First Block: Interview with Ivan Zhao and Simon Last, Co-Founders of Notion

Summary

In this insightful conversation, Ivan and Simon explore the experimental nature of language models and the importance of creativity in technology development. They discuss their daily routines, emphasizing productivity, personal time, and the value of reflection. Both share their philosophies on work and life, with Ivan advocating for a 'start again' mindset and Simon highlighting the power of perspective in problem-solving. The conversation emphasizes the importance of empirical experimentation, self-awareness, and embracing new perspectives to foster innovation and creativity in both work and life.

Takeaways

• 😀 Emphasizing the value of experimentation and creativity in AI and language models, where unconventional ideas often lead to surprising outcomes.
• 😀 The importance of an empirical approach to testing ideas and techniques, where trial and error play a central role in discovering what works.
• 😀 Both Ivan and Simon adopt routines that include exercise, minimal meetings, and a focus on productive work time, such as coding and deep thinking.
• 😀 Ivan prefers practical meals, like burritos, over fancy dinners, which reflects his straightforward and efficient lifestyle.
• 😀 Simon values time for self-reflection and productivity, focusing on essential meetings and enjoying quality time with his wife in the evenings.
• 😀 The idea of 'starting again' is central to long-term success, enabling continuous motivation by resetting goals and embracing fresh perspectives.
• 😀 The concept of 'Perspective' is key to unlocking creativity, as viewing challenges from different angles helps generate innovative solutions.
• 😀 The speakers value coding and technical work, but also appreciate the significance of stepping back from work to ensure a balanced life.
• 😀 They stress the importance of learning from mistakes and embracing a mindset of constant growth and adaptation in both personal and professional aspects.
• 😀 Both Ivan and Simon have found that reading, especially in small time frames like before bed, helps with personal growth and consuming information.
• 😀 The conversation underlines the idea of evolving through trials and learning from failures, which is a crucial element of building successful ventures.

Q & A

What is the importance of empirical thinking in the context of AI and language models?

Empirical thinking in AI, especially with language models, emphasizes the value of testing and experimenting with ideas before drawing conclusions. This approach encourages open-minded exploration and allows for unexpected solutions to emerge, highlighting the significance of trying out unconventional techniques and observing their results.

How do the speakers view the process of experimenting with new techniques in their work?

The speakers see experimenting with new techniques as a key part of their work, particularly in the tech space. They believe that creativity and exploration are highly rewarded, and they regularly test new ideas, even if they seem unconventional, which can often lead to surprising and successful results.

Why is the term 'empirical' repeatedly used by the speakers?

'Empirical' is used frequently to emphasize the idea that results in AI and language models can only be verified through direct experimentation. It signifies that any hypothesis or technique should be tested in practice rather than assumed to be correct, reinforcing the trial-and-error nature of innovation.

What are the daily routines or rituals of Ivan and Simon?

Ivan's routine includes drinking vitamin water given by his mother, exercising, showering, and heading to work. He also enjoys a burrito over fancy dinners. Simon's routine involves exercising or strength training, followed by a productive workday focused on coding. Both value their personal time, with Simon winding down with evening walks and reading before bed.

How do the speakers manage their workday, especially regarding meetings?

Both speakers are selective about attending meetings. Simon prioritizes meetings where he can add value, saying no to those he considers unnecessary. This focus allows him to dedicate more time to deep work, particularly coding, while still being involved in important discussions.

What is Simon’s approach to productivity and focus at work?

Simon values mornings as a time for productivity and tries to remain focused during these hours. He also makes a point of avoiding unnecessary meetings, ensuring that his time is spent on high-priority tasks, like coding and problem-solving.

What role does self-awareness play in the speakers' problem-solving approach?

Self-awareness is critical in their approach to problem-solving. Both Ivan and Simon believe that being conscious of one's perspective allows them to discover new solutions. Ivan mentions the importance of seeing different versions of the truth, and Simon emphasizes the ability to reset and start anew when tackling challenges.

What would Ivan and Simon title a book about their careers?

Ivan would title his book 'Perspective,' focusing on the idea that different viewpoints lead to better problem-solving. Simon would title his book 'Start Again,' highlighting the importance of resilience and reinvention in a long, challenging career, especially in tech.

How do Ivan and Simon maintain a work-life balance?

Both prioritize personal time alongside their work. Ivan enjoys simple pleasures like burritos and spending time with family, while Simon makes time for evening walks with his wife and uses bedtime to read and unwind. This balance helps them stay refreshed and focused in their professional lives.

Why does Simon prefer reading on his phone rather than a Kindle?

Simon prefers reading on his phone because he finds it more convenient and effective, especially when traveling. He mentions that the phone has lower latency compared to a Kindle, making it easier to read in a more seamless, uninterrupted manner.