Spirituality and Mental Health - Dr. Sidney Hankerson

Summary

In this insightful podcast episode, Dr. Sydney Henkerson, co-director of Columbia University's Wellness Center, discusses the pivotal role of faith-based communities, particularly in African-American culture, in promoting equitable mental health services. He highlights the importance of culturally tailored interventions and the potential of churches to serve as mental health allies. Dr. Henkerson also addresses the racial disparities in mental health treatment and the impact of historical injustices on trust in healthcare, advocating for open dialogue and community engagement to foster understanding and healing.

Takeaways

• 🎓 Dr. Sydney Henkerson is a co-director of the Columbia University Wellness Center, assistant professor of psychiatry, and a research scientist, with a focus on faith-based mental health services and reducing racial disparities in mental health treatment.
• 💡 Churches are central to communities of color, particularly the African-American community, and have historically been institutions that provide informal mental health support and counseling.
• 🔑 Faith leaders are often the first point of contact for individuals experiencing mental health issues, making them frontline mental health professionals in their communities.
• 🌉 Faith and spirituality can act as both a bridge and a barrier to mental health care, with some religious beliefs attributing mental health problems to spiritual or moral failings.
• 🏥 The Hope Center, a mental health clinic created within the First Corinthian Baptist Church, provides free evidence-based therapy to the Harlem community, regardless of church membership.
• 💊 Attitudes towards medication in faith communities can be varied, with some hesitancy due to beliefs about the role of faith in healing; education and workshops are used to address these concerns.
• 📚 There is a history of mistrust between the black community and psychiatry, stemming from systemic racism, historical abuses like the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, and misdiagnoses in mental health care.
• 🤝 Dr. Henkerson's work involves partnering with trusted community organizations, such as churches and barber shops, to foster dialogue and reduce stigma around mental health.
• 🌟 The importance of cultural humility in the psychiatric field is highlighted, especially considering the underrepresentation of black psychiatrists and the need for training to address historical injustices.
• 📈 A federally funded study by Dr. Henkerson involves training community health workers to deliver tailored motivational interviewing for depression, with outcomes measured through clinical symptoms and treatment engagement.
• 📖 The script emphasizes the importance of sharing personal stories of mental health struggles and recovery as a powerful tool for reducing stigma and encouraging treatment-seeking behavior.

Q & A

Who is Dr. Sydney Henkerson and what are his roles?

Dr. Sydney Henkerson is the co-director of the Columbia University Wellness Center, an assistant professor of psychiatry at Columbia University Irving Medical Center, and a research scientist at the New York State Psychiatric Institute. He is a nationally recognized expert in faith-based mental health services and has presented at prestigious institutions such as the White House, the United Nations, and the National Institute of Mental Health.

What is the significance of churches in communities of color, especially in African-American communities?

Churches are the bedrock of communities of color and have historically been some of the few institutions owned by members of the black community. They have traditionally provided informal support and counseling, making them central to promoting equitable mental health services.

How does Dr. Henkerson's work with faith leaders aim to reduce racial and ethnic disparities in mental health treatment?

Dr. Henkerson focuses on leveraging the trusted role of churches in the black community to expand their role in providing culturally tailored and evidence-based interventions for mental health, particularly for African-American churches.

What is the role of faith leaders in mental health according to the script?

Faith leaders, particularly pastors, are considered front-line mental health professionals who have been providing informal support and counseling for years. They are often the first point of contact for people experiencing mental health issues.

How can faith and spirituality affect the stigma associated with mental health conditions?

Faith and spirituality can act as both a bridge and a barrier to seeking mental health care. They can contribute to stigma by attributing mental health problems to spiritual or moral failings, but they can also be leveraged to reduce stigma and foster connections to mental health care.

What is the initiative involving mental health first aid through churches in partnership with the New York City Department of Health?

The initiative aims to have faith leaders talk about the importance of mental health, reduce stigma by sharing stories, and connect people to treatment. It involves training community health workers to deliver motivational interviewing tailored for depression.

How does the Hope Center, created by First Corinthian Baptist Church, provide mental health services to the community?

The Hope Center is a freestanding mental health clinic that offers evidence-based therapy sessions, such as cognitive behavioral therapy and group therapy, free of charge to members of the Harlem community, regardless of their church membership.

What are some of the historical reasons for the distrust between the black community and psychiatry?

Historical reasons for distrust include systemic racism that barred African Americans from healthcare services, unethical studies like the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, and misdiagnoses in psychiatric care that have led to harsher treatments.

How does Dr. Henkerson's personal background influence his professional work with faith communities?

Dr. Henkerson's personal experiences growing up in a Baptist church where his father was a deacon and his mother played piano for the choir have instilled in him the importance of faith. This, combined with professional experiences treating African-American and Latino patients, has emphasized the importance of spirituality and faith in mental health care.

What strategies does Dr. Henkerson suggest to address the distrust between the psychiatric field and the black community?

Dr. Henkerson suggests strategies such as discussing the history of injustices, forming partnerships with trusted community-based organizations, and incorporating trainings around cultural humility in the psychiatric field to address the distrust.

How does the script discuss the importance of measuring the effectiveness of uniting mental health and spirituality?

The script mentions a federally funded study that involves training community health workers to deliver motivational interviewing for depression in churches. The study will measure the impact on clinical outcomes and treatment engagement to assess the effectiveness of this approach.

Outlines

00:00

😀 Introduction to Dr. Sydney Henkerson's Expertise

Dr. Sydney Henkerson is introduced as a co-director of Columbia University's Wellness Center, assistant professor of psychiatry, and a research scientist. He is recognized for his work in faith-based mental health services and reducing racial and ethnic disparities in mental health treatment. His approach includes culturally tailored motivational interviews for church members and implementing evidence-based practices in African-American churches. The conversation aims to explore the role of spirituality and faith in mental health, especially within communities of color.

05:01

🏛 The Role of Churches in Mental Health Equity

Churches are highlighted as central institutions in communities of color, especially for African-Americans, serving as trusted sources for mental health support alongside formal healthcare providers. A landmark study is mentioned, indicating that more people in the U.S. seek help from clergy for mental health issues than from medical professionals. Dr. Henkerson discusses leveraging the trust in churches to provide culturally tailored and evidence-based interventions, emphasizing the importance of faith leaders as frontline mental health professionals.

10:04

🛡️ Faith and Spirituality's Impact on Mental Health Stigma

Faith and spirituality can act as both a bridge and barrier to mental health care. Some religious institutions may attribute mental health issues to spiritual shortcomings, causing stigma and negative experiences. However, efforts have been made to create congregations that bridge people to mental health care, such as implementing mental health first aid through churches in partnership with health departments. The conversation touches on regional initiatives in the U.S., including the South and California, and the importance of meeting people where they are for effective mental health support.

15:05

💊 Addressing Medication Attitudes in Faith Communities

The discussion explores attitudes towards medication within faith communities, with some hesitancy due to beliefs that mental health issues should be addressed through prayer. To counter this, workshops and seminars are developed to educate about the importance of medication when necessary, side effects, and the role of medical professionals. An example is given of a church that created a mental health clinic, providing free medication management and reducing stigma around mental health treatment.

20:06

🤝 Personal and Professional Involvement with Community Churches

Dr. Henkerson's personal and professional experiences with community churches are shared, including growing up in a Baptist church and witnessing the central role of faith in health information dissemination. His professional encounters with African-American and Latino patients emphasized the importance of spirituality and faith in their lives, leading him to merge these aspects in his work to better serve these communities.

🏥 The Creation of the Hope Center and its Impact

The Hope Center, a mental health clinic created within the First Corinthian Baptist Church, is discussed. It offers free evidence-based therapy sessions to the Harlem community, regardless of church membership. The center was initiated by the pastor's personal struggle with depression and his commitment to providing accessible mental health services. Dr. Henkerson is working to expand the center's capacity and establish relationships with Columbia for psychiatrist access and medication management.

🔍 Historical Distrust Between Psychiatry and the Black Community

The conversation delves into the historical distrust between psychiatry and the black community, citing systemic racism, the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, and misdiagnoses as contributing factors. The impact of these injustices on the black community's perception of healthcare and psychiatry is discussed, along with the importance of understanding this history to address current disparities and build trust.

🌱 Strategies to Improve Trust in Psychiatry Among Black Communities

Strategies to improve trust in psychiatry among black communities are suggested, including raising awareness about historical injustices, forming partnerships with trusted community organizations, and incorporating cultural humility training in psychiatric education. The importance of these measures in fostering a more equitable healthcare system is emphasized.

📊 Measuring the Effectiveness of Mental Health and Spirituality Integration

The conversation concludes with a discussion on measuring the effectiveness of integrating mental health and spirituality. A federally funded study involving 30 Harlem churches is mentioned, where community health workers deliver motivational interviewing tailored for depression. The study will assess clinical outcomes, treatment engagement, and the impact on depressive symptoms and overall functioning, with a focus on the role of spirituality in these outcomes.

Keywords

💡Faith-based mental health services

Faith-based mental health services are programs that integrate religious or spiritual practices with mental health treatment. In the video, Dr. Sydney Henkerson is recognized as an expert in this field, focusing on the cultural significance of faith in communities of color and its potential to reduce racial and ethnic disparities in mental health treatment. An example from the script is Dr. Henkerson's work with African-American churches to implement evidence-based practices for depression.

💡Culturally tailored interventions

Culturally tailored interventions are therapeutic approaches that are adapted to the cultural context of the individuals being treated. Dr. Henkerson's work exemplifies this by using motivational interviews that are specifically designed for church members who test positive for depression, showing how such interventions can be more effective when they consider the cultural background of the recipients.

💡Racial and ethnic disparities

Racial and ethnic disparities refer to the unequal treatment or outcomes experienced by different racial or ethnic groups. The video discusses Dr. Henkerson's focus on reducing these disparities in mental health treatment, emphasizing the importance of addressing systemic racism and its impact on healthcare access and trust within communities of color.

💡Spirituality

Spirituality is a broad concept often related to an individual's sense of connection to something bigger than themselves, including religious beliefs. In the script, spirituality is highlighted as a culturally based element that can influence mental health treatment approaches and attitudes, with Dr. Henkerson discussing its role in stigma reduction and its importance in African-American communities.

💡Stigma

Stigma refers to the negative attitudes and discrimination associated with a particular condition or trait, in this case, mental health conditions. The video discusses how faith and spirituality can both act as barriers and bridges in seeking mental health care, with efforts being made to reduce stigma through initiatives like mental health first aid in faith-based settings.

💡Mental Health First Aid

Mental Health First Aid is a training program that teaches individuals how to identify, understand, and respond to signs of mental health issues. The script mentions an initiative in New York City where faith leaders are trained to discuss mental health, reduce stigma, and connect people to treatment, illustrating the program's application in faith communities.

💡Evidence-based practices

Evidence-based practices are therapeutic interventions that are supported by scientific research demonstrating their effectiveness. Dr. Henkerson's work with faith communities involves implementing such practices for depression, showing the importance of grounding mental health initiatives in proven methods.

💡The Hope Center

The Hope Center is a freestanding mental health clinic created within the First Corinthian Baptist Church, offering evidence-based therapy sessions to the Harlem community at no cost. The script discusses this initiative as an example of leveraging faith-based settings to provide accessible and culturally sensitive mental health services.

💡Medication management

Medication management refers to the process of prescribing, monitoring, and adjusting medications as part of a treatment plan. The video mentions a church-affiliated clinic providing medication management free of charge, addressing the need for accessible psychiatric care and the potential hesitancy towards medication in some faith communities.

💡Institutional Review Board (IRB)

An Institutional Review Board is a committee that reviews research studies to ensure they are ethical and protect participants' rights. The script refers to the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, which led to the requirement for IRBs, highlighting the historical context of medical research and its impact on trust within the black community.

💡Cultural humility

Cultural humility is an awareness and understanding of one's own cultural biases and an openness to learn from and work with people from different cultural backgrounds. The video discusses the importance of cultural humility in psychiatry, especially given the underrepresentation of black psychiatrists and the need for training to address historical injustices and build trust.

Highlights

Dr. Sydney Henkerson is a co-director of the Columbia University Wellness Center and a nationally recognized expert in faith-based mental health services.

Churches are central to promoting equitable mental health services in communities of color due to their historical and trusted role.

Pastors have been providing informal mental health support for years, highlighting the importance of faith leaders in mental health care.

Culturally tailored motivational interviewing is used for church members who screen positive for depression.

Faith and spirituality can act as both a bridge and a barrier to seeking mental health care, affecting the stigma associated with mental health conditions.

Some houses of worship attribute mental health problems to spiritual or personal sins, creating barriers to treatment.

Efforts are made to create congregations that serve as bridges to mental health care, reducing stigma.

Mental health first aid is implemented through churches in partnership with the New York City Department of Health.

Regional differences in faith and mental health are discussed, with the South and West Coast being leaders in this space.

The importance of education about mental health symptoms, severity, and medication benefits is emphasized.

A freestanding mental health clinic created by a church provides free evidence-based therapy to the Harlem community.

The historical distrust between the black community and psychiatry is discussed, including the impact of systemic racism and past medical abuses.

Strategies to address distrust include forming partnerships with community-based organizations and incorporating cultural humility training in psychiatric education.

The importance of sharing personal stories of mental health recovery to combat stigma and promote treatment seeking is highlighted.

A federally funded study is mentioned, which measures the impact of motivational interviewing on depression in Harlem churches.

The significance of Dr. Henkerson's work in bridging mental health and spirituality, and its potential to change the paradigm of treatment and trust.

Transcripts

hello everybody welcome back to

a really exciting episode of ask the

expert today

we're here talking to dr sydney

henkerson

he's the co-director of the columbia

university wellness center

the assistant professor of psychiatry at

columbia university irving medical

center

and a research scientist at the new york

state psychiatric institute

he's a nationally recognized expert at

faith-based

mental health services he's even

presented at the white house

the united nations and the national

institute of mental health

to name a few he also focuses

on reducing the racial and ethic

disparities in mental health treatment

which i think is so important for us to

address today as we talk about

spirituality and faith

because it's so culturally based what i

love about dr hankerson's work

is his use of culturally tailored

motivational interview for church

members who scream positive for

depression

and implementing evidence-based

practices for depression in

african-american churches

i feel like you're someone i could talk

to for hours

about the work we're doing on our mental

health ally certification

and our cultural humility learning hubs

but for the sake of our listeners

we'll dive in and we'll try to keep it

quick for our podcast

without further ado meet dr sydney

henkerson

thank you so much for being with us

today thank you so much for having me

marjorie it's truly a pleasure to be

here and thank you for that

really uh wonderful introduction i'm

glad this is being recorded because i

don't think my mother would believe that

i did all that stuff

oh i have a feeling that everybody

around you probably knows they're around

greatness i have no doubt

it's a great team so just diving right

in

what is it about churches that make them

so central to promoting and achieving

equitable mental health services in

communities of color

you know churches are really the bedrock

of communities of color generally

and the african-american community in

particular

and this is dated back you know for

generations

churches have been you know besides

historically black colleges and

universities

some of the only institutions really

owned

by members of the black community and in

terms of mental health promotion

we know that pastors have provided

informal

you know supports and counseling for

years

and my work in this area really was

catalyzed by a landmark paper that came

out nearly 20 years ago

which showed that across the united

states regardless of a person's racial

ethnic background

or regardless of their refill a

religious affiliation

more people who are experiencing

depression or anxiety or substance use

first seek help from clergy uh

more so than they seek help from uh

general medical providers or from

psychiatrists

so our faith leaders are really front

line mental health professionals

and given the the trusted role that

churches have in the black community

i thought that we could leverage that

trust and that access

uh to expand upon you know the the role

that they are naturally doing to provide

kind of culturally tailored and more

evidence-based interventions

in in faith-based settings i couldn't

be any more grateful for you for

thinking about that and looking at it in

that way because it is so true

that people we know that they go to

their faith leaders

and they are such an important part and

even though

so many of them are naturally gifted at

that counseling piece and that real like

listening to be able to leverage that

makes

so much sense oh thank you for that

can you tell me how faith and

spirituality affect

stigma associated with mental health

conditions and their treatment

faith and spirituality i like to say can

be

either a bridge or a barrier

to people seeking mental health care um

i think

first starting actually with the more

difficult in terms of faith or

spirituality

being being a barrier to people seeking

mental health care

we we know that some houses of worship

um actually attribute to mental health

problems to spiritual problems

in particular to personal sin

or to a lack of faith um and so

unfortunately some people who

are religious or who have attended

various houses of worship

have had negative experiences um with

those faith traditions because

when they were feeling depressed or

anxious or struggling with drug use

um they were told that it was their

fault because of sin or they just needed

to pray more or they didn't have enough

faith

and so so much of my work has been in

trying to reduce that stigma

to create congregations that are bridges

to people getting mental health care and

there has been

so much work especially in the last 20

years

that has fostered you know faith-based

organizations and truly being bridges um

to connecting people to care uh so

what's part of what we've tried to do as

a way of do that for example

is actually implementing mental health

first aid

through churches in partnership with the

new york city department of health

there was a huge initiative to partner

with faith-based organizations

from churches to synagogues to imams

to have these faith leaders on sundays

talk about the importance of mental

health

um reduce stigma by sharing their story

and getting people connected to

treatment

i'm curious are you seeing like being

that you're in new york are you seeing

similar things

throughout the country or is it more

like regional well in terms of

um national um you know experiences with

the intersection of faith and mental

health

the south you know i'm from virginia so

i'm kind of part of the bible belt

um which is classically kind of the most

religious parts of the country

um so that has been um you know a really

important part of this initiative

and and really trying to engage people

in faith-based settings to

to reduce stigma and get access to care

also in california

uh rick and kay warren i'm actually uh

fortunate to be a part of um

k warren's program this weekend that

she's having called breathe

they've been huge advocates in this

space

in promoting mental health through

churches and because of their reach it's

really taken on an international

flavor so i would say those those key

areas

in the south and southeast and then the

west coast have been really leaders in

this space

it's so great to hear you're making such

a difference i mean because you're

you're meeting people where they're at

and that is so

important when people are getting care

at church or at their faith-based

community

what happens about medication if they

need medication

that's a wonderful question so when

people uh in faith-based settings

uh need medications um we've seen

various uh attitudes towards medications

i think some people are hesitant

in some faith communities to take

medications

so we've developed a series of kind of

workshops

and and seminars to try to educate

people about

symptoms and severity of mental health

problems and

when a person would benefit from

medications and the importance

of discussing side effects with their

prescribers

because we know that all medicines have

side effects

and so that's kind of the strategy that

that we've taken

and one of the churches in particular

that i'm working with created a

freestanding mental health clinic

that is staffed by psychologists we have

a relationship with psychiatrists at

columbia where we provide

um medication management uh free of

charge through our residents

and that's been a wonderful way uh to

provide

you know medications for people who need

it as well as reduce stigma and increase

access to those medications that's great

i'm really curious how did you become

involved in working with community

churches

where'd it all come from so i became

involved in churches through a

combination of kind of personal

experiences

as well as professional experiences so

on a personal level

i grew up in virginia my dad's a deacon

at the church where i grew up a baptist

church

in fredericksburg virginia and my mom

played the piano for the little kids

choir

so i was in church um either singing or

trying to sing

or attending services uh

every week you know as a child and so my

faith is very important to

me and through that experience i saw

just how central

people's faith were and how central and

trusted churches really are

as conduits for providing health

information and then professionally

and in treaty patients either on

inpatient units or outpatient units

especially with african-american and

latino patients

they talked about the importance of

prayer and they talked about the

importance of

me wanting to connect with their pastor

uh or their clergy person and so

that really emphasized the importance of

spirituality and faith

in the lives of the people that we serve

and so

that's how i've tried to kind of merge

those two different aspects through the

work that i do

amazing it's so great and so important

i'm hoping that you could describe to us

the work that you're doing with the

first corinthian baptist church

and the hope center so the the hope

center is um a freestanding

mental health clinic that was created

out of first corinthian baptist church

um they provide 10 to 12

sessions of evidence-based therapy like

cognitive behavioral therapy

interpersonal psychotherapy group

therapy and they provide marital

counseling

free of charge to members of the harlem

community

and people do not have to be members of

the church to receive services

at the hope center so the pastor and i

of the church he really started the hope

center

because of his own personal struggles

which he's talked

very publicly about uh with depression

as well as you know seeking a therapist

himself

and that really uh fueled his desire to

provide services through the hope center

and so now

i'm really working with them quite

closely to try to

expand their capacity because as you can

imagine people are

thrilled at the idea of getting quality

care

that looks through the lens of

spirituality for free

and we're also forming relationships

expanding relationships

with colombia to provide more access to

psychiatrists to provide medication

management through the hope center

that is so important and what an amazing

thing that they're doing it for free

when we think about psychiatry or

medication

or even just psychotherapy it

seems like there's been somewhat of a

negative relationship between psychiatry

and the black community

is that true and if it is how come that

is

well i think the relationship between

medicine in general and psychiatry

and in particular you know historically

has been

um a tenuous one i think generally

uh you know because of systemic racism

and because african americans

historically were barred

access to health care services that

has con contributed to a tremendous

amount of distrust in the black

community

with health care in general other

instances like

the tuskegee syphilis study where over

300 black men

in tuskegee alabama were blatantly lied

to

through a federally funded research

study and told that they were receiving

free treatment for syphilis

when in fact they received no treatment

at all the scientists

just studied syphilis over the life

course in these men

that really um

has created such a a chasm

between medical research and healthcare

in general

um and the black community that we're

seeing it today

when people are talking about vaccine

hesitancy

it's important to contextualize it with

the history of the united states

government

lying to african-american men

and so i think it's very important to

understand this history

with medicine and with medical research

in general

it's because of that that study that all

studies now

have to have an institutional review

board

which reviews the ethics and make sure

that

people know that they're participating

in a study voluntarily

um that emerged out of the atrocity of

the

tuskegee syphilis study so i think

that's the first

layer of this psychiatry in

general also has a a fraught

relationship

with the black community one of the ways

that that has happened

is because uh black men who have

psychotic symptoms

are predominantly are more likely to be

diagnosed with schizophrenia

compared to white men with psychotic

symptoms or more likely diagnosed with

bipolar disorder or major depression

with psychotic features

and so because of this misdiagnosis

which has led to harsher medications and

harsher treatment

that has certainly created distrust with

the the psychiatric field as well

and i think another factor that's

contributed to

distrust is that psychiatry or many

psychiatrists

um have had a

i would say an antagonistic view

of people's spiritual beliefs and given

how central

you know faith and spirituality in the

church is in the lives of african

americans

it certainly has created a sense of

distrust

uh i think with with psychiatry uh in

the black community in general

wow i have to say i'm i'm embarrassed

and ashamed and i didn't know

about any of that so that's that's

crazy and that makes so much sense what

do you think could make it better

well i think in terms of uh addressing

the distrust

uh between you know the psychiatric

field

and the black community i think several

things can can make it better

one is talking about it uh i think to

your point

about people need to know about tuskegee

people need to know about the high rates

of psychiatric misdiagnosis

in black men people need to know about

the high rates of

psychiatric diagnosis in black boys who

when we look at diagnostically have ptsd

or depression

and are more likely than white boys to

be diagnosed with conduct disorder

so i think we have to talk about these

issues and these racial and ethnic

differences in diagnosis

as well as the history of of racism as

it relates to

some medicine generally and to

psychiatry in particular

i think a second thing that we need to

do is to

try to form strategic you know

partnerships with trusted

community-based organizations

such as churches and barber shops and

hair salons

um so i've actually done studies with

barbers uh you know when you sit in that

barber chair

or when you sit in that beauty salon you

have

a couple of hours and those folks are

really

kind of informal counselors as well and

so leveraging the trust

of you know these community settings i

think will go a long way

in addressing some of that you know

distrust

and then i think the third way is really

creating spaces

you know you mentioned um cultural

humility

the reality is is that only three

percent of psychiatrists in this country

are black

three percent and so it's incumbent upon

the field

to incorporate trainings around cultural

humility

so that everyone is aware of some of

these historical injustices

and is attuned so to some of these

factors that contribute to distrust

uh you know in communities of color it's

such important work and it's it's work

that could change the world

really because you know we have these

inequalities and i think

you know i like i love the notion of

talking about it

i think what's what's just hard is that

is the

where and then how do you how do you

engage people

i mean i don't know that we know these

answers but like how do people start

talking about it what can just

what could people do that

that you found i mean you've done a lot

um

and i think that it seems like

everything that you're doing

is focused on the black communities and

helping educate them but there's that

whole other side of it which is

that not black communities that need to

understand it so what could we do

how can we help for everybody that that

cares and wants to be part of this

change

well i think um in terms of what

everyone can do

to address issues around you know racial

injustice and to truly promote equity

uh 2020 was a catalyst for this uh

and people are calling 2020 that the

year of

racial awakening or racial reckoning

what however you want to call it

and i think you know the murder of

george floyd really

opened so many people's eyes to what has

been known by folks

in communities of color for centuries

about the injustices and in the

inequities

in the systems that are supposed to be

helping us

that are naturally uh in in many cases

harm us and so i think that we are at a

critical point

in being able to continue these

conversations and not let last year just

be

um you know an awareness but

hopefully turn that awareness into

action uh such that

uh we have these conversations more

regularly

and we try to increase our our tolerance

for discomfort because they are

uncomfortable conversations

and they need to be uncomfortable but i

think

in that discomfort we can work our way

through to a more equitable and just

society

thank you for all this great work that

you're doing it is

so important you know we're very focused

on

evidence-based practices at cycle and as

as our

as is colombia what are some of the

measures that you use to determine

the effectiveness of uniting mental

health and spirituality

so that's a great question in terms of

thinking about how do we measure

the impact of you know mental health and

spirituality

so we currently have a federally funded

study by the national institutes of

health

that involves 30 churches in harlem and

we have recruited and trained

um community health workers from these

churches who are going to be delivering

motivational interviewing which is an

evidence-based intervention

uh originally developed for substance

use disorders but we're tailoring it for

for depression and we're going to be

looking at its impact

on clinical outcomes so depressive

symptoms like the patient health

questionnaire 9

the quick inventory of depression as

well as

functioning so we'll be looking at the

short form 12 to see how people are

functioning

overall at 3 and 6 months

after they received this intervention

and our main

outcome is treatment engagement so do

people actually

go get care when they are clinically

depressed

does this intervention have an impact on

people actually

seeking you know mental health services

so those are some of the outcomes that

we're looking at

um all of which will be assessed by kind

of level of spirituality

which includes church attendance prayer

frequency of you know importance of

spirituality

and other variables like that

i have to think that doing all of that

work and measuring those outcomes

goes back to changing the paradigm is

that then you can use that and people

can use that to share stories

to help to prove that there is there

that this help does work and it is

effective and that might

over time hopefully combat some of that

distrust

absolutely i i absolutely believe and

the evidence

suggests that the one of the most

effective ways

at reducing stigma is through contact

with someone who

has had a mental health problem has

gotten treatment

and has gotten better yeah so there is

there is strong evidence that those

stories

uh move people's hearts and minds

in a way that education in and of itself

just cannot

and so one of the things i'm really

excited about is is developing

strategies to have people share that's

their stories uh and to measure the

impact that it has on behavior change on

attitudes and on

uh actually people seeking treatment

wow well you truly are an expert and

and i'm so grateful to have you on this

series talking about these important

issues i hope that we get to stay close

and stay connected to you because uh

you're doing

some of the most important work right

now that needs to be done and it's

it's healing and it's healing you know

interpersonally but it's

also healing communities and it's

it's hard and uh i commend you for

really diving into the hard work because

my guess is is that you could be sitting

in an office

seeing patients and that they're not

saying there's anything wrong people

that do that but there could be an

uh you could have taken an easier path

and you're choosing a path to really

make a difference and leave a legacy so

thank you thank you my pleasure and

thank you so much for your kind words

and i think platforms like psych hub

really

uh give people access to

the type of information that they

normally wouldn't have so it's a

pleasure to be able to be

with you all today as always

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