In Conversation with Margaret Atwood on The Tempest
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful conversation, Anthony Chameli, Artistic Director of the Stratford Festival, interviews acclaimed novelist Margaret Atwood about her novel 'Hag-Seed,' a modern retelling of Shakespeare's 'The Tempest.' Atwood discusses her fascination with 'The Tempest,' especially its themes of power, redemption, and the role of Prospero as a director. She reflects on her creative process, transforming Shakespeare's characters into contemporary figures, including a unique solution for Miranda. The discussion also touches on the power of theater in prisons and the layered complexities of both the play and Atwood's novel.
Takeaways
- 🎭 Margaret Atwood's novel *Hag-Seed* is based on Shakespeare's *The Tempest* and was one of the first parallel novels requested by a publisher.
- 👑 Atwood chose *The Tempest* because it's an end-of-career play that becomes more relatable with age, and she sees Prospero as a stand-in for Shakespeare himself.
- 🎬 In *Hag-Seed*, Atwood reimagines Prospero as Felix, a stage director who parallels the control and manipulation of the play's characters.
- 🧙♂️ The character of Ariel, a central figure in *The Tempest*, is recast as a special effects character, reflecting Prospero’s directorial control.
- 👩👧 Atwood had to creatively solve the challenge of Miranda's role in a modern context, making her a vision of Felix's deceased daughter rather than a living character.
- 📖 *Hag-Seed* has been adapted into a play about a director staging *The Tempest* in a prison, reflecting a similar prison-based program in real life.
- 🎭 Prisoners involved in the real-life prison production of *The Tempest* take their roles seriously, even playing female characters, which parallels *Hag-Seed*'s approach.
- 📜 Atwood explores the theme of forgiveness in *The Tempest*, especially in Prospero’s journey toward relenting and asking the audience for forgiveness.
- 🧙♀️ Both Prospero and Sycorax, Caliban’s mother, are depicted as sorcerers in the play, raising questions about their relationship and Caliban’s parentage.
- 😂 Margaret Atwood humorously shares that she won the Swedish Humor Award, though the actual award was stolen, adding a lighthearted anecdote to the conversation.
Q & A
What was the purpose of Margaret Atwood's conversation in this transcript?
-The conversation was part of the Stratford Festival on film series, where Margaret Atwood discussed her novel *Hag-Seed*, a retelling of Shakespeare's *The Tempest*, and the themes and ideas explored in both works.
Why did Margaret Atwood choose *The Tempest* for her retelling in *Hag-Seed*?
-Margaret Atwood chose *The Tempest* because it is often interpreted as an 'end of career' play, and she found it increasingly interesting as she reached a certain age. She also saw it as a play where Shakespeare reflects on his own role as a playwright through the character of Prospero, who acts as a producer and director within the play.
How does Atwood's *Hag-Seed* parallel *The Tempest*?
-In *Hag-Seed*, Atwood makes Prospero into a modern-day stage director named Felix. Felix, like Prospero, is betrayed by his second-in-command and exiled, and he later stages a production of *The Tempest* within a prison setting, mirroring the play's themes of power, revenge, and redemption.
How did Margaret Atwood solve the 'Miranda problem' in *Hag-Seed*?
-Atwood found it problematic to portray Miranda as a teenage girl who had never left home in a modern setting, so she reimagined her as a deceased child whom Felix, the protagonist, imagines growing up. This allowed Miranda to remain a presence in the story without being directly involved in the same way as the play.
How has *Hag-Seed* been received in real-life prison theater programs?
-After *Hag-Seed* was published, Atwood was contacted by a real-life theater teacher in a prison who wanted to adapt the book into a play for inmates. They planned to stage a play about a play being performed in a prison, mimicking the structure of Atwood's novel and further layering the meta-theatrical concept.
Why does Prospero ask the audience for forgiveness at the end of *The Tempest*?
-Atwood interprets this moment as Prospero recognizing that he has been imprisoned by his own actions and the play itself. In order to be free, he needs the audience's pardon, which creates a deeper connection between the character's journey and the theatrical experience.
What is the significance of Ariel in both *The Tempest* and *Hag-Seed*?
-In both works, Ariel plays a crucial role as Prospero’s 'special effects' entity who carries out his commands. In *Hag-Seed*, Atwood reimagines Ariel as an alien figure, which resonates with the prison setting as inmates were more willing to accept this portrayal rather than playing a fairy.
What is Atwood's view on Caliban’s character in *The Tempest*?
-Atwood suggests that Caliban could be interpreted as Prospero's own 'child' when Prospero says, 'This thing of darkness I acknowledge mine.' She also points out the similarity between Prospero and Sycorax, both of whom use magic and imprison Ariel, raising questions about Caliban’s origins.
What themes does Atwood explore in *Hag-Seed* that reflect modern political realities?
-Atwood explores themes of governance and responsibility, reflecting on how Prospero's neglect of his duties led to his exile, a situation that mirrors modern politics, where power vacuums and betrayal can occur when leaders are inattentive or overly absorbed in their personal interests.
What award did Margaret Atwood humorously mention during the conversation, and what happened to it?
-Margaret Atwood mentioned that she won the Swedish Humor Award, but she did not physically collect it. Her publishers picked it up on her behalf, but it was later stolen, making it a humorous anecdote about her unexpected accolade.
Outlines
📜 The Inspiration Behind 'Hag-Seed'
Anthony Chameli, the artistic director of the Stratford Festival, interviews Margaret Atwood about her novel 'Hag-Seed,' which is a retelling of Shakespeare's 'The Tempest.' Atwood explains that she chose 'The Tempest' because it becomes more interesting with age, as it is a career-ending play and reflects on Shakespeare's own role as a playwright. She likens Prospero to a director, controlling the special effects and characters within the play. Atwood also discusses the challenge of adapting Miranda's character to a modern context, hinting at a creative solution that avoids the creepiness of a man keeping a teenage daughter isolated.
🎭 Theatre in Prisons and Shakespeare's Relevance
Margaret Atwood shares how 'Hag-Seed' came to life in a unique setting—a theatre in prisons. She describes the process of adapting 'The Tempest' into a play within a prison context, where an alien character replaces the fairy Ariel. Atwood reflects on the significance of Shakespeare's work for prisoners, who take their roles seriously and find empowerment in the characters. She also touches on the themes of power, governance, and the consequences of abdication, drawing parallels to modern politics and the importance of leadership and responsibility.
👽 Ariel as an Alien and the多层嵌套 of 'Hag-Seed'
In this segment, Atwood discusses the creative decision to portray Ariel as an alien in a prison setting, which aligns with the original play's themes of non-human characters reflecting human nature. She explores the idea of Prospero's need for forgiveness and the various interpretations of the character's motivations and relationships, including the enigmatic Caliban. Atwood also mentions the Swedish Humor Award she won, adding a personal and humorous touch to the discussion.
😂 The Swedish Humor Award Antic
The final paragraph concludes the interview with a lighter note. Atwood humorously recounts her experience with the Swedish Humor Award, which she won but could not collect due to rain, and which was subsequently stolen. This anecdote adds a personal and amusing dimension to the conversation, highlighting Atwood's wit and the unexpected turns in her career.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡The Tempest
💡Prospero
💡Hag-Seed
💡Miranda
💡Ariel
💡Imprisonment
💡Artistic Control
💡Redemption
💡Metatheatre
💡Power and Authority
Highlights
Margaret Atwood discusses her novel *Hag-Seed*, a modern retelling of Shakespeare's *The Tempest*.
Atwood was one of the first authors approached by a publisher to choose any Shakespeare play for a modern novel adaptation.
She chose *The Tempest* because it reflects themes of ending a career and life's transitions, becoming more relatable as she aged.
Atwood parallels Prospero's role as a director in *The Tempest* to that of a modern artistic director in *Hag-Seed*.
In her novel, the character Felix mirrors Prospero's obsession with his craft, facing betrayal from a second-in-command.
Atwood found a creative solution to the character of Miranda by having her die as a child but be imagined by Felix as growing up.
Her novel's setting at a prison includes Felix putting on a production of *The Tempest* with prisoners, paralleling real-life programs.
Atwood shares that after her book was published, a prison in Missouri wanted to stage a play based on *Hag-Seed*.
In *Hag-Seed*, the prison context posed challenges for casting Ariel, leading Atwood to make Ariel an alien instead of a fairy.
Atwood and the interviewer reflect on Prospero’s moral journey in *The Tempest*, noting that Ariel prompts him to show mercy.
They explore the idea that Prospero realizes he must forgive others and be forgiven, leading to his appeal to the audience at the end.
Atwood's book explores the theme of prisons, where every character is metaphorically or literally imprisoned.
The concept of Caliban being Prospero’s child is discussed, and Atwood humorously questions who Caliban's father might be.
The discussion ends with Atwood joking about winning the Swedish Humor Award, though she never received the actual trophy.
Atwood reflects on *The Tempest* as a play about governance, comparing it to modern politics where leaders abdicate responsibility.
Transcripts
[Music]
welcome ladies and gentlemen my name is
Anthony Chameli no I'm the artistic
director of the Stratford Festival and
we're here on the Stratford Festival on
film series and today we are in
conversation with Margaret Atwood who I
think is everybody's hero and a
brilliant novelist and playwright hello
Margaret
hello thank you for doing this when we
put on the tempest in 2018 you were very
kind to come to Stratford and talk to us
a little bit about the book that you'd
written based upon the tempest called
hag seed now apparently you were one of
the first people through the gate on
this assignment that was coming out from
a publisher saying you can choose any
play of Shakespeare you like and and
make a parallel novel out of it is that
right that's that's exactly right yes
and why why The Tempest well I think one
reaches a certain age and after that age
The Tempest becomes more interesting
than it was before
because it is a sort of end of career
type of play I know that it wasn't the
actual end of Shakespeare's career but
that's how it's often read and it's also
the play in which Shakespeare comes the
closest to writing a play about what he
himself actually did because Prospero is
the producer director of the play within
the play called The Tempest so he has a
special effects guy that would be Ariel
and without Ariel nothing happens
because without Ariel there isn't any
Tempest so Ariel gets his orders and
does the special effects but it's
Prospero directing and like directors
he's invisible so it says in the stage
director directions enter Prospero
invisible how do you play an invisible
person so he is he is uh pulling the
strings of the other characters and he
has a plan and he sets it in motion and
he directs it so and then he comes
at the end and says here I am and he
addresses the audience and basically
unless you clap I'm gonna stay here on
this island Prospero in Shakespeare's
play Prospero so Duke in the production
we did with Martha Henriette Duchess but
in many ways there's these parallel
worlds the stage is the island the
island and the stage are both in
countries in some ways and these
different universes parallel each other
in your beautiful book hag seed you make
Prospero actually a stage director an
artistic director yes well and he's also
a director director like a lot of
artistic directors isn't that truth I'm
no comment yeah so he's quite obsessed
with his own genius and he isn't paying
any attention to a second-in-command who
does what Antonio doesn't the tempest
namely he usurps the position of the
Prospero figure and sends him into exile
so the play that's the back story of the
The Tempest the play and the backstory
of the hag seed is that this is what has
happened to the Prospero figure it was
called Felix and he works in a a theatre
festival not unlike one with which you
may be familiar in a town not not unlike
the one with which you are also familiar
so I have added a few pubs and things
that don't exist but they're like the
pubs that do exist yeah so it was a lot
of fun I had to solve the problem of
Miranda so if you're making prosper into
a modern day story what do you do about
Miranda it would be very creepy if there
was a man with the teenage daughter who
had never been allowed outside the condo
or wherever it is they're living and had
never seen any other people so therefore
she wouldn't have been allowed to watch
television or look out the window or
anything that just would have been
creepy
so my solution is also a bit creepy but
it solved the problem of the Miranda
figure can we talk about the solution or
will it be a spoiler it's slightly a
spoiler but well yeah you know beautiful
solution yes well I'd take the the clue
from something in the plant self in
which he says that they almost died and
if it hadn't been for her he would have
died at cetera and she was his preserver
etc etc as a child so in my book the
Miranda actually has died at the age of
three and he has he is imagining her as
because he's going off and he's a hermit
he imagines her as growing up at the
rate in which he would have grown up so
she is she is in the play but not in the
man she's in my book but not in the same
way that she's actually in the play so
then he decides to put on them his
tempest play at the job that he's
acquired which is as is as a theatre in
in prisons teacher and the coda to that
is that after I published this book I
got a message from somebody who actually
does teach theater in prisons and this
person said we want to take your book we
want to turn it into a play about a
person putting on a play in a prison and
we want to put it on in our prison and
they're doing it in st. Louis Missouri
so they're doing a play of a book about
a play and in the book the play is being
put on in prison and in real life
they're putting this play about my book
they're putting it on in a prison well
that's a box within a box within a box
within a box within a box series of
mirrors and reflections and it's a
beautiful kind of review of what
Shakespeare can mean to people in
prisons and having spoken to different
colleagues who run programs like that
the the people involved in it take it
very seriously they're very proud of it
even if they're having play a female
character they are they all
yeah it depends which female character
so Lady Macbeth no problem I did think
we might have problem with Miranda so so
Prospero brings in and outside actress
and I said to the guy putting on the one
in the prison what are you gonna do
about the Miranda said we're bringing in
an outside actions bus just as you do in
the book I felt that that was a great
idea because then it gave us a modern
Miranda exactly you know and in both she
has a tomboy you know it's pretty tough
physically and that log carrying saying
is usually no how do you play that when
she helps him pick up the logs well
actually she's quite a tough little nut
she's been running around all over this
island likely on her bare feet the play
has so much to say about about
empowering women with the three
goddesses that come in in the mask yes
they do yeah and Martha Henry when she
when she was speaking to us about this
said that as a run went on she she felt
like Shakespeare was actually talking to
the actor not just the character of
Prospero and revealing how much of it
was done for Miranda but that was oh
yeah he Prospero says that he says that
he's doing it all for her so to get back
for her what he feels she ought to have
I did a little piece for a food magazine
about what they're actually eating on
that island and when you lay it all out
you can see why they would want to get
back to the laughs yeah I think what
we're all going through that now aren't
we it's how much sour dough can you eat
in a very mild way Prospero says that
you know he Christ his books above his
kingdom and in reading your and we can
get sentimental about that especially
those of us who love books mmm thank you
yeah who cares about governance
who cares about governments and yet we
see in the world we live in today what
happens when the people who perhaps
should be governing abdicate and allow
others to take over yep there's no
there's no question that it's Prospero's
fault
he wasn't paying attention and
Shakespeare is quite clear about that
he'd obviously read his Machiavelli and
the duty of a prince is to govern
properly you know to pay attention to
the welfare of his people to make the
decisions that are going to be helpful
to his state and Prospero has kind of
blown that off and deputized way too
much so he gave his brother all the
power and then the brother came to feel
that it was there for his by right and
you capture the sense of those
politicians you know in modern-day
beautifully like they have this just
this ability to make whatever deal needs
to be made in order to maintain their
position or get up a rung so I'm
wondering and in the face of that and
the revenge plot that's there Lear says
the rarer action is in virtue than in
vengeance and it's so interesting he
says the rarer action not the better
action better is implied but the fact is
we don't do that very often in this case
Prospero does relent he does and guess
who makes him do it
the space alien yes so there was a
problem with Ariel in a prison context
it's nobody wanted to play a fairy but
if you make him an alien from outer
space it all makes sense well it is like
probably the first example of
science-fiction in some ways if you're
squint really hard sure because science
fiction came out of them among its
sources were a lot of folk tales as they
were for for Shakespeare so non-human
reflecting us is such an interesting
conceit yes it's it's it's quite
wonderful and it's one of the best
moments and the play as far as I'm
concerned so Ariel says look at how
these people are suffering if I were him
and I would shed tears
so that makes Prospero think well if
even you they're just sort of a
arey nothin feel that way how much more
should I feel that way so I will be a
good person now maybe that he's getting
himself into a time and of Athens corner
by being too generous we don't go on to
examine that the brother never says he's
sorry
brother we don't for admits that what he
did was wrong and Prospero is gonna get
a get back on him boat with him not only
that he's he's broken his stuff and
thrown away his book so he doesn't have
supernatural help anymore I wouldn't
have done that if I were him well you
get the sense that he's going in with
his eyes open he not only needs to
forgive others but he realizes he needs
to be forgiven why do you think he asks
the audience for forgiveness at the end
well that's a very interesting question
that's where I started when I when I
began to write hag scene so I I started
at the end of the play and I worked my
way backwards and that's how I ended up
with prison because everybody in that
play is in prison at one time or another
hmm even Miranda although she doesn't
know it so you have a series of prisons
and the final prison is the play itself
because the Prospero figure says unless
I am pardoned for my faults I will be
stuck in this prison which is the play
yes to get out of it right so that's
it's it's again boxes within boxes all
the way back to the beginning of the
play and I have Prospero the Prospero
figure Felix asked his students to count
the number of prisons they get eight of
them there's actually nine that's
wonderful that's wonderful as you good
Nana and look through this play to
realize how many boxes how many traps
yeah yes they come up with the idea that
that possibly Caliban is his prize
rose child so when he says this thing of
darkness I acknowledge mine what exactly
is he saying
and who was caliban's dad
we know that the mum was but who is the
dad and the amount you've got cigarettes
and prospero they do exactly the same
kinds of things absolutely you're right
they're just they're both Sorcerer's
sorcerer a sorcerer they are and they
both imprison Ariel so so maybe there's
maybe there was something more going on
than we know about look on that thought
we should wrap up this discussion we are
so fortunate to have you here in so many
ways everything you've done for the
theater everything you dumped your
Stratford and the stuff you continued to
do and you just keep on amazing us with
more Booker prizes are you going for a
third you know 80 I think maybe no my
money's on you well win some other thing
you probably didn't know that I've won
the Swedish humor award you didn't know
that did you
no no you didn't know there was one yeah
it's well I didn't either so I won the
Swedish humor award but I wasn't able to
actually collect it so my publishers
went to collect it it was it was awarded
in an amphitheatre that was open at the
top and it was raining so they got wet
and they got the Swedish humor award
which was a large crystal bowl engraved
but then somebody stole the Swedish
humor award so although I've won the
Swedish humor award I don't actually
have a Swedish humor award it's kind of
funny kind of that would thank you thank
you lovely to see you you
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