155. Can We Be Candid? How to Communicate Clearly and Directly | Think Fast, Talk Smart:...
Summary
TLDRIn this episode of 'Think Fast, Talk Smart,' host Matt Abrahams interviews Dr. Susan Rice, a visiting fellow at Stanford and former U.S. National Security Advisor. They discuss leadership, negotiation, and communication skills. Dr. Rice shares insights on effective leadership, emphasizing the importance of setting a clear vision, supporting teams, and providing candid feedback. She also reflects on her personal experiences with balancing professional and personal life, and how to handle political differences, particularly with her son. The episode highlights practical strategies for negotiation, leadership, and staying true to oneself in challenging situations.
Takeaways
- ๐ฏ The podcast 'Think Fast Talk Smart' aims to enhance listeners' communication skills and seeks feedback for improvement.
- ๐ Listeners are invited to complete a survey at fastersmarter.io/feedback to help shape future content.
- ๐ Incentive for survey participation includes a chance to win a signed book and podcast swag.
- ๐ Guest Susan Rice shares her leadership principles focusing on setting a vision, demonstrating passion, and valuing team members.
- ๐ค Emphasizes the importance of supporting team members both professionally and in their personal lives.
- ๐ Stresses the significance of direct and candid communication, especially when giving feedback.
- ๐ค Encourages seeking and accepting feedback to foster personal and professional growth.
- ๐ผ Discusses negotiation strategies, highlighting the need for understanding one's own and others' bottom lines.
- ๐ Advises on being authentic and confident in high-stakes or diverse group settings.
- ๐จโ๐ฉโ๐งโ๐ฆ Shares personal experience on managing political differences within family and valuing common ground.
- ๐ฃ๏ธ Identifies clarity, concision, and structure as key ingredients for successful communication.
Q & A
What is the purpose of the listener survey mentioned in the podcast?
-The purpose of the listener survey is to gather feedback from the audience to ensure the podcast is covering topics and featuring guests that are of interest to them. It helps the team at Think Fast Talk Smart to understand their listeners better and improve the content of the show.
What incentive is offered for completing the listener survey?
-For those who choose to provide their email address after completing the survey, they will be entered into a random drawing where three people will win a signed book and other Think Fast Talk Smart Swag.
What is the role of Susan Rice at Stanford University?
-Susan Rice is a visiting fellow at the Freeman Spogli Institute at Stanford and a distinguished visiting fellow at the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence.
What leadership principles does Susan Rice emphasize?
-Susan Rice emphasizes setting a clear vision and direction, demonstrating passion and commitment, and valuing people by bringing them along towards objectives. She also stresses the importance of caring for team members as human beings and supporting them in their personal lives.
How does Susan Rice approach giving feedback?
-Susan Rice is direct in giving feedback. She reinforces and encourages good performance and sits down with individuals to explain what they are doing wrong and how they can improve if they are underperforming.
What does Susan Rice believe is important when receiving feedback?
-Susan Rice believes that if you give feedback, you must also be able to take it. She has benefited from colleagues who have given her hard truths to help her improve and grow in her career.
How does Susan Rice approach high-stakes negotiations?
-Susan Rice believes in understanding one's own bottom lines and the interests and motivations of the other party. She finds it possible to negotiate with competitors or adversaries by exploring common ground.
What does Susan Rice enjoy about negotiating?
-Susan Rice enjoys the uncertainty of the outcome and the range of skills required, including intellect, humor, and charm. She finds directness effective in negotiations and appreciates the tangible outcomes and gratification when successful.
What advice does Susan Rice give to people who stand out as different in their work groups?
-Susan Rice advises people to be themselves, believe in themselves, and not try to be something they're not. She shares her father's saying that if someone's prejudice is a problem, it's their problem, not hers, emphasizing the importance of mental self-esteem and not letting others define you.
How does Susan Rice handle political differences within her family?
-Susan Rice handles political differences by prioritizing the shared love and common ground over disagreements. She admires her son's courage of convictions even though they disagree on many policy issues.
Who are the communicators Susan Rice admires and why?
-Susan Rice admires President Obama for his relatable, clear, passionate, and emotive communication style, and Jen Psaki for her clear, direct, and effective communication as a White House spokesperson.
What are the three ingredients for successful communication according to Susan Rice?
-Susan Rice believes the key ingredients for successful communication are clarity, conciseness, and having a structured message that is mindful of the audience.
Outlines
๐ Survey Request and Podcast Introduction
Matt introduces the Think Fast Talk Smart podcast and emphasizes the importance of listener feedback. He encourages listeners to take a quick survey at fastersmarter.io/feedback, with a chance to win signed books and other swag. The podcast aims to address relevant communication topics and guests. Matt then shifts to the main topic of the episode, welcoming Dr. Susan Rice, a visiting fellow at Stanford and former national security advisor, who will discuss leadership and negotiation.
๐ผ Principles of Leadership
Dr. Susan Rice shares her views on leadership, emphasizing setting a vision, demonstrating passion, and engaging others in the mission. She believes leadership is about empowering people by giving them space and support. She highlights the importance of leaders caring for their team members personally, drawing on her own experience with President Obama during her motherโs illness. Rice explains how personal support enhances professional commitment and performance.
๐ข Direct and Honest Feedback
Dr. Rice discusses her approach to giving and receiving feedback. She emphasizes the importance of being direct and clear in addressing both successes and failures. Rice prefers straightforward communication over passive-aggressive tactics. She mentions that, while she tries to be patient, she can be firm when needed. On receiving feedback, Rice shares how valuable 'tough love' has been for her personal growth, stating that accepting feedback is essential to improvement.
๐ค Strategies for High-Stakes Negotiation
Rice explains her approach to negotiating in high-stakes situations, particularly during her roles in national security and at the United Nations. She stresses the importance of knowing oneโs bottom lines and understanding the motivations of the other party. By identifying common ground and being clear in her own position, Rice believes tough negotiations can lead to successful outcomes. She adds that directness and transparency work better than being elusive or untrustworthy in negotiations.
๐ฏ The Joy of Negotiation
Rice expresses her enjoyment of negotiation, appreciating the unpredictability and the skills it requires, including intellect, charm, and humor. She finds negotiating fun because it challenges her and provides tangible results. While many people dread negotiations, Rice highlights the satisfaction of achieving a difficult outcome. She believes that a successful negotiation can provide quick and gratifying results, which she finds motivating.
๐ Advice for Standing Out in Diverse Settings
Rice offers advice to individuals who stand out in their workplace due to differences such as race, gender, or ideas. She encourages authenticity, advising people to stay true to themselves rather than trying to conform. She shares her father's experience as a Black professional in segregated America, reinforcing the idea that others' discomfort with oneโs identity is their problem, not yours. Rice advocates for building self-esteem and resisting others' attempts to define you.
๐ฌ Handling Political Differences within Families
Rice reflects on the political differences between herself and her son, Jake, who became a conservative and served as the president of Stanford College Republicans. Although their political views differ, they prioritize their relationship and avoid heated political debates to preserve family harmony. Rice admires her son's conviction, even though they often disagree. She emphasizes the importance of focusing on common ground in family relationships.
๐๏ธ Admiring Great Communicators
Rice identifies President Obama and Jen Psaki as two communicators she deeply admires. She praises Obama for his relatable, clear, and emotive style, along with his ability to write impactful speeches. Rice also admires Psaki for her skill at handling press briefings with a combination of humor, directness, and grace. Both exemplify the importance of mastering the art of communication.
๐ Ingredients for Effective Communication
Rice shares her key ingredients for successful communication: clarity, conciseness, and structure. She emphasizes that being clear and direct without unnecessary embellishment is crucial. Structuring a message helps prevent meandering and ensures the communicator stays focused. Additionally, understanding the audience is vital for tailoring the message appropriately.
Mindmap
Keywords
๐กCommunication skills
๐กFeedback
๐กLeadership
๐กNegotiation
๐กClarity
๐กEmpathy
๐กSelf-confidence
๐กDiversity
๐กStructure
๐กTough love
Highlights
Think Fast Talk Smart aims to improve communication skills and seeks listener feedback.
Listeners are invited to complete a survey for a chance to win a signed book and Think Fast Talk Smart Swag.
Matt Abrahams interviews Susan Rice, who discusses her leadership principles and experiences.
Leadership involves setting a vision, demonstrating passion, and bringing people together towards a common goal.
Rice emphasizes the importance of valuing team members both professionally and personally.
Supporting team members in their personal lives can strengthen the team's commitment to the mission.
Rice shares her direct approach to giving feedback, focusing on clarity and honesty.
Receiving feedback is crucial for personal and professional growth.
Negotiation requires understanding one's own bottom lines and the interests of the other party.
Rice finds joy in negotiation due to its unpredictability and the tangible outcomes.
Being direct and genuine is advised when standing out in a group due to differences.
Rice's father's advice on not letting others' perceptions define you is highlighted.
Rice discusses managing political differences with her son and the importance of family unity.
President Obama and Jen Psaki are admired by Rice for their communication skills.
Key ingredients for successful communication include clarity, concision, and structure.
Think Fast Talk Smart is produced by a team including Jenny Luna, Ryan Campos, and Matt Abrahams.
Listeners are encouraged to invest in their education through Stanford executive education programs.
Transcripts
[SOUND] Hi Matt here,
our goal at Think Fast Talk Smart
is to help you hone and develop
your communication skills, we're
curious if we're hitting the mark.
We've talked about feedback and
listening many times on the show,
and now we'd like you to share your
thoughts about
Think Fast Talk Smart.
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The survey can be found
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we will enter you into a random
drawing where three people will
win a signed book and
other Think Fast Talk Smart Swag.
We look forward to hearing
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thank you in advance for
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thank you for listening.
Again, go
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[SOUND] Being direct and candid can
help us in the most challenging of
communication situations.
My name is Matt Abrahams, and
I teach strategic communication at
Stanford Graduate School of
Business, welcome to
Think Fast Talk Smart The Podcast.
Today, I am excited to speak with
Susan Rice.
Dr. Rice is a visiting fellow at
the Freeman Spogli Institute at
Stanford and a distinguished
visiting fellow at the Stanford
Institute for Human-Centered
Artificial Intelligence.
She previously served as domestic
policy advisor for President Biden
and was President Obama's national
security advisor, and
the US permanent representative to
the United Nations.
She is the author
of the New York Times bestselling
memoir, Tough Love, My Story
of the Things Worth Fighting For.
Welcome, I am so excited to have
you join me today, and
I look forward to the conversation
we're going to have.
>> Me to, thanks for
having me, Matt.
>> So, let's get started,
you have led a variety of teams and
organizations throughout
your career,
are there any specific leadership
principles you follow or use?
>> I think good leadership first of
all is about setting a vision and
a direction and hopefully,
an ambitious target.
It's about demonstrating passion
and commitment to achieving
that target and hopefully to
energizing the folks around you.
But to me ultimately,
leadership is about people, it's
about bringing others along with
you towards that objective or goal.
And to do that, people have to feel
not only wedded to the mission, but
valued in their role in
contributing to the mission.
So, I try very hard to find
the best people, and then giving
those great people the space and
the capacity and
the power to do what they do best.
And give them the expectation
that when they need direction,
or they need top level cover, or
they need somebody to blast through
the barriers, or
consummate whatever it is,
that they know when and how to seek
that direction for me as a leader.
But I've also discovered that for
people to feel valued and
willing to give their utmost,
they've got to know that their
leaders, their teammates
care about them as human beings.
And so, to me, that means that they
need to know that their personal
lives come first.
When the people we need and
love need us most, that it's okay
to be there, and that the team will
fill in behind you and support you,
whether you're the most senior
person on the team, or
the most junior person on the team.
When I was national security
advisor, my mom was very ill, and
she actually passed in the last
month of the Obama administration
and President Obama
very much led the same way.
He was a dad,
he was a real human being, and
he gave me the license to do what I
had to do to be able to support my
mom even as I was doing my job 24/7
as national security advisor.
And that's the same way that I
tried to lead my teams and
give everybody on the team that
same grace.
>> I appreciate you sharing that
personal story, thank you,
I think it demonstrates the type
of leadership that you believe in.
It sounds like it's about finding
the right people, setting standards
and mission vision, and
really supporting them both in
their professional work, but
also in their personal lives.
I'm curious,
I can imagine giving feedback,
both positive and constructive,
is part of that,
how do you approach feedback?
>> Giving it or getting it or both?
>> I'll take both, but
I'm curious about the giving part.
>> I'm very direct, and I think
the folks I work with expect that
what they see is what they get.
I don't believe in playing games
and going around people and
being passive aggressive and
all of that stuff.
I shoot straight, and if somebody
is doing particularly well,
I want to reinforce that and
encourage it, especially if there's
been real progress.
If somebody is screwing up,
I'll sit them down and
explain what they are doing wrong,
what the expectations are, and what
I think they need to do better.
And I will try to the best of my
ability to do that, especially in
the first instances [LAUGH], in
a patient and kind, if not always
gentle way, but I'm not averse to
being more forceful if my sense
is that there's not an interest or
an effort at remediation.
>> I hear in your answer
to your leadership approach and
to your giving feedback that being
very clear, helping prioritize, and
being supportive when appropriate
are part of that.
>> Being candid, and you asked
about receiving feedback by
the same token, [LAUGH] if you give
it, you got to be able to take it.
And so, I've really benefited at
various stages of my career from
colleagues who've been,
as I would say, kind enough to give
me the hard truths, or the tough
love or whatever you want to call
it to enable me to be better and
help me to recognize where I'm
falling short.
>> I think that's really important
that people not only take
the feedback but seek it out.
>> Yeah. >> And that's how we get
better.
My favorite song from the musical
Hamilton is in the room where it
happens, and you definitely have
been in many of those rooms.
What insights can you provide into
how best to negotiate in high stake
situations?
>> Drawing in particular on my time
in national security at the United
Nations where, for example,
I was negotiating regularly with
the Chinese and the Russians and
other complicated interlocutors on
security council resolutions or
the like, or as national security
advisor negotiating arrangements
with foreign governments.
I think very important to
understand in the first instance
what one's own bottom lines are,
what do I need to walk away with,
must have in order for
this to be successful or
acceptable outcome for the people
I'm negotiating on behalf of.
But equally important to try to
understand the interests and
the motivations and
to the extent possible the bottom
lines of the people on the other
side of the table.
Believe it or not, it's possible to
negotiate tough things with
competitors or adversaries, if
there's a willingness to understand
what is making the other side tick,
what they view as their must-haves,
and then trying to explore whether
there's any way to get to common
ground.
>> It sounds like to me that in
your approach to negotiation,
it's first about clarity in your
own position, a bit of empathy to
understand other people's position.
And I really like that idea of
anchoring the bar high, and
that buys you some
room to actually move around.
So, those are some levers that
you can pull to help
move the negotiation.
>> I love negotiations, so
much fun.
>> Tell me more about that, so
in all the roles you had,
do you find negotiation enjoyable?
>> I learned in doing it,
that I really enjoyed it.
What's fun about negotiating is
that you're not ever
sure where you're going to end up.
It requires a whole range of skills
from intellect to a little bit of
canny to all of the things
I just described, humor, charm.
I find that as a direct person,
being direct in negotiations
actually works much better than
being somebody who's perceived as
slippery or
elusive or untrustworthy.
And then when you succeed,
the product is there tangible, and
the gratification is significant,
so I just find it fun.
>> The reason I was curious
is a lot of people I talk to
don't like negotiating, they'd
like to avoid it if they could, and
it's interesting to hear that for
you, it's something that's exciting
because it gets to leverage some of
the skills that you appreciate and
have honed.
>> I like the outcomes of when you
can get somewhere that's hard that
you didn't know that you could get
to, and what you come out
with is tangible and it's not quite
immediate gratification, but
it's relatively quick tangible
gratification.
>> Well, I appreciate that, and
I think it might be motivational to
many people for
whom negotiation is hard or
something they try to avoid.
What advice can you give to
people who find themselves
in situations where they stand
out as different from others in
the groups that they work in?
Be it because of their ideas,
their gender, their race,
cultural background, etc.
You've worked with so
many people who are different,
what advice do you
give to people in those situations?
>> This may sound simple and trite,
but I think people do best when
they are themselves and believe in
themselves, and they're not trying
to be something that they're not.
I've spent much
of my career as one of the only, or
one of the few black Americans in
the room, or woman in the room, or
I could spend a lot of time
being anxious about that,
and maybe trying to trim my sails,
or fit in, or in some other way,
adapt myself to that environment.
And I find one that's not very
genuine, but more importantly,
it's not very comfortable,
and I'm not bringing my best if I
were to do that, and so
my dad used to have a saying that I
really have taken to heart.
And he was talking about
his experience growing up in
the segregated south and
serving in the segregated army
air force during World War II, and
then trying to break into
the professional world as a PhD in
economics in the 1950s when there
were very few African Americans.
And his whole career was one of
sort of having to be the first or
the second through any given door,
and he had a saying which was,
if my being black is going to be a
problem, it's going to be a problem
for somebody else and not for me.
Meaning that if somebody is trying
to make him feel uncomfortable or
inferior or in some other way
unwelcome in a given setting.
First of all,
it's about understanding why that
person is doing that,
they're doing that because of their
own insecurities and
all likelihood, or their own needs
to make another person feel small.
And you have an option of embracing
their definition of you as your own
or trying to resist that and
building the muscles of mental
self-esteem.
And not letting other people define
you for you, and
that was something that my parents
beat into my head and my heart, and
I think it's helped me quite a bit
as I've been in environments where
I may not have been an obvious fit
in the first instance.
>> That notion of not letting other
people define us I think is a very
powerful notion for
many people in many situations,
I appreciate you sharing that.
Before we end, I'd like to ask you
three questions,
one I'm going to create just for
you and the two others are similar
that I ask people across all these
interviews, are you up for that?
>> I will do my best.
>> Excellent,
I've heard you tell this story once
live and once elsewhere about some
differences of opinion that
exist in your own family.
Would you share for our audience
how your son, a Stanford
student alum, had a different,
perhaps political orientation at
least while here versus yours.
And how did you negotiate that and
how did you manage that?
>> Well, my eldest child is my son,
Jake, as we call him, but
his given name is John, has always
been really interested in events
around him in the world, and as he
got older in politics and policy,
growing up in Washington D.C,
as he did with our family and
where I grew up.
And yet somehow along the way,
somewhere in his early to
mid-teens, having once upon a time
campaigned with me in the snows
of New Hampshire for Barack Obama,
he evolved into a rather
conservative political mind.
And when he got here to Stanford
after a year or so,
ended up as president of
Stanford College Republicans and
stayed in that role through
most of his time at Stanford, and
he was not a shy and
retiring version of the President
of Stanford College Republicans.
He was outspoken and unabashed,
and sought out debate and
engagement with the Stanford
College Democrats, with other
people of different persuasions.
He brought the conservative
speakers to campus, some of whom
would not have been anything like
my cup of tea, and that was
challenging because I had by that
time a certain image nationally,
and he had a very different one.
And because of that, there was some
national attention or national news
media particularly on the right who
thought this was quite delightful.
But we are very close,
and I love both my children as
deeply as it's possible to do so.
But we just disagree on a lot
of policy issues, not all of them,
but a lot, and we vote differently.
But I'm proud of him because he has
the courage of his convictions, and
it takes guts, and I admire that,
but nonetheless we continue to
disagree strenuously on many things
and times it can get contentious.
Now that he's grown up,
out of home, married,
working, all that stuff,
I don't get to see him that much.
So, I try really
hard not to squander the time that
we have arguing about politics, but
it's a situation that I think many
people are familiar with.
In our family,
we try to prioritize the things
that we share in our love over our
political differences.
>> So, finding that common ground,
I can't imagine where
he gets his confidence and
his strong, >> From his dad.
>> Okay. >> [LAUGH] >> I see that,
it must be, it must be.
I'll be very curious to get your
answer to question number two,
who is a communicator that you
admire and why?
>> Well, I'm going to give two
probably predictable answers, but
they're honest answers.
>> Sure. >> Obviously,
really admire President Obama as
a communicator.
He has an extraordinary ability to
be relatable and clear, and
passionate and funny and
emotive and all of these things at
different ways at different times.
And as a writer himself,
he spends time on his spoken words,
and I think is really reflected
in how he comes across, so
he's top of the list.
Another is a friend and
multiple time former colleague
of mine who I admire enormously for
her communications skills,
Jen Psaki, who most people know
as President Biden's first
White House spokesperson.
And now she's a anchor on MSNBC.
But the reason I admire her is,
I don't think I've ever seen
a spokesperson with such clear,
direct, plain English way of
communicating, but also,
she parried the press so
expertly with humor and
forcefulness when needed, but grace
and just watching her dance at that
podium was just brilliant and fun.
>> I hear in both of those
responses a respect for
people who take the art of
communication very seriously and
work on their abilities.
My final question for you,
what are the first three
ingredients that go into
a successful communication recipe?
>> I think being able to be clear,
not convoluted, not overly flowery,
just clear and direct and
on point is certainly one, being
concise when that's appropriate,
and none of us are perfect at that,
but I think that's helpful.
And then having a structured
message so
that you've given some thought to
what it is you're trying to say and
the key points you're trying to get
across, not meandering,
not veering, not getting off track.
And I think if you have a structure
to your thinking and
to your message, if you can deliver
it without a lot of diversionary
flourish and just to be mindful of
who it is you're talking to, your
way of communicating in one venue
might differ from that in another.
But I think the key ingredients
are usually constants.
>> The notion of clarity,
concision, structure and
knowing your audience so
well summarize the advice that
we have heard across many episodes.
Thank you very much for this
opportunity to chat your candor,
your directness and your role
modeling, the specific behaviors
that you preach and live your life
by were really, really powerful.
I appreciate your time and for
your insight.
>> Thank you, Matt, it's been fun.
>> Thank you. [MUSIC]
Thank you for joining us for
another episode of
Think Fast Talk Smart, The Podcast.
To learn more about effective
leadership, listen to Episode
35 with Jeff Emilt.
This episode was produced by
Jenny Luna, Ryan Campos, and me,
Matt Abrahams.
Our music is from Floyd Wonder,
with thanks to
Podium Podcast Company.
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be sure to subscribe and rate us.
Also follow us on LinkedIn and
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[MUSIC]
Hi, Matt here, quick question for
you, when was the last time you
took a step back from your daily
life and took the time to invest in
yourself and your education?
For a lot of us,
it's been a long while, but
here's the truth,
great leaders never stop learning.
If this sounds like you,
I encourage you to explore Stanford
executive education programs.
These programs are jam packed with
insights from Stanford GSB
professors, and
bring together top leaders like you
from all around the globe.
Explore Stanford executive
education programs now at
grow.stanford.edu/learn [SOUND].
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