The India Alternative | Can Germany and Europe Embrace It

Summary

In a thought-provoking discussion, panelists explore the global leadership void and Europe's role in the changing world order. They debate Europe's economic reliance on China and the need for a more assertive stance, considering the rise of India and other emerging economies. The conversation touches on the importance of critical thinking, the influence of Western media, and the necessity for a more inclusive global governance that reflects current realities, including technological partnerships and the shifting dynamics of power.

Takeaways

• 🌏 The speaker believes that Europe is not betting on the rise of new global actors like India, and instead is anchored to China's future.
• 🔄 Europe is criticized for not being expeditionary enough and for not exploring new opportunities in different parts of the world, preferring to play safe.
• 📈 The speaker highlights India's growth at 8% and attributes it to the hard work and long hours put in by its people, contrasting this with the perceived lack of growth in Europe.
• 💭 There is a call for Europe to develop a critical thinking identity that matches its economic power and to stop following others' leads.
• 🚀 The speaker anticipates India's economy growing from $4 trillion to $10 trillion in the next 10 years, offering opportunities for Europe to diversify away from China.
• 🤝 The Munich Security Conference 2024 focused on the need to include the global South and addressed the UN General Assembly vote's reflection on global dissatisfaction with the current world order.
• 🔗 The conference recognized a common frustration among countries abstaining from key votes, feeling disadvantaged by the current global order and its rules.
• 🌐 The speaker argues for a reset in global governance, suggesting that the G20 is becoming more important than the G7 and that new voices from the global South should be included.
• 🛑 The UN Security Council is viewed as a continuation of a colonial project, with the speaker advocating for its reform to better represent the current world population and power dynamics.
• 💼 The IMF report is cited to emphasize that nearly 60% of global growth is from developing and emerging countries, indicating a need for these countries to have a greater say in global financial flows.
• 🤝 The speaker suggests that partnerships in technology, defense, and AI could be beneficial, particularly highlighting the potential of an India-EU partnership.

Q & A

What is the main concern expressed by Mr. Sarin about Europe's economic strategy?

Mr. Sarin expresses concern that Europe is too reliant on China and not exploring new opportunities in other parts of the world, particularly India, which is growing rapidly.

What does Mr. Sarin suggest as a reason for Europe's lack of growth?

He suggests that Europe's lack of growth may be due to a cultural tendency to 'take two months off every year', implying a less work-intensive approach compared to countries like India.

What does Mr. Sarin identify as the main resource Europe is lacking?

Mr. Sarin believes that Europe is lacking not in critical minerals, but in critical thinking, which is necessary to define and shape the future.

What does Mr. Sarin propose as a solution for Europe's 'China addiction'?

He proposes that Europe should diversify and start betting on other emerging economies like India, which is moving from a $4 trillion to a $10 trillion economy in the next 10 years.

What was the main focus of the Munich Security Conference 2024 according to Benedict Franka?

The Munich Security Conference 2024 focused on the need to include the global South and address the concerns of countries that feel disadvantaged by the current global order.

What does Benedict Franka suggest is a common frustration among the global South?

Benedict Franka suggests that the global South shares a common frustration with the current global order, feeling that it does not work for them and structurally disadvantages them.

What does Mr. Sarin argue about the UN Security Council?

Mr. Sarin argues that the UN Security Council represents a continuation of a colonial project and needs to be reformed or dismantled to allow for a more equitable global governance.

What does Mr. Sarin believe should be done with the P5 (Permanent Five members of the UN Security Council)?

Mr. Sarin believes that the P5 should be 'pensioned off' or retired, and that new voices and faces should be included to better represent the current global landscape.

What does Benedict Franka suggest as a way to address the concerns of the global South?

Benedict Franka suggests creating partnerships and expanding the current system to include more countries, making global governance mechanisms more attractive to the global South.

What does Mr. Sarin see as a problem with Europe's approach to China?

Mr. Sarin sees a problem with Europe's 'China addiction', suggesting that Europe is not willing to change its business practices with China despite growing security concerns.

What does Benedict Franka believe is necessary for a true transatlantic partnership?

Benedict Franka believes that a true transatlantic partnership on technology is necessary, rather than competing with each other, which he sees as a mistake.

Outlines

00:00

🌏 Global Leadership and Economic Dependence

The speaker discusses the perception that Europe and Germany are being awaited to resume their global leadership roles. However, they argue that Europe's businesses are too entrenched in China to seek new opportunities elsewhere, despite the continent's potential. The speaker emphasizes the importance of critical thinking and identity for Europe, suggesting that Europe needs to recognize and capitalize on the growth of India and other emerging economies. They also touch on the challenges of seasonal business in Europe and the need for a more global perspective.

05:01

🏛️ Critique of the Current Global Order

This paragraph delves into the dissatisfaction with the existing global order, particularly from the perspective of countries that feel disadvantaged by it. The speaker points out the double standards and the lack of representation in the formation of global rules, which have led to a common frustration among many nations. They also discuss the need for a new narrative and the importance of including voices from the global South, such as India, in reshaping the global architecture.

10:01

📈 Economic Growth and Financial Flows

The speaker highlights the significant contribution of developing and emerging economies to global growth, emphasizing that these regions are the new drivers of prosperity. They critique the concentration of financial decision-making in Western capitals and the lack of representation for these growing economies in global financial governance. The paragraph calls for a change in the system to better reflect the current economic realities and to allow for more equitable financial flows.

15:01

🤝 The Need for New Partnerships and Global Governance

The discussion turns to the necessity of forming new partnerships and rethinking global governance mechanisms to be more inclusive of the global South. The speaker suggests that the West, particularly Europe, needs to present concrete proposals for reform and to engage with countries that are advocating for change. They also address the need for the global South to offer more than just opposition to the status quo, but to contribute positively to the creation of a new world order.

20:03

🌐 Geopolitical Shifts and the Role of Technology

In this paragraph, the focus is on the changing dynamics of global power and the central role of technology in these shifts. The speaker argues for a transatlantic partnership in technology to compete effectively with rivals and avoid internal competition that could be detrimental. They also discuss the importance of reciprocity in trade agreements and the need to be critical of China's trade practices, which often do not offer equal opportunities to foreign companies.

25:06

📚 The Impact of Chinese Influence on Global Research and Media

The speaker raises concerns about the influence of China on global research and development, as well as media, suggesting that this influence may be contributing to China's technological advancements at the expense of Western interests. They refute claims of self-censorship due to Chinese advertising revenue and emphasize the need for critical engagement with China, rather than a surrender to its growing power.

🎓 The Future of Indo-European Partnerships

The final paragraph looks to the future, particularly the potential for Indo-European partnerships in education and technology. The speaker expresses optimism about the impact of Indian students in European colleges and the mutual benefits of such exchanges. They also suggest that Germany, like the US before, will see a transformation in its relationship with India as a result of these educational and cultural interactions.

Keywords

💡Global Leader

A 'Global Leader' refers to a nation or entity that has significant influence over international affairs and can shape global policies and norms. In the context of the video, the speaker suggests that Germany is expected to reclaim its role as a global leader, indicating a desire for the country to take a more proactive stance in world affairs.

💡Europe

Europe, in this script, represents a collective of countries that have historically played a significant role in global affairs. The discussion points to Europe's current stance and its relationship with emerging powers like India, suggesting that Europe's future and business interests are deeply intertwined with the rise of other global actors.

💡China's Future

The term 'China's Future' is used to denote the growing economic and political influence of China on the world stage. The script implies that European businesses have anchored themselves to China, indicating a reliance on and an investment in China's continued growth and global significance.

💡Critical Thinking

Critical thinking is the ability to analyze and evaluate information objectively. The video suggests that Europe lacks this critical thinking, as it is not taking the lead in defining its future or shaping the global agenda but instead is being led by others, which is seen as a missed opportunity for Europe to assert its influence.

💡Growth

Growth, in the context of the video, refers to economic development and expansion. The speaker uses the metaphor of taking time off to illustrate that lack of activity or initiative can hinder growth, as seen in the comparison between Europe's seasonal slowdown and India's rapid economic progress.

💡Diversification

Diversification, in the script, is the strategy of spreading investments and resources across different sectors or regions to mitigate risk and seek new opportunities. The speaker encourages Europe to diversify away from its 'China addiction' by exploring opportunities in places like India.

💡Munich Security Conference

The Munich Security Conference is an annual gathering that discusses international security policy. In the video, it is mentioned as an event that aims to include the global South and address the concerns of countries that feel disadvantaged by the current global order.

💡Global South

The term 'Global South' encompasses developing and emerging economies, often located in Africa, Latin America, and Asia. The script discusses the need to include these countries in global decision-making processes, as they represent a significant portion of the world's population and contribute to global growth.

💡Rules-Based International Order

A 'Rules-Based International Order' refers to a system of global governance where international laws and norms guide state behavior. The video suggests that this order, which the West champions, may not work for all countries, leading to calls for a reset or reform from nations that feel marginalized by it.

💡P5

The P5, or the Permanent Five, are the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council: the United States, Russia, China, France, and the United Kingdom. The script argues for a reevaluation of their role, suggesting that they may no longer represent the global community's interests and should consider including new voices.

💡Free Trade

Free trade is the idea of minimizing barriers to commerce, such as tariffs and quotas, to allow the unrestricted flow of goods and services. The video discusses the hypocrisy of advocating for free trade while not practicing reciprocity, particularly in the context of China's trade practices.

Highlights

Discussion on Europe's global leadership and its economic ties with China.

The speaker's belief that Europe is not taking advantage of new global opportunities.

Critique of Europe's business reliance on China and resistance to diversify.

Comment on the work culture in India contributing to its 8% growth rate.

Lack of critical thinking identified as Europe's main deficiency.

The need for Europe to establish an identity that matches its economic power.

India's potential to offer opportunities to Europe post-COVID economic recovery.

The Munich Security Conference's focus on including the global South.

The UN General Assembly vote revealing dissatisfaction with the current global order.

The frustration of countries not being part of the original rule-making process.

Concerns about double standards in global governance.

The argument for a reset in global governance involving the global South.

The potential of the G20 to become more influential than the G7.

The importance of new voices in global leadership, such as India and Brazil.

The role of technology and the need for a transatlantic partnership.

The impact of Chinese investments on Western research and development.

The influence of Chinese advertising on Western media and its potential impact on free speech.

The suggestion for a more transactional world and the importance of long-term partnerships.

The potential of India-EU and India-Germany partnerships in various sectors.

Transcripts

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

Mr sarin i w to I want to actually um

ask you the same question that um Isabel

asked on a panel yesterday and then we

also asked um our economics Minister

this the a similar question and isab

asked the question is who's waiting for

Europe so and then I continued to the

question who's waiting for Germany and

Rob habc seem to think that everyone's

waiting for Germany to take back our

Global leader role what do you think

look we are betting on

Germany uh I truly believe that um this

continent and and the Indian future is

deeply interl but I don't believe Europe

is betting on uh the rise and the

emergence of India and some other actors

Europe has firmly resolved the Europe

businesses have firmly anchored

themselves to China's future and they

are stubbornly refusing to move away

from that direction uh they are uh not

expeditionary enough to look at the new

opportunities that are arising in

different parts of the world and they're

playing very safe someone was talking

about growth right well you don't grow

if you take two months off every year

it's impossible to get to meet anyone

between July and August in this

continent in you know in this part of

the world you're not going to grow if

you're going to be sleeping for 2 months

in a year people ask me how is India

growing at 8% we work many hours a day

well we go you're going actually quite

quite deep into our I guess Society

order no no I was just there just a

comment from the previous panel you know

where one of the panelists had

emphasized on growth I think Europe

needs uh the only resource Europe is

lacking today is not critical minerals

it's critical thinking Europe is one of

the largest economies it is powerful it

can Define the future it can shape the

agenda and yet it allows itself to be

brbe by anyone and everyone into

following other people's lead I think

Europe needs to have identity in a sense

of self that is commensurate with a 20

trillion constellation that it

represents and I think that is missing

in Europe we are waiting for that Europe

and we are betting on that Europe and we

hope Europe notices that there is a

subcontinent of 1.5 billion people that

is moving from $4 trillion to10 trillion

in the next 10 years and that offers an

opportunity so that you can get over

your China addiction you can start

diversifying and you can start B betting

on right people and nice

people well I guess I'm also quite sure

there's also nice people in China so I'm

just to make that point clear so

Benedict franka you are I guess like

like I said you a CEO of unic security

conference you had a conference earlier

this year that was not easy because the

times are very critical um when you you

look back at it now is let's say the

rising the rising of other company of

other countries the most the most

interesting that we've been seeing may

we start there can I start by saying how

much I love being on a panel with Samir

because he's probably the only one that

makes me look quiet and sane and which

is absolutely fantastic thanks Sam here

yeah so the Munich security conference

2024 was all about the need to include

the global South you know for us it

wasn't as much the invasion of Ukraine

that was the wakeup call it was really

the UN general assembly vote a week

later where we were all thrilled that

142 countries said no it's not okay to

uh attack and kill your neighbor and you

know five countries the usual suspect

said no perfectly all right to invade

and kill your neighbor but it was 38

countries representing more than half

the world's population that abstained

they all abstained for different reasons

but at the end of the day I think it's

pretty clear to say that more than half

of the world currently doesn't believe

in the global order that we've become

addicted to and the Munich security

conference tries to do its part in you

know trying to figure out why that is

the case and what do these 38 countries

really have in common that's not a lot

so there isn't a Consolidated Global

when we jump there what do they have in

common I I think they have a frustration

in common um they they have a um a

legitimate concern in common that the

global order does not work for them in

fact structurally disadvantages them and

I think they also have a narrative in

common first of all this rules-based

International order that we all love

most of them weren't independent when

the rules were made second the rules

don't work for them look at the

different debt level and the the the

money you need to um to get rid of that

that and look at how we are adhering to

the rules look at our double standards

why do we treat you know the I verdict

against uh Putin differently from the

one against Netanyahu why do we treat

the war in Ukraine different from the

war on T I mean they have very very

clear well there are reasons though they

are but the point is we are not very

good at explaining them and we are not

very good at taking them along and we

believe we need to get a lot better at

taking and I'm also not saying we don't

do not have double standards I'm also

quite sure that's the truth when you

looking from your perspective like I

said from the outside in is that is that

something that you would subscribe to

that you said that's actually what's

happening no actually these were my

notes that he read out

so these were exactly my thoughts as

well on on on the the commonality

between those who don't necessarily

agree with you it is uh a genuine uh

grievance against how a the rules have

been framed B how they have been

implemented uh and and see who who has

been given exemptions uh from following

those rules uh if you are sitting in in

uh in in my part of the world uh for me

uh the problem did not begin with

Ukraine it actually began with

Afghanistan that was highly problematic

that you did a deal with the devil and

then you left a country overnight and

then uh your agencies returned there and

they demand women's rights what were you

expecting when you did the deal with the

with the government that is in charge of

Kabul you were expecting them to be

promoting women's rights

I mean this is ridiculous right so you

knew what you were getting into you

closed your eyes because it was

expedient to leave Kabul and you walked

away overnight and you had those

terrible scenes uh out of Afghanistan

for me that was problematic but you know

location matters so if I get more

affected based on what happens in my

neighborhood and similarly you get

affected what's happening in Ukraine the

distance is pretty much the same between

Delhi and Kabul and and and and Berlin

and the borders with Russia so my point

here is that there is a genuine problem

we have a problem have to first admit

that the rules that were framed have

served the first billion well MH 500

million in the Atlantic system that is

the Americans and some Europeans and 500

million collateral beneficiaries some in

China some in India some in other parts

of the world but basically it has served

a billion Elite of the world well and it

has not served the next 7 and a half

billion those next 7 and a half billion

are now demanding a reset now either you

allow for that reset and have a new

conversation for example the G20 which

has now become a more important body

than the G7 for example I'm just giving

you one of the examples where a much

larger constellation of actors are

speaking or uh create new institutions

where one country one vote becomes the

norm but you cannot have the victors of

World War II and the colonial powers of

that era Define Our Lives okay for me

the secur UN Security Council represents

the continuation of a colonial

project Colonial powers and their allies

are still the ones who sit on that

particular Council and and for me that

is exactly the council that needs to be

demolished if a new world order and new

rules need to emerge okay but if we

continue on that thought what what's

next I mean like if the rules that we

have right now do not should do not or

should not apply uh to countries that

for sure have been suffered through

those rules and through what have been

done to them do we just wait for new

rules to fall into place or who's who's

going to who's going to check but I can

take a go for you know I can make a go

for it I think what we need really need

to do is that those who are in who those

who were in charge till now we need to

pension them off they need to be retired

they've done a good job over the last 75

years now we need new faces new voices

new blood and I'll give you an example a

working example if you look at the two

G20 presidencies of the last two years

Indonesian and Indian and now of course

you have the Brazilian uh who are in

charge but we haven't reached the

outcome yet but if you look at the

Indonesian and Indian presidencies I

think there were a remarkable effort on

diplomacy where in a polarized world

where we couldn't agree on anything both

Indonesia and India could bring everyone

into the room and bring and put a cons

consensus document or outcome document

or a ambitious outcome document that

drives the world forward on critical

issues around sdgs around energy around

Finance around economic stability around

certain other questions it's time for

new voices to enter the room they can do

it I don't think the the P5 or the G7

have that capacity to do it anymore you

need the Indonesians you need the

Brazilians you need the Indians you need

them on the top table but the new Indian

president is not very much a very new

voice is he sorry the India the

president of India is not very much a

new voice the the presence of India yeah

it's very new you know what you I think

she means prime minister prime minister

is like 200 years old oh that's not what

I mean but he's in charge for quite a

long time no I I mean that's not my

point I'm talking about India as an

actor not the Indian Prime Minister as

within an actor in India I'm talking

about India as a player on the global

stage it's a very new phenomenon I would

I would argue that it's only at the turn

of the century with the Civil nuclear

agreement then who's I mean like who's

who's going to be like maybe you find an

example who's who should be this new

voice I just told you that it's time to

dismantle the P5 and have a new

Arrangement like a real name I I just

told you three names I think it's time

to bring a few countries from Africa and

we can think about Nigeria South Africa

you can pick up a couple from that

continent you have India you have Brazil

you have uh uh countries such as Germany

for example by the way even from the old

continent that why should the French and

British be uh be speaking on behalf of

this continent or maybe you need to have

an EU voice a a unified EU voice on that

uh Council it's time to get the two uh

out and and certainly bringing the

Japanese and bring in the the

Indonesians who are that's going to be a

big discussion table 10 or 11 people

right okay that's not that big for a for

a world that is now 8 billion people you

had five people running world when there

were barely a handful of countries that

were independent and free so you did

want a controversial panel I I'm I'm

super happy about this I'm just trying

to find I'm just trying to find um a way

to like make sure that whatever we find

at the end of this panel will actually

get out and we um actually make it like

something that we can deal with in

normal life I mean look look let me just

add something if you look if you read

the recent IMF report and now I'm coming

back to since this is a business forum

let's talk money look the report

suggests that over half close to 60% of

all Global

growth is now being contributed by

countries in the developing and emerging

world so China India parts of Africa

Asia they are contributing 2third of

global growth and this is going to

remain a trend line for a long time this

is going to be the reality they are the

custodians of your continuing Prosperity

even in this continent now it is

important that those who are

contributing such large amounts to uh

the the world's stability and growth uh

need to have a say on the table instead

what do we see what we see is that

Global Financial flows are still decided

by three capitals or four capitals most

of them in Europe and us right it's New

York London Paris and and uh you know if

you want to count a couple of regulatory

bodies in Switzerland it's they who

decide how money flows climate action is

happening in India Africa Latin America

and yet climate Finance remains

concentrated in Europe you know if if

and and whose fault is this

yours it's your fault I mean look you if

you control the bank and you don't allow

Financial flows to to cater to growth

potential it's your fault if I was

sitting on the banks if I was sitting on

the Taps of money and if I was

controlling those Taps I would have said

it's my fault if there's an unequal

Financial architecture if there is a

perverse Financial architecture you have

to blame the managers of that

architecture the Paris Club is to blame

period but they but like there's no but

you are to blame now what do we do about

it I'm not saying dismantle the

architecture I'm saying yes it is time

to create Partnerships of for with

others and and expand it enlarg in it

you are talking about you are talking

about like you said you are talking

about system that grew over years

centuries and you can say it's the

people who are sitting on there now is

are to blame uh but you could also say

maybe it's time to change a system

systematically like you said I'm saying

that I'm saying that itself you know if

that gives you relief let's do it it's

the same thing let's change the system

okay and again because you also been

speaking to a lot of a lot of countries

from the global s what is what would be

a good next step to actually change that

system where there is like and the thing

is like I I completely do feel like uh

everyone agrees with you that people

like like

countries countries that have not been

sitting on the table enough do need a

voice that is louder than it is right

now okay once again thanks for making me

seem cool um I I guess you know there is

only one Sam San but I'm really enjoying

this because that's the voice of the

global South that I keep hearing

Wherever I Go those are the points and

and we sit in our Silo and we just

ignore it and at some point it'll come

back to bite us there is however other

other side to this discussion one thing

that unites the global South is this

opposition Justified opposition to the

current system one thing that divides

them is a vision of the future and there

are very few countries in the global

South that beyond the occasional

fantastic G20 presidency actually come

up with concrete proposals put in the

Investments The Diplomatic power to to

move things forward the West for lack of

a better term has made some proposals

reform of the Global Financial

architecture to start off with um I'm

absolutely with Samir that we need to

change things to make Global governance

mechanisms attractive to the global

South create stakeholders pull them

along um but it's not enough to just be

against the current order you need to

present concrete proposals for the way

forward some countries have done that

the Indian G20 president has done that

they have added the African Union to the

320 they've had other success stories

but it's not enough Germany the European

Union the West invests billions and

billions in the Diplomatic machines that

keep the system running and where are

the Brazilians where are the South

Africans where are those that are

shouting loudest I don't see enough of

them to actually justify us just leaving

the room and handing over the world so

to so question back at you directly why

do you again like why do you think that

is I mean it's just because we are too

stubborn just because we're too lazy to

change things or is it just because

we're too afraid to actually that other

countries could gain more power and we

lose ours so you know I I think I I

there is a very easy answer to that and

and a rather complex one the complex one

is that it's all of those things maybe

with the exception of the lazy bit we

are afraid of losing out we are afraid

of um relative power shift shs we are

afraid of a world order that takes away

our structural advantages and we have

not yet developed trust in the global

South to actually get it done to look

beyond their borders because another

point is it is the West that is driving

the sustainable development goals it's

the West that is driving humanitarian

action around the world and it's

definitely not the global South now the

legitimate counterargument is the global

South does not yet have the money and

has enough problems at home to go abroad

and solve things and we do see Kenya

going to Haiti and things like that so

there is an increasing amount of agency

in the global South but again I would

say just not enough now the question is

are we leaving them enough room are we

making it easy for them to enter the

debate at the right level are we

enabling them is that even our job I

think those are the questions we need to

discuss also there was I want to I want

to add one more uh one more point to the

discussion and I know you've uh you've

been very outspoken about this you said

in an interv is

outspoken I'm sh i' I've noticed um um

you you said in an interview uh there is

a creeping surrender to China in the

world not in the world in Europe okay be

specific I said I said that it's time to

now perhaps for all of us who study

geopolitics and security to come to the

conclusion that EU is not a security

actor maybe we are maybe we are

assessing EU in the wrong way maybe EU

is a mercantilist geography and we

should not be thinking about the

Strategic strand emerging from this

continent and and it's our expectations

that are that are leading to

disappointment and maybe Europe was

always like this that's what I've said

I've said it's time perhaps to to

consider EU as a non-security actor and

to deal with the individual countries

separately based on those who understand

where the world is headed and the those

who don't I I read the report produced

by German industry on China and they

felt that it was a very bold report it

was not but is then is it it was an

apology to China that sorry we are using

these words in the first three pages the

last 10 pages were let's do business

together and let's do it deeper and

let's do it more I think that was what

the German industry report on China was

that let's talk about uh aisc of the

reality that one day Uncle Sam is going

to tell you Germany no energy from

Russia you told that line they will tell

you no business with China you'll have

to stop that but you are not willing to

change your China fix your China

addiction is a problem you are in fact

doubling down and most of your

industries are announcing larger

expansion of investments into that

country now I'm not saying don't do that

by the way we have grown our trade with

China as well in the last few years we

have 200,000 or 150,000 Chinese troops

on our border right we're facing off

even now there's a there's an active

situation it's not peace there I mean

since it's far away you don't realize it

but we have a ongoing situation on our

on our borders and and we have still

grown our trade simply because there is

a certain amount of trade that is is um

largely beneficial for the supply chain

aspects of Global Production and there

are some critical sectors where we have

banned Chinese completely for example we

don't have Tik Tok in our country but

the ja the Germans love Tik Tok so Tik

Tok is allowed in this country right

because that's your entertainment I'm

just assuming because we we didn't think

Tik Tok was any use to us and we didn't

want Chinese propaganda to be

proliferating our society we banned Tik

Tok and we banned many Chinese apps we

banned them from our 5G networks we

banned them from our telecommunication

and energy systems we banned them from

our infrastructure and Coastal

development so we have taken certain

sectors which are pragmatic for National

Security and and and kept them out of

bounds for but seriously like like band

because we've spoken about global free

trade uh is B really the China with

China you talk about global free trade

China laughs at you China trades with

you on its terms China bans your

companies from from from participating

in their economy and wants you to be

opening their doors to them seek

reciprocity that is the first Free Trade

Agreement reciprocity give to the other

what they give to you when they don't

give you that don't give it back

still most I like the Chinese too I do a

lot of trade with

them what I'm what I'm asking myself is

because you said like most have been run

by people and some Western capitals if

it's true that we surrender to China

especially in Europe is it not actually

the Chinese that run us they run who

they run the Europeans well like more or

less I don't think we have reached that

level yet but but I can certainly say

that there are enough reports coming out

of this part of the world certainly one

that came out in the UK how the entire

R&D system of UK universities was

actually building Chinese capabilities

and critical Technologies if you look at

Deep Tech and that's a very broad term

but if you look at some 23 important

Technologies there's an Australian

report which says that in 18 out of the

23 Technologies China leads now this is

been largely built on the back of their

being able to capture all your R&D and

Innovation centers around the world they

have funded Rich they have funded Oxford

they have funded east coast of America

they have funded perhaps even

universities in this country have not

necessarily looked at Germany so I I

will refrain from commenting on it but I

won't be surprised that if a large part

of your civil architecture is

contributing to their increasing

influence in in key sectors second they

control your media Chinese ads are very

lucrative for most media houses that are

suffering from bottom line problems and

Chinese ads ensure that criticism of

China is muted in most of your

newspapers and mediums that's not

true that's simply not true I mean look

again this is the report that comes out

of your continent not my reading I'm I'm

reading out to you from a UK report that

came out of uh you know again uh one of

the authors is from the House of Lords

and I'm reading from that report now

like I said I'm not speaking about

Germany because I don't know but I'm

talking about this continent and that

report literally said that uh from

research papers to Media conversations

to uh Innovation that's happening in

Labs today actually serves China's

benefit I've written a book on it it's

called Paca bu it it's nice it tells you

how China is borrowing your boats to

cross the Seas it's your boats they

writing

it I'm I'm honestly I'm honestly very

much opposing the fact that we're not

critical on China in this country I

can't really say much about other other

Medias but we're not silencing on China

just because they're supporting ads um

so that that's very much for my business

and I know I can speak for a lot of

colleagues so but if we want talk from

from

problematic let's say trade Partners to

Partnerships maybe on the last 50

seconds that we

have um what is what is a good

partnership I mean like you said us and

India would make sense especially I

think you've mentioned defense space AI

technology would make sense what do you

think makes sense to partner who who do

you think makes sense to partner with

you know I think at the end of the day

if we believe that the world has become

more transactional which the Munich

security conference believes then the

world has become a global Marketplace of

ideas then it is our Western ideas that

you know are the more sustainable um the

the the more fair U the more Equitable

in the long run they're definitely the

least attractive in the short run and so

I think Partnerships that build on

longterm benefit generation are the ones

that we need to look at and I think

there are lot like which one

I I you know to be perfectly honest I

think at the end of the day it is

technology it all comes down to

technology and at the moment from a

geostrategic point of view we're making

a huge mistake by being in competition

more with our friends than with our real

Rivals and that is absolutely disastrous

and here I think a true transatlantic

partnership on technology rather than

trying to regulate each other out of

business would be the way forward mhm

very good point

we did run out of time um I the fact

that I do love discussing and arguing

what makes me like want to do that again

let's do that again some other time

maybe soon you never ask me what's a

good partnership and I'm saying an India

EU partnership is the future oh that's

nice now that I love you all and a India

German one even more

important but noce us now I think uh we

are getting a lot lots of young Indian

students coming to your colleges our

relationship is going to change the

India us relationship was built on Smart

Indians um going and building that

country and then building that

partnership and I think Germany is going

to see that in the next 10 years as well

we are coming and we are going to be

helping you uh grow faster and grow in

the right

direction and that's all we need growth

thank you very much to the both of you

thank you very much thank you

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