Kapil Sibal Reveals How Electoral Bonds Were A Scheme To Fund the BJP Big Time
Summary
TLDRIn a heated debate, Mr. Cil, a former law minister and current parliament member, discusses the recent judgment declaring electoral bonds unconstitutional. He argues that the bonds were not about transparency but a means for corporates to fund the BJP, potentially leading to quid pro quo. The conversation touches on the rampant scale of cash and carry politics, the need for electoral reforms, and the implications of the judgment on political funding transparency.
Takeaways
- ๐ The discussion revolves around the Electoral Bond scheme in India, which has been declared unconstitutional, and its implications on transparency in political funding.
- ๐ผ The speaker, Mr. Cil, argues that the Electoral Bond scheme was not designed to eliminate cash in politics but to enrich the ruling party, BJP, through corporate funding.
- ๐ฆ It is suggested that the scheme allowed for corporates to give money to the BJP without disclosure, potentially leading to a 'quid pro quo' situation where favors are exchanged for funding.
- ๐ก Mr. Cil proposes a solution where corporate funding for elections is transparent, with the Election Commission distributing funds to parties proportionally based on their parliamentary strength.
- ๐ซ The fear expressed is that without electoral reforms, cash and carry politics could worsen, especially if large donations are not properly regulated.
- ๐ค There is a debate about whether the Electoral Bond scheme was intended to bring transparency or was a means to favor the ruling party financially.
- ๐ Mr. Cil claims that the amendments to the Companies Act and the Income Tax Act were designed to allow loss-making companies to contribute to the BJP without tax implications or disclosure.
- ๐ The Supreme Court's judgment is highlighted as a call for transparency, with the expectation that contributions above a certain amount will now be disclosed.
- ๐ฐ The speaker alleges that the BJP has amassed a significant amount of funds through the Electoral Bond scheme, creating an uneven playing field for other parties.
- ๐ณ๏ธ Concerns are raised about the potential misuse of the scheme to target opposition parties while protecting the ruling party from scrutiny.
- ๐ The interview concludes with the speaker expressing satisfaction over the court's decision but cautioning that further action is needed to ensure fair elections and prevent political corruption.
Q & A
What is the main concern raised by the guest about the Electoral Bond scheme?
-The guest is concerned that the Electoral Bond scheme could lead to a resurgence of 'cash and carry' politics and create an uneven playing field due to the lack of electoral reforms and transparency.
What does the guest argue about the current state of 'cash and carry' politics in the country?
-The guest argues that 'cash and carry' politics is already rampant and is not necessarily tied to cash transactions, but rather to the influence of corporate funding in politics.
According to the guest, what is the actual purpose of the Electoral Bond scheme?
-The guest believes that the Electoral Bond scheme is not about elections but rather about enriching the party in power and creating a bond between the corporate sector and the ruling party.
What is the guest's view on the spending limit for an MP and an MLA during an election?
-The guest mentions that an MP can spend a maximum of 95 lakhs and an MLA can spend a maximum of 45 lakhs during an election, emphasizing that the large sums of money received through electoral bonds cannot be spent in cash.
What solution does the guest propose to make politics cleaner in the context of electoral funding?
-The guest suggests that corporates should fund elections, and the Election Commission of India should distribute the funds equally among parties in power, ensuring transparency and preventing any single party from being targeted.
How does the guest respond to the argument that the BJP received a disproportionate share of electoral bonds because it is the largest party?
-The guest argues that the disproportionate share received by the BJP is due to the corporate sector's desire to bond with the party in power and not necessarily because of the party's size or ruling status.
What is the guest's opinion on the potential impact of making corporate donations transparent?
-The guest believes that making corporate donations transparent could lead to more corporate funding for the opposition if the fear of disclosure is removed, but also expresses concern about potential misuse of this transparency by the party in power.
What does the guest claim about the amendments made to the Companies Act and their implications?
-The guest claims that the amendments allowed even loss-making companies to contribute unlimited amounts to political parties, which was intended to favor the ruling party through opaque funding mechanisms.
What is the guest's stance on the role of the corporate sector in funding political parties?
-The guest is critical of the corporate sector's role in funding political parties, suggesting that it leads to a conflict of interest and potential corruption, with the corporate sector seeking favors in return for their funding.
How does the guest view the potential outcomes of the Supreme Court's judgment on electoral bonds?
-The guest is skeptical about the effectiveness of the judgment in curbing corruption, fearing that it may be used to target opposition parties while the ruling party continues to benefit from undisclosed corporate funding.
Outlines
๐๏ธ Debate on Electoral Bonds and Cash Politics
In this segment, the guest, Mr. Cil, a former law minister and current member of parliament, discusses the implications of a recent judgment on electoral bonds. The conversation revolves around the fear that without electoral reforms, cash politics could intensify. Mr. Cil argues that cash and carry politics are already rampant and that electoral bonds, which were declared unconstitutional, do not address the issue of cash in politics. Instead, he suggests that these bonds are a means for corporate entities to bond with the ruling party, enriching the party's resources for activities unrelated to elections. He also refutes the notion that the bonds ensure a level playing field in elections, stating that they create an unfair advantage for the ruling party due to the substantial funding they can attract.
๐ผ Corporate Funding and Political Bias
This paragraph delves into the relationship between corporate funding and political parties, particularly the BJP. Mr. Cal suggests that the corporate sector is wary of disclosing their contributions due to potential backlash. He argues that the amendments to the Companies Act and the Income Tax Act were designed to favor the BJP, allowing for unlimited contributions from even loss-making companies and exempting these contributions from tax disclosure. Mr. Cal claims that the intent behind the electoral bond scheme was to ensure substantial corporate funding for the BJP, rather than to eliminate cash in politics. The discussion also touches on the potential for quid pro quo relationships between corporate donors and the ruling party, suggesting that transparency in funding could expose such arrangements.
๐ Electoral Reforms and the Impact of Judicial Ruling
In the final paragraph, the focus shifts to the broader issue of electoral reforms and the impact of the recent judicial ruling on the electoral bond scheme. Mr. Cal expresses skepticism about the effectiveness of the ruling in curbing corruption or ensuring transparency, as he believes it will not prevent quid pro quo arrangements. He proposes a solution where corporate funding for elections is channeled through the Election Commission of India and distributed equally among parties in power, regardless of the number of seats they hold. This, he believes, would prevent targeting of opposition parties and ensure a more level playing field. The conversation concludes with Mr. Cal expressing concern that the ruling may be used to target opposition parties while protecting those in power.
Mindmap
Keywords
๐กCash and Carry Politics
๐กElectoral Bonds
๐กSupreme Court Judgment
๐กTransparency
๐กCorporate Funding
๐กQuid Pro Quo
๐กNon-level Playing Field
๐กState Funding of Elections
๐กIncome Tax Amendment
๐กRepresentation of the People Act
Highlights
Historic judgment on enhancing voters' right to know and concerns over the return of cash and carry politics without electoral reforms.
Discussion on the assumption of no cash and carry politics currently and the potential for it to worsen without electoral bonds.
Cash and Carry politics happening rampantly and its irrelevance to the elimination of cash, as per the Supreme Court judgment.
Electoral bonds being a misnomer, as they are not directly related to elections but rather to corporate bonding with the ruling party.
The disproportionate share of electoral bonds received by the BJP due to its position as the country's largest party.
The possibility of quid pro quo when corporates fund the political party in power.
The increase in BJP's funding through electoral bonds post the scheme's implementation.
Concerns about the transparency of electoral bonds and the potential for corruption.
The need for electoral reforms to ensure a level playing field in politics.
Proposal for corporate sector funding of elections through the Election Commission for equal distribution among parties.
The fear of corporates disclosing their names when funding political parties and the implications for opposition parties.
The assumption that the electoral bond scheme was designed to encourage corporate funding by check.
The amendments made to the Companies Act and Income Tax Act to facilitate corporate funding of the BJP.
The potential for the Electoral Bond scheme to be used for targeting opposition parties rather than promoting transparency.
The expectation that disclosures from the electoral bond scheme will expose quid pro quo arrangements.
Concerns over the control of the Enforcement Directorate and its impact on the fairness of the electoral bond disclosures.
The conclusion that the judgment on electoral bonds being unconstitutional is a significant victory for transparency advocates.
Transcripts
our first guest tonight is someone who
appeared in this uh major case senior
Advocate former law Minister and still a
member of parliament couple Cil is
joining me I appreciate uh you joining
us Mr Cil most legal observers are
calling it a historic
judgment enhancing the voters right to
know but the fear is that cash and carry
politics could be back in the absence of
electoral reforms that the recipe in a
way could be even worse now that
electoral bonds have been declared
unconstitutional well two responses to
that number one uh is it your assumption
that there is no cash and carry politics
nowadays when you when you when you when
you bring people from other parties and
uh induct them in your party do you
think they they are paid any by by check
for doing that no but that's exactly it
the cash will be that's exactly
so it'll get worse it'll get worse in
the absence of electoral bonds let let
me answer let me if you if you if you if
you just let me answer yes you know be a
little patient yes right so I said
number one Cash and Carry politics is
happening at a rampant scale rampant
scale even today so this is nothing to
do with cash and carry and it's not
something that I say it's what the
Supreme Court has said in its judgment
that this has nothing to do with
elimination of cash right and why have
they said so because this money is given
by check and with this check money it
has nothing to do with elections
remember this when a member of
parliament fights an election the
maximum he can spend is 95 lakhs when an
MLA fights an election the maximum he
can spend his 45 lakhs now he explains
that in the course of his election to
the officers of the election commission
now this money that they got and it's
over
6,566 cres since 2008 18 is white money
they can't spend it in cash so this is
white money which they used for their
party what does that mean they use this
for building their offices they use this
for building the RSS offices they use
this for having this connectivity
Network all over India this is to enrich
the party this has nothing to do with
elections in fact electoral bonds is a
misnomer because this has nothing to do
with elections it's something to do with
the bonding of the corporate sector with
the Govern with with with the BJP that's
all that it is so where do you on what
assumption do you say that this
eliminates cash in fact what it does is
it enriches the party to do what it
likes and it's a non-level playing field
and therefore free and fair elections is
not possible in this country with this
kind of money no I I spoke to a a BJP
functionary who said that look the BJP
may have got a disproportionate share of
electoral uh bonds but that's because
the BJP is the country's largest party
is the ruling party uh corporates will
give Monies to parties that are most
likely to win elections was the argument
being made so you know when you throw at
numbers when you let them give so what's
the benefit you believe of today's
judgment we have uh so when when big
corporates give money to the political
party in power they ultimately do it and
the the court also said that possibility
there's a possibility of a quid proo so
when we know which corporates has given
money to the BJP we'll find out what the
quit proo is this is pure corruption
nothing short of that and the Prime
Minister keeps on saying where are the
scams of the BJP where are the scams of
the BJP here is a scam that stares you
in the face and you say that no scams
have been disc discovered the rest of
course are under the carpet yet to be
discovered fact of the matter is this
has nothing to do with elections this
has nothing to do with cash it is
something to ensure that the BJP has so
much money remember in 2017 18 BJP got a
contribution of 210 crores when the
scheme was implemented in
201819 they got immediately a
contribution of
1,450 crores and in 201920 when the Lo
SAA took place it was
2555 cres how could any political party
match the kind of money that they made
through these electoral bonds no the the
political the corporates gave money
through electoral bonds because they
were hopeful that these uh as a result
their identity would not be disclosed
one of the reasons that corporates have
feared giving money especially to the
opposition is that the moment their
identity is disclosed they could be
targeted now the fear some have is the
opposition will have even fewer sources
of funding because the moment you made
it now let's assume that you have a new
system where the amounts are disclosed
more corporate will give it to the
opposition
if one second when a member incidentally
corporates have have given to state
governments where the opposition is in
power under this very scheme yes now the
point that I'm making to you is the
following corporates are afraid are
afraid that when they give the money
their names will be disclosed their
entities will be disclosed why should
they be afraid if they want to openly
support a party they should openly
support that party and say we want to
give money to this party but the fact of
the matter is the a corporate sector
will give money to the Congress it will
give money to another Poli itical party
and they'll give disproportionate money
to the BJP right because the BJP is the
center and they need favors from the
political party on a daily basis so this
is the bonding of the corporate sector
with the political party in power it's
nothing to do with electoral bonds yes
sir but the point Mr Cal is that when
let's assume you were in the UPA
government the assumption is the UPA
also got a disproportionate share of
money because you were in par corporates
will give money through check or through
electoral bonds to the the party in part
we didn't have a scheme like that no but
my point we didn't I'm sorry sir if you
have a scheme sir my limited point to
you is this the real question is the
real elephant in the room is electoral
reforms in the absence of electoral
reforms yes electoral bonds needed to be
transparent no doubt about that I'm
asking you what's the solution do you
really believe this will make our
politics in some way a little bit more
cleaner Raj
put me in government and I'll give you
the solution let me give you one
solution let the corporate sector fund
elections right and the money that is
collected by the election commission of
India should be distributed all through
the State Bank should be distributed in
equal proportion to the parties in power
in Parliament so everybody is funded and
nobody can be targeted no you're going
back you're going back to some kind of a
state funding for going back to some
kind of state funding when you say that
no not State funding corporate funding
again corate don't understand what I'm
saying one second if you fing on the Bas
of proportion it's not State funding if
the BJP gets 350 seats and the
opposition gets 100 does the BJP get
three times more money or not yes
yes that's right that and rightly so
because they got more seats and then
nobody can be targeted I'm giving you a
solution you want a solution I'm giving
you a solution mhm but the problem is
you don't want that solution you want to
enrich yourself mhm and that's the
problem and remember I mean may I just
say this to you because you you are you
are an entity uh you're a a channel
which is funded ultimately by by
entities and and you know you know
Industries is is in control of these
channels so what happens is the
corporate sector funds the BJP the BJP
returns that funds in some way through
form of of advertisements to the very
Channel which has funded the BJP so you
remember this this is very this is a
very serious issue and let's not make a
mockery and make an argument that no no
no this will increase use of cash as if
there is no cash happening what
incidentally I want to ask you this is
nothing to do with cash this is white
funding and what they let them show that
they used it in the election they'll
never be able to show
it Mr s it has nothing to do with the
election please first you you clarify to
me that assumption okay Mr Cal you've
said that there is a scam here there
will be corporates who will say look
when the Electoral Bond scheme was
devised by your friend the late Arun
jley it was devised to try and bring
transparency or encourage corporates to
give money no no just a minute to give
money by check it was designed to give
encourage corporates to give money by
check as it turned out the system was
opaque and led perhaps to many many to
believe many of us to believe that it
was heavily biased in favor of the
government now the scheme is being
scrapped in your view in your view Mr
Simple I wanted to know specifically
what according to you is the scam
involved the scam is complete and I'll
tell you why when amendments were
carried out in the companies act prior
to this uh before the Amendments took
place the law was that any company which
is making a profit sh can contribute up
to 7 and a half% of its average profit
in the last 3 years to the political
party no problem now they they changed
all that and said that even a loss
making company can contribute as much as
it likes to the political party in power
and the 7 and a half cap limit percent
cap was done away with so you could
contribute any amount of money right
what do you think this was done for the
purposes of ensuring that there is no
cash or do you think it was done for the
purposes of ensuring that corporate
sector funds the BJP big time because
they were in power I'm just giving you
one example and so there was then an
income tax amendment to the income tax
act saying that you don't have to
disclose it as part of your income so
you don't pay tax on it and number two
they amended the representation of
people act saying that because it is
over 20 20 20,000 rupees the you don't
have to tell the election Commissioners
to who funded it if I give a check of
20,000 rupees today I can uh to a
political party
and do don't do it through the Electoral
bond process that 20,000 rupes will be
disclosed by the election commission it
will come on their website I'll have to
show who gave who gave the money but
this was all done to have the corporate
sector fund the BJP let's not make no
bones about it that was the intent of
the scheme the scheme was not to get rid
of cash as you are saying but that's an
assumption that you are Mak without
making without any basis it was a scheme
to fund the BJP and they were successful
in amassing 6,000
6566 crores during this period of time
since 2018 okay can I and and yet you
are asking me questions that the
Assumption was to clean up the system
okay I want to therefore ask you in
conclusion Mr sial what next all the
disclosures are to be made uh uh SBI has
to give it to the election commission
which has to put it on their website do
you believe this will expose the quid
proos that you believe are at the heart
of this scheme are you confident of that
of course it has to happen because
nobody I that's the that's in fact a
comment that the Supreme Court has made
in its judgment that nobody no you see
less than 20,000 rupees there's no
question of any quit proo MH above
20,000 rupees non-electoral bonds no
question of quit proo but when there are
electoral bonds where the contributions
are 2 cres 3 cres 5 cres 10 cres 15 cres
obviously you can make a phone call can
get access to the minister you can get
an easy meeting you can get you know put
so you're telling me it's obvious I mean
I you know we are not we we not babes in
the wood we are not babes in the wood
that we don't know what this is all
about okay so you're confident that as a
result of these disclosures the various
quit Pro over the last 5 years will come
out and therefore you believe that's the
real value in a way of this judgment am
I
correct no but they may well come out
but the Ed will not do nothing about it
because it happens to be quick proo of
the party in power and I'm afraid they
will go against those those opposition
governments where they may they may
allege and equit proo and get the Ed
after them so therefore what's going to
happen is long as the
Ed uh is not controlled as long as this
pmla and the disaster which which which
which has resulted in the powers of the
under the PML of the Ed unless that is
dealt with I think that we will have
another uh you know we this this
judgment will be used in fact for just
the for for targeting again the
opposition people let's leave it there
let's wait and see how that plays out
but for now you have reason to be
satisfied that uh your battle in a way
to try and make the Electoral Bond
system uh more transparent and indeed as
the court has now ruled unconstitutional
you won that big battle thank you very
much couple sible for joining
us
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