EP-090 王小帅:中国电影怎么了?
Summary
TLDR在本期的Bumingbai播客中,主持人袁立邀请了第六代导演王小帅,深入探讨了他在审查制度下的电影创作经历和挑战。王小帅分享了他的最新作品《肥沃的土地》在未经审查机构批准的情况下参加柏林国际电影节的背后故事,以及他如何在压抑的创作环境中坚持自我表达和历史真实。他对中国电影的现状和未来进行了深刻的反思,探讨了中国电影与国际标准的差距,以及创作者在表达自由和审查制度之间的挣扎。通过王小帅的个人经历和见解,节目旨在引发观众对中国电影及其创作自由的深入思考。
Takeaways
- 🎬 王小帅的新电影《沃土》在没有审查机构批准的情况下参加了柏林国际电影节。
- 📽️ 王小帅自1993年以来一直在与审查机关斗争,其作品多年来无法在中国公映。
- 🔒 尽管王小帅的电影从2004年开始对外公开,但像所有中国电影人一样,他也面临审查的挑战。
- 🎞️ 《沃土》背景设定在土地改革和大饥荒期间,探讨了为什么中国电影界未能像韩国那样产出一流的电影。
- 📜 王小帅在影片中聚焦于历史和历史中的小人物,反映出他对当前审查制度和自我审查的深刻思考。
- 🤔 对于未来,王小帅提出了自己与国家的关系,以及他对这种单向恋爱关系的看法。
- 🌍 王小帅通过参加柏林电影节,展示了他希望推动中国电影走向国际,突破审查限制的决心。
- 📚 在访谈中,王小帅推荐了几本对他影响深刻的书籍,包括雷蒙德·阿隆的《知识分子的鸦片》和《凯恩斯对哈耶克》。
- 💔 王小帅表达了他对电影的热爱与遗憾,尤其是对于那些因审查而未能与观众见面的作品。
- 🌐 尽管面临诸多挑战,王小帅仍积极寻求创新和合作的可能,展望中国电影的未来。
Q & A
王小帅导演为什么要将《肥沃的土地》带到柏林电影节?
-王小帅导演希望电影能够生存下去,并决定打开这扇门,就像他30年前做的那样,希望能够推动一些积极的变化。
《肥沃的土地》在中国未经审查机构批准就参加了柏林国际电影节,这代表着什么?
-这代表着王小帅导演愿意冒险,即使可能面临官方的压力和限制,也要让他的作品在国际上被看见,展示他对电影艺术的执着和勇气。
王小帅导演是如何描述他与中国电影审查制度之间的关系?
-王小帅导演将他与审查制度之间的关系描述为一场持续的斗争,尽管2004年之后一些电影得以公开放映,但作为中国电影人,他依然需要面对审查的挑战。
为什么中国没有像韩国那样生产出许多一流的电影?
-王小帅认为,审查和自我审查以及不利于创作自由的环境是主要障碍,这限制了电影的创新和多样性,导致中国电影在国际上的表现不如韩国。
王小帅为什么将电影镜头对准历史和历史中的小人物?
-他认为通过关注历史和小人物,可以深入探讨社会变迁和人性的复杂性,从而制作出有深度和共鸣的作品。
王小帅导演未来的计划是什么?
-尽管面临诸多挑战,王小帅导演依旧希望继续制作电影,探索新的创作方向,并期望能够在保留创作自由的同时回归中国继续他的电影事业。
王小帅如何看待中国电影的现状和创作者的困境?
-他认为虽然中国电影在票房上取得了成功,但审查制度和市场的限制抑制了创新和艺术表达,导致创作者面临重大的挑战和痛苦。
王小帅是如何处理他与中国的关系,特别是在他的电影事业面临审查和限制时?
-王小帅通过持续制作具有挑战性的电影,并勇敢地在国际舞台上展示他的作品,试图寻找和中国电影审查之间的平衡点,同时保持对电影艺术的热爱和追求。
王小帅为何强调电影需要“敲打这扇门”?
-他比喻电影创作和展示的过程为“敲打一扇门”,意在挑战现有的限制和规范,寻求更多的创作自由和表达空间,希望通过这种努力促进变革。
王小帅在电影事业中面临的主要挑战是什么?
-主要挑战包括审查制度的限制、市场对电影内容的约束以及如何在保持艺术真实性和创作自由的同时,让电影得以公映和被观众接受。
Outlines
🎥 电影制作与审查
本段讨论了导演王小帅的电影生涯,特别是他如何面对中国电影审查的挑战。他谈到了自己的最新作品《肥沃的土地》在未经审查的情况下参加柏林电影节的经历,并反思了自己30年前与审查作斗争的历程。王小帅分享了他为什么会坚持在艰难的环境中拍摄电影,尤其是聚焦于土地改革和大饥荒等历史题材,以及他对中国电影和电影制作者面临的挑战的看法。
🌏 国际舞台上的表达自由
王小帅在本段讲述了将电影带往国际舞台的动机和经历,以及这一行动对他和他的作品意味着什么。他表达了对当前中国电影环境的担忧,特别是审查制度如何限制了电影的创造和表达自由。王小帅还分享了他对未来中国电影行业的展望,包括市场化和技术发展如何可能带来正面变化。
🔍 历史与电影
在这一部分中,王小帅深入探讨了历史在他电影作品中的作用,以及为什么他认为面对过去对于一个国家来说至关重要。他分享了自己如何通过电影来记录和反思中国的历史事件,以及这对于理解当代中国社会有何意义。
📈 中国电影的市场与挑战
本段聚焦于中国电影市场的现状,王小帅对电影票房的看法,以及他认为影响创意和电影质量的因素。他批评了现行的电影审查制度和市场保护主义,认为这些政策限制了中国电影的创新和国际竞争力。
🎨 创作自由与技术进步
王小帅在这部分讨论了创作自由的重要性以及技术进步如何影响电影制作。他特别提到了AI和数字技术给电影创作带来的机遇,以及他对未来电影制作和国际合作趋势的看法。
🌍 电影的国际化与合作
在本段中,王小帅谈到了中国电影与国际市场的关系,以及为何跨国合作对于中国电影的国际化至关重要。他讨论了电影节的作用、文化交流的重要性,以及中国电影面临的挑战和机遇。
❤️ 对国家的爱:有待回应
王小帅在这一部分反思了他与中国这个国家之间的关系,尤其是在他作为电影导演的职业生涯中,如何经历了爱与不被爱的过程。他通过比喻来描述这种复杂的情感,表达了对未来的不确定性和持续的创作热情。
📚 文化与个人成长
在最后一段中,王小帅分享了对于阅读和电影的个人推荐,以及这些作品如何影响了他的思考和创作。他强调了文化对个人成长和理解世界的重要性,以及他对未来创作自由的乐观态度。
Mindmap
Keywords
💡审查制度
💡创作自由
💡沃土
💡历史
💡电影节
💡市场化
💡审查
💡表达
💡国际认可
💡自我审查
Highlights
王小帅导演介绍他的电影《肥沃之地》在未经审查机构批准下参加柏林国际电影节的经历。
王小帅讨论自从1993年以来与审查制度的长期斗争。
王小帅谈论在中国电影行业的审查压力下如何保持创作自由。
关于中国电影不如韩国产生一流电影的原因分析。
王小帅强调历史和小人物在他电影中的重要性。
讨论中国电影市场与审查之间的关系及其对创作的影响。
王小帅对当前中国电影创作环境的感受和评价。
王小帅揭示在审查制度下创作的心理压力和挑战。
探讨中国电影的国际化和在国际电影节上的表现。
王小帅对于中国电影未来方向和可能性的展望。
王小帅讲述个人在电影行业的历史使命感和责任。
讨论电影作为记录和反映社会历史的重要性。
王小帅对于中国电影审查的批评和个人经历的分享。
对于中国电影产业与市场现状的深度分析。
王小帅对中国与国际电影合作的看法和期待。
王小帅探讨个人与中国这个国家的复杂情感关系。
Transcripts
Hello everyone, welcome to the Bumingbai Podcast. I am the host Yuan Li.
This week we will broadcast my interview with the sixth-generation director Wang Xiaoshuai.
There will be a video version on our YouTube channel.
In the future, we will do video programs from time to time depending on the subject matter.
Recently The film Fertile Ground directed by Wang Xiaoshuai participated in the Berlin International Film Festival
without the approval of the censorship body. After that,
a widely circulated public account article on WeChat
was titled "Another movie destined not to be released in China." It
was shot at one's own expense in 1993.
Wang Xiaoshuai has been fighting against the censorship authorities since the days of "Winter and Spring".
He spent ten years underground and
the films he produced could not be released in China.
Although they went to the public after 2004,
like all Chinese filmmakers
He also needs to face censorship.
He said that when discussing ideas with other filmmakers,
the question he always thinks about is
whether it will be possible to make this film
. He said that he took Fertile Land to Berlin this time
because he wanted to do the same thing 30 years ago.
He wanted movies to survive,
so he decided to open this door. He
said that this situation started 30 years ago and it came
back half a century ago. It’s incredible.
In this interview,
Wang Xiaoshuai talked about his experience as a lens director
under censorship. Why did he choose to shoot
in such a harsh current situation ? The background is the fertile soil of land reform and the Great Famine
. Why did China not produce many first-class films like South Korea?
Why did he focus the film lens on history and small figures in history? What are
his plans for the future
and his relationship with Is the relationship in this country
an unrequited love relationship?
I hope that this conversation can help us answer a big question.
What is happening to Chinese movies?
What kind of struggles and pain are movie creators experiencing
under the surface prosperity?
I want to ask When you
decided to participate in this year's Berlin Film Festival
without the approval of the film bureau,
you should have known at the time what doing so would mean to the fertile soil, right?
We
who make movies all year round know this. Censorship and self-censorship
are followed by changes in the environment,
especially in the past few years.
In fact, I don’t know what others think.
From my perspective, it seems that the atmosphere is becoming more
and more oppressive and tighter
. I can feel it
, although I am not in the middle. Just take the film and submit it for review.
After this process, I feel that
once it is released,
the circle may come around again for
30 years. It may go back to the winter and spring days of 1994
or the bicycle in 2000. In this circle
, I don’t know whether it is spiraling up or going back.
The specific things
are because now we are asked to evacuate
, but there is currently no specific explanation
of what will be done
, but it may be based on the so-called film regulations or laws.
I won’t say that
any film festival seems to have problems if you don’t go there without Dragon Ball,
so I know these things,
but I think it’s still a concept of creation in my mind
, and I have formulated many, many current rules.
I think there is room for improvement
in the rules.
It is a place that really hinders creation.
It is also true that because of such a treaty of will,
it actually prevents movies from going out.
Regardless of whether the movie conforms to a certain ideology
, it is It will hinder this movie from going abroad,
because when Chinese movies always talk about going out,
you can't say that you are wishful thinking, and I will send you out.
You have to be the real audience. Audiences
outside China want to watch and accept a certain kind of movie
. It’s called going out.
You can’t say that you have to watch this movie.
People don’t like to watch it, and they can’t force
it. So I think this set of methods
must be an obstacle.
I think it is an obstacle.
Then I will try it and see if I can promote it. I immediately
said that I did such a thing myself
and went to eat a crab.
I didn’t expect that 30 years later
, I would circle back to the same point and go up.
I think it is really a pity
. That is to say, it is always
going up. It was a very, very promising situation,
and then it changed like this,
so I decided to say it
, let’s do it for the movie,
because what I am most regretful about? What
I am most regretful about is our friends who make movies.
Everyone celebrates the New Year every year. During the festival,
we are all in a big group. In the big group,
everyone is watching the new movie. When will it come out? How about it?
Really, I can’t stand it in my heart.
I can’t stand their earnest wishes.
So do you think there is that kid
? Ouyang Wenxin,
a little boy ,
he brings a recording to me
every year during the Chinese New Year and any holiday.
I am embarrassed to tell him what the current situation of this movie is.
I think it will continue like this when others have grown up, and
I feel very sorry inside.
I can’t let go. I hope you can let him know the hard work you put in earlier.
You can see the movie I acted in is released now.
You can do it like him with a small water gun
. You can tell the children that you saw the movie I acted in.
Actually, this is what I want. The
investment in production also includes our investor in the Netherlands,
because I think why the situation should change?
That is to say, when we cooperate with others, we have signed a contract, and there is a contract, and
the time and money they paid, etc., etc.
So can you share your inner thoughts when you finally made the decision?
It was
the moment when you said forget it, I won’t play with them anymore.
I don’t know if there was such a moment
when you made this decision. Of course it was. It has to be made under huge pressure
, so maybe all the judgments will ultimately revolve around the film itself
. I mean, because I think everything will change
. Sometimes I think back to the person I was 30 years ago and became an underground film director
. It’s an era of planned economy
, but as long as you insist on doing what you do, you’re not doing anything wrong. I think
then, in 2003, wouldn’t it be marketized later?
Has it changed again? Can we directors be allowed to make movies?
Then it will change. He said that
I think he is in our thinking and he should change in the right and good direction.
So after marketization, you see
the Chinese movie box office is so popular now. There are so many people in the industry
, so it stands to reason that he should If we go forward and open up more boldly and confidently,
then the market will be bigger.
Everyone hopes to surpass the United States. If you do this, you will definitely surpass it.
Because China has such a large population base
and so many people like to watch movies
, then I think it will also move forward.
Although I encountered such and such things in 1993 and 2000,
I said that maybe if I encounter it now,
what should I do?
Because I want a movie to let him survive ,
so it is equivalent to pushing the door open
or Knock on this door.
Knock on it.
Is there any response? Is there anyone
? Maybe this door will open one day. So
if you don’t have a movie to knock on this door
and don’t do it
, then this door may not respond
and it won’t change.
Then I I believe that 30 years later, I will return to this point
just like I did back then. I may be reckless
for the sake of movies
, and
everything will come back
at the Berlin Film Festival. It was also a public day at the Berlin Film Festival
, so I guess it is fate.
I think it may be possible. If I do this and
open the door,
I think it is my duty,
because I am a film maker and
I am only responsible for the film
. So I also want to especially change or promote
a good and truly sustainable policy
and form it. It is a truly positive interaction between
our management and our creative staff. Only when
everyone protects each other's responsibilities and duties
can we do a good job.
So that's all I can think of,
so I can only say let the movie exist first, right
? So
what kind of pressure did you and the production company face
after your movie was released at the Berlin Film Festival
? Is there anything official said
? Actually, I'm fine.
After I made this decision
, I actually On the contrary, the burden was put down
, and the decision
was not made. After much thought or in the process, it was very tiring.
Once it was released
, it was undecided and it was impossible to withdraw it.
The exam was already there,
and it was already hung up. In fact, I feel comfortable if
they want to put it on their plate.
I think fundamentally speaking,
I also feel that I didn’t make a big mistake.
I didn’t do anything wrong,
just make my movie.
I don’t know if you have memorized it now.
We don’t know yet
, but will you still be able to make films in China in the future?
Are there any pressures like
this ? This is something that has to be considered.
I mean, follow these regulations.
I can’t say what to follow. Just
follow the regulations.
If this is the case,
it seems to be. You are not allowed to make movies in the country for five years.
Do you not know
what other aspects of this fine
are there?
I also want to ask,
that is, there is a question that
I believe many people have asked you,
which is why China cannot be like South Korea and Japan.
There are many first-class movies
that you just said have gone out and
really gone out.
People are willing to watch your movies.
Some people even say that they are not as good as
Iranian movies that also have censorship systems. This
is an issue that many people discuss.
He is also a very knowledgeable person.
He is also using Iran as an example.
But in fact, I think soil is very important,
that is, you can really say that
you can occasionally grow a good seedling and a good tree
in the cracks of rocks.
But if you say Your real soil is fertile and
free of
air conditioners and rainy weather.
Then what grows is not a seedling.
It may be a real forest.
I think this is a basic logic and try to see that
we can't say it is
us though. It's a small fish movie.
In the world's entire movie landscape,
it can't rely on an occasional seedling to pop up.
Its follow-up is
really powerless.
The bigger it is, the larger the denominator is,
the more possibilities it generates
in terms of quantity. Qualitative change
, in fact, Korea is like this.
You don’t need to talk about Korea, it is equivalent to saying
that. In fact, Korean movies
were the fifth generation in the 1980s.
They were also very envious of China.
At that time, reform and opening up was booming.
Korean movies
and filmmakers have experienced them. At that
time, Korean films
fought a lot in order to
overturn the changes in
the censorship of Korean films.
We all know that there was the skinhead movement, and
everyone was very united.
In fact, the censorship of Korean films at that time was also very authoritarian
and very authoritarian. It was so powerful
that it gradually passed through some promotions.
Then after the promotion
, the themes were closely matched.
First of all, I think Korean movies are closely related to the themes.
Suddenly there are no restrictions.
That is to say, those things that may be very pornographic and explosive
are released all at once.
The world was shocked that
the gentle Koreans have this side of the underworld,
including the conflict between the north and the south,
etc. All these movies have come out
, then it is like the soil I said, it is nutritious,
the soil is free,
so people It is said that freedom is a lying soil.
First of all, you are a lying soil.
It is freedom that cultivates this lying soil. Then
let's start
. Then we are really
talking about this fortune.
The high-spirited fortune in the 1980s and 1990s
is worthy of vigilance,
right? It
’s a pity that this fortune has disappeared. On the contrary,
in
the early 1990s, at first
I thought I was a little seedling rising to the top.
Now I suddenly feel like
I’m back here again.
Suddenly I have changed. When I feel bored, I feel
very lonely.
It’s not like that time. I can
look forward to
the future
. What should I do if I suddenly feel down now
? What will the future look like?
At that time, I felt that in the 1990s,
we and the entire society were on an upward path
. Although it has passed We were in that special period
, but the economy was heading upwards.
When we returned to this point,
we returned to the current point.
I feel that I may be more confused than at that time,
and I am no longer in my twenties.
So
I thought of that. You said five years,
you are sixty this year to 57, 58 and five years,
right,
then you are over sixty years old,
over sixty years old,
yes,
this is
really the time
when I think about it, it’s really scary. In
fact, at this age,
if you are in good health
and have enough energy,
it is the best time
to create.
Yes, it is
true.
But movies are one aspect
,
there are too many people,
whether they are artists or intellectuals
. As a reporter
, I have been repeating this story over the past few years.
I have to say
this. It’s
really a little bit. How can I put it?
The feeling of tightening my heart
is
not like that time. No matter what the problem is,
there is nothing wrong.
What is there is that kind of exploration process.
You are letting go,
you are brave,
and even to a certain extent, your state of mind is free.
Now it seems to be tightened.
Everyone is tight.
What is the overall feeling of tightness? What it means
is that the heart is not at ease
and open, and
everyone is very careful
to put it away.
No matter what you do, you
will always be nervous.
As we just talked about,
Chinese movies
actually seem to be doing very well at the box office
. For example, the total box office of the Spring Festival Party in 2024
reached 7.844 billion
, which is a new
high
for the Spring Festival Party in the history of Chinese film. Some people will say that there is nothing wrong with Chinese movies.
Chinese people like to watch Chinese movies now.
Even Hollywood movies have been defeated by Chinese movies.
You guys People who complain about movies
are disappointed because they can’t produce works that audiences like.
How would you respond to such a statement?
This statement has been like this
for many years
. Of course, the box office is getting better and better
, or the overall box office is good.
Everyone talks about this problem
because In my opinion,
I have never been able to enter this kind of discussion and respond
because it is a common sense issue.
It means that no matter how old we Chinese are,
we are better
than others in the past.
Now I am better. You see, my box office this year has surpassed that of the United States.
I think why do we always do this?
Plus, I hope it is a real market.
For example, we are actually doing this in movies now
, although it is said to be market-oriented.
But in fact, it is a very special kind of marketization.
It is not truly open
. It is not really done by the market to
overcome the disadvantages.
In fact, it is secretly
like a kind of plan and protection in the name of the market.
For example, does American film have a
certain quota
? If it feels that it wants to make Chinese films better
, then it will do that
and then suppress American films to some extent
, and then it will have winners and losers. I think
this film has a prosperous market, a
truly prosperous market. You have to rely on the market to get to
the real market.
Why are you comparing it?
For example, every year, domestic films overwhelm
Hollywood films. It seems that only Hollywood films are the only ones.
In fact, there are also French films. , Italian movies,
and movies from all countries should come in
and create a real one
, just like Korean movies.
Korean movies are actually like the current box office scene. In fact,
it is really the movie itself and the entire people are conscious.
I think it is worth watching. When people really get up
, we haven't reached this stage yet
because I don't think our market is really fair and open now.
Also, the movies with the best box office in China
are basically the ones with more hits, right?
Anyway, that's it. Anyway, in the past few years,
everyone has seen
this phenomenon
. It is very obvious that
subjective intervention wants to influence the direction of the film.
Fortunately, in the past few years, it has been through the 20-year-old
China After marketization,
many directors came into contact with a lot of this.
For example, Hollywood production
has a lot of high-tech methods.
When they went to Hollywood to learn
and introduce high-tech
, it was very technical. The technology is very developed
, the hardware is very good
, and many production staff , including directors and screenwriters,
have learned good skills.
In fact, this set is relatively complete.
Therefore, if the entire collective
wants to create a No matter what kind of subjective thing you want to create,
the technical techniques are very simple and familiar.
So now
many of the mission-oriented movies
actually want to make it good-looking
, so in the past few decades, technology has Its progress
in business has also helped it.
Then let’s talk about the history in the film.
In 2017, you said in a speech that
a country needs to face the past.
History does not end
. It does not end if you can’t see it.
But you As someone who owns a camera,
it is our responsibility to record history.
Why are you so obsessed with history?
In fact, I am not a fan of history from novels,
because when I was young, no one liked history.
I felt that the future was very exciting in the distance
and I didn’t want to think about the past.
But in fact, I gradually evolved into making these films.
I think they are related to my family.
I followed my mother to Guizhou
since I was a child.
During that period of history, my father was there and
my mother was there. In those years
, from youth to there and then to middle age,
many people can't live without
it. Then several generations
are equivalent to saying that our generation
and the generation below have the next generation
. For example, like me,
they were born there. If it were early, even the grandchildren would have it.
I think it touched me deeply,
so I went to Beijing to study,
from Central American Fucheng Middle School to the Film Academy.
In fact, my heart was attached to that place, that place
in Guizhou,
that place. You were at that time At that time, everyone
was generally blocked from information.
I didn’t know that there was such a group of people and such a group of things
. Of course, China at that time knew
about the Beidahuang Educated Youth Cultural Revolution
and so on.
There were many such things , but this was the only one that no one knew about.
I thought it was strange
that
it was completely ignored when I mentioned it
, so I always wanted to wait until I had the chance to
line up everything I had experienced and
everything I had seen
. So this is another time I ranked Qinghong later.
In fact, once you finish filming Qinghong,
you won’t be able to stop the car.
I
’m lining up again and I’m lining up desperately.
Anyway, there’s no market and no one is investing,
so I’m going to find a way to get rid of
this thing in my mind. It is necessary to preserve it and
let everyone know that there is such a group of people
, including intruders, who
will reflect and repent of their previous lives when they are old.
I think this is particularly important
, although sometimes the third-line employees may
see me making this movie.
Sometimes I’m not happy
and say that Chinese people like to talk about the past and it’s over.
What are you doing? Yes,
everyone
, look forward.
Look forward.
Yes, look forward.
So I said it’s right to look forward
at that time.
Don’t let it go. Consider traveling
light in the past
, but if you take two steps, you can’t throw away this thing
. The history you have experienced
or the good or bad
impact it has caused on society or people
will still be there.
So I feel that anyway, I am just
because of the filming. We didn’t stop after one shot,
so we shot three.
But we couldn’t make it.
It was too difficult
because after all, few people knew about it and
few cared about it. For example,
there is some distance between
the history in your movie
, which means that this movie
is History is often your background.
For example,
the Tiananmen Incident in "Duan Chun Day", the
Cultural Revolution in "My Eleventh
Day", the
"Planned Parenthood"
in "Laid Off to the Sea", these people
are all of them. It’s a background
, but it’s a somewhat distant background.
How do you understand it
? It means
the role that history plays in your films.
I increasingly find that it’s
a human being. Once his thinking or personality is finalized
and fixed to a certain level, it’s very difficult.
So I think where did the change
come from?
It must be from his educational background
and growth background,
and he has been fighting for it all the way.
People definitely don't jump out of the cracks of rocks
. It seems that this personality is formed without a past,
and it must be continued
like this , so I
What I think is important is
that when we see
the various phenomena
in China now , we are very anxious
and find them absurd and unbelievable.
So
how did all this come about? This
is
not the way Chinese people are born.
It has a history. The background of China has shaped
the current situation of China
. Because people often talk about China’s five thousand years of civilization
and its culture,
I don’t think we should talk about it for so long
. At least these decades, more than
seventy years, more than seventy years,
and more
than seventy years. This has shaped
the character and characteristics of the Chinese people
in one generation
or several generations,
including the shape of the country
and so on. I do
n’t think you can just say this
and let it go
. It won’t work
if you don’t think about it carefully.
If you don’t sort this out carefully,
I think it’s still not possible.
So although
this history is very short
, in fact, if you look at
it,
I will be considered a young man
from the time when I plan to complete my business.
I will also think about
how much I have seen China as a whole.
Ten years of changes
, then I have my opinions,
my attitude,
and my views.
I think that if you condense it,
it can be nothing more than a small period of our
experience
. It is so similar to me, Eleven, Qinghong,
we were all at that time.
The period I experienced when I was a child disappeared
later. Immediately,
that period of history disappeared
and was reorganized.
Then it was thrown
into the smoke city of history
. What should I do?
It’s because the people are too good
and the people are powerless
. We are unable to say what we want to strive for.
We have to look at
everything about
us again.
No one can say
it. Let’s summarize
how
you are now. It seems that you have made contributions
or grievances.
How can we have a good talk
?
So I think
the movie is a
movie camera
, which may be an eye
or a light magic tool
or a soft thing
to face them.
That is to say,
because of the development of many societies,
they can no longer see them
. You are struggling
and living by yourself,
and no one cares and sees
this camera. Get close to them,
get so close to them, care for them,
and say yes.
Look, there is at least one camera.
There is a man named Wang Ershuai who
has not forgotten all this.
Let's all take care of each other.
In fact, just keeping warm
can't change anything.
But this kind of care and concern
is
a combination of our care
for reality and the past . If we have more care,
we can discuss this matter more
, or we can benefit from
the slow social development.
If the rights and interests of individuals and families
can be more protected
or taken over a little bit
, then this is a function that culture and art
can tell that
can change a little bit.
I just think so
. Let's talk about the future
. Are you in the epidemic situation? During this period, I moved to Thailand
and even filmed a movie there
. Hotel.
After this Fertile Land went to Berlin to participate in the exhibition,
I just asked
you if you can still return to China to film.
What are your plans next?
This hotel is also special
because of the epidemic, and then we I was trapped there.
I was trapped
in Qingmai
for about half a year.
So at that time,
I thought it was quite fun to
make a movie like this. It
was not impossible. It was a
revelation. It was a revelation . So until now, this thing happened
, but this thing is not that it is. It was expected.
Since you said you did it, you had expected it,
but you didn't wait for the policy changes
or all the changes.
Then there was no way to create this situation.
But
for me,
it's not a reaction force.
Sometimes
Sometimes you have been pursuing
freedom in creation, and
you can create freely
, but
the external environment prevents you from doing this .
Just like a lot of times, lightning
often strikes us and we chat.
I want to shoot this. Can it pass
? Can you pass it
? Every idea that has stopped blocking you
every moment
is very painful.
Originally, creation is a process of freedom,
a process of free expression of
your thoughts and thoughts.
As a result, every time you come up with an idea,
you get stuck or get stuck by others.
I think it’s quite painful to be
stuck . So no matter what the situation is,
if
you are passive,
active, or
forced, it
is not impossible
for you to pursue the freedom you think.
In fact, in the entire world, your communication when watching
movies is
becoming more and more international
. In
the past, French movies
and Italian movies were often co-produced by many
countries.
This is also a trend that we
have to face in the future
, because it is difficult for a single country to undertake a movie.
They all
need everyone. Only by combining resources
can we protect and produce such films.
It does not mean
that he has to challenge the market
to meet the market. The market
is getting worse and worse
. Do you think there
will be more and more cooperation with each other
? If this part of our Chinese films
is to If you want to go out,
you have to face this.
Several Chinese and Hong Kong films
at the Berlin Film Festival
are co-produced in several places,
so it is very likely that this film trend will be in the future.
You are a Chinese director
with a Chinese face
, but you can make
whatever you want. You only need to be talented
when shooting
, so I think if you can be active and passive,
I think it will be the fastest
if you can experience
the freedom of making movies.
And I also think
that AI has come in again.
Artificial intelligence has come in again
, and all the technologies
at that time were When the film age ended and
the digital age came in,
it has liberated a lot.
That is to say, you can take a digital camera
or even an iPhone or anything.
You can take
moving images
. You can't stop this trend
and the changes in vision.
Nowadays, AI and even plain-screen short dramas
, so how do you face this new change? You
can’t go back to 30 years ago
and stand alone.
I still have to be like that.
I still have to jam your thoughts
and your behavior of making movies.
You are not allowed to do this. You are not allowed to do this. That
would be unrealistic.
If we adjust early to
be more tolerant and more confident,
on the one hand it will be good for creation,
on the other hand it will allow for
vigorous creation.
On the other hand, it will truly integrate
Chinese films into the world
. At that time, if we look at anything else,
for example, we surpass Hollywood. If you
watch
Piaolang
or something like that,
I think it will be real and
unstoppable.
If you try to block it,
I think you will fall further and
further behind .
Movies require the cooperation of many people
, and they require a lot of funding and market
If you stay outside,
how do you think about these issues?
Now this is actually quite challenging.
First of all, I
am not saying that I am 100% determined to stay outside,
because
everything seems to be impermanent.
I
just said if
Whether it is active or passive, if
there is a free choice,
I hope for both sides.
That is to say, I still hope
that I can return to China normally,
return to Beijing
, and still work in China
, because a director
can only be nourished by his own culture
in his own country. Only then
will he be able to make
a movie that is closer to the local atmosphere
. Of course, this is what I hope for most.
If it doesn't work in some circumstances,
then I have to face new challenges
. If I can still do it
without returning,
It doesn’t matter how many years you have been
making movies in China
, then I
’m going to have a new challenge
here. I’m going to find a way to see if I
can make movies that I think can be made
in such a passive situation
, because it’s true that now Chinese people Everything he saw outside
, everything he experienced
, even pure English movies,
in fact,
if he reaches this time,
why not give
it a try
? But you still want to
go back to China if possible
, but
now the freedom of creation
is getting less and less.
You can accept it. Whatever you do next,
it is unlikely that it will be released in China.
If you are really
who you are, you are a director who has been pursuing your own path
and following your own heart. You
are an auteur director
. You cannot go
through all kinds of censorship
and then film you. If you don't want to make something,
you are
a director who
is very aware of this problem. If you go back,
what kind of film will you make?
What kind of film can you make?
In China,
for example, we make some
films that are made by many directors
who have their own real emotional experience.
It's about life,
and I think there's still a lot of space,
because
for example, after I finish this,
I don't necessarily have to
focus on this theme again, because after
finishing the third-line filming of
the Blue and Red Trilogy,
I don't have the energy to do it again,
because It’s too tiring, right? Well
, I will also
have a new creative direction
. This creative direction may be
pure family love,
pure emotion, pure self
. In the current reality
in China ,
how to survive
, how to travel, etc.
, these are
all When I talk about these things, I think
it’s impossible not to do this even when
I review it
. So as long as
I can go
back, that’s how it is now.
I have to say something else.
Now, even if the economy is not good, it won’t work.
Even economists can’t say that the economy is not good
. If you want to reflect
the current social situation
, for example, yes,
you can’t even lose your job. You ca
n’t say whether
the economy is in recession. You can’t say that
my house can’t be sold
. You can’t say
too many taboos.
We reporters
all Tell me
that you just can't write a manuscript
, so don't talk about a movie. It's a
bigger creation like this
. Now that you are talking about this, you
are really stuck.
It's because you can't be emotional,
because now movies don't talk about
whether you can say anything.
The biggest issue
to discuss now
is to touch on emotional issues.
If you are not emotionally high
and are not positive, you
will have problems. So it
does not come from any
line or subject matter
, so this In
fact, I think everyone really needs to work hard
, that is, dare to touch it
, but there is a market problem
. People think that
things that are relatively gloomy do not sell for money
. It is a multi-faceted and mutual paradox
, which means that it turns out to be ideological. I
don’t want you to be gloomy.
Now it’s become a market.
It doesn’t require you to be gloomy
and inspirational.
It has to have something more positive,
so it’s sandwiched between you
. Of course, I said that movies don’t necessarily have to express emotions,
express low emotions, or
not.
But it’s
up to each director to decide
what he does.
So what you just said is right,
that is to say, once you go back and touch it,
even if it’s insensitive
but it’s dark, it won’t work.
This is a very, very unsolvable problem,
just like back then
. Like I said just now,
he said your simple point of view, I saw it.
I cut to this paragraph,
I cut to that line
, but it
still doesn’t work. The whole thing is still gray.
I can’t change it, and it doesn’t work anymore,
because the whole thing is what he thinks is gray
and gray. Well,
I'm speechless.
Let
me ask you one last question. What
Deutsche Welle mentioned in the interview with you was the
question a Chinese audience asked you
at the Berlin Film Festival.
He said that the chip was sent without being reviewed.
Will Berlin
be banned in China? The disease
has caused the chip to miss the Chinese audience.
Your answer won a round of applause from the audience
. You said this is like falling in love.
If one person desperately wants to love the other person,
the other person does not love you.
This sentence is useless.
In fact, it reminds me of a sentence in the 1981
story
"You love this country,
but does this country love you?"
I want to ask, is your relationship with this country
an unreciprocated love relationship?
In fact, we follow the stages.
I said that in the 1980s,
1990s, and the early 2000s,
it was really one.
Although it seems that the essence has not changed now
, in fact, the overall mood is at least high-spirited.
At this time, it seems that you have not discovered it yet.
Does he love you?
At least the two
of them can go on dates and hang out with each other.
Is it a two-way street
or a little bit of a two-way street?
That is no longer
the case now, but it is a little bit like that now
. That is to say, after so many years. After
so many years,
for us creators,
it is still like a heart that is in love
and wants to stay. We do
n’t want to lose the passion until that time.
We don’t want to lose everything that was vigorous and upward at that time. We
still want to push forward
, but it seems that
the situation seems to
be time. Times have changed
, so
what should I do?
It's like saying that if you are still that enthusiastic
and they do n't want
you anymore,
or they don't even answer your phone calls,
then how can this relationship continue?
Then it's best
to just be yourself
and live your own life. Just
be yourself
, because you are in this profession.
Your abilities are still there
, your energy is still there,
your ideas are still there, and
your eyes are still there .
In fact, the current technology
that you can touch
is still there. Helping you
can simplify the presentation of your idea.
So why not?
Why are you trapped?
In other words, maybe on the contrary,
you are heading for a freer world.
I feel that you are still young
and young.
It is great. It feels so
good to listen to it. Well
, we asked each guest to recommend three books
or films.
We have never had a film director on the podcast.
What do you recommend?
I want to
make a film, so I won’t recommend it
. I won’t recommend it
. I have recommended
so many excellent movies
, not just one or two.
If I look at the books,
I would say two
are non-fiction
and have had a big impact on me recently.
One of them is Raymond Aron's "The Intellectual's
Opium Condemned".
I'm sorry for the opium of intellectuals.
Raymond Aron, a French philosopher
, spent decades in his life.
In fact, he was quite lonely,
but he has always been
very lonely.
He did a relatively conservative
philosophy in France, which is very left-wing.
My family is very lonely
. There
is another one.
Why do you recommend him? Why do you like him
? Do you think you see your own shadow?
How
do you persist
in this kind of thing
? A little bit .
In addition, through people like them, we realize that
we are actually For many years
we have not been able to see this side.
We have been on the left
and have seen
more of
Sartre’s existentialism.
So I think this device really
only has time
for your own growth. The time is long enough
for you to slowly grow. Slowly recognize
the other side of things. In
this way, you can have a more comprehensive understanding
of the world or its changes
and your own self-reliance.
Another one is the
book Keynes vs. Hayek
, which
is equivalent to combining
Keynes and Hayek. Putting these two together, Yeck, has been
a struggle
for decades.
Until now, although it is
impossible to draw a conclusion about
who is who on the battlefield
and who is not good
, but you will have a judgment
, and you will see the world
through this kind of
seeing in the future. The real changes
you experience are
what you read in the books
and then you form
your attitude
and your basic direction
and values.
This also has a great impact.
This is also something that
we were not exposed to in our
early years when we were studying.
On the other hand ,
there was no translation at that time
. There is
also a novel
about Yefu
, Yefu’s national certificate.
I especially hope that
more people can see it as soon as possible. He
will also have a national certificate,
right?
He seems to It has not been officially published
, but it has been published in limited print copies.
You can see it everywhere.
It’s great.
It may be sold in non-local bookstores in Chiang Mai.
I’ll advertise it.
I just wrote about it.
There are many others. I
won’t come. You can’t come
. Okay,
thank
you, Director Wang
, and thank you all for listening.
See you next time.
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