Is Diversity Killing Comics? (Response To Comicstorian)

Summary

The speaker discusses the controversy around diversity in comics, criticizing the notion that comic book fans are against diversity due to racism. Instead, he argues that fans are upset because their beloved characters and storylines are being replaced or altered without their consent, leading to feelings of betrayal. He highlights past instances where character changes caused backlash and stresses that giving fans choices is crucial. The success of DC's Rebirth initiative, which restored old characters, is cited as evidence of fans' desire for continuity. The speaker concludes that diversity isn't inherently bad but should be offered alongside existing characters to respect fans' investments.

Takeaways

• 📚 The current debate on diversity in comics is often mischaracterized in the media as comic book fans being inherently racist.
• 🤔 Fans are upset not because of the introduction of minority characters, but because their beloved characters and histories are being replaced or erased.
• 📉 The New 52 initiative by DC saw initial sales success but eventually declined because fans felt disconnected from the new versions of characters.
• 🔄 DC's Rebirth initiative succeeded because it restored the histories of beloved characters, which resonated with fans.
• 😡 The backlash against changes like the new Wally West or Riri Williams is due to fans' long-term investment in the original characters, not their race.
• 💡 Comic fans, like all people, are resistant to sudden changes, especially when it affects something they've been passionate about for years.
• 📈 Diversity in comics is not inherently bad, but it should not be forced at the expense of beloved characters and storylines.
• 👥 Fans want choices in the stories they read, rather than being forced to accept new characters replacing old ones.
• 🕵️ Comic book fans' resistance to change is not new; it has happened throughout the history of comics with every major character transition.
• 🎭 The key issue is not diversity itself but how it's implemented, with respect to the existing fan base and their attachments.

Q & A

What is the main argument against the claim that comic book fans are inherently racist when it comes to diversity in comics?

The main argument is that comic book fans are not against diversity due to race, but rather because they are invested in the characters they have grown to love and are upset when those characters are changed or replaced without their history intact.

What was the reaction of comic book fans to DC's New 52 initiative in 2011?

Fans were outraged and felt betrayed because the New 52 initiative reset most characters' histories, disregarding the time, money, and emotional investment fans had in the original stories and characters.

Why did sales of the New 52 initiative initially do well but then drop off?

Sales initially did well because of the hype and curiosity, but they dropped off as fans realized that the new versions of the characters did not resonate with them, and the stories did not feel authentic to the characters they loved.

What was DC's response to the declining sales of the New 52 initiative?

DC introduced the 'Rebirth' initiative, which brought back the old characters and their histories, aiming to give fans the best of both worlds with the old and new elements combined.

How did the 'Rebirth' initiative impact sales compared to Marvel during that period?

The 'Rebirth' initiative was a massive success, outperforming Marvel in sales significantly, with DC taking almost all the top spots in comic book sales, leaving Marvel with only a few titles in the top 30.

What is the common misconception about comic book fans' resistance to diversity in characters?

The misconception is that fans are resistant to diversity because of the race or ethnicity of the new characters. In reality, fans are resistant to change when it comes to characters they have a deep connection with, regardless of the reason for the change.

Why did fans react negatively to the introduction of new characters like Riri Williams as Iron Man and Jane Foster as Thor?

Fans reacted negatively because they were attached to the original characters, Tony Stark and Odinson, and felt that the new characters lacked the depth and history that made them invest in the original characters.

What does the script suggest is the key to handling diversity in comic books without alienating long-time fans?

The script suggests that giving fans choices is key. Instead of forcing new characters onto fans, comic book companies should offer multiple titles featuring both new and old characters, allowing fans to choose what they want to read.

What historical example is given in the script to illustrate fan resistance to change in comic book characters?

The script mentions the introduction of Barry Allen as the Flash, replacing Jay Garrick, and the subsequent backlash from fans who preferred the original character.

How does the script differentiate between forced diversity and organic diversity in storytelling?

Forced diversity is when new characters are introduced without considering the fans' attachment to the original characters, while organic diversity is likely to be more accepted if it grows naturally from the story and respects the fans' emotional investment in the characters.

What is the script's stance on the role of comic creators in relation to diversity and character development?

The script suggests that comic creators should use their imagination to create new and interesting stories rather than simply replacing existing characters with diverse counterparts without considering the fans' connection to the original characters.

Outlines

00:00

📚 Comic Book Fans and Diversity Debate

The speaker addresses the misconception that comic book fans are against diversity due to racism. They argue that the real issue is the change in beloved characters, using the examples of Riri Williams and New 52 Wally West. The speaker criticizes the media for misrepresenting fans' outrage as racially motivated rather than a reaction to the loss of invested characters. They reference the DC's New 52 initiative and its aftermath to illustrate how forced changes, rather than diversity itself, lead to fan backlash. The point is made that fans are resistant to change because of their emotional investment in characters, not because of the race or ethnicity of the new characters introduced.

05:00

🔄 The Cycle of Change and Fan Reactions

This paragraph delves into the history of character changes in comics, such as the transition from Jay Garrick to Barry Allen as The Flash, and later to Wally West. The speaker emphasizes that fan reactions to these changes have always been passionate, regardless of the race or ethnicity of the characters involved. They discuss how DC Comics' attempts to innovate with 'Flash of Two Worlds' and the New 52 initiative were met with initial excitement but eventually led to declining sales due to fan dissatisfaction. The speaker also touches on the importance of giving fans choices, using the example of Iron Man and Riri Williams, and how forcing diversity without offering alternatives can alienate readers.

10:00

🌟 The Importance of Choice in Comic Book Diversity

The final paragraph reinforces the idea that diversity is not inherently negative, but becomes problematic when it eliminates choice for readers. The speaker argues against labeling comic book fans as racist for their resistance to change, drawing parallels to sports fans' loyalty to teams. They highlight that fans' attachment to characters and their narratives is the driving force behind their resistance to change, not the racial or ethnic background of new characters. The speaker concludes by advocating for a diversity of options in comic books, allowing fans to choose the stories and characters they connect with, and suggests that this approach is what has led to the success of DC Rebirth over Marvel's current offerings.

Keywords

💡Diversity

Diversity in this context refers to the inclusion of characters from various racial, ethnic, and gender backgrounds in comics. The video discusses how diversity is often misconstrued as the main reason for fan backlash, but the core issue is the replacement of beloved characters rather than their race or gender.

💡New 52

The New 52 was a 2011 initiative by DC Comics to reset its entire line of superhero comics, creating new storylines and character versions. Fans were upset not because of new characters' races, but because the histories of beloved characters were erased. This highlights fans' resistance to change in general.

💡Rebirth

Rebirth is another DC Comics initiative launched in 2016 to restore the classic versions of characters and their histories, responding to fans' dissatisfaction with the New 52. The success of Rebirth is cited as evidence that fans prefer continuity and legacy over sudden, forced changes.

💡Forced Diversity

Forced diversity refers to the perception that diversity is being imposed on audiences without organic storytelling. The video argues that fans are resistant to changes that feel mandated, such as replacing Tony Stark with Riri Williams, rather than the diversity of the characters themselves.

💡Character Investment

Character investment is the emotional and financial commitment fans have towards longstanding characters. The video emphasizes that fans' backlash often stems from this deep attachment, feeling betrayed when their favorite characters are replaced or significantly altered.

💡Sales Trends

Sales trends refer to the fluctuating success of comic book titles in response to new initiatives. The video discusses how the New 52 initially saw high sales which then plummeted, while Rebirth saw sustained success, indicating fans' preferences for familiar characters and continuity.

💡Continuity

Continuity in comics is the consistency of characters' histories and storylines over time. The video highlights fans' frustration when continuity is disrupted, as with the New 52's reset, contrasting with the appreciation for Rebirth's restoration of familiar narratives.

💡Legacy Characters

Legacy characters are characters who inherit the mantle of a superhero from an established predecessor, such as Wally West becoming The Flash. The video notes that fans often resist these changes not because of race or gender, but because of their attachment to the original characters.

💡Reader Choice

Reader choice emphasizes the importance of providing fans with options rather than forcing changes. The video argues that offering both original and new diverse characters can satisfy fans and prevent backlash, suggesting this approach would better integrate diversity into comics.

💡Fan Loyalty

Fan loyalty is the dedication of long-time readers to specific characters or series. The video uses this concept to explain why sudden changes are met with resistance, as loyal fans feel a sense of betrayal when their beloved characters are altered or replaced without their input.

Highlights

Comic book fans are outraged because their favorite characters are being replaced, not because of diversity.

Fans feel betrayed when long-standing characters with rich histories are suddenly changed or removed.

The New 52 initiative by DC caused fan backlash because it reset the history of beloved characters.

The success of DC's Rebirth initiative was due to restoring the original characters and their histories.

Comic book sales dropped when new characters replaced old ones without proper introduction or development.

Fans want to see new characters created alongside existing ones, not as replacements.

The issue is not with the introduction of minority characters, but with the removal of established characters.

Marvel's declining sales are attributed to their forced diversity approach, rather than giving fans a choice.

DC Rebirth's success shows that respecting fans' attachment to characters leads to better sales.

Comic book fans are compared to sports fans in their loyalty and resistance to sudden changes.

Introducing new characters like Riri Williams without building their backstory and connection to fans is problematic.

The transition from one Flash to another (e.g., Barry Allen to Wally West) has always faced fan resistance.

Diversity should be about giving fans options, not forcing them to accept new characters at the expense of old ones.

Fans value the development and growth of characters over time and feel cheated when this history is erased.

Effective storytelling in comics involves balancing the introduction of new characters while respecting the legacy of existing ones.

Transcripts

diversity in comics is an interesting

topic right now it's kind of a funny

situation and the reason why is because

I've been going through these news

articles looking at people who are I

guess looking at these these posts that

people are making you know talking about

oh you know comic book fans are lashing

out of diversity yet again and what I'm

seeing is this common theme that these

news articles are basically making the

case that well comic book fans are

against diversity because they're

inherently racist you know they're

against Riri Williams because she's a

minority and they don't want to see a

minority succeed they're against the New

52 Wally West because he's a minority

and they don't want to see minority

succeed that's stupid and that's

probably one of the most irresponsible

instances of Journalism if you can even

call it journalism but it's one of the

most irresponsible instances of

Journalism that I've ever I've ever

heard of or ever seen in any form or

fashion the reason why comic book fans

are so outraged right now is because the

characters they're invested in are going

away that's why they're mad what's

happening is people are saying well no

it's like they're taking the notion of a

character's race they're slapping it on

and saying No this is the why they're

angry it's not because the characters

changed it's because they changed into

minorities no no no no the way you want

to know how I know that you want to know

how I know that fans were so outraged

that their characters changed the new 52

DC's New 52 initiative in 2011 when DC

came along and they said everything

stops except for Batman and Green

Lantern their their history is kind of

stay intact but everything gets re reset

whether you were a Spider-Man fan I'm

sorry Superman fan whether you were a

Wonder Woman fan regardless of what kind

of a fan you were people were lashing

out they were angry why because they

were invested because they started

reading comics in 1990 and they'd read

you know good Superman stories they'd

read bad Superman stories theyd read

great Wonder Woman stories they read bad

Wonder Woman stories but they were there

through thick and thin they were a loyal

fan to DC and now they felt betrayed

they felt cheated because all that

history was gone all that money that

they had spent all that time they had

spent reading those characters was all

gone and they were angry they were they

were outraged about it comic story and

did a really really good video where he

talked about the notion of diversity and

one of the problems that he addressed

was this idea of forced diversity

basically saying yeah the heroes changed

and you have to read the new Heroes now

DC did that and the new 52 sales did

amazing for like the first two issues of

almost everything and then after that

they started dropping off the only

exception to that was like Justice

League you know some of the more Premier

titles or like Batman as it was written

by Scott Snider because it was done so

well but for like 90% of their roster

sales were falling Swift and fast and DC

tried to change it up they said well

we'll do virgin we'll bring back some of

these old characters for alas tah you

know we'll bring back we we'll do like

DCU where it's just stories that revolve

around you and there's no continuity

it's just it's wherever you want it to

be and it was confusing and it was

ridiculous and sales fell even further

so you know what DC did DC said stop the

presses rebirth we're literally going to

bring back all these old characters that

you loved all those histories for those

individual characters are going to be

intact and we're just going to go from

there we're just going to keep on going

on you know and you're basically going

to get the best of both worlds and you

know what happened d rebirth took the

World by storm it literally set the

world on fire in 2016 and crushed Marvel

in sales I mean obliterated Marvel there

was one point I think I don't remember

if it was like July or August or

something like that Marvel had three

titles in the top 30 Publications

released in a month three DC took

everything else just throwing it out

there he was insane how well it did and

the reason why is because people felt

like they hadn't been cheated anymore

people got the histories in those

legacies back when F fan sat down and

they said hey there's this new 52 Wally

West I don't like him it wasn't because

he was a minority it wasn't because he

was African-American it was because when

they started reading Wally West they got

into him because of Justice League the

cartoon show because of Justice League

Unlimited the cartoon show because that

was the Wally West that they love

because they were reading Wally West

when he first became the flash they've

been reading him ever since and they

just liked him comic book comic book

fans are as resistant to change as your

average human being is I knew a guy at

the old job that I worked at who ate his

blueberry muffins for his morning snack

every morning at 9:30 on the dot didn't

miss a beat it was 9:30 a.m. you could

walk in he's sitting at that table and

he's eating his blueberry muffins woe be

tied the poor soul who walked in there

and said hey man give me your blueberry

muffin sorry you can't eat those today

he would lose his like he would

freak all right that's just how people

are well I've been doing it this way for

20 years and it just works and I don't

really see a reason to change it's

always been that way Comics that's

nothing new this whole diversity

initiative it adds a new dynamic because

of the fact that these characters are

minorities but the fact that they are

minorities is not why fans are adverse

to them in 1940 Jay Garrick appeared for

the very first time he was the flash the

first Flash and he was the flash for

like eight years or something like that

and then his Comics was were tanking

because science fiction was becoming

more popular and so DC canceled his

title in 19 1956 they introduced a new

Flash named Barry Allen and you know

what Jay Garrick fans said Barry Allen

sucks Barry Allen doesn't need doesn't

need be the flash Barry Allen is

absolute trash I hate Barry Allen give

me Jay Garrick back now Barry Allen

sales did good for a little while but

then they started slumping off and so

what did DC do in 1961 they wrote flash

of Two Worlds and said here's Jay

Garrick now and then the sales the the

sales of The Flash comics started going

back up again because now Jay Garrick

fans got Jay in Justice Society of

America and they had wall or they had

Barry Allen so now they had the best of

both worlds they could just kind of pick

and choose which one they wanted to read

this lasted for 19 years until 198 85

when Barry Allen died in crisis UND

definite Earth and Wally West who up

until that point had been a sidekick was

Now The Flash and you know what Barry

Allen fans said Wally West sucks Wally

West is trash Wally West does not need

to be the flash now this lasted almost

20 years or it lasted a little bit

longer than that actually lasted until

2011 you know when Barry Allen was the

flash again the main Flash the only

flash with the new 52 and you know what

Wally West fan said

so it's not like it's something brand

new it's not like it's something that's

just now happening it's something that's

been around this entire time but comic

storian had a damn good point when he

said here's the issue Iron Man fans sit

down and they say yes Tony Stark's done

everything Tony Stark found out he had a

long lost brother Tony Stark found out

he was adopted and met his biological

mom Tony Stark's been part of the

Guardians of the Galaxy Tony Stark's

pissed off the whole superhero community

in Civil War Tony Stark decided to be a

dick just for the sake of being a dick

and Superior Iron Man Tony Stark has suc

comeb to alcoholism and lost everything

and demon in a bottle Tony Stark has

done it all so they say yeah sure okay

there's only so much you can do with a

Tony Stark story but don't just suddenly

get rid of him make something new that's

literally your job as a comic Creator is

not to rehash old stuff but to make good

stuff make new stuff use your

imagination that's that's what you're

paid to do that's what we as comic book

readers buy comics 4 is new things if

that wasn't the case we'd all just be

reading crisis on infinite Earth over

and over and over again in DC Comics

instead we get new and we get incredible

and we get Amazing Stories and Ben has

did a great job with Iron Man and he's

kind of you know coming back around

again but the reason why fans are upset

is because they sit down and they say

but I've been reading Tony Stark forever

like I've been reading him for so long I

love Tony Stark I want to see Tony Stark

come back and even if he can't just let

me kind of you know say bye man it's

been real don't just make me read Riri

Williams because I don't know her

character I don't know anything about

her I don't know I can't relate to her

you know there's nothing about her that

I find interesting I find Tony Stark

interesting but I don't find her

interesting and so because of that now

they're like well why am I going to read

Iron Man if if Tony slark's not there

they don't have a reason to not only

that they feel cheated they feel like

Marvel's coming along and saying you

need to read this all right this is the

only thing you're you don't have any

options here you don't have any choices

name me the last time you were okay with

somebody coming along and telling you

you didn't have a choice in a situation

no one's ever okay with that it's just

the way people are but it's like that

with with every facet of comic books you

know it's not a racial thing Jane Foster

became Thor and you know what Odin Sun

fan said the same thing that Barry Allen

fans said when Wally West became the

Flash oh Jane Foster sucks Jane Foster's

trash Jane Foster does not need to be

Thor I've been reading Odin's son since

before Ragnarok or maybe there were some

people that read Thor Ragnarok were like

damn man Thor is dead and then J Michael

shinski picked up the title brought Thor

back they watched him recreate Asgard

they watched him find the spiritual

Essences of all the asgardians return

them to the normal bodies they they read

all that stuff as it all just kind of

progressed and then suddenly Odin son's

gone and Jane Foster's Thor and they

felt cheated and they felt angry because

they felt like all that time and money

all that energy had been invested was

just basically thrown away but comic

storan had a great point when he said

this only goes so far diversity is not

an inherently bad thing what you have to

do is give people choices you have to

sit a person down and say Here's two

titles here's Tony Stark and here's rby

Williams pick which one you want now in

my mind for me if Marvel sat me down and

said hey Rob here's a Riri Williams Iron

Man title and here's a Tony Stark Iron

Man title which one do you want to read

I'm reading Riri Williams because

there's nothing in that comic book they

can tell me that I probably haven't seen

before in some form or fashion maybe

they can and if I do I'll just kind of

skim through it but my interest will be

in ruy Williams I will read that from

front to back and take my time so it's

it's not a racial thing amadas Cho you

know it's really just about the fact

that people become invested in

characters they become attached to those

characters they watched the characters

grow they watched the Mythos grow Mark

Wade introduced the speed force Mark

Wade basically established the

chronological order of speedsters talked

about how it all came into existence how

it all happened how speedsters got their

powers now Jeff John's changed a lot of

that when he took over the flash title

but the fact remains that fans were

there when they were learning how the

speed force functions that with Speeders

it's not because they were just D with

chemicals one day and they could run

super fast there's this you know

enigmatic energy force out there that

they draw all their speed from and when

they die they merge with it that's their

Heaven that's their afterlife it was it

was great storytelling and they were

there for all that and then now they're

suddenly being told no no no no that's

not there anymore you know and so

because of that this is why diversity is

really kind of a big thing is because

it's not fans who are inherently against

comic book changes because of because of

race and so I don't really like the

notion of diversity because what

diversity indicates is that fans are

against these characters because of

their because of their minorities

they're against these characters because

they're black or because you know

they're of of Asian orientation you know

because they're they're a woman or

something like that that's stupid

they're against this change because the

characters that they know in love are

suddenly just not there anymore as it

stands right now in Marvel Comics Peter

Parker is the last man standing he's the

last guy who Spider-Man and you know why

he's still Spider-Man because there's a

movie with him coming out in July so

it's it's just one of those weird things

I

mean stop referring to comic book fans

as racist because they're against

diversity comic book fans are just like

anybody else comic book fans are like

NFL fans if somebody had been following

the Chicago Bears for years and years

and years and years I don't even know if

they're a team anymore but they've been

following the Chicago Bears forever and

then suddenly the Bears uprooted and

went to a different city they'd feel

betrayed because they were loyal fans

they were there through thick and thin

it's just like anything else it's just

like anything that people get attached

to they don't want to see it change not

because they're adverse to change but

because they love the character that

they have because they they're attached

to that character they don't want to see

it go away but anyway guys uh I'm going

to go ahead and bring this video to an

end I just want to kind of get my two

cents out there um I was you know um I

haven't looked at the comments on comic

story's video I imagine there might be

some kind of people who were detractors

or or something like that but in truth I

stand with with Benny on this one I mean

I stand with comic story and I think

he's right you know diversity is not a

bad thing in and of itself it becomes a

bad thing when you don't give people a

choice but to read diversity give people

a choice let them choose what they want

to read let them choose stories they

like and stories that they don't like

let them stick with the characters that

they know and love after all that's why

DC rebirth is crushing Marvel you know

if the diversity of initiative of Marvel

Comics was so great then why are their

Comics selling so poorly in any event

guys we're going to bring this video to

an end and I will catch you all later

peace