Oliver Stone Pushes Back Against Fears Over Nuclear Power
Summary
TLDRIn the podcast 'The Joe Rogan Experience', the discussion delves into the misconceptions surrounding nuclear power. The conversation highlights the safety of nuclear energy compared to other sources, using the analogy of driving cars versus flying planes. It addresses the overblown fears post-Three Mile Island and the anti-nuclear movement's impact. The documentary 'Nuclear Now' is mentioned, which aims to educate and challenge the negative stereotypes associated with nuclear power, emphasizing its potential as a clean and abundant energy source. The discussion also touches on the advancements in nuclear technology, the environmental benefits over fossil fuels, and the relatively minimal and manageable waste it produces.
Takeaways
- 🚗 The analogy of driving a car being dangerous yet not scary, and flying being scary yet safer, is used to illustrate the public's misconception about nuclear power.
- 📊 The documentary 'Nuclear Now' presents data showing that coal causes many more deaths annually compared to nuclear power, which has a surprisingly low death toll.
- 🎬 The anti-nuclear movement post-Three Mile Island is discussed, highlighting how celebrities and media contributed to a fear-driven narrative without fully understanding the facts.
- 🌏 Nuclear energy is described as a 'miracle' that is abundant in the Earth's resources, such as uranium, and is a product of human ingenuity and scientific discovery.
- 💥 The script discusses the historical development of nuclear energy, its association with World War II, and the subsequent misunderstandings that arose from its military applications.
- 🎭 Hollywood and media are criticized for perpetuating negative stereotypes of nuclear energy through films and comic books, which have contributed to public fear.
- 🏭 The discussion of the Three Mile Island incident emphasizes that while a reactor meltdown occurred, no one was harmed due to effective containment structures.
- 🌊 The Fukushima disaster is analyzed, revealing that no deaths were caused by radiation, contrary to popular belief, and that the event was more a result of natural disasters and outdated infrastructure.
- ⚡ The script points out that radiation is a natural part of our environment and that the fear of radiation is often exaggerated, with examples like the radiation from a banana being harmless.
- 🌿 The conversation emphasizes the need for nuclear power as a clean, reliable energy source, especially in the face of climate change and the negative health impacts of fossil fuels.
Q & A
What is the analogy made in the documentary about the perception of danger between nuclear power and other forms of transportation?
-The analogy compares driving a car, which is not scary but dangerous, to flying in a plane, which feels scary but is much safer. This is used to illustrate how nuclear power is perceived as scary but is statistically much safer than other energy sources like coal.
How does the documentary address the anti-nuclear movement that followed the Three Mile Island incident?
-The documentary discusses the anti-nuclear movement that arose after the Three Mile Island incident, highlighting how it was fueled by celebrities and media, and how it contributed to a widespread fear of nuclear power without considering the actual risks and benefits.
What misconceptions about nuclear power does the documentary aim to correct?
-The documentary aims to correct misconceptions such as associating nuclear power with nuclear bombs, the belief that nuclear energy plants are inherently dangerous, and the idea that nuclear waste is an unsolvable problem.
How does the documentary portray the development of nuclear energy during World War II?
-The documentary explains that nuclear energy was developed during World War II, emphasizing that the urgency of the war led to the creation of the atomic bomb, which was a separate application from peaceful nuclear energy generation.
What is the documentary's stance on the safety of nuclear power plants, especially in light of incidents like Chernobyl and Fukushima?
-The documentary argues that nuclear power plants are generally safe, and that incidents like Chernobyl and Fukushima were exceptions caused by specific circumstances and design flaws. It also points out that no deaths were directly caused by radiation in the Fukushima incident.
How does the documentary compare the risks of nuclear power to those of other energy sources, such as coal?
-The documentary highlights that coal power results in a significant number of deaths and health issues due to pollution, contrasting this with the relatively low number of deaths associated with nuclear power.
What role does the documentary suggest that nuclear power could play in addressing climate change?
-The documentary suggests that nuclear power is a crucial part of the solution to climate change due to its ability to provide large amounts of reliable, low-carbon energy without the need for backup or energy storage.
How does the documentary discuss the issue of nuclear waste and its potential impact on the environment?
-The documentary addresses the issue of nuclear waste by explaining that the volume is much smaller than commonly believed and that modern cask storage methods are safe and effective for long-term containment.
What is the documentary's view on the current state of nuclear energy development in the United States compared to other countries like China and Russia?
-The documentary points out that while the United States was once a leader in nuclear energy, countries like China and Russia are now investing heavily in new nuclear technology, potentially leaving the U.S. behind in this field.
How does the documentary handle the topic of radiation and its effects on human health?
-The documentary discusses the topic of radiation by debunking common myths and emphasizing that low levels of radiation are a natural part of the environment and human life, and that the risks associated with nuclear power are minimal compared to other energy sources.
Outlines
📚 Nuclear Power Misconceptions
The paragraph discusses the documentary 'Nuclear Now' which aims to challenge common misconceptions about nuclear power. It contrasts public fear of nuclear power with the actual safety record, using the analogy of driving cars versus flying planes to illustrate perceived versus actual danger. The documentary covers historical events like Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima, emphasizing that while accidents happened, the anti-nuclear movement's reaction was exaggerated. It also touches on how nuclear energy is a gift from the Earth, with potential for misuse similar to other natural resources. The speaker reflects on their own past beliefs and the importance of education to understand nuclear power's true benefits and risks.
🌏 Nuclear Energy Advancements
This section of the script talks about the evolution and improvement of nuclear reactors over the past 60 to 70 years. Despite their age, these reactors are still operational, indicating the durability of nuclear technology. The conversation highlights the potential for modern reactors to prevent disasters like Fukushima if built with current knowledge. It also addresses the persistent fear and negative perception of nuclear energy, contrasting it with the actual safety record and the environmental benefits compared to coal. The discussion points out that radiation is a natural part of our environment and that the nuclear industry has made significant strides in safety and technology, yet public opinion remains largely uninformed and biased.
🔋 The Reality of Nuclear Waste
The final paragraph focuses on the reality of nuclear waste and the benefits of nuclear power as a clean energy source. It dispels myths about the volume of waste produced by nuclear reactors, stating that the total waste from U.S. reactors could fit in a single Walmart. The conversation emphasizes that nuclear waste is safely stored in concrete and steel casks, which are effective at containing radioactivity. It also points out that nuclear energy does not require backup power or energy storage like other renewables, making it a reliable and clean source of energy. The paragraph concludes by comparing the minimal harm caused by nuclear waste to the significant environmental and health impacts of fossil fuels, particularly coal.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Nuclear Power
💡Three Mile Island
💡Chernobyl
💡Fukushima
💡Anti-Nuclear Movement
💡Nuclear Energy vs. Nuclear Bomb
💡Radiation
💡Prometheus
💡China Syndrome
💡Renewables
💡Nuclear Waste
Highlights
The documentary discusses the misconceptions about nuclear power, comparing it to driving a car which is dangerous but not scary, and flying which is scary but safer.
The documentary presents data showing the number of deaths from coal power compared to nuclear power, highlighting the relative safety of nuclear energy.
The anti-nuclear movement post-Three Mile Island is criticized for being based on fear rather than facts.
The documentary aims to educate viewers about the true nature of nuclear power, dispelling myths and misinformation.
Nuclear energy is described as a 'miracle' that has been misunderstood and misused, similar to the myth of Prometheus.
The development of nuclear energy during World War II led to its association with bombs and horror, rather than its peaceful applications.
The documentary counters the popular narrative that Three Mile Island was a disaster, explaining that no one was hurt due to effective containment.
The film 'China Syndrome' and the HBO series 'Charitable' are criticized for their fictional and alarmist portrayals of nuclear accidents.
The documentary reveals that no one died from radiation in Fukushima, contrary to widespread beliefs.
The documentary discusses the ubiquity of radiation in nature and how it is not inherently harmful.
The film argues that the fear of nuclear power is largely driven by media sensationalism and a lack of understanding.
China and Russia are leading in nuclear power development, with China planning significant investments in new reactors.
The documentary points out that despite negative stereotypes, the U.S. still has more operational nuclear reactors than any country planning new ones.
The film discusses the environmental and health impacts of coal power, which are significantly worse than those of nuclear power.
The documentary addresses the issue of nuclear waste, explaining that the volume is much smaller than commonly believed and can be safely stored.
The film argues that nuclear power is a clean, reliable energy source that does not require backup or storage like other renewables.
The documentary concludes by emphasizing the need to overcome misconceptions about nuclear power to address climate change and energy needs.
Transcripts
The Joe Rogan Experience I'm really glad
how you covered it in this uh
documentary about Three Mile Island and
Chernobyl and Fukushima we have these
ideas in our mind about the dangers of
nuclear power and I love the analogy
that you made in the film about how
driving a car is not scary but it's
dangerous flying in a plane feels scary
but it's far safer yeah and this is a
great analogy to nuclear power when you
went over the the data when you talked
about the amount of death from coal
every year when you talk about the
amount of deaths overall ever from
nuclear it's it's stunning it is it's
stunning and then when you cut to in the
documentary you showed the anti-nuclear
movement that happened after Three Mile
Island yeah and how crazy it was it's
all these stars and celebrities and
they're doing concerts we've got to stop
nuclear power and
what a mess that happens in in when The
Fad I mean becomes fashionable yeah he's
a very successful movement you're
talking about the negatives here and the
accidents and uh
we we cover all that in the film which
is called nuclear now and the idea that
was behind it was because I really was
like you I mean I I went along with
those things in the 70s and the 80s
because I didn't know better I didn't I
wasn't educated I really wanted to know
what is nuclear power I wanted to go
back to the source and you've got to go
back to the beginning and you got to go
back to malikiri and Albert Einstein and
World War II and all how it could how it
got developed this nuclear energy is a
beautiful incredible almost a miracle
that was given to us that we have in
Earth it's all it's in the earth uranium
it's everywhere the planet the Earth the
Sun and we in a sense we took it like
Prometheus and we kind of misinterpreted
it misused it which is not which is kind
of normal for given what we do with
natural things
World War II was happening just as the
as the nuclear the fishing was being
understood and that made the bomb they
made the bomb with it because there was
a war on and they they rushed it and
they did a they did an amazing job
Oppenheimer down in
uh the the in Los Alamos but and they
got it and they were successful
but as you know it was misunderstood
that that point the nuclear energy was
not nuclear bomb in the contrary it was
a bomb is very difficult to build and it
takes a lot it takes years sometimes it
takes scientists and they have to enrich
the plutonium and they have to work at
it there's all configurations in the
bomb that don't exist in nuclear energy
so when people see a nuclear energy
plant they
subconsciously they cross it with both
war and they cross it with horror films
that they've seen in the 1950s with
radioactivity and monsters had come out
of that you know spider yeah spider
bites the man and you become Spider-Man
you know Hulk yeah it's incredible the
stuff that happens and it's all and if
Hollywood has done no favors to it it's
continued for years and years and years
and then
and of course you had a Three Mile
Island the film was coming out at the
same time uh China Syndrome and with
Jane Fonda was a good film I enjoyed it
we all enjoyed it but it really was
hysterical and alarmist saying and
nothing happened at Three Mile Island
except the reactor did melt down but
nobody get got hurt because the
containment structure worked to keep it
in to keep it in so there was no release
of radiation
and they continued on silkwood was
another one and then if you remember uh
not too long ago there was the HBO thing
charitable yeah which was a complete
fictionalization of what happened at
Chernobyl so we went to Russia and we
talked to the scientists there and we
wanted to know what happened to
Chernobyl and we find out and it's in
the film
and the same thing is true for Fukushima
which is unbelievable because I when you
go to the bottom of it it's I was
astounded to find out that nobody died
there from radiation not one Japanese
they checked the whole thing out and
it's been done to death
but you hear about fifteen twenty
thousand people died from the tsunami
and the earthquake which was the biggest
earthquake Japan ever had I mean really
we show the earthquake we show the
tsunami the wave was a hundred feet tall
there was a badly built wall the wall
was not a sea wall that was could hold
and the generators were flooded beneath
the the water and and these are these
were also not state-of-the-art
um that's right it's like what they can
do now in terms of these power plants
everything gets better I mean yeah but
even though those those nuclear reactors
built 60 70 years ago are still
functioning they're Legacy reactors they
do work yeah and we mustn't dismiss them
yeah it gets better than technology gets
better like as in any business you
and there's another generation and it's
better but hopefully better but uh the
point was that they could avoid what
happened in Fukushima today oh Fukushima
was if you if you look at closely Japan
had built uh 20 some reactors at that
point and this one is the only one the
others were exposed to the same
earthquake and the same kind of tsunami
several of them were on that same
coastline
but this particular one this plant was
uh was the only one that was shaken up
and even then all the radiation that was
released there was a hydrogen explosion
all the explo that radiation released in
the air you heard about it was not
supposed to be another terrible well
they we have shots in the film showing
they're taking tests on all the Japanese
citizens and nobody can you know it's
low level what they call low level
radiation which is we can sustain it we
have a we have DNA in our body that
fixes repairs our body as each day goes
by
we uh but it's also you point out very
well in the film that there's a lot of
radiation that you don't even take into
consideration that you encounter
constantly we have this idea of
radiation as being a net negative it's a
terrible thing but it's just a thing
you get it from being outside you get it
from rocks you get it from all sorts of
things
there's radiation in this room it's it's
it's uh you get radiation from eating a
banana I think what you said is so it's
so true that films and
um and comic books and are fictions of
radiation that's part of the problem
yeah that started early it's a giant
problem because comic books and all that
it plays to the worst aspects of human
nature which is we just love to get
terrified about headlines so we don't
read into the devil of the details
exactly that's what was confusing to me
and I really we're miseducated
uh and there is still a bias against
nuclear if you mention it to anybody
yeah it's scary instantly and it's yeah
but the point is we can live with it and
we have to because we're facing we're
finishing a very difficult situation a
cliff that we're going to go over and it
seems that no one's really getting it so
that's why I felt like the film I wanted
to know I need to educate myself so in
doing the film I think I was able to
bring out these things you talk about
what is wrong with nuclear energy it can
work it is a miracle we should use it
and we should use it abundantly the
Chinese have and the Russians are way
ahead of us they've built this they
built it and they built it with
government backing not like the us where
we kind of back it but we don't really
back it so as a result well China is
really cutting out now because they have
about 70 reactors approximately 70
reactors
yeah about 74 I think anyway they're
building and I've heard uh I can't I
don't remember the source but I did hear
that they're putting another 140 billion
dollars into this thing which means that
they're going to build 150 some reactors
over the next uh
by 2038 that is a serious investment
serious investment wow
that's a serious investment that would
take a long time for us to catch up to
oh it's not about competing it's right
but if we wanted to do what they're
doing right now well we have even if
it's not competing just to do just to be
current yeah so they're the leader right
now in it well no uh we're the biggest
country in the world we still have 90
some reactors online so China's climate
goals hinge on a 440 billion dollar
nuclear build out that's interesting so
we have we still have more even with all
the negative stereotypes about nuclear
reactors
planning on at least 150 new reactors in
the next 15 years more than the rest of
the world has built in the past 35. wow
that's why I'm surprised you remember no
it just says it right there the article
oh Jimmy just had it pulled up China uh
has wow and you got a system worked out
yeah Jamie's the wizard look at him over
there he's the best he doesn't know what
film is about even but this uh this uh
article that you just pulled up Jamie
this is from uh Bloomberg Jesus Christ
yeah well you see you got the source
right away yeah and this is from 2021
um it's this this whole thing it's it is
exactly how you lay it out in the film
it's almost like we have to cure
ourselves of these misconceptions and if
we don't we're screwed China's building
man they don't [ __ ] around now they have
a lot of cold they still they're still
building coal plants right because they
have a huge demand and they have to get
off the cold that isn't crucial because
they are completely contaminating the
atmosphere as well the more nuclear they
build the better it will be the
contamination from coal is terrifying we
showed a um a documentary that had been
done with do you remember the
documentary
no but I remember it was Indiana it was
a documentary it was all about
um one of the things that was
highlighting is all the people that live
around these plants and the air quality
they saw for it's insane their cars are
covered with like a thin film of you
know all the particulates in the in the
atmosphere that's great it's horrible
they estimate from air pollution alone
I've read figures of four million deaths
a year it's just so much you need so
many cases of you know respiratory
illnesses and that's horrible I want to
say 4 million a year from air pollution
but one million at least from coal a
year that's what I've seen look there
could be more coal in the so it's and
who knows what the the health negatives
are on top of that like how many people
are suffering with illnesses and
ailments because of those particulars
especially around those reactors or or
the plants rather it's horrible yeah
well we still have coal in the U.S yeah
no this was in the U.S this was in
Indiana correct oh yeah they have coal
everywhere I mean president Trump said
uh Trump digs coal I dig coal he said
clean cold once was just like what the
[ __ ] are you saying the [ __ ] are you
saying cleaner than what
the other lighting tires now the other
uh truth that we miss is gas now we know
how ugly the oil thing is I mean there's
the waste and all the oil and this
fossil fuel itself is destroying the
universe because we're putting carbon
into the atmosphere CO2 but uh gas is
considered they're using gas everywhere
even it seems like a modern thing they
say well Renewables which are solar and
wind those are we're all for that I want
wind we want solar but they don't work
all the time
they run out in winter at night is it
also a problem with Battery Technology
when it comes to this part of it too but
the point is when they run out what they
need is gas backup it's back up you see
nuclear
doesn't need storage and it doesn't need
backup what's the beauty of it it's a
real clean energy
and the gas does I mean uh
Renewables do need backup and that
backup is gas so it's not a hundred
percent like the one one of the issues
is about storage the waste yeah and when
you talked about just the the size of
the amount of storage it's not nearly as
much as a lot of people think it is
of the amount of we uh it's the only
waste that we America is
used up to now in the last since the
1958 whenever shipping Port was built
has amounts to about the size of Walmart
frankly you could put it in a Walmart in
other words people make a big deal about
waste but they don't realize that it's
so intensive an energy huge amount of
energy that it's it's uh how do you say
compact as a result so it fits into a
if waste itself is is a positive about
nuclear because
first of all there's been no harm done
so it's been buried in casks and first
of all it goes into water for maybe two
three years and that's a conductor that
takes takes the radioactivity down and
then it gets put into casks that are
12 to 14 feet they build these casks in
the United States they're concrete and
steel concrete
uh is a great uh it does not conduct uh
radioactivity concrete stops it so
concrete and and steel casks work they
can go for 100 years and then you can do
another 100 years and then eventually
eventually you realize that
radioactivity drops each time in four or
five years it's way down it tops to
almost if you I don't have all the
figures but you can see that it's it's a
ridiculous fear given compared to what
given climate change is so dangerous and
compared to the deaths that are already
occurring every year just from you using
the methods we have now in in comparison
to the amount of people that died from
nuclear it's very very small
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