Smash Your Idols: Worshipping the True Christ - With Fr. Turbo Qualls
Summary
TLDRIn this profound discussion, Father Tero, a missionary priest, shares insights on the challenges and processes of bringing individuals into the Orthodox Church. He emphasizes the importance of proper catechesis and spiritual warfare, highlighting the need to dismantle misconceptions about Christ and embrace the transformative journey of repentance and submission to God. The conversation underscores the significance of experiencing the true joy found in Christ, beyond worldly happiness, and the responsibility of the Orthodox community to maintain the purity of faith amidst modern distortions.
Takeaways
- 😇 The importance of proper catechesis and initiation into the Orthodox Church is emphasized, as it sets the foundation for spiritual growth and understanding of the faith.
- 🛡️ The spiritual struggle and the necessity of recognizing and dismantling false perceptions of Christ and the Church are crucial for true conversion and spiritual maturity.
- 🌐 The Orthodox Church is presented as the authentic path to Christ, offering a fullness of worship and spiritual life that aligns with the teachings of Christ and the Holy Tradition.
- 💔 The prevalence of 'inoculated' individuals with a distorted or incomplete understanding of Christ and the Bible is a significant challenge in modern missionary work.
- 🔥 The transformative power of the Cross and the necessity of embracing pain and sacrifice as part of the spiritual journey towards Christ are highlighted.
- 👨🏫 The role of priests and teachers in guiding individuals through the process of becoming true disciples of Christ, emphasizing the importance of self-knowledge and repentance.
- 🌟 The Orthodox ethos is described as a beacon of light against the darkness of worldly mindsets and the influence of the enemy, requiring commitment and community.
- 🕊️ The concept of joy in the spiritual life is explored, contrasting the superficial happiness of the world with the deep, inexpressible joy found in Christ through struggle and sacrifice.
- 📚 The upcoming book on the reception of the heterodox is mentioned as an essential resource for building the Church, focusing on proper catechesis and the salvation of souls.
- 🚫 The dangers of improper reception into the Church, leading to spiritual defects and a distorted practice of faith, are discussed, underscoring the need for thorough preparation and understanding.
- ⚔️ The spiritual warfare that new converts face is acknowledged, with the call for catechists to equip individuals with the necessary tools to navigate the challenges of living a Christian life.
Q & A
What is the primary focus of the discussion between the host and Father Tero?
-The primary focus of the discussion is the process of bringing people into the Orthodox Church, particularly in America, and the challenges faced in guiding individuals from the world and its passions towards a deeper spiritual life in Christ.
How does Father Tero describe the current situation in terms of people's understanding of Christianity?
-Father Tero describes the current situation as post-Christian or even akin to an Apostolic time, where many people are unfamiliar with basic Bible stories and have little to no understanding of who Christ is, often holding misconceptions or 'inoculated' ideas about Christianity.
What does Father Tero mean by 'inoculated' in the context of people's understanding of Christ?
-By 'inoculated,' Father Tero refers to the dangerous misconceptions people have about Christ due to limited or distorted exposure, often from media or people who do not truly follow Christ. These misconceptions create a resistance to the true teachings of the Church.
What is the significance of the 'Trenches' metaphor used by Father Tero?
-The 'Trenches' metaphor signifies the challenging and frontline work of missionaries and priests in guiding people towards the Orthodox faith, especially in a culture that is increasingly distant from traditional Christian values.
Why is the process of catechesis important for new converts to Orthodoxy?
-The process of catechesis is important because it systematically introduces new converts to the teachings, practices, and spiritual life of the Orthodox Church, helping them to transition from worldly mindsets and passions towards a life centered on Christ.
What role do the Saints play in the spiritual journey of Orthodox Christians?
-The Saints serve as examples and models of how to live a life in Christ, showing the path of theosis or becoming more like Christ. Their lives provide guidance and inspiration for Orthodox Christians to emulate in their own spiritual journeys.
How does Father Tero address the issue of people seeking happiness in the Church?
-Father Tero emphasizes that the joy found in the Church is not the same as worldly happiness. It is a deeper, inexpressible joy that comes from struggling with and overcoming one's passions, not from seeking immediate gratification or superficial pleasures.
What is the significance of the 'kiss of Eternity' mentioned by the host?
-The 'kiss of Eternity' refers to the transformative, resurrectional grace experienced by those who deeply engage with the spiritual life of the Orthodox Church. It is the tangible experience of the eternal, divine love that transcends temporal existence.
Why is the concept of repentance essential in the spiritual life according to the discussion?
-Repentance is essential because it is the process of turning away from sin and worldly ways towards God. It is a continuous journey of self-examination, confession, and amendment of one's life, which is necessary for spiritual growth and union with Christ.
What challenges do converts face in their journey towards deeper life in Christ?
-Converts face challenges such as dismantling preconceived notions about Christ, embracing the reality of spiritual warfare, understanding the necessity of repentance, and learning to discern true joy from worldly happiness. They also grapple with the balance between the vertical relationship with God and the horizontal relationships with fellow human beings.
How can the Orthodox Church better support those on their spiritual journey?
-The Orthodox Church can better support spiritual seekers by providing thorough catechesis, emphasizing the importance of repentance and self-knowledge, fostering a deep understanding of the lives of the Saints, and equipping believers with the tools to engage in spiritual warfare and discern God's will in their lives.
Outlines
🤝 Welcoming Father Tero to Orthodox E
The host expresses gratitude to Father Tero for joining the Orthodox E show, reflecting on their previous encounter on Father Tero's show. They discuss the importance of Father Tero's mission in Kansas City, likened to the 'Heart of America,' to bring Americans to the Orthodox Church. The conversation emphasizes the challenge of transitioning people from worldly mindsets to seeking Christ and the spiritual life within the church, especially in missionary lands like America. The host is interested in discussing the process of catechesis and spiritual growth from the perspective of a priest, missionary, and teacher, and how listeners can deepen their life in Christ.
🌟 The Struggle of Modern Catechesis
Father Tero acknowledges the difficulty of modern catechesis, particularly in a post-Christian era where many people lack basic biblical knowledge. He discusses the challenge of dealing with individuals who have been 'inoculated' with misconceptions about Christianity and Christ's identity, shaped by media and societal influences. The conversation highlights the need to dismantle these false perceptions and the importance of teaching the true identity of Christ and the Orthodox understanding of repentance and salvation.
🛡 The Battle Against Idols and False Perceptions
The discussion delves into the struggle to break down the idols and false barriers that people have built around their understanding of Christ. It emphasizes the need to counter the distorted views of Christ as merely a moral teacher or a figure of judgment. Father Tero shares experiences where people resist the Orthodox teachings on marriage and morality, reflecting societal hostility towards traditional Christian values. The conversation underscores the importance of guiding people towards a true understanding of Christ and His commandments for a rich and fulfilling spiritual life.
🕯 The Transformative Power of Christ's Light
Father Tero speaks about the transformative power of Christ's light, which can dissolve the darkness that holds people captive. He emphasizes the importance of self-knowledge and the necessity for individuals to see themselves as they truly are. The conversation touches on the pain and discomfort that can come from encountering holiness and the grace of God, which is often misunderstood in a hedonistic culture that seeks to avoid pain at all costs.
🎭 The Complexity of Orthodoxy and the Simplicity of Christ's Life
The discussion explores the perceived complexity of Orthodoxy through the lens of the world and the importance of understanding the simplicity of life in Christ. Father Tero addresses the challenges of teaching about the lives of the Saints and the dangers of over-intellectualizing their narratives, which can lead to a disconnect from the incarnational aspect of their experiences. The conversation highlights the need for trust in Christ, the Saints, and the Church, despite societal messages that discourage such trust.
🔗 The Importance of Trust and Community in the Orthodox Faith
Father Tero discusses the importance of trust in the Orthodox faith, particularly in Christ, the Saints, and the Church. He addresses the challenges of fostering trust, especially in a world that has burned many people through untrustworthy actions. The conversation emphasizes the need for patience and bearing the burdens of one another as part of the Christian journey. It also touches on the transformative power of Christ, who reveals the truth and challenges individuals to confront their own darkness and sinfulness.
🛐 The Orthodox Church as the Path to True Submission to Christ
The discussion centers on the Orthodox Church as the sole path to true submission to Christ, which is essential for discerning the Antichrist and recognizing true beauty and goodness. Father Tero shares insights from his experiences in Greece with Elders who exemplified the fruits of the spirit in their every action and being. The conversation highlights the importance of recognizing and embracing the transformative journey from the image to the likeness of Christ through theosis.
🚀 The Spiritual Struggle and the Fruits of the Spirit
Father Tero emphasizes the importance of spiritual struggle and the necessity of recognizing the fruits of the spirit in one's life. He discusses the dangers of complacency and the need for continuous self-examination and spiritual growth. The conversation also addresses the challenges of attrition within the Church and the importance of proper catechesis and initiation into the Orthodox faith to ensure spiritual maturity and resilience.
🛡 The War of Faith and the Need for Spiritual Preparedness
The discussion focuses on the spiritual war that believers face and the importance of being properly prepared for it. Father Tero stresses the responsibility of priests and catechists to equip believers with the tools necessary for spiritual warfare. The conversation highlights the dangers of not preparing believers adequately, leading to spiritual failure and a lack of resilience in the face of challenges.
🏆 The Orthodox Church and the Preservation of True Worship
Father Tero discusses the importance of the Orthodox Church in preserving the true worship of Christ, emphasizing the need for submission to Christ's teachings and the rejection of personal desires and worldly ideologies. The conversation touches on the troubling trend of individuals and groups distorting Orthodox teachings and the need for self-reflection and repentance to maintain the purity of the faith.
📚 The Upcoming Book on the Reception of the Heterodox
The host and Father Tero discuss an upcoming book on the reception of the heterodox, which aims to provide comprehensive guidance on integrating those from non-Orthodox backgrounds into the Orthodox Church. The book, supported by Anam Press, is seen as an essential resource for the Church, addressing the spiritual needs of the times and focusing on the salvation of souls and the proclamation of the gospel.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Catechesis
💡Repentance
💡Theosis
💡Spiritual Warfare
💡Apostolic Times
💡Idolatry
💡Hagiography
💡Pantocrator Icon
💡Attrition Rate
💡Joy
Highlights
Father Tero discusses the importance of bringing Americans into the Orthodox Church and the challenges faced in doing so.
The role of a missionary in guiding people from worldly mindsets to seeking Christ and the spiritual life within the Orthodox Church.
The process of catechesis and initiating individuals into the life of the church, especially in missionary lands like America.
The necessity of dismantling preconceived notions and idols about Christ before truly understanding who He is.
The dangers of a superficial understanding of Christ, leading to misconceptions and a lack of depth in spiritual life.
The importance of recognizing the reality of spiritual warfare and the need for proper preparation in the Orthodox faith.
The transformative power of the Cross and the process of repentance as a means to experience the joy of salvation.
The contrast between the world's definition of happiness and the Orthodox understanding of true, spiritual joy.
The significance of self-knowledge and the necessity of embracing pain and struggle in the spiritual journey.
The role of the Holy Spirit in guiding and illuminating the path to Christ within the Orthodox tradition.
The importance of proper catechesis to avoid spiritual attrition and ensure a deep, lasting commitment to the faith.
The need for trust in the church, Christ, and the saints as a foundation for spiritual growth.
The challenge of discerning true spiritual joy from worldly happiness and the Orthodox path to fulfillment.
The discussion on the importance of living a life of submission to Christ as the key to discerning truth and beauty.
The concept of spiritual maturity as reflected in the lives of the Saints and the process of becoming more Christ-like.
The critical role of obedience and humility in the journey of Orthodox Christianity and spiritual warfare.
The final thoughts on the importance of proper initiation and ongoing spiritual formation within the Orthodox Church.
Transcripts
[Music]
spe
father Tero thank you so much for
joining us on the Orthodox e it's a joy
to have you now on this side we you had
me on your on your show and it was a joy
to be with you all and now we have you
with us on Orthodox thanks thanks for
joining us it's my joy father thank you
thank you for this opportunity I love
talking to you because you're in the
you're in the um the thick of the
struggle of of bringing the American
into the church that you're you're in
you're in the uh uh let's say the uh the
Battleground there in Kansas City Heart
of America said yeah the trenches The
Trenches that's the word I'm looking for
and you are uh dealing with something
that's very dear to our heart at
Orthodox Jesus and that is being a MOG
and bringing people step by step from
the world and the passions and the devil
and all the M the mindset of the world
and then they're seeking Christ and
you're bringing them step by step
through the cical process into the
church initiating them into the life of
the church and then in Into the Depths
of the spiritual life and that is that
whole process is so important and and so
much work can be done there today in the
church around the world but especially
among the missionary lands like America
and you know one by one the I think the
way the church approaches the world is
one by one and in community and every
Community little you know cell by cell
the spirit of God Reigns and therefore
the spirit of the enemy and the Darkness
is pushed back and the light shines
forth so it's it's so uh it's so
important so I'd like to talk to you
today about that that whole process and
and and from the perspective of a priest
a missionary a teacher how can we help
our brothers and sisters who are going
to be listening to this on the Orthodox
ethos how can we help them to if they're
catak humans especially but even those
who' gone through the process how can we
help them to realize what is this
process that we all have to go through
to go deeper into the life in Christ
what are we facing and maybe answer some
of the questions that we get all the
time about uh you know what's what we
what is the most important pillars of
that of that whole process yeah you know
honestly uh father I I think the answer
um may be somewhat unsatisfying for some
people and I think the fact if it is
unsatisfying that's telling in of itself
and that is
Christ and becoming a disciple of Christ
and in our context so many people
they've receive what I call an
inoculation and even though we're living
in times that are
really I mean Beyond post-christian I I
encounter people shockingly often who do
not know basic Bible stories so in many
ways we are facing a kind of you know
Apostolic time in regards of dealing
with people converting people who are
you know all but Pagan really um they
may have some Similan of understanding
their Grandma maybe or an aunt maybe but
they don't know the basic Bible stories
and more importantly with that they
really have no idea who Christ is and in
a in an actual literal sense I'm not
being hyperbolic you know there's so
that's a that's a different kind of
catechism isn't it because a lot of
times we're thinking and up to this
point most people talk about missionary
work they're talking about to the
heterodox in other words there are
heterodox people who are coming to the
church saying I want to become Orthodox
and you're starting with a lot you know
basic stuff is there and you just need
to you know
reorient but now you're saying that
there's increasingly a whole generation
of people who don't understand basic
like Christian Concepts correct and
again this word I used inoculation is
key because what little bit they do have
is dangerous
because they think they they have a very
strong Assumption of well I already know
who Christ is I've heard this or that
I've Seen On TV more importantly they
have this apprehension of Christ through
people who the who they themselves don't
have Christ right so maybe what they've
seen on TV through social media or the
many of people who um you know the
enemies of Christ that are dominating
social media and the airwaves and the
Public Square um this is where people
are getting their idea of who Christ is
um what would you say for most people
who is Christ those people you're
talking about what are they is just a
moral teacher is he a Christ is Christ
is a moral teacher um Christ often is um
seen as this caricature
of you know a kind of um ancient
spiritual Mr Rogers how people would
interpret Mr Rogers right so you have
these EX dreams um you're familiar with
this um where people have you know if if
you've ever you know the the pantr icon
of Sinai and then if you split the
pantocrator icon and then you know you
mirror it and this is what this is what
you see you have people who they want
all blessing they they see Christ as all
blessing everything goes or you see
people where it's all law and you know
they see Christ as Zeus who's looking to
strike you down because you crossed the
street the wrong way and these extremes
none of them are true are what I'm
talking about this is what this is what
you know you find uh is is more common
than not to encounter with people and
it's dangerous because the one on the
one hand where someone just says well
you know uh what you are talking about
in regard to repentance primarily that
sounds really judgy that doesn't sound
like Jesus right and so it's they love
it when they want to quote Christ um
coming to the defense of the woman
caught in adultery they love it when he
says you know he who has sin Let Him
cast a first stone but they forget the
portion when he turns to her and says go
and sin no more you know this is how it
characterize that and it's interesting I
have experiences tons I see I bet you
have tons of experiences there's so many
experiences where uh I just talking to
two or three priests and they told me
stories that exactly what you're talking
about like people when they hear the of
boundaries when they hear of Dogma when
they hear of the need to
repentance they hear not love but the
lack of love there's no love father in
what you're saying yes yes and and
that's amazing because we have to ba we
have to break down all these Idols they
have like there's been Idols built which
have nothing to do with the reality or
with Christ who Christ is and you have
to dismantle them essentially before you
to Father these idols and these barriers
these these
obstacles um they keep Christ at Bay in
a lot of ways um one of the ways is that
if someone does have an understanding of
Christ or they are open to you know some
sort of quote unquote religious facet of
Life they see um a false dichotomy being
something that's you know necessary so
in other words well that's like kind of
nice to have that religious moral idea
of Christ but that doesn't play out in
my everyday life that that's and this
gets into things like for instance um
like in my context and and I think in a
lot of people's growing context right um
the reality of let's say
marriage and what is marriage and how
marriage is actually one of the the the
one of the portals to the path of of of
theosis of of you know holy blessed
sacramental marriage right and all our
whole society is um you know energized
by the by the evil one to not only you
know to some degree disregard marriage
in a traditional Christian sacramental
sense but to be hostile to it and and
this is one of those great examples
where it's it's a tactic that keeps
people from hearing the word from the
Lord to repent and saying like no that's
outdated no that that doesn't apply uh
no you know I don't I don't the church
has no business saying what going on you
know in my life these things like that
and it keeps them from the rich life
that Christ promises those who keep his
Commandments you know it makes total
sense that if we have a total Distortion
of Christ we're going to have a
distortion of the Mysteries because
Christ is given and gives himself in
every mystery we're going to have a
distortion of the church because he is
the body of Christ the church is the
body of Christ rather and then we're
going to have a distortion of you know
Salvation because marriage what is it
it's a path to Salvation yes everything
the church does is about salvation
everything Christ did was about our
Salvation so it it is uh so one of the
things I'm hearing you saying is that
one of the first things and the most
important things that you can do it as a
mogue as a priest or teacher initiating
people into the mystery of Christ is you
have to dismantle the idols you have to
smash the idols and you got to get rid
you got to get rid of those so they can
then wait a minute I need to look at
this whole a new I start over scr from
scratch right yes and and what happens
is once that begins people can now begin
to see how they've been held captive
that the darkness that they've been
living in is a real darkness and that it
isn't you know uh just uh Sim quote
unquote metaphorical but it has real
life impacts on them and I think this is
really important father
because even for people who are coming
to the church let's say someone's coming
to the church and and they
see um they see the chaos and they and
they they can feel the tangible darkness
in society
right but it isn't just simply enough to
try to get on the right side
ideologically quote unquote because even
then you're heart and the place where
the kingdom of God is
birthed even then there are these areas
in which people have these boundaries up
and those boundaries only come down when
you begin to see Christ as he is not as
you want him to be and many people on
the other end of it they want to wield
Christ in certain ways you know um sons
of ska almost you know and and and not
understand that number one the power of
Christ and who he is and and that Christ
is light and that you know our God is a
consuming fire that that fire when it
consumes yes it burns up sin but also it
it it brings to life these parts of our
being our hearts that have been frozen
because of the coldness the indifference
and the lawlessness that they're
encountering right because the
lawlessness can oftentimes motivate
people and they want to find um not so
different from the zealots they want to
uh you know in in the in the early
centuries they want to find a Christ
that's going to bring you know a
political leader to them and this is
just as much a part of finding and and
showing them who Christ really is so
that they can enter into the Mysteries
and and experience that resurrectional
life that's necessary that Pledge of the
spirit you know because without it and
this is this is something else that I
think is
important this idea and that tension of
your life in the Orthodox Church needs
to Bear the fruit of some sort of what I
call like the kiss of Eternity where you
feel and you and and you experience that
transformative
resurrectional Grace in your life like
St Simeon the new theion talks about you
know it's like it isn't just relegated
for those you know for monastics and
such it's it's for all those who would
seek to come and enter into the
Mysteries and partake of the Divine fire
right right so so the second thing I'm
hearing is that in order for someone to
smash the idol see Christ as he is and
therefore be free he's got to also be
prepared to see himself as he is there's
no other way come to self- knowledge and
that's a frightening thing for a lot of
people it is it is and it and it's for
everyone it's for everyone it's it's for
someone who is you know neck deep in you
know the kind of carnal sins the the the
the Temptations from the left and those
who are you know coming and and they see
them you know they're they're good
citizens you know they're they're
escaping the the liberal you know tide
of the day but they still are in need of
repentance as well and and I think this
is really key because showing people who
Christ is and that once you see once you
begin to see Christ you begin to see
yourself and then here here's the thing
in my mind in my experience one of the
most important things about catechizing
someone and preparing their soul to
encounter Christ is that the grace Burns
and you often times you the tradition of
the
church the aesthetic thread that's baked
through the the tradition of the church
it's there for a reason it's there
because without it you don't gain the
stamina to encounter Holiness and that's
another thing is that the encounter with
Holiness is often times painful but pain
and discomfort is not inherently bad or
evil and in fact this is one of the
problems with our culture is that we're
so
hedonistic at our core um and you see
this across the board father whether
it's unfortunate practices that many
people get involved with you know via
images in the internet or even seeing
you know certain people from certain
schools of thought of mental health
which teach them anything that makes you
uncomfortable get away from it if you
want to be healthy you know
psychologically you just need to find a
context that assuages and you know
affirms everything that you that you
feel needs to be affirmed well the whole
society father is telling us we need
painkillers right we need painkillers
across the board that's that's That's
essential to get through the day we take
various medicines various drugs we uh we
basically are numbed by
watching the various media we could you
know it's an Escape it's a consolation
temporary consolation so vast majority
of society is both engaged in it and and
has being shaped and and brainwashed
into thinking the way you're going to
enjoy this life and be happy is to avoid
pain so what you're telling them is
basically you know heresy quote unquote
from their perspective right what are
you telling me that true Joy is actually
through pain and suffering yep yep the
cross the cross is
is going to bring bring me joy how's
that work exactly when I'm avoiding it
in every other way right and it's
interesting because you give people
simple examples of well um depending on
their own personal contexts I say uh you
know if they work out I say you know
you're in shape how did you get that way
did you get that way by eating you know
twinkies and pizza and sitting on the
couch no pain no gain right no gain and
and and so that leads me to another
thing Father which is people they look
at Orthodoxy and they see the beauty but
because of the the broken lens that in
which the world has given them it it
they have a they see it through a very
fractured kind of
complexity and trying to get them to
understand no the life in Christ is
actually very simple and that Simplicity
is a huge part of becoming a disciple
because hubris actually can motivate
people to want to make things more
complicated right and people want to
complicate things because they want to
make they want to have something in
which you know they're
conquering and Jesus is the one who
conquers they want to justify things
right that's right status quo that's
right that's right and so getting them
to understand it's like no and this is
why it's so important this isn't about
how you are perceiving things this is
how the church has re receive the church
has taught and that experience this is
what you need to see and so that leads
also to getting them to understand the
Saints which I'll
say that can be a difficult thing
because a lot of people don't have a
framework they they have no concept of
reading the lives of the Saints and so
for them it seems more like fairy tales
than anything else and
unfortunately and I I understand this um
there's there's some contemporary kind
of like thought and movement that you
know in regards of taking some of the
abstract aspects of narrative and saying
well this is how the lives of the Saints
work and I see where they're going with
this but it's a dangerous road because
what you can get is you can get people
who want
to over intellectualize the lives of the
Saints which then neuters the aesthetic
aspect and the incarnational which I
think is the core thing the
incarnational aspect of the lives of the
Saints and that's very dangerous because
at that point then now you're only a few
steps removed from some of the kind of
psychological constructs that are
presented with young and other things
like that that you know can just say
well these are like archetypes and
things like that and that's that's very
dangerous because what's lurking behind
a lot of people's you know worldview are
are are new age understandings that
they're not even aware of it's Gnostic
and it's anti- incarnational it's anti-
incarnational right so absolutely so I'm
seeing that people are attracted the
Christ the church but then they've got
to come and deal with themselves come to
self- knowledge they've got to Embrace
pain so they're they're on they're on
the exactly opposite trajectory of the
world toward Christ toward true life
toward true Discovery and then they're
going to have to they're going to have
to trust that's the thing that you're
talking about here is what I'm hearing
you is saying well they got to trust but
trust is very hard for them because
they've been burned most people have
been burned left and right because
that's what the sinful world does it
burns people left and right because
they're all we're all you know
egotistical so they very hard it's very
hard to trust not only because there's
not very many trustworthy people it
seems like you know in society because
they're all ruled by their passions but
then we ourselves yes don't want to give
up and trust and we're saying well no
you have to trust the Saints right well
they're saying well the Saints who are
the Saints this is like fairy tale land
like you said so that's a huge
pedagogical and citical roadblock that
you got to face as a as a priest you
need to trust Christ that means trust
the saints that means trust the church
how many comments under our videos by
Protestants are like don't trust the
church don't trust tradition don't trust
the Saints you know only only only
Christ because and so what they don't
realize is that the Christ that they're
talking about doesn't exist like they're
trusting their own idea of Christ most
of the time and more importantly they
have no they do not have a Christian
understanding of of neighbor either
because it's it's this they have the uh
vertical of the Cross supposedly right
yeah me and Jesus me and Jesus I mean
forgive me this is a little bit of a let
me digress a little bit further this is
something else to also take in
mind a l even if someone does have an
understanding of Christ but let's just
say like they they have a little bit
more of a working knowledge
right
surprisingly now you're dealing with a
lot of people who are there's a growing
movement of people and you'll see these
people you know even kind of being more
quote unquote informed as they as they
would like to think of themselves um
they're they're refuting trinitarian
theology so the so there's even a
there's even a growing movement of
people who you know they'll take Jesus
but they reject the Trinity and so that
is a whole another thing that I'm
starting to encounter more in regards of
of speaking with people so anyways
getting back to it they have the
vertical so they think of me and god
let's say they think they got that
figured
out but you know the horizontal of of of
you and your fellow man the other part
of the Cross and they they miss out on
that and they don't understand that and
one of the best ways to understand what
it means to be you know a bearer of of
the Life of Christ is to begin to see
the the lives of the Saints because the
lives of the Saints are the ones who
show us how to live and when we begin to
see how to live then we can only then
live in proper Community but if we're
running on our own kind of idiocentric
ideas which a lot of people do then that
life of the cross the vertical and the
horizontal is oftentimes fractured and
broken so I I find those who embrace
becoming students of hagiography the
lives of the Saints they learn
to enter into the communion and the
fellowship of of the
body those who don't those who are a bit
resistant they tend to have a
very kind of idor rhythmic
idiocentric approach to the life in the
church which is again fundamentally not
incarnational you
know well we got we got te technical
issues over here but that's all right
that's not a big deal so uh then how do
you get how do you get people to to
trust I think that's the big issue for
me what I see again and again how do
they get how do people end up trusting
the church trusting Christ trusting the
saints that I think this is where um
it's it's those of us within the body
that are you know out there fishing and
cleaning the fish um both clergy and lay
people alike
this is where we have to really begin
engaging our own um inner life our own
aesthetical Endeavor and it's learning
to you know to Bear the burdens of one
another and to learn to be longsuffering
because by being
patient not in a sense of being passive
you know and indifferent but engaging in
in in being quick with the word of
Christ quick with you know the truth of
the church and and being able to be Al
light for these people as they begin to
navigate their lives kind of being
deconstructed because this is the other
thing when you begin to really approach
Christ right and I and I and this is key
father um whatever effort you put in if
you put in you know $1 doll the Lord
will put in a thousand you know it's
it's you can't outgive the Lord and so
when you begin to approach Christ and I
always warn people look you're
approaching the true Christ now and so
you know it's like um
uh Christ is not you know getting back
to who Christ is it's not this kind of
safe you know I can kind of package him
and kind of put him on the Shelf Christ
will begin to you know he is light and
when he shows up things are revealed and
you begin to see yourself and when you
begin to see yourself as you actually
are and you begin to see that you don't
have love you begin to see that you
aren't this great person you begin to
see that the life that you've been
living is filled with darkness and it's
destroying you and you're dying then
what happens is there's a real crisis
and that crisis is good and so this is
why it's necessary to teach people just
because you're uncomfortable that
doesn't mean something good isn't
happening that in fact this crisis is
precisely some of the evidence of Christ
in your life and so getting walking with
them and that's where we have to come in
and and and be steadfast with them and
just keep pointing them to the truth of
God's love the power of
repentance and that the transformative
power of the Cross you will Harbor you
will kind of Harbor the storm right in
the shadow of the cross two things from
the and from the says Des fathers come
to mind when you're talking about this
the one is that they would they would be
very uh they said you know if there's no
Temptations God has abandoned us that
was one of the things that you see that
the Saints would expect like that's that
means that I'm getting purified that
means god is dealing with me without
Temptations there's no salvation the
world thinks just the opposite if I have
temptations that I'm not being saved
that's right right then so that's a
totally opposite and then the second
thing is that it says somewhere I think
it's
St Ava longinus I think it is who says
have you seen your brother you've seen
your
lord uh so you know people think me and
Jesus like you said or they're looking
somewhere else outside of reality
outside of their society outside of
their family outside of their wife and
husband to find Christ to be with Christ
and yet they're right right in front of
you uh and and then if you think about
the Lord's words that you
know Temptations will come from man a
man's household like the the the
struggle and the it's right there in
front of us you know you cannot separate
the the the greatest command
Commandments and that is to love Lord
God with all your hearts mind and your
neighbors yourself that's the like you
said the vertical and the horizontal
they're Inseparable Inseparable you
cannot come to Christ with if you do not
embrace the the brother so it's all
right there in front of us and the thing
is Father you know it's it Bears witness
throughout the whole of your experience
when you come to the church
because listen we're all familiar with
this you know someone comes to the
church they are um enamored and Amazed
by the beauty of the church
which is
obvious but then that process of coming
in becoming a choir a cak human you know
getting catechized being obedient being
faithful being
consistent um the Romanticism can wear
off and
especially where we are so you know kind
of um uh fast
food spirituality fast food life
everything now everything quick um and
what I find is you know some people they
may even want to have um you know they
have a desire for experience quote
unquote but when you begin to try to
tell them look you know the the evidence
and you know the not only the evidence
of Christ but the evidence of your
transformation is going to be found in
the slow mundane
things the Liturgy right the Liturgy is
the most profound thing uh I believe
it's saying Gregor Theologian who said
that you know the Eucharist is the
center of the universe you mean you mean
if I don't like the Divine Liturgy I'm
not going to like heaven you're not
going to like heaven and if you and if
you can't learn to find God in Stillness
if you can't learn to find God in what
what eventually becomes known and
familiar to you you're not gonna ever
find God right and it's it's really
important to understand that father
you're just a narrow-minded you know
bigoted uh Orthodox who who you know how
can you tell me who you know how don't
you get a lot of that oh
yeah get a lot of P push back and say
well why do you think you have a like a
a what do they say a a monopoly on God
or something yeah yeah and and what's
interesting is again um I would say look
at the fruit though look at the fruit
and the fruit unfortunately for a lot of
people gets lost in the mix and what I
mean by that is getting past
because having arguments and and having
talking points is is great but when it
comes down getting back to catechizing
and when it gets down to Brass tax it's
preparing someone on how to enter into
the
Mysteries and that goes beyond your own
speculation it goes beyond your own
opinion it goes beyond you and that's
where the Reber begins to meet the road
because you need to and that's the thing
I this is a common thing I tell people I
say you know because every every group
of cumans you know there's there's the
one or a couple or depending who they're
still struggling with that kind of
American prestant mindset of like well I
know best who you're going to tell me
blah blah blah and I always tell them I
say look around everyone here including
me has bent the
knee there's no other way every knee
shall bow and every tongue shall confess
in the church we've already bent the
knee it's already a done
Paul says the church submits to Christ
that's right if you're in the church
that's your stance that's right
submission to Christ that's right and
father I just want to say this this is
really really really important um that
submission to Christ is everything
because only those who have submitted to
Christ and and you can only find that
true submission in the Orthodox church
because the Orthodox Church alone has
the means by which you learn to submit
your whole life to Christ
not just the external but the heart more
importantly and that's the only way to
discern Antichrist that's the only way
to discern what is true that's the only
way to discern what is truly beautiful
and good beauty is the revelation of
Christ true beauty is his
Revelation so if you don't have that if
you don't know how to submit to Christ
you have nothing you have nothing so
let's talk a little about the fruits
because I I I um you know had the one of
many many many people but I did have the
blessing of of spending a number of
occasions with elder friend when I
visited here in in Greece and so one of
the things I noticed very quickly and
I've said this many times but to get to
the point of the fruit because I think
what's important for us is to be able to
take sit back and take our temperature
spiritually like we want to know am I
making progress right or is it just like
going in motion or is it just like I'm
just playing the role or you know I'm a
moral good person that that what Sal
salvation is so many people I think just
get they they they're running and
eventually they get tired and then they
sit back on their heels and they say
look I'm in the church and I'm doing
everything right it's enough like let me
go drink my beer and watch my football
game on Sunday after church because I'm
doing what I did enough all right I've
arrived I'm in the church it's enough
right isn't that don't people get a
little complacent get a little I think
it's a big Temptation because hey after
all I'm better than everybody else
because I'm an orthodox right little
fical moment of reflection but the
fruits are really interesting I so I saw
in Elder of friend among other great
Elders that on AOS what you saw with the
fruits and what were the fruits to me
and what I this is how I understood it
is
that in his every fiber in his breathing
in his way he sat the way he spoke the
way he looked at you the way you know
his thoughts words Deeds impulses
glances decisions desires you know in
the in the UN let's say the unconscious
person yeah right the person who just is
the inner man who just exists you saw
the holy you felt and saw the presence
of God it wasn't like oh he was such an
amazing speaker or or he was so
convincing because his catechism his
speeches just blew me away and I just no
it wasn't it wasn't like that I mean he
there gifts like that that God gives to
people but that's not where it's that's
not where you can tell that this person
has been initiated into the mystery and
lives the mystery and has gone from the
image to likeness right which is theosis
right how when we go from the we're all
given the recration of the image right
we're all everybody who's in the church
has been restored the image has been
restored right but then we fill it we
fill it up again with garbage because
that's we go back to the vomit but the
the whole process of the church is to go
from the image now and then like Adam
would have if he had continued arrive at
the likeness and that's what happens in
the lives of the Saints and that's what
Christ did of course he he was the The
Perfect Image in likess he's called so
the fruits are in the whole person
that's where you know oh he's made
progress look he's transformed so maybe
uh is a big part of the cical process is
hopefully that over time we're taking
our temperature we're looking at the
fruits we're looking at ourselves in the
mirror we're not just seeing this Fallen
sick human being anymore actually
somebody somebody who well before I was
baptized I was plagued by this sin I
don't do that sin anymore right before I
was baptized I thought about I had all
these doubts or I had all these thoughts
I was judging left I don't do that
anymore and we should be able to say I
don't do that anymore right we should
it's we should be cognizant of the
effect and the fruit of the spirit in
our life otherwise what is this like a
mirage like a dream we're living in
right right and not only should you be
able to say you know I I've left this
behind
but you should also say and I still have
more to go yes and that's I think that's
where the complacency for a lot of
people comes into play they don't want
to face the struggle ahead they want to
face the struggle ahead they think oh
it's it's good enough and I know this
seems redundant father I know it seems
like kind of like a circular knowledge
but forgive me I mean this is this is
just what I have and then and this is
what I know because I'm in the church
first and foremost I'm Orthodox first
and foremost
and then as a priest I'm not I'm not uh
I'm not a particularly you know
articulate man intelligent Man educated
man but I I love Christ he saved me he
saved me and he who has been forgiven
much loves much and that's why I mean I
know it seems you know like kind of a
one trick pony but really for me Christ
is everything because when you acquire
the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit point
the Holy Spirit illumines and points you
to Christ when you pursue the father you
can only pursue the father through
through the son Christ becomes this this
Source all the all in all and that's
what I find is lacking for people they
they will come
in and they're like I'm good I'm
Orthodox and this and that and they can
be there for a
while but they're comes to this point
where it's like they return to the vomit
like you said and the only reason why
anyone ever does is because they're
lacking in love for Christ I know that's
harsh to say I know that people are
going to be offended if they hear that
but I'm telling you from
experience the consistent thing that I
see is a lack of love for Christ right
because you can hate your sin all you
want and that's really good and it's
necessary but if you don't have love for
Christ right then you just become you
know a Pharisee you be it becomes about
how how great you can see how great you
appear in your own eyes maybe that's one
of the keys of people falling away or
just being stagnant is that they don't
have they don't live for and in Christ
they begin to become religious yes yes
and then and then they they say well you
know the externals and the least common
denominator what I have to do and uh uh
you know uh or whatever and though
that's where I I love the term St pus
gives us
Fimo
that's that's the that's the key because
you can see that like somebody who just
we've met people in our life I hope
we've all met people in life where
they're just on fire for Zeal they just
want to do everything for Christ for the
truth they just they live it and they're
sacrificing left and right and they're
not thinking about the sacrifice they're
not they're not calculating how much
would it cost me why you know what is it
going to cost me to sacrifice for Christ
that's the Fimo that St pus talks about
we need to just do it for the love of
Christ they ask us to go one mile we go
two and we don't think about it we don't
see oh let's see how much is it going to
cost me to do that and so if we have
that then I think that's a good sign
that we're doing it for Christ and in
Christ and and and it's and it's that's
transformative then like that transforms
P people from humans to Divine humans
like love you know the fathers uh will
give this uh process right uh obviously
we're familiar with you know
purification illumination you know
theosis deification but they also speak
about you know the
slave the servant of the Sun and and
take a little bit of Liberty and I I
presented to people in this way the
slave the
soldier and and the Son and the reason
why I do that is because slave and
servant are very similar in our context
to the modern year and Soldier kind of
approximates a little bit more the
fathers are saying you know the slave
operates and works out of fear of
punishment and the soldier when I say
the soldier he's operating out of you
know reward you know and that can come
in all kinds of you know ways and not
just kind of like material game but also
you know notoriety Fame all that stuff
but then there's the sun and the sun has
photo what was the what was the was the
name of the soul the the military guy in
Russia just just bolted U Gren oh yeah
Gren yeah yeah they were saying people
were online saying well you know he it
was big about it about money because you
know he was a mercenary right so that's
it and that's it there you go you see
that in the soldiers you know it's like
Fame get big name and Soldier like
Napoleon or whatever but and then
there's also the money so yeah that's
that's the desire they want to they want
to earn Heaven they want the reward of
Heaven that's it and and I think that's
very helpful that's a patristic kind of
you know metric that's helpful
because anyone can look at themselves
and be and if you're honest you can say
like I'm still a slave or like yeah I'm
definitely a soldier or you can say like
you know God help me but I I think I
think I'm getting there to be a son and
that's what you want you want to get to
this point where you're you're operating
and you're seeking only to
to out of love for your heavenly father
you know so out of love for your king
you know so so they they come to the
church they go through a whole catechal
program they're learning about the
church but they're also learning how to
live the life of the church yes and a
big part of this is learning that this
is now the
beginning that your baptism is the
beginning not the end and that's I
really try to emphasize that with people
because you know people they can feel
like okay I've worked hard quote unquote
worked hard and now here I am I've kind
of arrived let me just catch let me
relax a little bit and I'm like no no no
because now really um that you were
already on the devil's radar but now
it's it's on and so well it would be
equivalent of like okay the can you
think of a soldier who goes through boot
camp and then says okay now I'm done
like you're just starting that's right
now you know how to use your now you
know how to use your weapons now you
know you're going to war now now the war
begins before you were being trained for
it now you're actually engaged in it
that's right that's right and and this
this is a key thing too because you know
I try to walk a I try to walk a you know
rle path with this but um there is a
reality and this is a key thing for me
you know as a catechist is really
Awakening people to um the war because
it isn't you know there's this balance
where some people they come in and they
can have you know especially they come
from like let's say a charismatic
background let's say right um they can
have an overdeveloped sense of you know
their kind of radar for evil where they
view they think the devil is under every
Rock right and you know it's really
every other Rock right the devil's the
devil's there and so getting them to
understand it's like look okay this this
catechism has really been about you
understanding the need for your
purification how purification is going
to affect you what it looks like and the
purification the fruit of it is being
able to see Christ and being able to
enter into the Mysteries and participate
okay that's great but once you come in
it's very important that they understand
now you need to really learn how to
engage spiritual warfare in a sober
sense sober sense right and really begin
to understand how the devil is going to
try to
undermine this develop velopment and
this process this this process of
Salvation because yes you have your
passions yes you have the world but once
you become an Orthodox Christian and in
particular if I'm trying to with God's
help and through the work of the Holy
Spirit and gender Zeal for Christ and
repentance in the life of the newly
illumined it's on as we say it's on and
that war it's a crime to not properly
prepare someone for that war exactly
it's they're going to get hit they're
GNA well if we as priests uh dumb down
things so low that we make catechism
into basically a you know Orthodoxy 101
College freshman course where you learn
about the church and then we you say oh
do you want to be a Christian oh yeah
I'd like to be CH okay there there're
we'll baptize you next week if that's
what we're doing and then they fall away
who who's responsible for that father
that's right that's right we're
responsible for that and and God you
imagine a general a general taking a
whole bunch of unequipped soldiers into
war and then blaming the soldiers when
they hadn't been trained properly yeah
yeah it's it's it's truly tragic and I
think that's the thing because you know
father um as you know we've talked about
this before and everyone kind of knows
uh Orthodoxy is on fire right now you
know there's so many people who are
interested in learning and it's it's
wonderful but I think the reality is is
and this is what I don't hear people
talking a lot about so maybe you know
just bringing in up here the attrition
rate you don't really hear people
talking about the attrition rate and
there's an attrition rate there is and
and that's you know God help us that's
that's that that's a scandal and that's
tragic you know this attrition rate and
I think this is one of the reasons why
this that people would be first and
foremost properly received in the church
I mean that's that's the key for so much
father we are focused on in our work
here Orthodox ethos we're focused so
much on two basic things that we see the
church at least from our perspective is
in big need and that is the whole
question of catechism on all of its
levels both before and after baptism and
then the actual initiation proper
initiation into the life of the church
through the Mysteries because I think
that it is so we're so I don't know how
to say it just we're so weak and so
compromised in so many ways in in that
area and of course that's the foundation
so if you're building on
sand you might put up something really
quick right you might be able to put
something up it's but it's GNA be it's
going to be just a few moments maybe you
know in time until the earthquake comes
and that thing is just pieces that's
going to be it's be rubble and I think
we saw that with Co right in many ways
like we did and for give me father if I
could just kind of throw in a couple
things that I've seen over the years
just a couple things that I think might
be interesting one of the things that I
find very fascinating is that this issue
of proper reception is really key
because obviously number one um it's a
problem like everywhere you know people
and and really people meeting well
priest meeting well they don't they
don't really understand how important
this is yeah right yeah and I will just
share some things that I think are
really um I I think maybe some people
aren't thinking about in regard to
this besides all the things which you've
talked about at length and in depth
about you know issues in regards of
um proper reception within the church
one of the things that people I don't I
don't think it's on their radar is that
when someone enters into the church
improperly not only are you depriving
them
of Grace
honestly but you are
now setting up a
presupposition by which that person may
or may not begin to
interpret
practice as you know something of a of a
kind of personal nature do you
understand what I'm saying you're
teaching them methodology or an approach
which is not Orthodox it's not Orthodox
and what happens is now they're they're
they're entering into the life with a
with a serious
defect and that defect will begin to
then really kind of
color every aspect of their life in
Christ and this is where you this is
where you see things that should be
rudimentary and fundamental in regards
of you know developing a developing the
life in Christ
repentance you know and even things
forgive me for other things like joy
things like discernment you know what I
mean these things become
distorted and and we really are giving
we're really setting up people to to
have these birth
defects and when this when this
happens the the consequences are often
very dire because these people will have
children these people will begin to now
have positions in the church
church and these um places of influence
both in a natural sense of having a
family and having influence in the life
of a parish if someone doesn't even
realize that they have this kind of like
handicap right they're presenting
something that can be in many ways
fundamentally distorted right and you
see this when it gets down to now crisis
right when the Holy Spirit illumines the
Confessor and says look
this is an issue in your life you need
to approach it this way they don't have
the faculty of obedience they don't have
the faculty to really receive what's
being said to them noetic right and so
it's not they don't even necessarily
need to be Protestants right but just
this inability to really enter into that
blessing of
obedience to really receive healing to
really navigate the Warfare to really
you know be
given an even deeper path of repentance
it's it's it's hindered for them so an
improper a a a um partial or very weak
catechism and an improper initiation
sets up the people for failure
spiritually it sets them up for failure
for failure spiritually and then they uh
are are very much hampered to to respond
to what the church is guiding and
teaching them and then they become
frustrated and and they might even write
off like this is all just impossible I
mean you're asking me you're asking me
to
be this and I can't even do this and and
yet I'm supposed to be able to do that
right but I can't I can't get there
because spiritually I'm not been I I
don't live the aesthetic life but also I
haven't been given the tools I haven't
been I haven't been purified of my old
ideas and so we're setting people up and
then what happens is well we end up
justifying it and and I think this
happens almost on without thinking what
I'm describing here is not something
consciously going about it's like
they're just this it's just a natural
reaction if if if look if you've got a
bunch of people at the level of you know
let's say High School baseball or maybe
even like you know little league but
everybody is expecting and talking about
the big big
leagues what are you g to do after a
while you're going to say forget the big
leagues they don't exist it's not
possible that that's for another time
another day that was once upon a time
and so look if you're if
you're at the level of little league or
maybe better you're good right we're
good don't worry about it and that's
where you see a lot of people
actually who they're in the
church but they do not have this hunger
to to keep pursuing Christ and this is
where even as qual Orthodox Christians
you know it's like Christ is really the
moral teacher for them right and the the
church is the club where you
know it's uh it might as well be the
rotary club or the Elks club right and
and here's and here's why this is
important because I've run into
this what about happiness they use the
word Joy but really what they're talking
about is happiness what about happiness
father what about this and this and that
it's like man you're always talking
about struggle you're always talking
about this and that and I'm
like yes because that is the spiritual
life and that look around you and this
this is the thing without the ability to
discern the the lullabi that the world
has given
you you then begin to want to hear that
lullabi in the church right and just
kind of like go to sleep
and if we remember the Lord says on the
one hand I've come to make your joy full
to fulfill your joy right but then what
is he what does he do and what is what
is the reality of the Apostles what what
life did they live live they lived a
life of martyrdom they ended up being
Martyrs that's right they were exiled
the Apostle Paul commemorates all of the
difficulties and struggles that he had
almost died how many times it was
persecuted was this was that and he
promised that you will be persecuted he
promised that you will you'll have to
pick up your cross and yet he said I've
come to fulfill and give your you
fullness of joy so obviously the joy of
the Apostles of the Saints of the of the
Christians is not the joy of the world
no and and elsewhere the Lord says they
will rejoice and you will weep right in
other words they will have the joy of
The Superficial worldly Joy of success
and you will be rejected by the world
and yet he says your joy will be filled
so the the Christians need to double
down and say well what Joy is this that
I'm really seeking and what is the joy
that Christ
maybe I'm not seeking the Christ Christ
given joy and that's exactly it father
and that gets us again full circle where
I do think it really comes back down to
okay who is
Christ really who is Christ because
listen it's Inseparable who is Christ
and what is a Christian they go
absolutely absolutely because if I
present to you look this is this is the
spiritual life right and this is the
spiritual life this is what the fathers
have shown this is the experience of
those who have made it quote unquote
what is their experience okay is their
experience
consistent yes where where where are
these anomalies show me you know St P
you know St you know St Mary Jane who
you know had a very happy life had
everything she wanted you know like like
like she doesn't exist she she doesn't
exist right so you want to now argue
about the the tradition and the witness
of those who have pursued Christ with
everything that they got against your
desire to be quote unquote happy right
now now let me just finish this father
because yeah this is the thing I'm
trying to get at does that mean that
there isn't Joy No in fact I can tell
you the there's Greater Joy the worst
day of my life in the church than my
best life outside the church yes no one
can understand that until you do it it's
a same thing when people love athletes
and they love musicians right and they
love all these great okay well listen
have you put the time in like name the
athlete have you put the time in like
name the musician have you put the time
in like whatever you know artist or
whatever you you see the fruit of
something right but behind all that is
years and years of
sacrifice to learn the scales to learn
how to throw the ball to learn how to
Ure the run to learn how to hone the eye
to learn how to hone The Voice the
spiritual life is not only no different
all of those things are actually given
to us to point to the spiritual
life they're all given for us to learn
this is what it means to have spiritual
life is to sacrifice and to hone for
this for these moments of life that's
where you find Joy but you won't find it
unless you enter into it and do it and
that's why the aesthetical life that's
why repentance is so
key so one of the one of the proofs for
all of us is going forward is going to
be this Joy this inexpressible joy that
Christ gives to the the one who is a
struggler who's picked up his cross who
is becoming free of the passions that's
the joy that we want and that's can't be
taken from us right he says it won't be
taken from us and that'll be a sign that
actually we're becoming truly initiated
into Christ at the mogue has done his
job so to speak right and we're now
living the mystery of Christ within us
because only if we have Christ within us
we're goingon to have that deep joy that
can't be taken from us real Freedom true
Freedom true freedom but it's gonna be
the cross at the same time we talk about
the famous expression from great lent
Haro leapy in Greek joyful sorrow right
one at the same time you have both at
the same time it's a mixed and you can't
have one without the other no if you're
gonna have true Joy yeah you can't you
can't yeah and you can't have it's it's
getting us full circle back to that uh
icon of the pantat or Sinai you can't
have all blessing you know and and no
law you know you can't have all the law
like no blessing it's it's the fullness
it's and and and I guess that's the
thing to in regard to this inoculation
and just letting people know look the
Orthodox Church is is the only place
where Christ is worshiped in his
fullness as he is as he has called man
to worship him not as not as you want
to right he's the master not you he's
submission submission put your put your
ideas aside we have we have and this
will be probably for another interview
but we have a growing segment of people
in the United States and other places
that are calling themselves Orthodox
Christians and yet they're introducing
IDE ideas that are not according to
Christ not according to the holy
tradition we see this increasingly uh
they're driven by agendas and uh
ideologies and you know reformations and
all the rest on the one hand it's
extremely troubling on the other hand if
you know a little bit of church history
it's it's been going on a long time yeah
this is goes back to the at least I mean
you can see major expressions of The
Same Spirit of uh of in and Distortion
in the 1920s for instance in the Living
Church in Russia which was embraced by
other other patriarches I mean this was
not just a Russian problem so there um
there for another another podcast we'll
look forward to having it uh we're gonna
have to start just like we said we're
gonna smash those idols and people have
to see come to see themselves for who
they are and deal and go deeper in self-
knowledge I think that we as Orthodox
Christians also need to collectively
have that session of let's see who we
are what's going on and let's talk about
you know what what we need to double
down on and correct and repent of um and
protect ourselves from uh you know
basically living in the delusion that
we're Orthodox when we're not even when
we're when we're living according to the
world and the worldly ideas that's a big
Temptation going forward I I'm sure
that's a part of the MOG job after
initiation as much as it is before uh
keeping people on the straighten and
narrow in the kingom of God not the
kingdom of man yeah absolutely thank you
very much father for the conversation
helping
our viewers listeners and uh and U
readers um this will be U offered along
with the bonus content of our upcoming
book which I know you've been uh privy
to we're very excited about it we got a
copy here of the hard cover that's going
to be coming out
uh on the reception of the heterodox uh
450 Pages U uh trying to cover
everything we can for the sake of the up
building the church salvation of Souls
and the proclamation of the gospel and
this U so this is an offering to all of
those who've joined us at Anam press we
appreciate you participating and look
forward to your uh your thoughts and and
contribution on that topic in due time
um and uh I know you have a lot to say
about it because you're living as we
said in the trenches you know what you
know why this this book is important
absolutely absolutely it's essential for
right now it's essential I mean thank
you Father pray for us we look forward
to seeing you again soon amen thank you
Father it's my
joy
[Music]
for
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