89. Listen, Listen, Listen: How to Build Deep Connections

Summary

Dans cet épisode du podcast 'Think Fast Talk Smart' de l'école de commerce de Stanford, Matt Abrahams reçoit Rachel Greenwald, experte en communication et en construction de relations dans le monde des affaires et de la vie amoureuse. Rachel partage des conseils pour améliorer les compétences de conversation, notamment pour éviter la collecte de données ennuyeuses lors des petits talks et pour rendre ces échanges plus intrigants et mémorables. Elle évoque également des techniques pour commencer et terminer les conversations, l'importance de l'écoute active et la mise en place d'une atmosphère favorable à la communication, inspirée par le travail de Priya Parker. Le podcast met en lumière les bonnes habitudes de communication et comment éviter les pièges courants pour établir des connexions plus profondes et significatives.

Takeaways

• 🤝 L'importance de la petite conversation dans la construction de relations, tant dans le milieu professionnel que dans la vie personnelle et romantique.
• 🧐 Éviter de devenir un 'collecteur de données' lors des échanges, en posant des questions prévisibles et ennuyeuses, et au lieu de cela, être intriguant pour susciter l'intérêt de l'autre.
• 🎲 Utiliser des indices et des jeux de déduction pour rendre les échanges plus amusants et mémorables, comme dans l'exemple des 'deux indices' pour éviter la réponse directe à une question.
• 💡 La notion d'intérêt et d'engagement dans la conversation, en transformant des échanges factuels en des opportunités d'intriguant et de captiver l'attention de l'autre.
• 🌟 Pour démarrer une petite conversation, faire une observation sur l'environnement partagé plutôt que de poser une question, pour créer une connexion instantanée.
• 🏁 Utiliser la 'drapeau blanc' pour conclure une conversation, en posant une dernière question et en donnant un compliment sincère avant de se retirer.
• 🔄 L'effet de récence en psychologie sociale, qui met en évidence l'importance de terminer une interaction sur une note positive pour que l'expérience soit perçue comme agréable.
• 💭 La communication efficace repose sur la façon dont on rend l'autre personne se sentir, plutôt que sur les mots que l'on prononce.
• 🤔 L'importance de la curiosité sincère et de l'intérêt authentique pour les histoires et les compétences des autres, plutôt que de se concentrer sur ses propres récits ou qualifications.
• 😂 L'utilisation de la légèreté et du badinage dans les conversations pour alléger l'atmosphère, tout en étant conscient des risques d'un humour excessif qui peut empêcher une connexion profonde.
• 🚫 Les mauvaises habitudes de conversation, comme être le 'miroir' qui se contente de renvoyer des expériences similaires, ou l''interrompeur' qui coupe l'autre avant qu'il n'ait fini sa phrase.

Q & A

Quel est le métier de Rachel Greenwald et comment cela se rapporte-t-il à la communication stratégique et à la construction de relations?

Rachel Greenwald est une conseillère en match-making et en coaching pour le dating, ainsi qu'une experte en communication et en construction de relations dans le travail, l'amour et la vie. Elle est également enseignante à l'école de commerce de Harvard et a co-animé un séminaire à l'Université Stanford.

Quelles sont les compétences que Matt Abrahams enseigne dans le cadre de la communication stratégique?

Matt Abrahams enseigne la communication stratégique à l'École de commerce de Stanford, où il aborde des sujets tels que la manière de former des relations, de parler efficacement et de penser rapidement pour communiquer efficacement en divers contextes.

Pourquoi est-ce important de ne pas être un 'collecteur de données' lors des échanges de petites conversations?

Il est important de ne pas être un 'collecteur de données' car cela rend les conversations prévisibles et ennuyeuses, ce qui est l'ennemi de la petite conversation. Au lieu de cela, l'objectif devrait être de devenir intriguant pour susciter l'intérêt des autres.

Quelle est la différence entre une question de 'collecte de données' et une question intrigante lors d'une petite conversation?

Une question de 'collecte de données' est prévisible et standard, comme 'Que faites-vous ?' ou 'Avez-vous des frères et sœurs?'. Une question intrigante, cependant, est inattendue et engage l'autre personne à s'impliquer davantage, comme donner des indices pour que l'autre puisse deviner son métier.

Comment Rachel Greenwald suggère-t-elle de démarrer une petite conversation?

Elle suggère de faire une observation sur l'environnement partagé plutôt que de poser une question. Cela permet de créer un sentiment de familiarité instantanée et d'ouvrir la porte à une conversation plus profonde.

Quel est le concept de 'drapeau blanc' utilisé par Rachel Greenwald pour conclure une petite conversation?

Le 'drapeau blanc' est une technique où, avant de quitter une conversation, on pose une dernière question et on offre un compliment sincère. Cela permet de conclure la conversation sur une note positive, en se rappelant l'effet de récence qui influence la manière dont on se souvient d'une expérience.

Quelle est l'importance de se concentrer sur la façon dont on rend quelqu'un se sentir plutôt que sur les mots que l'on prononce?

Se concentrer sur la façon dont on rend quelqu'un se sentir permet de créer une connexion plus profonde et de laisser une meilleure impression. Cela est valable aussi bien dans les relations romantiques que professionnelles.

Quelle est la différence entre l'utilisation d'humour et de 'badinage léger' dans une conversation selon Rachel Greenwald?

L'humour peut être stressant et mettre la pression sur une personne pour être drôle. Le 'badinage léger' est moins contraignant et permet tout de même d'alléger l'atmosphère de la conversation.

Quels sont les '13 mauvaises habitudes de conversation' identifiées par Rachel Greenwald?

L'une des habitudes est 'Le Comédien', qui utilise l'humour comme un bouclier empêchant de créer une connexion profonde. D'autres habitudes incluent 'Le Miroir', qui reflète les expériences de l'autre personne au lieu de créer une véritable connexion, et 'L'Interrupteur', qui coupe la parole à l'autre personne.

Quel conseil Rachel Greenwald donne-t-elle pour obtenir des retours sur ses compétences en communication?

Elle conseille d'obtenir des retours d'autrui car nous ne sommes pas les meilleurs juges de nos propres compétences en communication. Les autres peuvent nous le faire savoir si on les interroge.

Pourquoi Rachel Greenwald admire-t-elle la personne qu'elle a choisie et en quoi cela se rapporte-t-elle à la communication?

Elle admire Priya Parker pour son approche de la préparation et de la mise en place de l'ambiance avant une réunion ou une conversation, ce qui est essentiel pour la communication réussie.

Quels sont les trois ingrédients clés d'une recette de communication réussie selon Rachel Greenwald?

Les trois ingrédients clés sont l'écoute active, l'écoute active et encore l'écoute active, soulignant l'importance de comprendre et d'encourager l'autre personne à s'exprimer pleinement.

Outlines

00:00

😀 Création de relations et petite conversation

Matt Abrahams, enseignant à l'école de commerce de Stanford, accueille Rachel Greenwald, experte en communication et coach en matière de relations amoureuses et professionnelles. Ils discutent des compétences nécessaires pour créer des relations et améliorer la petite conversation, un aspect souvent difficile des relations. Rachel partage ses conseils pour rendre la petite conversation plus intéressante et moins prévisible, en suggérant de ne pas se limiter à des échanges de données banals et de chercher à être intriguant pour susciter l'intérêt de l'autre.

05:02

🗨️ Début et fin de la petite conversation

Rachel Greenwald propose des techniques pour démarrer et terminer une petite conversation de manière naturelle. Elle suggère de commencer avec une observation de l'environnement pour établir une connexion, plutôt que de poser des questions. Pour conclure, elle recommande la 'drapeau blanc', une technique inspirée de la course automobile où l'on pose une dernière question pertinente avant de partir, suivi d'un compliment sincère. Cela permet de terminer la conversation sur une note positive, en utilisant l'effet de récency pour quitter l'interaction sur une impression favorable.

10:03

💬 Communication efficace et initiation de relations

La conversation se poursuit avec des conseils de Rachel sur la communication efficace dans les contextes romantique et professionnel. Elle insiste sur l'importance de se concentrer sur la façon dont on rend quelqu'un se sent plutôt que sur les mots utilisés. Rachel souligne que la plupart des gens oublieront ce que vous avez dit ou fait, mais jamais comment vous les avez fait sentir. Elle recommande également de montrer un véritable intérêt pour les histoires et les compétences des autres, plutôt que de chercher à les impressionner avec les vôtres.

15:03

😄 L'utilisation de l'humour et les mauvaises habitudes de conversation

Rachel discute de l'utilisation de l'humour et de la légèreté dans les conversations pour alléger l'atmosphère, tout en avertissant des risques potentiels, comme l'emploi excessif de l'humour qui peut empêcher une connexion profonde. Elle partage également ses recherches sur les 13 mauvaises habitudes de conversation, dont 'le comédien', qui utilise l'humour comme un bouclier éloignant les autres. D'autres habitudes comme 'le miroir' et 'l'interrupteur' sont également mentionnées, montrant à quel point il est important de se concentrer sur la façon dont on rend l'autre personne se sent pendant la conversation.

20:04

📚 Conseils de communication et préparation

Pour conclure l'épisode, Rachel reçoit trois questions standard. Elle suggère que le meilleur conseil de communication est de chercher des retours, car nous avons tous un 'point aveugle' dans notre communication. Elle admire Priya Parker pour son approche de la préparation et de la mise en place de l'atmosphère avant une interaction. Enfin, elle identifie les trois ingrédients clés d'une communication réussie comme étant l'écoute active, à l'exclusion de tout autre, soulignant que la communication réussie repose sur la capacité à écouter plus que sur la capacité à parler.

Keywords

💡Communication

La communication est le processus par lequel les individus échangent des informations, des idées ou des émotions. Dans le script, c'est le thème central autour duquel tournent les conseils de Rachel Greenwald sur la manière de construire des relations, que ce soit dans le milieu professionnel ou personnel. L'importance de la communication est soulignée par l'accent mis sur l'écoute active, la réciprocité et la manière de se faire aimer par autrui.

💡Relation building

Le terme 'relation building' fait référence à l'art d'établir et de maintenir des relations solides avec les autres. Dans le script, Rachel Greenwald partage des compétences clés pour aider à construire des relations, en soulignant que les interactions initiales et l'utilisation de questions intrigantes sont essentielles pour établir un lien.

💡Small talk

Le 'small talk' désigne les conversations superficielles ou les échanges de politesses courantes. Le script traite de la manière de transformer le small talk en une interaction plus profonde et intéressante, en évitant les questions de type 'collecteur de données' et en cherchant à être intriguant et à susciter l'intérêt de l'autre.

💡Intrigue

L'intrigue est un élément clé pour captiver l'attention de quelqu'un et le motiver à en savoir plus. Dans le contexte du script, Rachel Greenwald conseille de poser des questions et de donner des réponses qui sortent de l'ordinaire pour créer de l'intrigue et rendre les conversations plus mémorisables et agréables.

💡Data collector

Un 'data collector' est quelqu'un qui pose des questions de type 'fichier', comme 'd'où viens-tu?' ou 'que fais-tu?'. Le script met en garde contre cette approche en small talk, car elle peut être ennuyeuse et ne pas encourager une connexion authentique avec autrui.

💡Observation

L'observation fait référence à l'acte de remarquer ou de constater quelque chose dans son environnement. Dans le script, Rachel suggère d'utiliser des observations pour initier des conversations en small talk, ce qui permet de créer un sentiment de familiarité instantanée et de connexion avec autrui.

💡White flag

Le 'white flag' est une technique de fin de conversation décrite dans le script. Cela simule le drapeau blanc utilisé dans les courses automobile pour indiquer qu'il reste un dernier tour. Rachel Greenwald recommande d'utiliser cette stratégie pour conclure une conversation en small talk de manière agréable et positive, en posant une dernière question et en laissant une impression favorable.

💡Recency effect

L'effet de récency est un concept de psychologie sociale qui indique que les expériences récentes ont plus d'impact sur notre évaluation globale d'un événement. Le script mentionne cet effet pour souligner l'importance de terminer une conversation sur une note positive, afin d'augmenter la perception globale de l'interaction.

💡Humor

L'humour est un outil puissant pour détendre l'atmosphère et établir une connexion. Cependant, le script met en garde contre les tentatives forcées d'être drôle, recommandant plutôt l'utilisation de 'light banter' pour alléger le ton de la conversation sans mettre de pression excessive sur soi-même pour être humoristique.

💡Feedback

Le feedback est essentiel pour améliorer ses compétences en communication. Le script insiste sur l'importance de demander des commentaires aux autres pour identifier ses propres zones d'amélioration, car il est souvent difficile de se juger soi-même en matière de communication.

💡Pre-communication

La pré-communication fait référence à l'idée de définir l'ambiance et le ton de l'interaction avant qu'elle ne commence réellement. Le script cite Priya Parker et son approche de 'The Arts of Gathering', qui met l'accent sur la préparation et la mise en place d'un contexte pour que les conversations soient plus significatives et efficaces.

💡Active listening

L'écoute active est une technique de communication qui implique de ne pas simplement attendre son tour de parler, mais de se concentrer sur ce que dit l'autre personne. Dans le script, l'écoute active est soulignée comme un élément clé de la communication réussie, en encourageant les questions de suivi et en laissant l'autre personne développer ses pensées.

Highlights

Matt Abrahams introduces Rachel Greenwald, an executive fellow at Harvard Business School and professional matchmaker and dating coach.

Rachel emphasizes the importance of not being a 'data collector' during small talk to avoid boredom.

She suggests being intriguing by asking better questions and giving unexpected answers to common questions.

Rachel provides an example of turning a boring question like 'what do you do?' into an intriguing guessing game.

Matt discusses the application of engaging and building intrigue in work conversations, not just in dating.

Rachel explains how to start small talk by making an observation about the environment.

She introduces the 'white flag' technique for ending small talk gracefully.

The importance of the 'recency effect' in ending conversations on a positive note is highlighted.

Rachel advises daters to focus on how they make someone feel rather than on their own words.

She emphasizes the importance of genuine interest and active listening in communication.

Rachel discusses the use of light banter instead of humor to lighten the mood in conversations.

She warns against the overuse of humor as a shield that can prevent deeper connections.

Rachel describes 'the mirror' as a bad conversation habit where one person constantly mirrors the other's stories.

She mentions other bad conversation habits such as interrupting and humble bragging.

Rachel stresses the importance of making the conversation partner feel good and heard.

She shares the best communication advice she's received: seeking out feedback to identify blind spots.

Rachel admires Priya Parker for her work on setting the tone for gatherings and the importance of pre-communication.

The first three ingredients for successful communication according to Rachel are listening, listening, and listening.

Transcripts

Forming relationships can be very

challenging at work,

in our personal lives,

in our romantic lives.

Today, let's learn some skills to

help us.

I'm Matt Abrahams and I teach

Strategic Communication at Stanford

Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to

Think Fast Talk Smart The Podcast

[MUSIC]

I am super excited today to speak

with Rachel Greenwald.

Rachel is an executive fellow at

Harvard Business School in

interestingly a professional

matchmaker and dating coach.

She's an expert on communication

and relationship building in work,

love, and life.

At Stanford University,

she's co-taught a seminar with past

guest, Tina Seelig at the D school

called Designing For Love.

She also guest lectures with two of

our other previous guests, Alison

Wood Brooks and Naomi Bagdonas.

Welcome Rachel, thanks for

being here.

>> Hi, Matt.

I am so excited for

our conversation today.

>> I am too.

Let's go ahead and jump right in.

You help people build relationships

in two very different arenas.

You coach executives in

the business world and you coach

singles in the dating world.

What have you learned about one of

the most challenging aspects

of relationship building small talk

that applies to both worlds.

And how do you make small talk feel

more comfortable when meeting

someone at work or on a date?

>> One big thing that I've learned

about creating successful small

talk both at work and

on dates is simply this,

don't be a data collector.

So what I mean by that is

like asking, where are you from?

What do you do?

How many siblings do you have?

That is all so boring to ask and

boring to answer.

Well, in all my research I just

really discovered again and

again that boredom

is the enemy of small talk.

So many people default to those

predictable data exchange topics.

So no wonder everybody hates small

talk or dreads it.

So your goal instead should just

try to be intriguing so

that someone wants to lean in and

get to know you.

I always say that in the space

between the expected and

the unexpected, lies intrigue.

If you want to be intriguing,

you have to ask better questions,

and you have to give better answers

when someone asks you a boring

question.

So I'll try to think of

an example here.

Like, if you're on a first date,

and someone asks you a boring data

collection question like,

what do you do?

Always what everybody asks

the first thing.

So instead of just stating

the facts, like I'm an engineer,

you could turn it into

an intriguing guessing game.

That could sound something like,

what do I do?

Well, let me give you two clues and

see if you can guess.

I had to get a master's degree for

it and

it usually involves avocados.

So that's a very unexpected answer,

right?

It's intriguing and

what I like best about it is that

it immediately

signals to the other person.

This is not going to

be your standard, boring,

small talk exchange.

It's going to be

much more enjoyable and memorable.

It's just a better conversation for

both people.

>> I want to know what

kind of engineer uses avocados.

You've definitely got me intrigued.

But this notion of engaging and

building intrigue applies not just

in the dating world, but

I think in all of our interactions.

When we talk, it work about

a project we're on rather than just

giving the facts as you suggest,

we could make it intriguing,

we could share

the potential value it brings.

I really, really like that idea.

And it helps us as communicators

reframe the whole

purpose because as you said so

many of us dread small talk.

And if it becomes an opportunity to

engage and intrigue someone

that all of a sudden makes it much

more interesting.

>> Yeah, absolutely, just don't

try to collect data about the other

person, Just try to think that how

would I like to spend these next

few minutes myself?

I'm sure the other person feels

the same way.

Let's try to make this fun and

intriguing.

>> Absolutely,

when it comes to small talk, Rachel

in particular I find it and I know

many people find the initiation of

the small talk and how you get out

of the small talk, how you end it

to be really challenging.

Can you share ways you coach people

to start and end small talk?

>> Sure, absolutely

the the start and

the ending are the toughest part.

So if you're someone that struggles

with initiating small talk,

it's probably because you're

worried about finding that

intriguing question like we were

just talking about.

So if that's your obstacle,

then I'd say just forget about

asking a question entirely take

that pressure away.

And instead, think about

simply making an observation about

something in your environment.

So, an observation is essentially

a bid for connection and

it can create a feeling of instant

familiarity like,

sort of a conspiratorial vibe just

between two people.

So, what's an example?

Like you could say to someone

standing next to the networking

event, hey, that brownie over there

on the buffet should have a big

sign that comes with it that says,

this requires 75 minutes

on the peloton.

Something, just any observation it

doesn't have to be funny but

just something about your

mutual environment.

Can create a space where the two of

you can smile about something right

in front of you before launching

into the business of getting to

know each other.

So that's the beginning

of the small talk exchange that I

would suggest to make it easier.

And that ending is super important

also.

I use actually in coaching both my

daters and my executives at work,

I use this technique that I call

the white flag.

And the white flag is something

that people who know racecar

driving will probably recognize,

the white flag in a race car

situation is where somebody stands

at the finish line as the cars

are going around and around.

And the person with a white flag

right before the last lap of the

race will throw down the white flag

and that says the race is almost

over but there's one more lap.

So, for example, if you're at

a function, a party, whatever,

you could say to somebody towards

the end as you're trying to wrap up

your conversation, you could say.

Before I go get a drink,

I have one last question because it

was so great

hearing about your trip to Alaska.

I wonder if you have a favorite

hike to recommend in anchorage,

just in case I get out there

one day.

So then you listen to what they

recommend, their favorite hike, and

then as you're walking away you say

something like,

I really enjoyed talking to you and

by the way, I love your shoes.

So this is something that's

important to remember that ending

small talk is something in social

psychology that is called

the recency effect.

Where people will rate

an experience more positively

if the last part of

the experience is pleasant.

So ending your conversation with

this tactic like,

I have one last question, and

then Giving a compliment,

a sincere compliment, of course.

As you're walking away,

just make someone feel like you

were genuinely listening to them,

and by the way,

you admired something about them.

>> When you first said white flag,

I thought you meant surrendering,

like I'm giving up.

But I do know auto racing and

I do know the white flag analogy.

I really like that idea.

I can totally see how I could use

that in conversation to say,

I need to go over there, I need to

go do this, but before I do,

I'd like to learn one more thing.

I think that's a wonderful

technique.

And really reminding everybody

of the recency effect,

that is how we feel at the end

of an interaction really matters.

So doing something at the end

that's positive, I think, is great

rather than that awkwardness that

many of us feel where we just say I

need something more to drink and

step away from the person.

I really appreciate that advice and

I have an upcoming social event for

work, and I'm going to use that

technique right away.

In terms of starting, I like that

idea of finding some kind of common

ground or common connection.

I can imagine in a work function

talking about a keynote speaker or

a certain goal that was just

discussed as a way of getting

people to initiate

that conversation and

together be working towards getting

the conversation moving.

So very, very helpful, I took

copious notes on what you just

said, and hope to put them into

practice in the very near future.

I know you and

I talked about this once when

we first met each other, Rachel.

But when I was in grad school,

I published research on flirtation

and relationship initiation.

This is a topic that really

fascinated me then and

still fascinates me now.

And it was also really helpful

because I met my wife while I was

studying flirtation in grad school.

Now, as a matchmaker,

you help many people initiate and

start relationships.

What advice do you give daters

about effective communication?

And is there different advice

you give people who are seeking

romantic partners versus those who

are looking for platonic and

professional relationships?

>> Matt, it is exactly the same

advice in romantic or

professional context.

It's not different at all.

And the advice is simply to focus

on how you make someone feel more

than you focus on the words that

you're saying.

So that's reminiscent of that

Maya Angelou quote where everyone

knows this quote, I'm sure, but

people will forget what you said,

forget what you did, but never

forget how you made them feel.

So instead of, for example,

trying to impress someone with your

own stories or your credentials,

you want to lean into their

stories, their credentials.

And make them feel smart or

feel funny, or even just feel

accepted instead of judged,

which is how most people walk

around feeling every day,

as if everyone's judging them.

So you could have comments like

somebody tells you something and

say something, I don't know, like,

wow, I never would have thought

of doing that.

How did you come up with that idea?

So comments have to be genuine

though, that's really important.

You can't fake interest in someone.

People can smell a fake

a mile away.

So try to have in your head this

mantra that in every gathering,

every person in this room has

something to teach me.

And then your interest and

leaning into their stories will

feel more genuine.

You mentioned the word flirtation

in your question and

whether you use the word flirtation

in a dating context,

or whether you label it something

different in a work context,

like relationship initiation.

It's basically the same thing,

you're demonstrating that you're

interested in someone and

that you like them.

And it's a universal truth that

most people will like you if you

like them first.

>> I really like that advice, and

as I was listening to you, I was

reminded of my late mother-in-law

was an expert at small talk and

getting to know people.

When she would come to visit,

she would have to fly.

And the first half hour of our

conversations when she would arrive

would be about all the new friends

she made on the flight over.

And she had used what I heard one

of the techniques you were talking

about was genuine curiosity.

She was very interested in people

and really liked getting to know

people, and you could feel that.

And her superpower was being able

to ask the question, tell me more.

I'd like to learn more.

What more can you

tell me about that?

And she would use that all the time

to really get conversations going

and to signal that she was

really interested.

So I really appreciate what you

said, and I wish we would have

known each other back when I was in

grad school studying this.

You would have helped me really

hone in on the things I was

interested in studying.

You work closely at times with some

of our most popular previous

guests, Alison Wood Brooks and

Naomi Bagdonas.

My interviews with them looked

into humor.

And I'm curious to get your take on

using humor in conversations in our

personal lives and

our professional lives.

>> To me, the word humor

is always stressful.

And I think it is to a lot of

people too,

because it feels daunting, like

there's this pressure to be funny.

And I don't think of myself as

a funny person.

So I try to

rephrase that word humor,

and I coach people on specifically

using light banter in conversation,

which to me just sounds much

easier, less pressure-filled, and

it really accomplishes the same

goal, which is to lighten the mood.

So for example, we talked earlier

about finding observations in your

environment that are unexpected or

playful, and I think that's a great

starting point for light banter.

Observations could be something

like standing in a crowded room and

you turn to the person next to you

and he says something like,

I'm loving that woman's sweater

over there, it's so Madonna Circa

1985 or just something.

It doesn't have to be funny,

it's just sort of a light comment.

But as you bring up humor,

I also want to caution people that

there's a dark side to using humor

in conversations.

Most people don't think about humor

in any negative way, but it really

can be if it's used incorrectly.

So I conducted a ten-year dating

research project where I compiled

a list of 13 bad conversation

habits, and one of the bad habits I

found I called the comedian.

And the comedian is someone in

conversation who gets a lot of

laughs because they have jokes or

they are self-deprecating.

And at first, that's fun, but soon

your conversation partner might

crave a deeper connection than just

all the laughs.

And someone who's the comedian

can use their humor like a shield.

And your conversation partner can't

penetrate that shield, which will

feel frustrating to them.

You sort of feel

like as the conversation partner,

you're an audience kept at

a distance from the performer.

And the comedian always reminds me

of crashing after a sugar high if

you eat too much chocolate.

You might just suddenly afterwards

feel tired or unsatisfied.

And so you have to remember that

the goal of communication is to

create connection and

make a favorable impression.

So obviously,

you don't want someone to feel like

talking to you is exhausting,

because you're using humor too much

in your communication style.

>> I find the first point you made

to be really true.

When we try to be funny,

it just invokes so much stress.

So I like your reframing of, hey,

this is just light banter and

that takes pressure off.

And by taking pressure off,

I think it frees us up to actually

be Funnier and more connecting.

I am really curious to know,

you said you

found 13 bad conversation habits.

Can you just share with us two or

three more beyond the comedian?

>> Yeah, absolutely.

One of the most common bad habits

people have was something I called

the mirror.

And the mirror is the dynamic where

whatever you say,

the other person has a similar

story to mirror back to you, like,

wow, same thing happened to me.

They're just waiting their turn

politely until you stop speaking so

they can reflect on their

own relatable experience.

And that's understandable because

I think we're taught when you're

younger or maybe even in some kind

of sales training programs.

They teach you that you're supposed

to find a point of connection

where you can relate to somebody.

But actually,

I find it to be the opposite.

I find that, the mirror habit can

deflate conversational energy or

make it feel choppy.

So, the exchange can feel

superficial and

you don't feel heard.

There's all sorts of other

ones like the interrupter,

somebody who's just interrupting

you before you can finish your

sentence, and they try to finish

your sentence for you.

They're sure they already know

what they're going to say.

So they have that dirty four letter

word dynamic going on, the K-N-O-W,

and the other person just feels

annoyed, they don't feel heard.

So all these conversation

bad habits are really

about the feeling you create in

your conversation partner.

So whether you're

trying to be the one upper,

or you're the humble bragger, or

any of these 13 types that I found.

You are doing yourself a disservice

because you're almost trying to

impress the other person.

Like I can understand why they're

behaving the way they are, but

the end result is that your

conversation partner doesn't feel

good talking to you.

>> Thank you for sharing those.

And as you were going through each

of those bad communication

behaviors, I saw in my mind's eye

people who do those skills and

how they make me feel.

And the meta-message of what

I heard you share, Rachel,

is that we constantly have to be

thinking about how we're making

our conversation partners,

our coworkers, the people we're

interested in dating feel.

And not so

much focus on our particular goal

in that moment which is to share my

story as soon as you share yours.

And that is a wonderful reminder of

what makes for

effective communication,

be focused on the needs of

the person you're talking to.

Before we end,

I'd like to ask you the same three

questions I ask everyone.

Are you up for that, Rachel?

>> Yeah, I'd love it.

>> Excellent, I'm excited to hear

your answers.

If you were to capture the best

communication advice you've ever

received as a 5 to

7 word presentation slide title,

what would it be?

>> I would call this slide title.

Everyone knows it, but you.

>> Mm-hm.

>> What I mean by that, is that you

have a communication blind spot,

but you don't know what it is.

Everyone else knows and you don't.

So, maybe you even have more than

one blind spot,

but people are terrible judges of

their own communication skills.

They either overestimate or

underestimate them.

They have no idea how someone feels

when talking to you, so you're

the last to know unless you ask for

feedback.

So, this advice is all about

trying to get feedback, and

it's true in dating, and

friendship, and business, anything.

>> I didn't know where you're

going to take to your slide title,

but I love the point that we have

to seek out feedback.

We are not the best observers of

our own communication, so for

question number 2, who is

a communicator that you admire?

And why?

>> For that question,

I am going to pick someone kind of

out of the standard communication

arena and point to someone named

Priya Parker, who some of you may

know, others may not.

She's the author of a book that

is one of my all times favorite,

it's called The Arts of Gathering.

And her work focuses on

re-imagining how we spend our time

together to create more meaning.

So she is not specifically in

the field of communication,

but she talks a lot about setting

the tone for

a gathering before it even begins.

And this is a point on the

continuum of communication that I

think doesn't get enough attention.

And then I call that

point the pre-communicating point.

Which is the idea that

communication actually begins in

several ways even before you're in

the same space with someone.

And space cold be in person or

like he mentioned earlier,

could be a digital space like Zoom.

And even email or text, so

space is broadly defined, but

Priya Parker advocates that it's

important to set the tone before

you interact with someone.

So, is your upcoming conversation

or your meeting going to be fun?

Or do you want it to be serious?

Or is the emphasis on being

productive, whatever it is?

So, if you think about all

the communication that happens

before a business meeting like

calendar invites, or

even the first few minutes in

a Zoom window as people are logging

on before the meeting begins.

What if you created a clever title

for the calendar invite?

Or what if you played a theme song

on Zoom for the first 60 seconds

that reflects whatever your

intended mood is for this meeting?

I really like her because I think

in the big picture you can have

the best communication skills on

the planet, but

if people aren't primed to come in

being receptive to you it's

just really a missed opportunity.

>> I really like Priya's work,

I've read the book, I've heard her

speak, and this notion of setting

the table if you will,

priming people is really important.

We had a wonderful discussion with

Robert Cialdini about what he

calls persuasion, how you actually

get people in the right space for

you then to make the influence

requests that you have.

We don't spend enough time thinking

about the context for

the communication that we're about

to have, in highlighting

Priya Parker's work reminds us that

we need to do that >> Well,

you're going back to this social

psychology again.

And if you think about the primacy

effect, so the primacy effect is

that people remember the first

piece of information they

encounter, and that is better than

information presented later on.

So, pre-communication is difficult

to master,

but Priya Parker knows how this set

up future conversations for

success by communicating in advance

what she hopes to accomplish.

>> Absolutely, question number 3,

what are the first three

ingredients that go into

a successful communication recipe?

>> Well, I love that question.

The first thing that comes to mind

is the expression I'm going to

steal from real estate.

So [LAUGH] in real estate,

you probably know the advice for

buying a valuable property is

location, location, location.

So, I am going to say the same as

it's similar in communication which

is listen, listen, listen.

That is so important that it bears

repeating three times, so people,

whether it's business or dating,

they put so much emphasis and

communication on what to say.

But really successful communication

is about active listening.

And I use the word active

intentionally because I don't mean

just listening like stop talking or

be quiet or

let the other person speak,

but actively listening means things

like don't plan your next response.

Don't be listening to what somebody

is saying and secretly thinking

about how you're going to respond.

And active listening means,

ask follow up questions instead of

shifting the topic back to

yourself.

And probably most of all,

active listening is about

encouraging someone to elaborate.

>> I love those ingredients.

You know, Rachel,

I really thank you for

taking time to be with us and give

us very specific advice on how we

can connect better With coworkers,

potential romantic partners,

and platonic friends.

I appreciate your time,

I appreciate your input, thank you.

>> You're so welcome.

>> Thanks for joining us for

another episode of Think Fast Talk

Smart, The Podcast from Stanford

Graduate School of Business.

This episode was produced by

Jenny Lunar, Ryan Campos, and me,

Matt Abrahams.

Our music was provided by

Floyd Wonder, for more information

and episodes find us on YouTube or

wherever you get your podcasts.

Thank you, and

please make sure to subscribe and

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