Curriculum - Design a Photo App for the Blind
Summary
TLDRIn this mock product manager interview, Eliza discusses designing a family photo-sharing app inclusive of visually impaired members. She emphasizes the importance of user engagement for both elderly and younger family members, suggesting features like audio memos, voice commands, and progress indicators to ensure the app is accessible and engaging. The conversation highlights empathy in product design and the need for a strong feedback loop to measure success through utilization and satisfaction.
Takeaways
- 😀 The interview is a mock PM interview with Eliza La Joy, a product manager with experience in ed tech startups and currently at Stanford Business School.
- 👥 The task is to design a family-wide photo-sharing app with consideration for a vision-impaired family member, possibly an elderly grandparent.
- 🏠 The family in question is a small family located in the United States, with varying degrees of interaction among members.
- 👓 The vision-impaired person is characterized as having a full, lifelong impairment and is likely an elderly member of the family.
- 🤔 The interviewee considers different user personas based on the level of involvement and interaction the elderly person has with the family.
- 📱 The app aims to make the vision-impaired person feel involved and present in the family's day-to-day life and major events.
- 🔍 The design process involves considering logistics, the experience of using the app for the elderly, and how they can engage back with the family.
- 🎙️ The app could utilize voice commands, audio memos, and sound clips to enhance the photo-sharing experience for the vision-impaired user.
- 👶 For younger family members, the app should be easy to use and integrate with existing social media platforms to encourage regular content sharing.
- 🔗 A feedback loop is crucial to ensure that younger family members are aware of the elderly user's engagement and to address any difficulties they may have.
- 📈 Success metrics for the app would focus on sustained engagement from both the elderly user and the younger family members who provide content.
Q & A
What is the main challenge the product manager is trying to address with the family-wide photo sharing app?
-The main challenge is designing a photo sharing app that is inclusive and accessible for a family member who is vision impaired, ensuring they can actively participate and feel included in the family's shared experiences.
What is Eliza's background, and how does it relate to the product manager role?
-Eliza has a background in working with ed tech startups, including being a product manager and leading a team at Mentor Collective. This experience in product management and understanding user needs is directly relevant to the role of a product manager.
What are the three different user personas considered for the family-wide photo sharing app?
-The three user personas are: 1) a grandparent with day-to-day involvement in the family's life, 2) a grandparent with periodic in-person interactions during holidays or special events, and 3) a grandparent who is geographically distant or unable to meet the family in person due to various reasons such as the pandemic.
How does the interviewee suggest making the app accessible for a vision-impaired elderly person?
-The interviewee suggests focusing on auditory aspects, such as voice commands, audio feedback, and sound clips accompanying photos to create a more engaging and accessible experience for a vision-impaired user.
What is the importance of the younger family members in the context of this app?
-The younger family members are crucial as they are likely to be the ones uploading and sharing photos, as well as potentially being the decision-makers when it comes to choosing and using the app for the elderly family member.
What are some of the logistical considerations for the app to be user-friendly for a vision-impaired person?
-Logistical considerations include setting up the app with ease, using voice commands, and organizing a simple workflow that allows the elderly user to quickly access and engage with the shared photos and moments.
How can the app enrich the experience of the elderly user beyond just viewing photos?
-The app can enrich the experience by incorporating voice memos recorded during significant moments, casual ambient sound clips from everyday life, and allowing the elderly user to react and engage with the content through verbal comments or audio emojis.
What are some potential success metrics for the app?
-Success metrics could include the frequency of use by both the elderly and younger users, the satisfaction level of the elderly user, and whether the app is being used consistently over time, especially around key family milestones.
How can the app ensure a two-way engagement between the elderly user and the rest of the family?
-The app can ensure two-way engagement by allowing the elderly user to respond to shared content with verbal reactions, and by providing feedback to the younger users about the elderly user's engagement and interactions within the app.
What is the significance of integrating the app with existing social media platforms?
-Integrating the app with existing social media platforms can help mitigate the risk of insufficient content being shared within the app by allowing users to easily share content from other platforms, thus ensuring there is always something for the elderly user to engage with.
How does the interviewee reflect on their own performance during the mock interview?
-The interviewee reflects that they may have focused more on the elderly user persona and could have balanced the discussion more by considering the younger user persona as well. They also acknowledge the importance of summarizing key points during the discussion to ensure clarity.
Outlines
🤔 Introduction to Designing an Inclusive Photo Sharing App
Eliza, a product manager with experience in ed tech startups, discusses the challenge of designing a family-wide photo sharing app that is inclusive of a vision-impaired family member. She emphasizes the importance of understanding the family dynamics, the extent of the vision impairment, and the role of the vision-impaired individual within the family. The conversation highlights the need to create an app that fosters involvement and connection, regardless of the frequency of in-person interactions.
👵 Considering the Elderly and Vision-Impaired User Experience
The discussion delves into three distinct user scenarios: daily involvement, periodic visits, and minimal in-person interaction due to distance or mobility issues. Eliza chooses to focus on the third scenario, where the elderly vision-impaired person is most separated from the family. The goal is to make the elderly person feel as involved and present as possible, using the app to share life moments and maintain emotional connections.
📸 Envisioning the Photo Sharing Experience for the Visually Impaired
Eliza outlines the importance of the elderly vision-impaired person's ability to share their own experiences and enjoy family photos. She suggests using sound clips to accompany images, capturing both momentous occasions and everyday moments, to enrich the user's experience. The aim is to create an app that allows the elderly user to feel included and engaged with their family's life events.
🔊 Leveraging Sound to Enhance Visual Content
The conversation explores the use of sound to make the photo sharing experience more personal and engaging for the vision-impaired user. Ideas include voice memos recorded during significant moments and ambient sound clips to provide a sense of presence in everyday situations. The goal is to create an auditory experience that complements the visual content and allows the user to feel connected to their family's activities.
👶 Catering to Younger Users to Ensure Content Flow
Eliza considers the perspective of younger family members who will be the primary content contributors to the app. She suggests providing a user-friendly interface with voice commands and audio cues to facilitate easy sharing of photos and sound clips. Additionally, a progress indicator is proposed to show how the elderly user is engaging with the content, creating a feedback loop to ensure a smooth user experience for all family members.
🔄 Fostering Two-Way Interaction Through Audio Responses
The discussion moves to how the elderly user can actively participate in the app by reacting to shared content. Eliza proposes the use of verbal comments, automatic recording of real-time reactions, and audio emojis as ways for the elderly user to express their feelings and engage in a two-way conversation with their family members.
📈 Measuring Success Through User Engagement and Satisfaction
Eliza concludes by emphasizing the importance of measuring success through utilization and satisfaction of both the elderly user and the younger family members who contribute content. She suggests monitoring how often the elderly user engages with the app and how frequently younger users share content, ensuring that the app remains a valuable tool for maintaining family connections.
🌟 Reflecting on the Interview and Identifying Areas for Improvement
In the final part of the script, Eliza reflects on her performance, acknowledging a tendency to focus deeply on certain aspects while potentially neglecting others. She notes the importance of balancing the needs and experiences of both the elderly vision-impaired user and the younger family members who will be using the app. The interviewer provides feedback, commending Eliza's empathy and ability to consider the user's perspective, while also suggesting the inclusion of guardrail metrics for a more comprehensive approach.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Product Manager
💡Ed Tech Startups
💡Mentor Collective
💡Photo Sharing App
💡Visual Impairment
💡User Personas
💡Accessibility
💡Screen Readers
💡Braille Keyboards
💡Engagement
💡Utilization
Highlights
Designing a family-wide photo sharing app with a focus on inclusivity for vision-impaired family members.
Understanding the different user personas within the family, including the vision-impaired elderly and their level of interaction with the family.
Considering the elderly vision-impaired person's goal of feeling involved and present in the family's day-to-day life.
The importance of creating a feedback loop to ease anxieties of younger family members about the elderly relative's engagement with the app.
Utilizing voice commands and audio cues to make the app accessible and user-friendly for the vision-impaired.
Incorporating sound clips and voice memos to accompany photos, providing a richer auditory experience.
Designing the app to be simple and focused, avoiding the clutter and distractions found in typical social media platforms.
Ensuring the app allows the elderly user to participate actively, not just be a passive observer.
Using automatic recording of real-time reactions to allow the elderly user to engage more naturally.
Integrating the app with existing social media to prevent content duplication and increase the likelihood of use.
Creating a system where younger family members are nudged to capture and share casual moments, not just momentous occasions.
Allowing the elderly user to send verbal comments or reactions back to the family, fostering a two-way interaction.
The concept of 'audio emojis' as a novel way for the elderly user to express reactions and emotions.
Measuring success through utilization and satisfaction of both the elderly user and the younger family members who are the app's decision-makers.
Ensuring the app is easy to set up and use for the elderly, with a focus on auditory guidance and simplicity.
Reflecting on the balance between the needs of the elderly user and the younger family members who may be the primary content contributors.
The interviewee's self-reflection on the importance of empathy and understanding the user's perspective when designing the app.
Transcripts
how you might design a family-wide
photo sharing app if someone in the
family was
vision impaired
hey everyone i'm kevin way i'm a product
manager
at ibm data and ai today we have a mock
pm interview with eliza la joy and
before we jump into today's question
eliza can you tell us a little bit about
yourself
um so i am a sort of a startup person
through and through i've been working in
uh two different ed tech startups over
the last seven years uh most recently
as a as a product manager a couple years
as a solo pm
and then a couple of years building and
leading the team at a company called
mentor collective
which partners with colleges to help
them build mentorship programs that
balance sort of depth and breadth and
help the schools retain and graduate
their students
more effectively i've also done tons of
interviews on the interviewer
seat um we went through a big hiring
push at inventor collective and we
started to grow and so i thought a lot
about how to
assess pms and and and talk to them and
make sure that you're hiring some with
good
product sense um right now i'm at
stanford business school the gsb
um and uh it's starting to do some of my
own uh interviews for
uh internships here and um and yeah
that's me
awesome well we're super excited to have
you and today we're gonna be doing
a product sense type question so
for this question i'd like you to tell
me how you might design a
family-wide photo sharing app if someone
in the family
was vision impaired absolutely um a
really interesting question
i'd like to start then just by asking a
little bit for a little bit more context
if you're able to share it
um first a little more about the family
um do we know anything else about them
in terms of of the size and sort of
sprawl
like is this a small nuclear family a
larger
extended one do we know where they're
located is there anything else you can
tell me on that front
yeah so let's say that they're just a
small family in the united states
awesome
um so then just a couple other quick
things
um with regards to the visually impaired
person do we have more details about
their impairment is this full
visual impairment partial is it a
lifelong thing or something that's
recently
become part of their life let's say that
they were a
lifelong impaired person and it's a full
impairment makes sense
and my last question um this this person
the visually impaired person are do we
know if they're elderly like a
grandparent
type member of the family or or a
younger member
i'll leave it up to you okay okay that's
helpful
all right do you mind kevin if i take
just one minute i'm going to take about
30 seconds to take down a few notes
yeah go ahead cool thanks
cool so um since you you left it up to
me
about um sort of age uh range for
for the user in question i'm gonna think
about this from the perspective of an
elderly family member
maybe a grandparent um since i suspected
that's a pretty common angle
for this um and i think it's something
that i can
we can really make a difference in the
experience of that
that family arrangement and all of us
will experience that you know that
that role or you know some role of being
an elderly user and so i think that
makes sense to consider
so first i'm just going to think a
little bit more though about what are
the different
users that we might think about when
building this photo sharing
app um it's an interesting one because
i'm thinking about the visually impaired
elderly user the second sort of
secondary or other users are important
here like i think often with
um a tool that's helping grandparents we
might be actually sort of selling or
targeting
uh their children or their grandchildren
who might be more sort of receptive to
new technology or just you know looking
for those
even if the the grandparent might be the
one actually using a lot of that
technology so i really want to keep
the sort of web of users in mind here
it's almost like a b to b to c
like uh you know product to the to the
uh younger users to the older users
um so i think i have kind of three
different
ways like ways to think about these
users that we maybe could pick from
um the first and they're all kind of
defined by like the involvement that the
elderly user might have with the rest of
the family unit
so i know that often you know there's
one case where the grandparent
uh might be involved in the day-to-day
life of the rest of the family this
might be a grandparent who's raising
their grandchildren or someone who's
living in a multi-generational
household or is otherwise very involved
in the day-to-day activities with the
rest of the family maybe bringing that
grandchildren to school you know
attending different life events and
everyone's really participating in each
other's lives
in person um a second case might be kind
of
uh they're not there the engagement is
not happening all the time but it might
be an elderly
person or grandparent who comes to visit
periodically or there's like regular
in-person
touch points between these different
parts of the family um
and that may be kind of the cornerstones
around which these people are engaging
with each other like a holiday a
birthday
things like this but in between those
they don't see each other and that's
where
something like a photo sharing app could
be particularly important
um and then the third of the three that
occurs to me
is a case um that's sort of familiar to
my own heart and i think to a lot of
people right now
which is where the grandparent um and
the family
the rest of the family are not able to
see each other very much
or at all um either because of mobility
uh
challenges or just distance or pandemics
um you know whatever it is that makes it
difficult for people to make it to each
other in real life
um so there's really very little or no
in-person interactions between the
elderly in this case the
elderly visually impaired person and
their close family members which is a
obviously a really
tough i think situation for a lot of
families um
so i'm thinking about these three sort
of um you know the first case again
being
uh day-to-day involvement like the
everybody's in each other's lives very
actively
the second case there's like a middle
ground there's some active in-person
involvement
um and otherwise there's distance and
then the third case is the most separate
um where the the grandparent or other
you know elderly users is further away
and not able to to be there in person
with their loved ones
um do those do those user groups make
sense
um so these sound kind of like scenarios
where
depending on how much interaction these
users have amongst each other
and um how would you characterize
the goal of the elderly person that
we're designing for
yeah so i think it depends on which of
those uh sort of like
user personas i choose um i think
across all of them though my hypothesis
and so i'm likely going to just to
choose one of those and zero in a little
bit more but i think across all of them
i would hypothesize that the goal of the
of the grandparent as well as other
families to be as involved with each
other as possible to sort of
feel present to be aware of both the big
moments and the milestones as well as
sort of the minutia
and the day-to-day of of those people's
uh
lives and i think that's not only to
feel involved and to feel that
emotional connection but maybe also to
uh to share it with your friends if
you're in for example a retirement
community
um to sort of share that and to to tell
your friends about what your
you know your grandchildren are doing or
things like this so just really having
not only an
enjoyment for yourself but access that
information um
to share it and to show it off and to
kind of make it active part of your own
of your own life yeah i like that so it
sounds like
we're we want to target it doesn't
really matter if the elderly person has
you know only holiday touch points or if
they're only
able to see the their family members or
maybe not so often due to the pandemic
it doesn't really matter what sort of
level of
internet interaction they have there but
it sounds like we want to
take those people and create an
experience
where they can be as involved with the
family as possible
exactly and and if you're up for it you
know i'd love to focus in
on the the third sort of persona that i
touched on which is the most
separate folks i think that's where the
biggest gap
lies and i think right now in the world
that group is growing like it grew
exponentially in the last six months
um it probably isn't going that's not
going to change anytime soon so i'd
really like to focus in
um on that specific segment though i
think in doing that will benefit
groups one and two hopefully as well
yeah let's focus on them
cool um so thinking then okay so
thinking that a little bit more to your
question about like what
are sort of like the use cases or things
that that you know persona
persona family unit um might have
uh and i'm just gonna think about that
for a second okay
okay so a couple different pieces come
to mind
um i actually think yeah so so one
common use that this
that this elderly user and i'm going to
think about it first from their
perspective though again i don't want to
forget
about their about their relatives who
are really important here
but i think the first piece is the
elderly user might want to share
pictures of themselves and their world
with their family so reporting on like
what my life is like right now you know
what
what cool things am i up to or maybe
even like what am i worried about or
anxious about especially if this is
someone who's in
uh who's been kind of cut off from their
family um they might want to you know
ask questions or get help or or sort of
you know get advocacy from a younger
relative who might be able to
help assuage any you know fears or
concerns that they might have about
their care
um about you know what's going on in
their in their space i know that's a
concern i've heard from
um from from elderly folks um that i've
spoken with
in my own life um a sort of lighter
lighter weight use case um but i think
equally pervasive if not more so
is just enjoying and i alluded to this
like enjoying pictures of your family
and sort of feeling and understanding
what's happening in the lives of people
that you're not seeing every day in
person i think that's a really huge one
um it's like it's just it enriches it
enriches you know one's life and it
gives you important information and
allows you to check in on people
um who you care about and whom you love
in a way that
that um that maybe talking on the phone
doesn't do or the way they talk on the
phone is limited um and the lesson
that's like sort of taking in
information
um from the family and then the third is
another piece i kind of touched on
before which is like
sharing those pictures with others so if
i'm a grandparent i might want to show
my friends
you know if i have a spouse or partner
living with me maybe they're you know
these are also their grandchildren or
or you know they they care about these
folks as well so i might want to sort of
show off and involve
people that are around me in person in
these photos so that's an important
piece to consider
as well um so to kind of recap like
three you know focuses that i'm
considering here there's one that is
sharing pictures of myself and my world
back with
my my family my younger family maybe um
that could be important the second is
sharing pictures of that family
back with me and enjoying those pictures
myself and and feeling like i'm part of
their world
and then the third really is um sharing
those pictures of my family with others
that i do have in-person access to and
really enjoying
enjoying that and again um you know as a
visually impaired person i don't want to
be impeded or marginalized
or feel like a second class user in the
way that i'm enjoying those things
you know this is incredibly important
stuff and very basic and this is the
family that presumably i built and so i
really want to feel
like i'm able to be in the center of it
not that i've been nudged off to the
side
um so i think and that's really how
i would how i would think about it and
as i think about
you know what what kind of like a vision
for that product experience
might be um i think that what i what i'm
getting at is like
we want everybody to kind of feel
centered in the tool
that they're that nobody is marginalized
and nobody has forgotten but we really
want this to be designed
first and foremost with this elderly
vision impaired user in mind
um and to to basically make it feel like
they're
there and present so if i were to like
try and summarize it it's like bringing
your loved ones into the same room
with you how can we make it feel that
way and so everybody
is present together and when we think
about the younger family members that's
exactly what we want for them
as well as to to really have your um you
know elderly relative that you can't be
there in person with
how can we bring them into the room
using this using this app so that's kind
of the
like the headline that i'd like to keep
in mind when thinking about you know the
features that we might want to want to
prioritize here
um but i want to pause there kevin does
that all make sense do you have you know
thoughts or
questions yeah so this makes sense i
think this is a good vision to start
with
and i'm curious how we are going to
adopt this to someone who has this
impairment
yeah i think a couple of pieces are
important so like i mentioned i think so
you are saying like how will we get it
to them
or how is someone who has this
impairment use this i feel like someone
with
without the impairment they would be
able to enjoy pictures of their family
share pictures and report on what
they're up to
in ways that you and i may use this app
but if if there's this impairment we
might have to
change the maybe either the software or
the hardware in some ways and i'm
curious how you might do that
definitely yeah so this is really
interesting um because of course there
is technology that exists
to help you know blind folks interact
with with computers and then you know
particularly in the form of screen
readers
um as well as braille keyboards and
things like this so we definitely want
to design
something that is um compatible with
those
technologies but thinking about my
product vision i don't think that's
enough
um to maybe to your point like we really
want to center it
a little bit more um i think there are a
couple of different pieces
um and you're totally right like i think
um we think about the solutions that
exist right now
whether it be like you know going on
facebook and following your family
members on social media you know
that's one way that uh that might
excited folks might engage
maybe it's using like shutterfly or an
app or a tool that already exists
um bless you um or or maybe
um it's uh like getting um
you know if for a for a sighted person
you might get mailed
photographs and lots of older people
have photographs taped up but none of
those solutions
work well for our elderly vision
impaired user even if they have a screen
reader
social media site is extremely cluttered
and unfocused like there's a ton going
on there and that's distracting if
you're just trying to look at pictures
of your loved ones
and you know screen reader describes
what's happening on the screen it you
know it does not
give you visceral interactions and
engagement
in a sense of what's happening in your
loved one's lives i think that's that's
pretty
um weak and we should improve on that
yeah so maybe we can um
pick one of these that we want to focus
on so either
the elderly person reporting or them
being able to enjoy the pictures
or sharing with others and talk about
how we might turn this solution into one
that
someone with a vision impairment can
also enjoy definitely yeah so i'd love
to focus on the enjoying of the pictures
piece um i think that that one
is kind of at the emotional core of this
whole experience and that vision is sort
of viscerally feeling like
um like you're present in the room with
your family
uh on both ends of of that um
and so then again returning to you know
if we're thinking about the the tools
that already exist
to to do this like it's difficult to
uh easily like cut to the chase like if
you're using social media
um that's not so good because you have a
million other things distracting you
if you're navigating through with a
screen reader even you're not going to
be able to focus in
on um you know the information from your
family
obviously the experience of processing
the visual is not
happening in the same way um
and it's and there's no like like
first-hand traces
of your loved ones in the way that if
you see a picture of them or you hear
their voice on the phone
um there are so i think i'd like to sort
of think about this
actually in sort of three chunks of ways
that i think we could
um kind of design an app to set this up
i think the first
chunk is logistics like getting the
user set up like how can an app be very
easy and simple and friendly to
someone with a visual impairment so that
we can just get them in the app and
easily
enjoying um and accessing images
or like artifacts from their loved ones
the second piece is experiencing
um those artifacts and i think we can
use uh
sound uh to a good effect here to make
it
more personal um using thing and i'll
dive into this in more depth in a second
um and then engaging so allowing them to
like respond
back and to sort of have a back and
forth with their loved ones
about those artifacts um so to dive a
little bit more into the first chunk on
the logistical
front um so i think we'd want to make it
really easy to
set things up um in the app
and to make it as auditory as we
possibly could
um so maybe we can allow the younger
family members
to do something like record an audio
welcome
to their to their relative that kind of
just like outlines here's what this is
like we're excited to
to share with you and just gives them a
very we could you know provide like
three bullets for that person to record
into the app and then they have a very
familiar welcome to listen to
when they come in um we might also want
to allow voice commands
um from the elderly user to
kind of say to the app what they're
trying to do um maybe if
we wanted to for example organize um
a workflow around like i maybe i want to
see all the pictures of kevin like i'm
looking to
to like catch up on what's going on in
kevin's life and maybe we could have a
workflow specific to people um and i
could just say that i'm looking to talk
to
to kevin um not to talk to kevin to
catch up with kevin in his life
um and i could express that verbally um
two other good workflows there might be
like
uh like events like maybe kevin's
graduation um is something that i might
want to
to see and maybe a third workflow could
be
places so like if i you know i know my
family often like travels to seattle
i might want to say you know show me you
know let's engage with the artifacts
from seattle there's different ways that
we could set up
that elderly user to very quickly get
into
uh the enjoyable parts of the experience
and to limit
logistical messing around if we could
does that logistical chunk make sense
yeah yeah that makes sense i'm curious
if you can talk a little bit about how
it might look from the
grandchildren or the the younger
person's point of view
definitely yeah this is an interesting
one thanks for asking um because they're
certainly really important here
i think we'd want to provide a similar
workflow
uh for the most part because we want to
create parallelism
so that people could understand what
each other was was seeing
um so for example you know that same set
of three workflows we might want to
allow
um to have like a visual cues as well on
the page you could see how like
search for kevin you know search for
seattle
etc as well as being able to access
those through
voice um something i might add though
for those other
members of the family is something like
a progress indicator
of what your elderly loved one is doing
within the app
so we want to make a very clear feedback
loop uh you know were they able to
access things successfully
um are they stuck what's going on and so
if we could maybe have like a like a
happy path that we would like them to
follow
um you know access you know their first
images uh
engage with their first images things
like this uh responded to
um and show a progression there and then
we could even
like ping the um relatives we don't
wanna drive them crazy but if we could
figure out what did they care about like
if i had posted
um you know new photos of my graduation
i might want to get a nudge that that my
grandfather had successfully accessed
those um and maybe if he hadn't i could
even get a nudge that's like hey papa
head stuck
um you know you know make sure that he's
that he's all set so i think if we can
create that feedback loop it's important
to
just ease any anxieties that those
younger users might have about their
loved one accessing things
comfortably and easily yeah that makes
sense and i like how you're calling out
some of the anxiety that the
younger folks might have if they're not
sure how the elderly
relative is reacting or how engaged they
are with the
app did you want to talk a little bit
about
some of the other interactions that the
elderly had
yeah definitely so thinking then about
kind of so we've talked about logistics
let's talk now about sort of like
experiencing the images of the artifacts
then we'll touch on engagement
sort of interaction in a second um so
experience so
yeah i think i think voice could go a
long way here
um you know images capture
capture you know one sense of a person
but why not make it possible to share
sound clips from important moments in
life so i think we could maybe do two
different
types of sound clips that could
accompany
a photo one could be a voice memo that's
recorded in the moment so like if we're
taking a picture of you at your
graduation
you know we can hear we can say hey you
know here we are kevin's graduation
like this is really cool cheese or you
know whatever it is silly things that
happen in the moment
when you're taking a picture and then
have that easily just maybe like a very
large
well-contrasted button um or or
something very clickable um and
accessible again via
a screen reader and via keyboard
navigation um which in my
very limited understanding uh is most
compatible with
uh technology that blind folks use on
the computer
um so voice memos is one piece and then
i think um
and that's like for the big moments
right it's like you know this is like
this movie when when
when um kevin's name was called when he
was walking across the stage at his
graduation like big
auditory moments in life or someone
saying i do at their wedding
um or you know people jumping out at a
surprise party there's like special or
the sound that a dog made when you first
got a puppy and like it you know it's
running around in the yard
um those are momentous and that's
important and so we can
put those alongside images of important
moments
or even have them stand alone i think
the second of the two
like experiential pieces is uh more
every day um like like just being
present in the day-to-day of your loved
ones like what does it sound like
um you know after that big graduation
moment and people are hanging out you
know in the backyard having a cookout or
um you know whatever it is and so if we
could have a way to maybe say we
you know we wish that our loved one were
present for this the smaller moments
um something we could do is have like a
nudge
to the younger user maybe that took they
took the big momentous picture
they captured that moment great maybe a
couple of times later in the day we
nudged them
um via like a push notification to their
phone
to capture a casual moment for their
loved one and that can be shared
alongside it and associated
with both thinking about those workflows
from the beginning like associated with
the person
uh the event and maybe even the location
as well so this can be accessed by
um the other users so really just trying
to again thinking about that vision like
bring them
in um for both types of moments if
if we could and tying them to those
those workflows does that make sense on
the kind of experience side
yeah that makes sense i like the second
one where we kind of make it so that
they're
at the event where it's a little less
artificial and it might be
just like hey random times record
something from the audio
and it really makes the elderly person
feel like they're there
i like that that's definitely the goal
um
and they could send them back right and
so that actually kind of maybe brings me
then to the third of the three
so we've looked at kind of logistics
we've looked at just experience coming
from
the younger family members to the the
elderly user now let's also think about
how they could engage back like that's
really important if we're centering this
person they have to be able to
participate they're not just in a
passive observer right
um so you know one way if we can think
about
how can they send you know pieces of
their life back and how can they react
to what's being shared by their
relatives so one thing that occurs to me
is like verbal
comments um or you know how could you
you know say like even just the sound
of someone going aw or like wow or you
know oh my gosh or whatever it is and
just reacting
um you know perhaps we could allow the
if the person was comfortable and we'd
have to
do a little user research but you know
if uh we could even automatically record
you know kind of the reactions that the
that the user is having in real time
otherwise to your point
you know it could sound a little
artificial if you're just like saying aw
because you would have written
all um but if we could really record
their reactions in real life
and then maybe give them the option to
confirm that they want to send that
um or we could automatically add it if
that ended up being something folks were
comfortable with
um that you know they could send that
back and then you know me at my
graduation you know party get a nudge
and i can see that my you know my loved
one is enjoying that and i could send
one back
to them and we could have a conversation
the way that you might in like a
facebook comments thread
attached to an image um for
for sighted users um we could even do
something like like audio emojis
if there was some way to like maybe you
could pick you know different audio
emojis to engage with that were
correlated with like if i'm a
sighted user i'm like familiar with like
the heart kissing face
but you know what you know audio we can
put a funny sound to attach
to that and then you know use that as a
more casual and easier vocabulary
sometimes you don't want to record an
audio clip um
then there can be some pre-made ones
that are still fun and vivid
um to send back and forth to to each
other
yeah yeah it sounds like we want some
way for the
the younger relative to know that the
elderly relative has some sort of
reaction just to acknowledge this
two-way street definitely i think that's
important on both ends like to the
logistical piece from the outset
it's very important to show the younger
users that this is
this is something that the older user is
enjoying because i do suspect they are
the ultimate decision maker
but their decision will be based off of
utilization by the elderly user so we
want to keep that feedback loop strong
and to keep it as strong as possible we
want to make sure the elderly user feels
empowered and able to participate when
they want to and in control
they shouldn't have to they should be
able to sit back and just watch if they
like but let's give them the opportunity
i know some folks would really
um i suspect some folks would really
prefer that yeah and it also reminds the
younger person like hey there's a human
there's your relative behind this app
it's not just you're not just like
posting it onto your instagram or
something like that
cool um so i really like how you broke
it down to logistics and the experience
and the different interactions that we
can have
um i'm curious if you can't talk a
little bit about
how you might see how we could measure
success for this
yeah very important question um so as
you know as we've been talking about it
we really have been thinking about kind
of two user chunks
uh right there's the it's kind of the
buyer who might be the um
younger relative like a child or a
grandchild um
and then sort of what i'm thinking of is
they're not the only end user but the
the other end user is the the elderly
person so i'd want to have success
metrics associated with both
um at the highest level we want this app
to continue to be used
uh you know if whether it's like a
freemium tool or whether there's a you
know a subscription component of course
we'd want the buyer or decision maker to
to decide it was a good investment you
know if money is
is involved and so the way that we do
that um is
utilization by both parties you know i
think my top priority would be
utilization by the elderly visually
impaired person
since i believe that this tool would be
selected to make sure that they were
involved so it'd be really important
most of all that that person had a high
satisfaction like a high net promoter
score i don't think i'd measure in terms
of nps
uh but you know would they recommend it
to their friends do they continue using
it so the you know the simplest metric
is does that person build a habit
of coming in and engaging with with
things that are shared
um so each time that something is
available you know how often
is the elderly user viewing those
materials and engaging back with them
with their family members on the family
member side
i'd want to know how often are they
feeding content in there
you know that's important because
otherwise there's nothing to engage with
for our elderly users so
you know that's that's a potential
pitfall here if this person if the
younger users are already posting things
on instagram they're posting on facebook
things are already it's a bunch of work
if this is too challenging and they
forget it's not easily woven into their
lives
then the whole system falls apart
because there's nothing for the elderly
user
to engage with so it's really important
for us to be present for
them so i'd really just have engagement
steady and sustained
um well i wouldn't necessarily need to
be steady and sustained but at least
around key milestones
and sustained over time in order for
this to be successful
yeah that definitely yeah i like how you
call that retention there
it's it's kind of like if youtube didn't
have any content you wouldn't be able to
have anything it's
really similar in this case yeah and we
didn't and we didn't talk as much about
potential integrations here
i do think we could hedge against the
risk of no con
like people not putting enough content
in here by integrating with other places
where they're putting content already
um so if there's an option when you're
uploading to facebook for example can
you also upload
to to this to this app just to make it
as easy and to
increase the chances that content is
going to funnel in here from those
younger folks
yeah um oh like this is great
honestly and um i think we can stop here
and
i could take off my interviewer had and
um
again like this i really like your
answers here and before i give you my
feedback i'm curious
what your self-reflection might be yeah
i think it's such a fun interesting
topic i think sometimes i like i have a
tendency
to go down rabbit holes especially with
stuff that kind of catches my
imagination
i think i really had a vivid image in my
head of the elderly user i recently
spent time with my grandfather and i was
thinking of him
um he hasn't you know we've been talking
through the glass of his
of his um assisted living facility which
is really hard and so that that user was
very front and center for me
whereas i think the the buyer persona
the younger
folks was actually not as not as friend
of mine like you kind of brought that
back in a little bit in the questions
you were asking me so i wish i had
balanced those
a little bit more um is is one
reflection that i would have
okay yeah please yeah no i
think that overall this was a very
strong answer i like how we talked about
the different types of users and the
different
levels of interact-ability they had so
do we have day-to-day people
or day-to-day interactions with the
elderly or maybe just holiday touch
points
or maybe not being able to see each
other due to something like a pandemic
or distance
and i liked how we focused on just
trying to make sure that
the elderly person can be as involved as
possible
with the family regardless of their
situation but we really focused on
not being able to see each other due to
some some variable right
something that i really liked in your
answers was that you
paused at certain spots to give a recap
so you would give the three
use cases or you would give your three
solutions and then you would say
especially over a zoom call it's it's
really important to say hey like this is
what i said
one two and three that's it's very
powerful especially when it comes to
helping to make sure the interviewer
understands and is on the same page
and something else that i thought was
really powerful was that you
talked a little bit about the before and
after scenarios of
what your solutions would be so you
talked about before
people would just post on facebook and
et cetera and after
we talked about the logistics and broke
it down into the experience and the
interactions that the
the elderly and the younger relative
would have
i really like that i think when it comes
to
the metrics i think we probably should
and i know that we didn't have a lot of
time here and it's kind of like just a
mock interview right
but i think um it would be a little bit
stronger to talk about
maybe some guardrail metrics or some
counter metrics
that you might want to implement but
overall
i really did like this answer and i
liked how you
kept in mind i think in the beginning i
had a nudge a little bit or maybe you
were getting there and i just
interrupted you
but kind of talk a little bit more about
how specifically we can make this
into a product for someone with a vision
impairment
and you specifically called out things
like hey if they have
this extreme vision impairment like we
set up we want to focus a lot on the
auditory aspects and we want to
if there are any visual indicators they
have to click on we have to make them
high contrast
and i think that as someone who's
interviewing or
as an interviewee this just shows that
you have empathy and you
you can put yourself in their shoes so
good job on that
thanks thanks it was fun to talk it
through cool so thanks again for being
on today's show
and for the viewers if you have a
different approach on how you'd answer
this question
would love to hear what you'd have to
say thanks for tuning in
and good luck with your upcoming pm
[Music]
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