Overtourism: How to be a responsible tourist - The Global Story podcast, BBC World Service

The Global Story
29 Jun 202417:13

Summary

TLDRIn 2024, tourism is set to reach unprecedented levels, with an estimated $11.1 trillion contribution to the global economy and 1.5 billion tourists. However, this boom brings overtourism, negatively impacting local communities and environments in destinations like Barcelona and Bali. The BBC's Rajan Datar discusses the challenges, including housing unaffordability for locals and environmental degradation. Solutions like dispersing tourism, promoting off-peak travel, and encouraging respectful, conscious tourism are explored, emphasizing the need for balance between the benefits of travel and its sustainability.

Takeaways

  • 🌐 2024 is predicted to be a record year for tourism, with an unprecedented number of travelers visiting global destinations.
  • 🏞️ Overtourism is causing significant issues in popular destinations like Barcelona, Paris, Hawaii, and Bali, impacting both residents and the environment.
  • 💸 The tourism industry is set to contribute a staggering $11.1 trillion to the global economy, highlighting its massive scale.
  • 🌍 Emerging markets, particularly India and China, are contributing to the surge in tourism, with increasing numbers of people traveling internationally.
  • 🏠 The rise in short-term rentals for tourists is pricing local residents out of the market in cities like Barcelona.
  • 🗣️ There is a growing resentment among locals in tourist-heavy areas, with some destinations experiencing protests due to overtourism.
  • 🏔️ Some destinations like Mount Fuji and Hallstatt are taking measures to control tourism, such as blocking popular photo spots or limiting visitor numbers.
  • 💧 Environmental concerns are prevalent, with issues like water scarcity and the displacement of local communities due to tourism development.
  • 🌡️ Climate change is influencing travel patterns, with tourists seeking 'cool-cation' destinations in response to extreme heat in traditionally popular areas.
  • 🏛️ Venice's introduction of an entry fee is an example of how some cities are trying to manage tourism through economic means and data collection.
  • 🧳 The tourism industry is advocating for 'high value, low volume' tourism, encouraging responsible travel that benefits local economies and cultures.

Q & A

  • What is the expected impact of tourism on the global economy in 2024 according to the script?

    -The tourism industry is expected to contribute $11.1 trillion to the global economy in 2024, as stated by the World Travel and Tourism Council.

  • How does the script describe the tourism industry's size globally?

    -The script describes tourism as the third largest industry in the world.

  • What is the approximate number of people employed in the tourism industry as mentioned in the script?

    -The script mentions that 330 million people are employed in the tourism industry.

  • According to the script, which countries have seen a significant increase in travel and why?

    -The script highlights that India and China have seen a significant increase in travel, with the Indian outbound market overtaking the Chinese market due to India's large population of 1.5 billion people.

  • What term is used in the script to describe the surge in travel after the pandemic?

    -The term used in the script to describe the surge in travel after the pandemic is 'revenge tourism'.

  • Which city is mentioned in the script as an example of a location overwhelmed by tourism?

    -Barcelona is mentioned as an example of a city overwhelmed by tourism, with locals experiencing issues such as rising short-term rentals and being priced out of their own city.

  • What is the term used in the script to describe the phenomenon where local economies do not benefit significantly from tourism revenue?

    -The term used in the script is 'leakage', which refers to the situation where much of the money made in tourist centers does not stay within the local economy.

  • How does the script suggest that Venice is trying to manage overtourism?

    -The script suggests that Venice is managing overtourism by introducing a five euro admission fee and collecting data to encourage visitors to travel during off-peak times.

  • What is the term used in the script to describe the trend of tourists seeking unique and less common destinations?

    -The term used in the script is 'dispersal', which refers to the idea of spreading tourism to less visited areas to alleviate pressure on popular destinations.

  • How does the script address the issue of environmental damage caused by tourism?

    -The script addresses environmental damage by mentioning issues like water scarcity in destinations like Bali and the impact of tourism on local farming communities, such as in Kenya.

  • What advice does the script offer to travelers regarding their impact on destinations they visit?

    -The script advises travelers to be more conscious of the host community, respect local culture, and be aware of their impact on the environment and local economies.

Outlines

00:00

🌍 Exploring Overtourism's Impact on Local Communities

Lucy Hockings introduces the topic of overtourism and its effects on local communities and the environment. She discusses the record-breaking tourism year of 2024, with an expected contribution of $11.1 trillion to the global economy and 1.5 billion tourists. The conversation with Rajan Datar, a BBC travelogue presenter, delves into the challenges faced by popular destinations like Barcelona, where the influx of tourists has led to issues such as rising rental prices, marginalization of locals, and environmental damage. Rajan shares his observations on the changes in travel patterns, particularly the impact of 'revenge tourism' post-pandemic and the significant growth in outbound tourism from India and China.

05:01

🏞️ The Struggle with Overtourism in Iconic Destinations

This segment focuses on the specific challenges faced by destinations like Barcelona, the Balearic Islands, and Hallstatt, where the surge in tourism has led to protests and a decline in the quality of life for locals. The discussion highlights the phenomenon of 'pricing out of locals' and the economic leakage where tourist revenue does not necessarily benefit the local community. It also touches on the environmental impact, such as water scarcity in destinations like Bali, and the role of social media in driving tourists to specific locations for the 'perfect' photo, leading to overcrowding and dissatisfaction among residents.

10:05

🌱 Addressing Overtourism: Strategies and Solutions

The conversation shifts to potential solutions for overtourism, including the introduction of measures like Venice's entry fee to manage tourist numbers and spread tourism across different seasons. Rajan and Lucy discuss the concept of 'high value, low volume' tourism, which encourages longer stays and more sustainable practices. They also consider the effectiveness of quotas and the idea of directing tourists to less visited but equally attractive destinations. The segment concludes with a discussion on the influence of climate change on travel patterns, leading to a shift towards 'cool-cationing' in northern and eastern Europe.

15:08

🧳 The Future of Travel: Balancing Enrichment and Sustainability

In the final paragraph, Lucy and Rajan reflect on their personal experiences as travelers and the broader implications of tourism. They acknowledge the enriching nature of travel but emphasize the need for responsible tourism practices. The discussion points to the importance of respecting host communities and being conscious of the environmental and social impacts of tourism. They encourage travelers to seek unique experiences that contribute positively to the places they visit, suggesting that the future of travel lies in finding a balance between personal enrichment and global sustainability.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡Overtourism

Overtourism refers to the excessive number of tourists in popular destinations, leading to negative consequences for local communities, infrastructure, and the environment. In the script, it highlights how places like Barcelona, Venice, and Hallstatt are 'crushed' by the overwhelming number of tourists, resulting in higher costs of living for locals and environmental damage.

💡Leakage

Leakage refers to the phenomenon where the economic benefits from tourism do not stay within the local economy but instead flow out to external businesses or other countries. The script explains how, in places like Hallstatt, much of the money generated by tourism doesn't benefit the local residents, as it goes to external investors or businesses.

💡Revenge Tourism

Revenge tourism describes the post-pandemic surge in travel, driven by people who had saved money and were eager to go on trips after being restricted during COVID-19. This concept was discussed in the script as a key factor behind the sharp increase in global tourism after the pandemic, with many people viewing travel as a right they were deprived of during lockdowns.

💡High Value, Low Volume

This is a tourism strategy aimed at attracting fewer tourists who spend more, instead of attracting mass tourism. The script describes how cities are now aiming for tourists who stay longer, use public transport, and support local economies, as opposed to large crowds of short-term visitors who don't significantly benefit the area.

💡Shoulder Season

The shoulder season refers to the time just before or after peak tourism periods, usually spring and autumn. In the script, this concept is mentioned as part of Venice's strategy to spread tourism more evenly throughout the year, reducing the pressure during peak seasons like summer.

💡Climate Change

Climate change is significantly altering tourism patterns, with rising temperatures and extreme weather events pushing people to seek cooler destinations. The script discusses how heat waves and wildfires in places like Greece are making southern Europe less attractive during the summer, and how 'cool-cationing' in northern regions is becoming more popular.

💡Cool-cationing

Cool-cationing is a new travel trend where tourists seek out cooler destinations to avoid extreme heat. This trend is becoming more prominent due to climate change, as mentioned in the script when discussing the growing popularity of destinations in northern Europe like Slovenia as alternatives to the increasingly hot southern Europe.

💡Selfie Culture

Selfie culture refers to the practice of taking photos of oneself at famous landmarks to share on social media, which can drive overtourism to specific spots. The script highlights how social media is causing overcrowding at iconic places like Venice’s Rialto Bridge and Mount Fuji, as tourists flock to get the perfect shot for Instagram or TikTok.

💡Quotas

Quotas are limits set on the number of tourists allowed in a certain location or attraction in order to reduce overcrowding. In the script, quotas are mentioned as a potential solution to overtourism in places like Venice, where controlling the flow of visitors can help manage the negative impacts of too many tourists at once.

💡Social Media

Social media is a major driver of modern travel trends, often encouraging people to visit specific destinations for 'money shots' seen on platforms like Instagram and TikTok. The script discusses how places like Mount Fuji have had to implement measures to block popular photo spots due to the disruptive behavior of tourists motivated by social media fame.

Highlights

2024 is predicted to break records for tourism, with an unprecedented number of travelers.

Destinations like Barcelona, Paris, Hawaii, and Bali are grappling with the negative effects of overtourism.

Overtourism can lead to environmental damage and negatively impact local residents' quality of life.

The World Travel and Tourism Council reports a contribution of $11.1 trillion to the global economy by tourism.

Tourism is the third largest industry globally, employing 330 million people.

Emerging markets like India and China are contributing significantly to the rise in global tourism.

The pandemic led to a surge in 'revenge tourism' as people saved money and later sought to travel.

Barcelona faces challenges with overtourism, including rising short-term rentals and local displacement.

The Balearic Islands have seen protests due to the strain of tourism on local communities.

In Hallstatt, Austria, only 20% of residents work in tourism, yet the town sees 10,000 guests a day during peak season.

Leakage is a term used to describe how much of the tourism revenue stays within the local economy.

Venice introduced a 5 euro admission fee to manage tourism and collect data to better distribute visitor numbers.

Climate change is influencing travel patterns, with 'cool-cationing' becoming a trend as southern Europe experiences extreme heat.

The tourism industry's current mantra is 'high value, low volume', seeking quality over quantity in tourists.

Quotas and pricing strategies are being considered to manage tourist numbers at popular attractions.

Selfie culture and social media influence where tourists go, leading to a desire for unique and uncharted destinations.

The discussion emphasizes the need for respectful and conscious travel, acknowledging the impact on host communities.

Transcripts

play00:02

Hello, I'm Lucy Hockings. From the BBC  World Service, this is The Global Story.

play00:09

2024 is expected to be a record-breaking year for  tourism, with more travellers going on holiday  

play00:15

than ever before. Barcelona, Paris, Hawaii,  or Bali, they're all beautiful destinations  

play00:21

that attract tourists from all over the world,  but they are also struggling with overtourism. 

play00:27

Too many visitors in one place can have a  negative impact on those who live there, and  

play00:32

it's also causing lasting environmental damage. So today we're asking how does this relentless  

play00:37

rise in global tourism impact the people who  actually live in these sought-after locations?

play00:51

And with me today is seasoned BBC TV  travelogue presenter Rajan Datar. You  

play00:56

have been travelling now, I think Rajan, for 20  years or more, can I call you a lifelong roamer? 

play01:03

You could try calling me a lifelong roamer, I  think I'd prefer to say, because roamer implies  

play01:08

that I'm just drifting, whereas I think I'm doing  it for work, well I know I'm doing it for work. 

play01:12

Hello and welcome to The Travel  Show from Bruges in Belgium. 

play01:17

This is Uzbekistan. Look at this, simply stunning. 

play01:23

So Raj, 2024 is going to be a huge year in  tourism. The numbers are expected to be massive.  

play01:28

What kind of numbers are we talking about though? We are talking about $11.1 trillion contributed  

play01:36

to the global economy by tourism, according to  the Tourism trade body, the World Travel and  

play01:41

Tourism Council. We're talking about an industry  that is the third largest in the world. In total,  

play01:46

330 million people are employed in  tourism and ultimately we're talking  

play01:50

about a billion and a half tourists. It's maybe markets that people aren't  

play01:55

expecting as well. I mean, India, China,  they're travelling extensively as well,  

play02:00

saving up for these holidays of a lifetime. So the big change was in the early part of  

play02:05

this century when the Chinese started exploring  the world, that has now been overtaken by the  

play02:11

Indian outbound market, which is incredible. We're  talking about a population of 1.5 billion people,  

play02:18

so that if even 0.5 per cent of them  travel or have the money to travel,  

play02:24

that is still a huge number of people coming  into the market, adding to, by the way, adding  

play02:29

to what is already a huge market. Was there a moment on a particular  

play02:33

trip where you thought I'm becoming  really concerned about overtourism? 

play02:38

Before the pandemic, tourism was reaching an  all-time high then, and there were murmurings,  

play02:46

actually, and louder than that from  certain destinations, that 'hang on,  

play02:51

we're being crushed here, we're being  overwhelmed by the amount of tourists'. 

play02:54

But I thought the pandemic also meant  that people weren't travelling as much. 

play02:57

Straight afterwards, they had what  they call 'revenge tourism'. People,  

play03:02

actually quite a lot of people certainly in the  West had saved up quite a lot of money during  

play03:06

Covid and they hadn't spent it on travel, they  hadn't spent it on anything and there was this  

play03:11

real suppressed feeling of 'I need to get out',  because for a lot of people tourism has become,  

play03:16

travel has become a virtual human right. What are some of the cities,  

play03:21

the destinations that you would say are being  a bit crushed at the moment by too many people? 

play03:26

Barcelona is the one that I really had personal  testimony of being there and seeing it change  

play03:33

and I went first before the Olympics. Since  then it's been relentless. Local people,  

play03:39

and we did a story for The  Travel Show that I work on,  

play03:42

we did a story about locals complaining quite  a time ago, it could 10, 12, 15 years ago,  

play03:47

we did that story because it was brewing. There  was a huge amount of resentment. The short-term  

play03:52

rentals were rising. In other words, they were  more and more available for the holiday maker, 

play03:57

which pushed up prices, which marginalised... If you're a young local person living in  

play04:02

Barcelona, you can't find a place to rent? You can't find a place. And this is the  

play04:05

common thread, by the way. It's  the edging out of local people. 

play04:08

Pricing out of locals. Pricing out precisely. 

play04:11

I mean there's been these big protests in  the Balearic Islands recently that has sort  

play04:16

of dominated some of the headlines and  really brought attention to this issue.

play04:28

What are some of the challenges they're facing  there? Because that's an industry where they  

play04:31

also need young people to work, they need waiting  staff, they need bar tending staff. Absolutely. 

play04:36

People to work in the hotels. I think there was a story on the BBC  

play04:39

website not too long ago about for example a chef  who worked in a local hotel or restaurant who was,  

play04:45

or is forced to sleep in his car. I call  it feeling like extras in your own movie,  

play04:51

you know it's not, it's suddenly a city  that you love or an area that you love  

play04:56

is completely taken over and obviously local  customers get squashed because tourists want  

play05:01

their thing. They want what they're used  to, a nice latte, food wise, probably,  

play05:05

you know, there's some demanding tastes from  tourists and if they can afford it, guess what,  

play05:10

there'll be a restaurant for them there. It's sort of this notion of international  

play05:13

good taste, isn't it, that exists everywhere now,  that can kind of muscle out things that are local. 

play05:19

What about Austria? You had, I  know, an amazing trip to Hallstatt. 

play05:23

It's a little town, 800 residents.  It's called a beautiful lake. I mean  

play05:27

it's picture postcard perfect. It's  just beautiful. 800 residents and they  

play05:32

have it during peak season 10,000 guests a day. Only 20 per cent of people who live there actually  

play05:38

work in tourism there and so therefore they're not  all directly benefiting. There's one particular  

play05:44

scenic spot where you can get such a perfect  selfie with the lake in the background that  

play05:50

the locals or the mayor in fact tried to block  it for a while. That policy, it's catching, that  

play05:55

policy was taken up on Mount Fuji not so long ago,  where they did the same thing, they stopped people  

play06:01

from taking pictures of Mount Fuji from just in  front of a convenience store because it was... 

play06:06

This is Fujikawaguchiko Very well said, yes. 

play06:10

Our correspondent Shaimaa  Khalil actually went there.

play06:13

You've probably seen this on your Instagram or  TikTok. This is the famous Mount Fuji Lawson,  

play06:18

the social media money shot for millions of  visitors, but it's not going to be around for  

play06:22

long. Residents here in Fujikawaguchiko  are fed up with tourists behaving badly,  

play06:27

all to get the perfect shot of the  convenience store with a snow-capped  

play06:31

volcano. As a desperate measure, the local  authorities are building a barrier to block  

play06:37

the view. You can get a picture of Mount Fuji  from many places but social media has become  

play06:43

a big pull for this particular spot. Well if I didn't have social media I  

play06:48

wouldn't come here I wouldn't even  know that it existed this place.

play06:51

So that's obviously been a big problem in Japan  as well for people who live near Mount Fuji but  

play06:57

in Hallstatt, how much of the money made  in Hallstatt goes back into the community? 

play07:01

Not very much money in some of these places stays  in those places. The local authorities will say,  

play07:07

'yes, we're reinvesting money that we get from  parking or whatever into local facilities and  

play07:10

resources', but actually a lot of it isn't.  That's called leakage, by the way, where a  

play07:15

lot of the money that is made in these tourist  centres actually doesn't stay within the economy. 

play07:22

Can I ask you about the environmental  damage that is done to some of these places,  

play07:26

like somewhere like Bali? Yeah. 

play07:28

There's really big issues around water scarcity. In many destinations, water is a big issue. I  

play07:35

mean, I've talked to somebody who's in Kenya where  quite often you'll get tourists in luxury hotels  

play07:41

pretty well competing with locals for water  when there is scarcity. Guess who wins, the  

play07:46

luxury hotels. Local farmers in Kenya and in other  places are very suspicious of tourism because it  

play07:52

actually can get in the way of them doing their  job. And sometimes, like in Kenya, where you have  

play07:57

safari tourism, it actually means that some  farmers were evicted from their own farms so  

play08:01

the land could be used for roaming animals. It's fair to say that there are some places  

play08:06

that are doing well. They have come up  with some solutions and they're working. 

play08:10

There are two sides to this. One is what  the local municipality does. The other  

play08:15

one is what we can do as individuals. So  let's just start with what places can do. 

play08:20

So in Venice, for example, they have  introduced this five euro admission fee. 

play08:26

It's not much five euro. It's not much five euro. And I  

play08:28

did talk to the deputy mayor in charge of tourism  and he said 'well the point isn't actually this  

play08:33

at this stage to charge people and make money out  of it and dissuade them'. It's more for them to  

play08:39

realise when the peak days are and when to avoid  it. They're collecting data by doing this because  

play08:43

you have to actually go online and do this. And Raj, with that data that they're collecting  

play08:47

in Venice, is the idea they'll then  encourage people to come midweek? 

play08:51

Exactly that. And it spreads the burden. 

play08:53

Not just midweek, but in what  they call the shoulder season. 

play08:56

Exactly. So spring and autumn for  

play08:58

us in the West. And that is another way of trying  to shift the weight of tourism. There is an issue  

play09:04

with that, which I feel that you're about to come  to, which is school holidays. And that, obviously,  

play09:11

unless that changes, unless most of the West  certainly stops having school holidays in July  

play09:17

and August, at about the same time, then we're  always going to get that crush around that time. 

play09:21

What about the move to encourage people to  go to similar destinations that are nearby? 

play09:26

We went to Slovenia, and we went to a place called  Bohinj, and there, it's quite near Lake Bled,  

play09:33

which is near Ljubljana, which is coming  there at the moment It's actually building up. 

play09:38

I mean we I went in April and there are  quite heavy crowds there. So he's worried  

play09:44

about even if there's spillover from Lake  Bled or even from places, other places,  

play09:49

that they're going to get crushed as well.  So yes, you can definitely spread the love,  

play09:54

you can have dispersal, but it's not necessarily  going to be the answer either if the next place  

play09:59

along also then suffers in the same way. And I guess Raj that climate change is  

play10:05

also having an impact on where people  are choosing to go? Southern Europe at  

play10:09

the moment in the summer particularly is so hot. In Greece, in Greek islands as well, in Italy in  

play10:16

Rome and in other destinations you had people  actually being evicted not evicted but being  

play10:24

evacuated from the islands that they were staying  in, for example Rhodes, because of wildfires,  

play10:30

because of actual danger to people. People were,  you know, the heat levels are getting horrendously  

play10:37

extreme, which means that people are now looking  to do what's called 'cool-cationing', which means  

play10:44

they're going to more, to cooler northern climes,  Slovenia is one example, northern Europe again.  

play10:51

And that is becoming more attractive. And this  is not going to go away. This is climate change.  

play10:57

And so this is going to completely shift the  map of where people will go in the future. 

play11:02

Raj, what kind of travellers do these cities  want? Is it the sort of luxury traveller, the  

play11:08

high spending traveller, and they want backpackers  to stay away? How does that kind of formula work? 

play11:15

Well, the mantra is high value, low volume, that's  the big mantra in the tourism industry right now.  

play11:21

Now, what does that mean? I think they want it  to mean yes, stays more than two or three nights.  

play11:28

Yes, maybe takes public transport to come in.  Yes, eats locally. Yes, respects local culture. 

play11:36

I mean, you're describing  quite a few backpackers here. 

play11:38

Yeah. Well, here's the thing. Interestingly, I  talked to a professor of tourism quite recently,  

play11:43

and he said, 'you know what?' He did a whole  survey, and I think it was in Cyprus. 'The  

play11:49

budget traveller, the backpacker, actually, in so  many ways, make sure that there is less leakage,  

play11:55

the term I used before, that most of the  money stays within the country and the local  

play11:59

economy because they will stay in cheaper  places, they will take public transport,  

play12:03

they will stay longer and they will not  use up the environment in such a way or  

play12:09

they will not destroy the environment in the  way that sometimes a luxury traveller can do'. 

play12:14

Did quotas work? If you've got an attraction as opposed  

play12:18

to an actual destination then you can impose  quotas much more easily. Yes, quotas can work  

play12:24

and they will be more and more common I think. I think going back to your thing about solutions,  

play12:30

raising prices on things, on attractions can  probably be one technique. I mean there's  

play12:35

something that that makes me feel a bit bad about  that because it means that people, you know... 

play12:39

It's not accessible for some people. Yeah, it's not accessible for people and so  

play12:41

it's outpriced. They're talking about 5,000  euro private tours of the Acropolis now. Now  

play12:48

great if you can afford it, but if you've come  all the way from, I don't know, Japan wherever  

play12:53

and you're not on a huge budget and suddenly you  realise you can't go there because of the crowds  

play12:58

and you haven't got 5,000 euros. I'm not sure if that's good. 

play13:01

Are we reaching peak tourism? There's no reason why it shouldn't  

play13:06

go up. The issue is more whether they start taking  measures to limit the number of people travelling,  

play13:17

certainly to certain destinations. I  think people anyway with selfie culture,  

play13:21

and we haven't really talked about that, but it's  so important selfie culture that with that people,  

play13:26

especially young people, are  looking to go to new places. 

play13:28

I was in Venice recently and the Rialto  Bridge you had to queue for quite some  

play13:32

time. Do you think that the selfie culture,  there can almost be an adverse reaction to  

play13:37

it as well? People are like the Rialto  Bridge, 'I've seen that too many times'. 

play13:41

I think that's definitely the case. I think that's  particularly true of younger travellers. They will  

play13:45

want something that's different to what their  mates have done, you know you've seen one picture  

play13:50

of Rialto Bridge and the view and with you on it  and so what, it's like people aren't going to be  

play13:56

massively impressed. It slightly reminds me of  back in the day when I was a kid and they used  

play14:00

to have Super 8 movies where they would show  you know 'guess what they went to Austria,  

play14:04

they went to the Alps and they went to...' and  people have to crowd round and watch it. But then  

play14:07

travel was much much rarer, today If everyone's  travelling, you've got to get the unique shot. 

play14:13

It's the bragging rights to something. It's the bragging rights, absolutely. I mean,  

play14:16

I went to Uzbekistan recently. I think  that will become a big tourist place  

play14:20

soon because it's uncharted territory. It's  somewhere where people haven't been before. 

play14:24

And this idea of dispersal that you've talked  about, we might be looking at dispersal literally  

play14:29

from Western Europe all the way across to the  Stans or to Central Europe and the Caucasus. 

play14:34

I can see that happening. Definitely, definitely,  yep, Northern Europe, Eastern Europe, yep, the  

play14:39

Stans, I mean, these places have got magnificent  histories and culture and architecture. Yes,  

play14:46

go there, and they've got, I think, would love you  to be there. The problem is, here's the problem,  

play14:51

suppose you've come from a long way away, you've  spent ages saving up this money for this trip of  

play14:56

a lifetime. You're there for two weeks,  you come to Europe, you've got a Schengen  

play14:59

visa maybe. Of course you're going to go to  the Eiffel Tower. Of course you want to see  

play15:03

the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Of course you want  to see Venice. And who are we to stop them? 

play15:07

And who are we to stop them? That brings me, I  think, to our final thought. You and I have both  

play15:12

travelled a lot. It would be hypocritical of us  to say, at any point, you know, you can't travel.  

play15:19

It is the most enriching, wonderful, amazing  experience. It's managing it going forward,  

play15:25

that seems to be the big challenge. I'd be a hypocrite if I said to younger  

play15:30

people who haven't travelled much anywhere in  the world or to people in emerging economies  

play15:36

who only now can afford to travel, 'look,  don't travel because you're killing the world,  

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you're ruining the earth', how can I say that? I mean, even for me, Raj, I'm from the bottom  

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of the world, from New Zealand. We are raised to  believe that you must go out and see the rest of  

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the world. It's part of growing up. It's part of  living your life. It's a cultural expectation. 

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And I'm not going to deny that. It's absolutely  true. It is fantastic. Travelling the world is  

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brilliant for all the obvious reasons. You grow  as a person. It has so many different beneficial  

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effects on people, on culture, on relations  between different cultures and, you know,  

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I wouldn't knock it. So I suppose what I would  say is please travel, please travel. But just  

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watch how you travel, the way you travel. Just  be slightly more conscious of the host community. 

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It's to have respect. Much  more respect. You are a guest.  

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You're not entitled to this. You're a guest. But do travel. It is life changing. You just  

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don't meet anyone who wouldn't say 'it changed my  life, my perspective, so many things from travel'. 

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And we both are some of the  luckiest people on the planet. 

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Indeed. Raj, it's been great  to have you. Thank you so much. 

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Great to be here with you, Lucy. Thank you very  much for having me and good luck on your next  

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journey. And you know what to do now. I do. I'll have my checklist. 

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Thank you for watching. If you want  more episodes of The Global Story,  

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you can find us wherever you get your podcasts.  Subscribe to make sure you never miss an episode  

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and do let us know what you think about today's  episode in the comments section below. Goodbye.

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Related Tags
OvertourismTravel ImpactLocal CommunitiesEnvironmental DamageTourism TrendsCultural ExchangeEconomic BoostDestination StrugglesSustainable TravelGlobal Economy