Joe Rogan: Why Do Humans Value Social Status?

Summary

The transcript delves into the human obsession with status, highlighting its extreme manifestations such as suicide and suicide bombings driven by social rewards and perceived heroism. It further explores the psychology behind individuals' susceptibility to cults, often stemming from a lack of identity and community, and how these groups offer a sense of certainty and belonging. The discussion also touches on the allure of certain belief systems, like Scientology, among successful individuals, emphasizing the innate human need for connection and status in a world where traditional tribal connections are increasingly elusive.

Takeaways

• 😔 Human beings often value status over their own lives, to the extent that a sudden drop in status or feelings of isolation can lead to self-harm or suicide.
• 💥 Suicide bombers are an extreme example of the lengths people will go to for social recognition and rewards, even if it means sacrificing their lives.
• 🤔 The belief systems that drive such actions can be deeply ingrained, with individuals genuinely believing in their righteousness, similar to the conviction seen in extremist groups.
• 👨‍👧 The manipulation of vulnerable individuals, including children, into acts of violence is a disturbing aspect of some belief systems, where the promise of heroism can be a powerful motivator.
• 🧠 The human mind is susceptible to adopting belief structures that provide a sense of identity and belonging, especially when individuals struggle to fit into mainstream society.
• 🏘️ Cults often appeal to those who have difficulty finding a place in conventional social structures, offering certainty and a clear set of rules to follow.
• 👟 Quirky and specific rules or rituals, such as wearing purple Nikes in certain cults, can serve to strengthen group identity and commitment.
• 📚 The memoir of a former cult member highlights the desire to follow the group's rules, not out of coercion but out of a genuine belief in their importance.
• 🎭 Actors, due to their profession of taking on different identities, may be particularly drawn to belief systems like Scientology, which can offer a sense of identity and community.
• 🤝 Religion, in general, provides a sense of connection and status, which are fundamental human needs, and can be seen as beneficial despite the potential for extreme beliefs.
• 🌐 In the modern world, where traditional communities are less common, there is an increased risk of identity stress and a longing for the sense of belonging and importance provided by smaller, close-knit groups.

Q & A

Why do human beings value status so much according to the speaker?

The speaker suggests that humans value status highly to the extent that it can lead to self-harm or suicide in cases of a sudden drop in status or feelings of isolation.

What is the speaker's view on suicide bombers?

The speaker sees suicide bombers as another manifestation of the extreme value placed on status, where the promise of social rewards or heroism drives individuals to such actions.

How does the speaker describe the psychological impact of cults on their members?

The speaker implies that cults offer a sense of identity and belonging to individuals who struggle to fit into the status games of ordinary life, providing them with a tribe and certainty.

What does the speaker find 'insane' about the beliefs of certain groups?

The speaker finds it 'insane' that people can sincerely believe in extreme ideologies to the point of sacrificing their children for what they perceive as heroic actions.

How does the speaker relate the idea of status to religious beliefs?

The speaker suggests that religion provides a sense of connection and status, which are essential for human psychological health, and this is why people are drawn to it.

What is the speaker's opinion on the use of children in acts of violence by certain groups?

The speaker finds the idea of using children in such acts to be evil and highlights the manipulative nature of those who can convince others to participate.

How does the speaker describe the psychological vulnerability that can lead to falling into cults?

The speaker describes individuals as vulnerable to cults when they struggle to find a place in society, lacking a sense of identity and belonging.

What does the speaker find fascinating about cults?

The speaker finds it fascinating how cults use bizarre language and specific terms that all members agree upon, creating a unique status game within the group.

Why does the speaker believe that religion can be beneficial despite its strictness?

The speaker believes that religion can be beneficial because it provides a sense of community and importance, fulfilling basic human needs for connection and status.

What term does the speaker use to describe individuals who are hostile towards Scientology?

The speaker mentions 'suppressive persons' as the term used by Scientologists to describe individuals who are hostile towards their beliefs.

How does the speaker connect the idea of identity and status to modern societal issues?

The speaker connects the struggle for identity and status to modern societal issues by discussing the difficulty of feeling connected and valued in large populations and the rise of identity stress or anxiety.

Outlines

00:00

🚷 The Pursuit of Status and its Consequences

The speaker discusses the human tendency to value status highly, to the extent that it can lead to self-harm or suicide when one experiences a significant loss of status or feels isolated. They mention suicide bombers as an extreme example of how social rewards can influence behavior, highlighting the belief systems that drive individuals to such actions. The speaker also touches on the idea that people can become deeply invested in belief structures that may seem irrational to outsiders but are deeply held within their communities, including the influence of cults and the psychological vulnerability that can lead individuals to seek certainty and belonging in such groups.

05:01

🎭 The Role of Belief Systems in Hollywood and Beyond

This paragraph delves into the allure of belief systems, particularly Scientology, and how they can attract successful individuals in Hollywood. The speaker reflects on the idea that actors, due to their profession of embodying different characters, might be more susceptible to such belief systems. They also share personal anecdotes about growing up in a strict Catholic household and how religion can provide a sense of community and importance. The discussion extends to the broader context of modern society, where the struggle to maintain a sense of connection and status can lead to identity stress and the appeal of strict belief systems that offer certainty and a clear social hierarchy.

Keywords

💡Status

Status refers to the relative social standing or rank of an individual within a group. In the video, it is highlighted as a driving force behind human behavior, with people often valuing it to the extent that they are willing to sacrifice their lives for a perceived increase in status. The script mentions suicide bombers as an extreme example of this, where individuals may commit acts of violence in pursuit of social recognition and rewards.

💡Psychological Resources

Psychological resources are the mental capacities and emotional resilience that individuals possess to cope with life's challenges. The script discusses how a lack of these resources can lead to feelings of isolation and depression, and in severe cases, self-harm or suicide, emphasizing the importance of psychological well-being in maintaining a healthy life.

💡Suicide Bombers

Suicide bombers are individuals who carry out acts of violence with the intention of causing death, including their own, for political or ideological reasons. The script uses this term to illustrate the extreme lengths to which some people will go in pursuit of status and recognition within their social or religious groups.

💡Social Rewards

Social rewards are the positive reinforcements or recognitions given by a community or society for certain behaviors or achievements. The video script discusses how the promise of social rewards can be a powerful motivator, influencing individuals to engage in dangerous or self-destructive actions.

💡Cults

Cults are groups with a shared belief system that often operates outside of mainstream society and can exhibit extreme or unconventional behaviors. The script explores the vulnerability of individuals to cults, especially those struggling to find a sense of identity and belonging in their everyday lives, and how cults offer a sense of certainty and community.

💡Identity

Identity refers to the characteristics and qualities that make up an individual's sense of self. The video discusses how individuals who struggle to establish a stable identity in their daily lives may be more susceptible to the influence of cults, which provide a clear and defined sense of self within a group.

💡Belief Structures

Belief structures are the systems of ideas and convictions that individuals hold about the world and themselves. The script mentions that people can fall into belief structures that may not make logical sense but become part of their identity and community, highlighting the power of shared beliefs in shaping human behavior.

💡Connection

Connection refers to the sense of belonging and relatedness that individuals feel towards others. The video emphasizes the importance of connection for psychological health, noting that modern society's large populations make it more challenging to feel securely connected, which can lead to feelings of isolation and stress.

💡Religion

Religion is a system of faith and worship that often provides a framework for understanding the world and one's place in it. The script reflects on the role of religion in providing individuals with a sense of community and status, despite the speaker's own past skepticism towards religious institutions.

💡Identity Anxiety

Identity anxiety is the feeling of unease or dissatisfaction with one's sense of self, often stemming from a lack of connection or status in society. The video script discusses this concept as a significant source of stress in the modern world, where individuals may struggle to establish a strong identity within large social groups.

💡Scientology

Scientology is a controversial religion founded by L. Ron Hubbard, which the script mentions as an example of a belief system that has attracted many successful individuals, including actors in Hollywood. The speaker reflects on the allure of Scientology's success stories and the potential for such belief systems to provide a sense of identity and community.

Highlights

Human beings value status over their lives, with status being a significant factor in self-harm and suicide.

Suicide bombers are seen as a manifestation of the extreme value placed on social rewards and status.

The psychological impact of a sudden drop in status or feelings of isolation can lead to self-harm.

Cults and extremist groups offer a sense of belonging and certainty to those struggling with identity and status in society.

People can become deeply invested in belief systems that may seem irrational or 'crazy' to outsiders.

The idea of talking children into acts of violence for perceived social rewards is both wild and evil.

Individuals in extremist groups often believe in their actions with sincerity, not out of calculation.

Vulnerability to cults is often linked to a lack of identity and a struggle to fit into societal status games.

Cults provide absolute certainty and a strict status game that some find appealing.

The use of bizarre language and agreed-upon terms within cults signifies a strong group identity.

Scientology's appeal in Hollywood and its strict rules for members were discussed.

Actors' susceptibility to Scientology may be due to their transient identities and the need for a stable belief system.

Successful individuals within cults, like Tom Cruise, demonstrate the allure of such belief systems.

Religion and cults fulfill a human need for connection and status, which are essential for psychological health.

The struggle to feel connected and valued in modern society contributes to identity stress and anxiety.

Anecdotes from a memoir of a cult member highlight the desire for strict rules and the perceived benefits of belonging.

The need for connection and status is a fundamental human requirement, often met through religious or cult communities.

Transcripts

human beings value status over their

lives yeah I mean that's how much we

value status we we're the only animal

that kills oursel which is just a weird

thing in itself that an animal would

voluntarily end its own life and very

often the reason that people will kill

themselves is because it's a sudden drop

in status or they feel completely

isolated and alone so so so they're

lacking in those essential kind of

Psychological Resources to such an

extent that they you know end their own

lives and that's how much we value these

things and suicide bombers are another

manifestation of that like like if

you're going to consider me a hero and

if Muhammad is going to consider me a

hero strap me up brother you know that

that's how much that that's how crazy we

become about these these social rewards

God that is such an insane belief it's

so insane and when the the most evil

thing is when you hear about them

talking kids into doing it

yeah you know a young child you know

you're getting a I mean what is the

youngest suicide bomber they've ever

used I don't know just the idea that you

can buy into it so much that you're

willing to let your children go do

that yeah but I it's wild

it's it's evil if you think it's this

kind of

calculating um uh kind of mathematical

algorithm of Advantage but but but they

sincerely believe it they really believe

it's true right I mean you know I've

been as a when I was North I was a

journalist I've been meeting kind of

crazy people including Nazis um as part

of my journalistic career and that's one

of the things that always strikes me is

that they they really believe it this

crazy stuff so so it's not evil in the

sense that um they doing anything

calculating by talking their children

into being suicide bombers they think

they're doing something heroic they

think they're doing something amazing as

did the Nazis as as did the Communists

as yeah as do the KKK people they can

fall into belief structures and they

they don't necessarily have to make

sense but if they find enough supportive

people around them that also believe

that then it becomes part of their tribe

identity yeah and it can get it could be

really stupid be really stupid we're

[ __ ] way more vulnerable than we like

to believe that's one of the things that

I was saying like when I watched those

cult documentaries part of me is like

thank God I didn't run into those people

thank God yeah they would have got me

and and when they look at the psychology

of people that are vulnerable to falling

into Cults it's very often people that

have struggle to fit into the status

games of ordinary life so they got the

family hasn't worked the job hasn't

worked hobbi haven't worked so they've

got no identity they've got no tribe so

they're really vulnerable to these Cults

which because what Cults offer is

absolute certainty yeah if you cook your

scrambled eggs this way if you uh only

put two inches of water in your bath

you're going to you know the um the UFOs

will come down and they're going to take

you to the level above that's what they

were offering T the level wear the Nikes

though remember you have to wear the

purple Nikes but yeah that's right and

there's this crazy Memoir of one with

one of one of the guys who was in this

group who he cut he didn't he didn't cut

his own balls off he left before the

ball cutting but he was but he was

jealous like like he wanted to have his

balls cut and there was there was only

one person that could have it done at

the beginning and they flipped a coin

and he was really annoyed that he lost

the coin flip oh my God but what was

interesting about his Memoir was he said

that people talk about brainwashing

Cults and people talk people talk about

how we were forced to follow these rules

but we wanted to follow the rules like

not following the rules would be like

being a NASA astronaut and just not

caring about how the Space Shell works

you know so so so so so they're not they

don't consider themselves brainwashed

they consider themselves well they're

just in a status game like like any

other status game it's just a very very

strict one right well that's why you

know one of the fascinating things about

some Cults is that they use very bizarre

language and that they all agree to it

like specific terms that they say like

doesn't Scientologist they'll call

people they have like an abbreviation

for someone who's like a hostile

person what is it that they do because I

remember someone was some was explaining

to me someone who left the church was

explaining to me how like if someone

would be hostile you have like a very

specific way you describe them and that

they all do it in the group and it's

like suppressive persons yeah

suppressive persons yes you're a

suppressive person potential trouble

source

dude I ordered dianic in like

1994 I had just moved to LA and I

thought it was a self-help book I was

like all right yeah [ __ ] look at your

brain's going to explode you're going to

get your [ __ ] together look at all these

people that are succeeding on diic you

know it's 26 or whatever it was so I

ordered this book and they never stopped

sending me things I mean they [ __ ]

never stopped sending me was there ever

a point when you thought hang on a

minute this is quite interest though all

right no no once I realized it was

Scientology I was like oh Dianetics is

Scientology yeah I was like okay but

then part of me was like damn a lot of

these Scientologist are doing really

well in Hollywood maybe that's a good

culture join maybe if they just let me

be me because it seems like that was

part of it there was a big Allure over

how many successful people were

following that religion I mean some of

the most successful actors Tom Cruz is

one of the most successful actors of all

time and he's literally the poster boy

for that yeah that's right I I it's

somebody was saying to me the other day

that they thought that actors were

particularly susceptible to Scientology

because they've got this weird they

don't really have an identity actors

they were always sort of slipping into

everybody different people's identities

I thought that was interesting

especially if

you're you probably lose who the [ __ ]

you are who am I am I Rocky am I the

mission impossible guy yeah well when

they're walking around everybody treats

them that way like I'm sure they treat

Stallone like he's Rocky and yeah you

got to give respect to Tom Cruz though

because Tom Cruz is like 60 years old

and he still does his own stunts

including jumping a motorcycle off a

cliff yeah that's how much he believes

in this stuff yeah but but that's but

that's why these these groups are kind

of functional as well it's like I kind

of have a weird kind of sympathy like I

grew up in a very strict Catholic

household with very strict Catholic

parents and I was very I hated it I was

very rebellious as a teenager and I

guess in my 20s and 30s I was very very

atheist and you know hated religion um

but but then I kind of did a lot of This

research and and when once you accept

that what humans need to be healthy

psychologically and physically is

connection and status you see that that

that's actually what religion provides

people that that's what religion

provides my parents is that they

connected into community and they feel

important they feel they're good

Catholics because my dad conducts the

choir and you know this that and the

other and so that that that's invaluable

that's what humans need to survive and

in our you know in the in in the current

world in the

huge uh populations in which we live

it's very hard to feel securely

connected I mean as you said moment AG

the tribes in which we evolve were very

small like 30 to 50 people so it was

quite easy to feel securely connected it

was quite easy in that environment to

feel important like valued by other

people I mean

probably it was not rare in the tribe to

feel in invaluable like you're needed

because everybody was needed there

wasn't many people around to find the

tubers and catch the rabbits or whatever

um but in this day and age in these huge

groups in which we belong to it's it's

much harder to feel relative status

because you're competing with millions

of people especially online so and I

think that's a source of a huge amount

of sort mid misery in the modern world a

stress sort of an I call it identity

anxiety identity stress we we we we we

are we feel really unsatisfied with the

amount of connection and status

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