Scaling the Unscalable With Disruptive Marketing Tips
Summary
TLDRL'importance de la croissance pour les startups est soulignée par Eric Pillweiler, fondateur et PDG de Rival, une agence de conseil en innovation marketing. Il partage des conseils précieux sur la construction de marque et de stratégies de marketing, mettant l'accent sur l'importance de comprendre les besoins des clients et d'ajouter de la valeur. Il discute également de la transparence nécessaire dans le monde des startups et de la pression subie par les entrepreneurs.
Takeaways
- 🌟 L'importance de la croissance pour les startups est cruciale et la marque est un élément clé pour une croissance durable à long terme.
- 🚀 Un bon produit配合 une excellente marque est la combinaison gagnante pour assurer la croissance des entreprises.
- 🧠 La marque influence la perception et le comportement des consommateurs, c'est pourquoi il est essentiel de la considérer comme une partie intégrante de la stratégie d'entreprise.
- 💡 La marque est plus qu'une simple identification visuelle, c'est l'ensemble des éléments qui entourent le bénéfice fonctionnel d'un produit.
- 🤔 Les startups ne mettent pas suffisamment l'accent sur la marque et le marketing en raison de la nature intangible et émotionnelle de ces domaines.
- 🔍 Il est possible de quantifier et mesurer l'impact d'une marque, même si cela n'est pas toujours immédiat ou complet.
- 📈 Les entreprises qui réussissent à se concentrer sur la création de valeur pour leur marché sont celles qui connaîtront une croissance importante.
- 🤝 La mise en place d'une équipe marketing doit être adaptée aux besoins et aux forces de l'entreprise, que ce soit pour un tout débutant ou pour une entreprise en croissance.
- 🎯 L'emphase sur la marque et le marketing ne doit pas se limiter à la publicité, mais doit être centrée sur l'intégration de la clientèle dans les processus de l'entreprise.
- 💼 L'entrepreneuriat est un processus difficile et stressant, il est important d'être honnête et transparent sur les défis et les réussites rencontrés.
- 🔗 L'investissement dans un CRM personnel peut être un atout majeur pour gérer efficacement les relations professionnelles et personnelles.
Q & A
Quel est le rôle principal du marketing pour les startups ?
-Le rôle principal du marketing pour les startups est de favoriser la croissance de la marque et de l'entreprise à long terme. Cela implique de changer la perception et le comportement des consommateurs, en racontant une histoire et en créant une émotion autour du produit, pour influencer les décisions des clients.
Pourquoi les startups ne mettent-elles pas suffisamment l'accent sur le marketing et la construction de marque ?
-Les startups ne mettent pas suffisamment l'accent sur le marketing et la construction de marque car elles sont souvent fondées par des personnes ayant des compétences techniques ou des connaissances en produit, mais pas nécessairement en marketing. Par conséquent, elles se concentrent principalement sur le développement du produit et négligent la marque et le marketing, qui sont cependant essentiels pour une croissance durable.
Comment les entreprises peuvent-elles mesurer l'impact de leur marque sur leur croissance ?
-Les entreprises peuvent mesurer l'impact de leur marque sur leur croissance en utilisant des études de marché, des analyses de données et des indicateurs de performance marketing tels que le retour sur investissement (ROI). Elles peuvent également suivre les changements dans la perception et la loyauté des clients envers la marque.
Quels sont les avantages de la personnalité de marque pour les fondateurs et les équipes de startups ?
-Les avantages de la personnalité de marque pour les fondateurs et les équipes de startups incluent la création d'une image positive et mémorisable, l'attraction de clients et d'investisseurs, et l'établissement d'une crédibilité dans l'industrie. Cela peut également aider à générer des partenariats et des opportunités de croissance.
Comment les startups peuvent-elles attirer l'attention et l'engagement des clients potentiels ?
-Les startups peuvent attirer l'attention et l'engagement des clients potentiels en créant des contenus de qualité, en utilisant des stratégies de marketing ciblées et en établissant une connexion émotionnelle avec leur audience. Elles peuvent également organiser des événements, des campagnes de sensibilisation et des collaborations avec des influenceurs pour augmenter leur visibilité et leur crédibilité.
Quels sont les erreurs fréquentes que les startups commettent lors de la création de campagnes marketing ?
-Les erreurs fréquentes que les startups commettent lors de la création de campagnes marketing incluent l'absence de清晰的目标, le manque de personnalisation des messages, l'investissement excessif dans des campagnes qui ne génèrent pas de retours sur investissement, et l'oubli de mesurer et d'analyser l'efficacité de leurs stratégies.
Comment les startups peuvent-elles améliorer leur stratégie de marketing pour une croissance durable ?
-Les startups peuvent améliorer leur stratégie de marketing pour une croissance durable en comprenant les besoins et les préférences de leurs clients, en créant une marque forte et reconnaissable, en utilisant des canaux de marketing diversifiés et en mesurant l'impact de leurs campagnes pour ajuster leur approche en temps réel.
Quels sont les avantages de la transparence et de l'honnêteté dans les communications des startups avec leur audience ?
-Les avantages de la transparence et de l'honnêteté dans les communications des startups incluent la construction de la confiance et de la crédibilité avec les clients et les investisseurs, la création d'une communauté engagée et fidèle, et l'évitement de la déception et de l'échec à cause de l'inflation des attentes.
Comment les startups peuvent-elles équilibrer la diffusion des nouvelles de réussite et de défaite ?
-Les startups peuvent équilibrer la diffusion des nouvelles de réussite et de défaite en partageant honnêtement les hauts et les bas de leur parcours, en expliquant les leçons apprises des échecs et en célébrant les petits succès en cours de route. Cela permet de créer une image authentique et de maintenir l'engagement de leur audience.
Quels sont les avantages de la création d'une CRM personnelle pour les entrepreneurs et les fondateurs de startups ?
-La création d'une CRM personnelle permet aux entrepreneurs et aux fondateurs de startups de mieux gérer et de suivre leurs relations avec les clients, les partenaires et les contacts potentiels. Cela peut aider à améliorer la communication, à suivre les opportunités de collaboration et à optimiser l'utilisation du temps et des ressources.
Comment les fondateurs de startups peuvent-ils mieux apprécier et célébrer leurs réussites ?
-Les fondateurs de startups peuvent mieux apprécier et célébrer leurs réussites en prenant le temps de reconnaître et de célébrer les petits accomplissements au fil du temps, en partageant leurs expériences avec leur équipe et leur communauté, et en se fixant des objectifs à court et long terme à célébrer.
Outlines
🚀 Introduction to Growth Strategies
The video begins with an introduction to Eric Phil Weiler, founder and CEO of Rival, a marketing innovation consultancy. Eric shares his 15 years of experience in growth, including his time as one of the first 15 employees at VaynerMedia. The discussion emphasizes the importance of marketing and brand building for startups, highlighting that while a great product is necessary, a strong brand is equally vital for sustainable long-term growth. Eric explains that changing consumer perception and behavior through storytelling is at the heart of brand marketing.
🤔 Understanding Marketing's Role
Eric delves into why marketing is often overlooked by startups, particularly those with a product or technology focus. He suggests that the intangible nature of branding can make it seem less urgent than product development. However, he argues that startups need to balance their focus on product with a strategic approach to marketing and brand building. Eric also discusses the evolution of marketing roles, from connecting product to customer needs to the modern understanding of marketing as a holistic approach to business growth.
🧐 Hiring the Right Marketing Talent
The conversation shifts to the topic of hiring marketing talent. Eric advises startups on when and how to hire marketers, emphasizing the importance of finding individuals who can bridge the gap between product and customer. He suggests that startups should assess their own strengths and weaknesses to determine what type of marketer they need. Eric also highlights the value of practical assessments, such as assignments or tasks, to gauge a candidate's fit and potential impact.
🗣️ The Importance of Customer Conversations
Eric stresses the necessity of engaging with potential customers, whether they've made a purchase or not. He advocates for direct conversations as a means to understand customer needs and preferences. While acknowledging the challenges of early-stage customer engagement, Eric encourages entrepreneurs to leverage their networks and to be proactive in seeking feedback. He also mentions the use of consumer research platforms and the importance of iterating product offerings based on market feedback.
📈 Growth Through Unlocking Value
Eric discusses the concept of growth through the lens of unlocking new or differentiated value in the market. He asserts that understanding customer needs is paramount to achieving growth and that businesses fail when they lose focus on their customers. He references the 'jobs to be done' framework as a methodology for deeply understanding customer needs and suggests that being customer-centric is the key to sustainable business growth.
🌟 Building Personal Brand
The discussion turns to personal branding, with Eric sharing his experiences and views on its importance for entrepreneurs. He believes that many people either overdo or underutilize personal branding, but most fail to invest enough in it. Eric sees personal branding as an investment, likening it to building a network that can be leveraged for various future endeavors. He encourages entrepreneurs to find their preferred modes of communication and to start documenting their journey, emphasizing the value of consistency and self-awareness in personal branding efforts.
🎥 Learning from Marketing Campaigns
Eric reflects on the role of marketing campaigns in business growth, cautioning against the allure of flashy ads that fail to deliver results. He argues that the true measure of a successful campaign is its impact on the business, not just its disruptiveness or creativity. Eric shares examples of campaigns that have caught his attention, such as Duolingo's presence on TikTok and Coinbase's Super Bowl ad, highlighting their effectiveness in engaging audiences and driving business outcomes.
💡 Embracing Entrepreneurial Realities
Eric calls for greater honesty and transparency in the entrepreneurial community, particularly regarding the challenges and struggles of starting and growing a business. He expresses concern that the often polished portrayal of success on social media can lead to feelings of inadequacy among other entrepreneurs. Eric advocates for sharing both the triumphs and the trials of entrepreneurship to foster a more balanced and supportive environment for those on the startup journey.
🛠️ Startup Hacks and Strategies
In the final part of the discussion, Eric and his guest share their startup 'hacks' or strategies for success. Eric talks about using email marketing to raise funds for his business and emphasizes the importance of knowing your audience and crafting relevant messages. He also mentions the value of maintaining a personal CRM to track and nurture professional relationships. His guest adds the importance of time management, recommending that entrepreneurs block time for both important tasks and downtime to ensure productivity and mental well-being.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Croissance
💡Marque et marketing
💡Valeur émotionnelle
💡ADN marketing
💡Centricité client
💡Perspective produit
💡CRM personnel
💡Gestion du temps
💡Marketing de contenu
💡Authenticité
Highlights
Growth is crucial for startups and Eric Phil Weiler shares his expertise on harnessing its power.
A great product and a strong brand are essential for sustainable, long-term business growth.
Branding is about changing perception and behavior in the consumer market through storytelling.
Human decision-making is not solely based on rational logic, but also on emotions and brand perception.
Eric's experience at VaynerMedia and as MD for Europe provides valuable insights into marketing and brand growth.
Many startups lack marketing DNA in their founding teams, leading to a focus on product over brand.
Marketing should be seen as a way to connect the product to the customer, not just as advertising.
Eric suggests that someone in the company should be responsible for being the voice of the customer internally.
Hiring the right marketer involves culture fit and practical assignments to test their skills.
Personal brand building is an investment in one's career, and many founders don't do it enough.
Eric emphasizes the importance of talking to customers and potential customers to understand their needs.
All growth comes from unlocking new or differentiated value in the market, which requires understanding the customer.
The role of marketing is to drive growth of a brand and business, not just to create disruptive campaigns.
Duolingo's success on TikTok is an example of marketing that adds value and doesn't feel like traditional advertising.
Eric argues against the binary notion of being an entrepreneur or not, suggesting it's a spectrum.
The importance of investing in personal CRM to track and nurture professional relationships.
Time management is crucial for professional success; block time for important tasks, not just urgent ones.
Transcripts
[Music]
so growth is the magic word for startups
but how do you harness its power
our guest today is an expert in all
things growth he's going to share some
first-hand wisdom and a lot of really
cool tips his name is eric phil weiler
and he's the founder and ceo of rival
they're a marketing innovation
consultancy that helps businesses think
and act like challengers he himself he
is an absolute bona fide expert in
growth and he's been doing it for 15
years not only that he's one of the
first 15 employees at vaynermedia and
he's the md for europe yeah and that's
vaynermedia that's garyvee's business
pretty amazing stuff so today he's
sharing some of those secrets it's a
really great episode with some real
nuggets and some really actionable
content i really hope you guys enjoy the
show you work a lot of startups tell me
fundamentally like from your perspective
why is it that marketing and brand
building is just is so important and
why are you so passionate about it for
startups so i thought you were going to
ask me why more startups don't do it
well you're going to come for for some
reason i guess based on what we're
coming straight we're going to come on
today we're going to start with why it's
important and then why people aren't
doing a good job
i mean how could it not be important i
don't know it's interesting for me
you know obviously as a marketer when
you're a hammer everything's a nail or
you see the world full of nails it's
like of course brand and marketing is
important right
the way that you grow a business
sustainably in the long term is you have
a great product
and you have a great brand
you can do one of those things and grow
a business for a little bit of time but
if you want to have true long-term
sustainable growth it all comes back to
innovation of the product and of the
brand
another way of saying it more
practically is um
you know you grow a business through
changing perception and behavior
in the consumer market
the way you do that is through telling a
story a brand is what changes people's
perception about what they should do or
what they shouldn't do
another way of saying it is it's
everything that's wrapped around the
functional benefit that you deliver as a
product it's the emotional side of
things we as human beings don't just
function
functionally we don't make decisions
logically you know i saw your daniel
kahneman
in the uh in the table right next to us
right it's like it's been proven
and we all know at this point that we're
not creatures of solely rational
logical thought and so the way that we
interact with the world we look at you
know what i'm wearing what you're
wearing these brands that we choose to
associate ourselves with
so much of who we are
whether we know it or not whether we
like it or not is dictated by brands
and how we interact with them and how we
perceive them so
it's fundamental is the short answer i
think if you want to build a meaningful
long-term business you need to be
thinking about brand as much and
marketing as much as you're thinking
about product or commercials for that
matter
do you think that the reason that people
don't do that is
because
it's so intangible the brand piece
because you know when you start well i
didn't say intangible i said emotional i
think you can i know i think i think i
think it's a really good point i think
we should touch on that for a second
because
you can quantify you can measure the
impact a brand you can't always measure
all of it all the time
if you're doing it well meaning not
everything about how you do brands and
how you do marketing is short-term roi
you can't say that because you put your
logo on your sweater you're going to
generate more revenue for your business
over the next 90 days but you can
measure or i'm assuming you can measure
at this point
the value of having a stronger brand you
know you mentioned before we clicked
record some of the changes you did to
the color palette of the brand of your
business and the impact that that
actually had on the web track you can
measure it it is tangible not all of it
all the time
but you certainly can there's plenty of
studies up there out there
and and you know big businesses at this
point that actually quantify the value
of brands and more technology and more
businesses that are doing this on a
regular basis um
and so i think you know why more
companies don't do it is you do what you
know
right
i come from a marketing background i'm a
marketer and so that's why my answer to
the question of why is brand important
is like well why would it not be
important that's what i know but a lot
of startups don't have marketers and
their founding team they don't have
marketing dna
in that core of the organization so it
doesn't come as naturally to them you
know they focus on the product they
focus on the technology and and like i
was saying it's both its marketing and
product its brand and the value
proposition of what you bring to the
market but i think you need to recognize
as a founding team or as an early stage
entrepreneur even if it's just you
everybody has certain strengths and
weaknesses
and it tends to be especially if it's a
technology startup
that a lot of these teams don't have
brand or marketing in that team and i
think they need to find a way to balance
it out okay so we can accept the most
founders when they talk to businesses or
investors or wherever they talk
predominantly about their product
because that's where they're comfortable
because they know their product is
something that's different
but they don't realize that actually the
secret to success is doing a great
marketing campaign so they don't hire
people at the very beginning so if you
are gonna go out there
and hire someone you're not a technical
founder
the first question to me is okay should
i hire someone from day one is that or
when should i be hiring one that's the
first question but second of all who do
i hire like how do i
what skills am i looking for in a
marketer a day one am i looking for you
know an ex delivery or ex you know huge
cmo with loads of
loads of expense or do i look for
somebody who's really scrappy who's just
come out of uni or whatever and and just
can do lots of different things on tick
tock like what do i do who am i looking
for and also when do i hire them
so
i think to the first part of your
question of why don't more people focus
on this or why don't more people think
about this
i mean if you oversimplify things so
this dichotomy of either you can be
product centric or you can be customer
centric
there's a natural draw for us as humans
and certainly for you know the
stereotypical engineering technology
types to be much more focused on us what
we think is exciting what we're working
on our product our business we focus on
us right
what marketing does
is it brings the customer to the product
you know when somebody says marketing or
people listening when they think about
marketing they think of advertising
basically they think of okay what's that
campaign what does that brand look like
fundamentally the role of marketing is
to bridge the value of the product to a
need that's in the market
that's really what it does
so actually you know i'm sort of rival
six months ago but before that i was in
the fintech world for about two and a
half years and one of the co-founders in
the last business i was at was
co-founded monzo
and so he talked about um you know
branding and marketing at monzo in the
early days they didn't have a marketer
per se and actually there was this whole
conversation in the fintech world back
then
of we don't do marketing
and i'm using air quotes for the people
listening not watching because like i
would say to that like you do do
marketing you don't do advertising you
know now you see the monzo ads and the
revolut ads and transferwise and all
that on the buses and
tubes and all and everything you see it
everywhere you see all the advertising
but marketing is just connecting the
product to the customer and so monzo in
the early days just because of how
customer-centric they were just because
so much of that team was looking at
listening asking questions trying to get
feedback from the community they did
events to get people together to say hey
what are you looking for in a challenger
bank they created i think it's
community.monzo.com which you should
definitely go check out it's like a
reddit reddit style forum where people
can make suggestions for what they want
the product to be they brought the
customer into the product development
process
so if there's one actually you know
hopefully there's a couple takeaways for
people in this conversation but a big
one for me is don't think about
marketing as advertising think about it
as bringing the customer
into the business and so i think that's
why
that's probably why a lot of people
don't think about this is because they
think of marketing as advertising oh i
don't know that i'm not at a stage yet
to be doing advertising but actually
it's so much more fundamental than that
and you see that in a lot of the
businesses and the brands that are
successful like amonzo
in terms of going to hire somebody
you know
it depends is of course the answer
because it depends on the stage of the
business it depends on the founding team
it depends on who you are funding all
that stuff
but i think what i would say to try to
tee it up in a way that's helpful for
people
is whether or not you have a head of
marketing or a cmo or vp
somebody needs to be responsible for
being the voice of the customer
internally
and that is you know if you're doing it
right the role of marketing but it could
be you as the ceo it could be the header
product it could be your producer it
could be anybody that's the role that
you need to make sure is getting done as
a baseline
then you graduate from there and you
start to look at okay how do we actually
want to build our marketing function are
we going to be you know if you think of
the three types of um
three channels of marketing there's own
marketing there's paid marketing and
there's earned marketing right owned are
the channels that you own and operate
your website your social media etc paid
is paid advertising and earned is pr and
influence other people's attention or
other people that have already built the
attention of the audience you're trying
to reach which one of those you're going
to lean into so i think you as a as a
founding team or as a founder or as an
entrepreneur need to think about where
your strengths and weaknesses lie as a
business as an executive team and figure
out what type of marketer you need to
complement that
and then so much of it so much of
everything comes down to the reality
around you not the theory of how you
draw things up on paper so do you come
across a great person that maybe isn't
exactly
what you had in the job description but
you're going to find a way to get them
on board
um so it's um you know there's that mike
tyson quote i think about all the time
everybody's a plan until they get
punched in the face
that's a part of it yeah exactly part of
part of it is reacting to what's out
there and i think that's certainly true
with talent not just marketing talent
but all talent you know being at
vaynermedia in the early days we're
hiring a person a day i think i
calculated the other the other day in 15
my 15-year career i think i've hired
like 500 people
and so much of it is what walks in the
door and what doesn't walk in the door
and do you recognize good talent just
get it on board and figure everything
else out afterwards yep
yeah nice i like that a lot i want to
drill into two things you said there how
do you know what is good marketing
talent and what isn't so
i think culture fit matters most so
making sure that you are very clear on
the culture of your organization and how
you're testing for that in an interview
um
and then the other thing more
practically is
i think every i think nobody should hire
somebody without having them do some
type of assignment some type of task
because actually google did some
research a while back that looked at the
efficacy of unstructured informal
interviews and predicting the success of
someone in a job role and it was like 17
or something ridiculously low meaning if
you sit down and just have a
conversation hey tell me about yourself
explain to me that how would you handle
this type of situation like the basic
stuff it's very very low because that's
not what it's like to work with somebody
it's not just sitting and having an
informal conversation it's actually
tackling a project together
you know working on something together
and so what we do for rival and what did
11 of us and when i eventually figured
out what we did at vaynermedia
you always give somebody an assignment
to do you don't have them work on it for
too long and actually arrival we pay
people for that time because i think
that's just the right thing to do
um
but i think that's practically the thing
that i would do is figure it out either
either you if you know what type of
projects this how to marketing is going
to need to work on or this marketing
manager whatever the level is or talk to
somebody who would know
and say hey yeah have them do this
give them this type of brief and see
what they come back with and you're
looking for x y and z so make it
practical make it tangible
do something with them do some type of
project with them to see what it's like
to actually work together
fantastic that's a really good advice to
share like that a lot and i can
definitely attest to that going back to
my second question
you talk about like
having that conversation with the
customer bringing that voice of the
customer into the business
how do i practically do that
particularly when i don't have any so
you either have customers or you have
potential customers otherwise you don't
have to you could not exactly right
correct so there are people out there
who either have bought or could
potentially buy what you're selling
and you gotta go talk to them
like that's it you know like
the most important things in life not
just in marketing or business tend to be
very simple in theory but hard to do in
reality or you know it just takes time
it just takes kind of blood sweat and
tears
there are shortcuts there are you know
consumer research platforms and
technologies that you can use run focus
groups online and like all that stuff
honestly if you're an early stage
entrepreneur just make a list of the
people that you know who are potential
customers or make a list of the people
you know who know potential customers
and just get started getting started
going and having conversations with them
take notes after you do
see how things piece together and it's
going to start to give you more of a
sense it's you know you mentioned eric
reese before we started recording i
think it was before we started recording
as well lean startup it's the same thing
you know such a benefit for me being in
the fintech world for a few years after
having been in services companies for so
long and advertising agencies etc
just the idea that in ad agencies we
didn't think about iterating our product
offering with the market now just seems
crazy to me
so at rival i spent six months just
having conversations with senior
marketers
i'm thinking about doing this how do you
get that need solved internally oh
that's interesting what do you think
about that what if i did this type of
thing a lot of conversations like at
least for me and maybe this is coming
from the gary vaynerchuk school of
thought
like there's no shortcut you have to
just scale the unscalable and sometimes
you just got to put the hours in to be
able to do that so i would start there
now as you start a business or scale a
business then yes you can run focus
groups you can do online surveys
you can run you know some of the stuff
that we're doing at rival is actually
using what we call micro media
so small amounts of paid media small
amounts of content usually on social
media platforms to actually test
an offering or a story or a pitch it's
kind of like a b optimization on a
website so there's more complicated ways
to do it but if most of the people
listening are early stage entrepreneurs
or soon-to-be early stage entrepreneurs
just start having questions with your
network
i couldn't agree with that more i say to
i think if there is one message there if
you are going to over-index on anything
when you start your business or even
throughout your business you're going to
over-index anywhere it's talking to your
customers 100 it's never going
to lead you wrong it's just not because
they're the ones who buying from you and
look you have to
you know um
the mum test is one of the best books
you can ever read for that as well you
know because i
we had an incident recently where we ran
a campaign
and um
i was talking to all the customers
i am
very energetic i'm
i'm a sales guy so i'm compelling and
i'm like is this gonna be
amazing yeah it's gonna be amazing oh my
god and then you don't get any
commitment from you're like what's going
on why don't they like it you know
because
there is a way to talk to customers
don't go in there and bully them and say
look this is what you want isn't it this
is what you want you know have a genuine
open conversation with them um and try
to learn from that discussion rather
than trying to just get a validation
yeah your idea um and i think it's uh
but yeah if you're going to over index
anywhere and you say i'm glad you said
that over index i think another way of
thinking of it is all growth comes from
unlocking new or differentiated value in
a market
it's solving a need that people have in
a way that somebody else hasn't done yet
and usually that's delivering a product
that's better in a faster way or maybe
it's cheaper but it all comes down to
understanding the customer you can't
unlock that value and therefore you
can't grow a business without
understanding what their needs are
another book that i'd throw out is um
that's one of my favorites it's actually
not a marketing book i think it's more
of a product book or general innovation
but it's uh competing against luck
clayton christensen have you read that
one no but i will definitely gotta check
it out it's the one that i always
recommend um so clayton christensen and
a few other people
um i think it was just before this book
but it kind of comes together in this
book come up with the concept of jobs to
be done if you heard of that so it's
basically um i'm sure you've heard of
the saying of people don't buy a quarter
inch drill or they don't want a quarter
inch drill they want a quarter inch hole
in the wall
so it's like you don't buy a product you
buy the solution that the product brings
you
and so essentially it all comes down in
the methodology that's kind of around
this idea of jobs to be done in
consumers lives it all comes down to
understanding the customer there are you
know history is littered with businesses
that have failed because they were not
customer-centric enough probably almost
every single one
trying to think of an example that
wouldn't be
and i don't think there's a single
example of a business
that hasn't that has been too
customer-centric that has failed because
they're too focused on the customer
so it really all comes down to that and
that's kind of
why you know when i talk about marketing
or when i get brought on to kind of be
the marketing guy i'm like yeah i can
talk about marketing but usually most
people are thinking about advertising
marketing is about being more
customer-centric as a business and
that's where all growth comes from
i love that i really love that i will
read that book we'll put the uh
in the show notes moving on slightly so
you um you come from the church of
garyvee um the um and
i'm um
i'm an absolute worshiper um the uh the
content pyramid for anyone who hasn't
doesn't live their life by the content
pyramid change it
it's i think it's sensational
but he talks a lot about personal brand
and obviously he's the king of it so in
your experience of
um working with startups particularly
tell me about whether your opinion about
building personal ground as a founder or
with the team and whether people do it
too much or they do it badly just tell
me about your opinions about that well
there's definitely some people that do
it too much there's definitely some
people that do it badly but i think
there's many many many more
probably most the people listening that
don't do it enough
or just haven't kind of gotten over that
hump haven't gotten that nudge to be
like okay i just gotta get started
getting started with this
the way i think of it is it's an
investment
every hour that you spend
you know coming on a podcast or putting
out a post on linkedin or speaking at an
event or just building your network it's
an investment in whatever you want to do
in the future it's like cash for your
career because you can spend the value
that you've created in your personal
brand in whatever way you want to it
could be this business it could be the
next business it could be you want to be
a musician you want to be an artist you
want to start minting nfts
you get to own that
and so that's something that i think
took me too long even working for gary
for seven years in total it took me
actually i wasn't working for him
anymore i was in new york for my last
business and i had a meeting with him
and he's like you need to start posting
more on linkedin
once a day start posting on linkedin i
was like okay you know what this is the
nudge that i need and i started doing it
and it was probably four years ago and
like look it's not like i'm a
you know influencer on linkedin or
anything like that but it's definitely
brought me value and it's helped get
rival off the ground because i had a bit
bigger network i had a little bit more
awareness
and so i think you know whatever it is
you you need
i think so much comes down to
self-awareness in life as well as in
business right like knowing who you are
knowing what you're good at knowing what
you're not good at and so how that
translates to personal brand is
for me i like having conversations with
interesting people i like writing
um
i'm not as much kind of like the
video big stage big audience type of guy
and so my focus is i love doing things
like this just having a chat and there
happens to be a microphone here and i
love writing you know the conversations
that i have during the week i jot down
kind of little nuggets of what i find
interesting and then eventually i sit
down and type them up into linkedin
posts and i put them out that way that's
stuff i would do anyway
because it's interesting for me to learn
that stuff and i learn it by kind of
like documenting the process of the
conversations that i'm having week to
week so a lot of that comes from the
content pyramid and another thing that
gary used to say is document don't
create
and so that's kind of how i do it is
like i'll probably take a thought from
this conversation jot it down in my
notes and then at some point you'll see
it turn up as a linkedin post
so i guess i'm saying a couple different
things
know what you like and what you don't
like and lean into that in terms of how
you want to build a personal brand not
everybody needs a youtube show not
everybody needs a podcast there are
plenty of ways to get your story and
your thoughts out there
document what you do week to week
because there's probably an audience
that's going to find it interesting and
the most important thing
just get started getting started start
putting out a little bit it takes time
but every hour that you put in is an
investment that you're going to be able
to withdraw for whatever you want to in
the future down the line
i love that what is an example of a
really great
campaign that you've seen recently or
does it have to be a specific sort of
name and shame one way you think it what
is a typical mistake that people make
with campaigns and you see it kind of
quite often so it's interesting so the
role of marketing is to drive growth of
a brand in business right yeah so
actually from the outside
if you say good or what was the was the
word used disruptive yeah okay
disruptive fine
i think i heard what i wanted to hear
disruptive i can definitely comment on
but my point i think still stands and
and i think will be valuable for people
listening
marketing is a means to an end
right so much you know i spent 10 years
in the advertising agency world and one
of the things that i
very strongly disliked about it is
everybody got so excited about the ads
you know like oh it wasn't that amazing
wasn't that so cool like let's go submit
this for an award so much of that stuff
to me i'm much more interested in the
business what's the impact that it
actually had on the business and so you
can't know that from the outside so
there's so many people that pontificate
about like what good marketing is and
what good advertising is like it doesn't
matter if you don't know whether or not
it had an impact on the business
disruptive
you can speak to because that's kind of
more subjective and you can have an
opinion about that from the outside an
example of that just real quick you
fast.com
or fast.co who uh um it's a great story
of that they um
they were investing by um uh stripe they
raised 125 million uh in three years
they went from nothing to being worth a
billion um dom
the the tom the holy runs it um we dml
but he's a really great guy i really
like him
they
spent
125 million over the course of three 125
million they were burning 10 million a
month
they made 600 grand in revenue
now everyone's like these guys are
amazing the brand's incredible
they're growing they're so massive
they're putting their name on race cars
they've got chain smokers coming to
their events
amazing campaigns they did this thing
where like
they were showing how you know how fast
one click payment was and what they do
is they say they pick a picture of um
someone um a video of someone wearing
regular clothes
and then they would uh touch something
and then or something would be thrown at
them and then they'd be wearing fast
clothes it's really cool little stint
it's just great that's how fast
everything is
and um
but made no money
but just made didn't make any money so
like you know that's just an example
they have like an amazing campaign to
look on the outside and you're like this
is incredible i really enjoyed this it
didn't work out as a dating brand um
that i think everyone will know but i
know the guys so i don't want to name
them
and they do all these amazing pr stunts
and everyone's like they get tens of
thousands of likes on on linkedin yeah
yeah you know like it's just like
amazing from the outside but then
ultimately you're right like it means to
end if you're not winning customers
then what's the internet what's
interesting because i think whether
you're a big company or you've raised
big money from vcs
sometimes with bigger budgets you get a
little bit less efficient with how you
spend it and i'm being kind there
another way of saying that is i think
you can end up wasting a lot of money
yeah particularly in like these big
sponsorship deals or pr or
certain types of advertising where you
know you can quantify anything you can
find data about anything but sometimes
it's what you want to hear as opposed to
is it actually having the result that it
should we're doing some research that
we're releasing this week hopefully this
is the last week of april so hopefully
we're going to be putting it out this
week
um working with imperial college on what
what is it about successful challenger
brands what are they doing differently
with their marketing and so one of the
one of the trends that we're looking at
we call it the puffer fish challenger
which basically just means these tiny
brands are able to puff themselves up to
be so much bigger than their business
actually is because of how smart they
are with how they spend their media
so constraints drive creativity which i
think is really interesting right it's
the whole thing of like why twitter was
140 characters and people thought that
was cool because you had to get your
thought down in a certain kind of way
and so actually the budget constraints
of startups makes them spend their media
dollars in more efficient and then
eventually more effective ways
which i think is really interesting um
if you have not checked out
duolingo on tick tock
set aside an afternoon
and go have a good time with that it is
unbelievable so duolingo the language
app 141 days straight mate i'm in have
you have you seen it i'm on 141 days
straight on i'm do a lingo but have you
seen them on tick tock no i haven't okay
enjoy uh it's really good it just goes
to show
people will
people don't like advertising they like
good content
to me duolingo on tiktok is the best
tech talk account that i follow it just
happens to be a brand and i guess you
could call it advertising because it's
coming from a brand but when you see it
it does not check the box of what you're
gonna think traditional advertising
should be so that's one 100 disruptive i
have no idea how they actually get away
with that
um
coinbase
so in the us for the most recent super
bowl
coinbase did an ad that was just a
minute and keep in mind
a minute super bowl ad is like 10
million dollars or something just a qr
code bouncing across the screen
does it for a minute
talk about disruptive like it melted the
advertising industry because people were
like what are what are they doing you
know super bowl ads have celebrities and
they're these like glamorous stories and
like big stunts it was just
qr code
f1 drive to survive
very good yeah i mean one of my big
philosophies is i think modern marketing
is about thinking and acting more like a
media company than a marketer
because in a world where there are so
many brands pumping out so much content
competing for limited attention
the brands that win are the ones that
put out content or experiences events
that add value to the audience they're
trying to reach
what type of business
focuses on adding value to an audience
to media business their business is
attention they have to put out content
that people want to spend time with
otherwise they go out of business
and so another way of saying that is
like it's marketing that's much more
customer centric
and so f1 drive to survive is brilliant
they'd had such a hard time cracking the
us market and i don't know what the
numbers are but to what we were
discussing of good marketing actually
has an impact to grow the business
i know for sure they have grown
viewership which is their core business
in the us because of what they've done
with netflix the other example i uh
throughout there
michelin michelin tires created the
michelin fine dining guide
to find ways for more people to drive
they added value through creating
content like as a media company as a
publisher and i have no idea whether
it's still part of the same company but
you know this is not a new thing this
has been around for a hundred years if
you add value to the audience you're
trying to reach through content aka
marketing or through your and or through
your product like your business will
grow it's pretty basic but to everything
we were saying simple in theory heart
and execution i love that i love it you
blow my mind and i love it
okay so we've got a
where we talk about the startup sinbin
what is something that you want expelled
from the startup world
i don't know if it's expelled but i
think people need to be more honest and
transparent with what it's like to be an
entrepreneur particularly an early stage
entrepreneur this is hard
it's stressful it's complicated you feel
like you're doing a million things wrong
you are doing a million things wrong you
make so many mistakes there's so many
things that you want to do all over
again every once in a while something
good happens
you get to launch something somebody
says something nice somebody joins your
team and yet if you look at everybody's
instagram if you look at everybody's
it all seems like it's
you know rainbows and sunshine and
everything's going amazing and i get it
like that's human nature and it's also
brand you know you're putting yourself
out there you're putting out the best
version of yourself
but i think that there are so many
people who are struggling
and they're struggling in part because
when they look out in the world when
they look out in this little community
of entrepreneurs or linkedin or
instagram or whatever it is they only
see people that are succeeding and
they're like what's wrong with me
and so i think we need to be much more
honest and i'm trying
at the same time
you know i do put out the good news as
well of course i do but i'm trying to
balance that with just a little bit more
honesty and a little bit more
transparency and a little bit more
realism about how hard it is to be an
entrepreneur and i'm hoping that in
doing that and if we can get other
people to do that with us that it will
help some people out there because i
think there's so many people that burn
out
you know you don't have to have like a
mental breakdown it can just be like
your week's a lot harder because you
think you're doing it wrong and so i
think there needs to be more balance
story about just like how hard it is to
be an entrepreneur that's one of the
things i'd like to change i love that
but that's the thing i mean like you
know we just met and are just getting to
know each other but i think we have a
similar
share a similar
i don't know sentiment or philosophy
it's like
or curse maybe
it's about the climb rather than it is
the peak you know it's about the
progress not the destination so it's
like and that's a tough thing i think to
sometimes live with
for myself and also my wife i'm sure but
it's like cool you got there now what's
the next thing yeah i know as soon as
you get yourself a mountain you all you
do is think about where's the next
biggest one around yeah totally and and
i think that that can be really it can
be a blessing and a curse and i feel
like i'm wired this way kind of get the
sense that you're wired this way too
you gotta
leverage the benefits of that
and try to minimize the downsides of
that because that can be really
frustrating if you know you
that basically means that you're always
climbing that there's no kind of benefit
and one of the things that i've
definitely not done a good job of for
myself or from my teams as i built them
is kind of celebrating the successes
because i'm like okay what's on what's
on to the next thing one other thing
that i'll throw out there in terms of
what i think needs to get changed in the
entrepreneurial community and
conversations around this and this is
something i actually fundamentally
disagree with gary on and i think what
he says about it
does not help a lot of people
he said and i don't know if he still
says it but he had this thing of like
you're either an entrepreneur or you're
not
you either are
so suffocated by working for somebody
else
that you can't stand it and you have to
have your own company or you have to do
your own thing
or you're someone who can have a job and
that's fine but you're not an
entrepreneur i totally disagree with
that because i think it's a spectrum i
think you can be entrepreneurial all the
way to
gary who like literally could not work
for anybody ever
to someone who never wants to be an
entrepreneur and that's totally fine but
you can be a spectrum in between i think
myself if i play out my career 100 times
i don't know
probably less than 50 of them 35 41
of those end up with me starting my own
company plenty of them don't i don't
think that i would be like a corporate
guy
for 50 years but i would work in the
vaynermedias of this world i would work
in the 11 fs of this world and probably
be probably be pretty happy and it was
kind of this
convergence of
circumstance and luck and
timing and all these things that led to
me starting my own company but you don't
you don't
it's okay if you don't feel like you are
yes i absolutely need to you can try
being an entrepreneur and there's risk
in it of course so make sure that you
know what you're risking but like you
can go do it and then you can go get
another job and maybe you can come back
to it at some point
so i think this idea of like you have to
be an entrepreneur or you're not an
entrepreneur i don't think it's binary i
agree with you charlie and you can be an
entrepreneur in a business for example
our producer of the show rosie she
she
runs a business yeah within our business
yeah totally that she did that's great
for a lot of people that's probably
better
yeah
you're less worried about whether you're
gonna get your paycheck or have to pay
for someone else yeah yeah yeah but you
still get that buzz of building
something from scratch yeah you know so
i think there's something in that we had
a few people come on the show and i
think we should turn it into a segment
on here who share
their startup hacks
okay and i love my starter pack for
everyone is um
is gmass and automated emailing yeah
okay
so what like sending how does that work
for you so gmask is a native app this is
within gmail and it allows you to send
um a mass email to people i raised i
raised this is my i talk about this all
the time
i raised half a million pounds for my
business
using email marketing okay didn't know
any of these people at all never met any
of them before just wrote a marketing
campaign on email got someone else to do
the research and find the investors for
me um and then i got there that list i
wrote an email um did an a b test on it
and then set up the follow-ups within
gmail sent out it took me four hours of
work to raise half a million pounds wow
in terms of the print obviously i see
the pitching as well and some of those
pictures were horrific but something but
the point is i got there and i would and
i would never been able to contact 3 000
investors
any other way you know and that that was
just a hack you know now i teach i've
written an article about it um there's a
chapter in my book about it like i just
it's such a i think that is a people
don't understand the value of automated
email marketing and people like oh it
sounds a bit spammy
no it doesn't write a good email then
yeah yeah yeah think more about the copy
yeah make it more relevant what startup
hack do you have would you share
everything ultimately comes down to
what you can do
but also who you know i think the second
part of it is vastly undervalued it
doesn't get talked about like you go to
school
or you get a job everybody's so focused
on how do i learn to do that thing how
do i do that thing well how do i add
this thing to my cv how do i get this
degree learning that thing the topic
so much of life certainly business and
certainly a startup comes down to who
you know and i think that needs a lot
more attention a lot more time a lot
more diligence a lot more discipline uh
for anybody and so one hack is investing
in a personal crm
if you don't have that already so again
i wish i'd started this way earlier but
it's probably it was when i moved to
london so it was probably six or seven
years ago
um i started a spreadsheet all the
people that i meet
and so now i've got you know there's
like 200 people or something in there
and like some of them i'll never you
know cross paths with again but like
i've got it all in there and every once
in a while like this flight um back to
new york last week i'll just go through
the whole thing and be like oh i haven't
talked to that guy in a while i haven't
talked to that girl in a while let me
drop them a note and just see what's up
so valuable to actually keep track of
that for some people it can be linked in
but i'm sure if you're like me like
there's so much people connect with you
on linkedin and it's like not actually
clean data so invest in a personal crm
maybe there's tools out there last time
i looked there wasn't anything that
looked good just use a spreadsheet
the other thing is um i think time
management is one of the biggest factors
for professional success and i wouldn't
say undervalued because i think so many
books get written about it so much
so much of it gets talked about
i don't think you need anything
complicated
what i would recommend what i do for
myself is i block two hours every day
when i don't have meetings and when i
work on the most important things not
the most urgent things
and so for me that's in the morning
because that's when i'm most productive
but find the time make sure that you're
blocking the time during the week and
like literally do it because if you're
anything like me you do what your
calendar tells you to
so if somebody drops a meeting in your
calendar or if you put a meeting and
you're gonna go do what that thing is
the urgent always takes precedent over
the important unless you prioritize the
important so putting time in i call it
downtime put in down time in your
calendar every week ideally every day
when you work on the most important
things not the most urgent things
mate
my first one has blown my mind
the personal crm
i love that you must have
something like that at this point right
i love that i love that i
literally have this i mean i i've got a
pretty good memory so i'm just like i
just go into my personal rolodex in my
head and i sit down and i think to
myself put myself in a mind palace and i
think yeah who can help me solve that
problem and i would literally i will
literally sit down and close my eyes and
just try to remember everyone that i
know to just go through a list because
you're like but you probably remember
two percent of them i know i it
up and here's the thing it's like you
know and this is what i find so exciting
about
life about career about networking about
building a business is you never know
yeah you know i think of the job i've
i've never actually gotten a job from
like applying for one i've applied for
jobs but that's i've gotten them because
i know people yeah right
and
i think of the jobs that i've gotten or
the contracts that i've won and like
sometimes it's like that random person
you just like randomly took a call with
or met for a coffee or came on a podcast
for and like two years down the line
they're like oh by the way you should go
talk to this person and all of a sudden
you've got a new job yeah it's like you
never know you you just don't know great
this been amazing thanks so much
[Music]
you
Browse More Related Video
Growth marketing: Growth marketing course
Lecture 4 - Building Product, Talking to Users, and Growing (Adora Cheung)
The Ultimate Social Media Marketing Strategy
L’Homme qui Génère 472’302€ par JOUR (Interview Exclusive de Vincent Klingbeil)
MK101: Understanding your environment
25'000€ /mois en vendant des sites web, sans produire ! Analyse d'une agence à succès.
5.0 / 5 (0 votes)