Smash Your Idols: Worshipping the True Christ - With Fr. Turbo Qualls

Summary

In this profound discussion, Father Tero, a missionary priest, shares insights on the challenges and processes of bringing individuals into the Orthodox Church. He emphasizes the importance of proper catechesis and spiritual warfare, highlighting the need to dismantle misconceptions about Christ and embrace the transformative journey of repentance and submission to God. The conversation underscores the significance of experiencing the true joy found in Christ, beyond worldly happiness, and the responsibility of the Orthodox community to maintain the purity of faith amidst modern distortions.

Takeaways

• 😇 The importance of proper catechesis and initiation into the Orthodox Church is emphasized, as it sets the foundation for spiritual growth and understanding of the faith.
• 🛡️ The spiritual struggle and the necessity of recognizing and dismantling false perceptions of Christ and the Church are crucial for true conversion and spiritual maturity.
• 🌐 The Orthodox Church is presented as the authentic path to Christ, offering a fullness of worship and spiritual life that aligns with the teachings of Christ and the Holy Tradition.
• 💔 The prevalence of 'inoculated' individuals with a distorted or incomplete understanding of Christ and the Bible is a significant challenge in modern missionary work.
• 🔥 The transformative power of the Cross and the necessity of embracing pain and sacrifice as part of the spiritual journey towards Christ are highlighted.
• 👨‍🏫 The role of priests and teachers in guiding individuals through the process of becoming true disciples of Christ, emphasizing the importance of self-knowledge and repentance.
• 🌟 The Orthodox ethos is described as a beacon of light against the darkness of worldly mindsets and the influence of the enemy, requiring commitment and community.
• 🕊️ The concept of joy in the spiritual life is explored, contrasting the superficial happiness of the world with the deep, inexpressible joy found in Christ through struggle and sacrifice.
• 📚 The upcoming book on the reception of the heterodox is mentioned as an essential resource for building the Church, focusing on proper catechesis and the salvation of souls.
• 🚫 The dangers of improper reception into the Church, leading to spiritual defects and a distorted practice of faith, are discussed, underscoring the need for thorough preparation and understanding.
• ⚔️ The spiritual warfare that new converts face is acknowledged, with the call for catechists to equip individuals with the necessary tools to navigate the challenges of living a Christian life.

Q & A

What is the primary focus of the discussion between the host and Father Tero?

The primary focus of the discussion is the process of bringing people into the Orthodox Church, particularly in America, and the challenges faced in guiding individuals from the world and its passions towards a deeper spiritual life in Christ.

How does Father Tero describe the current situation in terms of people's understanding of Christianity?

Father Tero describes the current situation as post-Christian or even akin to an Apostolic time, where many people are unfamiliar with basic Bible stories and have little to no understanding of who Christ is, often holding misconceptions or 'inoculated' ideas about Christianity.

What does Father Tero mean by 'inoculated' in the context of people's understanding of Christ?

By 'inoculated,' Father Tero refers to the dangerous misconceptions people have about Christ due to limited or distorted exposure, often from media or people who do not truly follow Christ. These misconceptions create a resistance to the true teachings of the Church.

What is the significance of the 'Trenches' metaphor used by Father Tero?

The 'Trenches' metaphor signifies the challenging and frontline work of missionaries and priests in guiding people towards the Orthodox faith, especially in a culture that is increasingly distant from traditional Christian values.

Why is the process of catechesis important for new converts to Orthodoxy?

The process of catechesis is important because it systematically introduces new converts to the teachings, practices, and spiritual life of the Orthodox Church, helping them to transition from worldly mindsets and passions towards a life centered on Christ.

What role do the Saints play in the spiritual journey of Orthodox Christians?

The Saints serve as examples and models of how to live a life in Christ, showing the path of theosis or becoming more like Christ. Their lives provide guidance and inspiration for Orthodox Christians to emulate in their own spiritual journeys.

How does Father Tero address the issue of people seeking happiness in the Church?

Father Tero emphasizes that the joy found in the Church is not the same as worldly happiness. It is a deeper, inexpressible joy that comes from struggling with and overcoming one's passions, not from seeking immediate gratification or superficial pleasures.

What is the significance of the 'kiss of Eternity' mentioned by the host?

The 'kiss of Eternity' refers to the transformative, resurrectional grace experienced by those who deeply engage with the spiritual life of the Orthodox Church. It is the tangible experience of the eternal, divine love that transcends temporal existence.

Why is the concept of repentance essential in the spiritual life according to the discussion?

Repentance is essential because it is the process of turning away from sin and worldly ways towards God. It is a continuous journey of self-examination, confession, and amendment of one's life, which is necessary for spiritual growth and union with Christ.

What challenges do converts face in their journey towards deeper life in Christ?

Converts face challenges such as dismantling preconceived notions about Christ, embracing the reality of spiritual warfare, understanding the necessity of repentance, and learning to discern true joy from worldly happiness. They also grapple with the balance between the vertical relationship with God and the horizontal relationships with fellow human beings.

How can the Orthodox Church better support those on their spiritual journey?

The Orthodox Church can better support spiritual seekers by providing thorough catechesis, emphasizing the importance of repentance and self-knowledge, fostering a deep understanding of the lives of the Saints, and equipping believers with the tools to engage in spiritual warfare and discern God's will in their lives.

Outlines

00:00

🤝 Welcoming Father Tero to Orthodox E

The host expresses gratitude to Father Tero for joining the Orthodox E show, reflecting on their previous encounter on Father Tero's show. They discuss the importance of Father Tero's mission in Kansas City, likened to the 'Heart of America,' to bring Americans to the Orthodox Church. The conversation emphasizes the challenge of transitioning people from worldly mindsets to seeking Christ and the spiritual life within the church, especially in missionary lands like America. The host is interested in discussing the process of catechesis and spiritual growth from the perspective of a priest, missionary, and teacher, and how listeners can deepen their life in Christ.

05:01

🌟 The Struggle of Modern Catechesis

Father Tero acknowledges the difficulty of modern catechesis, particularly in a post-Christian era where many people lack basic biblical knowledge. He discusses the challenge of dealing with individuals who have been 'inoculated' with misconceptions about Christianity and Christ's identity, shaped by media and societal influences. The conversation highlights the need to dismantle these false perceptions and the importance of teaching the true identity of Christ and the Orthodox understanding of repentance and salvation.

10:02

🛡 The Battle Against Idols and False Perceptions

The discussion delves into the struggle to break down the idols and false barriers that people have built around their understanding of Christ. It emphasizes the need to counter the distorted views of Christ as merely a moral teacher or a figure of judgment. Father Tero shares experiences where people resist the Orthodox teachings on marriage and morality, reflecting societal hostility towards traditional Christian values. The conversation underscores the importance of guiding people towards a true understanding of Christ and His commandments for a rich and fulfilling spiritual life.

15:03

🕯 The Transformative Power of Christ's Light

Father Tero speaks about the transformative power of Christ's light, which can dissolve the darkness that holds people captive. He emphasizes the importance of self-knowledge and the necessity for individuals to see themselves as they truly are. The conversation touches on the pain and discomfort that can come from encountering holiness and the grace of God, which is often misunderstood in a hedonistic culture that seeks to avoid pain at all costs.

20:06

🎭 The Complexity of Orthodoxy and the Simplicity of Christ's Life

The discussion explores the perceived complexity of Orthodoxy through the lens of the world and the importance of understanding the simplicity of life in Christ. Father Tero addresses the challenges of teaching about the lives of the Saints and the dangers of over-intellectualizing their narratives, which can lead to a disconnect from the incarnational aspect of their experiences. The conversation highlights the need for trust in Christ, the Saints, and the Church, despite societal messages that discourage such trust.

25:06

🔗 The Importance of Trust and Community in the Orthodox Faith

Father Tero discusses the importance of trust in the Orthodox faith, particularly in Christ, the Saints, and the Church. He addresses the challenges of fostering trust, especially in a world that has burned many people through untrustworthy actions. The conversation emphasizes the need for patience and bearing the burdens of one another as part of the Christian journey. It also touches on the transformative power of Christ, who reveals the truth and challenges individuals to confront their own darkness and sinfulness.

30:07

🛐 The Orthodox Church as the Path to True Submission to Christ

The discussion centers on the Orthodox Church as the sole path to true submission to Christ, which is essential for discerning the Antichrist and recognizing true beauty and goodness. Father Tero shares insights from his experiences in Greece with Elders who exemplified the fruits of the spirit in their every action and being. The conversation highlights the importance of recognizing and embracing the transformative journey from the image to the likeness of Christ through theosis.

35:07

🚀 The Spiritual Struggle and the Fruits of the Spirit

Father Tero emphasizes the importance of spiritual struggle and the necessity of recognizing the fruits of the spirit in one's life. He discusses the dangers of complacency and the need for continuous self-examination and spiritual growth. The conversation also addresses the challenges of attrition within the Church and the importance of proper catechesis and initiation into the Orthodox faith to ensure spiritual maturity and resilience.

40:10

🛡 The War of Faith and the Need for Spiritual Preparedness

The discussion focuses on the spiritual war that believers face and the importance of being properly prepared for it. Father Tero stresses the responsibility of priests and catechists to equip believers with the tools necessary for spiritual warfare. The conversation highlights the dangers of not preparing believers adequately, leading to spiritual failure and a lack of resilience in the face of challenges.

45:12

🏆 The Orthodox Church and the Preservation of True Worship

Father Tero discusses the importance of the Orthodox Church in preserving the true worship of Christ, emphasizing the need for submission to Christ's teachings and the rejection of personal desires and worldly ideologies. The conversation touches on the troubling trend of individuals and groups distorting Orthodox teachings and the need for self-reflection and repentance to maintain the purity of the faith.

50:13

📚 The Upcoming Book on the Reception of the Heterodox

The host and Father Tero discuss an upcoming book on the reception of the heterodox, which aims to provide comprehensive guidance on integrating those from non-Orthodox backgrounds into the Orthodox Church. The book, supported by Anam Press, is seen as an essential resource for the Church, addressing the spiritual needs of the times and focusing on the salvation of souls and the proclamation of the gospel.

Keywords

💡Catechesis

Catechesis refers to the religious education and instruction of individuals in the principles and practices of Christianity. In the context of the video, it is about guiding individuals to understand and embrace the Orthodox faith, emphasizing the importance of proper catechesis in preparing individuals for a life of spiritual struggle and growth within the Church.

💡Repentance

Repentance is the act of feeling regret or remorse for one's actions and seeking to make amends. It is a central theme in the video, where the process of repentance is discussed as a necessary step for individuals to turn away from worldly passions and towards a life in Christ, exemplified by the speaker's emphasis on the transformative power of repentance in the spiritual journey.

💡Theosis

Theosis, also known as deification, is the process of becoming more like God through participation in divine life. It is a key concept in Orthodox theology and is mentioned in the video as the ultimate goal of the spiritual life, where believers are transformed from the image of God to His likeness through purification and illumination.

💡Spiritual Warfare

Spiritual warfare refers to the struggle against evil, including sin, temptation, and the devil. In the video, it is discussed as an inevitable part of the Christian life, where believers must engage in a sober and conscious battle to resist the forces that would lead them away from Christ and towards spiritual maturity.

💡Apostolic Times

The term 'Apostolic Times' is used in the video to describe a period when the Christian faith was first being spread and established. It is used metaphorically to describe the current situation of evangelism in post-Christian societies, where many people are unfamiliar with basic Christian concepts, similar to the challenges faced by the early apostles.

💡Idolatry

Idolatry, in a religious context, is the worship of idols or false gods. In the video, it is discussed as a metaphor for the false perceptions and misconceptions about Christ and the Christian faith that individuals must overcome. The speakers talk about 'smashing idols' to represent the need to dismantle these false beliefs to embrace the true teachings of the Church.

💡Hagiography

Hagiography refers to the biography of a saint, often with an emphasis on their virtuous life and deeds. In the video, the study of hagiography is encouraged as a means for believers to learn from the examples set by the saints, understanding how to live a life of faith and virtue within the Orthodox tradition.

💡Pantocrator Icon

The Pantocrator Icon is a depiction of Christ as the Almighty, often portrayed with a stern expression to convey divine authority. In the video, the Pantocrator Icon is used as a symbol to discuss the dual nature of Christ's love and judgment, emphasizing that a balanced understanding of Christ is necessary to avoid falling into the extremes of perceiving Him solely as a figure of blessing or law.

💡Attrition Rate

Attrition rate refers to the rate at which individuals leave a particular group or organization. In the context of the video, it is used to express concern about the number of people who, after being introduced to Orthodoxy, ultimately leave the faith, highlighting the need for effective catechesis and spiritual formation to retain new believers.

💡Joy

In the video, 'joy' is discussed in contrast to the worldly concept of happiness. The speakers emphasize that the joy found in Christ is deeper and more enduring than fleeting worldly pleasures. It is described as 'inexpressible and full of glory,' a joy that comes from participating in the divine life and overcoming spiritual struggles.

Highlights

Father Tero discusses the importance of bringing Americans into the Orthodox Church and the challenges faced in doing so.

The role of a missionary in guiding people from worldly mindsets to seeking Christ and the spiritual life within the Orthodox Church.

The process of catechesis and initiating individuals into the life of the church, especially in missionary lands like America.

The necessity of dismantling preconceived notions and idols about Christ before truly understanding who He is.

The dangers of a superficial understanding of Christ, leading to misconceptions and a lack of depth in spiritual life.

The importance of recognizing the reality of spiritual warfare and the need for proper preparation in the Orthodox faith.

The transformative power of the Cross and the process of repentance as a means to experience the joy of salvation.

The contrast between the world's definition of happiness and the Orthodox understanding of true, spiritual joy.

The significance of self-knowledge and the necessity of embracing pain and struggle in the spiritual journey.

The role of the Holy Spirit in guiding and illuminating the path to Christ within the Orthodox tradition.

The importance of proper catechesis to avoid spiritual attrition and ensure a deep, lasting commitment to the faith.

The need for trust in the church, Christ, and the saints as a foundation for spiritual growth.

The challenge of discerning true spiritual joy from worldly happiness and the Orthodox path to fulfillment.

The discussion on the importance of living a life of submission to Christ as the key to discerning truth and beauty.

The concept of spiritual maturity as reflected in the lives of the Saints and the process of becoming more Christ-like.

The critical role of obedience and humility in the journey of Orthodox Christianity and spiritual warfare.

The final thoughts on the importance of proper initiation and ongoing spiritual formation within the Orthodox Church.

Transcripts

[Music]

spe

father Tero thank you so much for

joining us on the Orthodox e it's a joy

to have you now on this side we you had

me on your on your show and it was a joy

to be with you all and now we have you

with us on Orthodox thanks thanks for

joining us it's my joy father thank you

thank you for this opportunity I love

talking to you because you're in the

you're in the um the thick of the

struggle of of bringing the American

into the church that you're you're in

you're in the uh uh let's say the uh the

Battleground there in Kansas City Heart

of America said yeah the trenches The

Trenches that's the word I'm looking for

and you are uh dealing with something

that's very dear to our heart at

Orthodox Jesus and that is being a MOG

and bringing people step by step from

the world and the passions and the devil

and all the M the mindset of the world

and then they're seeking Christ and

you're bringing them step by step

through the cical process into the

church initiating them into the life of

the church and then in Into the Depths

of the spiritual life and that is that

whole process is so important and and so

much work can be done there today in the

church around the world but especially

among the missionary lands like America

and you know one by one the I think the

way the church approaches the world is

one by one and in community and every

Community little you know cell by cell

the spirit of God Reigns and therefore

the spirit of the enemy and the Darkness

is pushed back and the light shines

forth so it's it's so uh it's so

important so I'd like to talk to you

today about that that whole process and

and and from the perspective of a priest

a missionary a teacher how can we help

our brothers and sisters who are going

to be listening to this on the Orthodox

ethos how can we help them to if they're

catak humans especially but even those

who' gone through the process how can we

help them to realize what is this

process that we all have to go through

to go deeper into the life in Christ

what are we facing and maybe answer some

of the questions that we get all the

time about uh you know what's what we

what is the most important pillars of

that of that whole process yeah you know

honestly uh father I I think the answer

um may be somewhat unsatisfying for some

people and I think the fact if it is

unsatisfying that's telling in of itself

and that is

Christ and becoming a disciple of Christ

and in our context so many people

they've receive what I call an

inoculation and even though we're living

in times that are

really I mean Beyond post-christian I I

encounter people shockingly often who do

not know basic Bible stories so in many

ways we are facing a kind of you know

Apostolic time in regards of dealing

with people converting people who are

you know all but Pagan really um they

may have some Similan of understanding

their Grandma maybe or an aunt maybe but

they don't know the basic Bible stories

and more importantly with that they

really have no idea who Christ is and in

a in an actual literal sense I'm not

being hyperbolic you know there's so

that's a that's a different kind of

catechism isn't it because a lot of

times we're thinking and up to this

point most people talk about missionary

work they're talking about to the

heterodox in other words there are

heterodox people who are coming to the

church saying I want to become Orthodox

and you're starting with a lot you know

basic stuff is there and you just need

to you know

reorient but now you're saying that

there's increasingly a whole generation

of people who don't understand basic

like Christian Concepts correct and

again this word I used inoculation is

key because what little bit they do have

is dangerous

because they think they they have a very

strong Assumption of well I already know

who Christ is I've heard this or that

I've Seen On TV more importantly they

have this apprehension of Christ through

people who the who they themselves don't

have Christ right so maybe what they've

seen on TV through social media or the

many of people who um you know the

enemies of Christ that are dominating

social media and the airwaves and the

Public Square um this is where people

are getting their idea of who Christ is

um what would you say for most people

who is Christ those people you're

talking about what are they is just a

moral teacher is he a Christ is Christ

is a moral teacher um Christ often is um

seen as this caricature

of you know a kind of um ancient

spiritual Mr Rogers how people would

interpret Mr Rogers right so you have

these EX dreams um you're familiar with

this um where people have you know if if

you've ever you know the the pantr icon

of Sinai and then if you split the

pantocrator icon and then you know you

mirror it and this is what this is what

you see you have people who they want

all blessing they they see Christ as all

blessing everything goes or you see

people where it's all law and you know

they see Christ as Zeus who's looking to

strike you down because you crossed the

street the wrong way and these extremes

none of them are true are what I'm

talking about this is what this is what

you know you find uh is is more common

than not to encounter with people and

it's dangerous because the one on the

one hand where someone just says well

you know uh what you are talking about

in regard to repentance primarily that

sounds really judgy that doesn't sound

like Jesus right and so it's they love

it when they want to quote Christ um

coming to the defense of the woman

caught in adultery they love it when he

says you know he who has sin Let Him

cast a first stone but they forget the

portion when he turns to her and says go

and sin no more you know this is how it

characterize that and it's interesting I

have experiences tons I see I bet you

have tons of experiences there's so many

experiences where uh I just talking to

two or three priests and they told me

stories that exactly what you're talking

about like people when they hear the of

boundaries when they hear of Dogma when

they hear of the need to

repentance they hear not love but the

lack of love there's no love father in

what you're saying yes yes and and

that's amazing because we have to ba we

have to break down all these Idols they

have like there's been Idols built which

have nothing to do with the reality or

with Christ who Christ is and you have

to dismantle them essentially before you

to Father these idols and these barriers

these these

obstacles um they keep Christ at Bay in

a lot of ways um one of the ways is that

if someone does have an understanding of

Christ or they are open to you know some

sort of quote unquote religious facet of

Life they see um a false dichotomy being

something that's you know necessary so

in other words well that's like kind of

nice to have that religious moral idea

of Christ but that doesn't play out in

my everyday life that that's and this

gets into things like for instance um

like in my context and and I think in a

lot of people's growing context right um

the reality of let's say

marriage and what is marriage and how

marriage is actually one of the the the

one of the portals to the path of of of

theosis of of you know holy blessed

sacramental marriage right and all our

whole society is um you know energized

by the by the evil one to not only you

know to some degree disregard marriage

in a traditional Christian sacramental

sense but to be hostile to it and and

this is one of those great examples

where it's it's a tactic that keeps

people from hearing the word from the

Lord to repent and saying like no that's

outdated no that that doesn't apply uh

no you know I don't I don't the church

has no business saying what going on you

know in my life these things like that

and it keeps them from the rich life

that Christ promises those who keep his

Commandments you know it makes total

sense that if we have a total Distortion

of Christ we're going to have a

distortion of the Mysteries because

Christ is given and gives himself in

every mystery we're going to have a

distortion of the church because he is

the body of Christ the church is the

body of Christ rather and then we're

going to have a distortion of you know

Salvation because marriage what is it

it's a path to Salvation yes everything

the church does is about salvation

everything Christ did was about our

Salvation so it it is uh so one of the

things I'm hearing you saying is that

one of the first things and the most

important things that you can do it as a

mogue as a priest or teacher initiating

people into the mystery of Christ is you

have to dismantle the idols you have to

smash the idols and you got to get rid

you got to get rid of those so they can

then wait a minute I need to look at

this whole a new I start over scr from

scratch right yes and and what happens

is once that begins people can now begin

to see how they've been held captive

that the darkness that they've been

living in is a real darkness and that it

isn't you know uh just uh Sim quote

unquote metaphorical but it has real

life impacts on them and I think this is

really important father

because even for people who are coming

to the church let's say someone's coming

to the church and and they

see um they see the chaos and they and

they they can feel the tangible darkness

in society

right but it isn't just simply enough to

try to get on the right side

ideologically quote unquote because even

then you're heart and the place where

the kingdom of God is

birthed even then there are these areas

in which people have these boundaries up

and those boundaries only come down when

you begin to see Christ as he is not as

you want him to be and many people on

the other end of it they want to wield

Christ in certain ways you know um sons

of ska almost you know and and and not

understand that number one the power of

Christ and who he is and and that Christ

is light and that you know our God is a

consuming fire that that fire when it

consumes yes it burns up sin but also it

it it brings to life these parts of our

being our hearts that have been frozen

because of the coldness the indifference

and the lawlessness that they're

encountering right because the

lawlessness can oftentimes motivate

people and they want to find um not so

different from the zealots they want to

uh you know in in the in the early

centuries they want to find a Christ

that's going to bring you know a

political leader to them and this is

just as much a part of finding and and

showing them who Christ really is so

that they can enter into the Mysteries

and and experience that resurrectional

life that's necessary that Pledge of the

spirit you know because without it and

this is this is something else that I

think is

important this idea and that tension of

your life in the Orthodox Church needs

to Bear the fruit of some sort of what I

call like the kiss of Eternity where you

feel and you and and you experience that

transformative

resurrectional Grace in your life like

St Simeon the new theion talks about you

know it's like it isn't just relegated

for those you know for monastics and

such it's it's for all those who would

seek to come and enter into the

Mysteries and partake of the Divine fire

right right so so the second thing I'm

hearing is that in order for someone to

smash the idol see Christ as he is and

therefore be free he's got to also be

prepared to see himself as he is there's

no other way come to self- knowledge and

that's a frightening thing for a lot of

people it is it is and it and it's for

everyone it's for everyone it's it's for

someone who is you know neck deep in you

know the kind of carnal sins the the the

the Temptations from the left and those

who are you know coming and and they see

them you know they're they're good

citizens you know they're they're

escaping the the liberal you know tide

of the day but they still are in need of

repentance as well and and I think this

is really key because showing people who

Christ is and that once you see once you

begin to see Christ you begin to see

yourself and then here here's the thing

in my mind in my experience one of the

most important things about catechizing

someone and preparing their soul to

encounter Christ is that the grace Burns

and you often times you the tradition of

the

church the aesthetic thread that's baked

through the the tradition of the church

it's there for a reason it's there

because without it you don't gain the

stamina to encounter Holiness and that's

another thing is that the encounter with

Holiness is often times painful but pain

and discomfort is not inherently bad or

evil and in fact this is one of the

problems with our culture is that we're

so

hedonistic at our core um and you see

this across the board father whether

it's unfortunate practices that many

people get involved with you know via

images in the internet or even seeing

you know certain people from certain

schools of thought of mental health

which teach them anything that makes you

uncomfortable get away from it if you

want to be healthy you know

psychologically you just need to find a

context that assuages and you know

affirms everything that you that you

feel needs to be affirmed well the whole

society father is telling us we need

painkillers right we need painkillers

across the board that's that's That's

essential to get through the day we take

various medicines various drugs we uh we

basically are numbed by

watching the various media we could you

know it's an Escape it's a consolation

temporary consolation so vast majority

of society is both engaged in it and and

has being shaped and and brainwashed

into thinking the way you're going to

enjoy this life and be happy is to avoid

pain so what you're telling them is

basically you know heresy quote unquote

from their perspective right what are

you telling me that true Joy is actually

through pain and suffering yep yep the

cross the cross is

is going to bring bring me joy how's

that work exactly when I'm avoiding it

in every other way right and it's

interesting because you give people

simple examples of well um depending on

their own personal contexts I say uh you

know if they work out I say you know

you're in shape how did you get that way

did you get that way by eating you know

twinkies and pizza and sitting on the

couch no pain no gain right no gain and

and and so that leads me to another

thing Father which is people they look

at Orthodoxy and they see the beauty but

because of the the broken lens that in

which the world has given them it it

they have a they see it through a very

fractured kind of

complexity and trying to get them to

understand no the life in Christ is

actually very simple and that Simplicity

is a huge part of becoming a disciple

because hubris actually can motivate

people to want to make things more

complicated right and people want to

complicate things because they want to

make they want to have something in

which you know they're

conquering and Jesus is the one who

conquers they want to justify things

right that's right status quo that's

right that's right and so getting them

to understand it's like no and this is

why it's so important this isn't about

how you are perceiving things this is

how the church has re receive the church

has taught and that experience this is

what you need to see and so that leads

also to getting them to understand the

Saints which I'll

say that can be a difficult thing

because a lot of people don't have a

framework they they have no concept of

reading the lives of the Saints and so

for them it seems more like fairy tales

than anything else and

unfortunately and I I understand this um

there's there's some contemporary kind

of like thought and movement that you

know in regards of taking some of the

abstract aspects of narrative and saying

well this is how the lives of the Saints

work and I see where they're going with

this but it's a dangerous road because

what you can get is you can get people

who want

to over intellectualize the lives of the

Saints which then neuters the aesthetic

aspect and the incarnational which I

think is the core thing the

incarnational aspect of the lives of the

Saints and that's very dangerous because

at that point then now you're only a few

steps removed from some of the kind of

psychological constructs that are

presented with young and other things

like that that you know can just say

well these are like archetypes and

things like that and that's that's very

dangerous because what's lurking behind

a lot of people's you know worldview are

are are new age understandings that

they're not even aware of it's Gnostic

and it's anti- incarnational it's anti-

incarnational right so absolutely so I'm

seeing that people are attracted the

Christ the church but then they've got

to come and deal with themselves come to

self- knowledge they've got to Embrace

pain so they're they're on they're on

the exactly opposite trajectory of the

world toward Christ toward true life

toward true Discovery and then they're

going to have to they're going to have

to trust that's the thing that you're

talking about here is what I'm hearing

you is saying well they got to trust but

trust is very hard for them because

they've been burned most people have

been burned left and right because

that's what the sinful world does it

burns people left and right because

they're all we're all you know

egotistical so they very hard it's very

hard to trust not only because there's

not very many trustworthy people it

seems like you know in society because

they're all ruled by their passions but

then we ourselves yes don't want to give

up and trust and we're saying well no

you have to trust the Saints right well

they're saying well the Saints who are

the Saints this is like fairy tale land

like you said so that's a huge

pedagogical and citical roadblock that

you got to face as a as a priest you

need to trust Christ that means trust

the saints that means trust the church

how many comments under our videos by

Protestants are like don't trust the

church don't trust tradition don't trust

the Saints you know only only only

Christ because and so what they don't

realize is that the Christ that they're

talking about doesn't exist like they're

trusting their own idea of Christ most

of the time and more importantly they

have no they do not have a Christian

understanding of of neighbor either

because it's it's this they have the uh

vertical of the Cross supposedly right

yeah me and Jesus me and Jesus I mean

forgive me this is a little bit of a let

me digress a little bit further this is

something else to also take in

mind a l even if someone does have an

understanding of Christ but let's just

say like they they have a little bit

more of a working knowledge

right

surprisingly now you're dealing with a

lot of people who are there's a growing

movement of people and you'll see these

people you know even kind of being more

quote unquote informed as they as they

would like to think of themselves um

they're they're refuting trinitarian

theology so the so there's even a

there's even a growing movement of

people who you know they'll take Jesus

but they reject the Trinity and so that

is a whole another thing that I'm

starting to encounter more in regards of

of speaking with people so anyways

getting back to it they have the

vertical so they think of me and god

let's say they think they got that

figured

out but you know the horizontal of of of

you and your fellow man the other part

of the Cross and they they miss out on

that and they don't understand that and

one of the best ways to understand what

it means to be you know a bearer of of

the Life of Christ is to begin to see

the the lives of the Saints because the

lives of the Saints are the ones who

show us how to live and when we begin to

see how to live then we can only then

live in proper Community but if we're

running on our own kind of idiocentric

ideas which a lot of people do then that

life of the cross the vertical and the

horizontal is oftentimes fractured and

broken so I I find those who embrace

becoming students of hagiography the

lives of the Saints they learn

to enter into the communion and the

fellowship of of the

body those who don't those who are a bit

resistant they tend to have a

very kind of idor rhythmic

idiocentric approach to the life in the

church which is again fundamentally not

incarnational you

know well we got we got te technical

issues over here but that's all right

that's not a big deal so uh then how do

you get how do you get people to to

trust I think that's the big issue for

me what I see again and again how do

they get how do people end up trusting

the church trusting Christ trusting the

saints that I think this is where um

it's it's those of us within the body

that are you know out there fishing and

cleaning the fish um both clergy and lay

people alike

this is where we have to really begin

engaging our own um inner life our own

aesthetical Endeavor and it's learning

to you know to Bear the burdens of one

another and to learn to be longsuffering

because by being

patient not in a sense of being passive

you know and indifferent but engaging in

in in being quick with the word of

Christ quick with you know the truth of

the church and and being able to be Al

light for these people as they begin to

navigate their lives kind of being

deconstructed because this is the other

thing when you begin to really approach

Christ right and I and I and this is key

father um whatever effort you put in if

you put in you know $1 doll the Lord

will put in a thousand you know it's

it's you can't outgive the Lord and so

when you begin to approach Christ and I

always warn people look you're

approaching the true Christ now and so

you know it's like um

uh Christ is not you know getting back

to who Christ is it's not this kind of

safe you know I can kind of package him

and kind of put him on the Shelf Christ

will begin to you know he is light and

when he shows up things are revealed and

you begin to see yourself and when you

begin to see yourself as you actually

are and you begin to see that you don't

have love you begin to see that you

aren't this great person you begin to

see that the life that you've been

living is filled with darkness and it's

destroying you and you're dying then

what happens is there's a real crisis

and that crisis is good and so this is

why it's necessary to teach people just

because you're uncomfortable that

doesn't mean something good isn't

happening that in fact this crisis is

precisely some of the evidence of Christ

in your life and so getting walking with

them and that's where we have to come in

and and and be steadfast with them and

just keep pointing them to the truth of

God's love the power of

repentance and that the transformative

power of the Cross you will Harbor you

will kind of Harbor the storm right in

the shadow of the cross two things from

the and from the says Des fathers come

to mind when you're talking about this

the one is that they would they would be

very uh they said you know if there's no

Temptations God has abandoned us that

was one of the things that you see that

the Saints would expect like that's that

means that I'm getting purified that

means god is dealing with me without

Temptations there's no salvation the

world thinks just the opposite if I have

temptations that I'm not being saved

that's right right then so that's a

totally opposite and then the second

thing is that it says somewhere I think

it's

St Ava longinus I think it is who says

have you seen your brother you've seen

your

lord uh so you know people think me and

Jesus like you said or they're looking

somewhere else outside of reality

outside of their society outside of

their family outside of their wife and

husband to find Christ to be with Christ

and yet they're right right in front of

you uh and and then if you think about

the Lord's words that you

know Temptations will come from man a

man's household like the the the

struggle and the it's right there in

front of us you know you cannot separate

the the the greatest command

Commandments and that is to love Lord

God with all your hearts mind and your

neighbors yourself that's the like you

said the vertical and the horizontal

they're Inseparable Inseparable you

cannot come to Christ with if you do not

embrace the the brother so it's all

right there in front of us and the thing

is Father you know it's it Bears witness

throughout the whole of your experience

when you come to the church

because listen we're all familiar with

this you know someone comes to the

church they are um enamored and Amazed

by the beauty of the church

which is

obvious but then that process of coming

in becoming a choir a cak human you know

getting catechized being obedient being

faithful being

consistent um the Romanticism can wear

off and

especially where we are so you know kind

of um uh fast

food spirituality fast food life

everything now everything quick um and

what I find is you know some people they

may even want to have um you know they

have a desire for experience quote

unquote but when you begin to try to

tell them look you know the the evidence

and you know the not only the evidence

of Christ but the evidence of your

transformation is going to be found in

the slow mundane

things the Liturgy right the Liturgy is

the most profound thing uh I believe

it's saying Gregor Theologian who said

that you know the Eucharist is the

center of the universe you mean you mean

if I don't like the Divine Liturgy I'm

not going to like heaven you're not

going to like heaven and if you and if

you can't learn to find God in Stillness

if you can't learn to find God in what

what eventually becomes known and

familiar to you you're not gonna ever

find God right and it's it's really

important to understand that father

you're just a narrow-minded you know

bigoted uh Orthodox who who you know how

can you tell me who you know how don't

you get a lot of that oh

yeah get a lot of P push back and say

well why do you think you have a like a

a what do they say a a monopoly on God

or something yeah yeah and and what's

interesting is again um I would say look

at the fruit though look at the fruit

and the fruit unfortunately for a lot of

people gets lost in the mix and what I

mean by that is getting past

because having arguments and and having

talking points is is great but when it

comes down getting back to catechizing

and when it gets down to Brass tax it's

preparing someone on how to enter into

the

Mysteries and that goes beyond your own

speculation it goes beyond your own

opinion it goes beyond you and that's

where the Reber begins to meet the road

because you need to and that's the thing

I this is a common thing I tell people I

say you know because every every group

of cumans you know there's there's the

one or a couple or depending who they're

still struggling with that kind of

American prestant mindset of like well I

know best who you're going to tell me

blah blah blah and I always tell them I

say look around everyone here including

me has bent the

knee there's no other way every knee

shall bow and every tongue shall confess

in the church we've already bent the

knee it's already a done

Paul says the church submits to Christ

that's right if you're in the church

that's your stance that's right

submission to Christ that's right and

father I just want to say this this is

really really really important um that

submission to Christ is everything

because only those who have submitted to

Christ and and you can only find that

true submission in the Orthodox church

because the Orthodox Church alone has

the means by which you learn to submit

your whole life to Christ

not just the external but the heart more

importantly and that's the only way to

discern Antichrist that's the only way

to discern what is true that's the only

way to discern what is truly beautiful

and good beauty is the revelation of

Christ true beauty is his

Revelation so if you don't have that if

you don't know how to submit to Christ

you have nothing you have nothing so

let's talk a little about the fruits

because I I I um you know had the one of

many many many people but I did have the

blessing of of spending a number of

occasions with elder friend when I

visited here in in Greece and so one of

the things I noticed very quickly and

I've said this many times but to get to

the point of the fruit because I think

what's important for us is to be able to

take sit back and take our temperature

spiritually like we want to know am I

making progress right or is it just like

going in motion or is it just like I'm

just playing the role or you know I'm a

moral good person that that what Sal

salvation is so many people I think just

get they they they're running and

eventually they get tired and then they

sit back on their heels and they say

look I'm in the church and I'm doing

everything right it's enough like let me

go drink my beer and watch my football

game on Sunday after church because I'm

doing what I did enough all right I've

arrived I'm in the church it's enough

right isn't that don't people get a

little complacent get a little I think

it's a big Temptation because hey after

all I'm better than everybody else

because I'm an orthodox right little

fical moment of reflection but the

fruits are really interesting I so I saw

in Elder of friend among other great

Elders that on AOS what you saw with the

fruits and what were the fruits to me

and what I this is how I understood it

is

that in his every fiber in his breathing

in his way he sat the way he spoke the

way he looked at you the way you know

his thoughts words Deeds impulses

glances decisions desires you know in

the in the UN let's say the unconscious

person yeah right the person who just is

the inner man who just exists you saw

the holy you felt and saw the presence

of God it wasn't like oh he was such an

amazing speaker or or he was so

convincing because his catechism his

speeches just blew me away and I just no

it wasn't it wasn't like that I mean he

there gifts like that that God gives to

people but that's not where it's that's

not where you can tell that this person

has been initiated into the mystery and

lives the mystery and has gone from the

image to likeness right which is theosis

right how when we go from the we're all

given the recration of the image right

we're all everybody who's in the church

has been restored the image has been

restored right but then we fill it we

fill it up again with garbage because

that's we go back to the vomit but the

the whole process of the church is to go

from the image now and then like Adam

would have if he had continued arrive at

the likeness and that's what happens in

the lives of the Saints and that's what

Christ did of course he he was the The

Perfect Image in likess he's called so

the fruits are in the whole person

that's where you know oh he's made

progress look he's transformed so maybe

uh is a big part of the cical process is

hopefully that over time we're taking

our temperature we're looking at the

fruits we're looking at ourselves in the

mirror we're not just seeing this Fallen

sick human being anymore actually

somebody somebody who well before I was

baptized I was plagued by this sin I

don't do that sin anymore right before I

was baptized I thought about I had all

these doubts or I had all these thoughts

I was judging left I don't do that

anymore and we should be able to say I

don't do that anymore right we should

it's we should be cognizant of the

effect and the fruit of the spirit in

our life otherwise what is this like a

mirage like a dream we're living in

right right and not only should you be

able to say you know I I've left this

behind

but you should also say and I still have

more to go yes and that's I think that's

where the complacency for a lot of

people comes into play they don't want

to face the struggle ahead they want to

face the struggle ahead they think oh

it's it's good enough and I know this

seems redundant father I know it seems

like kind of like a circular knowledge

but forgive me I mean this is this is

just what I have and then and this is

what I know because I'm in the church

first and foremost I'm Orthodox first

and foremost

and then as a priest I'm not I'm not uh

I'm not a particularly you know

articulate man intelligent Man educated

man but I I love Christ he saved me he

saved me and he who has been forgiven

much loves much and that's why I mean I

know it seems you know like kind of a

one trick pony but really for me Christ

is everything because when you acquire

the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit point

the Holy Spirit illumines and points you

to Christ when you pursue the father you

can only pursue the father through

through the son Christ becomes this this

Source all the all in all and that's

what I find is lacking for people they

they will come

in and they're like I'm good I'm

Orthodox and this and that and they can

be there for a

while but they're comes to this point

where it's like they return to the vomit

like you said and the only reason why

anyone ever does is because they're

lacking in love for Christ I know that's

harsh to say I know that people are

going to be offended if they hear that

but I'm telling you from

experience the consistent thing that I

see is a lack of love for Christ right

because you can hate your sin all you

want and that's really good and it's

necessary but if you don't have love for

Christ right then you just become you

know a Pharisee you be it becomes about

how how great you can see how great you

appear in your own eyes maybe that's one

of the keys of people falling away or

just being stagnant is that they don't

have they don't live for and in Christ

they begin to become religious yes yes

and then and then they they say well you

know the externals and the least common

denominator what I have to do and uh uh

you know uh or whatever and though

that's where I I love the term St pus

gives us

Fimo

that's that's the that's the key because

you can see that like somebody who just

we've met people in our life I hope

we've all met people in life where

they're just on fire for Zeal they just

want to do everything for Christ for the

truth they just they live it and they're

sacrificing left and right and they're

not thinking about the sacrifice they're

not they're not calculating how much

would it cost me why you know what is it

going to cost me to sacrifice for Christ

that's the Fimo that St pus talks about

we need to just do it for the love of

Christ they ask us to go one mile we go

two and we don't think about it we don't

see oh let's see how much is it going to

cost me to do that and so if we have

that then I think that's a good sign

that we're doing it for Christ and in

Christ and and and it's and it's that's

transformative then like that transforms

P people from humans to Divine humans

like love you know the fathers uh will

give this uh process right uh obviously

we're familiar with you know

purification illumination you know

theosis deification but they also speak

about you know the

slave the servant of the Sun and and

take a little bit of Liberty and I I

presented to people in this way the

slave the

soldier and and the Son and the reason

why I do that is because slave and

servant are very similar in our context

to the modern year and Soldier kind of

approximates a little bit more the

fathers are saying you know the slave

operates and works out of fear of

punishment and the soldier when I say

the soldier he's operating out of you

know reward you know and that can come

in all kinds of you know ways and not

just kind of like material game but also

you know notoriety Fame all that stuff

but then there's the sun and the sun has

photo what was the what was the was the

name of the soul the the military guy in

Russia just just bolted U Gren oh yeah

Gren yeah yeah they were saying people

were online saying well you know he it

was big about it about money because you

know he was a mercenary right so that's

it and that's it there you go you see

that in the soldiers you know it's like

Fame get big name and Soldier like

Napoleon or whatever but and then

there's also the money so yeah that's

that's the desire they want to they want

to earn Heaven they want the reward of

Heaven that's it and and I think that's

very helpful that's a patristic kind of

you know metric that's helpful

because anyone can look at themselves

and be and if you're honest you can say

like I'm still a slave or like yeah I'm

definitely a soldier or you can say like

you know God help me but I I think I

think I'm getting there to be a son and

that's what you want you want to get to

this point where you're you're operating

and you're seeking only to

to out of love for your heavenly father

you know so out of love for your king

you know so so they they come to the

church they go through a whole catechal

program they're learning about the

church but they're also learning how to

live the life of the church yes and a

big part of this is learning that this

is now the

beginning that your baptism is the

beginning not the end and that's I

really try to emphasize that with people

because you know people they can feel

like okay I've worked hard quote unquote

worked hard and now here I am I've kind

of arrived let me just catch let me

relax a little bit and I'm like no no no

because now really um that you were

already on the devil's radar but now

it's it's on and so well it would be

equivalent of like okay the can you

think of a soldier who goes through boot

camp and then says okay now I'm done

like you're just starting that's right

now you know how to use your now you

know how to use your weapons now you

know you're going to war now now the war

begins before you were being trained for

it now you're actually engaged in it

that's right that's right and and this

this is a key thing too because you know

I try to walk a I try to walk a you know

rle path with this but um there is a

reality and this is a key thing for me

you know as a catechist is really

Awakening people to um the war because

it isn't you know there's this balance

where some people they come in and they

can have you know especially they come

from like let's say a charismatic

background let's say right um they can

have an overdeveloped sense of you know

their kind of radar for evil where they

view they think the devil is under every

Rock right and you know it's really

every other Rock right the devil's the

devil's there and so getting them to

understand it's like look okay this this

catechism has really been about you

understanding the need for your

purification how purification is going

to affect you what it looks like and the

purification the fruit of it is being

able to see Christ and being able to

enter into the Mysteries and participate

okay that's great but once you come in

it's very important that they understand

now you need to really learn how to

engage spiritual warfare in a sober

sense sober sense right and really begin

to understand how the devil is going to

try to

undermine this develop velopment and

this process this this process of

Salvation because yes you have your

passions yes you have the world but once

you become an Orthodox Christian and in

particular if I'm trying to with God's

help and through the work of the Holy

Spirit and gender Zeal for Christ and

repentance in the life of the newly

illumined it's on as we say it's on and

that war it's a crime to not properly

prepare someone for that war exactly

it's they're going to get hit they're

GNA well if we as priests uh dumb down

things so low that we make catechism

into basically a you know Orthodoxy 101

College freshman course where you learn

about the church and then we you say oh

do you want to be a Christian oh yeah

I'd like to be CH okay there there're

we'll baptize you next week if that's

what we're doing and then they fall away

who who's responsible for that father

that's right that's right we're

responsible for that and and God you

imagine a general a general taking a

whole bunch of unequipped soldiers into

war and then blaming the soldiers when

they hadn't been trained properly yeah

yeah it's it's it's truly tragic and I

think that's the thing because you know

father um as you know we've talked about

this before and everyone kind of knows

uh Orthodoxy is on fire right now you

know there's so many people who are

interested in learning and it's it's

wonderful but I think the reality is is

and this is what I don't hear people

talking a lot about so maybe you know

just bringing in up here the attrition

rate you don't really hear people

talking about the attrition rate and

there's an attrition rate there is and

and that's you know God help us that's

that's that that's a scandal and that's

tragic you know this attrition rate and

I think this is one of the reasons why

this that people would be first and

foremost properly received in the church

I mean that's that's the key for so much

father we are focused on in our work

here Orthodox ethos we're focused so

much on two basic things that we see the

church at least from our perspective is

in big need and that is the whole

question of catechism on all of its

levels both before and after baptism and

then the actual initiation proper

initiation into the life of the church

through the Mysteries because I think

that it is so we're so I don't know how

to say it just we're so weak and so

compromised in so many ways in in that

area and of course that's the foundation

so if you're building on

sand you might put up something really

quick right you might be able to put

something up it's but it's GNA be it's

going to be just a few moments maybe you

know in time until the earthquake comes

and that thing is just pieces that's

going to be it's be rubble and I think

we saw that with Co right in many ways

like we did and for give me father if I

could just kind of throw in a couple

things that I've seen over the years

just a couple things that I think might

be interesting one of the things that I

find very fascinating is that this issue

of proper reception is really key

because obviously number one um it's a

problem like everywhere you know people

and and really people meeting well

priest meeting well they don't they

don't really understand how important

this is yeah right yeah and I will just

share some things that I think are

really um I I think maybe some people

aren't thinking about in regard to

this besides all the things which you've

talked about at length and in depth

about you know issues in regards of

um proper reception within the church

one of the things that people I don't I

don't think it's on their radar is that

when someone enters into the church

improperly not only are you depriving

them

of Grace

honestly but you are

now setting up a

presupposition by which that person may

or may not begin to

interpret

practice as you know something of a of a

kind of personal nature do you

understand what I'm saying you're

teaching them methodology or an approach

which is not Orthodox it's not Orthodox

and what happens is now they're they're

they're entering into the life with a

with a serious

defect and that defect will begin to

then really kind of

color every aspect of their life in

Christ and this is where you this is

where you see things that should be

rudimentary and fundamental in regards

of you know developing a developing the

life in Christ

repentance you know and even things

forgive me for other things like joy

things like discernment you know what I

mean these things become

distorted and and we really are giving

we're really setting up people to to

have these birth

defects and when this when this

happens the the consequences are often

very dire because these people will have

children these people will begin to now

have positions in the church

church and these um places of influence

both in a natural sense of having a

family and having influence in the life

of a parish if someone doesn't even

realize that they have this kind of like

handicap right they're presenting

something that can be in many ways

fundamentally distorted right and you

see this when it gets down to now crisis

right when the Holy Spirit illumines the

Confessor and says look

this is an issue in your life you need

to approach it this way they don't have

the faculty of obedience they don't have

the faculty to really receive what's

being said to them noetic right and so

it's not they don't even necessarily

need to be Protestants right but just

this inability to really enter into that

blessing of

obedience to really receive healing to

really navigate the Warfare to really

you know be

given an even deeper path of repentance

it's it's it's hindered for them so an

improper a a a um partial or very weak

catechism and an improper initiation

sets up the people for failure

spiritually it sets them up for failure

for failure spiritually and then they uh

are are very much hampered to to respond

to what the church is guiding and

teaching them and then they become

frustrated and and they might even write

off like this is all just impossible I

mean you're asking me you're asking me

to

be this and I can't even do this and and

yet I'm supposed to be able to do that

right but I can't I can't get there

because spiritually I'm not been I I

don't live the aesthetic life but also I

haven't been given the tools I haven't

been I haven't been purified of my old

ideas and so we're setting people up and

then what happens is well we end up

justifying it and and I think this

happens almost on without thinking what

I'm describing here is not something

consciously going about it's like

they're just this it's just a natural

reaction if if if look if you've got a

bunch of people at the level of you know

let's say High School baseball or maybe

even like you know little league but

everybody is expecting and talking about

the big big

leagues what are you g to do after a

while you're going to say forget the big

leagues they don't exist it's not

possible that that's for another time

another day that was once upon a time

and so look if you're if

you're at the level of little league or

maybe better you're good right we're

good don't worry about it and that's

where you see a lot of people

actually who they're in the

church but they do not have this hunger

to to keep pursuing Christ and this is

where even as qual Orthodox Christians

you know it's like Christ is really the

moral teacher for them right and the the

church is the club where you

know it's uh it might as well be the

rotary club or the Elks club right and

and here's and here's why this is

important because I've run into

this what about happiness they use the

word Joy but really what they're talking

about is happiness what about happiness

father what about this and this and that

it's like man you're always talking

about struggle you're always talking

about this and that and I'm

like yes because that is the spiritual

life and that look around you and this

this is the thing without the ability to

discern the the lullabi that the world

has given

you you then begin to want to hear that

lullabi in the church right and just

kind of like go to sleep

and if we remember the Lord says on the

one hand I've come to make your joy full

to fulfill your joy right but then what

is he what does he do and what is what

is the reality of the Apostles what what

life did they live live they lived a

life of martyrdom they ended up being

Martyrs that's right they were exiled

the Apostle Paul commemorates all of the

difficulties and struggles that he had

almost died how many times it was

persecuted was this was that and he

promised that you will be persecuted he

promised that you will you'll have to

pick up your cross and yet he said I've

come to fulfill and give your you

fullness of joy so obviously the joy of

the Apostles of the Saints of the of the

Christians is not the joy of the world

no and and elsewhere the Lord says they

will rejoice and you will weep right in

other words they will have the joy of

The Superficial worldly Joy of success

and you will be rejected by the world

and yet he says your joy will be filled

so the the Christians need to double

down and say well what Joy is this that

I'm really seeking and what is the joy

that Christ

maybe I'm not seeking the Christ Christ

given joy and that's exactly it father

and that gets us again full circle where

I do think it really comes back down to

okay who is

Christ really who is Christ because

listen it's Inseparable who is Christ

and what is a Christian they go

absolutely absolutely because if I

present to you look this is this is the

spiritual life right and this is the

spiritual life this is what the fathers

have shown this is the experience of

those who have made it quote unquote

what is their experience okay is their

experience

consistent yes where where where are

these anomalies show me you know St P

you know St you know St Mary Jane who

you know had a very happy life had

everything she wanted you know like like

like she doesn't exist she she doesn't

exist right so you want to now argue

about the the tradition and the witness

of those who have pursued Christ with

everything that they got against your

desire to be quote unquote happy right

now now let me just finish this father

because yeah this is the thing I'm

trying to get at does that mean that

there isn't Joy No in fact I can tell

you the there's Greater Joy the worst

day of my life in the church than my

best life outside the church yes no one

can understand that until you do it it's

a same thing when people love athletes

and they love musicians right and they

love all these great okay well listen

have you put the time in like name the

athlete have you put the time in like

name the musician have you put the time

in like whatever you know artist or

whatever you you see the fruit of

something right but behind all that is

years and years of

sacrifice to learn the scales to learn

how to throw the ball to learn how to

Ure the run to learn how to hone the eye

to learn how to hone The Voice the

spiritual life is not only no different

all of those things are actually given

to us to point to the spiritual

life they're all given for us to learn

this is what it means to have spiritual

life is to sacrifice and to hone for

this for these moments of life that's

where you find Joy but you won't find it

unless you enter into it and do it and

that's why the aesthetical life that's

why repentance is so

key so one of the one of the proofs for

all of us is going forward is going to

be this Joy this inexpressible joy that

Christ gives to the the one who is a

struggler who's picked up his cross who

is becoming free of the passions that's

the joy that we want and that's can't be

taken from us right he says it won't be

taken from us and that'll be a sign that

actually we're becoming truly initiated

into Christ at the mogue has done his

job so to speak right and we're now

living the mystery of Christ within us

because only if we have Christ within us

we're goingon to have that deep joy that

can't be taken from us real Freedom true

Freedom true freedom but it's gonna be

the cross at the same time we talk about

the famous expression from great lent

Haro leapy in Greek joyful sorrow right

one at the same time you have both at

the same time it's a mixed and you can't

have one without the other no if you're

gonna have true Joy yeah you can't you

can't yeah and you can't have it's it's

getting us full circle back to that uh

icon of the pantat or Sinai you can't

have all blessing you know and and no

law you know you can't have all the law

like no blessing it's it's the fullness

it's and and and I guess that's the

thing to in regard to this inoculation

and just letting people know look the

Orthodox Church is is the only place

where Christ is worshiped in his

fullness as he is as he has called man

to worship him not as not as you want

to right he's the master not you he's

submission submission put your put your

ideas aside we have we have and this

will be probably for another interview

but we have a growing segment of people

in the United States and other places

that are calling themselves Orthodox

Christians and yet they're introducing

IDE ideas that are not according to

Christ not according to the holy

tradition we see this increasingly uh

they're driven by agendas and uh

ideologies and you know reformations and

all the rest on the one hand it's

extremely troubling on the other hand if

you know a little bit of church history

it's it's been going on a long time yeah

this is goes back to the at least I mean

you can see major expressions of The

Same Spirit of uh of in and Distortion

in the 1920s for instance in the Living

Church in Russia which was embraced by

other other patriarches I mean this was

not just a Russian problem so there um

there for another another podcast we'll

look forward to having it uh we're gonna

have to start just like we said we're

gonna smash those idols and people have

to see come to see themselves for who

they are and deal and go deeper in self-

knowledge I think that we as Orthodox

Christians also need to collectively

have that session of let's see who we

are what's going on and let's talk about

you know what what we need to double

down on and correct and repent of um and

protect ourselves from uh you know

basically living in the delusion that

we're Orthodox when we're not even when

we're when we're living according to the

world and the worldly ideas that's a big

Temptation going forward I I'm sure

that's a part of the MOG job after

initiation as much as it is before uh

keeping people on the straighten and

narrow in the kingom of God not the

kingdom of man yeah absolutely thank you

very much father for the conversation

helping

our viewers listeners and uh and U

readers um this will be U offered along

with the bonus content of our upcoming

book which I know you've been uh privy

to we're very excited about it we got a

copy here of the hard cover that's going

to be coming out

uh on the reception of the heterodox uh

450 Pages U uh trying to cover

everything we can for the sake of the up

building the church salvation of Souls

and the proclamation of the gospel and

this U so this is an offering to all of

those who've joined us at Anam press we

appreciate you participating and look

forward to your uh your thoughts and and

contribution on that topic in due time

um and uh I know you have a lot to say

about it because you're living as we

said in the trenches you know what you

know why this this book is important

absolutely absolutely it's essential for

right now it's essential I mean thank

you Father pray for us we look forward

to seeing you again soon amen thank you

Father it's my

joy

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for