From TikTok to the American Communist Party: Why Young Influencers Embrace Marxism

Summary

In this thought-provoking discussion, Carlos Gitto, a Cuban American philosophy professor and Secretary of Education of the new American Communist Party, joins the Kim Iverson Show to explore the resurgence of communism among the youth. Addressing misconceptions, Gitto explains the ideological differences between socialism and communism, emphasizing communism's alignment with American ideals of democracy and people's governance. He challenges the notion of socialism as 'handouts' and argues for a society that serves the people, not capital accumulation, critiquing the parasitic practices of Wall Street and big corporations.

Takeaways

• 📈 The script discusses the rising popularity of communism among the youth, with social media influencers like Jackson Hinkle promoting it.
• 🗣️ Carlos Gitto, a Cuban American philosophy professor and Secretary of Education of the new American Communist Party, is introduced as a guest to provide insight into communism.
• 🏛️ Gitto argues that communism is misunderstood and often demonized in the media, especially on platforms like Fox News, where it is used as a slur.
• 🤔 The conversation aims to explore what communism aims to solve and how it believes it can solve societal problems, despite the host's skepticism.
• 🔄 Gitto explains the difference between socialism and communism, stating that socialism is a transitionary phase towards a communist society, with the latter being more aligned with the ideals of Marx and Engels.
• 🌐 The script touches on the global impact of American foreign policy, particularly its 'hybrid warfare' against nations that challenge its imperialist influence.
• 🏭 Gitto emphasizes the need for a strong state in socialism to defend against external threats and to develop the economy for the benefit of the people.
• 💡 The idea that socialism is a logical extension of American ideals, promoting a government that is truly of, by, and for the people, is presented.
• 👥 The script criticizes the control of big money interests over the U.S. government, suggesting that politicians are more responsive to donors than to citizens.
• 💰 It points out the disparity between the wealth accumulation by a small elite and the struggles of the working class, describing the former as a parasitic culture.
• 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Gitto connects his patriotism to his support for communism, arguing that it is the most faithful way to realize American ideals and create a society that serves all its members.

Q & A

What is the main argument Carlos Gito presents about communism and its relation to American ideals?

Carlos Gito argues that communism is not a break from American ideals but rather a fulfillment of them. He believes that socialism and communism align with the progressive traditions of America, which emphasize a government of, by, and for the people.

How does Carlos Gito differentiate between socialism and communism?

Carlos Gito sees socialism as a transitionary period towards communism. While socialism still involves a state and the concept of 'from each according to their ability, to each according to their work,' communism is the end goal where the state withers away as it becomes unnecessary, and society operates on the principle of 'from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs.'

What does Carlos Gito believe is the role of the state in a socialist society?

In a socialist society, according to Carlos Gito, the state is qualitatively different and serves the interests of the working class and the people. It's a period where the people have control over the state, its institutions, culture, education, and economy to overcome capitalist obstacles and promote development.

Why does Carlos Gito think that socialism is misunderstood and demonized in the United States?

Carlos Gito suggests that socialism is misunderstood and demonized because of the vested interests of the capitalist class who control the narrative through media, education, and politics. They have an interest in maintaining the current system and perpetuating myths about socialism to prevent a shift towards a society that serves the people rather than capital accumulation.

How does Carlos Gito respond to the criticism that communism leads to poverty?

Carlos Gito counters the criticism by pointing to historical examples of rapid development and improved living standards in socialist countries. He cites the USSR's industrialization, the increase in life expectancy in China, and China's economic growth as evidence that socialism can lead to prosperity.

What does Carlos Gito say about the role of investment and lending in a socialist or communist society?

Carlos Gito believes that lending and investment can still exist in a socialist or communist society, but they should be directed towards productive ends that serve society, such as developing industry, housing, and businesses, rather than for speculative purposes or to enrich a few individuals.

How does Carlos Gito view the current financial industry's practices of making money from money?

Carlos Gito is critical of the financial industry's practices of making money from money, which he equates to usury. He sees this as a parasitic practice that does not contribute to the productive economy and is against the principles of socialism and communism.

What is Carlos Gito's stance on private property within a socialist or communist framework?

Carlos Gito does not advocate for the complete abolition of private property but rather the restructuring of society so that private property and capital serve the interests of society as a whole, rather than society serving the interests of capital accumulation.

How does Carlos Gito connect the ideals of the American founding fathers to socialism and communism?

Carlos Gito connects the ideals of the American founding fathers to socialism and communism by emphasizing the principles of democracy, equality, and the pursuit of happiness for all. He argues that these ideals are best realized in a socialist or communist society where the government and economy work for the benefit of all people.

What does Carlos Gito think about the portrayal of communism in American media and education?

Carlos Gito criticizes the portrayal of communism in American media and education as misleading and biased. He suggests that this portrayal is part of a larger effort to maintain the status quo and prevent the American people from considering alternative systems that could better serve their interests.

Outlines

00:00

📚 The Resurgence of Communism Amongst Youth

The video script begins by addressing the growing popularity of communism among the youth, particularly with social media influencers like Jackson Hinkle endorsing it and announcing the formation of the American Communist Party. The speaker expresses skepticism towards communism but is open to learning more. The guest, Carlos, a Cuban American philosophy professor and Secretary of Education for the new American Communist Party, is introduced. Carlos discusses the misunderstanding and demonization of communism and clarifies the difference between socialism and communism, emphasizing that he identifies as a communist because it aligns with the principles of Marx and Engels and supports the projects of 20th-century socialism.

05:00

🏛️ The Distinction Between Socialism and Communism

Carlos explains that while some people in the U.S. self-identify as socialists, often referring to themselves as democratic socialists, they tend to reject the traditions of 20th-century communism. He asserts that he identifies as a communist because it is the most faithful tradition to Marx and Engels' thought and supports the socialist projects of the 20th century, such as those in the Soviet Union, China, and Cuba. Carlos also discusses the transitional nature of socialism as a step towards a communist society, where the working class controls the state and its institutions to overcome capitalist obstacles and promote development.

10:02

🛡️ The Role of the State in Socialism and Communism

Carlos addresses the misconception that socialism and communism are about handouts, emphasizing that the principle is 'from each according to their ability, to each according to their work.' He argues against the parasitic nature of the current economic system, where a small group accumulates wealth without contributing to society. Carlos highlights the need for a strong state in socialism to defend the gains of the people's revolution and to battle against external forces that threaten the progress made towards a more equitable society.

15:04

🏳️‍🦱 The Intersection of American Ideals and Socialism

Carlos argues that socialism is not a break from American ideals but rather an extension of them, citing the slogan 'communism is 20th-century Americanism.' He suggests that true democracy and government 'of the people, by the people, for the people' as envisioned by the founding fathers is only achievable through socialism. Carlos criticizes the current U.S. government for being controlled by big corporations and financial interests, which he believes is antithetical to American values.

20:04

🤔 Challenging the Myths About Socialism and Communism

Carlos encourages a critical examination of the narratives surrounding socialism and communism, suggesting that many of the negative perceptions are propagated by those with vested interests in maintaining the status quo. He points out that the American people's ideals are more aligned with socialism than any other nation, and that the rapid development periods in human history have occurred under socialist governments, such as the USSR, China, and Cuba, debunking the myth that socialism leads to poverty.

25:05

💼 The Parasitic Culture of Capitalism

The discussion turns to the 'parasitic culture' within capitalism, where individuals and groups, such as Wall Street bankers and investors, profit immensely without contributing to society's productive forces. Carlos criticizes the focus on stock buybacks and the accumulation of capital for the benefit of a few, rather than investing in the development of the economy and infrastructure. He calls for a systemic change to prioritize the interests of the nation, traditional values, families, and the working class.

💡 The Purpose of Investment in a Socialist System

Carlos explains that in a socialist system, lending and investment would still exist but would be focused on productive activities that serve society, rather than speculative practices that only benefit a select few. He emphasizes the importance of using resources for the development of the real economy and supporting small businesses, aligning with the interests of the people and the nation's well-being.

Keywords

💡Communism

Communism is a political and economic ideology that seeks to establish a classless society where the means of production are owned and controlled by the community as a whole. In the video, communism is presented as a misunderstood system that aims to solve societal problems by eliminating the capitalist class and wealth disparities. The guest, Carlos, identifies as a communist and discusses the ideology's alignment with American values of democracy and equality.

💡Socialism

Socialism is an economic and political system where the means of production, distribution, and exchange are owned or regulated by the community as a whole. In the script, socialism is described as a transitional stage towards communism, with the ultimate goal of creating a more democratic and equitable society. The distinction between socialism and communism is a point of discussion, with the guest arguing that socialism is inherently democratic.

💡Democratic socialism

Democratic socialism is a political ideology that advocates for the democratic ownership and control of the means of production, with an emphasis on political democracy and social justice. In the video, the term is mentioned as a qualifier that some socialists use to differentiate themselves from the traditions of 20th-century communism, indicating a preference for a more gradual approach to achieving socialism.

💡Capitalism

Capitalism is an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods and services for profit. In the video, capitalism is critiqued for leading to de-industrialization, inequality, and a focus on the accumulation of capital over societal well-being. The discussion suggests that capitalism is the current system that communism and socialism aim to replace or reform.

💡State

In the context of the video, the 'state' refers to the governing body or institution that holds and exercises political authority. The script discusses the role of the state in socialism and communism, suggesting that under socialism, the state would be controlled by the people and used to advance societal interests, as opposed to the interests of a capitalist class.

💡American Communist Party

The American Communist Party mentioned in the script is a political organization that adheres to communist principles. The party is discussed as a new initiative announced by social media influencer Jackson Hinkle, with Carlos being introduced as the Secretary of Education for the party, indicating a renewed effort to promote communist ideology in the United States.

💡Marxism

Marxism is a social, political, and economic theory originated by Karl Marx, focusing on the struggle between social classes and the historical development of materialist modes of production. In the video, Marxism is presented as the foundational thought for both socialism and communism, with the guest advocating for a return to Marxist principles to address contemporary societal issues.

💡De-industrialization

De-industrialization refers to the decline in the importance of industry, particularly manufacturing, in an economy. The script mentions de-industrialization as a problem in capitalist economies, suggesting that socialism could be a solution by unleashing productive capacities and fostering innovation.

💡Hybrid Warfare

Hybrid Warfare is a military strategy that blends conventional warfare, cyberattacks, and other non-military methods to achieve objectives. In the video, the term is used to describe the tactics used by foreign powers, particularly the United States, to undermine countries that resist its influence, such as through economic sanctions or political subversion.

💡Parasitism

Parasitism in the video refers to individuals or groups that profit excessively without contributing to society, often at the expense of others. The term is used to criticize the capitalist class, suggesting that they accumulate wealth without producing value, leading to societal inequality and undermining the well-being of the majority.

💡Usury

Usury is the practice of lending money at high rates of interest, often considered exploitative. In the script, usury is condemned as a practice that exemplifies the 'making money from money' ethos of capitalism, which the guest argues is contrary to the values of socialism and communism that prioritize productive investment and societal benefit.

Highlights

Communism is gaining popularity among the youth, with social media influencers like Jackson Hinkle promoting it.

The American Communist Party was announced, aiming to address misunderstandings and negative perceptions of communism.

Carlos Gito, a Cuban American philosophy professor, discusses the goals and methods of communism as part of the new American Communist Party.

Gito argues that socialism is a transitional stage towards a communist society, differing from Democratic socialism in its acceptance of 20th-century communist practices.

Communists view socialism as a period where the working class controls the state to overcome capitalist production obstacles.

Gito emphasizes the need for a strong state in socialism to defend against foreign policy attacks and promote economic development.

The discussion explores the breakdown of democracy in the U.S., with big money interests controlling the government instead of representing the people.

Gito claims that socialism aligns with American ideals, promoting a government that is truly of, by, and for the people.

The conversation challenges the notion that socialism equates to handouts, emphasizing the importance of work and contribution to society.

Gito discusses the historical achievements of socialist countries, such as rapid development and increased life expectancy, countering the idea that socialism leads to poverty.

The interview addresses the parasitic nature of certain financial practices, such as stock buybacks, that do not contribute to economic development.

Gito argues for a reevaluation of socialism and communism, suggesting that common criticisms are based on misinformation propagated by vested interests.

The discussion highlights the potential for a socialist system to promote small businesses and support economic growth that benefits society as a whole.

Gito envisions a socialist society where individuals have more property, wealth, and free time to pursue creative and fulfilling activities.

The conversation concludes by emphasizing the need for critical examination of both historical and contemporary portrayals of socialism and communism.

Transcripts

communism amongst the youth in

particular seems to be gaining in

popularity we're seeing some popular

social media influencers like Jackson

Hinkle embracing communism and even

announcing the beginning of the American

Communist party now when you talk to

Communists they always tell you that

it's misunderstood and demonized which

we watch that on Fox news they kind of

label everything Marxism this Marxism

that they use it as a slur so tonight

we're going to dive into it a bit and

we're going to find out what problems

communism aims to solve

how they believe they can solve them um

I personally am highly skeptical of

Communism and I don't believe it works

but I'm willing to hear them out and I'm

always willing to learn so we're going

to be joined tonight by Carlos gito

Carlos is an a Cuban American philosophy

Professor he's the director of the

midwestern marks Institute and the

Secretary of Education of the new

American Communist party which was

announced like I mentioned by Jackson

Hinkle um he has authored many books

including last year's the Purity fetish

and the crisis of Western Marxism and

most recently why we need American

Marxism which is what we're going to be

talking about tonight so very interested

in that conversation he's written for

dozens of scholarly and popular

Publications around the world he runs a

weekly live broadcast for the midwestern

marks Institute on YouTube he's got a

substack very knowledgeable on the

subject matter tonight so we're going to

dive in Carlos welcome to the show thank

you so much for being here than thank

you so much for inviting me Kim it's a

pleasure to be here okay so uh you are a

communist is that fair to say yes yes

okay because sometimes I'll say are I'll

ask somebody if they're a communist they

say no no I'm a socialist can you first

explain the difference between socialism

and

communism um well you're absolutely

right uh it's a label I I wear on my

sleeve I think a lot of the people that

call themselves socialist specifically

within the context of the US uh they're

what they self-proclaim as Democratic

socialists which for me it's a

Superfluous qualifier for socialism I

consider social socialism to be itself a

society far more democratic than the one

that we are used to living in uh the

Socialists therefore usually call

themselves that because they reject the

tradition of 20th century communism and

often the tradition of 21st century

socialism I call myself a communist

because I think that it's the

uh the most U faithful and tradition

that inherits uh the thought of Mars and

Engles and I support the uh projects of

20th century socialism like Soviet Union

China Cuba Vietnam

Etc okay so would you say because some

people would think that socialism is

just the precursor to Communism it's

communism light it's just the pathway

and you say that no the social people

that call themselves socialists actually

reject communism they're not their

intention is not not to it's not a

stepping

stone well for us Communists socialism

is a transitionary period uh towards a

communist Society um but for the people

that call themselves socialists uh the

main distinction that's at play is

whether they accept or condemn uh the

reality of 20th century

communism okay so what is it that what

is so then give me why is socialism the

intermediary what from your perspective

what is it what's the step from where

we're at right now with capitalism to

socialism and then what would be the

steps from socialism to

Communism well um I think primarily we

have to understand that the only place

where marks and Engles ever sit down and

say communism is is when they say that

communism is the real movement of

history that abolishes the present state

of things so um for us socialism is this

intermediate step where you still have

uh the reality of a state it's not the

same state you have before in the US

when socialism is invoked people's mind

goes to more State less State and it's

not a quantitative question it's a

qualitative one um socialism is a period

where the working classes the popular

the the people basically are the ones

that have over have control over the

state it's uh institutions its cultural

apparatus education the economy Etc that

use it in order to overcome the feds or

the obstacles that the capitalist

relations of production place on

development I mean today we're seeing a

capitalist economies all over the world

spiral into de-industrialization

promoting specifically degrowth and the

wef agenda socialism comes in as a stage

that unleashes uh the forces of

production our productive capacities

that brings about Innovation and that is

cognizant of the fact that because it's

still in process they are going to be

lingering contradictions of the past

specifically in Social States the

necessity to have to battle against the

hybrid Warfare that American foreign

policy has waged on anyone who dares to

escape their imperialist uh grip and

this requires a strong State you know we

have an ideal of uh you know the state

itself withering away when it becomes

Superfluous uh but that's uh very very

far down the line and the focus now has

to be on developing the economy and

developing an efficient uh not very

bureaucratic strong state that can

defend the people's gains and the

people's Revolution from attacks from

foreign forces that do not have of

course the interest of those people at

heart but the interest of a select few

of uh of of the capitalist class who

hold as Supreme the accumulation of

capital or of Bankers who uh only want

to see those little numbers in their

computers go up right okay explain how

that is any different than what the

founding fathers envisioned so um I

understand now how we're in a we you

know we're definitely in a crisis in

this country where we do have the big

money interests that are in control of

the government so that is becoming more

and more obvious to people where the the

politicians you know the political class

the people in government they're not

actually working on behalf of the

American people anymore they don't care

about what we think they just do what

Their donors tell them to do and we're

seeing this infiltration in our

government uh well it's been there for a

while but it's becoming more obvious I

think people are pointing it out more

like the influence of Israel and the

Israel Lobby on the United States

government how they're just doing

anything and everything for this foreign

Middle Eastern country rather than

what's best for the American people

we've got crumbling infrastructure we've

got homelessness we have an opioid

crisis we've got all of these terrible

things happening people riddled in debt

uh people living paycheck to paycheck

we've got all these problems uh and our

you and our political leaders they just

care about creating more war you've got

Lindsey Graham you know on Fox News

every day U war war it's a beautiful

sight to see I love war basically is

what he's proclaiming Nick Haley signing

bombs you've got all so there's

definitely now this breakdown though a

lot of people will point to the

breakdown and they'll say this happened

with the creation of the FED in 1910

1917 around that in the 1910s they'll

say then

that uh it furthered with like citizens

united where we allowed the the flooding

of money into the political system that

taking us off the gold standard was

another one and allowing the banks to

just print endless amounts money that

there were these things that happened in

the 20th century where you know a series

of events throughout those hundred years

that have led us to where we are today

but prior to that point people would say

that America was was maybe run more by

the people that it was you know we've

seen this co-opting happen but prior to

that you know when you look at the

founding fathers and their vision for

America now obviously things were not

perfect because we still had slavery and

three fifths of people and you know

whatever but taking but with all of that

then being reversed people being the you

know a democratic people and a federal

republic that the idea is that the

people and the states would then run

they were the people would be the ones

making the decisions not the people

necessarily on a federal level because

we are a federal republic so the States

run the feds the federal government but

on a state level on a local level the

idea is the individuals the citizens

would vote and have control over their

representatives if we don't like the

representatives we vote them out we

replace them we could vote on

referendums we can you know make

decisions and that would be the people

controlling the government and not the

government being controlled by these big

money interests so how would you say

socialism as an ideology as you've

explained it how that's any different

than the idea of democracy from the

founding father's perspective

while you've hit the nail on the head

Kim the way that we refer to it is that

socialism communism is americanism in

our current uh conjuncture and that was

a slogan that the Communist Party the

old one when it was actually communist

put forth in the 20th century they said

communism is 20th century americanism

and one of the things that I paused in

the new book and that has been Central

for the line of Marxism leninism that we

uphold is that if you're faithful to the

ideals of

1776 if you're faithful to the ideals

uttered by uh Abraham Lincoln in the

Gettysburg Address of government of buy

and for the people you cannot be in

favor of what we have right now which is

government of buy and for big

corporations investment firms like Black

Rock and State Street and big Banks uh

if you want actual government of buy and

for the people and I think this isn't a

very radical idea it's something that

most Americans accept as common sense

and they identify with what it means to

be American I'm sorry but our position

is that it's only really socialism that

can accomplish that that can make it

real that could give it some form of

actuality for us therefore socialism is

not a break with the traditions of the

American ideals on the contrary it's uh

the making explicit of something that

has always been implicit in the ideals

upon which this country was founded and

in that sense we break completely with

the entity that calls itself the left in

the US which is deeply anti-American

they look at the the evil parts of

America slavery you know the treatment

of the uh Native populations the

imperialist wars of the 20th century and

they get that one component of this

larger hole they reduce the larger hole

to this one component and that is

fundamentally for us a form of thinking

that is anti-marxist marxists are are

able to think uh of the world in the

processes in which it existed and if the

world has contradictions we have to T

with those we have to engage with those

and the reality is that America like

every other nation is shaped by these

struggles by these opposite polls polls

that do very good things like fight

against slavery fight against

imperialism fight for workers rights and

polls that do the complete opposite and

this tension this Dynamic this dialectic

is Central to what it means uh to be

America and I think that the progressive

poll is the one that defines America

more so than the poll that is uh being

left behind for me for instance uh

someone like Martin Luther King Jr is

far more American than the apide system

that he helped with the Civil Rights

Movement overthrow so you're absolutely

right for us these ideas are simply the

logical and practical conclusion of

having a faithful commitment to the

American

ideals okay but when people think of

socialism they think of

handouts so where does that come into

play is that something that's actually

in the theory of Socialism or is

socialism just the people choose the

people control the people decide and if

the people decide to do that and to

create systems of you know so socialized

systems or handout systems let's say I

don't know what term we want to use uh

then so be it but if they if the people

get together and they don't choose that

then they don't so be that too I mean

which is

it well it's definitely not handouts I

mean you can look at most of the leaders

of the 20th century communist movement

and quite explicitly you can find quotes

that if you don't work you don't eat now

of course there's people that for

reasons of being retired or disabled uh

there needs to be some sort of social

safety net there to help them out but if

you're a capable individual you have to

work and the motto in the stage of

socialism is from each according uh to

their capacity to each according to

their work you get what you work for and

I think that's a very American idea what

I am uh fully against is uh the

parasitism that we see in our current

conjuncture where a small group of

people who literally do no work who

produce nothing uh valuable for society

take all the loot and keep us all

immiserated in debt slavery with debts

will'll never be able to pay off that is

not only unamerican but in a very common

sense uh form it's it's the downfall of

civilization itself all throughout

civilization when debts that weren't

able to be paid back were accured they

simply just weren't paid back and the

situation that we're in is H one that I

think the vast majority of Americans

agree is uh is not on the right track

and it's breaking with the ideals that

they they consider to be common sense uh

look we have to realize that the same

class the same people whose interest it

was to lie to us about covid to lie to

us about the proxy war against Russia to

lie to us about Israel and about the

current situation in Palestine it's

these same people who control not only

the uh news media but who control the

education that were fed who control

what's told to us in history books who

control the Ed uh entertainment industry

and it's this same class of individual

ual who have a vested interest in making

the American people whose ideals are

more aligned with socialism than any

nation in the history of the planet and

this is not just me saying it lennin

himself admitted that the ideals of the

American Republic are the easiest to

transition into socialism because

socialism is already implicit in it but

it's this class that has completely

turned the world upside down uh uh lied

to you about everything and if we're the

sorts of individuals that can see how

they lie to us about Co Ukraine

Palestine Etc why wouldn't we extend

that critical lens if we know they have

a vested interest in line with us let's

examine examine critically what they

tell us about the history of Communism

let's examine critically what they tell

us about socialism and I think that what

we would find if we go to the theory

itself or if we go to the reality is

that the vast majority of things that

were told about communism and socialism

are myths are myths by people who have a

vested interest in US believing these

lies in order to continue buying into a

system that not only doesn't represent

the people but is fundamentally anti-am

American while using quotes from

previous American presidents and a sort

of super patriotism that is fully tongue

and cheek if you're a real Patriot if

you're someone who actually loves the

American people who identifies with the

progressive traditions of America I find

it very difficult for you not to be some

form of socialist or communist I myself

come to the position of being a

communist because I was a patriot

because I didn't like uh the sort of uh

wretched presence of affluence and and

despair and and and and poverty that was

available to me to see at a very young

age in South Florida it's that absurdity

that irrationality that uh develops a

strong patriotic sentiment in me from a

very young age and that naturally gets

translated into the idea that it's

really only communism a society that

serves Society itself where it's

actually Society of by and for the

people that aligns with my values as an

American that aligns with values that

uphold you know creating the conditions

so that every human being as individuals

can flourish in a harmonious

relationship with our nation with our

communities so it's we're lied to about

socialism because it's in the vested

interest of the same people that lie to

us about everything else to lie to us

about that they tell us socialism means

poverty well the three major advances in

the history of humanity have all been

from socialist countries it was the

period of collectivization in the USSR

uh that brought about at that moment the

fastest uh growth any country in human

history had ever seen and then uh you

have the period of the founding of the

People's Republic of China from 1949 to

78 in just 29 years life expectancy went

up 32 years so that means that every

single year the life expectancy of the

people went up by more than one year

human history had never seen anything

like that and then after that period in

the period of Reform and opening up from

17 1978 towards now we've seen the

largest and quickest development of uh

of the productive forces of of of

economic development in China that we've

ever seen in history so the three

quickest periods of development in human

history have come from communist

countries countries led by a Communist

Party how are you going to tell me that

socialism means poverty why because

small Cuba that's 90 miles away under

the nose of the US that has been

strangled by sanctions and a horrendous

uh blockade that has had all forms of

hybrid Warfare waged against it with

chemical warfare

waged against it with assassination

attempts on presidents uh with uh the

funding of through the color Revolution

doctrine of groups internally that can

descent against the government why

because Cuba's poor and it's a small

country that's blocked off by the whole

uh from the whole world by the US in a

way that the whole world condemns it now

we hold that socialism means poverty

absolutely not uh the countries that

have grown the most in human history

have been socialists and everything that

we're the major lies that we're told

about uh socialism are easily disproven

by both looking at what the leaders of

uh of of of Marxism Marx angles Lennon

Stalin mauo have said but also by

looking at the reality of 20th and 21st

century socialism yeah okay um I mean I

certainly have my my thoughts but I want

to I want to go back to something you

just said before we get more into the

ideology and breaking that down let's

get into the parasites that you're

talking about that are causing the issue

here in the United States So when you

say that there's this sort of parasitic

culture that is causing you know there's

the working class and then there's this

this other group what jobs in particular

how are these people you know what when

you're saying this who specifically are

you talking about are you talking about

like the Wall Street guys the bankers

the investors like which group of people

are making a lot of money off of not

doing

anything uh yeah Wall Street guys the

investors uh people in some people in

Silicon Valley like the sort of people

well Michael Hudson for instance in a in

a recent paper he mentioned that 92% of

the profits made by Fortune 500

companies a lot of which are American uh

are reinvested in stock BuyBacks right

this is not money that's being made and

used to develop the economy to fix our

crumbling infrastructure to build new

cities as China has done to fix our

crumbling cities this is money being

used to make money without producing

anything in between and uh this is the

sort of interest that controls

everything and the what little bit of

productive industry we have they also

own it they're shareholders and so it's

investment groups like Black Rock

Vanguard State Street and all the other

ones that the American people it doesn't

matter whether they consider themselves

to be on the right or left know about

now these are the people that control

our country its trajectory they decide

when we go to war who we go to war with

they decide if we export all productive

jobs over in order to pay workers abroad

Pennies on the dollar of what American

workers make they decide if our families

have to be burdened by debt because

someone dared to get an education or

because someone got sick and didn't have

insurance or because someone dared to

have something so crazy as a home for

their family then they have the audacity

often to speak about family values what

family values they push ideology in

schools that are fundamentally

individualistic and anti family and

anti-k kids often and then on the other

side they do economic everything

possible to destroy the material

Foundation upon which the uh security

and comfort of families would be

premised so it's it's it's a group of

people that is fundamentally

anti-American and as to the question you

mentioned period previously yes there's

these different uh periods where it

intensifies the creation of the FED uh

the moving away from the gold standard

uh citizens united those are all moments

in a larger trajectory and our point is

that we have to look at the larger

system right if you have a situation

like you have today

where you look at Congress and you

realize that every politician is bought

out you can then sit there and say wow

how was it that we had the bad luck to

have uh you know uh every single

Congress person be a corrupt individual

you have to think a little bit more

critically and say well maybe there's

something systemic at play here and

that's what we're doing all of these

moments it's not a coincidence that that

they exist you know they don't just pop

up arbitrarily they're part of this

larger system that puts as the most

Supreme value the most important thing

in society the accumul

of capital over and above the interests

of the nation Traditional Values

families and workingclass people upon

whose work that creation of wealth is

premised okay but if you were to

eradicate it entirely when are you

talking about so we're specifically the

capitalist system a person and investors

is able to go and or a group can go and

invest and build you know invest in

something basically just give money then

that person can be productive now I

understand that we've then created a

system on top of that like you're saying

stock BuyBacks and there's other things

that are no longer really an investment

in production it's one thing to lend

somebody money to build a business right

they're building something productive

the idea though is that you would give

them that money not so that they could

just become productive and you don't

benefit I mean certainly I would want to

benefit if I'm gonna if you come to me

Carlos and you say I want to start a

business Kim I need so much money and I

give you that money my expect a as I get

a cut back my that's going to be my and

I think that's a reasonable expectation

do you not agree with that oh absolutely

and the thing is here again if you go

back to the theory people get passages

from marks and Engles where they talk

about communism as the abolition of

private property they divorce it from

the context in which it's being uttered

you can't understand something if you

don't understand the factors that gave

rise to the fact itself you wouldn't

trust a boxing judge that showed up to

the 12th round to judge the whole fight

so why do we take statements and divorce

it from the context the context that

produces statements such as the

communism is the abolition of private

property are rooted in a specific

understanding of private property as

capital specifically as big Capital that

creates a society in which the whole

purpose of society is accumulating

Capital we're not even against uh

personal property we're not against

private property we're against a system

that upholds that interest of capital

accumulation to the level of Supremacy

so yes you can have uh small businesses

medium-sized businesses big businesses

as China has as the Soviet Union had in

the period of the new economic program

as yugos socialist Yugoslavia had you

can have those businesses but if Society

is structured such that those interests

are made to serve society and not

Society serve the interests of the

accumulation of a few small group of

people then you have socialism that's

all we're saying not that we want to

abolish uh the the the property of the

capitalist class what we're saying is if

you're actually interested in a

government of by and for the people the

economy our politics everything should

not be governed by these interests and

as soon as you switch towards governing

Society on the basis of serving Society

itself and the people you have a

socialist system even if you have

capitalism or Capital within it okay I

guess what I'm specifically asking is

are you talking about abolishing the

system of lending and

investing not necessarily it depends on

what's for instance the what are the

conditionalities of lending like China

has with the Shanghai cooperation

organization uh and breaks now with the

new development bank there's still

lending right but the conditionality of

lending is that that lending cannot be

done for the sake of paying back other

debts uh and uh it also has to be used

for the development of productive

industry so of course you can continue

uh lending but that lending has to be

premised on the development of the real

economy because that serves

Society okay so the lending has to be

productive lending so you can't do this

sort of um like we recently saw the

crash in Japan for example and a lot of

that was because you had a lot of

international people or entities taking

cheap Chinese yen uh they were borrowing

that money at a really low rate they

were taking that money and instead of

making it productive for Japan for

example they weren't investing it in

Japan they were taking those the cheap

Yen and they were then taking it they

were investing even more with that it to

get even they were actually using it to

get even more money so it wasn't you

know it was like and then of course it

all collapsed and that's what that's

kind of what we saw just recently so it

wasn't so you're and this is actually

something that um Economist Richard

Werner who's been on the show a couple

of times is a fantastic Economist his

and he's actually the Creator the father

of quantitative easing but his complaint

about quantitative easing which has a

very you know people demonize it a lot

now because it's like the printing of

money C says well they did it wrong

because what they did it for like for

example when they printed a lot of money

and gave it to the American people

during the covid crisis it was for

consumption it wasn't for production and

his point was you should only do

quantitative easing for production

you've got to you've got to give money

for production not for consumption or

not for investment like what they were

you know like what we see the investment

class doing so you're saying in a

socialist or even a communist society

that the there would still be lending

and there would still be investment it

would just be for production something

productive towards Society so it would

be for a family to buy a home it would

be for people to buy cars it would be

for people to start

businesses those types of things but it

couldn't be money the the system The

Current financial industry which they

make extremely complicated and

unobtainable to the average person that

you're saying that system would be

gone absolutely and that phrase that you

used making money from money it has a

name it's called usury and it's uh

absolutely condemned by most major uh

religions and somehow people that are

participating in these practices

continue to have the audacity to call

themselves uh Christians um no

absolutely I mean we we can look at

China like uh if if we were having this

conversation in the turn of the 20th

century it would be a little bit more

hypothetical but now it's not really

that hypothetical we can look at China

and China does have its National Bank

that lends out for the sake of

developing the economy you know not

necessarily for the sake of just making

more and more and more money no it's for

the sake of developing the economy and

as a party one of our Central

initiatives that might seem quite

heterodox is promoting small businesses

helping small businesses get bigger and

bigger we have party businesses we

encourage our clubs to start businesses

we're not uh this this this uh

caricature that has been created by the

uh by by the American media and the

American Elite in order to confuse the

American people that Communists are out

for your toothbrush for your car for

your house no it's completely the

opposite in the sort of society that we

would like to create the average

American is going to have more property

they're going to be wealthier they're

going to have more abundance so that

they can live the sorts of lives that

allow them to flourish so that they have

more socially available free time to do

creative things and do whatever they

feel like doing makes them uh whatever

they feel like makes them feel like a

genuine you know real human being while

doing it not slavishly working at a job

for 8 to 10 hours to pay bills to to to

people who fundamentally do nothing um

and make a whole lot of money from doing

that nothing hey guys this was just a

clip of a longer show catch the full

show by going to Kim Iverson show.com it

is free it airs Monday through Friday

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could go back now and watch this full

interview I highly recommend it again go

to Kim Iverson show.com thank you so

much for watching