2021 Capital Link Maritime Forum - Norway: Norwegian Shipping in a Changing World: Past to Future
Summary
TLDRIn a panel discussion, industry veterans explore the evolution of Norway's shipping industry. They discuss the past, driven by risk-takers and hard-working individuals, the present, marked by challenges and a potential downward spiral, and the future, where the green shift offers new opportunities. The conversation highlights the importance of passion, access to capital, technology, and the adaptability of the Norwegian maritime cluster to stay competitive.
Takeaways
- 🌐 The panel discussion revolved around the past, present, and future of the Norwegian shipping industry, highlighting the industry's adaptability and innovation throughout different eras.
- 🧗 The Norwegian shipping industry's historical success is attributed to risk-taking, hard-working individuals with a passion for the business and strong commercial instincts.
- 🏛 The industry has evolved from a more buccaneering and personal approach to a more industrial and technology-driven model, reflecting changes in how business is conducted.
- 💼 The shift from traditional shipping to offshore and specialized shipping has been a strategic adaptation to market conditions, leveraging Norway's strengths in engineering and maritime expertise.
- 💼🌐 Access to capital has been a significant factor in the Norwegian shipping industry's growth, with Norwegian banks playing a crucial role in financing and supporting the industry's expansion globally.
- 📉 Despite recent challenges and a perceived downward trend in traditional commodity shipping, there is optimism for the future, especially with the rise of new technologies and the green shift in the industry.
- 🌿 The green shift is seen as a potential catalyst for reinvigorating the Norwegian maritime cluster, with a focus on sustainable and environmentally friendly practices in shipping.
- 🛳 The industry is currently experiencing a period of uncertainty due to the unknowns of future fuel types and emissions regulations, which is affecting new ship orders and technology development.
- 🤝 The panelists emphasized the importance of collaboration, not just within the industry but also with financial investors and clients to navigate the green shift and capitalize on new opportunities.
- 📈 There is a noted increase in profitability across various shipping segments, suggesting a potential upswing in the industry's fortunes, which could attract more investment and talent.
- 🔄 The discussion underscored the cyclical nature of the shipping industry and the need for continuous adaptation to remain competitive, particularly in the face of technological advancements and environmental concerns.
Q & A
What is the main topic of the roundtable discussion in the script?
-The main topic of the roundtable discussion is the past, present, and future of the shipping industry, with a focus on the changing world and the impact of the green shift on the industry.
What factors contributed to Norway's past dominance in the shipping industry?
-Factors contributing to Norway's past dominance in the shipping industry include a long coastline, rough conditions, risk-taking and hard-working people, and a tradition of seafaring dating back to the Viking era.
How does Peter characterize the Norwegian risk-takers he has worked with in the shipping industry?
-Peter characterizes the Norwegian risk-takers as having a lot of passion for the business, good commercial instincts, and different strategies that have led to significant success and wealth accumulation over time.
What has traditionally been the lifestyle of those involved in the shipping industry according to the script?
-Traditionally, the lifestyle of those involved in the shipping industry was very much a 24/7 business, often involving deals made in bars and restaurants, and requiring a deep understanding and immersion in the industry.
What role has access to capital played in the success of the Norwegian shipping industry?
-Access to capital has played a significant role in the success of the Norwegian shipping industry, with Norwegian banks and capital markets holding a strong position on a global scale and providing essential financial support to the industry.
How has the Norwegian shipping industry adapted to changes in the banking and financing landscape over the years?
-The Norwegian shipping industry has adapted by becoming more financially sophisticated, diversifying funding sources beyond banks to include bond markets, equity markets, and private lending, thus reducing financial risk.
What is the significance of the 'green shift' in the context of the shipping industry's future?
-The 'green shift' signifies a major transition towards more sustainable and environmentally friendly practices in the shipping industry, which is expected to create new opportunities and challenges, and potentially reinvigorate the industry.
What impact has the green shift had on the current sentiment in the shipping industry?
-The green shift has led to increased positivity and interest in the shipping industry, with a focus on new technologies and opportunities, as well as a potential for a more profitable and sustainable future.
How does the script suggest that the Norwegian maritime cluster can leverage the green shift?
-The script suggests that the Norwegian maritime cluster, with its strong technological and industrial shipping background, is well-positioned to take advantage of the green shift by developing and adopting new environmentally friendly technologies and practices.
What challenges does the uncertainty surrounding future fuel types pose for the shipping industry?
-The uncertainty surrounding future fuel types has led to hesitancy in ordering new ships and has created a need for the industry to adapt quickly to new regulations and technologies, potentially impacting the entire industry from 2023 onwards.
How might the green shift influence the role of ship brokers in the industry?
-The green shift may require ship brokers to be at the forefront of new technological developments, working closely with clients and financial investors to navigate the changes and opportunities presented by environmentally friendly shipping practices.
Outlines
🚢 Opening Remarks and Introduction to Norwegian Shipping Industry Veterans
The session begins with Nicolas Bourneus of Capitalink welcoming participants to a roundtable discussion featuring industry veterans with extensive experience in the shipping industry. The panelists, including Kristen, Harold Hermann, and Peter, are recognized for their deep knowledge of the business, both in Norway and globally. The moderator, Harold, takes over to start the discussion on the history, current state, and future of non-relationshiping in a changing world, with a focus on the Norwegian shipping industry's past success factors, such as risk-taking and hard work.
🌐 The International Appeal of Norwegian Shipping and Its Historical Context
The panel delves into the historical factors that contributed to Norway's dominance in the shipping industry, highlighting the country's long coastline and the seafaring spirit of its people since the Viking era. The discussion emphasizes the international nature of shipping as a draw for Norwegians, offering opportunities to engage with diverse cultures and conduct business globally. Herman reflects on the appeal of the industry, which stood out as international and adventurous compared to the more domestic and introverted Norwegian economy before the oil boom in the 1960s.
💼 Capital Access as a Cornerstone of Norwegian Shipping Success
Christine discusses the role of capital in the success of the Norwegian shipping industry, explaining how Norwegian banks and capital markets have played a significant role on a global scale. She recounts the shift in the 1980s when international banks became less supportive of ship owners, leading to a stronger collaboration with Norwegian banks. The banks saw shipping as an interesting and sophisticated business, which led to the development of financial products tailored to the industry's needs, thus strengthening the financial cluster in Norway.
🔬 The Maritime Cluster and Attraction of Talent in Norway's Shipping Industry
The conversation turns to the maritime cluster in Norway and the attraction of skilled professionals to the industry. Peter shares his perspective on the ups and downs of recruiting talented individuals, noting that shipping was once the premier industry for ambitious professionals in Norway. The transition from shipping to offshore industries is highlighted as a unique movement that capitalized on the profits made during the shipping boom, attracting highly educated individuals to the maritime sector.
📉 Reflections on the Current State of Norwegian Shipping and Its Challenges
The discussion addresses the present state of Norwegian shipping, with the panel expressing concerns about a perceived downward trend in recent years. Factors such as banks scaling down their shipping portfolios and a shift in focus to other industries are considered. Christine counters with the view that the maritime sector has broadened its base, becoming more financially sophisticated and capable of adapting to new opportunities, such as the green shift in energy.
🛳️ The Future of Shipping: Commodity Cycles and the Green Shift
The panelists consider the potential for a resurgence in commodity shipping and the impact of the green shift on the industry. There is optimism about the possibility of a commodity supercycle and the role of technology in driving change. Peter suggests that Norway's strength may lie in specialized and technologically intensive sectors rather than traditional commodity shipping. The conversation also touches on the importance of access to capital and the potential for a stronger position in the future.
💹 Financing the Green Shift in Shipping and Its Implications
Christine and the panelists explore the financing challenges and opportunities presented by the green shift in shipping. They acknowledge the difficulty of financing early-phase green technologies but express confidence in the adaptability of the Norwegian industry. The discussion highlights the importance of cash flow and the potential for equity-based or direct lending as alternative financing methods, with an emphasis on the role of capital in driving industry sentiment.
🌿 Embracing the Green Shift as a Catalyst for Norway's Maritime Industry
In the final segment, the panelists agree that the green shift could reinvigorate Norway's maritime cluster, with a focus on innovation and adaptation to new technologies. The conversation points to the potential for Norway to take a leading role in the green shift, with initiatives in short sea shipping and ferry businesses. The panelists also discuss the broader implications of the green shift for commodity shipping, including the development of new engine technologies and the impact of carbon regulations on the industry.
🔚 Concluding Thoughts on the Future of Norwegian Shipping
The session concludes with a summary of the key points discussed, including the historical success factors of the Norwegian shipping industry, the challenges faced in recent years, and the opportunities presented by the green shift. The panelists express optimism for the future, noting the industry's resilience and adaptability. The conversation ends on a positive note, with the anticipation of a renewed period of growth and innovation for Norwegian shipping.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Shipping
💡Risk Takers
💡Commodity Shipping
💡Maritime Cluster
💡Capital
💡Green Shift
💡Technology
💡Offshore
💡Banking and Financing
💡Regulation
💡Sustainability
Highlights
Introduction of industry veterans in a roundtable discussion on the past, present, and future of shipping.
Norwegians' historical dominance in shipping attributed to risk-taking and hard-working individuals.
Personalities in the shipping industry characterized by passion and commercial instincts.
Different strategies like discipline and cost consciousness versus high-risk taking can both lead to success.
The evolution of the shipping industry from a 24/7 lifestyle to a more industrial approach.
Norwegian attraction to shipping due to its international nature and respect abroad.
Access to capital as a key factor in the success of the Norwegian shipping industry.
Banks' involvement in shipping as a driver for product development and sophistication.
The maritime cluster in Norway as an ecosystem for innovation and support in the industry.
Challenges in recruiting talented individuals into shipping amid competition from other industries.
The perception of a downward spiral in Norwegian shipping in recent years.
The financial cluster in Norway becoming more diversified and sophisticated.
The potential for a commodity super cycle and its impact on shipping.
Specialized shipping and technology as areas of strength and future opportunities for Norway.
The green shift as a catalyst for change and opportunity in the maritime industry.
Norway's position in the green shift and its potential to lead in new maritime technologies.
The importance of adapting to new engine technologies and environmental regulations in shipping.
The conclusion that the green shift could re-energize the Norwegian maritime cluster.
Transcripts
nicolas bourneus of capitalink
i would like to welcome you uh to
the current session we have had a very
interesting and very busy and fruitful
day-to-day with lots of very interesting
discussions but this one i think is
particularly
uh different and interesting we have the
great
pleasure to have with us
for people who are literally industry
veterans in terms of experience
and uh insight so i'm delighted that
they have joined us
on this panel to have a roundtable
discussion about
the past the present and the future uh
all of them have had a very long
distinguished and successful career in
shipping
and they know this business inside out
so
not only the norwegian side but also the
global side so
i would like to welcome kristen
uh harold hermann and peter and
without any more delay i will turn it
over to harold to
moderate the panel and again thank you
very very much
thank you very much for that
introduction nikolas so
let me see her i will try to share the
screen
can you see my presentation now uh
oh there i guess it is
you can see it guys christine yes very
good
okay so let's uh let's get going uh
so the topic of today is no
relationshiping in a changing world
past present and future so with uh
what nikolas referred to as industry
veterans
uh on the panel let's start with the
past
so with a long coastline and rough
conditions
norway has been a dominant force in
shipping
since the vikings were running the show
we have tried to identify some of the
factors that are contributed
to norwegians past glory days
in shipping and i think
the first factors is like risk takers
hard-working people it start it starts
with the people
uh we had some real risk takers and
adventurers
that were playing hard in the global
market
and peter you have been involved in
shipping
in the global and norwegian market for
decades
almost since the viking age i guess you
have worked with a lot of these
norwegian risk takers over the years so
how will you characterize these people
you have worked with
what has been like their factors for
success
um their drive peter
no i i think that um obviously
it boils down to a lot of passion for
the business
and and i think historically good
commercial instincts
and i worked together with mr
frederickson for many years
and i also worked with the offer family
for many years
and both these families are very
passionate about shipping
but what i found interesting was that
the offer family was very disciplined
cost conscious both low uh
paid down their debt and made sort of a
consistent 20
return you know since the early 70s
uh with relatively low debt whereas
frederickson he took high risk
he was in financial distress a couple of
times
uh didn't fix his ships very often spot
restriction rings challenges but
you know he was also very successful so
i found it very interesting that you
could have
some very very different strategies
leading to double digits
in billions of dollars in net worth you
know after
30 40 years of hard work
oh that's that's good then what you're
saying hard work
is and you're saying that shipping is a
passion
uh so so so i guess you really have to
live and read shipping in order to be
successful or is that obviously it
i think so and i think it's very much uh
at least traditionally when you go back
to the 70s and the 80s
it was very much a 24 7 business
it was very much a lifestyle i think you
had very colorful
characters um i think more transactions
were done in bars and restaurants than
today
now we are on teams and it's a much more
sort of
industrial approach to shipping
and and the financing and and so forth
so
it was much more of a buccaneering uh
period but
even if you had these more flamboyant
characters
it didn't mean that they were not
serious about their business or that
they weren't you know really intelligent
um
and and uh tough in negotiations
um so and i think you find a lot of that
today as well so i think the style has
changed
but i think the engine driving uh
the profitability and the need for the
people who achieve success
is still very much the same so um
the form might be different but the
content is
is quite similar well that's a good
that's a good point uh herman
why do you think all these norwegians
got attracted into shipping
in the first place was it the war
stories
and what peter here is talking about uh
signing deals
in bars and restaurants all the
traveling lunches
and parties that attracted or what
attracted you
and what do you think have been like the
attraction what has brought all these
people
into shipping over the years and
norwegians in particular
wrong with long lunches cyril
but i think we in a way we have to
take a step back we have to remember
where norway was coming from
before the oil really hit us in the 60s
i think apart from shipping
it was it has been a fairly domestic
and introvert economy while
shipping had this certain flavor
being truly international
and you could do business with other
cultures
traveling abroad and on top of that i
think
norway was well respected i mean if you
were in shipping
you had kind of a some respect abroad
if you were norwegian um
i i remember when i was in my early
career i was working for
in the toolbar club in this group and
the later lock loudness he said that you
know
birds while flying out
they will come home with food in the to
the nest
and it was kind of we traveled a lot all
over the places to
countries i hardly heard about before i
started in shipping
to try to dig out business being
creative
and and being in norwegian i think for
when i told that to people friends
working in the
real estate or whatever they were doing
that it was more exotic
uh i would say and so if you were a bit
adventurous
shipping was really it um
why i joined that kind of
my grandfather and my father they
they were in the shoe production beach
business can you imagine
being competitive and i'm just an
illustration on norway
was from this kind of the 50s 60s and
early 70s
and again before the oil in a very
uh labor-intensive industry norway was
extremely competitive
and that was obviously not very
sustainable through the 70s so i had to
kind of dig out new grounds so then i
i felt had i always had this romantic
kind of
perception of shipping and everything
related to
maritime industry so so it was
and when i kind of started in the late
80s i was really hooked
in the story oh that's good that's a
good
good good perspective uh uh thank you
for that
uh further down on the list in terms of
uh success
success factors uh for the norwegian
shipping industry
we have access to capital
we had banks and the capital markets
in norway have had like an extremely
strong position
on a global scale christine
uh you have been heavily involved in
this and
has had a strong position in this market
uh why has norway had such a dominant
position
in providing capital to the shipping
industry
has the business been so profitable for
profitable for the banks or or
what is the reason it wasn't he started
calculating risk but
yes you didn't take risk into the
equation and all this so that's
no no no no no it was just nominal
numbers
that was the fascination you know when
when some of us started
in the 80s um
it was only international banks in
norway it was in many honey
it was hombres citibank german
other germans and and the norwegian ship
owners didn't want to deal with the
small
norwegian banks but then the the in the
late 80s or mid 80s late 80s shipping
market went
south as it does regularly and
international banks didn't really
treat the ship owners that well so i
think they felt
that was not in a way fair and then they
want they saw the need to start
also working with the norwegian bank so
i think that
in combination with norwegian banks
becoming
larger saw this as an interesting
business
and and as herman said shipping was
of the maritime sector that was very
much
shipping at that time was the only
global international
export industry so for for the banks
this was really an interesting um
interesting business
and these were the most sophisticated
clients
of the bank they were those driving the
product development like
i i remember the first time we talked
about the swap on interest
i mean we really had to use a calculator
to understand what that was so
it was a sophisticated part of the
business um
for the banks uh and with that
strong foothold the norwegian ship
owners had it was natural for the
for for the banks to follow them than
out in the world so i think that is
that is where it started and then um
some international bank drove it back a
bit after the downturn and 80s and the
norwegian banks and the scandinavian
banks could
have more of a market to go into in that
same time you had some of them
financial houses coming in like porieto
you had the
single code you had some of these
starting financing
and starting project houses so the chaos
market also started at the same time so
you had
the bonds the case market and the banks
so you started to have more of a
financial cluster in a way in the in the
90s
in norway so that strengthen our
position
and and it was it was a profitable
time uh yes we had moses obviously it's
cyclical
but but you know also the difference
between
norwegian banks scandinavian banks and
international is that
we have long lenses international banks
get either more panic or they want to
get out
faster whilst we have a longer line to
understand that these industries are so
core for
norwegian non-invasion economy so we
also have to think that way
so it's so there are many several many
of these aspects which um
which which come together and
yeah now it's an interesting perspective
what you're saying that uh
in a way the shipping shipping clients
were the most uh
sophisticated clients of the bank so in
a way they were like
maybe instrumental in terms of like
shaping the banks
and and making the banks more
sophisticated also
versus other industries so they were
instrumental in
developing maybe the norwegian corporate
banking industry i don't know
absolutely and i remember many of these
meetings we had with markets
because they basically had norwegian
business or scandinavian business so
suddenly we
we did the finance shuttle transits
being built in china and we had to do
inter-swap so we had to do
forex stops and we had to do export
financing that was completely new
so it was a we were developing the bank
with those those clients i think that
also was
such a fascination for those of us who
started in the industry we were like
thrown into
the big world and learning in in a big
height with high speed oh that's
interesting
and then i can just just add another
aspect there because we you said
profitable yes it was profitable because
we
we we um we calculated differently today
so if you go into the financial crisis
or before the financial crisis and after
that's when the banks got much more
requirements to capital
then we had to add capital to the
creation of the return so risk
rated return came much much bigger to
the table
that's when we started to have challenge
to have a good
return base but we can talk more about
that later but that's really the
changing mood for a lot for the
international
or banking business for um for the
shipping industry
thank you for that sir christine uh
further down on the list on the on the
key factors we have listed technology
leadership
my hypothesis is that shipping and
offshore
was seen as an attractive industry for
smart engineers
we also had this what we call the
maritime cluster in norway
uh big industry a lot of people
uh within everything from like the
broking industry
uh yeah dnd you have insurance
i mean you have a lot of like supporting
businesses to
to to innovate support the maritime
industry in norway
uh peter you have been part
of this cluster with plato and late
exactions
what has been your experience being part
of this through
booming and difficult markets have
people always been like
keen to to to go into shipping and has
been
easy for for for you guys to to recruit
talented people into shipping or has it
been
ups and downs how do you see that
you are you are mute peter
so i think there's been there's
obviously been ups and downs
um if you go back you know to the 60s
ship rocking was really the first
uh industry where you could make money
real money
if you didn't have a family with um
real estate or a factory or a trading
company
and and today was sort of the first
young aspiring professionals
and and i think what happened in norway
was that it evolved
and you had uh obviously a booming
shipping in the late 60s early 70s
and uh norwegian shipping started to
accurate
you know civil engineers lawyers mba
people with business degrees and um
so it became in norway and let's say a
very prestigious
industry to work with and then um
and then you had the transition from
shipping to offshore where people made a
lot of money
in uh in shipping and then the market
crashed and then they
were trying to reinvest their profit
into offshore
and i think that was kind of unique
transition from shipping to offshore
because
in in america it started with onshore
drilling rigs
and they moved offshore in norway it
started kind of with shipping
and then they started with uh offshore
drilling rigs so
i i think it's been it's been an
attractive business to be
in in norway whether you work for a ship
owner or ship broken company because it
was really
the only industry where norway had
industrial credentials
which was truly international where you
got to do a lot of traveling
um and and i think it's sort of a it's a
unique
unique thing in norway uh to a large
extent and um
and again we see also in norway with
with the ship brokers which are
on average highly educated whereas in
the rest of the world
they tend to on average have less less
education so
um i think that has created lots of
poster dynamics in in uh in our industry
well that's good uh let's spend some
time on uh
let me see here if you can slide
uh
there you can see the next slide now yes
uh
so now i spent some time on the past
let's um let's spend some time
on the present and here on the present
we are in a way also
including the past like five years
up until today and my personal feeling
is that shipping in norway the last few
years have been in kind of a downward
spiral
maybe norwegians i prefer they're more
like comfortable life in their cabins
rather than going full steam in the
shipping business
living and breeding shipping 24 7
traveling around the world
uh maybe not been that much of that
lately
some of the banks are scaling down their
shipping business
their books are being reduced even some
banks are like uh
reorganizing and and shipping is like
been put further down
in organizations um um
maybe other industries than shipping
have been like attracted
the smartest engineers uh i'm not going
to shipping
but but but uh i'm offshore but other
industries like the tech industry
uh recently so so i think
personally that we have been like uh a
bit in an awkward spiral
uh uh the last uh five years uh
christine uh what's your comment on this
uh in terms of the financing and banking
market
have they been uh like a bit like
on a negative trend or how do you see it
depending on you see that uh um
i think the uh um
if you just look at the lending book of
the banks yes
that's been reduced but if you look at
how we have built up a financial cluster
in norway and how much stronger
the the other sources of capital has
come to the table
that's that's normal that is in most of
the industry you're not just
depending on the banks you're depending
on whether you use the bond market you
use equity market you use
releases uh you use resources you can
now make private lending so i think
the banks or the the industry has become
more
financially sophisticated and
hopefully they have become less
financial
risky they take commercial and
operational risk
but they can reduce their financial risk
by diversifying their funding sources
and that's what
many of them have done over this year so
i think that's a
that's a good thing for the industry so
i wouldn't say
it's um that has just reduced the
importance of the industry and i i think
i'm a bit disagreeing with you because
i think this if you look at the broader
base just not just the shipping as such
but the maritime sector
and you look at that strong position
this industry has in norway
it's amazing and we will come back to
that for the future but if you see
how you have we have built up the
service sector the
suppliers the broad base and the
technology systems or structure or the
companies in this institution we have in
um
specifically but also other places i
would say
we have we have kept a position but in a
much
broader base which have given us a
foothold to going to succeed in seafood
a lot of people from energy and shipping
have gone in or
engineering and competency has been used
to that industry
and we see it now in the green shift
which we will talk about so
so far i think it's it's a bit more um
wider scope i have somebody stopped it
yeah i i see that maybe my perception is
also a bit like ribbon but
obviously it's been a bit challenging
markets and um
you're talking about the broader
maritime sector and obviously for
offshore peace oil and gas
supply vessels has been uh pretty rough
depicted like that
the last five years so that's maybe also
like flavoring my
perception a bit yeah and you just can
have one comment back to that because
by having this broad base we can more
easily come back when it's
when the times are good again because
it's not just like one
narrow part of the industry we have a
much broader base so yes we have
downturns which are
really heavy but when we when we see the
opportunity coming
we can we have we have the resources
what's your take on this mr bilo uh i
have a lost or more joy in shipping
uh the last years if you like where uh
uh could start all over again and you
were like
finished with your education uh in
2019 when you have got back into
shipping then or
what do you think you know i tend to
when i
i always say that in my next life i'm
going to work in shipping
and uh and i because i always love the
business
but obviously if you look at regular
commodity shipping it's
it's not only oil and gas and supply you
have had rough times we haven't really
made any money for the last
few years in commodity shipping and then
obviously
recruiting hasn't been on top of the
agenda uh
but but as christian says we we have the
platform
and i think
people have to you know it's not only
ship owners who have short memory
uh so so also
so if you look at right now i mean
you're
reading financial times or others
they're all talking about
we are in might might come into a
commodity super cycle
and and we see it in in my
little early in dry broke you see you we
see what is happening right now and
obviously
this can come back but i'm not entirely
sure if norway is
will have a big big platform over
regular commodity shipping but
i think we are our advantage is the
society itself is it's it's
it's fairly it's it's we are good on
technology
we are good on the digital solutions so
i think
uh so so
so things can change fast uh and
as it looks now finally at least uh our
time
has under the call and for the container
business and
and also for the gas business looks like
we might be the combat kids in the
coming years
which could change everything very fast
so i'm i'm i'm kind of positive but i
don't think you will see a lot of
regular commodities ship owners in
norway in the future i think
we will be in in different areas more
so than in commodity shipping yeah you
you were building a commodity shipping
company
but you sold out uh to the us mcgriest
into huh
yeah that was uh not because i mean it's
you know that the norwegians we are
extremely cheap so it's it's a
management in norway it's not very
expensive compared to
many other countries but our challenge
was that our platform was too small
and and and the size matters liquidity
if you are listed company matters a lot
so so uh today looking in
the bright light of hindsight i think
that was a good decision to be part of a
of a biggie platform and and i it's
international business um
and and and we have seen through the
pandemic where if you are sitting here
there and whatev wherever we are
it's it's it it works so it's uh
but access to capital i think will still
be
uh something which
will be an important point for norway
peter you have anything to add to this
uh have you pushed your
kids into shipping or have you advised
them against it or or
any perspectives please
i think you're on mute again peter
no i haven't really given them any
specific guidance um
but for some reason they have chosen not
to enter into shipping
so uh the two oldest are in private
equity and the youngest might go into
investment banking but what i wanted to
add a bit is
with regards to uh the high level of
education among the people in
shipping slash offshore in norway and i
think that's one of the reasons why our
relative strength
through the years have been more in
industrial shipping specialized shipping
lng lpg subsidy
construction um pctc
etc etc and i think the flexibility
of the norwegian model whereby we are
one of the two
places in the world where you can really
raise capital for shipping and offshore
and also for offshore wind and that's
the two places is new york and it's uh
oslo and very often you have years where
more capital is raised for these
industries
in oslo than in new york and i think
you're seeing now
a push um over to
offshore wind and offshore wind
installation vessels and the green
energy
and a lot of capital is invested there
so it's a cluster of industrial shipping
of specialized
offshore and green technology
and the access to capital that we have
which is very very
efficient in norway i mean you can raise
money as you know heidel
very quickly here so i think that's
that the flexibility of the call it's
business model and the resources we have
here
makes us adapt quickly but i agree with
herman that our relative strength in the
past
and going forward is not commodity
shipping
it's the more specialized the technology
intensive
part of the industry that i think we
will be successful in
no that's good um i guess that is taking
us to the
uh final uh uh slider
and that's on the future and the
questionnaire is
will the green shift as we call it bring
our glory back
i mean i believe something really has
changed
just over the last year you see this
tremendous
huge focus on the green shift is now
coming
everyone is eager to like take part
and play an active role you see that in
the shipping industry
every single day at the same time you
see that
suddenly most chicken segments are
actually
making some money even the dry bulk
market tournament
is making decent money for once
so with this green shift creating
opportunities
uh um shipping actually performing
relatively well even share prices
are going up uh i think there is some
new positivism
out in the market and in a way i feel we
are
potentially moving a bit way out of this
negative spiral that we have been
been in for the past three to five years
uh so christine on that note uh
what do you think will banks open their
checkbook
and um be eager to finance new bills now
with some green technology attached to
it or
we see another boom coming
ninety percent pre-delivery financing
not the problem uh no i think uh
i think that's more of a challenge but i
think the whole point now that you see
the strengths of the
the how the norwegian industry takes the
the green takes the wind sector uh i
listened to
another seminar this morning um and
ecuador said that
what two third or three fourth i think
three two third of their suppliers
from wind projects we're now coming from
norway so and if you look at the
cluster pitch for the wind industry in
norway you see i mean
the whole maritime industry is there so
it's
really managed to to raise the bars
quite quickly i think the only the danes
that are ahead of norway when it comes
to
taking the wind sector by by storm
it's all always challenging to do
financing early phase
of new industries because there's a
higher risk
and that's also maybe by this huge
norwegians it's higher risk
it's new technologies early phase uh
small volumes that's always been where
we have
been strong when or developed like like
the chemicals like the lmg
like the crews like all specialists
and shuttle tankers all these specialist
areas we have been early and due to
those platforms we have
so i think financing it you you will
need
more developed market you will need more
of a contract base
um these specialized chips
as we know and the development has
happened so fast
it's more challenging to find us on a
stand-alone basis unless you are
building it all into a company which has
a certain
cash flow so it's it's all about cash
flow so i think
this is more for for either for equity
base
or for direct lending and but you
will find capital it's just that you
have to structure it differently and
then
all all based um bank lending
so i and i think all banks with all
banks also want
to go into the morning to the green so
i'm certain
that capital is coming in it's more a
matter of um
how to structure it in a way that you
you get an acceptable risk
yeah yeah i guess this green shift will
also have implications on the
also on commodities commodity shipping
uh i mean you will see
new engine technology on your dry build
vessels
i mean not a lot has happened there has
been some
development on dry bulk uh
the last uh 25 years but not a lot
uh has it but but will we get like a
a a a a huge step now
in technology and development uh on
vessel technology you believe
indeed i mean well i mean one point is
obviously that
all the the all the uncertainty related
to the fuel
fuel of the future it's refraining
owners from
ordering right now at least in my in my
space because there's a lot of
uncertainty
i mean this is not limited to norway but
i think that what is happening
on the particular on the carbon front
this
will be the biggest shift
we will haven't uh which is not clearly
as i said not limited to norway uh and
and we should know that as a threat but
as an opportunity and the big
serious player should applaud it uh
what is happening because uh uh
you will have massive changes and then
coming back to norway there are a lot of
things happening here
more on the short sea and in the ferry
business
and again i think we are in a position
to to use
our technological know how to develop
things whether it's
battery ammonia
hydrogen so there are a lot of things
happening uh
but a lot of uncertainty right now but
there are
meetings upcoming meetings in imo
it'd be very very very interesting on
particularly these carbon
indexes carbon tax what are we exposed
to
we don't really know at the moment but
at the end of the day i think it could
be the cargo owners who will be
setting the agenda not necessarily uh
imo i think both the eu you have a new
administration in us
there are so many things happening at
the same time we have
targets to meet which for 2 20 30
20 50 then hopefully i will be retired
by then but
in 2030 i mean things are happening so
fast and
and new rules we have to lead up to and
will have an
impact on the entire industry already
from 2023
and there have meetings uh
intercessionary meetings in imo
as we speak and the very heated
discussions on
on where we are going and and and i i i
think you know
in a way i'm all could be in in the back
seat because you have
politicians out there who are much more
higher ambitions and so this is going to
be
the the biggest kind of revolution and
then hopefully and i i believe so given
uh
the way we are uh put together in order
i think we could be on the forefront
on that as well and there are a lot of
things interesting initiatives happening
right now
yeah uh and as you said yes it's
shorter but i think to be honest i think
the the capital
in all the broad sense really have a
driving
uh also the sentiment for the for the
industry not just the banks it's it's
also the
all the investors and the private equity
they they have a
much higher profile and stand on the
issue which
is also pushing the industry faster
than we thought would happen yeah
and i guess the whole maritime cluster
in norway
are like i guess we'll see this green
shift
as us as a new opportunity and are
fighting for business
i guess peter if you're a good broker
today you are running around with new
concepts um
um technology trying to get close to the
people developing that technology and
trying to convince
some ship owners to to order a few new
bills here and there i guess the whole
broking industry
will spend a lot of time uh uh to to be
on top
of what's happening here with all the
techno
new technology and opportunities in the
green shift how do you see that peter
i i agree with you completely um and and
i can just you know speak for ourselves
that we've been
in a position to uh ordering
you know a lot of uh for instance dual
lng
chips dual fuel chips uh
for key clients and a close cooperation
with dnv uh looking at the various
alternatives with methanol and ammonia
and so forth um so so i think that
if you're going to be a cutting edge
broker today
you really need to be in the forefront
of
call it the carbon capture the green
shift and be able to speak
intelligently both with your clients and
with the
financial investors on on this subject
and i think also like herman was
alluding to that this is obviously
a factor that has decreased the new
building orders
except for in container so it has given
us a better supply picture so but
it's it's a very very interesting time
and there is lots of opportunities for
sure
well that's good uh i'll see we are
running out of time here i guess we
could have
continued this uh discussion uh uh
for another another hour too uh so i
think
just to sum up uh
i guess our conclusion is that we
believe there are some good years ahead
for shipping in norway and that this
green shift
is really an important factor uh uh
to like re-energize the norwegian
maritime cluster hopefully
we will see norway even getting stronger
um building a stronger position than
they have today
obviously it helps that uh chip owners
are making money today banks see that
their credits
looks pretty good and even the equity
investors
are getting a dividend here and there so
so so
it all looks better and uh the good
thing in shipping most people have a
very short memory so i guess
the only way is straight up from here
let me conclude by by saying that this
was an amazing uh
discussion thank you so much i mean you
bring
so much depth and insight uh
and uniqueness so thank you very very
much for sharing all that with us
um i wish you a wonderful evening
and i look forward to the next time
thank you so much thank you thank you
thank you
bye-bye
浏览更多相关视频
Digital Lending Trends Over the Next 3 Years | Bharat Fintech Summit 2023 | The Digital Fifth
Unleashing the Power of MENA eSports: Navigating Uncharted Challenges | SiGMA Eurasia 2024
Ngành bán dẫn 'săn' nhân lực - gen Z làm gì để "bắt trend" - TS. Đặng Minh Tuấn | #NgheTuonglai T02
Experimentation with Generative AI
AI and the Workforce
ひふみ目論見倶楽部【準備運動編】安宅和人さんと一緒に未来について考えました。
5.0 / 5 (0 votes)