How do you grow your email list?

Summary

This video script delves into effective email opt-in strategies, emphasizing the importance of organic list growth over buying lists. It discusses the value of a high-quality, engaged subscriber base versus a large, unengaged one, and the significance of a well-crafted welcome email series. The speakers share their insights on leveraging personal networks, other newsletters, and referral systems to grow an email list organically, highlighting the long-term benefits of nurturing genuine relationships with subscribers.

Takeaways

• 📧 The importance of having an email opt-in strategy and growing your email list organically is emphasized, rather than buying or scraping lists.
• 🙅‍♂️ Buying pre-built email lists is discouraged due to their ineffectiveness and potential legal issues.
• 🌱 The value of an organically grown list is highlighted, as it represents subscribers who are genuinely interested in the content.
• 🎉 The joy of growing a subscriber base organically from the first few to thousands is mentioned, underscoring the personal connection to the list.
• 💰 The potential high value of a well-engaged email list is discussed, with examples of newsletters being sold for millions.
• 🛑 The script stresses that the number of subscribers is less important than the quality, with a focus on high engagement rates.
• 🤝 The power of networking and leveraging other channels, such as social media or other newsletters, to grow the email list is suggested.
• 🎁 Offering incentives like discounts or lead magnets can be effective for list growth, but the focus should be on delivering ongoing value.
• 📈 The high open and click rates of welcome emails are noted, making them a critical component for setting the right impression.
• 💡 The idea of nurturing new subscribers with a well-crafted welcome series is presented as a way to increase retention and engagement.
• 📝 The script touches on the importance of testing and iterating on opt-in strategies to find what works best for list growth and engagement.

Q & A

What is the main topic discussed in the video?

The main topic discussed in the video is email opt-in strategy and list growth.

Why is buying a pre-built email list considered a bad practice?

Buying a pre-built email list is considered a bad practice because it often leads to low engagement and high churn rates. It also lacks the personal connection and trust that comes with organically grown lists.

What is the importance of having a high-quality email list?

A high-quality email list is important because it leads to better engagement rates, higher open rates, and more effective communication with the audience. It also impacts deliverability and the overall success of email marketing campaigns.

What is the significance of the welcome email in email marketing?

The welcome email is significant because it has a much higher open rate compared to regular emails. It is an opportunity to make a strong first impression and set the tone for future communications.

How can leveraging other newsletters help in growing an email list?

Leveraging other newsletters can help in growing an email list by tapping into an audience that is already engaged with similar content. This can lead to higher engagement and conversion rates as these subscribers are more likely to be interested in the content.

What is the role of referral traffic in email list growth?

Referral traffic plays a crucial role in email list growth as it brings in subscribers who are recommended by existing subscribers. This can lead to higher engagement and quality of subscribers, as they are likely to be genuinely interested in the content.

Why is it important to deliver on the promise made during the opt-in process?

It is important to deliver on the promise made during the opt-in process to ensure that subscribers feel valued and see the value in their subscription. This helps in reducing churn rates and maintaining a high-quality email list.

What are some common tactics used to grow an email list organically?

Some common tactics used to grow an email list organically include offering discounts or incentives for sign-ups, creating lead magnets like white papers, leveraging social media and other channels, and asking for referrals from existing subscribers.

How can the quality of subscribers be improved through the opt-in process?

The quality of subscribers can be improved by focusing on providing value and making the opt-in process appealing beyond just short-term incentives. This includes showcasing the benefits of subscribing and nurturing new subscribers through a well-crafted welcome series.

What is the impact of list growth on the monetization of a newsletter business?

List growth has a significant impact on the monetization of a newsletter business. A larger, high-quality list can lead to higher advertising revenues, potential premium content sales, and increased overall value of the business.

Outlines

00:00

📧 Email Marketing: The Importance of Opt-In Strategy

The video discusses the crucial aspect of email marketing, focusing on the opt-in strategy and list growth. It emphasizes the importance of organic list growth over buying lists, which can be ineffective and unethical. The speakers share insights on personalization, testing, and the value of an organically grown list, highlighting the joy of seeing the list grow from the first subscribers. They also mention the vanity of high subscriber numbers compared to the quality of engagement, advocating for a strategy that prioritizes valuable subscribers over quantity.

05:00

💰 The Value of Newsletters and Organic Growth

This paragraph delves into the profitability of well-grown newsletter businesses, mentioning recent high-value acquisitions in the industry. It underscores the potential of newsletters as a content monetization platform, especially in a world where traditional content monetization is challenging. The discussion highlights the high CPM (cost per thousand impressions) of newsletters compared to other media, and the importance of maintaining a high-quality subscriber list for better engagement and monetization potential.

10:03

🚀 Strategies for Growing Your Email List

The speakers explore various strategies for growing an email list, starting with leveraging personal networks and existing relationships for initial subscribers. They advise against buying or scraping data, instead promoting organic growth and the building of a list that reflects genuine interest from subscribers. The paragraph also touches on the different tactics suitable for various types of newsletters, such as e-commerce, hobby, or B2B, and the importance of offering value to new subscribers.

15:04

🎁 The Power of Incentives in Email List Growth

In this segment, the discussion centers on the use of incentives, such as discounts or lead magnets, to encourage subscriptions. The speakers express a preference for growing a list based on the merits of the content rather than short-term deals, but acknowledge the practicality of offering incentives like discounts in the competitive e-commerce space. They stress the importance of following up with a strong welcome series to nurture new subscribers and highlight the high engagement rates of welcome emails.

20:05

🔄 Leveraging Other Channels and Networks for List Growth

The paragraph discusses the importance of integrating email marketing with other business channels to support list growth. It suggests using social media, advertising, and cross-promotions with other newsletters as effective methods. The speakers share personal experiences and the benefits of shout-outs from other newsletters, emphasizing the high engagement and quality of subscribers gained through these organic and collaborative approaches.

25:06

🤝 The Benefits of Cross-Pollination and Referrals

This section highlights the benefits of cross-promotion between newsletter owners and the power of referral systems. The speakers share their positive experiences with getting shout-outs from other businesses and the high-quality traffic that results from such collaborations. They also discuss the effectiveness of referral programs, the importance of structuring rewards to prevent abuse, and the high engagement potential of subscribers acquired through referrals.

30:07

🎉 Appreciation for Behind-the-Scenes Support

In the final paragraph, the speakers express their gratitude for the support provided during the filming of the video. They give a shout-out to Cat, who is behind the camera, for making the experience enjoyable and comfortable. They mention the technical setup, the warm atmosphere created with heaters, and the promise of lentil soup, all contributing to a positive filming experience.

Keywords

💡Email Opt-in Strategy

An email opt-in strategy refers to the methods used to encourage individuals to voluntarily subscribe to receive emails from a business or individual. In the video, this strategy is central to the discussion, as the speakers emphasize the importance of growing an email list organically and ethically, rather than purchasing or scraping email addresses.

💡Inbox Club

The term 'Inbox Club' is not explicitly defined in the script, but it can be inferred as a metaphorical club of subscribers who have chosen to receive emails, indicating a successful opt-in strategy. The video's theme revolves around the importance of getting and keeping subscribers in this 'club' through effective and ethical list growth tactics.

💡List Growth

List growth is the process of increasing the number of subscribers on an email list. The video discusses various tactics for achieving this, such as leveraging personal networks, offering value through content, and avoiding the purchase of email lists. The script emphasizes that list growth should be pursued organically to ensure a high-quality, engaged subscriber base.

💡Personalization

Personalization in email marketing refers to tailoring email content to the preferences, behaviors, or demographic information of individual subscribers. While not the main focus of the script, personalization is mentioned as a covered topic in previous discussions, suggesting that it plays a role in effective email marketing strategies.

💡Testing

Testing in the context of email marketing involves experimenting with different elements of an email campaign, such as subject lines, content, and send times, to determine what works best for engaging subscribers. The script mentions testing as an important aspect of refining email strategies, although it jokes about 'Bing them to death,' indicating that it's a topic they've covered extensively.

💡Buying Lists

Buying lists refers to the practice of purchasing pre-existing email lists for marketing purposes. The speakers in the video strongly advise against this practice, stating that it's not only ethically questionable but also ineffective for building a genuinely engaged subscriber base.

💡Organically Grown List

An organically grown list is an email subscriber list that has been built naturally over time through ethical practices such as providing valuable content and offering incentives that appeal to the target audience. The video emphasizes the superiority of an organically grown list for long-term email marketing success.

💡ROI (Return on Investment)

ROI in the context of email marketing refers to the measurable return, typically in monetary terms, that a business receives from its email marketing efforts compared to the costs of running those campaigns. The script mentions the potential for email marketing to start with minimal investment and achieve a positive ROI through organic list growth and high engagement.

💡Vanity Metric

A vanity metric is a measure of success that may sound impressive but doesn't necessarily reflect true business value or quality. In the video, the number of subscribers is referred to as a vanity metric, with the speakers arguing that it's more important to focus on the quality of subscribers rather than just the quantity.

💡Lead Magnet

A lead magnet is a piece of valuable content or an offer that is used to entice individuals to provide their contact information, such as an email address. In the script, lead magnets are mentioned as a common tactic for B2B brands to encourage email list sign-ups, often in the form of educational content like white papers.

💡CPM (Cost Per Thousand)

CPM is an advertising metric that represents the cost an advertiser pays for one thousand impressions on their advertisement. The script notes that the CPM for newsletters is significantly higher compared to other mediums like YouTube, indicating the high value placed on reaching an engaged email audience.

💡Referral System

A referral system is a marketing strategy that encourages existing customers or subscribers to refer new potential customers to a business, often in exchange for incentives or rewards. The video discusses the power of word-of-mouth marketing through referrals and the importance of structuring these systems to ensure high-quality referrals.

Highlights

Email opt-in strategy is crucial for effective email marketing and list growth.

Avoid buying email lists; focus on organic growth for better engagement and ownership of your list.

Paying for advertising to grow your list is different from and preferable over buying a pre-built list.

Organically grown lists are more valuable because they reflect the sender's efforts and the subscribers' genuine interest.

High-quality subscribers are more important than the number of subscribers for better open rates and engagement.

Growing a newsletter business can be incredibly profitable, with high-value lists potentially worth millions.

The monetization potential of newsletters is empowering content creators and journalists.

CPM (cost per thousand) for newsletters is significantly higher than other media, indicating high monetization potential.

Consistency in email format over the years provides a stable medium for content delivery compared to other platforms.

The first email was sent in 1979, marking the beginning of a long-standing communication method.

Personal stories of first email addresses and the evolution of personal email use.

Strategies for growing an email list include leveraging personal networks and other businesses' support.

Offering value beyond discounts, such as educational content or exclusive materials, can improve subscriber quality.

Welcome emails have exceptionally high open rates, making them a critical point for engaging new subscribers.

Referral programs can be an effective way to grow a list with high-quality subscribers.

The importance of testing and iterating referral systems to ensure quality over quantity of referrals.

Cross-promotion between newsletters can be a powerful method for mutual growth and support.

Transcripts

in this video we're going to be talking

about a really important topic your

email opt-in strategy where the inbox

Club let's get into

it okay fine or is that the clap oh I

just did it i'm The Clapper no I am now

I'm there's a new Clapper in we're all

clapping okay right okay so we've

covered subject lines we've covered

personalization we've covered testing

yeah hopefully some people stuck with us

after we B them to death on testing not

probably not uh my mom's probably even

switched off at this point yeah but in

case there are some people watching

we're going to talk about list growth a

little bit right we're going to talk

about opting in getting people to opt in

what that means how to do it effectively

and how to grow your list right because

that's a big challenge for a lot of

people and if I was to Hazard a guess

the most Googled problem for people that

are doing their own email marketing is

probably like how do I grow my list or

like ways to your list um and One

symptom is that of that is that we see

people buying lists right yeah big no no

big no no good um we didn't rehearse

that so I'm glad that he said that but

yeah big no no so if you're buying a

list like instantly you're starting off

the wrong foot right um you know some

things should be bought some things

shouldn't some things should happen

naturally right yeah um so and for me

like an organically grown list is

something that's better when it's it's

your own something that you own because

that's that's a huge plus point of email

marketing so yeah and when we say buy a

list we don't mean it's fine to pay for

advertising to get subscrib it's fine to

invest money into the growth of your

list there's a big difference between

that and buying a pre-built list yeah

buying data yeah so exactly so when I

when we talk about that we're talking

about going to a data broker uh buying

data and using that data for your email

marketing uh it just doesn't work um

it's bit of a gray area anyway when it

comes to what you can do legally But

ultimately what you're trying to achieve

here is is an Roi on your on your email

marketing and the beauty of email

marketing is that you can start it with

zero pounds in your bank right um and if

you're starting from a standpoint of

paying a chunk of money for a list

that's [ __ ]

anyway you know you're on off on a bad

foot and you've grown your own

newsletter you know what it's like to

grow from from when you get your first

50 subscribers and the joy that you get

from that and doing it organically

there's a journey there and you also get

to know your list as you're growing it

so to do it organically is the way to go

for me yeah definitely and that Joy is

not exponential by any means I would say

it was probably more exciting to to get

my first 50 subscribers for my my my

hobby newsletter which is about fantasy

footall than it it was to get you know

the the last 5,000 we've got it's it's

that that sounds braggy but it's only to

say that it's it's completely relative

so people often say to us what's the

point in sending emails you know I've

only got 100 subscribers I would much

rather have a 100 really good high value

subscribers than 10,000 people who never

open my emails yeah precisely so whilst

we're going to talk about list growth

and opt-in strategies we should stress

that to an extent the number of

subscribers you've got is a bit of a

vanity metric what we're looking for

is a lot of really high quality

subscribers because ultimately a really

healthy list that has a 50% open rate if

you have 10,000 of them that's 5,000

people engaging with your content every

single time you send an email that's

better than having a 50,000 strong email

list with only an 8% open rate where

you're going to actually have less than

that 5,000 so yeah and that's also going

to have implications on deliverability

and and so forth so you're absolutely

right to say that the best way to get a

high quality list is to grow it

organically yeah and to be intentional

with every subscriber that you bring on

board absolutely and I think something

that has captured my imagination from

the early days of you my marketing is

people that grow newsletter businesses

right uh you've done it yourself but

also there's there's people that have

done it uh obviously on a much larger

scale than you have as well and how dare

you you're sorry mate I mean it is good

but there are bigger um and what what I

love about that and what captures my

imagination is how much those lists are

worth if you were to sell that

newsletter business how much that list

is worth you know in Mone returns

because if you have a list of people

that that they hit a certain

demographic um the person sending the

emails really knows the list what they

the list engages with what they love to

hear about um and the and so the

engagement is really high um as well

that list can be worth like s figures

right Millions eight figures perhaps

yeah there's been some recent

acquisitions newsletter Acquisitions for

kind of 50 60 million yeah so it's yeah

it can be incredibly it can be

incredibly profitable business and also

quite a pleasant quite a pleasant

business to run yeah in that it's a

relatively simple proposition the

product is the content itself and you

know it's in a world in which content is

harder and harder to monetize

newsletters are kind of breaking forth

as this new Revolution of journalists

content creators being able to monetize

their writing again which is is

empowering individuals to to create

content and actually get compensated for

it which is is not something that the

internet is used to you know we're used

to content creators being underpaid and

under appreciated and it's fantastic

that newsletters are are creating an

outlook for for people to create great

content and actually get paid yeah so

those examples that you just that you

brought up there where you were talking

about newsletters selling for 8 figures

right what how many subscribers would

would a list like that have off the top

of your head a lot so the hustle for

example which was one of the first big

newsletter Acquisitions I think that was

the I don't think the official number

has actually been disclosed by the

founder a guy called s par but it's in

the region of 20 to $30 million that

that was acquired acquired for and I

believe at the time it had about one and

a half million subscribers so it's a

huge list and it had a it had a

monetized element called Trends which

was a a a like a yearly payment plan

that people could opt into and they

would get exclusive content kind of

loosely associated with the hustle which

was a business news newsletter and

Trends would send you more deep Dives on

specific

companies and that had about 20,000

subscribers I believe at the time it was

sold so it was a revenue gener in

machine it sold ads for for for quite a

large amount one thing we have to

remember with newsletters is that the uh

CPM on them the the cost you an

Advertiser pays to reach a thousand

subscribers is significantly higher than

it is on on nearly any other medium so

you think about a YouTube video for

example that the CPM might be somewhere

between two

and5 uh for a newsletter it's going to

be more around 15 to 20 and and that can

go up exponentially depending on the the

kind of Niche you're talking to if you

have a newsletter that's all about

investing you're going to get a much

higher CPM than the newsletter about

fantasy football yeah for sure and I

think this all then SS back to the list

that you have and making sure that it's

a high quality list right uh and that

all starts with the opin process and

rewing your list so um and when you talk

about um the newsletter selling there

for for kind of uh eight figures and it

was one and a half million subscribers

right which is a lot for a newsletter

but when you compare that to followers

and you think about what some of the

content creators have in terms of

followers you know actually that that

doesn't seem as big you know in terms of

the other ways of creating content and

getting out in the world uh and my my

what I like about newsletters is that a

lot of social media platforms are moving

towards favoring video content um hence

why we're here today filming video

content for socials uh it's labor

intensive right it's it's it's it can be

expensive yeah and uh with the beauty of

newsletters is that they're always just

newsletters right there are ways that

you can do them differently and the ways

that you can stand out but it it's a

medium that that is that is fairly

constant right it's fairly yeah con yeah

yeah absolutely there's very little that

has changed between email newsletters of

25 years ago and newsletters today when

we think about YouTube and the the

various algor algorithmic changes

they've moved the dislike button they

now do shorts the formatting has changed

know quite a lot about YouTube has

changed when we look at kind of old

incarnations of the platform it looked

very very different well actually if you

think about Gmail um it's more or less

stayed the same the way that people are

served email yes there's a little bit

more

sophistication that there are different

folders now that that that you can

automate so that certain uh emails are

put into certain folders as you receive

them but generally speaking the inbox

looks now as it as it did when it was

first invented newsletters of a as iium

I love that about them because it it

says to me okay in 20 years time it's

probably still not going to be a huge

amount of change don't fix it if it

ain't broke yeah absolutely uh first

email that was ever sent do you remember

what year that was you won't remember it

because you weren't alive no I did I'm

hoping that you do yeah I do actually

you've come prepared I have come

prepared yeah I mean we'd be Los if we

hadn't come to a podcast prepared uh

1979 okay

apparently so and my dad was 10 no my

dad was 12 my mom was 10 so you know uh

it's been around for a while yeah do you

remember your first memories of of

having your own first email address you

know what I

remember my sister my I've got two older

sisters the oldest one is seven years

older she was quite smart I was probably

10 or 11 it was Christmas time and her

Christmas present to me was an email

address okay which

retrospectively I realized was some

fantastic improvisation on her it was

totally free for her to do but as a 10

or 11 year old pretty unfamiliar with

the internet I'm 32 so yeah you know

we're talking kind of early 2000s here

10 or 11 year old I my mind was blown at

the idea of having my own inbox yeah and

the uh the handle that we decided upon

you still send an email to her now if

you want was I love christmascake at

yahoo.co.uk

working with inspiration in the room

probably a slice of Christmas cake in

front of me and uh the password was

Britney Spears okay um so feel free to

log in and take a look it's long

shutdown yes but uh but yeah so so I I

don't remember the first email that I

sent I imagine it was probably to my

sister saying something like hello yeah

but that's the story of how I I I first

got into did you AB test that first

email you sent to the sister obviously

of course like I said email say that

isn't testing is a

waste no I I didn't regretfully what

about you do you remember

yours do you know what I don't know if I

can uh I remember it was probably nor

freak at NL World yeah I mean I still

use that email it was one my dad set up

for me um I had no hand in the in the

creation of that he came to me one day

and said oh your email address is norf

freak ntl world.com oh okay

well yeah yeah exactly yeah uh so I was

like okay thanks Dad uh yeah my brother

got Lou Gunner it was all based on the

the football teams we support right um

yeah you're not just like really into

the city of nor no I mean that would

also be fine because nor is obviously

great but fine City yeah fine City uh

but no I'm an nor City supporters

unfortunately so um so yeah but I think

I must have had one before that when I

was younger and my feeling is that it

was probably on AOL yeah right because

we were you know in the DED up and you

know there are those that remember dial

up and those that don't and we're

drawing a Line in the Sand here because

they going to be those that don't

showing your age dial up and uh but um

anyway back to Growing your list and

opin right so we we went a bit on a

tangent there on your P our personal

history of our email addresses I love it

yeah um I love Christmas cake as well

yeah we know that now yeah and

potentially Britney Spears as

well so in terms of like uh so we've

talked about we've said what not to do

right so don't buy data right and I

think I would including that in in that

scraping data in organically right so

what are things that some people that

people can do to grow their list uh and

I think that let's start from people

that have either no or very little list

and then we can talk about tactics for

people that have a fairly sizable list

already and what they can do to grow

that because there are different tactics

yeah you know this the starting point to

discuss here is

what sort of list are you trying to

build because the tactics you might use

to grow a list for your e-commerce store

might be different to the tactics you'll

employ for your hobby newsletter or your

B2B newsletter if you're an agency for

example so I think it's worth bearing

that in mind however in every instance I

would say when you're starting out look

at the levers that you already have to

pull by which I mean almost everybody

watching this all three of them will

have

uh avenues that they can exploit to to

to to start building their list and

it'll be this could be something like

that LinkedIn connections for

example even their family and friends it

could be that they already have a

pre-existing relationship with uh you

know another for example for lazy FPL my

fantasy football newsletter um we asked

other newsletters in the football space

to give us a little introduction to

their audience yeah so look at your

network and don't just look at it don't

just scan it look at each uh LinkedIn

connection you have you know look at the

people that you regularly send emails to

other business owners or whoever it may

be and ask yourself will they do me a

favor here you know and that that could

be as simple as just subscribing to your

newsletter which I think is a fairly low

friction favor to ask anyone um but they

might also be happy to introduce you to

to their Network as well and just

pulling in those

favors and saying look I'm building this

it'd be great to have you on I think

you'll find it

useful I I think is a great place to

start I would I would say that first and

foremost it's really important to

remember it sounds obvious that the only

reason why anyone will ever subscribe to

your newsletter is if they feel like

it's going to be worth it for them they

need to feel like there's something in

it for them yes they might do you a

favor but you don't want to depend on

the the kindness of others you you want

them to be happy that they subscribed

yeah yeah if you're an e-commerce store

perhaps that means offering some sort of

discount uh in exchange for an email

address um if you're a business um if

you're a B2B uh Agency for example

perhaps you're you're focusing more on

educational pieces and providing value

in that way but making sure that people

don't go on to regret subscribing I

think is also really really important so

at that point of email entry show them

exactly why it's going to be worth it

for them absolutely and actually for

e-commerce and for BTC or or DTC uh

Brands uh running stores is incredibly

common for them to say well sign up to

our newsletter and you'll get 10% off

right yeah um and for B2B brands that

takes on a slightly different form where

they create some kind of lead magnet

where it's a white paper so what what

it's a very common thing to do right and

we we employ that tactic for our clients

I think in an Ideal World I would love

to have uh a scenario in which people

sign up to your email marketing on the

merits of your email marketing right so

so good so you know it's you're not

doing a deal with the devil here where

you're signing up uh you you get your

10% but oh by the way we're going to

we're going to send you some emails you

know that if for me that feels like

you're making a deal there and for I

prefer and will always push people away

from doing the discount thing if we can

because it's it's like why should I sign

up to the newsletter what can I expect

from the newsletter um why is it going

to be a good thing to for me to be

subscribed to Beyond just the shortterm

deal you're going to make with me

because that's what it is right yeah and

and when we have that transactional

element to list growth subscriber churn

tends to be a lot higher engagement

tends to be a lot lower yeah so you're

absolutely right at the same time

unfortunately whether we like it or not

top reason why someone would subscribe

to an e-commerce newsletter is the

promise of a discount so there is also

this tendency I think for some store

owners to

overestimate how much value they can

actually offer their prospective

subscribers one of the things that

really irks me about opin forms is when

a business owner or whoever is in charge

of the email marketing will say

something like sign up for company

updates and as much as we love the idea

that all of our customers are really

interested in what's going on behind the

scenes at our company and our new hires

and you know Molly and accounting doing

the tough M the the fact is that most of

our customers aren't going to care about

that what they really want to know is

what's in it for me yeah and and

unfortunately whether we like it or not

a discount can be a necessary evil in

terms of encouraging that subscriber I

think for me what's really important is

that if we if we're forced to make that

transactional

deal as soon as they're into our list we

welcome them with a proper nurturing

series that means even if they

originally came for the discount we're

quickly telling them what else they're

going to get yeah and ensuring that they

stick around for those other reasons as

well so our welcome series needs to be

awesome yeah needs to be on point that's

a good point I think yeah so I guess

then in this utopian world that I've

tried to paint a picture of for opin

that you would you would not view your

your opt-in form as something it's like

well you know give us your data and

we'll we'll do a bit of a favor we give

you discount but it's it's it's like

okay we'll sign up you'll get discount

and you'll get all this extra stuff that

we're going to be sending to you sending

you right absolutely and and the the I

think one thing that you can do to

protect your churn rate immediately is

to deliver on what you promised straight

away right so if you've promised uh like

groundbreaking um great content seem to

be delivering that straight away right

if it's just an automated welcome kind

of template email that that you've not

paid much attention to yeah you know

it's not it's not going to do you any

favors so you know deliver on that

promise straight away um because people

will remember people have got long

memories when it comes to uh receiving

[ __ ] emails um you got some tasty

welcome email numbers of your sleeve as

well haven't you in terms of how many

people engage in them I do yeah so uh in

terms of like I was saving this for a

bit later on so you put me on the spot a

little bit but no it's fine so uh

welcome emails get 10 times as many

opens uh four times as many clicks um

and you know roughly on average people

you know open rates for welcome emails

are about 80 to I think 86% or something

wild which is wild which is huge and you

know when you consider um you know open

rates will tend to be around if you're

doing a good job 40 to 50 right uh or 50

to 60 perhaps if you're doing a good job

yeah so

um you know when you consider

86% wow okay that's an opportunity right

that's you know people are sitting up

and listening or at least they're

opening in it so you've got to get that

right you know if you're using a

template welcome email you've not spent

much attention on it or I hate to say

tested it you know you're missing an

opportunity there yeah 100% so I would

say no matter where you are in your list

growth process whether it's right at the

start or you've already got a big list

and you want to kind of consolidate it

and build on it you're welcome series

need to be excellent because it's one

thing to get a subscriber it's much

easier for you to retain that subscriber

once you've got them you know the the

cost of of acquiring a new subscriber is

infinitely higher than the cost of of of

keeping one and so your welcome series

will be as you said the W the the open

rates are so high that if you're not

careful it might be the only email from

you that they ever open so making a

statement and making an impression as

soon as possible yeah is massively

important absolutely agree more um you

talked a little about leveraging your

network right to to grow your list in

those early stages I think I would add

to that is leveraging your other

channels right because one thing that

we've found a bit difficult in the past

is not having the support from other

channels from in the business to to

support your list grve right because if

you aren't in a position where you're um

you're shouting out um opin on your

social media for example or you're not

spending maybe if you're an e-commerce

store you're not spending on ads to get

the trff through the site so that people

opt in and then enter your flows right

so for us it's we also like to see

people leveraging the other channels uh

to support email marketing because it's

a great way but that's not necessarily

something that that a fledgling business

can can use straight away right because

certainly for for us we've started a new

business in the past uh you know just

over a year now it's not as if we've got

this Limitless Bank of money we can use

on ads right to grow our list

unfortunately not so if people want to

grow their list they need to um think

about the network that they have um

available to them if they don't have the

resources of a a highly established

business and if they do then to think

about the channels that they can

leverage to to grow their list right if

you had to pick out one uh way for you

that is your favorite way to grow your

list it doesn't necessarily have to be

like the one that gets the best results

but maybe it's the one that gets the

best results in terms of quality of

subscriber right is there one for you

that's out yeah I think other newsletter

shout outs are really really powerful

you know one of the problems with

running a

newsletter that other platforms don't

suffer from is that it's a very

privileged position to be invited into

somebody's inbox and I think it's

important to really respect the fact

that unlike watching a video on YouTube

or or Tik Tok there is more intimacy

involved with an email and that you are

being invited into their space yeah

and the great thing about using other

newsletters in order to grow your own is

that the people who are uh seeing that

advertisement or that plug or whatever

it is are already the sort of people

that are happy to subscribe to

newsletters and not everybody is as much

as I'd love to live in a Utopia where

everyone loves receiving newsletters it

is an argument that needs to be one

amongst some people some people just

consider every email they receive a Spam

more or less and don't like hanging out

in their inbox yeah so by being able to

Target specifically an audience who are

already opening newsletters and engaging

with them and see the value in them

you're already knocking down a lot of

the barriers that might stop someone

from subscribing yeah and that makes it

so much easier and what we find datawise

is that subscribers that have come from

other newsletters tend to be a lot lot

more engaged a lot more likely to

convert to premium product if you offer

one um so I would say other newsletter

shout outs are fantastic and what's

brilliant is that there is this

perception that your competitors aren't

going to shout you out for whatever

reason you know oh but what research has

showed is that people recipients are

more than happy to subscribe to several

newsletters all about the same topic you

know it's not it's not hard to just

delete an email if you're if you don't

want to see it or just read it later

it's not like you're necessarily being

bombarded you read your emails on your

own terms and it means that despite the

narrative that oh okay if I run a

football newsletter I can't possibly go

to another football newsletter and ask

them to give me a plug what you'll find

is that newsletter owners are usually

all too happy to support smaller

newsletters we certainly are and um it's

been a massive help you know helping

each other cross-pollination of

subscribers has been really really good

absolutely I think um for me it's it's

not even something that would

necessarily have to cost you money or

much money if you if you do it in the

right way there's there's ways if you

you know if you're in a networking sense

if you're building a network and you're

you're meeting people you can quite

often say we we're a new business you

want to give us a shout out you know

it's not beyond the Realms a possibility

that they could do that free of charge

or they might say to

you yeah sure we'll do it when you get

to a certain amount of subscribers would

you do it back for us you know working

out some be creative the ways are doing

it and you know if you if you're

listening to this this uh this video or

watching this podcast or

whatever you own a business or it might

be that you're that you're if you don't

own a business that you're in a a

marketing role and that you've you've

put a certain amount of work and CFT

into either starting your business

getting it to where it is or to where

you are in your career and I can promise

you the creativity and the persistence

that you need to grow your list is less

work than what you've done to get to

that position that you're in right yeah

especially if you've own a business um

that's so true so it's it's just

avoiding that that temptation to look

for shortcut yeah um I would can't

stress enough that that should be

avoided because it's um it doesn't serve

you well and if I was to add my favorite

one in not that you asked thanks a lot

uh but no if I that's right if I was to

add my my favorite one in I think it's

the referral driven traffic right yeah

um and it's not something that always um

gets you high numbers right but the

quality of the the subscribers that you

get from it so what I'm talking about

here is going to your email list and

saying look if you like this how about

you tell some mates about it um however

you might want to do that uh whether you

weave in some kind of offer for with

that as well um because I know it's

something that you did yeah for your

newsletter yeah uh I subscribe to your

newsletter I also pay for the premium

version thanks mate no mates rates there

are no mates rates I have I pay the full

price um but you did an offer where you

I'm sure it was um if you get certain

amount of people signed up you get some

bonus content right or you get a month

three a three I can't remember what was

yeah we have various incentives yeah I

think I got you three people to to not

only sign up to your newsletter but then

also pay for the premium version right

so the quality of that traffic that you

got from me and if you replicated that

across your how many is it now you've

got 45 50,000 subscribers uh not

everyone's going to do that but if a

small portion did the quality of that

traffic it's then uh it's the butterfly

effect right it's you're getting really

high engaged traffic that are willing to

then pay for premium content and by

Merit of that probably will have more

likely to then make referrals themselves

as well right yeah just a quick note on

referrals actually because there is a

bit of an art to it not to blow my I

certainly haven't mastered the art by

any means again like anything in email

marketing it requires testing and

iteration uh it is fantastic if you get

it right and you're absolutely right to

say that you know there's nothing as

powerful as word of Word of Mouth right

in in marketing and the quality of

subscriber tends to be quite High

however depending on how you structure

your rewards and by the way there

there's various software you can use in

order to create an actual referral

system so as opposed to just saying oh

if you send a screenshot of of you know

your mate subscribing then will that's

quite a hard and high friction way to do

it there are automated ways where you

can generate personalized links some

software called spark Loop that does

that but some esps also have it built in

um how you structure your rewards um

your incen for their referrals is

incredibly important because what we

found in the past for example is that if

we give something really good for one

referral people use their work email and

so then you're not getting a a quality

subscriber you're getting the same

subscriber who isn't going to open your

emails twice yeah yeah so it's very

difficult to verify that and ensure

against it unless you kind of go in

manually and have a look so we we tend

to structure our Awards such that you

need to kind of get beyond that two or

three threshold so that it's actually

your your network that you're referring

and not just your various kind of side

hustle emails that you've got you've got

in your Gmail B absolutely yeah and I

fully accept that I'm your mate so I'm

I'm automatically much more likely to

refer people to your newsletter than I

would be normally or the opposite well

maybe uh but it helps obviously the

people that I know that will play

Fantasy Football obviously interested in

your content so I'm really happy to do

that you know and I know that the

content's good so you know there is I

know I get there's an extra element

there and it probably doesn't

extrapolate very well and you you know

me as your mate versus your whole list

but you know I think there is something

to be said there for that referral

system and uh and I really like it s you

that five later yeah

exactly uh I would send everyone who

watch this podcast I'll send my referral

link and I'll get loads of money from to

change this

newsletter um okay I think we covered op

I will just quick break here I want to

give a shout out to the support that

we're getting today yeah uh from cat uh

we have no idea how to film [ __ ] right I

think you've got like an iPhone 2 or

something I do as you said earlier Steve

Jobs was still alive yeah when your

iPhone came out yeah so um so we we uh

we just want to shout out to cat because

the support that we have she's behind

the camera she's laughing at our jokes I

don't know if it's because we're paid

clients but um she's the the the you're

not seeing it here but there's three

cameras there's light it's on brand for

us uh she's made us herbal teas because

we've got tickly throats um you know

there's even lentil soup promised for

for lunch which I'm really looking

forward to can't wait uh and it's just

been a lovely experience so far yeah

it's been awesome I would say that as

someone who is Not By Any Means

comfortable in front of the camera one

thing that I was really apprehensive

about was kind of the vibe of the D that

sounds kind of silly to say but I was

worried and when we arrived I was

immediately put at ease i' I'd say like

you could obviously you can you can

probably recreate something like this if

you put enough spend behind it but what

you can't recreate is the the feeling

that you get with someone and and how

comfortable they make you feel ab and

like the Rapport that we have like we've

had a good laugh and stuff yeah and yeah

I don't want to make you feel awkward

cat but yeah it's uh yeah no it's it's

been good but yeah it's um it's made us

feel I think a lot more relaxed than

than we have any right to be here in

front of free cameras absolutely and

what you'll be seeing here is a finished

product uh as well after cat has done

all the editing so hopefully that's the

we felt on the day as well uh and I'm

sure it will be but uh if you if you

don't uh know cat then reach out to her

uh you can find her on LinkedIn her

name's cat K A and her surname is bat uh

BH a uh BH a that's right yeah so catbat

look her on LinkedIn uh check her out

because her you know it's her stuff is

awesome and I think the pr today I think

it's one outside two when we set off uh

yes we're in a garage uh it was a bit

cold when we got here but you should see

the the spread that the cats put on here

for us in terms of heaters I mean I'm in

a t-shirt yeah not a goose pimple inside

no we might as well be in New Yorker at

this point yeah it's it's amazing it's

really cozy so yeah big thanks to cat uh

cheers cat and there we

go uh so yeah if you saw that that was

cat