Belinda Cortes-Martin (Crowe) - Day 133 AM (07 May 2024) - Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
TLDRBelinda Jane Cortes Martin, a key figure in the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry, testifies before the inquiry. She confirms her identity and the authenticity of her witness statement, dated April 8, 2014. Martin discusses corrections to her statement regarding the terms of her employment and acknowledges reviewing documents from the second bundle, particularly E42/p34/9472. She admits to previously raising a similar point in October 2014 but cannot recall the resolution. Martin, a former civil servant with a background in management and policy, including information director at the Ministry of Justice, was approached by the Post Office in 2012 to assist with the government's mutualization proposals. Her role involved formulating the Post Office's response to the government's proposals and supporting the mutualization project. She later served as the program director for Project Sparrow, which dealt with issues arising from the Horizon IT system used by the Post Office. The inquiry delves into Martin's understanding of the project's objectives, her awareness of bugs and errors within the Horizon system, and the implications of these issues on sub-postmasters. Martin acknowledges the complexity of the situation and the various roles she played, from consultant to employee, and her interactions with different stakeholders, including Second Sight and the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance.
Takeaways
- π Belinda Jane Cortes Martin confirmed her full name and position during the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry, highlighting her role in the mediation scheme and Project Sparrow.
- π΅οΈββοΈ Cortes Martin clarified that she was not involved in the detailed investigation of cases within the scheme, but rather managed the progress of applications and the scheme's overall process.
- π She acknowledged making corrections to her witness statement, particularly changing references from 'fulltime' to 'fixed term' and adding context about her understanding and actions related to the scheme.
- π The inquiry discussed the role of Second Sight, an investigative body, and the tension around its independence and the scope of its engagement with the Post Office.
- π€ Cortes Martin's professional background included being a civil servant and working as an independent consultant, primarily in information security, before joining the Post Office.
- βοΈ She was involved in formulating the Post Office's response to the government's proposals for mutualization and later took on roles related to the mediation scheme and Project Sparrow.
- π’ The Post Office's transformation program and the mutualization process were significant issues during her time there, though she was not made aware of specific problems with the Horizon system initially.
- π Cortes Martin addressed the Helen Rose report's implications for the credibility of Gareth Jenkins, a Post Office expert witness, and the potential impact on past prosecutions.
- π The issue of remote access to the Horizon system was raised, with concerns about Fujitsu's ability to alter data without sub-postmasters' knowledge, which Cortes Martin discussed in the context of the scheme.
- πΌ Cortes Martin's role as program director for Project Sparrow was more administrative than strategic, focusing on coordination and support rather than decision-making.
- π The Post Office's handling of the mediation scheme was scrutinized, with concerns expressed about the escalating costs and the need to maintain a focus on the scheme's original intent.
Q & A
What was the main role of Belinda Jane Cortes Martin in the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry?
-Belinda Jane Cortes Martin served as the program director for Project Sparrow and was responsible for providing secretariat to the working group, managing a small team of coordinators, and ensuring the smooth running of the scheme under review.
What were the corrections made by Belinda Jane Cortes Martin to her witness statement?
-Belinda Jane Cortes Martin corrected her witness statement to change the term 'fulltime' to 'fixed term' in paragraphs 9, 12, and 42. She also added a new sentence in paragraph 24 referring to a document review and her recollection of a similar point raised in October 2014. In paragraph 85, she added a clarification regarding her disagreement with the approach suggested by lawyers and sought the views of general counsel. Lastly, in paragraph 60, she made a grammatical correction to include 'one of' and add an 's' to 'meetings'.
What was the significance of the interim second site report in the context of the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry?
-The interim second site report was significant as it raised concerns about the integrity of the Horizon system used by the Post Office. It mentioned three defects or bugs that had been identified and addressed by the Post Office, highlighting issues that affected several branches and causing discrepancies in accounts.
The stakeholder Forum chaired by Paula venos was established to look at the public purpose of the Post Office. It was part of the process to work with the Post Office to determine how the mutualization could be implemented within the organization.
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What were the key issues facing the Post Office when Belinda Jane Cortes Martin first started her role?
-The key issue facing the Post Office at the time Belinda Jane Cortes Martin started her role was its transformation program. There were also concerns about the Horizon system, though Belinda Jane Cortes Martin did not recall being informed about specific challenges related to Horizon at that time.
What was the nature of the 'Lessons Learned' exercise that Belinda Jane Cortes Martin was asked to coordinate?
-The 'Lessons Learned' exercise was intended to discuss and collect insights from the business regarding the experience of setting up the scheme at short notice. It was not about assigning blame for any problems but rather focused on the Post Office's ability to rapidly establish a scheme or project.
Why did Belinda Jane Cortes Martin feel some discomfort regarding her dual roles in the scheme working group and the Project Sparrow advisory role?
-Belinda Jane Cortes Martin felt discomfort because, after reviewing the documents and understanding the subsequent developments, she recognized the potential conflict of interest and the appearance of her roles. However, at the time, she did not feel any real tension and was never under any pressure from the Post Office to favor them in her support for the working group and the scheme.
What was the role of the General Counsel in the context of the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry?
-The General Counsel, Chris oard, was responsible for addressing any issues that the Post Office board wanted to tackle in order to inform any decisions they wanted to make related to the scheme. Belinda Jane Cortes Martin provided a support function for Chris oard, ensuring he had all the necessary information.
How did the Post Office respond to the findings of the interim second site report?
-According to Belinda Jane Cortes Martin's understanding, the Post Office believed that it had addressed the issues raised in the second site report satisfactorily. The Post Office continued to have confidence in the Horizon system and considered that a line had been drawn under the issues, moving forward.
What was the role of the 'mediation scheme' in the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry?
-The mediation scheme was established to review and address complaints related to the Post Office's Horizon system. It was part of the Post Office's response to the issues raised in the second site report and was intended to provide a forum for resolving disputes and concerns.
What was the significance of the Helen Rose report in the context of the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry?
-The Helen Rose report was significant because it raised concerns about the integrity of the Horizon system and the evidence provided by Gareth Jenkins, the Post Office's expert witness. The report suggested that Jenkins was aware of issues with Horizon that were not disclosed in his expert testimony, which could have undermined the credibility of his evidence and affected the outcomes of related prosecutions.
Outlines
π Witness Testimony and Statement Corrections
The transcript begins with a witness, Miss Belinda Jane Cortez Martin, affirming she will tell the truth. She is then asked to confirm her identity and provide a statement. Corrections are made to her written statement regarding the terms 'fulltime' to 'fixed term'. Additional sentences are inserted to reflect a review of documents and to clarify her disagreement with lawyers' approaches. The witness's background as a civil servant and her roles within the Post Office and the Ministry of Justice are discussed.
π Role in the Mutualization Project and Information Policy
The witness discusses her role in the mutualization project of the Post Office, her meeting with key personnel, and her submission of a proposal. She outlines her previous roles, including managing claims at the Disability Living Allowance Center and working on policy reform. As Information Director at the Ministry of Justice, she was responsible for various information-related policies and practices. After leaving the Civil Service, she became an independent consultant focusing on information security.
π Involvement in Project Sparrow and Secretariat Role
The witness describes her involvement with Project Sparrow, where she was asked to support the complaint review and mediation scheme. She clarifies her roles, which included secretariat duties, communication, and strategic advice. She also discusses the lack of clarity around her roles and the project's objectives. An email from Paula Venel outlines her responsibilities, and the witness recalls her understanding of the project's role and the challenges faced by the Post Office.
π€ Tensions and Lessons Learned in the Post Office
The witness expresses discomfort with her dual roles in the scheme and Project Sparrow. She discusses the tensions within the Post Office and her limited understanding of the Lessons Learned exercise. She recalls the involvement of various individuals and her focus on supporting the chair and working group of the scheme.
π Review of Scheme and Report on Horizon System
The witness discusses her involvement in reviewing the scheme and the interim second site report related to the Horizon system. She explains her interactions with the report and the request for the report by email. The significance of the report for individuals against whom the Post Office had taken action is highlighted.
π Inquiry into Subpostmasters' Convictions and Horizon Data
The witness was aware of the Post Office's use of Horizon data in private prosecutions against subpostmasters. She discusses her limited knowledge of the details of these cases and her understanding of the Post Office's confidence in its prosecutions. An email is presented regarding a subpostmaster's case and the mediation scheme, which the witness did not recall being involved in.
π§ Email Correspondence and the Helen Rose Report
The witness discusses email correspondence regarding the Helen Rose report and its implications for the Horizon system's integrity. The report's significance to cases under review and its critical nature are highlighted. The witness admits to not fully appreciating the report's importance at the time.
π’ Post Office's Response to Issues Raised
The witness discusses the Post Office's response to issues raised by Second Sight and the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance. She mentions her awareness of bugs, errors, and defects, and the Post Office's handling of related matters. The focus is on the Post Office's confidence in the Horizon system and the witness's lack of detailed involvement in the investigation of these issues.
π Remote Access and Horizon System Integrity
The issue of remote access to the Horizon system is discussed, with the witness addressing concerns about Fujitsu's ability to alter data without subpostmasters' knowledge. The witness recalls her understanding of the Post Office's position on the matter and her involvement in formulating responses to inquiries about remote access.
π Program Director Role and Project Sparrow
The witness clarifies her role as Program Director for Project Sparrow, noting that it was more focused on coordination than decision-making. She discusses the governance structure and her team's responsibilities in relation to the scheme. The witness also addresses the scope and success criteria of Project Sparrow.
π€ Second Site's Role and Scheme Management
The witness discusses the role of Second Sight in reviewing the Post Office's investigations and supporting the working group. She mentions the changing views on Second Sight's involvement and the lack of a clear engagement letter outlining its role. The witness also addresses the issue of remote access and the Post Office's handling of related inquiries.
Mindmap
Keywords
Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry
Witness Statement
Civil Servant
Mutualization Project
Project Sparrow
Second Site
Helen Rose Report
Subpostmasters
Bugs, Errors, Defects (BEDS)
Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance
Remote Access
Highlights
Belinda Jane Cortes Martin confirmed her commitment to provide truthful evidence during the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry.
Cortes Martin made corrections to her witness statement, changing 'fulltime' to 'fixed term' in several paragraphs.
She added a new sentence in her statement acknowledging a review of documents provided in the second bundle, specifically E42.
Cortes Martin clarified her disagreement with the approach suggested by lawyers in the introduction during her first Steering group meeting for Project Sparrow.
Emma Price is leading the questioning on behalf of the inquiry.
Cortes Martin's role as Information Director at the Ministry of Justice included oversight of libraries, records management, and data protection policy.
After leaving the Civil Service, Cortes Martin became an independent consultant, primarily focusing on information security.
Cortes Martin was involved in formulating the Post Office's response to the government's proposals for mutualization.
She was asked to move and work within the Post Office's complaint review and mediation scheme, referred to as 'the scheme'.
Cortes Martin's roles included providing secretariat support to the scheme working group and strategic advice to Paula Venables.
Project Sparrow's objectives were to separate the mediation scheme from business improvements and to improve the Post Office's response to complaints.
The Post Office had previously disclosed to Second Sight that defects in the Horizon system had impacted 76 branches.
Cortes Martin was not aware of concerns being raised within the Post Office about bugs, errors, or defects in the Horizon system.
The Helen Rose report was brought to the attention of those involved in the scheme, raising questions about the integrity of Horizon data.
Simon Clark's advice highlighted the failure of Dr. Gareth Jenkins to disclose material that undermined his expert opinion on the Horizon system.
Cortes Martin expressed that she did not fully appreciate the importance of the Helen Rose report at the time.
Andrew Parsons discussed downplaying the importance of the Helen Rose report in response to CQRs to avoid negative implications for the Post Office.
The issue of remote access to the Horizon system was raised, with concerns about Fujitsu's ability to alter transaction data without subpostmasters' knowledge.