you know I come from a family uh that

has quite a few medical professionals in

it and I know how much help they need

with tech

that's

doctors needing help with tech is not

going away anytime soon no for sure you

know and we want the doctors to be

focused on helping people and not

focused on becoming technologists unless

it has something to do with the medical

procedure so kudos to you for supporting

doctors uh for my own

um uh private interests uh so to speak

the other slice of that that I related

to was just flipping back and looking at

my own journey of

I think our Ryan dice talks about being

like a t-shaped marketer where you know

you go broad on all of these different

skill sets but you eventually go deep on

want but like be that specialist but

also being like an integrative

discipline to be able to pull together

all of these different Realms I had

constructed like this informal uh uh

internship MBA program for myself where

I was like oh yeah I want to get really

good at SEO I want to get really good at

copywriting want to get good at design

and just like what's the stack you know

to be like this full stack marketer uh

basically and then

I think I got out of the I want to learn

learn learn learn more and behind this

camera like there's I've got bookshelves

and bookshelves and bookshelves but then

I got into this phase of wanting to just

Implement and really just own the result

um and have an impact you know and I

think learning is great uh but then like

I think every I think this happens to

like most consultants and just people

who are performance turbulence like at

the end of the day uh what's the impact

if you look back at it what good did you

do in the world and so like I really

appreciate you know just the journey

that you've been on and the Relentless

Focus that you've also had on being able

to create results and also what I've

seen and heard is doing it in a way

that's in alignment with your values you

know which for everybody that's

listening in is really important you

know it's like

our folks tend to really not want to get

the golden handcuffs situation you know

it's like you're getting paid a lot but

you know and it's it's it's so much

money that you don't want to leave you

know but it's not quite your heart's not

fully in it and maybe growth has started

to plateau and so I would love to hear

more about what happened after uh that

18-month Sprint where you were helping

to grow this product because I know

there's much more to this story

yeah so

after that point

I realized that my career had really

been around

building and doing for everyone else

right that's the life of a consultant

right you're brought in to fix someone

else's business and to build things for

them and what I realized is you know we

all have different ways of charging for

our work and charging for our service

you can charge a flat fee you can charge

Performance Based thing you could take

Equity like there's just on and on and

on different ways of doing it you could

charge hourly right and probably not the

best way to go about it but a lot of us

start there and then we increase it and

we find different ways to become more

profitable

but at the end of the day you're usually

still just receiving a very small

portion of the value that you're

creating and

for me there was always just this itch

this desire

to become more of a fully I don't know

self-expressed entrepreneur where I'm

actually building a product I'm building

the company that I own and not just

building it for someone else there was

just always that dream always that goal

that that itch of am I ever going to get

to the point where I am doing my own

thing right

um because a lot of times let's say you

have 10 clients well that also feels

like you have 10 bosses right and you're

building and people's pen relatives

um and so you can do work especially in

the digital marketing world let's say

you write a sales letter that sales

letter uh maybe previously they had a a

one percent conversion rate let's say

you just knock it out of the park and

you have a five percent conversion rate

you know you five axed what they were

able to do and then if you bring a lot

of traffic to it that could generate

tens of millions of dollars right or

more who knows and so it's going to be

hard to be able to charge millions of

dollars to write a sales letter some

people are able to get there maybe by

the end of their careers but very few

and far between whereas you build a

business you build a company and the

value that you're able to create seems

to have almost no bounds and no limits

so

after that journey of about 10 years of

running an agency and Consulting and

then going in-house

I decided that I wanted to specialize

even further continue in this direction

of online courses and online learning

and build my own my own company so

that's really the new chapter that I'm

in today which started a little over two

years ago

I moved to Mexico I had our first child

and I started a brand new company thank

you and a productized service company in

the online courses coaching and

Community Niche and so that's what I'm

doing today and I I had to make the very

scary decision to cut off 99 of all

opportunities and all options and

everything I'm known for in my network

and online and say from now on I do one

thing I build world-class online

learning communities and and so really

it became

this uh this dichotomy in my mind I saw

this this fork in the road of

online courses from their ex from their

conception until a few years ago

have been basically just video based on

an LMS you log in you watch the series

of videos a playlist if you will and

that's it and the content might be

really good the information might be

really great you might be able to

complete it and to implement it and to

get the success but the sad part is

these courses have been around for so

long there have been lots of studies on

how this works and what type of results

and success come out of these sort of

courses and products

and the results are that it's very very

low the success rate the completion rate

is very very low we're talking typically

single digits one percent two percent

three percent and that was very sad to

me that was very you know like

disheartening that an expert pours their

heart and soul into a product because

they want to share what they've learned

they want to help the world they want to

allow other people maybe in other

countries who could never have access to

them or be able to afford working with

them the opportunity to be able to

achieve that same level of success or

transformation and the reality is you

know 90 plus percent of them never will

even though they had that desire and

that goal when they signed up for those

programs because they're they're

fundamentally designed in a way that is

very difficult to integrate and to

consume and to assimilate in our modern

world that is so noisy and so busy and

so distracting and that's where I really

recognize this paradigm shift that was

happening in the online course world

which was

the foundation was moving away from the

LMS in the stack of videos and it was

moving into the community as the as the

home base and as the foundation so you

go from being totally isolated thinking

I might be the only person in the whole

world that's signed up for this thing

and who's watching these videos there's

no real way to get help there's no way

to see what everybody else is doing I I

maybe can email the instructor maybe

they're going to get back to me but

there's no promise to now I'm over here

and I'm hanging out with people every

day who were all on the same Journey

we're all on the same Mission we want

that goal and that outcome that we

signed up for we're helping each other

we're asking questions and the

instructor is showing up to support us

on that journey and when I just looked

at those two differences it just became

so obvious to me that one way is the is

the future and the other way is the past

and I think we're seeing that with the

commoditization of content and of

courses and video and training because

it's heavily information based or almost

exclusively information and we can go to

YouTube and access an infinite amount of

information and I there's a quote I

think it's uh if information were to

solve all of our problems well we would

already be rich and have six packs and

be in perfect health because we've got

Google and YouTube so there's something

else missing there besides just the

information

I have many thoughts uh in response to

that

it's

you and I grew up in the information age

and

it feels as though we're leaving the

information age and going into the

intelligence age uh not just artificial

intelligence but also human intelligence

and information by itself uh is not

intelligent uh intelligence

implies that there is a sequence of

actions to achieve a particular outcome

usually on some sort of timeline and

information doesn't usually provide that

because information can't talk to us it

can't provide context we can't provide

it context that it doesn't provide us

context on our unique situation we're

usually wanting some kind of more

customized roadmap for us to be able to

get to where it is that we want to go

and the other thing that this maps to is

Jay Abraham's four steps to Greatness uh

are you familiar by any chance no Okay

so

says step one uh you need to get clear

on what greatness is for you

specifically

step two you need to get a robot for

greatness you got to know the steps to

be able to get to wherever grade is in

whatever form that looks like for you in

whichever area of life it is whether

it's health wealth or love

step 3 you need to actually start the

journey you need to have the courage to

be able to go out of the comfort zone to

get into the Gross cell

step four

you need to stay the course

none of it matters if you don't actually

cross the finish line and this is where

I think communities really come in

communities can actually help provide a

bit of a roadmap because we have all

these different examples for how it is

that we want to get to where it is that

we want to go it can also Inspire us to

start the journey oh we don't have to go

It Alone you know and then stay in the

course hey you know communities are

ultimately groups of friends and what do

friends do friends help to celebrate

when times are going good that

encourages you to keep moving forward

and move forward even faster and then

when times are down like friends help

you to get back up

they help you to stay the course where

the times are good or bad and

communities are new friendships often in

the making with a bunch of people that

have a shared goal right that's how you

look at it and that's been my life

experience as well so I'm really I think

it's really cool that you're helping to

create those kinds of places

yeah absolutely thank you for sharing

that with me that I have not heard that

before and that is so clear uh to me in

my mind of how communities tick each of

those boxes and how old school courses

almost don't tick hardly any of them

maybe they give you the clarity of this

is how I did it this is what you need to

do these are the steps but in terms of

starting uh that can be very very

difficult it's easy to sit there and

watch the videos you can feel like hey

I'm making progress I'm learning

learning is great I'm smarter now but

has anything changed in the world

no you haven't put anything into into

practice yet you haven't started

implementing and we can feel like we

understand advanced concepts when we

listen to an expert teach it to us and

we nod our heads and go yeah that makes

sense I understand that okay great but

now when it's your turn to actually go

do it by yourself like take that first

step write that first sales copy or set

up that website or whatever it might be

that's when all the the questions come

in that's when all the the confusion or

all the doubt or am I doing this right

or it's not exactly what it looked like

when they showed me how they did it so I

don't know if I'm you know should

continue on this path and and so staying

the course I think is one of the biggest

benefits to the community because what

I'm realizing is

um a lot of these programs that we sign

up for the we're looking for

Transformations we're not actually just

looking for the information right we're

not looking just for what's the right

diet and what's the right exercise no

what you're actually looking for is 10

pounds less and being able to see

visible ABS that's what we want and so

you might be able to learn the

information required in a day but it

might take you the the next 364 days of

actually practicing and implementing

that information to actually get the

result and so if you quit after a month

then you may have

been as a student who completed the

course like if we go into the analytics

and we say yep they watched every video

and they filled out the form that's a

successful student but they didn't stay

the course long enough to get the

results and the Transformations and then

the bigger the transformation that we

want the longer it's going to take and

that's where I think Community becomes

that X Factor are you actually going to

be able to sustain and stay engaged and

stay motivated and get through those

hard points and defeat the resistance

because we are all going to face that

resistance and so the ways that I'm

seeing programs supporting their

students through a combination of live

calls you know weekly events monthly

events DMS check-ins support groups the

community at large those types of things

are able to

hit us in different places at different

times when we need them most and can

really be the difference of the person

disengaging for the last time and or

coming back they maybe aren't

consciously like I'm giving up and I'm

never coming back but we all know there

is the last time that you logged into

that website and then oh yeah that was

six months ago I forgot about that

program it just kind of evaporates so

that could be the difference of that

type of person versus the person who who

gets pulled back in and says you know

what I committed to this thing and I'm

going to see it through and these people

are going to help me do that I

now I want to play Devil's Advocate

because yes I have I I I can hear I want

to like my PhD friends like uh listening

in and they're like no you know that's

true if it's that scenario but what

about you know so okay I have to address

this right

because they would have been listening

into this and they would have heard

earlier on in this conversation were

both you and I took online courses uh at

least mine didn't have a huge Community

attached to it and I was actually a

little less involved in the community

and I was able to create a very powerful

outcome and I'm imagining that it might

be the same for you as well and I think

we both fall into this category of

autodidacts you know self-directed

Learners you know where it's like hey

for the right kind of subject material

that we're super interested in people

just like go hard on it we won't even

attend the class just give us the

textbook and we'll just click and go

through but then I've also found that in

other areas where maybe I'm not as

strong

that's we're coaching and the community

really comes in handy for me to be able

to make the progress as opposed to me

wallowing in the textbook knocking my

head against the proverbial wall

wondering why it is that I can't make

progress and so I think there might be

space for

segmenting down by the type of learner

that we know that we are and what our

learning needs are depending on whatever

the topic it is that we are trying to

improve at to then decide do we need

more of a community for us to be able to

make progress in this area versus do we

need more of like a structured

curriculum for us to be able to fill

potential capability gaps that we have

to be able to make progress and maybe we

need a perfect mix of both

um

it's a great point and I've thought

about that

that as well because you're right I have

used online courses to absolutely change

my life

several several of them got me my start

in freelancing and starting a business

and learning these different

um you know SEO skills and things like

that I think courses that would be most

successful

that are Auto you just kind of old

school courses that I'm calling them

just the videos are going to be much

more tactical courses so for example

video editing maybe you know video

editing in Premiere Pro this is how you

open it up this is how you set up your

Edits edits here's how you do your Cuts

these are the shortcuts that you should

use these are some best practices Maybe

here's a template or here's some type of

pack that you can install that's going

to help you do it faster and better but

it's pretty straightforward it's pretty

black and white and I think a checklist

style type of course those I believe

would would still work in that format

especially if you have the right

motivation like you are a video editor

or you're trying to be a video editor

and it's immediately practice practical

and there's not a whole lot of gray area

in that however let's say

you have a similar course on how to

start a video editing business and grow

it to one hundred thousand dollars a

month in Revenue

it's going to be more strategic it's

going to tell you things that you cannot

immediately do right position yourself

this way go and get these type of

clients build these types of portfolio

pieces or hire a team to do these things

well you're listening you're absorbing

but then as soon as you go to start

doing those things it's going to be very

challenging because of how many Shades

of Gray and how many options there are

to actually going and implementing that

those are the types of programs that are

going to have a much longer timeline on

them and that they're going to be so

much more valuable and the

transformation is so much bigger and I

think Community is going to be pivotal

to the success of those type of programs

I would say that they would be almost

impossible to achieve or for a very very

small percentage of people if you were

just watching an old school course yeah

I would absolutely agree with that and

I've actually seen that quite a bit with

my own clients because many people come

to me when they're trying to go from

tactical to a more strategic course

basically and some of those like that

comes up like strategy is it's very

helpfully taught with the help of a

coach or a consultant and or Community

as well and it also made me think of a

third scenario that affects this which

is behavioral psychology

you know it's when the more

the more of an identity shift or belief

shift that needs to occur for someone to

be able to have the transformation that

they are wanting to have in their life

is the harder it's going to be for them

to do it with just curriculum like yeah

typically there's a human element that

is necessary for self-actualization

Transcendence cruel contribution

whatever the case may be uh for us to be

able to unlock that next level because

there's a lot of unknown unknowns not

just in the strategy but also just even

with our own belief system that's

blocking us from being able to execute

on something or to be able to have

success with it and we don't know how we

might be self-sabotaging in invisible

ways we're underperforming in invisible

ways that has been the most fascinating

thing for me at my own Learning Journey

as well where it's like oh why didn't I

thought this was the problem but it

turns out that this is the problem

[Laughter]

I'm so glad you brought this up I am so

glad you brought this up because this is

the missing piece I don't think you use

this word you used identity which is

exactly it it's also described a lot of

times as mindset right mindset is the

buzzword and so I work with a lot of

high-end courses a high ticket uh

coaching and course programs hosted

inside of a community and

there's a lot of very interesting

psychology around High ticket programs

because you could find almost the same

thing the same information taught in an

old school course for 99 but my client

who's running a copywriting program for

example teaching you how to go from zero

to one maybe you're a nine to five

employee you don't work in marketing or

copy they will teach you the skill of

copywriting then they will teach you the

business side of how to go and find

clients to sell that to so now you are

your own boss you're the own master of

your destiny where do you want to take

it do you want it to be a nights and

weekend side hustle kind of thing great

do you want to start you know be a

full-time freelancer great you want to

grow into an agency and hire people the

sky is the limit but it's a six thousand

dollar program so it's an investment and

they don't talk about this but one of

the first things they do is they will

immediately dive into your mindset

because especially if you are not yet an

entrepreneur you're not yet out in the

wilderness on your own used to hunting

and you know doing that kind of thing to

survive like all of us know as as

entrepreneurs you're in the nine to five

world where the paycheck just shows up

magically every two weeks right it's

just Auto deposit whether you worked a

whole lot those last two weeks or not

and so there's so many things that

you're just not yet accustomed to in

your own mindset in your own identity of

what it looks like to for instance set

your pricing and go tell a client this

is how much it costs this is how much

it's worth this is the value well how do

you you know how do you know you've

never done it before or you don't have

the experience or you can't point to

hundreds of clients so those types of

things especially just around money I

mean we could talk money psychology

forever but those are the types of

things that get people hung up and you

can't just have a video that says okay

charge 100 per blog post and then after

you've done 10 of them charge 200 per

blog post like that's just it's not how

it works and we can't I don't think just

absorb that as humans and run with it

because it's going to start to confront

our identity and and all of these things

inside side of us about our self-worth

and our value and our uniqueness and are

not good enough and on and on and on so

those are actually the hidden things

within these programs that can be the

roadblocks to achieving the

transformation and the outcome but it's

the unlock as well and so I'm just

seeing more and more with the clients

that I'm dealing with that they sell the

transformation they sell the outcome the

copywriting and then they sneak in the

medicine that you actually need which is

the identity and the mindset yeah

sneaking vitamins with the ice cream

yeah that's that's that's that's the way

to do it sometimes the only way to do it

I am curious

what has been the most surprising thing

to you in helping people build

communities

around their courses

good question the most surprising thing

or what's one thing that you wish people

spoke about but they don't for whatever

reason

I think it's just something around

value and pricing so we all have the

same time in the day right we all

um you know you can take someone with 20

years of experience and they pour it all

into a book and they sell it for ten

dollars yeah

um

versus someone can sit down and say

okay

I'm gonna build this program and I'm

going to help people learn it and

execute it and implement it and that's

going to be nine thousand dollars per

year

some people might be shocked and say

that is so much money that is insane no

one would ever pay that that's

ridiculous how could I justify that I

would be so ashamed and embarrassed like

I'm ripping people off right like all

these types of things and then you could

also look at it and say well in the in

the real world of successful High ticket

training education programs that might

even be on the low side right there's an

hen fifteen twenty five thousand dollar

programs fifty thousand dollar programs

and and these evens it almost seems that

as you go higher and higher it's less

about the information because they start

to become masterminds where it's like

there is no course there is no content

yeah you're just hanging with all of us

because if you get one thing out of it

that fifty thousand dollar investment is

going to turn into five hundred thousand

dollars guaranteed easy

uh minimum and so you're not even going

to Blink an eye and you're going to

renew next year for another 50 000

Mastermind year and and so I just love

that aspect of value has no limit and

finding people who who believe in that

and and who sign up for that and then

being able to serve them and do it in a

way that is scalable and has leverage so

that you as the expert are able to have

immense impact and influence in people's

lives but it can still be in an intimate

way right this might be a group of 10

people or 25 people that's not that many

people we see online on social media oh

this person has 60 000 followers or 600

000 followers and there's so much

difference in a free follower on social

media versus someone who is in your

private Community who's paying have

access to you and learn from you and get

feedback and advice from you and

that's just something that I've really

been blown away by in the last few years

as I've worked with seven and eight and

nine figure entrepreneurs who have

adopted this model and who have just

become very very successful at learning

how to scale and leverage that while

increasing the price increasing the

value their students are happier and

more successful and then they're happier

and more successful as the business

owner that's cool I would love to

continue peppering you with questions

but I also know that you got the hard

stop coming up and I want to be

respectful of your time and all of the

value that you just knowledgeables that

you've been dropping and so only have

like two more quick rapid fire questions

these may be the hardest questions I've

asked you oh so far uh and the first one

prepare yourself is

if you were stuck on a desert island

with one dessert for one week

which one would you pick and why

well this is a bit of a recent discovery

in my life actually uh and it's in the

Haagen-Dazs world

so that's never been a huge thing for me

but the discovery has been Cherry Garcia

that's very specific it is very specific

and I don't know if you've had Cherry

Garcia but if not it is objectively it

is the number one best flavor best ice

cream in the entire world it's got the

chamberries it's got the vanilla the

chocolate chunks in there

so you will go through that much faster

than you think when you're not paying

attention and just eating Cherry Gardens

that that's great uh that was the

softball question which leads up to the

harder of the two questions let's go

if you had to choose between

chocolate chip cookies or oatmeal raisin

where do you stand

you were not joking

oh man I'm trying to come up with some

cheeky third option of like a half and

half cooking

I I don't think there's an answer there

that's just a lose-lose situation either

either one or maybe it's a win-win

situation yeah

all right so you heard it here first

everyone Jordan is inclusive he's cookie

inclusive and that's right I don't

discriminate

equal opportunity cookies

um I love it

um so before we go where can people find

out more about you

yeah you can check out my website

growthcommunity.co and you can follow me

online on Twitter on LinkedIn at Jordan

Godby nice thank you so much thank you

Mark pleasure

all right clip it there sweet hey thanks

for checking out the show if you liked

it go ahead and hit the like button and

also subscribe so you don't miss another

one it also tells us which ones that you

like the most so that we can then do

more interviews like that if you want to

go from idea to implementation though

especially if you're wanting to

productize your expertise so that you

can scale your impact on your clients

and of course grow your business then

join our email list there we're going to

talk about how modern Consultants can

productize their expertise so that they

can have a greater impact on the world

around them and live life on their terms

if that's up your alley I hope to see

you on the other side talk soon