Stock Trading Millionaire Says Forex Is A Scam - Umar Ashraf

Summary

In this insightful podcast, renowned trader Omar Ashra shares his trading philosophy and journey, emphasizing the importance of a strong mission and disciplined approach. He discusses the significance of learning from experience, the challenges of maintaining consistency, and the psychological aspects of trading. Ashra also talks about his ventures, including Trad Zella, a trading journal app aimed at empowering traders with data-driven insights and educational resources. His reflections on growth, both personal and professional, reveal a strategic mindset focused on long-term vision and value creation beyond financial success.

Takeaways

• 😀 The importance of having a strong mission is emphasized; success in trading often follows when one is driven by a purpose beyond just making money.
• 💰 A trader's reputation is built not just on profitability, but also on demonstrating value and proof of their trading strategies.
• 📈 The speaker reflects on the significance of transparency in the trading community, advocating for showing both successes and failures to build trust.
• 🧠 Mental capital is as crucial as financial capital in trading; losses can impact confidence and the ability to execute trades effectively.
• 🤔 The necessity of a systematic approach to trading is highlighted, as relying purely on luck or momentary judgment can lead to inconsistent results.
• 🔄 The idea of 'refining the game plan' is introduced, where traders should continually assess and adjust their strategies based on market feedback.
• 🚫 The potential pitfalls of public trading are discussed, including the psychological impact of audience reactions on a trader's performance.
• 🏆 The pursuit of becoming a better trader is likened to an athletic pursuit, where the goal is not just financial gain but achieving a high level of proficiency.
• 🤝 Networking in trading is not just about making connections but about offering value and learning from others who are at a similar or higher level of success.
• 🛠 The development of a trading tool, Trad Zella, is driven by a mission to empower traders with data and education, rather than just financial gain.
• 🏁 The concept of 'resetting' after each trading day or period is presented as a way to maintain objectivity and prevent complacency in trading.

Q & A

What is the significance of having a strong mission in trading according to the speaker?

The speaker believes that a strong mission is essential because it attracts money even when you don't actively seek it. It's about having a clear goal and purpose that drives success in trading.

How does Omar define a 'bad trade' even if it results in profit?

Omar considers a trade as 'bad' if it doesn't fit his game plan, playbook, or predefined criteria, regardless of the outcome. Even if it makes money, it's written off as bad because it lacks a systematic approach.

What does Omar mean by 'mental capital' and why is it important?

Mental capital refers to the confidence, ability to execute, and trust in one's trading strategies. Losing mental capital after a significant loss can be detrimental as it affects future trading decisions and performance.

What is the importance of transparency and proof in building a brand in the trading industry according to the speaker?

Transparency and proof are crucial for credibility. The speaker emphasizes that unless one has 'skin in the game', their opinions or advice on trading matters may not hold much weight. Demonstrating personal success through proof strengthens the brand.

How does Omar approach the learning process in trading?

Omar believes in learning through experience and by putting theory into action. He suggests that understanding what works and what doesn't through personal experience is more valuable than just following others' advice.

What is the role of repetition or 'reps' in Omar's trading strategy?

Repetition helps Omar refine his trading skills and make them second nature. It reduces hesitation and emotional interference during execution, leading to better trading decisions.

How does Omar handle the public scrutiny that comes with being a well-known figure in the trading space?

Omar has learned to tune out external opinions, focusing on his own trading performance and personal growth. He doesn't let compliments or criticisms affect his trading decisions.

What is the significance of the 'reset' mentality in Omar's trading philosophy?

The reset mentality allows Omar to maintain a clean slate daily, avoiding complacency after good days and quickly moving on from bad days. It's about consistently performing and not relying on past successes.

What is Omar's view on the role of luck in trading?

While acknowledging that luck can play a part in individual trades, Omar emphasizes that long-term success in trading requires a systematic approach and consistent strategy execution.

How does Omar manage the risk in his trades?

Omar manages risk by focusing on the amount he's willing to lose based on his account size and the trade specifics. He believes in risking an appropriate amount and being prepared for the outcome, whether it's a win or a loss.

What lessons has Omar learned from his biggest trading loss in 2020?

The 2020 loss taught Omar the importance of maintaining control over risk, not being swayed by market conditions or public opinion, and the value of mental capital in trading.

What is the role of a trading journal in Omar's trading process?

A trading journal serves as a tool for reflection and learning. It helps Omar track his trades, understand his performance, and identify areas for improvement outside of just win/loss ratios.

How does Omar view the relationship between his trading success and his social media presence?

Omar sees his social media presence as a platform to share his journey transparently. He believes in showing both the highs and lows of trading to give a realistic view of the profession.

What advice does Omar have for new traders learning from online resources?

Omar advises new traders to combine online learning with personal experience in the market. He emphasizes the importance of实操, or putting trades into action, to truly learn and understand the market dynamics.

Outlines

00:00

💰 The Philosophy of Trading and Mission-Driven Success

The speaker emphasizes the importance of having a strong mission in trading, which he believes attracts wealth even when not actively pursued. He discusses the concept of being a successful trader with an 80% win rate and the importance of not focusing solely on financial gains but rather on the process and strategy. Omar, a prominent figure in the trading industry, is introduced as a guest who exemplifies this approach, having experienced both significant earnings and the challenges of maintaining a systematic trading approach.

05:02

📈 Learning from Experience: The Evolution of a Trader

This paragraph delves into the journey of a trader's learning process, highlighting the transition from following others' advice to developing one's own strategies through experience and repetition. The trader discusses the importance of learning from both success and failure, the value of having a mentor, and the necessity of being actively engaged in the market to gain clarity and understanding. The conversation also touches on the role of prop firms and the benefits they offer to traders.

10:04

💼 The Impact of Public Perception on Trading Performance

The speaker reflects on the mental challenges of trading in the public eye, discussing the effects of public comments and opinions on a trader's confidence and performance. He shares personal experiences of both positive and negative feedback and how learning to tune out external noise has been crucial for his success. The importance of maintaining a clear mind and focusing on personal trading strategies rather than external validation is emphasized.

15:05

🚀 Growth and Reflection: A Trader's Journey Over the Years

This section provides an overview of the trader's growth over the years, discussing the significant milestones and lessons learned. The speaker talks about his biggest trading loss in 2020 and how it taught him the importance of risk management and mental capital. He also shares insights on how he has become more selective with trades to maintain momentum and avoid overconfidence, leading to a more mature and grounded approach to trading.

20:05

🤔 The Mental Game of Trading: Overcoming Insecurities and External Influences

The speaker discusses the mental aspects of trading, including the impact of public perception and the importance of self-belief. He shares how he has learned to ignore compliments and criticisms, focusing instead on his own trading performance. The conversation also touches on the trader's evolving approach to social media and public exposure, and the challenges of maintaining a clear head amidst the noise of public opinion.

25:06

🤝 The Art of Networking and Selective Relationships

In this paragraph, the speaker talks about his approach to networking and building relationships. He emphasizes the importance of having a small, selective circle of close contacts and the criteria he uses to maintain these relationships. The speaker also discusses his willingness to help others in the trading community by sharing advice and insights, based on his own experiences and lessons learned.

30:06

🧐 Analytical Mindset: Understanding People and Their Motivations

The speaker describes his analytical approach to understanding people, their motivations, and behaviors. He discusses how he pays attention to what people share and withhold in conversations, using these insights to assess their character and potential. The paragraph also touches on the speaker's views on networking and his belief in the importance of offering value in any relationship or interaction.

35:06

🌟 Vision and Passion: Building Beyond a Trading Journal

This section focuses on the speaker's passion for building Trad Zella, a tool aimed at helping traders become profitable. He shares his vision for the platform, which goes beyond being a simple trading journal. The speaker discusses the evolution of Trad Zella, its current features, and his aspirations for its future development, emphasizing the importance of mission and vision in driving success.

40:08

💼 Financial Freedom and Strategic Business Growth

The speaker reflects on his financial journey, discussing how he has reached a point of financial stability that allows him to focus on building and creating rather than purely on financial gains. He shares insights on his strategic approach to business growth, including the decision to reinvest profits back into the company and prepare for future challenges. The paragraph also highlights the speaker's long-term vision for his projects and his focus on value creation.

45:10

🎯 The Billionaire Mindset: Aiming for Excellence in Business

In this paragraph, the speaker clarifies his perspective on aiming for billionaire status, emphasizing that it is not about the money but rather the level of success and achievement in business. He discusses the importance of setting high goals and the potential for the projects he is involved in to reach significant valuations. The speaker also shares his thoughts on the competitive nature of business and the value of continuous learning and growth.

50:11

🔄 The Ebb and Flow of Trading: Adapting to Market Realities

The speaker discusses the lessons learned from his trading experiences, particularly the understanding that the market is always right and the importance of not trying to control it. He talks about the need to focus on controllable factors such as win rate and risk management. The paragraph also touches on the concept of resetting after both successes and failures to maintain a balanced approach to trading.

55:13

🏆 The Consistent Trader: Balancing Activity and Productivity

In the final paragraph, the speaker reflects on his approach to trading, emphasizing the importance of finding a balance between activity and productivity. He shares his strategy of focusing on quick wins and efficient trading setups, allowing him to achieve results with minimal effort. The speaker also discusses his preference for taking profits and stepping away rather than overtrading, highlighting the value of a relaxed and controlled trading mindset.

Keywords

💡Trading

Trading in the context of this video refers to the act of buying and selling financial instruments such as stocks, options, or currencies with the goal of making a profit. It is central to the video's theme as the speaker discusses his experiences and philosophies on trading, emphasizing the importance of having a systematic approach and learning from one's own experiences, as well as the unpredictability of the market.

💡Profitability

Profitability, as discussed in the video, is the ability to generate income or profit from trading activities. The speaker mentions making over $20 million in profit, which underscores the potential financial success achievable in trading. However, it also highlights the importance of a consistent and disciplined approach to trading, rather than relying on luck or chance.

💡Mission

In the video, the concept of a 'Mission' is tied to the idea that having a strong purpose or goal can influence one's success in trading. The speaker suggests that a clear mission can attract wealth, even when one is not actively seeking it. This is related to the overarching theme of setting clear intentions and having a defined path in one's trading journey.

💡Win Rate

The win rate in trading is the percentage of successful trades out of the total number of trades made. The speaker mentions an 80% win rate as an example of a strong trading performance metric. This term is significant as it reflects the goal of many traders to maximize the number of profitable trades and minimize losses.

💡Risk Management

Risk management is the process of identifying, evaluating, and controlling risk in trading. The speaker discusses the importance of understanding and accepting the risks involved in trading, and how it is not just about the financial loss but also the mental and confidence impact of a loss. This concept is crucial for maintaining a sustainable trading practice.

💡Mental Capital

Mental capital refers to the psychological resources and resilience a trader has to withstand the pressures and challenges of trading. The speaker emphasizes the loss of mental capital, such as confidence and trust in one's trading strategies, which can be more detrimental than the financial loss itself. This concept is key to understanding the holistic impact of trading on an individual.

💡Execution

Execution in trading is the act of implementing a trading strategy or decision in the market. The speaker talks about the challenges many traders face with execution, particularly when it comes to taking action with real capital. It is a critical aspect of trading as a good strategy must be effectively executed to be profitable.

💡Transparency

Transparency in the context of this video refers to the open and honest sharing of one's trading experiences, including both successes and failures. The speaker advocates for transparency as a means to build trust and credibility, as well as to provide valuable insights to others. This concept is integral to the speaker's approach to social media and his brand.

💡Replication

Replication in trading means to copy or mimic the strategies and actions of another successful trader. The speaker warns against relying solely on replication, emphasizing the need for personal experience and understanding of the market. This term is significant as it touches on the idea of learning from others while also developing one's unique approach to trading.

💡Experience

Experience in trading is the accumulation of knowledge and skills gained through active participation in the market. The speaker stresses that no course or program can replace the value of personal experience, which is essential for understanding market dynamics and developing trading instincts. This concept is central to the video's message on the importance of hands-on learning in trading.

💡Consistency

Consistency in trading refers to the ability to perform at a steady level over time, regardless of market conditions. The speaker reflects on his own trading performance over the years, noting that even in years with significant losses, maintaining consistency allowed him to end the year profitably. This term is key to the video's narrative on the long-term view of trading success.

Highlights

Trader's belief in the power of a strong mission attracting wealth even when not explicitly sought.

Importance of having a systematic approach and a game plan in trading, rather than relying on luck.

The psychological impact of significant financial losses on a trader's confidence and decision-making.

Omar Ashra's introduction as a titan in the trading industry with a growing reputation.

The significance of transparency and proof in building trust and a personal brand in trading.

The evolution of a trader's strategy from following others to developing a personal methodology.

The indispensable role of experience in becoming a profitable trader, beyond educational resources.

The daily routine of a trader, including setting up game plans and reflecting on market outcomes.

The challenge of execution in trading and how practice helps to mitigate hesitation and fear.

Omar's experience with prop firms and the importance of finding those with a good reputation.

The impact of public trading on a trader's mindset and the importance of separating external opinions.

Omar's reflections on his trading journey, including significant profits and learning moments.

The importance of risk management and how a trader's perspective on risk evolves over time.

The mental shift required to view losses not just in financial terms but also their broader implications.

Omar's insights on the development of a trader's public persona and handling criticism.

The role of networking in a trader's career and the value of giving without expecting returns.

Omar's vision for Trad Zella as a tool beyond a trading journal, with future enhancements.

The strategic approach to business growth, focusing on building value rather than immediate profit.

The philosophical shift from being financially driven to being mission-driven in business.

Omar's thoughts on achieving a billion-dollar valuation not for the money but as a measure of success.

The personal preference for a stable trading approach, focusing on consistent wins rather than maximum effort.

The concept of resetting after each trading day or year, focusing on continuous improvement.

The idea of controlling the controllables in trading and accepting the market's inherent unpredictability.

Transcripts

a Trader who has proven himself to

profit over $20 million and probably one

of the biggest names in the trading

space I'm a strong believer when you

have a strong enough Mission the money

shows up even if you don't want it to

show up it's going to come imagine you

go and you're like I want to be the best

Trader that can have a 80% win rate

let's just say with a three R multiple

whatever the case is imagine you hit

that what will happen you will make

money simple but if you go and you're

like well I want to make $10 million

cool it's not just going to pop up here

well ladies and gents we have a big one

this week introducing Omar ashra a good

friend of mine Pioneer in the industry

and exactly what this show is about he

is a Titan of industry and he is not

only a Titan of today he's a Titan of

tomorrow because he's only on the uput

trajectory I've had days where I've made

tons of money and I've gotten purely

lucky and when I say luck I mean in

terms of there was no systematic

approach to that trade it was just

something that made sense in the moment

that I thought made sense but then when

I go back to it I'm like well it didn't

fit my game plan it didn't fit my

playbook it didn't fit any criteria that

I had so I have to say okay I'll take

the money but I have to write this off

as a bad trade it's not always the real

Financial Capital that you lose it's the

mental Capital that you lose when you

have such a big loss yes you lose the

money but alongside with the money what

else do you lose you lose confidence you

lose your ability to execute you lose

your ability to trust your setups and

Trust what you're doing and that is a

recipe for a big big mess I'm by Design

I've always been very lazy where in

trading I'm like okay well this is

working it's refined how do I make more

by doing the least amount of work okay

two ways

hey ladies and gents welcome back to

another episode I'm joined by a good

friend of mine and hopefully I think

this will be our best episode yet uh so

Omar ashra you've probably seen him

around uh taking over the Internet

especially in the trading space and he

became a good friend of mine a year ago

now through Riz Riz connected us on the

round table uh and then we just stayed

in touch um hung out often and because

we've built a friendship now I think I

can get a lot out of him that he hasn't

maybe said online so that's the goal for

this but yeah om thank you very much for

for making this happen thank you for

having me on man yeah that's why that's

one of the reasons I'm excited for this

pod cuz I go on some

pods and it's a lot of repeated

questions and I think people don't know

the depth of questions to ask me uh so I

think because of our friendship in the

past year I think it'll be a fun fun pod

for sure so what I want to do is skip

the life story by now they probably know

who you are and and seen it on another

bunch of podcasts uh so we can skip the

whole credentials who you are what

you've done and I want to just jump

right in uh first of all let's I want to

do it in phases so let's start off with

your trading itself and then obviously

you have a lot of other projects in life

you've done a lot of cool things so then

we can kind of uh direct and orientate

through that so just starting off with

trading you have probably the best

reputation in the industry and I think

you've LED with not just value but also

proof uh and the example that I've seen

is you want to learn something you can

learn it from your economics High School

teacher or you can learn it from Warren

Buffett they both tell you to in invest

in s SMP you want to learn from Warren

Buffett and I think that's probably why

your brand is grown in the way it has so

I just want to hear your reflection on

why you took the route to take social

media up and then be as transparent as

you have been and why you think others

aren't doing the same as you have

done I mean why others aren't doing the

same I think everyone can answer that

right that's not a that's not a hard one

to answer but uh my my Approach has

always been you know if I'm talking

about something I want to showcase that

I've done it right same thing in you

know when people talk about oh buy Tesla

Buy Apple buy this buy that make this

investment I think unless you have skin

in the game your opinion doesn't matter

right so if you come to me and you're

like hey bro buy this stock and I'm like

okay well how much skin in the game do

you have and you own nothing I don't

really care about your opinion right

same thing with if you come to me and

you're trying to teach me how to build a

certain business you're trying to teach

me how to you know do something at a at

a certain scale I want to see the proof

that you've done it because anyone can

read off a book and take that

information or watch a YouTube video and

kind of make it into their own opinions

and you know way they want to teach it

but I think people that have been

through actual War have the real wisdom

and I want to see people that have the

actual wisdom by going through War so if

I want to learn something the first

thing I look at is all right show me the

proof so for me for the past x amount of

years it's every year hey look this is

what I did every year and and for people

that don't know there's years that I

haven't done the best compared to the

year prior right I think in 20121 I did

7 and A2 and then the year after I did

under two 2 million in in profits

trading so I cut down 60 70% the next

year but I'm still showing it because

it's like hey this is my journey and I'm

just trying to show you guys what's

happening within my journey and how

trading really is and I think if you

want to build a legitimate business

product service when you are raw and

like real with it people will kind of

connect with you yeah and we've seen

your brand blow up I think Ju Just then

last year was 200k or below 200k you

ended the year at 600 so you tripled

your audience in the space of a year

year um and yeah so what I what I wanted

to get into with the trading element was

you obviously it's the stock side

whereas I'm in Forex so there is a bit

of a difference there but um when you

were coming to learn was there a lot of

information online that you could piece

together from or was majority of your

success and profitability through you

took the schools of thought information

but then you had to build your own way

and navigate through experience and Reps

as opposed to just learning was was it

that was it the latter uh I think when I

first started it was a lot of just

following one person doing what they're

doing and I think in 2013 it was a lot

of penny stocks like that was like the

big thing penny stocks especially the

way I was focusing on the market so I

went in in the route of trading penny

stocks midcaps small caps and then doing

whatever anyone on YouTube would tell me

to do because in my head I'm like oh

well they're on YouTube they have X

amount of views they must know what

they're talking about uh over time I've

learned majority of people have no idea

what they're talking about right they're

more so YouTubers than Traders

and for me to be good at this craft I

need to kind of make sense of the market

and what a lot of people talk about

doesn't really make sense and I have to

put it in I have to take Theory and put

it into action and kind of see so when I

started doing that I started getting my

reps in uh you know there's components

of the market that made sense there's

components of the market that didn't

make sense and from there I was like

okay well let's just try to gravitate

what is working and why it's working and

what's not working and why it's not

working and once I started puzzling that

together it started giv me giving me

more clarity in the markets MH do you

believe it's possible to just as a

newcomer become profitable become a

Trader through just online resources or

do you think that's the beginning but

you got to also then just spend an

extended period of time figuring it out

yourself I I think I think no matter

what course or what program you take it

can be the best trading program in the

world the best teacher you will have is

experience in the markets right it's

just it's it's given I like like I don't

think I can ever tell anyone hey give me

x amount and I will make you or help you

become a profitable Trader yes I can

guide you on the proper things to focus

on and the proper things not to focus on

but you still have to put the Reps in

like I can't help you get in shape right

without you going to the gym so as a

Trader you have to be on the field

putting on trades because also when you

put on trades with real Capital you

realize so many things about yourself

mistakes that you make fears that you

have that pop up on the trading screen

and you can't learn that without you

actually doing it and you putting it

into action mhm in that process for

yourself which is probably the best part

of a decade of just doing your reps

getting your own experience what were

you doing in that time frame to actually

do that cuz this this is a sentence that

people say you know go and find your own

experience but what does that truly mean

like dayto day what are you actually

doing to get that and um how do you

navigate yourself to know you're on the

right lines or not wasting time what

what does that day-to-day look like of

doing the Reps sure so early on the Reps

for me would be for example if if I'm

starting a trading session trading New

York session or you know 9:30 a.m.

eastern time uh I'm setting up game

plans just something simple as setting

up game plans and what I think is going

to happen in the market and why right

and then after the session is done I'm

done trading just going back to that

game plan and looking at how the market

act like what actually happened just

comparing that one kind of situation day

by day helped me grow help me learn

right help me learn oh wow you know a

week before big economic news is about

to hit the market we typically see flat

action cuz big players are on the

sideline yes someone can tell you that

and explain it to you but when you see

it happen and you experience it it

sticks with you right but the way you

make it stick with you is by putting in

the Reps of writing those things down

and then coming back to it and being

actively engaged in what's happening so

doing something as small as that uh

doing things that's terms of going back

to my trades and and looking at them

right and being honest where I've had

days where I've made tons of money and

I've gotten purely lucky like purely

lucky and when I say luck I mean in

terms of there was no systematic

approach to that trade it was just

something that made sense in the moment

that I thought made sense but then when

I go back to it I'm like well it didn't

fit my game plan it didn't fit my

playbook it didn't fit any criteria that

I had so I essentially got lucky so I

have to say okay I'll take the money but

I have to write this off as a bad trade

yes vice versa when I have I've had bad

trades in the moment I got in first

traded I'm like oh man I lost money this

was a terrible trade and then when I go

back to it I'm like no this wasn't a

good this wasn't a bad trade this was

actually a great trade right I have put

out the risk and it didn't work out

that's the market that's what I signed

up for I am required to put at risk I'm

required to have trades that I'm going

to lose money on I lost money it was the

appropriate amount that I was willing to

lose based on my account size based on

the trade I was taking whatever the case

is and it just didn't work out and there

was nothing that I could do in this

predicament to make it better and I have

to learn and live with that so doing

those reps doing those things over time

they become second nature to you and you

become very kind of fluid in the market

especially with your execution because

the biggest problem I think people have

is execution they can have they can have

a good road map a good game plan uh good

playbooks good setups everything but

when it's time to execute with real

Capital they hesitate they're scared

they double guess themselves they're

over whatever the case is so I think

when you get those reps in over and over

again you kind of reduce those feelings

emotions and and whatnot in this day and

age prop firms is the best opportunity

for Traders but the problem with prop

firms is a lot of them have major red

flags two large commission two large

spread huge percentage gain targets

Alpha capital on the other hand has some

of the best trading conditions in the

industry with Z commissions minimal

slippage very competitive spreads and

Alpha capital is one of the few prop

firms that has never denied a payout and

they have a clean reputation which is

why I'm proud to be working alongside

them using the link in the description

or the code to you can go ahead and get

any challenge for 30% off when it came

to your last 3 four years let's say in

your trading you've publicly mentioned I

forget the numbers but 7 mil 1 year 2

million another year so if you can just

give me a quick summary of the last

three years and I want to Peg it to a

question so the last three years roughly

what was your end of year all three

years probably 2020 2021 2022

three probably more than 15 just four

years probably more and how would that

be broken down because you said one was

a big year then it was less I I it was I

think 2020

was I don't quote me of the numbers but

I'll maybe mix up a year or two I think

one year was like two then one year was

like 7.5 I think one year was 1 14 I

think one was 4.4 last year was

4.4 uh but 2020 and 2022 maybe I mixed

them one was 1.4 and one was like 2

million I mean regardless big years and

big numbers

and just just something about two of

those years right uh I think it was

20120 is when I had my biggest trading

loss right MH uh and that was publicly

as well yeah I had my biggest trading

loss I still closed the year out

profitable over seven figures so that's

one and it's not to you know brag about

it or oh my God look it's more so to

Showcase that it's not the year that I

had it's the stuff that happened within

the year that as a Trader you're still

able to come out and I think the other

year which was

2022 uh I necessarily didn't trade for

majority of the year I even have like a

whole thing on my Instagram I didn't

trade for half the year uh primarily

because that was the year we were

building trade Z yeah right uh so so

that's what it was so it there were very

few years where I was actively day

trading every single day every single

month to month to month to month so

that's why you see the big difference in

2021 to the other years cuz people ask

me well you had such a big year in 2021

what went wrong the other one or two

years and it's like well wasn't a level

wasn't Level Playing Field in terms of

how active I was trading it wasn't the

same 2020 I was actively trading well

but just that big losing month just kind

of destroyed me for like four or five

months confidence wise so which year

would you say therefore is the year

you're most proud of given maybe it's

not the one that you made the most money

maybe it was climbing back from a big

loss or I think it had to be 2020

absolutely yeah because I think when

because I've never lost that amount of

money second it was public right I

showed the market which I was up on at a

point then when feds cut the raid and

started pouring money into the markets

for me to switch my position which is

what I should have done I doubled down I

was just so like I'm going to be right I

put it out publicly and every single

thing I touched after I lost money on I

remember I showed it Tesla I lost money

I showed it Zillow I lost money on

anything I touched because I was in such

a mentality of the market can't go up it

has to go down y

and uh you know from ment from a mental

point of view it's kind of like oh

I think I'm about to have my first red

year this was like in May of 2020 I was

like I'm going to have my first red year

and then it went into well do I not know

how to trade this Market because you

know you start listening to what people

are saying comments people like oh well

he's been trading in bull market for his

whole life so that's why he's been

making money and then you you go

wait and then you know when you take a

step back you're look well it doesn't

matter as a Trader if it's a bull market

or bare Market because I made money both

ways but then you still let those things

start bothering you so for me to come

out of that year green and not just like

break even green over seven figures

green was kind it gave me the confidence

booster of like okay well I now realize

even more that this stuff happen in

trading and I realize even more that my

risk has to be on top of everything cuz

that big loss could have been avoided

but I let my risk go out of control

because I wasn't looking at how much I'm

risking I was looking at what I could

make if if I'm right and I was so

anchored towards I'm going to be right

so the more money and more risk I put in

the more money I will make so I factored

out that I'm going to be wrong and that

kind of just put things that I already

knew in perspective like this is

what happens when you do that and the

biggest thing I learned from that wasn't

the mental Capital right it's not always

about the it's not no not me it's not

always the real Financial Capital that

you lose it's the mental Capital that

you lose when you have such a big loss

yes you lose the money

but alongside with the money what else

do you lose you lose confidence you lose

your ability to execute you lose your

ability to trust your setups and Trust

what you're doing so every trade

afterwards like I said I hesitated on am

I sure is it working you know so things

just got really messy so that's why now

when I look at trades I'm like okay well

I'm risking 30 grand of trade okay

well let me not look at the trade from a

perspective of oh I will make 90 grand

or I will make 100 Grand what else will

I lose if I'm wrong and I look at every

trade

going so that shed my mindset so you

don't consider the loss just in the

dollar amount it's the L plus the other

Domino effects of the loss it depends

where I am but yeah a lot of times yeah

cuz like if I'm doing really really well

right like let's say I'm on a hot streak

uh I kind of start getting more on the

tip of my toes then because I'm like

okay well I'm on a hot streak if I

overplay my hand on the wrong spot one

or two times I don't want to give up too

much profits I don't want to lose too

much money and I also don't want to

immediately destroy this momentum I have

so I want to get more selective because

when you do really really well as a

Trader you start developing more blind

spots right and I've seen that happen

like I've seen myself go like a

three-week winning streak and then the

week after I have the worst trading week

and I'm like how do I even take this

trade and I realize it's those mental

blind spots because you start winning

for so long that you stop doing the

things you were originally doing you

stop looking at trades from a different

perspective you start looking like I

can't be wrong and that's happened to me

so uh ju just kind of taking those

lessons and compiling them together was

was big for me in in those years that

You' mentioned were you also public as

public the whole time yeah okay so I

wanted to ask upon that element too

because you're talking about the mental

real estate taken up by a loss but then

you got a whole other Cloud on top of

you mentally which is the public domain

the opinions the comments and so forth

which is both ways probably where when

you are going through the winds you get

that euphoric high of I've made profit

but then you also get the validation of

the whole world saying you're a legend

so that can that can skew you in one way

and the other that's never that that's

never when I was younger sure 22 23 now

I if anyone says anything to

me it it doesn't it doesn't boost up my

ego at all like I I I've learned to shut

that off like I like someone can come to

me and say oh you're you're this you're

that I don't care I I don't want to hear

it I'm I'm I'm it's going to go in one

year out the other and I think you need

that

whereas previously when you were younger

it yeah of course yeah you you know

you're younger you hear things from

people cuz it it puts you at a point of

you get very comfortable mhm that's

number one number two it Alters how you

think to a certain degree especially if

you're trading you start getting

comfortable relax you start going oh I

know what I'm doing I got this down and

that is a recipe for a big big mess yeah

right so I now I don't like people say

things I'm just like great I I want to

tune it out is it easy to that yeah very

easy because also you have to mentally

know who you're anchoring off cuz

like you have to Anchor off people that

are at a very high level and are doing

extremely well and obviously when you

get there you then anchor of higher and

higher people and there's always stages

in life right so for me it's always been

looking at things from that perspective

like for example when I was I think 24 I

bought a I bought a car and people like

oh my God you got this car so great

great great you know and I'm like okay

well it's cool but there's people that

have $60 million jets $70 million jets

and it's not the idea isn't the jet I'm

not trying to make it all about that but

it's to Anchor yourself and to keep

yourself grounded at what stage you're

at right so I I don't listen to I don't

like to listen to compliment so

therefore is it easier for you now than

before because as you've ascended in the

social media sphere and you've kind of

were lower down and you've worked your

way up and now you're you're kind of up

there is it therefore the compliments or

the bad comments of the people in the

industry don't affect you because you've

achieved what you came out to achieve

yeah I mean the bad comments did affect

me early on now they don't unless it's

coming from someone that's doing really

really well and better than me sure but

if you're not doing better I not an

egotistic way depends on where it's

coming from is it like healthy criticism

to help me improve which I'm open to

listening to from all angles or is it

pure hate and most of the time it's pure

hate and I'm like you can't please

everyone yeah exactly so this year so

this is coming into my eighth year so

it's only only this year is the first

time I've decided to take a similar step

which is try and put my neck on the line

a little bit and and be a bit public so

that's why I wanted to mention is

because it's actually I've been

performing really well which is kind of

like could have gone either way I could

have performed really bad or really well

and as we know your wins and losses are

randomly distributed it's not just going

to be win loss win loss so I've been on

I've been on a good streak and it's so

nicely that it's been publicly uh so as

we're filming now it's week 12 and I'm

up 40% on on the public signals a lot of

people are talking about that I remember

I spoke to someone uh they brought that

up like yeah yo what are you's doing on

on live it's cool yeah so for me

the the trading performance and the

profitability is what what I've been

doing for a while not to that level it's

only in the last 2 three years that I've

got very strong but that was always

behind the scenes so now when I'm doing

it publicly I thought probably naively

that I could just keep doing it and it's

not going to affect me um and it hasn't

affected my performance at all which is

good but I it's kind of like it's

something I'm avoiding but I know it's

coming where it's it's I'm seeing the

comments and when I'm winning a trade

the comments are sick so then that is

affecting me like okay cool you know I'm

getting that approval people see that

I'm Legit I've been saying I'm Legit for

years now they're seeing it but then it

happened to me where I had like it was

when I was around 35% up I had three

losses in a row and you're the worst

Trader you're the worst Trader in the

world y yeah and I was like because I

get it people are like following along

so they didn't join on day one they've

joined on week 10 week 12 whatever so

they just see me three losses in a row

so those comments they hurt it didn't my

trading yet but they hurt and then then

I had a trade the next day that I took

myself and I didn't put it as a signal I

was like what if it's another fourth one

whatever but it ended up being a win

which would have covered those losses so

I can already see early on how it can

cloud and affect performance and then

maybe if I'm doing this for a year how

it's going to affect other things um cuz

it is very sensitive and for me I it's

annoying but the compliments I don't

feel but the Nega I don't know why maybe

I should feel them the odd comment from

a ghost account I feel and then the same

thing that you said of like maybe he's

right I'm like how can he be right I've

been doing this for years but he's like

oh you don't know how to trade I'm like

maybe I don't so that when you say to me

that um it doesn't affect you at all why

not kind of thing it doesn't affect me

all now that that's the thing in 2020

2021 maybe it affected me that was my

seventh or eighth year I think I've I've

gotten to a point now where

I've kind of just been hyperfocused here

and I'm like okay this is where I'm

going so if you think I suck at trading

then cool I suck at trading I don't

really care at the end of the year when

I have a p&l to post unless you have a

bigger p&l to post your comment to me is

irrelevant about if I suck at trading or

not and I'm also not trading for you and

I'm not trading for you I am trading

solely for myself so if you think I suck

then great I suck I don't care I'm not

arguing now me at 2020 was very

different okay it would it would mess

with me in both ways right um if some r

random comment on Instagram or whatever

says this guy sucks I want to prove him

wrong yes right and it's exactly that

where you know I I I've traded well for

x amount of time and then when that when

I had that bad

period I am now the worst Trader in the

world to everyone right so that is how

people are that's how you know humans

are going to react but it's ultimately

you have to kind of create a separation

from that yeah keep doing it publicly

keep posting but just you have to kind

of put this wall up to not let the

comments come in cuz if they start

coming in and it really builds a space

and also you have to keep in mind you

haven't had a two three week losing

period right exactly and when it comes

which it will so what happened was I was

always then as you say the comments come

so I'm just jumping to defend my

position I'm like no you don't make

sense because of XYZ so I was always

just replying to these odd hate comments

and someone just commented he was like

what have notice you only reply to the

negatives and all the positives you

don't even reply to so it's a bit of

reality check I was like he's right I'm

focusing on the negative and that will

breed more and and it will just end up

worse but the reason I bring all of this

up is

because as you grow from year one as a

Trader to a decade and Beyond uh it

seems like in your case it's evolved a

lot not just from mental maturity but

also the externals so I think when

everybody starts you have a chip on your

shoulder because you're doing you're

entering an industry that is

non-conventional and therefore it comes

with stigma and usually parents don't

support it friends around you are like

oh you trying to be some Trader now so

it's always negative in the beginning so

then you therefore come with a frame of

I want to prove everyone uh wrong mhm uh

not only yourself but also the people

around you and then as you grow and you

start to enjoy it and you get you know

you find some profitability maybe you

don't care so much about the friends

opinions but you might still care about

your parents opinions CU they are still

checking in like hey are you still you

know you still trying to for me trying

to be a dentist or what is going on uh

and then it seems like you reached the

stage where you've blocked it all out or

maybe there is someone's opinion that

you're still trying to maybe it's your

parents maybe it's someone around you or

is it just now you versus you and it's

on yourself I at this current stage I I

don't think any I don't care about

anyone's opinion it all it also comes

with it doesn't just come from

affirmations and you telling yourself

stuff it comes with the level of

success right okay like when you get to

a level of success

consistently you start having this level

of belief within yourself that becomes

so unshakable from the outside even

within the inside someone in your family

someone close to you you're like okay

well this person doesn't know me then if

this is what they think they don't know

me but that is only that only comes when

you get that success to a point where

you feel very confident like even though

I've had success in 2019 even though

I've had success in 2018 to a certain

degree I didn't feel that confident or

comfortability within myself until maybe

20122 right and what what changed in

that I think I think for me one thing

that changed is when I went back and I

paused and I looked at every year I'm

like well I've been profitable for seven

years out of the nine 10 years at that

certain time and I'm like I've posted a

p&l people say their comments in between

areas people question

things okay I'll have a bad month I know

I'm going to have a bad month I'll have

a bad quarter but I have proven time

over time that I do come out winning at

the end of the year for myself not for

you so I think that gives you a level of

comfortability like for example if I and

I trade live tomorrow and I'm and I

trade terribly for two weeks okay in the

back of my head I'm like okay well this

two week doesn't determine my whole year

yes yes and I've done it for x amount of

years in the past year and then also

when you get so many hate comments CU

I've gotten it from so many people from

friends from certain family members and

so on especially in the trading world

and then you see everyone trying to do

what you're doing after knocking you

down it also shows you that people's

hate or people's dis liken towards what

you're doing isn't about you it's more

about them it's their lack of knowledge

about what you're doing they maybe have

a bad stigma and trading does have a bad

stigma right I I I hate to admit it but

trading is not like I'm not proud to go

out and be like yeah I'm a day trader

I've seen it when we go out for din you

know so it's it's it it's become such a

bad stigma because of how certain

influencers have made it so when people

look at it like oh you're trying to do

this scam nonsense I get where they're

coming from so I have to accept that

their opinion and point of view is only

to the you know experiences they've had

so I just don't take it personal and it

is it is a rough road even for you like

I said when you go through that two

three week uh losing period and it's

going to happen everyone goes through

that public losing period right that's

when the comments will mess with you

that's when what everyone says will put

you in a in in a terrible state of mind

so I'm not that guy that is going to

sell out and throw promotions at you

throw this link that link you've never

seen it from me but trade Zeller is a

little bit different this is a

journaling software that I've been using

myself for about a year now and you've

seen it on my YouTube videos many many

times going back months and months and

because I'm friends with the founder

Umar he's actually given me an exclusive

offer to pass on a discount to you guys

because I told him that it's a valuable

gift I want to give to my audience as a

Trader it's very simple you have to find

an edge and then you have to have a mind

so you can follow that edge but how do

you know if you're performing correctly

or not you have to know your data and

trade Zeller is going to show you

everything that you need beyond the

surface level win rates and performance

and Equity curve it's going to show you

detailed reports it's going to be your

back testing tool strategy testing tool

playbooks notes and it's going to be a

full Journal it makes your journaling

easier faster and more meaningful

whereas if you were just documenting on

Excel spreadsheet or taking screenshots

on your iPhone you wouldn't be able to

pull out the data that you need the

correlation is that the AI within Trad

Zella is pulling out for you there's so

much variety and utility within the

software that I think it's essential for

any Trader so the link somewhere below

is going to take you directly to the

trade Zella website I'm not getting paid

this is for you if you want it if you

like it go ahead and explore it and

probably you'll be using it for years to

come I've noted from you uh from seeing

you online first for however many years

I was following you it was more than 5

years and then meeting you and obviously

you've changed a lot as everyone does in

their 20s um and you've reached a very

like mature spot and and you're very

comfortable in your own skin and so

forth whereas you've also mentioned to

me previously you were maybe more

insecure or trying to prove or trying to

you know all these other things that is

normal that when someone in at the age

of 22 has all that money it's natural um

I want to understand because you've

mentioned you are an introvert by Nature

um and I've also noticed how you carry

yourself at least in Dubai which is very

very small circle by design it seems but

you have a huge Network where whenever

someone's coming to Dubai they know you

they hit you up and then you will you

will always give someone time of day too

and go for lunch go for a dinner whether

you then stay in touch after is another

thing but I wanted to understand is that

a intentional decision of want to have a

small circle of people you speak to but

being on social media therefore everyone

trying to get access to you um and

therefore having a huge network but a

small circle is that by Design is that

anything to do with your trading with

the with the ego conflation and so forth

uh no I think it's my circle has you

know continuously stayed small and it

has actually went smaller year after

year I think this year last year was the

smallest year prior to that was the

smallest until that year year prior to

that was the smallest every year it's

been cutting more and more people down

and it it's been like people that are

close to me I've I've learned

where number one if you are close to me

I I I want to make sure you're at a

certain standard and it doesn't have to

do with money it doesn't have to do with

Finance it doesn't have to do with

status it has to do with how you carry

yourself how you are as an individual

like I've had people that have been

caught up in some real dumb dumb

problems and I'm like if I am next to

you every day and you are doing so much

dumb your bad smell is going to

come on me so hence you don't respect

mine and your relationship understanding

what I'm trying to build and you want to

be like you know what I'm saying so I

have to keep a distance from you same

thing with people coming and asking for

things like if someone in a certain

circle of mine and and I've had people

in the past years ask me for stuff like

hey can you give me money for

example that's that's that's a real big

turnoff because it depends where it's

coming from if you're someone that's

started a business and is a close friend

of mine and you're pushing to be better

and you run into problems I understand

but if you're someone doing nothing with

your life and you have you come to

someone that is pushing and trying to

you know move forward in life hey can I

get money and you're lazy and you're not

doing anything okay well I don't I want

nothing to do with you I don't care who

you are just stay away so you know the

circle wise that's by Design and I'm

very comfortable in having very minimal

people in my life right just I am so

okay with that I I don't want a lot of

people when I was 23 I actually wanted a

lot of people in my life and then as I

got older I was like I I I don't enjoy

having tons of people a few close people

that I I can speak to St in contact with

is fine uh in terms of the network of

Traders

um it's primarily because when I see

certain Traders I see what they're doing

and they may be doing something the

wrong way right let's say running their

business running the brand whatever and

for me one of the biggest things when I

was 22 was having a mentor and I never

had a mentor I never had a person I can

go to to be like hey where am I messing

up so when I see some of them and and if

they reach out to me and they ask me for

advice I'm always willing to give that

as long as I know you're willing to take

it and and and do something with it

right if you're just coming and just I

think you're BS you're not actually

going to take the advice serious you're

not going to take the time seriously and

do anything with it then absolutely no

right so for me it's I I think it comes

more so from that CU at 22 or even 23 I

was lost even at 25 it's certain things

I was lost like let's say starting

trades all I wish I had a person to be

like hey how do I build this ass company

right like I remember Alex Becker at 25

uh I used to watch his stuff I still do

here and there but I was like oh I wish

I could reach out to this guy and just

have a 30 minute conversation on how we

built hos right just something small and

I realized that goes a long way for some

people that are trying to build and I I

I don't see where it would hurt ever to

help someone give them 20 30 minutes and

you know and I I always believe things

get reciprocated one way or another yeah

so that that's something I've noted too

where your your position in the industry

is like you're you're very seen also not

seen at the same time it's weird uh

thing but whenever I meet a Trader uh or

your name obviously always will come up

and they've always said oh yeah yeah I

spoke to them he helped me out whether

it's literally everyone whether it's

from Kimmo to Paladin to Jesse or

whoever like they're all like oh yeah

yeah Omar helped me out with this Omar

gave me this advice and it seems like

you're supporting everyone you're you're

pulling everyone up but also you're kind

of also a bit removed uh which for me

then posed the question of do you

believe in networking in general I mean

I don't consider that networking to be

honest um like all the people the people

you've mentioned and so many other

people I genuinely think they're great

people just like putting the trading

aside I think they're great people like

Kimble I ran into me yesterday uh at the

mall great guy um uh Paladin Jesse Omar

every single person and and my thing is

I'm always open to whatever experiences

I have that you don't have and if I can

help you avoid making those mistakes

sure uh I may need something for you I

may need some help from you you know

same thing goes in that way so it gets

reciprocated in so many different ways

and I'm a big believer on just giving

and giving and giving right and and give

with not without looking for anything in

return I think when you give with

looking for something in return it just

it doesn't come off pure it's just not

the way so it's like hey you need help

with this sure I've done this this see

where I messed up this is what worked

this see what didn't work here you go

take it I don't care and I'm I'm not

really uh I'm not really too I'm not

I've never been the P person where it's

like oh I'm scared of building a comp

competitor oh my God if I give you

opinion on how I'm growing my YouTube or

how it worked I'm scared of you becoming

I don't care good luck I hope you do

well phenomenal I it doesn't bother me

to to that point I think I think it's

very true that trading the industry is

not a or space it's not like Omar or

someone else it can be and and you

usually collab and amplify each other so

it's it's it's a benefit for everyone

you know we've had in at least in Dubai

in in the last year we've had some

adventures of uh meeting different

people going out for dinners um and

networking outside of the Traders uh

space and I've noticed your approach has

always been uh you're very calculated

let's say no that's the wrong word

you're just more observant okay you're

more observant you kind of listen what

they have to say you maybe direct them

in a certain way to kind of see what

they're about why would you know why are

they saying certain things to you and

then always after we've met someone we

have a bit of a debrief of like what do

you think what do you think and you're

always analyzing of like he told me this

why do you think he felt the need to

remind me of that so bring this up or

mention this small thing uh is that

something you've always been like like

very analytical and understanding why

people move in the way they do and and

or is that just we just have a fun

conversation no I mean I'm I'm I always

like to analyze people I'm breaking

bread with or even meeting in general uh

I like to know I like to know you on a

deeper level than what you portray I

think a lot of people that portray

something they have so much more depth

behind it and when I analyze them

through conversations what they share

what they don't share like for example

if you and I have a conversation about

cars and you have to remind me of how

how much money you made last year even

if you've done well and I've met people

that do extremely well it comes from

okay why does this guy feel so insecure

or why does this person feel insecure

that they need to bring this up it also

shows you because I think the biggest

flaw humans can have is insecurity if

you get into business with someone a

relationship friendship whatever and

they're insecure that can be a big big

mess down the road right because they

need to feel that they're doing well or

showcase the world that they're doing

well it becomes a big problem so I I

just like to analyze people uh look at

things they're saying how the

conversations going and just kind of pay

attention to that always it's it's it's

not something I do actively it just

subconsciously happens and I also if I

don't have anything to add to a

conversation I'm like when I was younger

I did now I'm like I have nothing to add

I'm not going to just say things to say

things fair enough and in general

networking outside of the trader space

which you still participate in do you

feel like there's any benefit in it or

why why do you still entertain it uh I

mean I I I I enjoy meeting people right

I think especially people that are doing

very very well I I would love to sit

down and and talk for an hour or two

just to pick up things even if you and I

are talking about let's say we're

Traders we're not talking about tra

trading we're talking about horses I can

still learn a lot about you just through

conversation that I may not learn if we

only spoke about trading so I think it

gives you insights it gives you ways

people look at stuff I think it's great

but I I I've never really been the

biggest fan of networking I just had a

different approach not to say networking

is bad or you're too good to network

with people absolutely not uh I think if

you want to be taken serious you have to

have something to bring to the table and

if you are networking you can't like if

you're making I don't know half a

million dollar a year you can't go to a

guy doing a 100 million a year and say

Hey I want to network with you yeah from

a respect point of view

you have nothing to offer I'm not making

it offering or not offering game but you

have to come to you know uh any sort of

game and and level out the playing field

even if it's not what can I offer this

person that they don't have or they may

need to network with them and that's the

idea of networking with either meeting

with people at your level or higher so

you have to kind of you know be able to

balance that out and for me it's always

been hey these are things I want to

do uh I understand that if I do them

exception exceptionally well and I put

all my energy into being the best at

this whoever I want to meet eventually

they will want to meet me it can come

from an ego standpoint of view or

whatever standpoint of view for me it's

just been make my position so much more

stronger that if I want to meet with

this individual they will eventually

want to meet with me instead of me going

after them not that I won't or what not

but it's just strengthening my

position let's say 10 years from now you

you've come a long way in the last let's

say decade in your career where in

multiple vertical whether it's uh with

stock market labs and black line trading

and establishing a floor and all of

those Ventures it's within your own

personal trading and and excelling in

that and then it's also now with s SAS

with Trad Zella and all the complexities

that come with that and it's basically a

separate industry of tech and SAS and

managing scaling a team but it's applied

to the trading space so when you have

all these multi multiple vertical which

do all cross over but they are

independent skill sets and independent

projects um number one what are you most

passionate about moving forward

because that's probably going to change

and and maybe already has changed and

let's say 10 years from now when you're

in that networking environment and

you've you've met some someone you look

up to what would you want to tell them

that you're most proud about or what

would you want to lead with moving in

the in the future I mean 10 years from

now I I I don't know like I can't

mentally think 10 years ahead okay I

just I just I can't do it I think uh so

many things happen throughout the years

that it's hard to think 10 years ahead

at least for me I I can't so I don't

know about 10 years ahead uh I think the

thing I'm most passionate about would be

trade Zella uh the reason is because

everyone still thinks we are aiming to

be a trading journal which we're not

that's like phase one right uh I've said

this I've said this countless times by

mid 2025 maybe end of 2025 we are going

to be something completely different uh

even now we've added back testing we

added replay we added so many other

things where we're evolving from a

trading journal and that done by Design

why we're taking that route and what we

are trying to to become which I don't

want to share yet is something way

bigger right and this is just step one

so that's why I'm I'm passionate about

that not because oh my God it's the

trading journal no it's what we're

aiming to build and what we're trying to

become in the trading space uh that has

to be I think is is probably where I'm

the most passionate with and I think I

will be and it has nothing to do with

money or dollar value it's just even if

trade Zell went to a point where in

three years I made Z from it I I'm okay

with that because I'm so passionate into

building the idea because I think

whenever you have any sort of idea or

Vision in your head and you can make it

come to life I think that to me is like

the the most exciting thing I've seen

you speak on podcast before and like uh

the Journey of Trad Zeller and the early

days and when you had no idea you were

just interviewing other uh what's it

called Tech providers just to learn what

to ask and that kind of stuff so we

you've mentioned that before but how

about now like 2023 and now and 2024

where I just remember cuz I see it the

long hours and also the different

challenges week to week uh things get

delayed things get pushed back you hit

roadblocks one thing for me was just

crazy when you mentioned that simple

feature of night mode where everything's

white and then you can turn turn

everything black it sounds like a quick

thing but then you were like no no it

took I think two weeks in the end right

yeah it took some time you know cuz the

thing is you need designs you need to

incorporate the right way especially if

you didn't do it from day one we didn't

do it from day one so with design

updates and making the color palette

similar and then incorporating it on all

the different pages cuz we're a much

more evolved product was way long

because I thought it was going to take a

day just something very small yeah but

it was like it takes a few weeks so now

coming into this year obviously you have

like a bigger road map for 25 2025 and

Beyond but let's say by the end of the

year what do you want trade Zella to

have and mean to people Beyond just the

journaling app I mean by the end of the

year the the one of the big features is

the uh Z AI which we're working on right

now it's to give you complete feedback

we have so many data sets uh where if

you put in your information right you

upload your trades we will be able to

give you very accurate information on

areas that we think that you need to

improve on just right off the bat that's

like the one big core feature uh second

is we're trying to incorporate tons of

different educational models into it so

much education all free like you don't

have to subscribe to trade zel to get it

it's going to be free for everyone right

so even if you're like I don't want to

join trade Dela we believe in the

mission of we want to empower Traders

and we want to help Traders become

profitable so we don't want to be like

well for you to get this education you

need to pay us x amount of month or x

amount of year to get it no if you don't

want to use us it's fine you can still

use the education so the Education

portal the way we are aiming to build it

and how the a Ai and the third thing

which that's the third thing I don't

want to share just because it gives

people a Competitive Edge and I think

that that part is important and I'll

tell you off camera but yeah those those

would be three things um we added a back

testing a very basic back testing but I

think to evolve that into automated back

testing as well where you can put in

your strategy and structure it however

you want write it out and the AI model

can kind of put that into words and kind

of take those trades in a certain time

period but like I said every two we

build it comes off with one idea of how

do we help the trader that's it you know

and like I said even now we're not a

final finished product we're far from it

I I still think we're like 5% or 10% of

where we where we're trying to get to MH

when when I see trade Z forward facing

in terms of what you're putting online

and content wise is just a phenomenal

tool people can benefit and and it's uh

it's just brilliant but behind the

scenes I also see the other side which

is the Strategic businessman who's

calculating moves ahead chess moves

ahead and then just simple things of

like um obviously is doing great

business-wise Revenue wise but you're

not taking a penny out for yourself uh

yet

and it's been a while and and and then I

asked you and you were strategic you

were like okay because one day a

competitor will come I need to have a

war chest ready to make sure we are the

best and then also keep investing in

your team and the best tech to keep

growing it um so the it leads to my

question which is I think by now you've

achieved everything you wanted to

financially in terms of you have more

than you could probably spend and

therefore your generation below also um

and you've done cool things like you

just bought your family house for $4

million you're doing incredible stuff

the schools in Pakistan that you're

building so now when you've reached that

point where you're doing the cool stuff

and you've taken care of yourself are

you still financially driven or is it

now just building and doing cool things

uh I I think it stopped being

financially driven from

2020 okay yeah I I I think I stopped I

stopped I think 2020 or 2019 was the

last time around then where I've set

Financial goal I've not had a financial

end of the year goal okay since then

even now I don't have a goal of any

monetary number at all it's all hey

trade dollar we want to build a tool

that can help Traders become profitable

right you go to my content there's a

mission behind it every video that we

make for trading or any video we make at

all is for the 18-year-old Umar that is

watching or trying to get into trading

so everything has to resonate with that

so any video we make that's why you'll

see my content there's no fluff there's

no there's no go buy my course

guys 18-year-old Umar didn't like that

that's not what I want to put out to him

that's not what I want him to watch I

want to give him raw real value so

everything we have is Mission oriented

right and I'm a strong believer when you

have a strong enough mission in any

company anything you do the money shows

up yeah you don't I like you even if you

don't want it to show up it's going to

come like imagine you go and you're like

I want to be the best Trader that can

have 80% win rate let's just say with a

three R multiple whatever the case is

imagine you hit that what what will

happen

you will make money simple right but if

you go and you're like well I want to

make $10

million cool it's not just going to pop

up here yep right so I I I don't set um

I'm not really driven by money I know

money is a byproduct and that will

always drive humans to want more because

it's a competitive game but any any

goals I have or anything I set are not

around money I I also think after after

you have a set amount whatever that

number is and I think everyone has a

different number where it's like well I

H live a very comfortable life at this

number everything over that is just go

crazy like you know that's why with

trade Zell I think the superpower I have

and someone told me this is I Don't Need

a Dollar from it and I will not ever

really need a dollar from it so I can

keep pouring money back into it I can

keep letting the war chest build up as

much as possible I don't have to go

outside and raise Capital uh I don't

need you know any any Partners besides

it being family-owned and just growing

that 100% and uh I think that puts us at

a a very strong place because there's no

need for money out of it and I think

most companies like you know when you

have to pull money out and you have to

start doing and and the other things I

can pour more money if needed yes yes I

mean it's a strategic advantage to grow

um do you think when I look at the

people around me in my circle and stuff

uh there's very few people that I think

could hit 100 million 500 million a

billion uh I think you have so much time

left in your career and you're already

at a you know very very good position

that billion dollar Mark is that

something you have your eyes on as a

long-term Target or yeah and no actually

I remember now you said um I want to be

a billionaire not for the money more for

the rooms that can make me enter

something those lines it's you know when

people hear someone say they want to be

a billionaire or they want to kind of

get there I think everyone looks at as

like oh my God this guy's so full of

himself or girl whatever they care so

much about money I don't it's not it's

not about the money I think it's it's

cuz when we play business that's our

trophy that's our what we're playing the

higher degree we play

at the better we are if you want to do

it right and it is a competition at the

end of the day like when you go to

sports the top athletes are winning

rings winning championships winning

Super Bowls whatever the case is right I

think for for business having the B Mark

is that trophy so I think going after it

and building after isn't what I'm

directly doing but when I go into like

hey we are getting involved in this

project or that project this project has

the potential to be worth a billion

MH right we see it it's there it's

possible right I'm not actively waking

up and saying I want to make a billion

dollars but if you are on a on a train

track that is going to take you

potentially to a billion if done

correctly then you can you can see it so

I with two of the projects that we are

working on I I can see that happen now

will it happen I don't know uh will I

work towards building the company to be

at that value sure right but it's not

like oh my God I want a billion dollars

in cash cuz I you know what I me me but

it's just a byproduct of something you

build the more valuable something is

especially in in business the more it's

worth the the other thing that we were

kind of mentioning off camera was the

idea of what trading will hold in in

someone's life and right now for me I'm

just as passionate as I was in the

beginning and I think it's because I'm

still um uh hopeful that I can achieve a

lot more as in I still see a lot more

upside in my career uh and I'm also

still learning a lot and and refining

and find you know doing the Reps so for

me it's still I feel like in that

Curative creative space whereas now

you're a little bit further so you've

also now achieved the big Milestones

financially so that kind of box or that

desire is kind of ticked off it seems

like you're in a very stable place where

you have your models you have your

systems and you're not trying to change

it too much so that hope of like how

much better can I get is also ticked off

so when you reach that stage of you've

been doing it for years at a stable

level and you've hit you've TI these

boxes do you then also then get kind of

it's just repetitive and and and

monotonous and therefore you want to

exit one day or is it something that's

always going to be a piece of your life

and being active in the markets uh I I

have phases of being active in the

market so I I think that's why I get

through with it uh like I'll have two

months where I'm a day trader and then

I'll have two months where I don't even

look at what's going on in the market

right uh but I think with me it's

um I'm I'm design I've always been very

lazy I'm still very lazy I know it

sounds very it sounds weird cuz like how

are you lazy I know I'm very lazy uh

where in trading I'm like okay well this

is

working it's

refined how do I make more by doing the

least amount of work okay two ways find

these similar setups that I'm good at

put in more risk if I can find that

trade the least amount of days and I can

make more money cool I I'm not a fan fan

of doing so much active work I've

learned over the years activity doesn't

always engage in

productivity right and we as humans are

wired to think more activity means

higher productivity levels where I've

learned and I've seen it happen

firstand proper activity in the proper

direction and proper things will and

always have create more productivity MH

right so it's finding those areas is

that you can go okay well I have this

table where can I win on the 80% table

where can I take 80% of this I don't

care about the other 20% right now let

me take the majority of it that's a

quick win so I I naturally look for okay

immediately quick wins okay where's the

quick win cool where do I pour money

into driving this quick win now I can go

into the 20% but the remaining 20% will

require 89% of effort to achieve that

that's when you go to like perfectionist

level but if I can take that 80% of

something something and put in that

minimal effort not that I'm only putting

minimal effort then imagine what I can

do if I do that over and over and over

again so in trading it's it just for me

it comes comes down to that look at the

similar setups that I'm comfortable with

uh obviously you know go back back to

strategies go back look at what's

happening in the market get comfortable

put in reps get familiar over and over

again those things have to be done but

in terms of when I'm in front of a in

front of a screen if I achieve something

in an hour or two I'm done I'm not going

to sit here for another 5 hours trying

to make more gotten my 80% okay and that

to me I think also mentally allows me to

be more at ease as a Trader than for me

to be like oh I've traded an hour and I

made 35 Grand imagine another hour like

no it's okay I'll walk away you to walk

yeah I'll walk away I'm good we we

mentioned the beginning of the podcast

kind of what you've done for the last 3

four years in your end of year profits

and I forgot to get the question out of

it um so do you first of all do you

always start off with the same amount or

do you just use the profits of the year

before or has each year the starting

balance grow grown no I've always

started with uh roughly about 200 Grand

actually very small relative to your

profit at the end yes and I'll tell you

why cuz so I trade options very heavily

right so if I have my account goes to a

million or $2

million it's it it's very hard for me to

trade option contracts with that much

capital and find liquidity I can't get

in and out as quickly right now if I was

trading equities or if I'm trading

Futures sure you know more money more

profits but in

options I haven't went more than 1,000

or 1,200 contracts which is a lot of

contracts if you ask anyone that trades

options a, or 1,200 contracts on a

position is a lot right and most of the

time that position size equates to 2 to

500 Grand depending on date of

expiration depending on you know uh what

what your trading the cost of the

contract so 2 to 500 Grand is like my

super max position size I'm not I'm not

going above that I don't think in the

past few years I've went above that on

options right and even when I hit 500k

that's when I'm on a hot treek I'm

comfortable uh the Market's in movement

I'm putting out size and putting out

some good trades I'll go to that number

but typically some days it's like 60

Grand 80 grand 70 grand in in you know

position size and with options you're

able to generate 30 40% so if I am going

into a position with 100 Grand and I

don't have you know liquidity problems I

don't have problems getting filled entry

exit all that stuff and I can walk away

making 20% I'm good I I don't need to

scale heavier than that so that's when

when people go well okay well if you did

this much why aren't you starting next

year and I'm like I wish I could I see

it's not that I don't want to I wish I

could I wish I could go into an option

contract tomorrow and put in $6

million and get filled without a problem

I can't that that's just the nature of

options there's not that much open

interest not much liquidity available

so that's why my starting account

balance is to a certain degree that I'm

like okay well I'm not going to go more

than this even when my account goes to

let say a million or 800 Grand or 1

Point whatever I take it out because

it's just Capital sitting being unused I

think there's a cool lesson in there too

that you're not just growing an account

infinitely endlessly for no like you

also take it out every year and you have

a cut off date so the reason I I asked

all of that was to kind of understand

that you've had the ups and downs you

start off at as similar points one year

is huge and next year is still big but

it's not not as um as crazy as the year

before so you've had these es and flows

in your trading Journey over the last

few years and you've also matured as a

lot of as a person going through your

20s which we've covered and I want to

kind of end the podcast on what have you

learned each year in in a trading sense

I mean like at the end of 2020 this is

my biggest lesson 21 this was my biggest

lesson and so forth because when I look

at myself I definitely have my one major

lesson of the year if I could condense

it down do you have something equivalent

for last year I still don't have a

lesson I remember someone asked me uh I

think I think uh Nan asked me uh a

couple of days what was your big I was

like honestly I don't know I haven't

processed it yet cuz so much happened

from like December till you know January

I didn't I didn't process it but uh

there are typical lessons um I usually

write down what what it is like I I do

like a recap for myself on like the

biggest things and whatnot uh I just

learned that you know ultimately the

market is always right in the past few

years as much as you try to justify that

the market is overbought oversold

whatever you want to you know put a bias

on the market will do what it wants to

do right and I've seen that happen with

me countless times I'm like well this

Market is way too overbought or this

particular stock is way way too

overbought you know it has to go down

okay it has to go down but now I have to

time it you know I have to find the

proper entry there's so many other

criterias that go along with it so it's

like okay well unless those things align

and make sense whatever the market is

doing is right cuz that's how the market

is going to function so I think taking

that away

and then the big the second biggest

thing is um you know just because you

had a a big year or big month last month

or last year does not mean you are going

to or you are or the market is going to

lie you to have a big year again right

it's it's like uh in one of Drake's song

he goes do that again right so it's

like a mentality that I follow with

trading and everything again so it's

like that's where when you do get

compliments you do get hides you do get

everything it's like well do it again do

it again okay you had Good Year great

doesn't mean you're going to have

another seven figure year doesn't even

mean you're going to have a profitable

year you had a great week cool reset

again that's trading and then when you

apply that concept to your personal life

where you have a bad day and at the end

of the day you hit reset okay I had a

bad day move on it allows you to move

with a cleaner slate and that works in

during bad days and it also benefits you

during good days because when you have a

good day and you get ahead of yourself

it's very easy to get comfortable and

complacent but if you reset like okay

well for me to achieve what I had

yesterday they have to work twice as

hard it keeps you going and keeps things

moving that lesson that you've just

mentioned was actually my when I have my

list was my lesson from 2 years ago it

was the idea of that I was trying to

control the uncontrollable which is the

market the market is always right so

rather than trying to control that let

me control what are my controllables and

then when I started to understand these

are the things in my control my win rate

my risk reward and XYZ focus on that and

and uh not on the market so that's cool

uh but bro thank you very much I think

this was a fun one and I think let's go

off for lunch and talk thank you app man

thank you