Divine Renovation: An Interview with Fr Mallon Part 1

Summary

Peter Herbeck from Renewal Ministries interviews Father James Mallon, the pastor of St. Benedict's Parish in Halifax, Nova Scotia. They discuss the transformation of parishes from maintenance-focused to mission-oriented, emphasizing the need for a new model that combines theology with actionable steps. Father Mallon shares insights from his book, 'Divine Renovation,' detailing his journey in revitalizing his parish by embracing a missionary identity, fostering personal encounters with Jesus, and utilizing evangelistic tools like Alpha to create cultural shifts within the church.

Takeaways

• 📚 Father James Mallon authored the book 'Divine Renovation: Bringing your parish from maintenance to mission,' focusing on transforming parishes from maintenance-focused to mission-driven.
• 🏠 St. Benedict's parish in Halifax is a model of a dynamic, missionary parish that embraces the new evangelization.
• ⚖️ The book 'Divine Renovation' is about 50% theology and 50% practical models, aiming to bridge the gap between strong theological foundations and effective pastoral practice.
• 🔄 The primary challenge Father Mallon identifies is the need for a shift from a maintenance mindset to a mission-oriented approach in parishes.
• 🛠️ He emphasizes the importance of having both a solid theological foundation and a practical model for parish renewal.
• 🧩 A key issue in many parishes is an identity crisis, where the true missionary nature of the Church is often forgotten.
• 🚀 Father Mallon advocates for a cultural shift within parishes, where making disciples and equipping them for ministry becomes the central focus.
• 🌍 The Great Commission, particularly the task to 'make disciples,' is highlighted as the primary mission of the Church.
• 💬 He stresses that evangelization should lead to the creation of disciples who are then transformed into apostles or missionary disciples.
• 🔥 Vision and passion are crucial for parish leaders, and Father Mallon believes that understanding the Church's missionary identity is the first step towards effective parish renewal.

Q & A

Who is being interviewed in the transcript, and what is his role?

Father James Mallon, the pastor of St. Benedict's Parish in Halifax, Nova Scotia, is being interviewed.

What is the main topic of the interview?

The interview focuses on Father James Mallon's book, 'Divine Renovation: Bringing Your Parish from Maintenance to Mission,' and the concept of transforming a parish to be more mission-focused.

What is the fundamental problem in the Church, according to Father Mallon?

Father Mallon believes that the fundamental problem in the Church is an identity crisis, where the Church has forgotten its missionary nature.

What does Father Mallon mean by 'maintenance to mission'?

'Maintenance to mission' refers to shifting a parish's focus from merely maintaining the status quo to actively engaging in evangelization and making disciples.

What does Father Mallon identify as the main task of the Church?

The main task of the Church, according to Father Mallon, is to make disciples, as emphasized in the Great Commission.

What challenges does Father Mallon mention about changing a parish's culture?

Father Mallon discusses the challenge of pushback when introducing changes, as many parishioners resist altering the status quo despite agreeing on the need for improvement.

What tool has St. Benedict's Parish used as their primary evangelistic tool?

St. Benedict's Parish has used Alpha as their primary evangelistic tool to introduce people to the person of Jesus.

How does Father Mallon describe the role of vision in leading a parish?

Father Mallon describes vision as a view of the future that generates passion. A leader must have a clear, exciting vision to effectively lead a parish.

What does Father Mallon say about the connection between identity and mission?

Father Mallon states that understanding the Church's identity as missionary is crucial to defining its mission and that knowing who we are helps determine where we need to go.

How does Father Mallon view the relationship between making disciples and transforming a parish?

Father Mallon believes that making disciples is essential for transforming a parish's culture. As more people encounter Jesus and become disciples, the parish culture begins to shift towards mission.

Outlines

00:00

📚 Introduction and Overview of Father James Mallon's Work

Peter Herbeck introduces Father James Mallon, a pastor known for his dynamic work at St. Benedict's Parish in Halifax, Nova Scotia. Father James authored the book 'Divine Renovation: Bringing Your Parish from Maintenance to Mission,' which is the focus of the interview. The conversation explores the motivations behind the book, stemming from Father James' experiences and challenges as a parish priest. He discusses the need for a model of a renewed parish, emphasizing the importance of combining theology with practical application. Father James reflects on his journey towards creating a vibrant, mission-focused parish and the ongoing challenges they face in achieving their goals.

05:00

🔍 The Great Commission and the Church's True Mission

Father James discusses the Great Commission's role in shaping the Church's mission. He explains that while parishes excel in 'going,' 'baptizing,' and 'teaching,' they often fall short in 'making disciples,' which is the core of the Commission. A disciple, according to Father James, is someone who has encountered Jesus and chosen to follow Him. The conversation highlights the Church's need to shift from a maintenance mindset to one focused on evangelization and discipleship, with an emphasis on creating missionary disciples who actively engage with their faith and the broader world.

10:01

⚙️ Implementing Change at St. Benedict's Parish

Father James recounts the challenges he faced when he first arrived at St. Benedict's Parish, which had recently undergone significant structural changes. Despite the congregation's hope for stability, Father James introduced a vision for a deeper transformation, emphasizing the need to move beyond simply maintaining the parish to actively reversing decline through mission-oriented activities. He discusses the resistance to change that often arises when parishes attempt to shift focus from inward maintenance to outward mission, revealing underlying issues in the Church's identity and purpose.

15:03

🎯 The Importance of Vision and Identity in Parish Renewal

Father James reflects on the critical role of vision and identity in leading a parish towards renewal. He emphasizes that a clear sense of purpose and direction is essential for any leader who wants to inspire and guide their community. This vision must be deeply rooted in the parish's identity, which in turn dictates the direction of its mission. Father James shares that understanding who they are as a Church allows them to evaluate what a healthy parish should look like and where it should be headed, setting the foundation for future growth and transformation.

Keywords

💡Divine Renovation

Divine Renovation is the title of Father James Mallon's book and a central concept of the video. It represents a paradigm shift from traditional parish maintenance to mission-focused activities. This concept underpins the interview's exploration of revitalizing church communities to be more mission-driven, focusing on evangelization and actively engaging with the parish community. Throughout the interview, Father Mallon emphasizes how his book proposes a theological and practical model to transform parishes into dynamic centers of faith and mission.

💡Missionary Church

The term 'Missionary Church' is used to describe the Church's fundamental nature and purpose, as emphasized by Father James Mallon. It refers to the idea that the Church does not merely have a mission; rather, it embodies mission as its core identity. This concept is crucial for understanding the shift from maintenance to mission, as it encourages parishes to focus on outreach, evangelization, and disciple-making. Father Mallon argues that many churches have lost this missionary identity, becoming inward-focused and maintenance-oriented instead.

💡Identity Crisis

Father Mallon identifies an 'identity crisis' as the primary challenge facing the modern Church. He argues that the Church has forgotten its essential identity as a 'Missionary Church,' leading to a focus on maintenance rather than mission. This crisis is not just about practices but about understanding who we are as a Church. The interview discusses how rediscovering this identity can lead to a more vibrant, evangelistic community, as seen in the transformation efforts at St. Benedict Parish.

💡Great Commission

The 'Great Commission' is a biblical mandate from Jesus Christ to 'go and make disciples of all nations,' serving as the foundation for the Church's mission-oriented activities. Father Mallon references this directive to highlight the central task of disciple-making as the core of the Church's mission. The Great Commission is used to distinguish between the Church's current maintenance activities and the broader, more proactive role it should play in evangelization and discipleship.

💡Discipleship

Discipleship is a central theme in the interview and is defined as the process of forming followers of Jesus who have encountered Him personally and have chosen to follow Him. This concept goes beyond merely teaching about faith; it involves a deep personal relationship and commitment to living out the teachings of Jesus. Father Mallon emphasizes that true discipleship should lead individuals to become 'missionary disciples,' actively participating in the Church's mission to evangelize and transform lives.

💡Evangelization

Evangelization is the act of spreading the Gospel message and inviting others into a relationship with Jesus Christ. In the video, Father Mallon stresses the importance of evangelization as a precursor to discipleship. He argues that many churches focus on catechesis (religious teaching) without addressing the need for evangelization, which is about awakening a personal relationship with Jesus. The concept is linked to the broader mission of the Church to reach beyond its existing congregation and engage with the wider community.

💡Cultural Shift

Cultural Shift refers to the significant change in the Church's approach and mindset from maintenance to mission. Father Mallon discusses the necessity of this shift to create a church culture that prioritizes evangelization, discipleship, and outreach. This transformation involves redefining norms and practices within the parish to align with the Church's missionary identity. The interview highlights the use of tools like Alpha to facilitate encounters with Jesus, contributing to the cultural shift needed for a vibrant, mission-focused community.

💡Alpha Program

The Alpha Program is an evangelistic course mentioned by Father Mallon as a key tool used at St. Benedict Parish to introduce individuals to the Christian faith and foster a personal encounter with Jesus. It provides a welcoming environment for discussions about faith and spirituality, serving as a gateway for many to begin their journey of discipleship. The program exemplifies the practical implementation of the missionary focus discussed in the interview, highlighting its role in facilitating cultural change within the parish.

💡Lay Involvement

Lay Involvement refers to the active participation of laypeople (non-clergy members) in the Church's mission and ministry. Father Mallon emphasizes the importance of engaging lay members in various aspects of parish life to create a dynamic and mission-driven community. The interview highlights how St. Benedict Parish has successfully mobilized laypeople to take leadership roles, contributing to the parish's growth and vibrancy. This involvement is seen as a crucial element in transitioning from a maintenance-focused church to one centered on mission and evangelization.

💡Vision Casting

Vision Casting is the process of defining and communicating a compelling vision for the future that inspires and motivates a community. Father Mallon describes it as a key responsibility of church leaders, particularly pastors, to articulate a vision that aligns with the Church's missionary identity. In the interview, he shares how casting a clear vision at St. Benedict Parish helped galvanize the community around the mission of making disciples and transforming lives. This concept is central to the discussion of how parishes can navigate change and overcome resistance by focusing on their core mission.

Highlights

Father James Mallon discusses the importance of shifting from a maintenance-focused parish to a mission-focused one, emphasizing the need for a renewed model of parish life.

The book 'Divine Renovation: Bringing Your Parish from Maintenance to Mission' is a blend of 50% theology and 50% practical model, aiming to help parishes live out their mission more effectively.

Father Mallon shares his personal struggle with the lack of a renewed parish model, which led him to explore and implement changes at St. Benedict's parish.

The fundamental problem within the Church is identified as an identity crisis, where the Church has forgotten its missionary nature.

Father Mallon emphasizes that the Church doesn't just have a mission; it is mission, reflecting the core of its apostolic identity.

A key focus of the mission is to make disciples, not just to baptize and teach, as per the Great Commission.

Father Mallon highlights the need for parishes to be outward-focused, reaching the unchurched and not just serving those in the pews.

Father Mallon stresses that evangelization is complete when a person becomes a disciple, and further, a disciple must become a missionary.

Pope Francis's concept of a 'missionary disciple' is highlighted as central to the identity of every baptized Catholic.

The initial resistance to change in parishes is discussed, where people often desire a more dynamic Church but resist the personal changes required to achieve it.

Father Mallon recounts the challenges of inheriting a newly consolidated parish and the need to move beyond cosmetic changes to deep, mission-driven transformation.

The importance of a clear vision for parish renewal is emphasized, with the role of the pastor being crucial in casting this vision.

The use of Alpha as a primary evangelistic tool in St. Benedict's parish is cited as a key method for introducing people to Jesus and fostering personal encounters with Him.

Father Mallon explains that a cultural shift within the parish is necessary to make living the faith in a mission-focused way the norm.

Testimonies and personal stories are used within the parish to normalize the idea that Jesus changes lives, fostering a culture of evangelization.

Father Mallon describes the process of gaining momentum for change in the parish as more people come to know Jesus personally, leading to a critical mass of transformation.

Transcripts

Welcome! My name is Peter Herbeck. I'm  here from Renewal Ministries and I have got  

the great pleasure to be able to bring to you an  interview I've wanted to do for a long time with  

Father James Mallon. Father James is the pastor  of St. Benedict's parish in Halifax, Nova Scotia  

a very dynamic parish, I think, a new Pentecost,  new evangelization, kind of parish that really  

is living that call and Father is the author of  a book I think is very very important and the  

reason mainly we're doing this, called Divine Renovation: Bringing your parish from maintenance to mission.

Divine Renovation: Bringing your parish from maintenance to mission

Now this is the older cover behind us is going to be the  new cover.

but you know in this series of shows we're going to do, we're going to do five 15-minute programs

that are dealing with five key themes from the book that you put your finger on 

that you'd like to communicate that's really what I want to do is draw out of you what's in here for our listeners

and so I want to ask first, why did you write the book?

Well I think it really comes  out of my own passion as a parish priest  

I've been a parish priest for about 15 years, been a priest for 18 years, and just really struggling  

with the with the lack of a model of a renewed parish. You know we have a amazing theology but often,

to truly live out the faith, most Catholics  have to go to the movements to find

discipleship, authentic community, evangelization.

Often perishes our centres of, well, I hate to say, but often mediocrity and minimalism.

You know? In my own life, when I was young, when I first came alive in my faith,

I basically went to my parish to receive communion, that was about it. Everything else I found outside.

And I've always been haunted by that sense of: Why is it like this? It doesn't have to be this way. It shouldn't be this way.

And so for most of my ministry life I've been  

looking outwards, looking at other churches, trying to learn from other churches, implementing things,  

making my own set of mistakes, and I think I'm always convinced we need to have a theology and a model for everything you do.

often we  have great theology but no model and sometimes we have models that don't have a good theology

so you need both and the book basically is about 50% theology and 50% proposing a model

and right now, we're trying to live this out in my present parish,   St. Benedict Parish,

I don't think we're there yet,  we're the journey from maintenance to mission.

It's  amazing what God has done and it's incredibly exciting and it's just, I feel like I've got to pinch myself.   

But I'm still well aware  that we've got a ways to go. We're not perfect by far.  

We continue often to learn  by the mistakes we make

I think one of the reasons I'm so excited about it is I had the privilege of visiting your parish a couple of times actually.  

I was engaged in a parish mission there and I was,  I'm deeply impressed from how you've gone from  

point A to point B, from point B to point C. You've got a huge engagement of lay people up and down  

and this stuff is really happening. It's like  a real sign of hope and I know at the beginning of  

this series I know one things we want to touch on  was the the problem the fundamental issue of  

identity. Why don't you share with us what you think about it. I think there's a lot of evaluations that talk about different  

crises within the church and my own conviction  is that the number one crisis is an identity crisis  

because it's not simply about, you know,  best practices or what we should do.

What we do is always rooted in our sense of who we are, even  in the Ministry of Jesus, you know, the key turning  

points in his ministry both in his beginning of his public ministry the Transfiguration were  

moments where he had his identity affirmed you  know within his human nature so it's it's we  

I think the fundamental problem is an identity  crisis we've forgotten who we are. See we  

are a Missionary Church that's the original  meaning of apostolic we were a Missionary  

Church we don't we don't have a mission we  are mission it's not so much that the Church  

of Jesus Christ as a mission is that the mission  of Jesus Christ has a church we are missionary by  

nature but oftentimes if we look at what we do in  parishes we get the sense that well mission, that is, "to go"

because the word "missio" means to  go, is something that we might eventually  

get to at some point we we kind of know we're  supposed to do that but we might eventually get  

get to it so rather than be missionary often in  our parishes we become maintenance focused and  

that is that we're content to maintain the  flock and that sometimes our best parishes  

they're maintaining the flock in and that's no easy thing by the way to maintain the flock is a very challenging thing.

In a broad way it's part of  the church's evangelistic mission and the broad term  

how people understand that oftentimes is the  church's overall mission but there's something  

more precise when you talk about mission what you mean by that. Well it means I think you know going back  

to the Great Commission you know like how do we  how do we find out what's it all about what's  

the purpose and and this often will cut through a  lot of the conversations we have you know to have  

a clear purpose and someone once said that the main  thing is to keep the main thing the main thing but  

what is the main thing because in in the life of  a parish there can be so many things going on so  

much busyness so many requests for time and energy  and events and and with we've only got limited  

energy and time and the question is what is the  main thing are we so lost in busyness that we've  

forgotten the main thing? Well I believe we just  simply have to turn to the Great Commission and  

you see the Great Commission four tasks does the  task to "go", to "make", to "baptize", and to "teach" and  

as in with any sentence there's always a finite  verb which is the the grammatical center of any  

sentence and in with the Great Commission in  the original language the three of the verbs are  

participles so they're in a sense conditional on  the finite verb and so arguably one of these tasks  

to go make baptized and teach is the heart the  grammatical heart of the sentence and therefore I  

think the theological heart and it's it's the it's  the verb "to make" actually in the original language  

make disciples this is a word in Greek we don't  have one word in in in English or Latin but it's  

"make disciples" and so Jesus basically says, "go make  disciples and and baptize them and teach them"  

but what are we do if you look at what we do  we're often we've been good at "going" we're very good at  

"baptizing" we're good at sacraments and liturgy  and we're fairly good at "teaching" we have catechetical programs

but our frustrations in ministry  we get frustrated because in spite of our going or  

baptized or teaching we haven't made disciples  and what is what is a disciple a disciple who is  

one who has who has encountered the Lord who  has grown in that personal relationship with  

the Lord who's made a decision to follow him to  surrender his or her life to him and has within  

that person there's been awakened a hunger and a desire because if you don't care you don't care  

that you don't know and often we in the Church  will attack a problem of people not caring as if  

it's just a question of them not knowing so  we we say here, learn this information we we  

use catechesis where we should be we should be  seeking to evangelize people and so,

I really believe evangelization is complete when a  person has become a disciple but then the disciple  

must become an apostle it's not enough to make a  disciple decide the word disciple means someone  

who who learns but the disciple must become an  apostle or a missionary and as one of the terms  

Pope Francis uses is a missionary disciple. Yeah, he actually says he underlines that a number time  

he said I'm not just saying disciple you are a  missionary disciple and then he says at another  

point in Evangelii Gaudium he said, "I am a mission  in this world that's why I exist" and  

he said, every baptized Catholic every  Catholic has to come to the point where they're  

literally converted, have a new way of thinking  about themselves that I'm literally I exist for  

mission for the mission to the king And so this is the central this is the main thing that we've  

got to keep the main thing and that we've got to  make disciples and and then equip them bring them  

to maturity and while we're doing that equip them  for ministry so they can live out their mission  

within the world that's the primary task of the  church and that means not just reaching people  

in the pews it's not just you know you know Jesus  didn't say go and be disciples he said go and make  

disciples and he didn't say go make disciples  of people who are in your pews he said go to  

all nations and make disciples so we've got to  be outward focused to reach the unchurched and  

I think that when we realize that truly accept the  fact that this is our fundamental identity and if  

we live by that identity is going to change a  lot of things within a parish.

And how did you... when you first started at St. Benedict's what  was the condition of the church you were facing  

and how did you begin to implement this? Well I inherited a church that had gone through a great  

change because our previous bishop had seen the  need for for changing the infrastructure of our  

diocese and he had said in different regions okay  in this pair in this area we need one parish but  

he let the local parishes decide what they were  going to do with their buildings and so in this  

one particular area under the leadership of  the previous pastor there was a decision made  

to close and sell the three buildings which were  all like half a mile or a mile away from from each  

each other and to consolidate these route those  resources and and to have one church building and  

so that was a very difficult process and within  two and a half months of the new building being  

opened I arrived as pastor before the first  ministry year began and people were breathing this  

great sigh of relief they were thinking oh finally  all the change is over thanks thanks be to God no  

more change and I arrived and basically said well  guess what the change thus far has been cosmetic  

as difficult as it's been it's been cosmetic  because I said what's to stop the decline that  

has necessitated the amalgamation closure of our  churches from continuing to undermine what we're  

doing if all we do is come into this building  and do everything the same as we've always done before. 

Because we've been basically managing decline  we've been maintaining and it's declining and  

we have no way of turning the tide as it were  we just keep shrinking and creating different  

situations because of that steady decline. That's right and so it was basically about coming in  

and presenting a vision for something different  you know like naming the the challenge the issue  

without you know demoralizing people or without  blaming the people in the past because you know  

blaming put pointing the finger is never that  great and there's always three fingers pointing  

back at ourselves when you point one you know  the point is that I don't think anyone could have  

could have guessed about the kind of accelerated  social change in the last 50 years and the fact  

that in all and all avenues of life human beings  we generally stick to what we know we stick to the  

methods of the past we we we're like we go forward  to like when you row a boat you go forward while  

you're looking backwards and and it's the same  in the church and still to this day in spite of  

these massive changes for the most part in our  parishes we still employ pastoral models that are  

based on the presumptions of 50 years ago and  of course there's been a incredible paradigm  

shift if you if you will and so I came into the  parish trying to identify these things and try to  

awaken in a kind of a desire for within people to  change here's the challenge if you present if you  

ask people do you want a church this missionary  that's helped reverses yeah yes your father want  

to church this more loving want to churches more  welcoming more joyful that's able to reach out  

to the poor a church that is  evangelizing seeing life transformed everyone  

wants the change but no one wants to change and  as soon as you begin to change something that's  

when the proverbial fan will hit the wall because  people say well wait a minute wait a minute and  

that's where we have revealed to us one of the  primary problems with the church is that it rather  

than being a church that is outward focused and  exists for the sake of the other our communities  

are often revealed to be kind of social clubs  where all of this is really about me and it's  

for me and you know I love your idea of change but  but don't inconvenience me don't challenge me and  

and so whenever you clarify purpose when you if a  parish is able to regain its sense of identity and  

succeed in making the main thing the main thing  it will mean actually beginning to change things  

and and that will eventually introduce pushback. Yeah and I think from your experience and  

having spoken with you and just written the book  that the change didn't come just because you were  

so persuasive about change that the change agent  is bringing people to encounter Jesus in a new way.

Say a little bit more about that we just  got a few minutes left in this segment I think  

that's that's where identity comes from that's the key. There's no other other way this is how  

a disciple is made is by encountering Jesus, coming  into relationship with Jesus, and making a decision  

to be his his disciple. I think all of that needs  to happen and the more that that happens the more  

it grows within a parish and what we're really  looking for here we're going to talk about this  

I think in a later segment is is cultural shift  and that means redefining everything that you  

you presume to be the norm presume to be to be  not normative and in many of our churches that  

kind of way of living the faith is not normative  and so the first the first consequence of grasping  

this identity change means that that the the  primary task before is then is changing that  

culture and for many parishes means getting  a sense of momentum moving on this now that  

momentum is created when more and more people  come to know Jesus in a personal way and and we  

began to use testimonies presented in writing in  a person to begin to normalize the fact that yeah  

Jesus wants to change lives and this is what it's  all about and then you hit that critical mass of  

so many people and we've used the tool of Alpha  as our primary evangelistic tool and it's been an incredible blessing. 

Provide that place of encounter introduction to the person  of Jesus now a lot of the people who are listening  

this are hopefully pastors and people who are  involved in leading parishes and the like I just  

like to ask as we close this section when you  began did you have a real clear picture in mind  

you had the vision already and everything was  there and it was all clear or was it it was a  

real struggle for you to be able to lay hold of it  and to be willing to face the opposition how did  

it work for you when you began just on a personal level. Yeah I think it begins very much in in the  

heart of the pastor I mean as the primary role of  a leader I think is is the cast vision and vision  

is has been defined as a vision of the future that  produces passion in us. I think we're going to  

talk a bit more about the central role of vision  but if if you're going to lead something vision  

is about where we're going and it's going to be  something that makes you incredibly excited and  

passionate if you don't know where you're going if  you're not excited about it unfortunately you're  

probably not going to lead anything. And so really what comes together when you come to understand  

who you are when you find out your cen- Lay hold of your identity when you know who you are you're going  

to know about where you're supposed to go those  two things are really connected you can begin  

to evaluate what's a healthy parish what are  we supposed to look like we can only do that if we  

know where we're supposed to go and who we are and so  that's really the starting point that's where  

right now we'll build on this but anyway father  I think you've hit the nail on the head thanks