Understanding neurodiversity and supporting consumers in a technologically advancing world

Summary

In this informative webcast, Charlene, Head of People at the Chartered Banker Institute, hosts Andrew Whitehouse, a neurodiversity specialist, to discuss the challenges and strategies for supporting neurodiverse individuals in a technologically advancing world. Andrew, who has personal experience as a parent of neurodivergent children and having severe ADHD himself, emphasizes the importance of clear, explicit communication, visual aids, and understanding sensory sensitivities. He shares insights on how banks can better serve neurodiverse customers through tailored digital experiences and staff training, highlighting the need for empathy and practical adjustments to create an inclusive environment.

Takeaways

• 🌟 Neurodiversity is a significant aspect of human diversity, with approximately 15-20% of the world's population living with a neurodiverse condition like Autism or ADHD.
• 💻 The digital divide impacts up to 20% of consumers who struggle with existing online banking solutions, highlighting the need for inclusive digital services.
• 🏦 Financial institutions are increasingly being chosen based on the quality of their digital banking experience, emphasizing the importance of accessible technology.
• 🗣️ Clear and explicit communication is crucial for neurodivergent individuals, who often prefer visual communication and struggle with implicit or overly complex instructions.
• 👥 Recognizing and accommodating single attention span in neurodivergent individuals can lead to better interactions and service in customer-facing roles.
• 🔍 Banks and other businesses should consider sensory factors in their environments, as certain sounds, colors, and smells can be distracting or uncomfortable for neurodivergent customers.
• 🛠️ Routine and predictability are important for neurodivergent individuals, and changes to routines can cause significant stress and anxiety.
• 🤝 Employers and service providers can benefit from creating 'go-to' person systems to provide consistent points of contact for neurodivergent individuals.
• 🤖 The use of AI and chatbots in banking needs improvement to ensure they can provide clear, helpful responses and not exacerbate anxiety or confusion.
• 🌐 Online banking platforms should be tested for ease of use and clarity, especially from the perspective of neurodivergent users who may have unique challenges with digital interfaces.
• 📚 Continuous learning and adaptation are key for organizations to better serve neurodivergent customers, including staying updated on appropriate terminology and understanding the community's needs.

Q & A

What is the estimated percentage of the world's population living with a neurodiverse condition according to the National Library of Medicine?

Approximately 15 to 20% of the world's population lives with some form of a neurodiverse condition.

What challenges do individuals with neurodiverse conditions face in the context of online banking solutions?

Up to 20% of consumers have been unable to fully use existing online banking solutions due to digital limitations, which can leave some members feeling forgotten and marginalized.

Who is Andrew Whitehouse and what is his expertise?

Andrew Whitehouse is a neurological diversity specialist who has spoken at TEDx events and published books on neurodiversity. He provides interventions for professionals, parents, and young people with Autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and other related conditions.

What is the Extreme Male Brain theory and how is it relevant to neurodiverse individuals?

The Extreme Male Brain theory, developed by Professor Simon Baron Cohen, suggests that autistic and ADHD individuals have 'male brains,' which are systematic and excel in explicit communication, preferring visual communication and single attention focus.

Why is explicit communication important when interacting with neurodiverse individuals?

Explicit communication is important because neurodiverse individuals, such as those with autism or ADHD, need to be told exactly what is wanted or needed without implicitness. They often prefer visual communication and have difficulty with divided attention.

How can financial institutions improve their support for neurodiverse customers?

Financial institutions can improve support by offering clear, explicit communication, avoiding unnecessary small talk, and providing visual aids and instructions. They should also be mindful of sensory issues and strive to create a calm environment.

What impact can anxiety have on neurodiverse individuals when interacting with banking services?

Anxiety can lead to perceived aggression or rudeness in neurodiverse individuals. It is important for banking staff to recognize and address anxiety, possibly by providing a calming environment or a go-to person for support.

Why is routine important for autistic individuals and how can changes in routine affect them?

Routine is important for autistic individuals because they have an insistence on sameness and inflexible thinking. Changes in routine can cause depression, anxiety, and uncertainty, making it difficult for them to adapt.

What are some strategies that can be implemented in a bank to support neurodiverse customers?

Strategies include providing clear visual labeling, breaking down tasks into smaller sessions, having go-to staff members who are adept at handling diverse needs, and ensuring the environment is calm and free from distractions.

How can banks improve their digital assistants to better serve neurodiverse customers?

Banks can improve their digital assistants by ensuring they provide clear, focused, and direct responses to customer inquiries. The AI should be able to understand and respond appropriately to specific questions without generalizing or providing irrelevant information.

What is the significance of sensory considerations in a banking environment for neurodiverse individuals?

Sensory considerations are significant because neurodiverse individuals, especially those with autism, can be highly sensitive to background sounds, colors, and smells. A calm and sensory-friendly environment can greatly improve their experience.

Can you provide an example of how a bank has successfully implemented strategies to support neurodiverse consumers?

One example is a chain of coffee shops that implemented clear visual labeling without using written words, which improved productivity. Another example is a company that provided driving tests, breaking down the test into smaller sessions to accommodate ADHD individuals.

How can individuals without neurodiverse experiences become better allies and advocates for neurodiversity?

Individuals can become better allies by reading the signs and adjusting their behavior accordingly. They should respect the preferences and communication styles of neurodiverse individuals and seek to understand their needs.

What is the correct terminology when referring to individuals with neurodiverse conditions?

The correct terminology is to refer to individuals as 'neurodivergent' or 'autistic people' rather than 'people with autism'. It's important to avoid terms like 'sufferers' or 'symptoms' and instead focus on person-first language.

Outlines

00:00

🎤 Introduction to Neurodiversity Webcast

Charlene, head of people at the Chartered Banker Institute, introduces a webcast focused on understanding neurodiversity and supporting consumers in a technologically advancing world. The event is being recorded for later viewing on their website and YouTube channel. Charlene invites questions for guest speaker Andrew Whitehouse, a neurodiversity specialist who has spoken at TEDx and published books on the topic. Andrew's work includes interventions for professionals, parents, and young people with conditions like Autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and more. He emphasizes his practical experience over academic research and mentions his personal connection to neurodiversity as a parent and someone with severe ADHD.

05:04

🗣️ Communication Strategies for Neurodiversity

Andrew discusses the importance of explicit communication for neurodiverse individuals, referencing Professor Simon Baron Cohen's Extreme Male Brain Theory, which suggests that autistic and ADHD brains function systematically. He explains that such individuals prefer clear, direct communication and visual cues rather than implicit or verbal communication. Andrew advises against engaging in small talk and emphasizes the need for concise instructions. He also touches on the challenges neurodiverse individuals face with single attention and the importance of avoiding unnecessary distractions during communication.

10:05

🏦 Supporting Anxious Customers in Banking

Andrew addresses the challenges faced by neurodiverse individuals when visiting banks, often due to anxiety stemming from issues such as missing money. He suggests that banks should have 'go-to' people who are adept at handling anxious customers, potentially by taking them aside and offering a calming environment to discuss their problems. Andrew also discusses the impact of perceived aggression or rudeness, which can be a result of anxiety, and the importance of recognizing and addressing the root cause of a customer's distress.

15:07

🧩 Routine and Social Challenges for Neurodiverse Individuals

The discussion moves to the difficulties neurodiverse individuals face with social situations, rigid thinking, and changes in routine. Andrew highlights the importance of clear procedures and communication to help these individuals navigate banks and other services. He also talks about sensory differences, which can be exacerbated by background sounds or certain environments, and the need for calm, distraction-free spaces to support neurodiverse customers and staff.

20:07

🌈 Creating Autism-Friendly Environments

Andrew delves into the sensory sensitivities of autistic individuals, discussing the impact of colors, sounds, and smells in an environment. He advocates for the use of pastel colors and the reduction of distracting noises and strong scents. The conversation also covers the importance of understanding that neurodiverse individuals may struggle with social interactions and the need for patience and clear, direct communication in such situations.

25:08

🔊 ADHD and Its Impact on Customer Behavior

The presentation shifts focus to ADHD, with Andrew explaining the different types and the commonality of impulsivity among them. He uses personal anecdotes to illustrate the challenges ADHD individuals face in banks, such as difficulty waiting in queues or dealing with unexpected issues. Andrew emphasizes the importance of bank staff being able to recognize and respond appropriately to signs of anxiety or agitation in customers.

30:08

🤝 Adapting Communication for Positive Interactions

Andrew stresses the importance of adapting communication styles to better support neurodiverse individuals, both as customers and colleagues. He suggests using social media for updates and preparing for changes in routine, recognizing anxiety, and modifying communication approaches. Andrew also highlights the need to avoid blame and instead focus on understanding and accommodating the unique needs of neurodiverse individuals.

35:09

🛡️ The Importance of Responding Over Reacting

In this segment, Andrew discusses the difference between reacting and responding, particularly in customer service interactions. He shares his experience with a digital assistant named Sandy that failed to provide helpful responses to his banking inquiries. Andrew suggests that banks should focus on improving their online communication tools to better serve neurodiverse customers and ensure that they are genuinely responsive to individual needs.

40:09

🏆 Success Stories in Neurodiversity Support

Andrew shares examples of organizations that have successfully implemented strategies to support neurodiverse consumers. He mentions a coffee shop chain that improved productivity by introducing clear visual labeling and a company that provided driving tests in shorter sessions to accommodate ADHD individuals. These examples highlight the positive impact of understanding and accommodating neurodiversity in the workplace.

45:10

🤔 Becoming Allies for Neurodiversity

The conversation turns to how individuals without neurodiverse experiences can support neurodiversity. Andrew encourages people to read signs, observe behavior, and adjust their communication styles accordingly. He emphasizes the importance of treating everyone with respect and understanding, regardless of their neurodiversity status.

50:10

📚 Navigating Terminology in Neurodiversity Discussions

Andrew addresses concerns about using the correct terminology when discussing neurodiversity. He provides guidance on the appropriate language, such as using 'autistic people' instead of 'people with Autism' and avoiding terms like 'suffering from' or 'symptoms.' He also recommends the National Autistic Society's website for a list of acceptable and unacceptable terms.

Keywords

💡Neurodiversity

Neurodiversity refers to the natural variation in the human brain regarding sociability, learning, attention, mood, and other mental functions. In the context of the video, it is the focus of the discussion on how to support individuals with neurodiverse conditions in a technologically advancing world. The script mentions that approximately 15 to 20 percent of the world's population lives with some form of a neurodiverse condition, emphasizing the importance of understanding and accommodating these differences.

💡Online banking solutions

Online banking solutions encompass the digital services provided by banks to enable customers to conduct financial transactions over the internet. The video script highlights the challenges faced by up to 20 percent of consumers who have been unable to fully use these solutions, indicating a need for more inclusive digital banking experiences.

💡Digital self-service options

Digital self-service options are tools and platforms that allow customers to independently manage their financial needs without human intervention. The script points out the increasing demand for such options and how they influence consumers' choice of financial institution partners, underscoring the significance of accessible and user-friendly digital services.

💡Neurological diversity specialist

A neurological diversity specialist is a professional who has expertise in understanding and supporting individuals with neurodiverse conditions. Andrew Whitehouse, the guest speaker in the video, is introduced as such a specialist, having taken to the TEDx stage and published books on neurodiversity, and providing interventions for professionals, parents, and young people with Autism, ADHD, dyslexia, and other related conditions.

💡Extreme male brain theory

The Extreme male brain theory, developed by Professor Simon Baron Cohen, suggests that there are two types of brain systems: the 'male brain' characterized by attention to detail and systematization (now referred to as the explicit brain), and the 'female brain' characterized by empathizing and communication (now called the empathic brain). In the script, this theory is used to explain the communication needs of individuals with autism and ADHD, who are said to have 'male brains' and require explicit communication.

💡Explicit communication

Explicit communication is a direct and clear way of conveying information, without relying on implicit or non-verbal cues. The video emphasizes the importance of this communication style for neurodivergent individuals, who may struggle with implicit communication or become overwhelmed by unnecessary details. The script provides examples of how to apply explicit communication in banking environments to cater to these needs.

💡Autism

Autism, or Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD), is a neurodevelopmental condition characterized by challenges with social skills, repetitive behaviors, speech and nonverbal communication. In the video, Andrew Whitehouse discusses his personal and professional experiences with autism, including his work with schools, colleges, and corporate settings to support autistic individuals.

💡ADHD

ADHD, or Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, is a neurodevelopmental disorder affecting attention, impulse control, and activity levels. The script discusses ADHD in the context of the challenges it presents in banking environments, such as difficulty waiting in queues or understanding complex instructions, and the need for clear, concise communication.

💡Chatbots

Chatbots are computer programs designed to simulate conversation with human users, often used in customer service. The video script includes a discussion on the limitations of chatbots in providing effective support for individuals with neurodiverse conditions, highlighting the need for more personalized and nuanced communication in banking services.

💡Sensory differences

Sensory differences refer to the varied ways individuals perceive and process sensory information, which can be particularly pronounced in neurodivergent individuals. The script mentions the importance of considering sensory differences when designing banking environments, such as minimizing background noise and considering color coding to reduce anxiety.

💡Social stories

Social stories are a technique used to help individuals with autism understand social situations and expected behaviors. In the script, Andrew Whitehouse suggests using social stories to explain changes in routines, such as alterations in banking procedures, to help neurodivergent customers adapt more easily.

Highlights

Approximately 15 to 20% of the world's population lives with a neurodiverse condition.

20% of consumers have been unable to fully use existing online banking solutions due to digital limitations.

Digital self-service options are increasingly important for choosing financial institution partners.

Andrew Whitehouse, a neurodiversity specialist, has experience with autism, ADHD, and other related conditions.

Neurodiverse individuals require explicit communication and prefer visual communication over verbal.

Single attention focus is a characteristic of neurodiverse individuals, making multitasking challenging.

Clear and concise communication is essential when interacting with neurodiverse individuals.

Avoid unnecessary pleasantries that can detract from the main message in communication.

Autistic and ADHD individuals often have difficulties with social situations and understanding social cues.

Anxiety can manifest as perceived aggression or rudeness in neurodiverse individuals.

Banks should have clear procedures and 'go-to' people to support anxious or struggling customers.

Neurodiverse individuals have an insistence on sameness and find changes in routines challenging.

Sensory differences, such as background noise or strong smells, can be distracting for neurodiverse individuals.

Explicit communication is crucial, telling people what to do rather than what not to do.

ADHD is characterized by inattention, impulsivity, and hyperactivity.

Strategies like social stories can help communicate changes in routine to neurodiverse individuals.

AI chatbots in banks need to be more focused and capable of understanding specific customer inquiries.

Individuals can become better allies by observing and responding to the needs of neurodiverse people.

Use of appropriate terminology is essential when discussing neurodiversity; refer to the National Autistic Society for guidance.

Transcripts

hello everyone and welcome to today's

webcast

um understanding neurodiversity and

supporting consumers in a

technologically advancing world my

name's Charlene and I'm head of um

people at the chartered Banker Institute

and I'm going to be your chair for

today's event so please note that we're

we're recording today's webcast and it

will be available to watch On Demand on

our website and our YouTube channel

afterwards if you've got any questions

at all throughout the session that you

would like to ask Andrew and please use

the Q a box on your screen

so I'll just start off with a bit of

background on our topic today

um according to the National Library of

Medicine approximately 15 to 20 of the

world's population lives with some form

of a neurodiverse condition

while the Work World continues to move

online it started up to 20 of consumers

have been unable to fully use existing

online banking Solutions

such digital limitations can leave some

members feeling forgotten and

marginalized and with the need for a

digital self-service options on the rise

many consumers are selecting financial

institution Partners based on the

digital banking experience that they

offer

so today we are pleased to welcome our

guest speaker Andrew Whitehouse

thank you for being with us today

Andrew's a neurological diversity

specialist he's he's taken to the tedx

stage and has published books on

neurodiversity he also provides

interventions for Professionals for

parents young people with Autism ADHD

dyslexia and other related conditions

so it's our pleasure to to welcome

Andrew and we look forward to hearing

your presentation today thank you very

very much Charlene hello everyone it's a

pleasure to be with you I'm just going

to bring up um my presentation it's it

looks a lot but um it's it's not in in

as much as

um

uh in as much as I I just need the

slides to remember where I am so um if

you want to be my friend I used to be

all over social media and now I only do

Instagram it's Andrew wsen so please do

feel free to join me on Instagram I'm

rubbish at it

um I do do a range of I provide a range

of services uh I am a specialist in

neurological disorders and ADHD autism

pathological demand avoidance syndrome

dyslexia dyspraxia dysch computer

um fetal alcohol Spectrum Disorder so I

really do look at a lot of things and I

work in schools colleges uh corporate

settings

the care sector so I really do get get

around a lot

um I'm very much a boots on the ground

person so from a qualification point of

view I should be

um I should be in a university somewhere

researching but that's not my way I'm

very very much a practitioner and

therefore a lot of the work that we're

looking at today is going to be based in

experience and practice and things that

I've seen and done so hopefully you'll

find that interesting not only am I a

specialist in this I'm also a parent of

neurodivergent children three of my

children are on the Spectrum and I'm

also diagnosed with severe ADHD myself

which is kind of interesting I'll have a

few words to say about that so I'm well

and truly immersed in the whole thing

so we've only got 40 minutes I've got I

could keep you here all day and night

but I'm not allowed to so we're really

going to crack in straight away uh what

I'm going to be talking about is

I'm going to be talking about

uh neurodiver good neurodiverse practice

with not just our customers but also the

people we work with so

um we're going to talk a lot about that

and then at the end we're going to do a

little bit just about

um chat Bots which should be fun so

let's look at communication

um there is quite an old Theory now but

I use it a lot called Extreme male brain

theory that was brought about in the

research of Professor Simon Baron Cohen

from the University of Cambridge who

incidentally is Sasha Bowen Cohen's

uncle and isn't funny

um but he's a specialist in autism and

he developed a theory called Extreme

male brain Theory that is to say that he

is saying there are two types of brain

this is not to do with gender or

sexuality at all in fact uh what what he

called male brain and what um

and female brain we now we now call

explicit and empathic brain but I'm

going to use the old terminology just

because it's easier to understand but

what Simon Baron Cohen has said is that

all autistic and ADHD people are male

brains so this is going to be really

important for what we're looking at

today so what those what that uh

systematic brain or what that autistic

ADHD net brain needs is explicit

communication they need to be told

exactly what what we need to be told

exactly what you want we don't do

implicit we prefer visual communication

we don't like to talk and listen and we

have single attention as opposed to

divided attention when we focus on one

thing so it's really important to know

that I mean straight away this has a

massive impact on

you know how we treat our colleagues how

we treat our clients you know how

um you know we don't want to talk about

the weather we you know if you can show

something to somebody rather than talk

about it that would be really helpful

and don't try and communicate when that

person is working on something if you've

got someone sitting there working on

something highly unlikely they will talk

back to you or process what you're

saying so we really have to sort of get

a system up and would you mind stopping

thank you but let me tell you about it

when we're communicating with people we

have to check the clarity and sense and

I'm going to talk a little bit about

this when we get to

to the AI side of things in the chat box

but certainly you know uh we we don't we

don't want that verbal communication

when you're emailing a colleague or if

you're talking to a customer you know I

try to avoid saying things like I like

your scarf or you know or when you're

emailing them how are the children or

things like that these unnecessary

Thrills are going to just detract and

when we apply that to the single

attention you can see you know

um

you can see that focusing on one thing

I'm focusing on going into the bank I

don't want to talk about how pretty my

scarf is or how shiny my shoes are or

what have you or you know how cute my

children are you know these are

unnecessary feels and we need to be

really really focused so when you've got

people coming into the bank you know you

probably won't know you probably won't

know that these that somebody's autistic

but you you know if you've been working

with someone a little while you you

probably will or you'll certainly find

out about communicating in different

ways and so we're looking for clarity

we're looking for clarity we're looking

for that

um

you know I like phrases like Malcolm can

you send me that document please well

Malcolm send me that document please we

don't have to be impolite and we

certainly don't want to overuse words do

you remember what I said about visuals

being more powerful easier to process so

you know not using too many words there

is a saying in autism after 20 words you

just said I heard the first three or I

could sometimes hear a few words at the

beginning the rest became a blur so

short burst instructions you know at the

counter in the bank sign here please

try not to rephrase things if you

rephrase something then

what tends to happen is that your client

or your colleague is going to think that

you're asking them to do something else

so Mal can sit down Malcolm is not sat

down Malcolm put your bottle on the

chair as a separate instruction so again

using visuals uh pictures images

you know if you've got a day where you

have a timetable that's absolutely

brilliant

if you have you know even if you even if

something like in the canteen if you're

in the canteen uh you know a a draw

which says Cutlery and a picture of some

Cutlery is really really helpful because

that's the sort of thing and most

neurodivergent people will appreciate

you know those kinds of instructions but

then the communications coming back to

us

say what you see

um it's it's it is I'm very much an

Autism Advocate on this and I am very

much

the person that really feels that you

know when you're working in my field

with autistic people with ADHD people

that you teach them things like you know

what is not appropriate to say and to

people but not every not everybody

shares that opinion with me and you know

um

you may find yourself in a situation

where a customer comes in and says

something inappropriate

you have to stop and think about that

and stop and think and say

is this something is this something that

I need to deal with or is this just a

person communicating in the way that

they communicate best and it's very much

a case of picking your balance because

it's highly unlikely to be personal and

so you know it really is uh something

something to um

to consider now when you go into a bank

I thought about this a lot when you go

into a Banks particularly in the 21st

century 2023

um

we usually go into the bank because

there's something wrong

now I've used chat Bots a couple of days

ago I had a little Clovis and chatbots

and they didn't really solve my problems

you know it can often be easy to get

through to banks on the telephone so

sometimes you need to just go in and

talk about it but as I say it's usually

when something's wrong so you know the

first first thing that you're going to

get is anxiety

and from anxiety can come of the

perceived aggression or perceived

rudeness you know and so

um you know I have had a situation which

I may touch on a little bit later in a

bank where mind your divergency caused

me extreme problems in a bank very

extreme problems

and

um you know and where I was perceived as

lunar aggressive but actually it is

anxiety

now at the bank end you know we we need

to be focusing on how how do we support

people who come in who are anxious how

do we support people have we got go-to

people

have you got a person that is absolutely

brilliant with people have you got that

person if somebody comes in shouting or

you know if somebody comes in in that

way have you got the person that's

capable to take them one to side and

saying that let's make a cup of tea and

let's talk about this and I want to fix

this for you

um we see a lot of signs which I 100

agree with in all sort of manner places

our staff will not tolerate this that

the other and I completely agree with

that but we also have to remember that

anxiety can you know the root of the

problem is often anxiety

and so

um with autism we're looking at

communication difficulties social

emotional understanding rigid thinking

widget thinking is that everything needs

to be the same

and those sensory differences which I'm

gonna really run through with you today

social situations are often difficult

for an autistic person whereas everybody

else it seems knows how to do things so

we tend to have expectations now again

you're not likely to know that this is

an autistic person

um

coming through your door walking up to

you to talk to you and you're highly

unlikely to know that but what you are

likely to know is that they're

struggling

and when you find that person struggling

don't try and enforce an issue try just

step back okay this person just wants to

do their business and leave yeah that's

fine I mean sometimes we become

embarrassed and we feel like oh okay you

know uh I'll I'll make a little joke

well you know it's just not going to

help we really about getting down to

business which is kind of the opposite

to what we're sort of told in life about

communicating with people but we really

we really need to to do this to step

away

trying to understand how to behave can

be really difficult for autistic people

and so

you know try to make that in the bank

situation as Swift as possible possible

on the phone as Swift as possible how

are you this lovely day you know uh can

I just transfer this money to that I can

um yeah sure are you enjoying the

sunshine that that person's just made it

clear to you that they don't wanna they

don't want to have that conversation you

know and some will some won't

come to win loss and when Lawson's a um

autistic adult and

um he says other people are often my

biggest problem and I think when we come

to autism

other people can be it isn't it is it is

essentially a social condition and it is

a condition there's a saying you know uh

autistic people just don't want to be

your friend that's not 100 sure but it's

not it's not far off and finding these

social skills difficult

um

you know uh can be absolutely bewildered

and exhausting and then you've learned

something and then the context may

change so uh I've been into the bank

three times and I know how to operate in

this bank but in actual fact what I've

got a problem with now is I'm dealing

with a different person

or they painted the place

well they've changed the opening times

and what we've learned is then not

applicable to what we're having to do so

this can be very very difficult

I'm going to move on from that one

um

do you generalize do you over generalize

um so you know

um I I was looking on online at I looked

at one particular chain of Banks and I

tried to sort of you know uh get an idea

of where they were situated and you know

although we call the High Street bench

they're not always on the High Street

for example

straight away

you know that's a massive generalization

it's it's not going to work you know

have you got clear procedures in place

for people with clear responses looking

at the AI again I'm not convinced by the

bank that I looked at

autistic people have an insistence on

sameness and an inflexible appearance to

routines this is a problem as well

because

um well this can be a problem because

things really really do change we all

for many of the old adage of you know

the supermarkets always moving stuff

about but yeah you know

um again have we a facility that I need

to speak to Tim because Tim is the

banker I always work with can we do that

go-to people we talked about that that

would really seriously help his routines

wouldn't it

um uh this is uh

uh absolutely huge autism and routine is

absolutely huge and and you know it can

be the smallest thing

yeah can make things really really

difficult they may have planned in their

mind I'm going to about I'm going to

speak with Tim Tim's going to sort it

out because Tim always sorts it out for

me I've arrived at about no Tim's not

here today he's been moved to I've lost

about

and so um

you know this can be very difficult and

then we looked at systems and we said

well if we've got those systems yeah if

we've got those systems then we want to

make our neurodivergent indeed all of

our clients aware that those systems are

in place yes you can come in uh well

maybe you can't come here on Wednesday

and speak to Tim but Tim will be in on

Thursday or can you wait till next week

he's on a holiday

so this routine yeah uh honestly you

know it's such a big deal

depression anxiety uncertainty go along

with breaks in these routines and the

lack of go along with absolutely being

able to have these

um

seed the these are just moving past that

last one

um the these routines and then we have a

sensory situation

background sounds now I've worked in

venue in places where the background

sounds are the big deal you know outside

um outside your bank is there is there

road Works going on yeah when you are on

on the telephone telephone banking you

know again the bank I bank with

has telephone banking and you know we're

often given the disclaimer

um uh apologize if there's any noise in

the background uh I'm working from home

today which is fine you know home is a

difficult place to work from but you

know uh these sounds for an autistic

person can be massively distracting not

only massively distracting but

um

but it can be physically difficult for

an autistic person not only that when we

looked at it we talked about the

beginning which was single attention

only being able to concentrate on one

thing

then that one thing

yeah

might not be the thing you want to

concentrate on you might be wanting to

concentrate on the banking but actually

you're

distracted and focusing on the Busker

outside

I want to talk about colors

um autism friendly safe space we have

um we have banks that are color-coded

so

for example and I'm not picking on

anyone in particular I just happen to

sort of know this you know I would never

have my banking colors as red

because actually

um in autism you know we we have lots of

color coding systems for anxiety red is

always bad

and when we generalize in autism we will

see red things as as bad

you know so there are wristbands that

are red on one side green on the other

and the autistic people can flip them

over to red when they're anxious or in

crisis we have systems called zones of

Regulation where the red zone is the bad

Zone you know and and so colors you know

can be a massive massive big deal

um

so we want a calm space we want a really

calm space we want pastel colors I know

you can't do that but you know it's

important to know uh what your hot spots

are is it a calm environment just a room

smell do you smell

um if you you know I don't mean uh bo

but it might be I suppose but what I am

talking about is things like perfume and

aftershave and things like that again

can be very distracting you know so the

autistic friendly

um

lack of spout if you like you know can

also be very very distracting and this

is also with your colleagues it's also

with the people you work with and you

know are you distracting that person are

you making it difficult for them are you

making it

um hard to function in that environment

environment

you know and so therefore you know we

have other things to ask about those

sensory issues uh are you

know is your environment is it noisy

well it should be I mean I'm I'm you

know I actually my bedroom can you

believe who knew we were going to start

working for my bedrooms but I am and um

and and this should be running on silent

but when I start and I close my eyes and

I listen

I can hear the pet tortoise scraping

about his cage he's gonna want that in

there in a little while

I can hear traffic on the road I can

hear some uh

I think it's a television humming Etc

what can you hear can you do

a sensory audit and can any of those

noises be stopped

because you know are you disturbing your

clients are you disturbing each other

are you disturbing each other with

noises

um

so we're talking about that divided

attention it's very very difficult for

autistic people single attention one

thing which means inability to separate

the senses you know so um

you see somebody having trouble with the

cash machine

and they're focusing on the cash machine

kind of help you and ignore you

better to say excuse me

may I speak

stop them yeah and if they won't stop

let them carry on wait until there's a

suitable Gap and then speak can I help

you with this piece of equipment yeah

um we don't

um

we also when we talk about explicit

communication which was the first slide

we looked at

um explicit communication is basically

telling people what to do not what not

to do

now um

again I had a Wanderer now Lincoln

looking for this and I didn't find

anything this is brownie points for

every bank I found in Lincoln

you know there were no signs that said

don't do this don't do that don't do

this it was great yeah

um there were lots of signs that said

please take an envelope please use this

please you know please please help

yourself to a pen all this kind of stuff

there's loads and loads of that which

was great because actually in autism if

we say don't do something that means you

don't know what to do I'll give you an

example

uh this is my coffee cup

down there means I don't know

where's my coffee cup so tell me what to

do not want not to do

right moving on to my favorite which is

ADHD Attention Deficit Hyperactive

impulsive disorder I've added impulsive

and this is because there are three

kinds of ADHD there's the combined type

which is the type that I have in

attention hyperactivity impulsivity

and then there's add in attention

impulsivity and then there's hyperactive

impulsive

all three of these have the word

impulsive in them

but the word impulsive is not in

ADHD is it so uh actually we really need

to sort of put that in so I do put that

in to help you because it's impulsive

behaviors that cause difficulties no

hyperactivity High productivity is

something that happens to us

often when we are stressed whether we be

ADHD autistic whatever

hyperactivity is something when we are

stressed and we've already I personally

believe that when we go into a bank it's

usually because we have to if

something's happening so money is

missing from my account

okay so money's missing from my account

and

[Music]

um

and so I've gone into sort of that sort

it so I may be pacing I might be walking

up and down I may be struggling to queue

and my you know find it really really

difficult to wait my turn

combined with impulsivity

I might push in I might walk past

somebody you know not particularly

necessarily on purpose but we're just

with no idea

that there were other people there and

that I've got this massive issue going

on and I'm going to go straight to the

phone

um you know and it would be very very

easy for um you know for for this to be

um uh uh sort of escalated I suppose

would be the right word for it very easy

for this to be escalated you know again

this is a time when somebody's done this

if you don't know I think you're a

divergent or what you really just don't

have

step up and say can I help you can I

help you at this point that ADHD person

or anyone really

can get agitated and maybe you're

starting to get a little bit verbal and

again you you have to be the one to

bring it down yeah you have to be the

one to bring that situation down and

again it's the cup of tea in a Biscuit

so you listen to it so you know and

again that would happen in the workplace

as well in in the situation the setting

of the workplace

um yeah uh you know person gets home

from work that night checks the wages

have gone in they've not gone in they

may struggle to sleep on that they may

get agitated overnight they might hyper

fixate on that thing come until the next

day maybe be a bit shouty you know and

you'd be that person to say well sorry

you know whoever it may be let's talk

about it let's fix this for you because

these things are you know

um

these things are important

social media can be very helpful I've

got a few nuggets here you know uh

inform and prepare for any changes in

routine if you are having an unexpected

meeting on next Wednesday let them know

get in touch with people use your

Twitter use your Instagram these are the

places you know uh Branch Instagram gosh

I couldn't find one for my paint

but in actual fact

um

but the bank I'm currently using most is

a is a totally online bank but but

um you know

have that up there I would absolutely

have Twitter alerts or Instagram alerts

for my local bank just to find out

what's going on you know when people are

there whether they be staff whether they

be visitors to the bank consumers

customers what you know uh it you know

remain supportive even though these

emotions might be too much you know

learn to recognize anxiety presentations

building up yeah to you know if you see

someone starting to get anxious starting

to get agitated you know

um that's the time that's the time to to

intervene you know and if you you will I

guarantee you will all have colleague

customer who you know is going to be

perceived as difficult I'm saying

perceived they're not probably not

intending to be individual learn from

that and you know and modify modify the

way you communicate you know

um I don't Einstein gets accused of all

sorts of saying this that and the other

but I don't I don't know about this but

um

uh I don't know about this but he's

apparently said you know the definition

of insanity is doing the same thing over

and again and expecting different

results yeah look at that that difficult

client comes in go up to them and say Hi

how are you

can I help today okay before

that that they they they have you know

you know they they escalate

um so you know hugely important and

again for your staff you know if you've

got that person who really doesn't want

to speak to them don't speak to them

it's okay it's what they want

um we have the key to human behaviors

this is fascinating to me

uh this is autism and ADHD the first

four social emotional communication

rigidity of thought and sensory art

autism the second three are attentional

issues impulsivity hyperactivity and I

just want to take a couple of those and

just have a little play with them when

was the last time you didn't understand

the request from your line manager and

normally I would sort of talk to this

talk about this in in in in a sort of

communicative way work workshop but you

know uh people say oh yeah you know how

did you feel I felt stupid I felt like I

should know I felt I felt after you know

uh I felt felt unintelligent yeah well

if somebody communicates with you in a

way that you don't understand

you're not stupid and communicative or

that it's really you you should be able

to expect better communication

so you know thinking about that thinking

about that when you are someone's line

manager

yeah really think hard about how you how

you send that message how you

communicate verbally or in a written

form

um you know and if you know and if if if

if if that person doesn't understand

allow them time to ask you about it

remember your last last hyperact what

caused this absolutely anxiety we use

the example of the um

we used use the example of the money

missing family account or your wages not

being bad this will make you high

quality and it will most definitely

definitely make the ADHD person

hyperactive put them in a stressful

situation they will become hyperactive

autistic people may start to stem and

tap their fingers or fiddling with

things or or stuff like that so

um you know what what what what what

uh you know what we we talk we talked

about sort of anxiety but also you know

relationships there are people that will

come into your bank and we'll you know

find it easier to speak to a male or

female or any other gender

yeah and um

and and you know again

if we can accommodate that that's

you know that's hugely useful changes to

routines there's a

um there's a

there's a strategy called social stories

which I've worked on and adapted and I

talk about sometimes other people I know

this is and basically explaining things

like changes between themes is that

sometimes other people I will this is

um what's happening how it affects you

and other people what you need to do

about it and why and this is great

autism ADHD communication they may be in

because they have absolutely no interest

you know and therefore being disc

communicative it may be something's gone

at home or they just don't want to be

there and so we have to with triggers in

autism we call autism

um when when autistic people have what's

best described as an anxiety attack we

call it a meltdown well ADHD people have

meltdowns as well and with these

meltdowns

it could be something triggered two days

ago so you know it's probably best with

your customers certainly to

um

to to rather than try and concentrate

what's going on and what's caused this

because you probably won't work it out

uh it's probably best to just try to

make a situation as comfortable as

possible

with colleagues it's maybe better to

sort of have some kind of coaching

communication with that person to find

out what may be bothering them it's a

different scenario isn't it

excuse me Niles but I have news for you

Copernicus called and you are not the

center of the universe yeah absolutely

um you know it's not about you and we

really don't we we don't want to sort of

you know be pushing towards that sort of

blame culture we just have to deal with

this stuff so it's probably not about

you but hang on maybe it is about you

maybe you need to

um

maybe you need to alter your approach

maybe you need to alter your approach to

uh you know to certain to certain

colleagues or certain clients and

communicate in a way you know

um I've I've just been I've just

finished working with somebody

who I didn't understand a word they said

you know and this person was responsible

for directing uh clients my way and so I

would get these clients

um and but the brief to me was you know

unintelligible gibberish

well as far as I'm concerned other

people can communicate so it might be

you it might not be you

respond react respond to react we have a

lot of fun with this because I often ask

people what's the best thing to do in a

situation to react and respond and they

always say respond but actually you know

um that's not always the case is it

because actually you know sometimes you

need to react if someone's about to get

hurt or something like that but usually

in a customer facing industry we have to

respond rather than we need to think

about it we need to be mindful of the

situation within and we need to think

about how we're going to communicate

with that person yeah would you like to

sit down for five minutes can I take you

somewhere quiet you know that kind of

thing also though don't forget there may

be people that really don't want to go

somewhere quiet

they would feel threatened by a small

environment so it's very much would you

like what can I do how can I help you

right

so I got online

and um

I had a chat with Sandy

so I shamefully have to admit that a

bank account that I no longer use one of

my accounts uh turns out to be over jaw

and I've not been paying enough

attention to it and it's about five

pound overdrawn

so I thought well let's let's have a

chat with Sandy here

hello why is account zero eight nine

three

overdrawn nice simple question and I was

expecting an answer because your road

tax has come out or you know or this has

been paid or that's been paid the

response from Sandy was this

thinking about changing your account

take a look at our business current

accounts pages to see what we offer

I was really concerned by this because I

thought I'd put in a really clear

question I thought Sandy the digital

assistant would be looking at my account

whilst I spoke in order to try and help

me

so we moved on we took this further

yeah

um did I answer the question

well I didn't click on that one I

thought I've got further questions how

do I freeze the account zero eight nine

three so I don't want anything else

coming out of that account

where the answer came what would you

like to apply for current account

application same sort of thing really

but there's nothing in there that's

given that impression so

I took it further again I thought I'll

go into the local branch

what are the opening times of your

Lincoln branch

take a look at our Branch ATM locator on

this page you can book an appointment

check our opening hours and search for

your nearest

Branch so I clicked on the branch and

ATM locator

and it turns out that my local branch is

in the ocean

so

um

we talk about anxiety and we talk about

how this you know how these things

happen

and

you know

in general autistic people need

well to respond better to online things

where they don't have to communicate

but it's got to work hasn't it it's got

to be able to work now I'm not

particularly picking on this bank

because that just happens to be the bank

that I focused on I don't know I'd be

willing to guess quite a few of them are

like that it'd be good for you to take

those same questions wouldn't it and go

away and check check your own bank an

ADHD person like me

we tend not to like this online stuff we

like a conversation

and so if we're offering something like

this we need a telephone call we need

you know so we need to know this isn't

had a massive knock-on effect to the

communication and the telephone and and

the need to telephone somebody or indeed

to walk into a bank into a branch

so

we're going to be watching this again I

hope share it with your friends show you

show your pals have a look through

there's been a lot of stuff in there I

really have filled it up you know I was

fighting to get eight hours I got 40

minutes

um but you know have a little look at

this five things you're going to change

yeah don't try and do everything because

it'll overwork yourself but five things

you're gonna change based on what we've

talked about today and stay in touch

Andrew w s e n I would very very much

like to hear from you so I think we're

going to go into some q a now if that's

what you'd like

and uh let's let's um

see if we can get some questions uh

please

Andrew thank you so much for that

presentation it was so interesting thank

you our audience a lot to think about

and so feel free to to add some

questions to the to the chat box but

just in the meantime

um we have had one question and that is

regarding the AI that banks are able to

use to support those with a neurodiverse

condition and how can AI support those

who who need that additional support and

how limited Are banks to be able to do

this well you saw one you saw my example

and I genuinely genuinely was not trying

to catch it out I really I thought they

were very clear questions I thought of

course I don't work in banking but it

would be unacceptable to say to me

you're doing it wrong

because I genuinely you know I I was

playing the game I didn't go into the

branch I didn't phone anybody up I

engaged with the um with the technology

and I think I think I think the first

thing is is way way too General

in fact it wasn't even vaguely focused

on on the answers and there has to be

and I again there has to be a some kind

of system whereby these things are being

monitored

where someone steps in but I'm also

aware you know in those circumstances

the the technology was clearly not

capable of dealing with those

three simple questions and so uh but I'm

also aware that's defeating the object

it's completely defeating the object I

have a person monitoring the AI my only

my only thought is that you know to

totally restructure that so that it's

it's really genuinely reading what

what's being typed up uh you know it's

to me not fit the purpose from an Autism

point of view

um autistic as we said autistic people

struggle with generalization skills

they they but the you know uh I'd

sometimes do an activity where I show

three types of dog

you know and and say to people how do we

know when something's a dog

and nobody knows

but the autistic person can because

they'll say well they've all got dog

noses

you know uh and because they're looking

for that common denominator and within

there there were no common denominators

now I do also use a completely online

bank

and uh one of the more modern online

banks uh and I've never had uh an issue

to to use of online chat but it does

seem to work extremely well you know not

the online chat but the you know the way

the bank works so there's clearly

facility in there to be able to

meet those needs it's it's whether

whether I'm gonna say it's whether the

banks I was going to say engaging but

not engaging because I wouldn't be here

otherwise it's whether the banks are

aware of how difficult those things are

I I would say to every Bank every person

that works in banking go and ask them

some similar go on your own bank account

you know I mean and that was I mean it's

not a serious situation it's a that

particular bank account within uh is a

bank account I don't use anymore you

know but sometimes most of the time when

your bank is overdrawn that's a serious

serious thing

you know that one's a bit of a joke to

me but it can be a very serious thing

yeah and I think it leads on to the next

question that we've we've had Andrew

about can you share any success stories

or examples of organizations that have

successfully implemented strategies and

to support neurodiverse consumers

absolutely 100 yeah uh

multiple multiple situations I did some

work for a chain of coffee shops you

know and um

they uh one of the first things they

took on what one of the first first

things they worked out was a lot of

their staff

were um were dyslexic and therefore

um they they were finding they were

getting people who were very physically

drawn towards that kind of work yeah

along with dyslexia you often have

traits of ADHD as well but of course

there were issues with communication

so they put in uh um they put in a

system of really clear visual labeling

that didn't use written word

and you know I don't get statistics of

how that's improved

productivity but the feedback was this

is really improved productivity you know

we don't hear that

um I also worked

I I did some uh work for a company that

provided

driving tests taxi driving tests you

know and again uh the clientele there

was a lot of ADHD cleontel who were you

know like to be out and about driving a

car meeting 20 30 new people in a day

it's couldn't be more ADHD you know and

but the problem was getting them through

those tests and what they did is they

broke those tests

down into I think it was a two-hour test

into into six 20-minute sessions

throughout a day

to allow those people to regather their

concentration skills and to be able to

you know

to access that test uh on 11 a Level

Playing Field it's funny because I was

going to talk a little bit about the

equality act and how you know that's

that's a legal requirement but I think

in in the workplace

uh such as yours it's very much a matter

of if it were me I'd want to come in and

have a look I'd want to come in and see

and say well we could do this we could

do that we could do the other

um I think

yeah I think uh I was approached I have

worked in the last couple of years for

one of one after the High Street Banks

and and they very very much took on

board the advice that I gave at the time

and I think it's very much about working

with

neurodivergent professionals

okay

and another question we've had which I

found quite interesting how can

individuals without neurodiverse

experiences become better allies and

advocates for neurodiversity how can how

can they support more

use your eyes usually is unusual

initiative you know I mean I did a lot

of stuff there which I was talking about

you know that person looks like they

don't want to have a joke don't have a

joke with them you know of course what I

didn't say was if the adhdp people you

know I mean all stand-up comics I've got

ADHD that's that's a fact the ADHD

people want to chat with you chat back

you know uh if if if if they're not you

know if they don't want to communicate

yeah then

don't you know don't have that

communication it's not personal you know

we had that pitch didn't we it's not you

it is you yeah and of the two pictures

and I I think it's about reading the

sides it's about reading the signs and

you know what what's really fascinating

is that that last 40 minutes had nothing

to do with neurodiversity really it was

about Humanity because we all got our

funny ways you know that thing about

being anxious yeah we all get anxious

you know

um Mrs Whitehouse starts pacing about

and bothered and you know I'm the one

with ADHD she's not you know but when

some things she can't you know she has

to focus on on this thing and it might

cause it to be hyperactive read the

signs look at what's right in front of

you because you know uh if you

especially in a customer facing industry

such as yours and the same behind the

scenes to your colleagues absolutely

same behind you know someone comes in

Grumpy every morning not play the game

of let's see who can make him speak

you know let that person come in in that

way you know and and be be easy going

with it

yeah and that's interesting

I think um the next question

is is something that a lot of people

worry about and this this is I'll read

out the question here

um I'm worried that I may be using the

wrong terminology when talking with

colleagues about neurodiversity how do I

know what the right thing to say is I

don't want to offend anyone right let's

start with neurodiversity then shall we

so um I've used the word neurodiversity

incorrectly probably 50 times in this

last hour everybody every human being is

more diverse

the correct terminology straight away is

neurodivergence

okay

um we don't have people with Autism we

have autistic people okay now the

trouble with that is yeah

nobody sends you an email to say dear

Andrew as of Monday we're going to call

autistic people autistic people not

people with Autism anymore nobody will

send that out to you

um autistic people that don't speak when

I started working in the industry they

were called uh non-verbal

then it was chooses not to speak but now

it's pre-verbal and there were probably

ones in between that I missed uh we

don't have symptoms we don't have suffer

from I had a person yesterday who

claimed to be an ADHD out of advocate

talked about suffers from symptoms and

person with ADHD in one paragraph and

yeah and and it is difficult I did some

work for the British Academy of

audiology

and although I I'm a hearing aid user

and I

you know I have hearing loss I my first

question was to the president with the

baa that's all well and good Claire but

what do I call them

yeah what do I call the what what

people who can't hear like to be called

and she said hearing loss ask that

question what do you like to be referred

to but I've also got a little helpful

thing for you on the national autistic

Society

website there is a page of acceptable

and unacceptable terminology

well that's that's helpful yeah and it's

a really good it's there's a lot of it

there's a heck of a lot of it but it's

very very good

so yeah

thank you

um

so Andrew thank you so much for today

it's been such an interesting discussion

and really relevant as well we're so

grateful for for you taking the time to

to do this

if our audience who are watching would

like to watch any of us back at any time

or share it amongst colleagues of

friends

um that will be available on our website

and our YouTube channel very very

shortly after this and if you would like

Andrew's details for your own

organization or you'd just like to learn

more about any of this and we will

include Andrew's details in the email to

your afterwards

so thank you all again for joining today

and thank you once again to Andrew for

for your Insight and have a lovely rest

of day everyone

thank you thank you very much thank you

bye