Supercommunicators with journalist Charles Duhigg | A Bit of Optimism Podcast
Summary
TLDRこのスクリプトは、コミュニケーションの重要性と、どのようにして効果的なコミュニケーターになるかについて深く掘り下げています。話者は、本を通じて読者に情報を与えるのではなく、読者と一緒に旅を共有し、結論に達するプロセスに導く方法を好むと語ります。また、コミュニケーションの真の価値は、物語の中間で重要な出来事が起こるという視点も紹介されています。さらに、話者は、自己評価が低かったときに他人とつながり、深く共感することで、より強固なコミュニケーションの絆を築くことができると語ります。また、コミュニケーション能力は学び得られるスキルであり、自己の内面を反映し続けることが肝心だと強調しています。最後に、彼は自分の書籍を通じて、人々が自分自身に真实を語り合うように導き、社会的な対話を通じてより深い相互理解を築くことを目指していると述べています。
Takeaways
- 📚 著者の本はそれぞれ異なっている点が魅力的であり、読者を独自の旅に招待するスタイルが好まれる。
- 🗣️ コミュニケーションのスキルは学び得るものであり、誰もが超コミュニケーターになる可能性がある。
- 🧠 私たちの脳はコミュニケーションのために進化しており、他人とのバイオロジカル接続を確立することが肝要だ。
- 🤝 超コミュニケーターは他人と会話に誘導し、状況に応じて適切な会話を展開する能力を持ち、相手の感情に共感する。
- 🌟 真実性と-authenticity-がコミュニケーションにおいて極めて重要で、偽りは他人にすぐに見抜かれる。
- 📈 成功するためには、会話を的確に進め、相手の感情や状況に応じて適切な対話を提供する必要がある。
- 📉 会話を的外れにしてしまうと、相手との接続が失われる。会話を的確に進めるためには、相手の感情や状況を理解し、それに合わせる必要がある。
- 💡 会話には実用的な会話、感情的な会話、社会的会話など、複数の会話が含まれており、それぞれの会話に応じて適切に対応することが肝要。
- 📝 著者は自分の書く楽しさを再発見し、それを通じて読者にも楽しんでもらいたいと考えている。
- 🌐 著者の希望は、本を通じて人々が自分自身や異なる人々との会話を改善し、より人間的になることができるようになること。
- 🎓 学んだ教訓を振り返り、次に適用する。失敗を恐れずに、経験から学び、コミュニケーション能力を向上させていく。
Q & A
どのような点を作者は自分の本が他とは異なる点として挙げていますか?
-作者は自分の本が他とは異なる点として、他の作家たちが同じような本を書くのに対して、自分の本はそれぞれ異なっていることを挙げています。また、読者に対してエキスパートとしてではなく、共に旅をともにしているガイドとして振る舞う姿勢も特徴の一つだと述べています。
物語を伝える際に重要なポイントは何ですか?
-物語を伝える際に重要なポイントは物語の冒頭と終わりではなく、中盤です。多くの人が中盤を無視する傾向にあり、重要な出来事が起こる部分なのに注意を払わない傾向があります。
スーパーコミュニケーターとは何ですか?
-スーパーコミュニケーターとは、コミュニケーションについて深く考え、他人を会話に招待し、最も不確実な状況下でもつながりを築く能力を持ち、科学者たちが言う「神経の同調」を実現する能力を持つ人々です。
コミュニケーションの目標は何ですか?
-コミュニケーションの目標は、自分の考えや感情を相手が理解し、体験できるように伝えることです。そのために、伝える側と受ける側の脳の波動が似合い合いとなって生物学的な接続を形成することが重要です。
ジム・ローラの物語から学べる教訓は何ですか?
-ジム・ローラの物語から学べる教訓は、相手の状況に合わせ、自分も同じような感情状態になる「マッチング原則」の大切さです。また、本当の自己をさらけ出し、本物の自己を表現することが信頼とコネクションを築く鍵になることも学べます。
なぜ人々は他人と会話するのが難しく感じるのでしょうか?
-人々は他人と会話するのが難しく感じる理由の1つは、現代社会で長い間進化してきた本能的なコミュニケーションスキルを忘れているからです。また、他人と対話するときに必要な真実の共有や感情的なサポートを提供することができないという問題もあります。
コミュニケーションのスキルはどのようにして身につけることができますか?
-コミュニケーションのスキルは学び得るものであり、生まれながらにしてスーパーコミュニケーターになることはありません。過去の映像を観ると、Steve JobsやRonald Reaganのように優れたコミュニケーターとされる人々も初めは不器用で、しかし彼らは自己改善のために努力し、学び続けることでスキルを身につけました。
なぜ人々は他人と会話することが重要なのですか?
-人々が他人と会話することが重要なのは、コミュニケーションは人間の超能力であり、家族や社会を形成し、種を維持するためです。また、他人と会話することで友情やコミュニティを形成し、相互に危険を監視し合ったり、助け合い合うことができます。
本書を書くことで作者はどのように変わりましたか?
-本書を書くことで作者は、より多くの深い質問を投げかけることを学び、人々との会話の中でより深く耳を傾けることになりました。また、会話が何種類かに分かれることを理解し、状況に応じて適切な種類の会話に応じることができました。
作者が書くのが楽しいと感じたのはなぜですか?
-作者が書くのが楽しいと感じたのは、自分が書くことで驚くような結果が生まれることであり、それが自分の書くことを愛する原動力を再燃させたからです。また、自分が書くことで他人にインスピレーションを与えることができるという目的を持っていたことも理由です。
本書を読むことで得られるものは何ですか?
-本書を読むことで得られるものは、コミュニケーションスキルの向上だけでなく、他人との対話を通じて人間性を深めることができるという視点です。また、異なる人々と対話し、共感し合う方法を学ぶことができ、社会全体のコミュニケーション向上に貢献することができます。
Outlines
📚 書籍の独自性とコミュニケーションの重要性
第1段落では、著者が本を書く際のアプローチとその意義について語っています。著者は自分の本が他の本と異なる点で魅力的だと述べ、また、読者や聴衆を導くガイドとしての姿勢を強調しています。物語の重要な部分は真ん中であり、多くの人がそれを無視する傾向にあると指摘し、コミュニケーション能力は学び得られるスキルであると結論づける。
🧠 超コミュニケーターの定義とコミュニケーションの生物学
第2段落では、超コミュニケーターの概念と、コミュニケーションが生物学的な結合を形成する理由について説明しています。コミュニケーションの目標は相手に自分の考えや感情を理解してもらうことであり、そのためには脳波の類似性や神経的な調和(ニューラルエントラインメント)が必要とされています。
🕵️♂️ 諜報員の物語とコミュニケーションの原則
第3段落では、CIA職員のジム・ローラーの経験から学んだコミュニケーションの原則について語ります。ジムは、自分の失敗を認め、諦めることによって、意図しない結果を引き起こしました。それは「マッチング原則」と呼ばれるコミュニケーション手法と、真実を伝えることが重要であることを示しています。
🗣️ コミュニケーションの種類と深い質問の力
第4段落では、コミュニケーションを改善する方法について説明しています。著者は、深い質問を投げかけることや、会話の種類に応じて適切な対話を求めることに重点を置いています。また、コミュニケーションはスクリプトに縛られることなく、柔軟性が必要であると強調しています。
🤔 自己反思とコミュニケーションの楽しさ
第5段落では、著者が自分の書くことに対する愛を再発見した瞬間と、それが彼のプロフェッショナルなキャリアに与える影響について話しています。彼は、書くことが楽しいと感じることの重要性と、外部の結果に依存しないで自分の中から楽しむことの大切さを強調しています。
🤝 対話の楽しさとポジティブな別れ
第6段落では、対話の楽しさと、ポジティブな別れ方について語ります。著者は、コミュニケーションが人間の強みであり、それが私たちが社会を形成し、仲間と結束する能力を与える理由だと結論づけています。また、ポジティブな別れを通じて、リスナーが更なるオプティミスムを感じられるようにと願っています。
Mindmap
Keywords
💡コミュニケーション
💡ガイド
💡物語
💡
💡深く問いかけ
💡自己启示
💡ネURAL ENTRAINMENT
💡本物性
💡対話の種類
💡マッチング原則
💡楽しむ
Highlights
The author values the uniqueness of each book, preferring a diverse range of topics rather than writing similar books.
The author aims to guide readers on a journey rather than presenting as an expert with all the answers.
The importance of the middle of a story is emphasized, where much of the significant action occurs, contrary to the focus on just the beginning and end.
The author's approach to writing involves presenting evidence to lead the audience to conclusions, fostering a sense of discovery.
The concept of 'super communicators' is introduced, highlighting the ability to connect with others and make them feel heard.
Communication is presented as a learnable skill, not an innate talent, drawing on evidence from neuroimaging and data analytics.
The author shares a personal anecdote about struggling with communication as a manager and learning from the experience.
The story of Jim Lawler, a CIA officer, demonstrates the power of authenticity and matching the emotional state of the person you're communicating with.
The 'matching principle' is discussed as a key element in effective communication, allowing for deeper connections.
Authenticity in communication is crucial; people can detect inauthenticity, which can hinder connection.
The author's improvement in communication skills post-book writing is attributed to asking deeper questions and listening more closely.
Differentiating between practical, emotional, and social conversations helps in aligning the type of conversation to the situation.
The author suggests labeling the type of conversation to ensure both parties are on the same page and can connect more effectively.
The aspiration for the book 'Super Communicators' is to not only help individuals improve their lives but also to foster a culture of understanding and connecting with diverse perspectives.
The author shares a personal story about writing a piece for the New Yorker that, despite not being popular, brought them immense joy and satisfaction.
The importance of writing for the joy of it and not solely for external validation is emphasized as a key to happiness and fulfillment.
The author discusses the challenge of staying true to one's passion and the strategies to remind oneself of their 'true north' in the face of adversity.
Transcripts
one of the things that I like about you
is your books are different oh thanks
you know it's like sometimes writers
they they're they write like here's a
book and here's another book that's kind
of like the other book you know and I I
like that your books are different I
mean the whole point of I think a good
book and I think it's what what's so
nice about your work as well which is
you're not like I'm the expert let me
tell you you're like I'm on this journey
want to come yeah and that's joyous to
read bringing people on the journey is
actually the most important part of
teaching them the idea yeah right we I
think when people ask me for advice on
storytelling um what I usually say is a
lot of people focus on the beginning and
the end of the story yeah but the middle
is where everything important happens
yeah and a lot of people just skip over
it I I I've always thought of myself I
never want to be perceived as the expert
I want to be perceived as the guide yeah
you know and my when I write and when I
speak I'm very particular that I want to
prevent present enough evidence that my
audience or my reader will come to the
conclusion right before I do so that
when there's no Tada there's no like
wait for it wait for it wait for it look
how smart I am there's none of that what
I want is when I provide this conclusion
I'm like and here it is that the
audience is going yeah yeah that makes
yeah yeah I saw that yeah that seems
inev that means yeah that seems to make
sense y yeah that's what I want their
attitude to be it's kind of like yeah of
course you know and then they carry it
away then they carry it away they
conclusion not mine they just came on
the they came on The Learning Journey
with me it's I wish that there was um
yeah I wish that there was
more one of the reasons I I wrote super
communicators was because I felt like we
were living through this time when
people had forgotten how to communicate
with each other and something else
happened which is that in 2017 um I
guess it was in 2016 the New York Times
made me a manager I went from being a
reporter to a manager and I was terrible
at it like like fantastically bad and I
went into it and I was like oh my God
I'm going to be so good at this like
like I've had bosses my whole life and I
got an MBA from Harvard I was like I'm
gonna I'm gonna kill this and I was ter
like and the thing that would made me
crazy was that I was really good at the
logistics part like I could like plan
everything out and do all the diagrams
it was the communication part that I
sucked at yeah and so badly that like I
would make other people angry without
even understanding why they were angry
and like get frustrated I was terrible
at it and but then also was at the same
time that Trump got elected right and
I'm looking around and I'm thinking like
he's a great communicator he is a very
good communicator but I looked at all
these other people just screaming at
each other right not wanting to have a
dialogue at all
and and what one of the things that I
thought was like we've sort of Forgotten
there's some lessons here that we've
forgotten about how to can we learn is
it learnable absolutely ABS I mean the
evidence is like
like completely clear on this nobody is
born as a great communicator nobody's
born as a super Communicator there is no
personality type that is more likely to
be a super Communicator it's literally
all just learned skills it's fun I've
seen old footage of Steve Jobs and old
footage of Ronald Reagan both considered
great communicators um and they sucked
they're terrible they sucked it's
shocking by any standard they sucked
yeah bumbling incoherent sucked and so
what so what happened there like why
let's take as a given that like actually
our brains have evolved to communicate
right communication is human superpower
that is why we have succeeded as a
species allows us to form families and
societies so so what happened to those
Two Fellas and and a bunch of other
people is that instead of sucking and
being like oh gosh I don't know why that
didn't go well they sat down and they
thought hard about how can I make it go
better and there are these very obvious
lessons that once you start looking for
them are apparent to you and and in the
last decade science has gotten so good
we're kind of living through this golden
age of understanding communication
because of advances in neuroimaging and
data analytics so now it's easier for us
to describe those ideas but the truth of
the matter is all of us are prepared to
be super communicators it's just that
some people don't think about it so
Define super Communicator first of all
let's start there so the best way to is
um if you're having a bad day M and you
know that there's one person if you call
them they're going to make you feel
better MH who is that person my sister
that person for you is a super
communicator and my guess is your sister
is actually a super Communicator to many
people yeah she just knows how to make
you feel listen to she knows what you
need she knows how to like she knows how
to have a conversation you're a super
Communicator right you you establish a
flow with everyone who who comes on your
podcast so a super Communicator is
someone who has thought deeply about how
to communicate and as a result they have
the ability to invite others into the
conversation they have the ability to to
break through and make a connection even
in the most unlikely of situations and
most importantly they have the ability
and they recognize the importance of
achieving what scientists refer to as
neural entrainment right where right now
in this conversation if we had enough
machines we would see that our our
pupils are actually dilating at the same
rate and our heart rates are starting to
match each other and our breath rates
and the electrical impulses on our skin
and most importantly if we could see
inside our brains a deep mirroring it's
a deep mirroring inside our brains we
would see that our brain waves started
to look similar our brain activity
started to look similar that's what
communication bi biological connection
like we have a connection it's literally
biological connection wow that's cool
and if you think about it that makes
sense because the goal of communication
is I have an idea or I have a feeling
and I want you to understand it I want
you to experience it right so if our
brains become aligned you're actually
experiencing what I'm what I'm
describing and vice versa so tell a
story uh of what you consider a great
communicator or what they do so um so
one of the stories from the book um so
so one of the stories from the book is
uh the story about this guy Jim Lawler
who is a CIA officer and he had just
gotten hired as a CI officer and they
send him over to Europe and they were
like go recruit overseas assets right
like go find spies basically get them to
work for the CIA and he's terrible at it
like he like he like he told me all
these stories like he would go to all
these bars and like try and like chat up
at tachet and they'd be like I don't
want anything to do with you there's
this one guy he finally made friends
with this one guy from the Chinese
Embassy and like he takes him to lunch
like seven or eight times and eventually
he's like hey would you consider you
know telling me some of the gossip you
here and I could pay you for that and
the guy says you know actually my family
is very wealthy and they kill people in
my country for doing that let's not meet
again so he's just terrible at this it
didn't even make a real friend no he
didn't even make a real
so he he's at this point when like it's
been a year and basically his bosses are
like we think you're going to get fired
you just you're just bad at this and
this woman comes into town who works for
the foreign Ministry of her home country
back in the Middle East yeah um and he
never told me which country but it it'll
be pretty obvious which one it is and so
he goes and he introduces himself as an
oil Speculator he like bumps into a
restaurant and they develop a
relationship and he's taking her out to
lunch and he's trying to recruit her and
eventually he says like actually I don't
work for an oil company I work for the
CIA you consider helping us out because
she hated what was going on in her home
country it just been taken over by
revolu um uh Islamic revolutionaries and
religious revolutionaries she was a
woman she in approximately 1979 in yeah
exactly exactly you're guessing which
country that is and and she's opposed to
the regime and he's like we're we
believe in the same thing why will you
help us out and she just she starts
crying and she freaks out she's like I
no I'm absolutely not going to do this
I'm going to get killed for even knowing
you so he go go to his bosses and he'
already told them that he was trying to
recruit her and they're like no we told
Washington DC you did this we told
Washington DC you had your first spy if
you don't deliver her you're gonna get
fired and so Jim Jim is like I'm screwed
like he doesn't know what to do and so
he basically asks this woman fattima to
have one more meal with him and he goes
in and he has all these ideas of how to
and like he gets to the meal and he's
like this is just not going to work like
I cannot convince this person to take a
suicidal risk right
so she's in kind of down because she's
about to go back to her home country and
she's kind of disappointed in herself
and and Jim's trying to like cheer her
up and make her feel better and then
after a while like it's just not working
and she's not really like they're not
connecting and when dessert comes he
like he's like I'm GNA be totally honest
with you like I'm about to get fired and
the reason I'm about to get fired is I
am really bad at this job like like
everyone else in my class they had this
like like confidence or this something
that I don't have and I'm not I'm not
even going to try and get you to work
for me I just I you've been honest with
me I want to be honest with you like I
feel terrible about myself like you just
keep on saying you're disappointed in
yourself I I understand that cuz I am so
disappointed in myself I've wanted this
job my whole life yeah and I've screwed
it up and she listens to him and she
starts crying and he reaches over and
he's like I'm sorry I did not mean to
make you cry and she goes no no I think
I can do this
and he's like and he was so freaked out
he was like he actually said wait wait
no no no you don't have to do anything I
don't want you like like he's so
panicked and she goes no no I think you
I think what you said before that we
both want the same thing I think you're
right I I can help you and she goes to a
safe house the next day she gets all
this training and like covert
Communications for the next 20 years
she's the best source in the Middle East
wow and when I asked Jim why and Jim
became one of the best Recruiters in the
CIA he ended up training other officers
how to to do this when I asked him like
what's the secret you train you teach
people what he said
was you have to match people where
they're at yeah Fatima was upset and I
was trying to cheer her up yeah or
Fatima was scared and I was trying to
convince her she shouldn't be scared
yeah once I just gave up and said like
look you're disappointed in yourself and
I'm disappointed in myself like that's
when she could hear me for the first
time yeah and within within the
literature this is known as the matching
principle right the these different
kinds of conversations and that you have
to match the kind of conversation that's
happening in order to
connect but a lot of it comes down to
listening to those instincts that that
probably we evolved over millions of
years that are are sometimes hard to
listen to in contemporary Society but
you know that if somebody is is feeling
something that if you feel it with them
you feel more connected but he was
honest right yes that's a huge part of
it it has to be authentic and that's
part of the problem which is you
know how long can you fake these things
can super communicators fake these
things
not once or twice perhaps but what's
amazing is and again research has shown
this our ability to detect
inauthenticity is like laser sharp there
was actually one of my favorite
experiments is they they um see these
researchers took a bunch of people
friends laughing together
and strangers trying to to pretend like
they're laughing together and they would
play people a half second of the
laughter and ask them which is which and
people could detect it 92% wow we just
know we like so you're right survival
depends on it our survival absolutely
absolutely our ability to form
friendship and community means that I
can trust you to watch for danger while
I'm asleep that's exactly right and and
if by the way you betray me yeah I will
be so much more Angry than if you simply
did the same thing but for benign
reasons it's it's it's an evolution it's
it's grown up as a pro-social Instinct
are you a better Communicator now that
you've written the book oh my gosh so
much better what tell me something tell
me how you showed up in different
circumstances that you show up
differently now so okay so two ways the
first way is I ask just a lot more
questions and I ask what are known as
deep questions and so a deep question is
something they ask someone about their
values or their beliefs or their
experiences and they usually start with
why so it's um and they can be very easy
it can be like oh you're a lawyer like
did you always want to be a lawyer like
why' you go to law school you know what
at what point did you decide that like
the law was the thing for you yeah those
are easy questions to ask but they're
all deep questions because they're
asking someone about their values or
their experiences yeah and so the that's
the first thing I do is that I try and
ask more deep questions and I try and
just listen more closely but then the
second thing is there's this big Insight
that
that we think of a discussion as being
about one thing but actually every
discussion is made up of multiple
conversations and most of them fall into
one or three buckets so's these
practical conversations right we're
making a decision we're fixing a problem
there's emotional conversations where
the goal is not to fix someone's problem
it's simply to share hold space yeah
hold space and then there's social
conversations which is about how do we
relate to other people how do we think
Society sees
us and so I used to come home and I
would have a bad day at work and I would
be complaining to my wife
and she would respond with practical
advice she'd say like look why don't you
take your boss out to lunch and get to
know him a little bit better and instead
of hearing her I would get even more
upset but now I know it's because she
was having a practical conversation and
I was having an emotional conversation
we couldn't connect with each other so
now one of the first things I do is I
try and figure out what kind of
conversation are we having like how do I
match this other person how do I invite
them to match me and sometimes it's as
simple as just saying like my wife says
this all the time like do you want want
me to fix your problem or just listen to
your problem yeah yeah or it can be as
simple as saying like you know we're
going to have a conversation like like
what's important to you out of this
conversation I love the idea of labeling
the conversation I've had it happen
where I was in a bad place and I called
somebody for advice and they started
fixing and I said to them I appreciate
your intention of trying to fix it I
need you to not fix it I need you to
just listen to me so I was able to give
instruction to match me at the time and
they probably appreciated that right
they did yeah and they and I've cauo in
the middle of trying to fix some do you
need me to offer you Solutions now you
know I love this idea of labeling and
it's look everybody can remember three
things they're easy social we're having
fun emotional how you feeling practical
you know do you want to fix something or
do you want to talk about something
intellectual exactly it's they're easy
to understand they're easy to remember
and I love the idea that it's not some
deep internal skill you just have to
make known the thing that's happening so
that we can be on the same wavelength
have that mirroring that's exactly right
and I think that that's what Steve Jobs
and Ronald Reagan and other people do is
they they walk away from a bad
conversation and instead of being like
that was a bad conversation they think
to themselves what did I miss like what
should I look for next time yeah and if
you start paying attention what you
notice is like you're talking to a to a
friend or a colleague and they'll say
something in a practical conversation
right over at work they'll say something
emotional and it's really easy to gloss
over it they'll say like my son just
graduated I'm so proud or I sorry I
didn't reply to your email yesterday was
like a I had something going on and our
instinct is to stay on that practical
track right like but if you say like Ah
that's amazing tell me about your son or
yeah what's what was going on yesterday
is it is it anything that like it's
helpful to talk through yeah that person
all of a sudden we are we are matching
them yeah and they're more willing to
listen to us and more importantly when
we say let's talk through this issue and
then let's get back to the budget of
planning they're going to go there with
you I I love that idea also which is
it's okay to go off script yeah in fact
it's in fact you have to go off script
or or the script hardly even exists it's
a it's it's a falsity that we think that
there's a script that we need to hold
ourselves to yeah that's so good it's so
good I what is your hope for the book I
know it's a I know it's a big question
but
like my hope is that is twofold I'm
hoping that people read this book and
that they get something as powerful from
it that improves their own life that
they can use it and then secondarily
like this is very Grand aspiration but I
hope that I'm part of encouraging a
bigger discussion about how we can as a
nation and as humans yeah have
conversations with people who are
different from us yeah where we where we
do connect yeah right those are the most
if you think about like the origin of
America America was born in conversation
the Constitutional Convention were
people who hated each other yeah having
a a conversation until they had a
constition and our best moments the best
moments for South Africa the best
moments for the UK yeah around the world
our best moments are moments when we
have a hard conversation with someone
whom it is hard to have that
conversation you can't make peace with
your friends yeah yeah exactly can you
tell me a story of something you wrote
an article a project you worked on in
your professional career it doesn't
matter whether it was commercially
successful or not but that you
absolutely loved this project you
absolutely loved this thing and if every
project you ever worked on was like this
one thing you'd be the happiest person
Al life yeah so there's um I I wrote
this piece for the New Yorker about two
years ago about spaxs do you remember
yeah it about this guy chamath pal
palaha um well done yeah thanks I I I
think I got a little bit wrong um I
loved this piece I loved writing this
piece I loved writing about chamat I
loved like it was just so colorful and
fun and I love Finance yeah
nobody read it like it was like one of
these things where like it was like oh
the New York audience is not into
Finance the same way I'm into Finance or
not into this guy who's like bombastic
and weird the way that I am but I was
just so gloriously happy to have written
it I was like if I read this piece I
would read the out of or like if I
bought this I would read the out of
this piece like I love it okay so you've
written some amazing things you want to
pullet or prize what specifically was it
about this one piece that you you light
up when you're thinking about it like it
up when you're talking about it it's a
really good question because one of the
reasons I decided to leave the times was
because that series I wrote about Apple
that won the Pulitzer I couldn't stand
to read it nobody like it was just
boring it was boring to read it wasn't
fun and this piece about chth and spaxs
it was just fun like this guy like he
like drops F Bombs all the time he like
tries to piss off other people because
he thinks it helps him sell things like
he says ridiculous things he he left his
his wife when she had cancer in order to
go marry someone younger like like it's
just this story where you're like this
is ridiculous I cannot believe that this
guy exists it was just so much fun but
you've written fun things before yeah so
what is it about this one that sort of I
don't know you answered this question
very quickly honestly I think it's
because it wasn't popular yeah like it
just it felt like for the first time
it's something I can point to that I'm
like I wrote that for me uhhuh uhhuh and
the thing when you're a professional
writer and you know this is that you
become a professional writer because you
love
writing it's easy to fall out of love
with writing yeah it's it's hard and it
and like you get into this place where
it doesn't feel it doesn't feel the way
it used to feel right it doesn't feel
special
anymore and I had felt that way for a
long time and and then I wrote this
piece and I was like oh yeah this is
what this is what I liked like I I liked
surp I like writing things that surprise
me by what ends end up coming out of my
fingers and it felt like that and
actually what's interesting is literally
the next thing I did is write the
proposal for super communicators like I
was like I was like I was like okay now
I think I'm at a place where I can write
put you in a great state of mind I I
remember what it's like to love writing
yeah tell me an early specific happy
childhood memory something specific that
I can relive with you that's a really
good question I've have a terrible
memory well okay I'll tell you two one
that's happy and one that's not um
when I was a kid I once made this
newsletter about how that I wanted to be
a babysitter so I put together I spent
like three days on this newsletter
advertising myself and it was funny and
it was Ry and it like had like terrible
twos and I thought it was hilarious my
parents thought it was hilarious and
they were like if you put this up
nobody's going to hire you as a babysit
like this is not what they're looking
for but that's one of the first times
that I found that writing just felt so
good then when I was in high school I
became a debater MH and I was so focused
on on winning I would actually wake up
and I would look in the mirror I this is
a crazy thing I would look in the mirror
and I would say you are crap if you do
not win this weekend because I felt like
I needed to like how did that make you
feel it made me feel both bad and good
right it made me feel
like it made me feel like I was pushing
myself as hard as I could push
myself but then when I would lose
tournaments or lose rounds I felt
terrible and to this day I cannot
remember a single round that I won and I
can tell you every single debate round
that I lost like I remember all of them
do you know what's so interesting about
those stories which is when
you make it about something external
when you make it about the
winning um you are not at your best yeah
whereas when you wrote the babysitter
newsletter it was for fun yeah and when
you glow about the the story of of uh of
the CIA uh recruiter you you you you
relate to him in such a way which is
when he made it about winning he
couldn't do it and when you when
you I mean it sounds corny but when you
practice what you preach when you when
you just are yourself and in life for
the fun of it and your curious writer
self who sees the world as this magical
playground and you're not writing for
anyone everything works I absolutely but
and but the question I have and maybe
you have an answer to this is how do we
remind ourselves of that when it's hard
to remember right do you know George
Saunders the St story writer he's a
wonderful person and a wonderful writer
and he said that basically like the
question he asks himself all the time is
he's he knows how good it feels to be
kind he knows how much he likes himself
when he is a kind person MH so why the
hell are there these moments when he's
unkind yeah and I I feel the same way
like how do we remind
ourselves to listen to that internal
voice that tells us this is what you
love this is what how do we how do we
ignore so there's there's there's
multiple answers um and some of them and
and I think you need multiple answers
because they don't they're not all easy
to do at the same time and so you have
multiple Solutions I mean one is to
start with Y which is to have a true
north and then you get to have this
filter going am I doing that so like my
why is to inspire people to do the
things that Inspire them so literally is
this doing that and and I catch myself
like I'm tired I'm grumpy I'm in a
Starbucks I'm not friendly and I say to
myself your entire I literally will
catch myself and say are you inspiring
the Barista no okay well change you're
like you have to do this all the time
you know like that's that is who you are
right and it is the thing that brings
you Joy so do it you idiot you know and
I'll catch myself and I have little
reminders so like I wear the color
orange somewhere on my person almost
always and that is not there for
decoration that is there because it it
stands out it's so damn bright and the
color orange is this color of optimism
just reminds me like maintain this
disposition show up to inspire and I
think your disposition is is really to
be for to encourage people to be
themselves I think that's right and I
think you know I think that's your best
work and when you are your best self is
when you just sort of smile and say I
guess I'm human and just enjoy that I
think that's absolutely true I think
that's a very and and there is this
thing about I find that I am happiest
when I'm
humblest oftentimes because something is
humbled me exactly not by choice right
it's not that like I'm just a humble
human being it's like I just screwed
something up really bad I used to joke
I'm the most humble person I
know I could talk to you forever this
has been so much fun um thanks so much
for coming on I really I really your
work helps us be more human and I really
hope um I really hope everybody uh reads
your book because I think we all need to
be a little more human today well and I
feel very similarly about your work I've
just like I I I didn't from the outside
I assumed that you were a writer like
because it's because I felt like start
with why is so gracefully written um but
I as long as I think there are a large
number of people who are committed to
asking hard questions yeah I think we're
okay thanks so much thanks for having me
oh so good if you enjoyed this podcast
and would like to hear more please
subscribe wherever like to listen to
podcasts and if you'd like even more
optimism check out my website simon.com
for classes videos and more until then
take care of yourself take care of each
other
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