How to Overcome Resistance — Seth Godin
Summary
TLDRIn this episode, Tim Ferriss engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Seth Godin, exploring topics such as the art of blogging, the importance of creating a 'vacuum' for new projects, and the impact of technology on various forms of media. Seth shares insights on his writing process, the value of consistency, and the power of simplicity in communication. The discussion also touches on the influence of notable figures like Isaac Asimov and the evolution of projects like VCR games and social networks. Tim and Seth delve into the nuances of creating content that resonates with an audience and the strategic decisions behind choosing new endeavors.
Takeaways
- 🔐 The importance of using a reliable password manager like 1Password to protect against data breaches and enhance online security.
- 💤 The impact of temperature on sleep quality and how 8 Sleep's Pod cover helps regulate sleeping environment temperatures for better rest.
- 🏆 1Password's recognition as Wirecutter's top pick for password managers due to its combination of security and user-friendly design.
- 📝 The significance of writing concise and impactful blog posts that provoke thought and discussion, as demonstrated by Seth Godin's approach.
- 🤖 The influence of Isaac Asimov's work and his hands-off approach to collaboration, which fostered trust and creative freedom.
- 🎲 The creative process behind developing interactive games, as exemplified by the VCR game collaboration with Isaac Asimov.
- 🚀 The value of creating a 'vacuum' in one's career to make space for new projects and opportunities.
- 🧩 The concept of 'cure' as a safe haven or niche for creatives to consistently produce and share their work.
- 📈 The power of establishing a consistent genre or platform, such as a blog, where readers know what to expect and can rely on the content.
- 🌐 The impact of technology changes on media and how pioneers adapt to these shifts to continue creating innovative content.
- 🎉 The celebration of small but meaningful victories, like sending out a short newsletter, as a way to maintain engagement and share interesting finds.
Q & A
What is the significance of the podcast sponsor's product, One Password, to the host?
-The host considers One Password one of his favorite products due to its industry-leading security and award-winning design. He has been using it for over a decade and has made it a requirement for everyone on his team to protect against data breaches.
How does the 8 Sleep Pod cover help improve sleep quality?
-The 8 Sleep Pod cover fits on any mattress and allows users to adjust the temperature of their sleeping environment to optimal levels. It features dual-zone temperature control, enabling separate temperature settings for each side of the bed, and makes temperature adjustments throughout the night based on biometrics, environment, and sleep stages to limit wake-ups and increase deep sleep percentage.
What are some of the key takeaways from Seth Godin's advice on writing short blog posts?
-Seth Godin suggests treating blog posts more as questions or provocations rather than answers or prescriptions. He emphasizes the importance of creating a post that encourages the reader to think and engage in a dialogue. Additionally, he advises on setting boundaries and rules for writing to ensure consistency and sustainability.
What is the main reason behind the host's decision to experiment with walking talks instead of traditional podcast recordings?
-The host believes that sitting is not good for health and that humans are not evolved to consume podcasts in a fixed location. By experimenting with walking talks, he aims to counteract this trend and engage in an activity that humans are designed to do – walk.
How does the host describe the concept of 'creating a vacuum' in relation to his projects?
-The host describes 'creating a vacuum' as intentionally stopping a project or activity to make space for new, potentially more fulfilling endeavors. This action involves a level of discomfort and uncertainty but is deemed necessary for personal growth and innovation.
What is the benefit of maintaining a consistent writing schedule, according to Seth Godin?
-Seth Godin believes that maintaining a consistent writing schedule helps to eliminate the internal noise and uncertainty about whether to write each day. This consistency allows him to focus on creating and sharing content without the pressure of producing a 'perfect' post every time.
How does the host use the concept of 'cure' in relation to his professional practice?
-The host uses the term 'cure' to describe a safe haven or niche where he can consistently deliver value in his professional practice. By occupying a specific lane and being reliable in that space, he has built a platform that provides him with a unique advantage.
What is the main reason for the host to continue writing his blog even if no one reads it?
-The host continues to write his blog because it helps to quiet the noise in his head and provides him with a sense of satisfaction and consistency. The commitment to writing daily has become a non-negotiable part of his routine, regardless of the audience size.
What advice does Seth Godin give for making short blog posts more effective?
-Seth Godin advises making short blog posts effective by starting with a clear and concise assertion that creates a 't' and then releasing the tension to land an idea. He also suggests keeping the posts simple, beneficial, and free from unnecessary parentheticals or exaggerations.
How does the host describe the process of creating a new piece of writing or content?
-The host describes the process as a cycle of creating internal, mediocre work and exploring various ideas. He uses tools like a laser cutter to create physical prototypes and enjoys the invention cycle, although he also acknowledges the need to eventually ship the work and not just focus on the creation process.
What is the host's approach to dealing with the discomfort of creating a 'vacuum' after stopping a project?
-The host deals with the discomfort by engaging in other activities, such as creating straw prototypes and exploring new ideas. He also uses this period to reflect on his work and consider new projects, although he acknowledges that this can be a challenging and uncomfortable process.
Outlines
🎧 Product Endorsements and Cybersecurity
The paragraph introduces two different product endorsements. The first part discusses the benefits of using 1Password, a password manager that ensures secure and convenient access to various platforms. The speaker praises the product's security features, design, and its wide usage by both individuals and businesses. The second part of the endorsement is about the Pod cover by 8 sleep, a device designed to regulate sleeping temperature, which the speaker finds effective in improving sleep quality. The speaker also mentions a personal struggle with sleep due to temperature issues and how the product has helped.
📚 Writing and Blogging Insights
This paragraph delves into the art of writing and blogging, highlighting the importance of brevity and clarity. The speaker engages in a conversation with Seth Godin, a renowned author and blogger, about the craft of writing short blog posts. They discuss the challenge of condensing complex ideas into shorter formats and the value of posing questions rather than providing exhaustive answers. The speaker also reflects on the impact of blogging as a medium and the need to adapt to its strengths and limitations.
🚀 Embracing Change and Innovation
The speaker shares insights on embracing change and innovation, drawing from personal experiences in various projects and technological shifts. They discuss the evolution of media and the importance of being a pioneer in new forms of expression. The speaker emphasizes the value of creating a 'vacuum' by letting go of successful projects to make space for new, potentially more impactful endeavors. This approach is driven by a desire to solve interesting problems and contribute positively to one's field.
🤖 Conversations with Icons and Learning from the Greats
In this paragraph, the speaker recounts experiences working with notable figures such as Isaac Asimov and Stanley Kaplan. They reflect on the contrasting management styles and the impact these experiences had on their professional growth. The speaker appreciates the autonomy and trust granted by Asimov, which allowed for creative freedom, and contrasts it with the micromanagement experienced in other collaborations.
🎮 Interactive Media and the Evolution of Games
The speaker discusses the evolution of interactive media and games, sharing a story about creating a murder mystery game for VCRs. They describe the innovative aspects of the game, which involved a film with pause-and-play mechanics, and the success it achieved. The speaker also reflects on the serendipitous opportunities that have arisen throughout their career, emphasizing the importance of adaptability and seizing moments of creative potential.
📈 Decision-Making and the Art of Simplicity
The paragraph focuses on the art of simplifying complex ideas and the importance of decision-making. The speaker uses the example of a short blog post about time management to illustrate how a simple assertion can be turned into a powerful message. They emphasize the value of presenting ideas in a way that resonates with the reader and encourages them to share the insights with others. The speaker also discusses the role of their 'character' in their writing and how they maintain consistency in voice and message over time.
💡 The Power of Consistency and Creative Freedom
In this paragraph, the speaker discusses the power of consistent creative output and the freedom to explore various projects. They share their approach to maintaining a daily writing habit and the benefits it brings, such as reducing internal noise and establishing a reliable professional presence. The speaker also talks about their satisfaction in shipping work and the joy of the creative process, highlighting the importance of balancing continuous creation with the need to complete and share their work.
🌐 The Impact of Marketing on Environment and Society
The speaker addresses the impact of marketing and consumer trends on the environment and society, using the example of the Patagonian toothfish. They discuss how clever marketing can lead to overconsumption and the potential extinction of species. The speaker emphasizes the need for greater awareness and responsibility in promoting products and the importance of using their platform to share valuable insights and provoke thought.
📧 The Value of Curated Communication
The speaker talks about the value of curated communication, highlighting their own newsletter, 'Five Bullet Friday,' as an example. They describe it as a concise weekly dispatch that shares interesting finds and thoughts, serving as a curated selection of cool things. The speaker emphasizes the joy of discovery and the pleasure of sharing these discoveries with their audience, creating a positive and engaging experience for their subscribers.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Password Management
💡Data Breaches
💡Cybernetic Organism
💡Sleep Technology
💡Biometrics
💡Content Creation
💡Marketing
💡Productivity
💡Innovation
💡Personal Development
Highlights
One Password is a favorite product of the speaker, used for over a decade for its industry-leading security and award-winning design.
Data breaches are a serious issue that can affect anyone, emphasizing the need for robust password management.
The speaker trusts One Password so much that it has become a requirement for everyone on their team.
One Password was chosen as Wirecutter's top pick for password managers after beating out 40 other options.
The product allows secure switching between various devices like iPhone, Android, Mac, and PC, offering features like autofill for quick sign-ins.
One Password can generate strong, unique passwords and store them securely in an encrypted Vault accessible only by the user.
The platform also supports two-factor authentication with a countdown of unique numbers, reducing the need for separate apps for such functions.
Regular third-party audits and the industry's largest bug bounty program help keep One Password at the forefront of security.
Listeners of the podcast get an exclusive offer of a free two-week trial at OnePassword.com/Tim.
The speaker introduces another sponsor, 8 Sleep, which offers a temperature-regulating Pod cover designed to improve sleep quality.
The Pod cover fits on any mattress and can adjust the temperature of the sleeping environment for optimal sleep.
Dual Zone temperature control allows individual settings for each side of the bed, catering to different preferences.
The Pod cover uses sensors to track health and sleep metrics, making temperature adjustments throughout the night for better sleep.
Listeners can save $200 on the Pod cover by visiting 8sleep.com/Tim and utilizing the provided discount.
The speaker discusses the importance of walking and being active, countering the negative health effects of too much sitting.
The conversation with Seth Godin is a walking talk, an approach that promotes movement and healthier podcasting practices.
Seth Godin is a renowned author and speaker, known for his expertise in marketing and influential books like 'Tribes', 'Purple Cow', and 'The Dip'.
The speaker and Seth Godin discuss the art of blogging effectively, touching on the balance between brevity and comprehensiveness.
Seth Godin emphasizes the value of treating blog posts more as questions or provocations rather than处方或详尽的答案.
Transcripts
[Music]
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question now we a see the broken time
what if I did the opposite I'm a
cybernetic organism living dissue over
metal
[Music]
endoskeleton hello boys and girls ladies
and germs this is Tim Ferris welcome to
another episode of the Tim Ferris show
and this is one of my favorite types of
episodes of course I'm speaking to world
class performers of all different
disciplines all the time but one of my
favorite people to ask for advice is
Seth Goden and this is a Walkin talk
which means Seth and I were walking and
talking while we recorded this and I had
many burning questions I wanted to ask
he did not fail to deliver a lot of sage
advice tactical practical wisdom and
what more can I say the guy's a gem he
delivers every time who is Seth Goden
you might ask Seth Goden is the author
of 21 International bestsellers that
have changed the way people think about
work his books have been translated into
38 languages and Seth's books include
tribes Purple Cow lynchpin the dip and
this is marketing Seth writes one of the
most popular marketing blogs in the
world 8500
8,500 plus daily blog posts just to put
that into perspective and two of his TED
Talks are among the most popular of all
time he is the founder of the alt MBA
the social media Pioneer squid do and
yo-yo dine one of the first internet
companies his latest book is the song of
significance a new Manifesto for teams
you can find him at Seth golden.com and
you can find Seth's blog at seth. blog
so you can go to both of those for a lot
of resources and I'm going to just
reiterate why we did this format the way
we did it because there's too much
sitting in the world it's not good for
you we weren't evolved to do it and I am
trying to counteract the trend the
impulse all the incentives to do
podcasts in a fixed location this isn't
good for my health and it's certainly
not good for your health to force you to
consume it that way so I'm at least
experimenting with being out and about
doing something that we are designed to
do and that is walk so without further
Ado please enjoy my wide ranging
conversation where I ask for a lot of
help from Seth
Goen all right here we are so thank you
again for taking the time and the
subject I suppose relates to time
attention all these good things which is
how to make Tim Ferris is incredibly
long form writing shorter or how those
two things fundamentally are different
in terms of long and short I texted you
asking if there's any Secret Sauce any
tips or tricks for writing short blog
posts because I consider you the
Undisputed King of consistently good
short blog posts and that kind of
Uncorked all of this so here we are and
uh I suppose where I might want to start
is with our initial text thread and one
of the points that at least as I read it
seemed to resonate was treating blog
posts more as a question than an answer
or a provocation rather than a
prescription could you expand on that a
little bit because I think it relates
also to the post that you so kindly
proof read where I may have
misinterpreted how best to think about
that I would be delighted to dive in
there are so many places to start I'm
going to start with this you are a
gifted and generous writer and you have
been since I began tracking what you do
and blogging is inherently a generous
act because it's hard in 2024 to justify
it as a financial Endeavor you're doing
it
to
illuminate and what does it mean to
write in this form a short story
attributed to Ernie Hemingway probably
not for sale baby shoes never worn six
words it's perfect in six words your
heart
breaks that's not scalable practical
repeatable you can't sign up to write
six word short stories that break
people's hearts every day
because that level of condensing that
level of being able to get at the heart
none of the words had more than seven
letters none of the words have more than
two syllables that's magic right we
can't repeatedly do that so when we look
at the form of a Blog we say well you
know Seth's blog posts have 100 to a
thousand words in them all I have to do
is take my idea and make it shorter and
when we try to do that resistance kicks
in pressfield's resistance and we say
but I need to clarify this sentence and
add a parenthetical to that sentence or
else I will be misunderstood so this
first sentence in this paragraph which
is Rich and detailed and recursive and
layered goes like this growth agents
have a place in medicine parentheses
some types of hypop poopari inis wasting
syndromes diseases surgical care Etc
and some sports effectively require them
at higher levels but there are always
trade-offs when you turn on the dials on
complex hormonal Cascades and feedback
loops y everything in that is true and
someone could study that sentence in
college for a month because there's
layers below layers below
layers and
unfortunately the blog reader in general
is not ready to consume that level of
condensation mhm and so
we shouldn't even try because that's not
what a Blog is good at mhm what a Blog
is good at is what Scott McLoud taught
us about Comics Scott mccloud's book
about Comics which is a must read I have
read it or understanding Comics is the
one that I read understanding Comics
thank you yes the key lesson is this
Comics work because something happens
between the panels uh right and panel
one Superman sees a problem in panel two
Superman is with the villain we don't
see how Superman got from panel one to
panel two that happened in our brain so
the reason Bad Comics and bad graphic
novels are bad is because the Creator
didn't understand that they didn't let
our brain do the leaping they just
decided to add a lot of pictures to a
story that would be better in words so
what a blog post does is it says here's
a sketch over here and now I'm over
there you figure out how I got from here
to there and by you figuring it out the
reader you will grow you will explore
you will be a voice in this dialogue it
is not just me talking MH so when you
ask me to review your writing some
people are tempted to proofread and they
don't really mean proofread they mean
copy edit and copy editing means fix the
errors and what I'm trying to do when
I'm editing a friend work is say are
they even asking the right question cuz
they can fix their own errors they don't
need my help to do that and so here what
I'm trying to say is what is this post
for and what it's for I think is to help
someone who's not paying attention to
realize that there are seven things they
might want to think about and seven is a
lot so what I pitched back to is this is
actually seven blog posts in a series
and what the first one says is you know
there's some things you're not thinking
about that you might want to think about
here's one of them and the idea if I
just say to somebody biceps are
temporary baseball helmet sizes are
forever they visualize that immediately
MH and then they're like H what and then
they want to think about what you meant
by that it's a ha cou it's a puzzle it's
a shadow where is the light and what is
being reflected so now you gotten
permission to tell me in a paragraph or
two what you meant and then I can you
get to say and I
say and that is the form that is what
blogs are good at but and I'm going to
end my rant now the
downside is you will be
misunderstood and that is why there are
no comments on my blog because people
who misunderstood a post would then
respond by making me feel bad so I would
over right and overwrite so they
wouldn't do that anymore and then it
wasn't a Blog anymore so I had to stop
and basically what I'm saying is if you
don't get it ask a friend and if they
don't get it either come back tomorrow
and we can discuss a new thing and I
think the king of this is actually the
magic of XKCD which is a Blog in graphic
form yeah it's outstanding I agree on
that and as you're talking a few things
come to mind for me and maybe as a
backdrop the
for a lot of this for me at least is
number one to get back into writing and
to experiment with a new form a new
style a new approach to writing and
number two is to explore ideas to
explore ideas in various ways to clarify
my own thinking Y which ended up
happening in this short piece the no
biological free lunch piece that you
proof read I suppose my question not
copyedited which is certainly a very
different thing in this particular case
if you were writing this would you be
inclined to make it a series or would
you make each of these a standalone
piece in other words of those seven
bullets as you're thinking through not
just the word count right this is my
mistake where I basically said okay
instead of writing a 5,000 word blog
post I'm gonna make it less than a
thousand but I'm G to try to still
somehow get all of the concepts into
this shorter form seems like there's a
conceptual con straint that makes things
powerful but would you take those seven
make them into an interrelated series
would you make them all kind of
independent after you introduce them in
this one piece how would you think about
divvying this up conceptually for
yourself and I should also just add one
more thing which is yeah fundamental to
all of these observations and questions
and goals and dreams of mine is how do I
make this sustainable for me right which
is part of the feedback you gave in the
comments on on the draft of this blog
post was I'm paraphrasing but if you try
to just make the 5,000 words thing a
th000 words it's going to be exhausting
for you and most likely also exhausting
for your
readers which I agree with this about
genre so my blog is a long running
series it has been a series of 8,500
Daily Posts so if I was starting today I
have to figure out what is the genre of
my work if you think about David
Letterman TV show mhm he needed to have
a series called stupid pet tricks cuz
the show wasn't stupid pet tricks but
there was a regular recurring stupid
petrick right the show was a series of
David Letterman shows so if your genre
as you reenter blogging is uh there is a
post from Tim on a regular basis and all
of them are about the things we put into
our body and performance that you're
fine if that's not the case then the
question is when the reader shows up do
you need to do a lot of throat clearing
to get them back on track for what you
are writing about today and so since
you're starting with largely a blank
slate I said well if the first seven of
these are in this series then you only
have to clear your throat once on the
8th day and say okay now we're talking
about this and you could do one of those
or six of those or 12 of those mhm but
people do better if they understand that
they're going to see Dune not read the
power broker those are different genres
and you need to give them a hint as to
what they're going to get I like the
idea of recognizing that my tendency is
to how should I be generous with
myself be comprehensive was gonna say
over complicate but let's be nice try to
be comprehensive I would rather as we
talked about earlier I'm walking by
tennis court right now and I remember
taking a tennis lesson and I kept
hitting the ball into the net and the
coach said to me he's like you can do
anything now next step you can hit the
ball straight up in the air you can hit
a home run the one thing you cannot do
is hit it into the net and I was like
okay I got it and I kind of feel like I
need to give myself some marching orders
like that for writing to counterbalance
some of my Tendencies so I like the idea
of writing self sustaining independent
pieces to restrict myself from the
desire to say you know what I'm not
going to overwrite this but it's going
to be part one in a 12p part series
which is uh maybe a workaround uh for
tricking myself I'm gonna interrupt you
for a little bit the please do you are
extraordinarily skilled at not over
complicating your writing or your
narratives that's how you got this far
that there's very little that you have
published where you were the primary
researcher and the Breakthrough creator
of the original science what you've done
is helped people simplify understand
what's Happening Here is resistance you
are adding parentheticals to protect
yourself 100% MH so what I'm pushing you
to do is to come up with boundaries so
that you can say I did a good job and
ship the work now that could involve
having
very like the rules of ha cou very
significant rules where you must have a
tagline to come online that's less than
18 wordss and you are allowed to have
two footnote links but the rest of it
has to be a narrative that you would say
to somebody on the telephone and instead
of typing them you are just recording
each one and letting someone on your
team type them if that would be the
model you would have to let go of it
because you only have a 5-minute phone
call you're going to say it as clearly
as you can you can add two links when
you're done and it's done you got to
ship it right but that's not letting the
reader down because you've announced to
them that that's what this is the genre
matters I asked you one question related
to how you know when you're done
and I'd love for you to answer that
again because I suspect I'll have some
follow-up questions and either before or
after that I would love to know for
yourself what typee of rules you have
imposed or constraints SL
boundaries when you have had your better
streaks of writing let's just say all
right well we I'll do the first part
first because it's easier you asked how
do you decide or no when a post is done
and I texted back I
don't that's the point and then I wrote
imagine how hard it would be to have a
conversation or even a text thread if we
had to Think Through whether our turn to
talk was over before we stopped
talking right so my model my ritual is I
write blog posts in advance and then the
night before I review them I rewrite
them I delete them so if I get the
stomach flu there's still going to be a
blog post tomorrow and when I rewrite a
blog post the rule is you wa get points
if you make it shorter you don't get
points if you make it longer and if I
can't boil it down more than it already
is and it's not deliberately deceptive
it's done because the purpose is tell
people something they already sort of
know in a way that they would be
grateful for the chance to forward to
other people can you say that one more
time Seth that seems important if I can
show up with something in your bones you
know to be true or interesting or worth
thinking about but I can say it in a way
that would benefit you if you could
share it with your friends and
colleagues that's a great blog post
benefit you in what possible senses I
will give you a trivial one first which
is more than once I have blogged about
how stupid it is that there's a pull
down menu when you're checking out of a
shop and there's all 50 states listed
that isn't helping anybody we have have
ai that can speak English it knows how
to turn NY into New York and we do this
because 40 years ago or whenever the web
was young 25 years ago it was a hack
that made life slightly easier for
certain programmers and it's just been
sticking around ever since there are
people like me it really vexes and if I
say this and you are one of those vexing
people now you can forward it to your
Web Master and say see see I said we
shouldn't this and so I just gave you a
useful thing to
share that's trivial but that's sort of
the idea is that if you have a brother
or a son or a colleague or daughter or a
sister who would benefit from the
Insight that you think I'm on to you're
going to forward it to them and you're
going to have a connection with them CU
I opened the door and made it possible
for you to do that every once in a while
I do post something about Claude AI that
you didn't know know about and know you
go oh great I use Claud thank you very
much but that's not really the service
my blog offers the service my blog
offers is not I'm breaking news it's I
am trying to illuminate things that
already resonate with people not to add
too many parentheticals to this
conversation but what is CLA but what is
Claude AI
Claude AI I can't believe I know
something you don't know claw. a
is significantly better then chat GPT at
certain
functions and I think part of it is cuz
it doesn't read the web or it says it
doesn't read the web so it's not easily
distracted but I'm launching a software
project in six weeks and the business
plan took more than a year and a whole
bunch of contributors it's 40 pages long
and I uploaded the business plan to
Claude And I said please review this
highlight contradictions paradoxes and
obvious errors and in less than 10
seconds it me a page and a half MBA
quality memo that nailed it it just
nailed it nailed it nailed it and I was
like okay you got me that's great that's
great so I use Claude AI every day to
read other people's writing my writing
critique it give me Insight you could
send your post to Claude and it might
not have the Insight I had but it would
definitely have something to say
incredible all right well end
parenthesis what are some other elements
or practices or constraints or fill-in
the blank that have helped you with
consistency in terms of blog writing
because I have attempted
and failed a number of times to build up
momentum writing shorter posts and I
think a lot of what we've already
discussed will help is there anything
else that you would add to the it helped
my consistency streak category well I
would say two things first I think
you're talking about consistency in
terms of showing up at the Ballpark
every day Cadence yeah exactly yeah so
I'll do that one second the first one I
have never met Larry David but I am
guessing that there are some days that
Larry David is actually a nice
thoughtful person and there is a
character named Larry David as well so
the person who writes my blog is a
character named Seth Goden and I am the
only person who has ever written my blog
I the only person who ever will write my
blog but when I am doing it I am playing
the character named Seth goed so if it
doesn't sound like me if it's just me
authentically being tired or annoyed I
don't publish those because that's not
what my character would do it's this is
not me exposing some mystical mythical
Seth Goden to the world it's me
portraying the character Seth Goden CU
it's a service
and then the second thing is streaks are
usually used against us by software and
if they make you feel bad it's not a
helpful thing but I write blog posts
every single day whether I use them or
not and I learned that from Isaac azimov
when I worked with him all those years
ago if you know that tomorrow morning
you have to start typing tonight when
you go to sleep or today when you're
walking around you will be noticing
things so that you have something to
type and you know I've have enough in
reserve that I don't have to do it every
day but I do it every day because I eat
lunch every day and because I take a
shower every day two follow-ups so the
first is related to the playing the
character of Seth Goden it sounds like
if I heard you correctly you're saying
your writing should
reflect how you feel in the world at the
time that you're writing am I hearing
that correctly no it's it's the opposite
of that it's the opposite there's no
should here first of all if someone
wants to write a blog that's just the
unvarnished version of them in the
moment go for it I don't care I'm not
the blog police what I'm saying is I can
read a blog post I wrote 14 years
ago and I might not write the same one
today but it rhymes with the one I would
write today because there's a voice that
this character has that I am very
comfortable with I did the first thing
that all writers do when I got chat GPT
which is I asked it to write like me and
I was pleased to discover it was a
parody of me and being able to be
parodied is a really good
sign and that's what it is to have this
voice is to say I could exaggerate it in
six different directions and people
could tell I would be parodying it but
like you know the Peanuts comic strip
Charles Schultz did it every single day
and it's very hard to tell which decade
a peanut strip is from totally and
that's that's what I'm after so just to
unpack that a little bit more I know
we've talked before or I should say I've
asked and listen to you discuss how the
authenticity fetishizing that goes on is
often not always but often very
misplaced and just kind of overvalues
this oversharing what are the things
that make Seth the character Seth the
character is it
80% voice that you've developed such
that chat GPT can imitate you and Par to
you what are the other ingredients that
make Seth the character who writes on
Seth's blog you know I've not ever
pushed myself to name them because
seeing is forgetting the name of what
one sees but yeah I guess I'd highlight
a couple things the first one is I try
to begin from a place of the benefit
benefit of the doubt of there probably
aren't bad people there's just
situations that cause people to do
things that are troubling and a level of
optimism to go with it I try to reduce
ideas to their Essence without becoming
hyperbolic because the voices of social
media amped up the hyperbolic part
that's not a simplification that's an
exaggeration right I try
to
eliminate parentheticals unless I really
have no choice so I will avoid saying
something like all tall people are very
brave because that's ridiculous but I
will not write tall people or Brave
parentheses except for this person this
person this person and this person
because now it's not worth reading right
so there's an assertion at the beginning
that creates a t
and then a
release of that tension that lands an
idea so the shortest blog post I ever
wrote which I'm really proud of is first
line is you don't need more
time so that's an assertion it's
controversial people who feel
overwhelmed want to challenge it and
then the delivery is you just need to
decide so that flips it upside down
takes the blame off off the system and
the people who are making you busy and
puts it right back on you giving you
agency and authority and responsibility
to Simply decide and then get back to
what needs to get done and so in just a
few words that's an example of a short
Seth Goen blog post and a longer one is
one where I will try to teach somebody
details about something they didn't know
but frame it
in a way that they're comfortable with
because that's how they might have
framed it as well let me ask a quick
question and maybe that I've cut back on
my caffeine too significantly but you
don't need more time you just need to
decide what are people deciding well
folks who say I'm going to figure out
which college I want to apply to soon I
just need to do more research I just
need to think about it I got it right
close the open Loops get it done make a
decision exactly mhm that makes a lot of
sense just a quick thanks to one of our
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followup I had and I'm sure I've asked
you this so I apologize but I can't
remember the answer if we have discussed
it what are some other things you picked
up from Isaac azimov I mean this guy's a
demigod at least a lot of people would
consider him one what are things you
absorbed or observed with Isaac Isaac
was in his 70s I was 24 and a half maybe
25 it was one of my first projects it
was one of his last ones and we would
hang out in his apartment near Lincoln
Center and I got to spend time with his
wife the thing about Isaac azimov is the
character of Isaac azimov was a
know-it-all egomaniac for the time today
he would be seen as humble but he he
published 400 books he invented the
modern conception of a robot he wrote
seminal work on an enormous number of
topics a definitive book about the Bible
I mean all over the place but in
person he was humble and funny and as a
project partner he was completely hands
off he spent time with me to make sure I
understood the bound Ines of what an
Isaac aam project was and then he said
go for it and he didn't micromanage a
thing because he trusted me and my
understanding of where the robots
Universe could go and it spoiled me
because I thought that was going to
happen again and again and again and you
know I got Stanley Kaplan into the test
prep book business and it took seven
years and by the time we the book
Stanley was long gone from the project
CU he had sold the company but talk
about micromanaging with a well-known
name so I'm one end of the spectrum was
Isaac azimov and on the other end was
Stanley Kaplan go figure you know your
story about azimov makes me think a
little bit of Rick rubben where right
out of the gate LL Cool J BC boys he's
like oh this is easy this is how it
works fantastic what was the project
that you're were working with isacon
okay so before DVDs lots of people had
VCRs and yes I remember a company called
Parker Brothers took their board game
Clue and they made it into a VCR game
and it was Dumb and it sold more than a
million copies at $40 wow good for them
and so Peter alatka the greatest game
designer of his generation and I
invented a murder mystery game you could
play on your VCR so there was a movie
shot with real Union actors in a set in
New York City it lasted 38 minutes and
took place on another planet about
robots and murder and detectives and six
times during the short film a screen
came up and said hit the pause button
and play a card so you would hit pause
and you had a stack of six cards and
each card had two sides and you would
throw a card down and it would be a clue
like there are no fingerprints on the
gun which might mean it was a robot cuz
robots don't have fingerprints right and
on the other side of the card it said
there were fingerprints on the gun so
now you know it's not a robot so it
turned out that 2 to the^ of 6 is 150
six or whatever and if you added up the
code numbers on the top of each card you
played it told you which page in the
answer booklet had the answer to that
thread through the game so you could
play the game hundreds of times and it
would be a different outcome each time
and we sold the rights to Kodak and cisc
and Ebert gave it two thumbs up and
advertised it on the Olympics like the
full thing it was fascinating wow where
were you in your career that that
opportunity presented itself or you
found that opportunity what had led up
to that outside of what you just
described so before I did that I had
only one real job and my job was at
Spiner software we invented educational
computer games and I built the first
brand of Illustrated computer adventure
games I worked with Arthur C Clark and
Ray Bradbery and Michael Brighton I got
rights to games I worked with Byron
price he had a team of programmers and I
had a team of programmers we did The
Wizard of Oz and I loved it I could
still be doing it to this day but the
world changed and I was out on my own
after a couple years as a book packager
but Peter and I knew each other and the
momentum from the interactive game thing
led me to Isaac's editor and no one had
ever asked for the rights the rights
weren't expensive and then once I had
the rights I found Kodak and Kodak was
able to put up the money so we could
build this thing and own part of the
back end so if I zoom out I have a macro
level question for you which has been on
my mind a lot if you don't mind which is
a question of how you choose next
chapters or projects because I'm coming
up on the 10th anniversary of the
podcast next April so in a few months
and figured that would be a good
a time as any to pause and reflect on
things and think about where I want to
go love doing the podcast don't plan on
stopping it but there are a lot of
Trends driving it towards effectively
turning podcasts into fixed location
television shows and I don't have much
desire to do that y I don't want to be
contrarian just for the sake of being
contrarian that's its own trap or set of
traps but I know you've been very
deliberate for instance in choosing not
to start a dozen startups and and in
favor of choosing to spend your time on
other things how do you choose or think
about kind of next chapters or how what
advice might you give me as I
contemplate for what's next type of
question you know I think it's very kind
of you to say I'm very good at it I
don't think I'm good at it but because
I'm sort of in public and I do it in a
certain way it's noted you know I did
five years of a Kimbo it was in the top
1% of all podcasts and then I just
stopped and I stopped not because I
didn't love it I did love it I stopped
because if I kept doing it there's
something else I wouldn't do
instead and creating a vacuum is
required so that I will do the hard work
of filling the vacuum but if I just keep
doing the thing then there is no vacuum
and sometimes the technology changes
that's why Spiner went away that's why
you couldn't keep making VCR games it's
why my Head Start in the cdrom business
was worthless cuz CD ROMs went away i'
liked in every time I did this being a
Pioneer in a New Media space because
that's for me the funnest spot and then
when the technology changes I got to
move on but podcast technology is never
going to change I mean you're noting
there's a change in the production
format and that is a change so in my
case what I'm trying to do is not
maximize my my income per hour spent nor
am I trying to maximize the size of my
audience what I'm trying to maximize is
are the people I'm
serving glad that I did that I showed up
to solve an interesting problem and two
as I build the stack of things on the
bookshelf behind me can I point to them
and say that was interesting and
generous and I'm glad I did it and you
know that's part of a limited attention
span theater so it's not for everybody
but my whole point of view is that life
is projects it is not a job and when you
stopped the podcast and created that
vacuum did you already have something
kind of warming up in the batting cage
that was pending that you need to create
that vacuum for or did you create the
vacuum and then wait for something to
get pulled into it not to strain the
metaphor but you get the idea no you're
not straining it if there's something
pending it's not a vacuum there have
been times when something so good came
along I did it and then how to remove
things so I could do it you know when a
few of us started squido which was one
of the first social networks I had a
completely or reorganized my life
because we built the 40th biggest
website in the US with only eight
employees so we were busy this is not
what I'm talking about I am talking
about an actual uncomfortable vacuum
where you feel like you're never going
to work again where nothing can possibly
be worth what you gave up and that's
hard to
do yeah it is to do so just to put a put
a microscope on that I have as means of
backstory done this for periods of time
and have found it deeply deeply
uncomfortable sometimes fruitful often
times not terribly fruitful in part I
think because when I create that vacuum
I don't know if the best way to embrace
the vacuum is to basically just stare at
the wall and watch paint dry or to do
something else and my mind just kind of
folds in on itself you create the VAC
and then what do the next few weeks look
like in terms of how you spend your time
dayto day or week to week I think a
fundamental difference between you and
me there are so many of them but one of
them as I am here talking to what the
world Tango Champion former world record
holder a long time ago yes is the only
thing I have a world record in is being
part of the largest co-author book
signing in history in which me and 400
other people all signed our book at the
same time because I am not a high
performer I am interesting and being
interesting is really important to me
but I am not holding myself to the
standard you hold yourself in so many
ways and so I could imagine that the
thing that gives me Comfort might not
make you happy right for sure I agree
with all of that and how does that
difference translate to what you would
do in the weeks following creating
the vacuum after say stopping the
podcast because I guess you have
activities that you're still carrying
forward it's not like you're completely
idle you're writing still presumably if
someone looked at me from the outside I
think that they would see that my days
aren't that different I am not shipping
public work because I don't ship junk
but I am internally creating lots of
mediocre work and basically creating
straw people and saying what would this
be like and then what would that be like
and here's this thing and I sat with my
60 or 80 watt laser cutter and I cut
this thing out what do I think of that
and
um that invention cycle is joyful but I
can't do it forever because I also need
the satisfaction of shipping the work
and not giving into resistance so what
I'm doing when I was a book packager we
sold 120 books in 10 years a book a
month but I had more than 800 books on
my hard drive ready to go not finished
but two page five page proposals because
the only way to have a finished proposal
for me is to have an unfinished one that
you didn't ship what is it and this is
probably a fundamental question I should
have asked earlier but what did you get
from writing and having written as
consistently as you have and do what is
the payoff like why do that okay so the
biggest payoff is simple not in terms of
equity stock value but in terms of the
noise in my head the biggest benefit is
I will be writing tomorrow because it's
Friday not because I've written the
perfect blog post that every single day
something gets published by me because I
decided that 24 years ago not because I
have reconsidered each day whether this
one is good enough mhm and even if no
one read my blog
I would still do it and I'm very
fortunate that people give me the
benefit of the doubt knowing that I am
not guaranteeing this is the best thing
I ever wrote and they're still willing
to look at it so that's lovely in terms
of my professional
practice again back to genre having a
cure a platform where for a long time if
you type blog into Google I was the
first match because I just showed up
more than just about anybody there's a
lot of value to saying this is my lane
and you can count on me in this Lane and
for someone who is as paretic as I in
their creative Pursuits having one of
those turned out to be a really useful
thing you mentioned a word that I don't
recognize but I love the sound of ccure
what is that yeah it's a safe haven a
niche a place to hide a fortress what a
great word yeah all right mental note to
use
cure well I don't want to take up a ton
of time here south this is all
incredible incredibly helpful the best
part of my day and I know that you're
not publishing this as written but I
just want to say as for the people who
were wondering what's in this magical
thing you wrote it includes the line
like Patagonian toothfish has become
Chilean seab Baths on fashionable menus
worldwide right there that's gold Jerry
that's just gold
and so you need to liberate these things
and explain to people what the I know
what you're talking about but the fact
is that entire species are becoming
extinct because somebody figured out a
clever way to Market an animal that we
eat there's a lot to be said about that
one little riff and you have 20 of them
in one
post thanks man yeah the the no
biological freelan it's one of those
things things that I've said so many
times to friends in conversation and I
was finally like you know what if not
for any other reason than I am tired of
repeating this Gettys Burger dress
speech to every Wayward friend who calls
me up about to consume really potent
drugs I have some of those if you go to
Seth stop blog and type advice for
authors there are two posts with the
same title cuz that's I wasn't being
clear that I wrote a year and a half
apart and they have each like a dozen or
15 bullet points and now I have a Sig
and superum that I can call up if when
someone sends me a note a friend or
whatever I can say oh I've already
thought about this question here you
go oh I love
it hey guys this is Tim again just one
more thing before you take off and that
is five bullet Friday would you enjoy
getting a short email from me every
Friday that provides a little fun before
the weekend between 1 and A2 and 2
million people subscribe to my free
newsletter my super short newsletter
called five bullet Friday easy to sign
up easy to cancel it is basically a half
page that I send out every Friday to
share the coolest things I've found or
discovered or have started exploring
over that week it's kind of like my
diary of cool things it often includes
articles I'm reading books I'm reading
albums perhaps gadgets gizmos all sorts
of tech tricks and so on that get sent
to me by my friends including a lot of
podcast guests and these strange
esoteric things end up in my field and
then I test them and then I share them
with you so if that sounds fun again
it's very short a little tiny bite of
goodness before you head off for the
weekend something to think about if
you'd like to try it out just go to tim.
blog Friday type that into your browser
tim.
blog Friday drop in your email and
you'll get the very next one thanks for
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