Google CEO on China vs US AI Race

Summary

Google CEO Sundar Pichai discusses AI's potential to drive economic growth and opportunity globally if governments take a pro-innovation approach. He believes open collaboration between the US and China is key. Pichai sees AI as a massive opportunity for India despite job displacement risks. He asserts Google is not behind competitors in AI, citing new models like Gemini. Pichai frames Google's work with governments as an enabler, not from a geopolitical stance. He aims to ground Google's AI ethics in universal human values.

Takeaways

• 😊 Pichai sees AI as a big opportunity for economic growth in Asia-Pacific if countries embrace innovation and invest in infrastructure and skilling
• 👨‍💻 Pichai believes AI can help expand access to services like healthcare and education in India's large population
• 🌏 Pichai says global consensus on AI regulation won't be easy but is necessary given AI will proliferate everywhere
• 🤝 Pichai welcomes U.S.-China dialogue on AI given need to develop frameworks for countries to coexist with widespread AI
• 🔬 Pichai is optimistic about AI's benefits but says we must work hard for good outcomes as with past technologies
• 🚀 Pichai says Google has been incorporating AI for years and he expects a 'golden age' of innovation ahead
• ☁️ Pichai sees Google Cloud partnerships with AI startups as pro-innovation by enabling new companies
• ⚖️ Pichai argues Google doesn't have 90% control given competition from social media and constant innovation
• 📈 Pichai views Google as a technology partner to 'like-minded' democratic governments aiming to modernize
• 😌 Pichai worries about meeting the moment with AI responsibility but is excited by the pace of innovation

Q & A

How does Pichai view the potential for AI growth in the Asia-Pacific region compared to past technologies?

Pichai believes AI presents an opportunity for Asia-Pacific countries to play an equal role in AI development from the start, unlike past technologies where Asia had to catch up. He sees it as the first time Asia can be as native to a new technology as the U.S.

What does Pichai believe governments should do to facilitate AI innovation in their countries?

Pichai says governments should have a pro-innovation mindset, embrace AI early on, ensure proper infrastructure to enable innovation, balance regulations to protect innovation and safety, and visibly implement AI projects to serve citizens and digitize services.

How does Pichai respond to concerns that AI could lead to massive job losses in India?

While acknowledging some job shifts, Pichai believes AI can also expand access and make many jobs easier. He emphasizes the need for workforce transition and skilling programs in India and globally to enable progress.

What is Pichai's view on China's progress in AI research and development?

Pichai states that China is making deep AI investments and has an impressive scale of AI research talent. He believes China will be at the forefront of AI globally.

What is Pichai's perspective on developing global consensus for AI regulation?

Pichai feels that since AI will spread globally, countries share incentives to solve for safety together. He sees frameworks needing to be built globally over time, but acknowledges it won't be easy.

How does Pichai respond to claims that Google is missing the AI wave compared to competitors?

Pichai points out that much of the underlying AI technology comes from Google, and highlights their work on next-gen models like Gemini. He expects a golden age of Google AI innovation ahead.

What concerns does Pichai have regarding the use of AI for content manipulation?

Pichai worries AI could lower barriers to creating synthetic content disconnected from reality. He emphasizes needing frameworks to tackle areas like content authentication and restrictions on synthetic media.

Why does Pichai disagree that Google's search dominance gives it too much power?

Pichai argues Google doesn't dominate all user information needs given factors like social media and new Generation Z habits. He also highlights constant innovation from tech requiring Google to keep improving search.

How does Pichai view Google's work with governments criticized by some employees?

Pichai sees Google as a partner to like-minded democratic governments, helping modernize infrastructure and services with technology. He doesn't view it through a geopolitical lens.

What fundamental values does Pichai believe should guide judgments of right and wrong with AI systems?

Pichai states judgments should be grounded in universal human rights and values. He says if systems reflect humanity's essence and enable human good, they will be headed the right way.

Outlines

00:00

😄 Discussing economic growth potential of AI in Asia Pacific and globally.

Pichai and the interviewer discuss the potential for AI to drive economic growth in Asia Pacific and globally over the next decade. Pichai talks about the opportunity for countries in Asia Pacific to be at the forefront of AI development and adoption from the start, rather than playing catch up. He emphasizes the need for a pro-innovation mindset, infrastructure, and government initiatives to facilitate AI innovation in countries across the region.

05:03

😊 Addressing opportunities and challenges of AI for jobs and labor markets including in India.

Pichai responds to a question about AI's impact on jobs and labor markets, especially in India. He acknowledges there will be some job displacement but is optimistic about AI enabling creation of new kinds of jobs and making existing jobs easier. He emphasizes the need for workforce transition and skilling programs to enable more inclusive outcomes.

10:04

🤔 Considering challenges of achieving global consensus on AI governance and regulation.

Pichai discusses the challenges of achieving global consensus on AI regulation but expresses optimism given ongoing government initiatives and dialogues. He advocates for developing frameworks for responsible and safe AI across countries. He also comments on the role of China and the need for cooperation on AI governance.

15:05

😯 Responding to criticisms and concerns about Google's approach to AI ethics, competitiveness and market power.

Pichai responds to criticisms about Google's approach to AI ethics, competitiveness vs competitors like OpenAI, and market dominance in search. He defends Google's commitments to open innovation, sharing of AI technology, and enabling startups through cloud. He argues Google has built its business for the current AI moment and is poised for future innovation.

20:05

🙂 Considering the role and responsibilities of Google in relation to governments, geopolitics, and democratic values.

Pichai discusses Google's view of itself as a partner to democratic governments worldwide to bring benefits of technologies like AI. He acknowledges concerns about projects like Nimbus but sees enabling digital infrastructure as core to Google's role. He states commitment to get high-stakes issues like elections right.

Keywords

💡Artificial Intelligence

Artificial intelligence (AI) refers to computer systems that can perform tasks normally requiring human intelligence, such as visual perception, speech recognition, and decision-making. In the video, AI is discussed extensively as a major technological development expected to drive economic growth and transform services and infrastructure globally in the coming years. Examples from the transcript include using AI to digitize government services, improve healthcare access, and enable scientific discoveries.

💡Economic Growth

Economic growth refers to the increase in production of goods and services in an economy. The video highlights AI as a key driver of future economic growth, especially in the Asia-Pacific region. For instance, the potential for countries like India to utilize AI to make progress in healthcare, agriculture, climate change etc. is discussed as a massive economic opportunity.

💡Regulation

Regulation refers to rules and directives imposed by authority to regulate conduct and activities. The video talks about the need for smart regulation of AI technology globally, balancing innovation and safety. Examples include regulating synthetic media content and collaborating between countries like US and China to develop frameworks for responsible AI.

💡Geopolitics

Geopolitics refers to the intersection of geography and politics, how geographical factors shape relations between countries. The video touches upon geopolitical aspects like Google's partnerships with governments worldwide, providing cloud and AI services, and the Taiwan-China chip supply chain risks.

💡Labor Market

The labor market refers to the supply and demand for labor in an economy. The video discusses the potential impacts of AI on the labor market, such as dislocation of low-level jobs but also creation of new kinds of work. An example given is how India needs to invest in skilling and workforce transition.

💡Technological Innovation

Technological innovation means introducing new or improved products, processes or ideas using technology. The interview emphasizes benefits of innovation through AI, need for pro-innovation policies, and Google's role in enabling innovation by companies and governments via its technology.

💡Synthetic Media

Synthetic media refers to artificial computer-generated video, audio, images etc. The video talks about the risks of synthetic media in spreading misinformation, especially around elections, and the need for regulations.

💡Semiconductors

Semiconductors are silicon chips that power technology devices. The video references reliance of US tech industry, including Google, on Taiwan for semiconductors and the supply chain risks if geopolitical tensions rise.

💡Cloud Computing

Cloud computing provides on-demand services, storage and computing power over the internet. Google Cloud is discussed as enabling its AI and other technologies for governments and companies, allowing innovation.

💡Multinational Technology Companies

The video is focused on major technology companies like Google, Microsoft, Amazon etc operating globally. It discusses their investments in AI, partnerships with governments, policy positions and role in technological innovation.

Highlights

AI has potential to drive major economic growth in Asia-Pacific region

Asia-Pacific can develop AI technologies alongside rather than playing catch-up

India has massive AI opportunities but must invest in skilling workforce for job transitions

Global cooperation critical for AI safety given technologies will proliferate worldwide

US and China dialogue on AI regulation is integral for long-term progress

Open source innovations will continue playing critical role in driving AI progress

Next major elections could have 1/3 of world population participating, raising misinformation concerns

China making deep investments and has astounding scale of AI research talent

Hard to predict if world heading toward separate internets or if information wants to flow freely

Optimistic about harnessing AI to human benefit as with previous technologies, but hard work required

Google built for current AI moment with innovations like Gemini to come

Facts don't support argument Google has 90% control given dynamic innovation in tech

Google proud to modernize infrastructure for governments worldwide as critical tech partner

Taiwan semiconductors a supply chain dependency for US tech industry

AI progress must be grounded in fundamental human rights and values

Transcripts

So you've got the presidents of the two biggest economies in the world right

here in big tech's backyard. And everybody has questions about A.I..

How much do you think is going to drive economic growth in the Asia-Pacific

region and really the world? Let's say over the next decade?

That's a big question. It's a good, good Walmart.

I think the obviously rightfully I think the excitement around A.I.

is is well-founded. I'm glad it's a big topic.

Let me start with the Asia-Pacific question.

One of the things that excites me is if you're in a region unlike the past

technologies. Take the PC revolution yet in some ways

play catch up. Mobile was the first transition, I

think, in Asia. You know, you almost co-developed it.

I look at Android. It wouldn't have happened without all

the work we did in Asia. Our partners in Asia be with Samsung or

HTC, in Taiwan and so on. But I think you started leapfrogging and

you need to play catch up with legacy. I think I takes it the next step

further. I think it's the first technology.

I think you're all in a real position to be right right there from the start and

have a seat as this technology develops. So I think that has profound

implications. You know, you all can be as a native, as

as what's happening in the US and so on. So I think in that way, you know, it's a

it's going to have a big impact. I think the way you do that, though, is

by, as you know, Apex countries. I would say you have to have a

pro-innovation mindset. You have to embrace it at the start.

Make sure you have the right infrastructure in the country to

facilitate innovation. You're thinking about the right balance

regulation, both from an innovation and safety standpoint.

And then as government maybe lead the way.

What are the projects you can visibly do?

How do you use A.I. to digitize services and service

citizens better? I think if we lead the way and then

invest in skilling, etc., I think there's a real chance.

I think it could be more exciting. India, your native country, is now the

most populous country in the world. Do you see AI as a massive opportunity

for India, or could it lead to a massive dislocation given the number of lower

level coding customer services jobs based there?

I do think it's going to be a massive opportunity, you know, across India has

India has to make progress on many, many fundamental areas, Right.

Beat health care, agriculture, food security, climate change and so on.

So an air is going to help us make progress.

So it is a big opportunity. I think even on the labour market, you

know, a few things I would say. There's a study from M.I.T.

economist David Order that if you look at today, a vast majority of jobs that

exist today are in new specialities or categories that have come about since

1940. So in some ways this can be

counterintuitive. Over the last 20 years, we've all

worried about automation and, you know, it hasn't quite played out the way we

predicted it. Having said that, I think your question

is important. I think for many jobs, it also has an

opportunity to played out in a much better way.

It make the jobs easier to do. Like, you know, if you can imagine how

do you have radiologists to cover India's breadth of population?

I can actually help expand access. But finally, there are a category of

jobs where there will be a shift. And I think that's where the only way to

make progress. No one can do it alone.

You have to invest in the hard work of skilling and workforce transition.

That's true for India. That's true for every country in the

world, I think. You've met with President Biden on AI in

Washington, Prime Minister Sunak on AI in London.

How do we get to global consensus on smart AI regulation?

It's not going to be easy, but. But I would start from the premise that

I will proliferate. So this is not the inherent nature of

software. Advances will get out to all countries.

And so it is naturally the kind of technology.

I don't think there is any unilateral safety to be had.

We all have a shared incentive to solve for safety.

You know, you could have a go wrong in one country that will impact every other

country. So in some ways it's like climate change

on the planet. We all share a planet.

I think that's true for A.I.. So now that you know that that will be

true, I think you have to start building the frameworks globally to make

progress. I've seen encouraging progress when the

G7 happened in Hiroshima. I think it was a good start.

You've seen more progress. The UK summit last week, the

administration here, the White House has been leading the way as well.

And I saw good encouraging announcements even yesterday for U.S.

and China to start having a dialogue on A.I..

Well, that was my next question. Should Chinese regulators be part of

this conversation on AI regulation? I you know, my sense is there is no way

you make progress over the long term without, you know, China and the US

deeply talking to each other on something like A.I..

So I think that has got to be an integral part of how you make progress.

So I think I'm glad to see it. And, you know, we have to lay the

foundations. The good thing is we are still in the

early days of the technology. So laying the foundations now will allow

us to work through the tough issues and build a common framework over time.

Google and other big tech companies have been criticized for pushing self-serving

regulation and pulling up the ladder behind them in a way that will stifle

A.I. innovation among startups.

How do you respond to that? Quite the opposite.

I mean, pretty much on most areas we have worked on.

We have deeply supported open innovation.

You know, if you look at things like Android or Chrome, you know, these are

all big open source projects. Most of the current AI revolution is

based on work, which we published as a company and shared with the world.

And I think as we move ahead, open source is going to play a critical role

in driving innovation forward. And I think we have to be careful not to

do regulation in a way that, you know, either harms open source technologies or

smaller companies. So I actually think we care about that.

You know, having said that, I think.

We are also being asked to contribute for.

How would you tackle air safety? Right.

And so we have to think through issues like that.

I don't see this as being at odds with each other.

For example, next year, about two and a half billion people around the world

would participate in an election. Right.

The biggest election in history is going to be happening in India.

That's right. And, you know, many more countries

around the world, including the US, so maybe almost one in three people in the

world may participate in the electoral process next year.

So how do you think about, you know, generally way I, you know, casting

misinformation there? You know, these are real problems.

So we are thinking through areas like that.

But I think that that is not the that shouldn't hinder innovation because of

the opportunity opportunity we talked about earlier.

So we you know, we we think about this framework as being bold and responsible

at the same time. And I think it's important to do both.

And I think that's true for governments as well.

We've already seen, you know, as it pertains to India, 3D generated

holograms of Prime Minister Modi, generated voice and voice and songs.

How do you think AI and obviously the US presidential election coming up as well?

How do you think A.I. is going to further test election

integrity? I think, you know, over time it's going

to lower the barrier for creating, you know, artificial information which may

or may not matter what's happening in the real world.

Right. And that barrier will come down.

So in this cat and mouse game, how do we amp up our defenses against that?

We are in early stages, right? You know, we were one of the first

companies to announce a watermarking technology for image generation.

It's called S.A.T., done by DeepMind, and we are providing API access to it.

But all of us need to tackle it. These are areas where regulation will

have to play a role, right? And then governments will have to, over

time, pass regulations about what is okay for, you know, some of this

synthetic content. And so which is why I think you have to

think about it, you know, together. OpenAI CEO Sam Altman has said

repeatedly he wants to know more about what's happening with AI in China.

What do you know and what do you not know about where China is on AI?

Look, I think they're making. From what I can tell, they're making

deep investments in A.I.. The scale of A.I.

research talent in China is just simply astounding to see.

So I think, you know, in some ways, this question, China is going to be at the

forefront of A.I. And, you know, I think that's a given.

And so the question is, how do we work over time both for, you know, other

countries to make sure you're making progress in A.I.

And over time, how do we develop the frameworks where, you know, countries

can coexist peacefully in a world in which they will be, you know,

everywhere? You know, President Biden actually just

said he doesn't see the US decoupling with China, but the world does seem to

be on a path to two separate Internets. Do we continue in that direction and

what does that mean? It's tough to see things go through in

phases. I think we are definitely in a phase

where there are more forces pulling it apart.

But, you know, inherently these technologies also facilitate easy

exchange of information. So I think there are countervailing

forces as well. So I think it's tough to predict.

I do think information wants to flow freely by nature.

So, you know, my hope is over time, you know, things to come back again.

Could I or cloud some of these newer businesses that Google has been

building? Could that be a path back into China for

Google? You know, today we you know, our

presence in China is limited, limited. And we are definitely focused on we we

deeply partner with governments around the world.

In fact, one of the big opportunities we have with cloud and AI is many

governments are working and they are thinking about how to incorporate A.I.

to transform their services to their citizens, improve their infrastructure,

etc.. So it's an area where we really focus

on, but not mostly because of China. Now, the conversation around A.I.

is super polarized. Either we're headed toward human

extinction and the robot collapse, or we're all going to have superpowers.

Which one is it? You know, I am I'm optimistic, Right.

I think as humanity, we have harnessed every technology to our benefits, you

know, and more than any other technology have seen us be worried about it at its

earliest stages. So in some ways, that gives me hope.

I do think we have to be very optimistic because it can really drive progress,

you know, at a fundamental level, beat scientific discovery like we are seeing

with Alpha fold at Google. So I think there's a lot of optimism to

be had. And I think we have to work hard to

harness it. But that is true of every technological

advance we've had before. It was true of the Industrial

Revolution. I think we can learn from those things,

act earlier to work hard at making sure there's a better outcome.

So I'm optimistic. Yeah.

You pivoted Google to an AI first company in 2016, and yet there's still

this perception that Google is somehow missing the boat on AI.

Are you behind? Are you behind open?

I you know, look, I mean, credit to them

for I think Chad was a great product with a great product market fit.

But when I look at me, we have been incorporating AI in our products for a

long time. A lot of the underlying technology is

built from Google. We are building our next generation of

models with Gemini and I am extraordinarily excited at the

innovation coming ahead. If anything, I look ahead, I think we

built the company for this moment. I expect it to be a golden age of

innovation ahead and can't wait to bring all the innovations to more people.

So tell us more about Gemini. Give us a glimpse.

I mean, this is something that's been touted as a magic ingredient for search.

What have you seen and how transformative.

Look, I be. I think all of us are trying to push the

state of the art of gender. The way is our goal with Jim and I, you

know, is is to put out a state of the art model, right?

That's where we would start with Gemini 1.2 and then add more innovations.

You know, truly make the multimodal bring in features like memory and

planning in and so on. But we are focused on getting it out.

You know, I view Gemini as a series of models.

We have focused on getting Gemini 1.2 out as soon as possible, make sure it's

competitive state of the art and build from there on.

Google just invested $2 billion in anthropic.

Microsoft, of course, has billions in openai.

I recently sat down with Lina Khan, who's the chair of the U.S.

Federal Trade Commission, and she said they're hearing concerns that big tech

companies are extending their power by investing not just money, but also

sharing their clouds with these AI startups.

Is that fair? Can innovators succeed and startup

succeed without allying themselves with big tech?

Well, you know, I mean, it all depends on the details.

And, you know, in these deals, when we deal with these companies, we are

enabling them because of our cloud technology.

And we you know, we don't have a controlling stake in any of these

companies. So they are independent companies

in which we are a technology provider. Right.

And I think I actually make the argument the opposite way.

If you just look at the last year, look at all the new names we are talking

about. To me, it shows that we are in an

incredibly dynamic moment again. You know, and so and and, yes, we I

think we we have to play a role in enabling the next generation of

companies, which is what cloud does. And cloud allows us to take the same

technology that Google is built on and actually share it with everyone else.

So I think if anything, it's pro-innovation.

And so I think there's a lot of good things about it.

You've been spending some time in Washington lately.

There are a couple of big trials underway.

The US Justice Department, for one, is trying to prove that Google is a

monopoly, a search monopoly. Google does dominate 90% of search,

which is 90% of like how we see and experience the world.

It's hard to get information and not use Google.

Why should any one company have that much power?

You know, I genuinely think we don't have that position.

We are not 90% of users information needs.

You know, I look at my kids generation on their phone.

They have access to the entire world's information at their fingertips.

They're getting a lot of their information from social media.

They get to go to wherever they want. And so, you know, those are not people

who don't always go to a general search engine for information.

And that plays out in the ads market, too.

I think we've just talked about when I look at how much tech is constantly

innovating and we have to work harder every year.

You know, there's irony in your question of R&D in this position and R&D behind

me. I mean, so both can be true at the same

time. So it's clearly a dynamic moment.

And, you know, I'm glad we get a chance to make that case.

And so I think I think the facts would speak for themselves.

Some of Google's work with governments around the world has gotten pushback

from your own employees. Obviously, we've got the world watching

the Israel-Hamas war right now. You've got a contract project Nimbus,

whereby Google provides cloud and AI services along with Amazon's US to the

Israeli military and government. Can you give us an update on that

project? It's very much in line with what I said

earlier. We work with governments around the

world. You know, we think it's our

responsibility as an important technology.

How do you use it to modernize your country's infrastructure and your

services project? Nimbus.

This was a RFP from Israel's Ministry of Finance to modernize their digital

infrastructure, and that's the project. And we are proud to be doing Project

Nimbus like we do with many governments around the world.

There was, you know, Russia, Ukraine, and now we've got Israel and Hamas.

How do you think about wielding Google's geopolitical power in a time of

conflict? Look, I mean, I view this as a partner

to, you know, like minded governments which share democratic values around the

world. I think we can be a critical technology

partner. I think we want to participate in

important issues that affect these countries, beats killing and educating

their workforce by bringing access to more knowledge and information.

And that's the role. And we're helping them build out their

digital infrastructure, including A.I.. And I think that's the role.

You know, we don't see it in the geopolitical context.

We see it in an enabling context. We want to be partners to these

companies. And, you know, and there are times

information plays an important role in these moments, and we want to get those

moments right. And so that's the way I think about it.

Mm. Google in so much.

Not every government is like minded, right.

Google and so much of U.S. tech relies on Taiwan for chips.

If tensions escalate between Taiwan and China, how big a threat is that to the

US tech industry? And is enough being done to mitigate

that risk? This goes beyond Google.

I think in today's world, a lot of the semiconductor manufacturing technology,

you know, comes out of the innovation from Taiwan.

And, you know, that's a dependency which exists.

And so, you know, but this is not a unique Google thing.

And, you know, my sense is it'll be that way for a long time to come.

Eight years ago, you changed Google's motto.

Google changed its motto from Don't be evil to do the right thing.

What does it mean to do the right thing in an AI powered world?

Hopefully I will also help us, you know, give inputs to it.

But look, I think it has to be grounded in

the fundamental values of humanity, human rights and universal human values

we all agree on has got to be the foundation for it.

And, you know, you have to build it up from there.

And there'll be a lot of debate about it.

But, you know, that's the foundational thing I would go back to.

And, you know, as long as I reflects the essence of what's good about enabling,

good about humanity, I think will be will be okay.

Everyone likes to ask you what keeps you up at night?

And I'm curious right now, this year. What do you worry about?

You know. But look, I am excited because it's an

extraordinary moment of innovation. You know, when I look at the pace of

activity, you know, even at Google, it reminds me of Google's earliest days.

So so there's a lot of energy I get from that, you know, innovation because, you

know, it plays out and will drive benefits in the world.

I do worry about many things making sure we are meeting the moment and moving

fast as a company to. Making sure to the election question We

talked about getting it right and the responsibility to do so.

So it's a it's a balance of all of that. All right.

Sundar Pichai, CEO of Google, thank you for spending your time with us.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.