These AI editors are getting out of hand

Summary

The video discusses the recent controversy surrounding Pier AI, an open-source AI code editor built on top of VS Code. The controversy began when it was revealed that Pier AI is essentially a fork of Continue.dev, with minimal changes aside from rebranding. The presenter shares concerns about the ethics of forking an open-source project, raising funds, and competing with the original. They also highlight the challenges of competing with large entities like Microsoft, which consistently improves VS Code, questioning the long-term viability of such AI-powered editors in the developer space.

Takeaways

• 📢 Pier AI is a new open-source AI code editor built on top of VS Code and another editor called Continue.
• 🔥 The project faced backlash after a tweet revealed it was a fork of Continue with minor modifications, raising questions about originality.
• 🔍 Pier AI is accused of simply rebranding Continue by replacing references to Continue with Pier in the codebase, which led to community criticism.
• 💼 Pier AI's team applied and got accepted into Y Combinator, despite YC already funding Continue, leading to discussions about the ethics of funding forks.
• ⚡ Some developers believe the value proposition of Pier AI is weak, arguing that VS Code and Continue already solve many of the same problems.
• 🛠️ Developers argue it's challenging to build a truly innovative editor, especially on top of VS Code, which already provides powerful extensions and tools.
• 🤔 The community is concerned that Pier AI is relying too much on existing work, particularly in the AI-powered editor space, without providing significant differentiation.
• 🏗️ The discussion extends to the broader editor landscape, where most new editors are built on VS Code, except for Zed, which is starting from scratch.
• 💡 Some developers prefer using external AI tools like GPT-4 or Claude, instead of integrating them directly into editors like VS Code or GitHub Copilot, due to interruptions in workflow.
• 📉 The general sentiment is that Microsoft's ecosystem, including VS Code, GitHub, and Copilot, is too robust for these new AI editors to significantly disrupt in the long term.

Q & A

What is Pier AI and why has it caused controversy?

Pier AI is an AI-based code editor built on top of VS Code and Continue.dev. It caused controversy because it cloned Continue.dev, made minimal changes (mostly renaming), and applied for funding from Y Combinator, which had also funded Continue.dev. Many criticized this as unethical, raising funds based on another project’s work.

What is the main criticism of Pier AI's approach?

The main criticism is that Pier AI cloned Continue.dev, replaced its branding, and presented it as a new product. This was seen as unfair and disrespectful to the original developers, especially since Pier AI raised funding by marketing itself as a distinct product.

Why are people upset about Pier AI getting funding from Y Combinator?

People are upset because Y Combinator funded both Pier AI and Continue.dev, despite Pier AI being a fork of Continue.dev. Critics argue that funding multiple similar projects creates uncertainty and shows a lack of innovation.

What is AGPLv3 and how does it relate to this controversy?

AGPLv3 is a license that requires any changes or improvements made to a software project to be shared if the project is used over a network. In the Pier AI controversy, the discussion around licenses highlighted concerns about transparency and the ethical use of open-source software.

What alternative examples of code editors are mentioned in the script?

The script mentions several alternatives, including Zed, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot. Zed is praised for building an editor from scratch to address performance issues, while Cursor and Copilot are seen as more intrusive in the development workflow.

Why is VS Code considered difficult to disrupt, according to the speaker?

VS Code is considered difficult to disrupt because it has a massive codebase and is backed by Microsoft, which is heavily invested in the developer ecosystem. VS Code’s constant updates and wide integration make it challenging for competitors to outpace its development.

What are some issues with AI-based code editors like Cursor and Copilot?

The speaker criticizes AI-based editors like Cursor and Copilot for being intrusive, interrupting the coding workflow. Although AI can assist with coding tasks, these editors sometimes overstep and complicate the user experience.

What does the speaker mean by ‘fork of a fork’ in this context?

In this context, 'fork of a fork' refers to Pier AI being based on Continue.dev, which itself is a fork of VS Code. This layering of forks creates concerns about originality, as Pier AI is seen as making minimal changes to its predecessors while raising funds.

How does the speaker view Microsoft's position in the developer space?

The speaker believes that Microsoft is strongly positioned in the developer space, owning key tools like GitHub, npm, TypeScript, Azure, and VS Code. They argue that Microsoft will continue to dominate, making it difficult for competitors like Pier AI to succeed in the long term.

What is the speaker's stance on using AI in coding?

The speaker is open to using AI in coding but prefers to use external tools like GPT or Claude instead of integrated plugins. They find that integrated AI tools like Cursor and Copilot interrupt their workflow, whereas external tools provide more control and flexibility.

Outlines

00:00

🖥️ Pier AI: The New AI Code Editor Controversy

The speaker introduces the drama surrounding Pier AI, an open-source AI code editor built on top of VS Code and Continue. The controversy started when Pier AI announced it was accepted into Y Combinator, leading to backlash from the community. Allegations arose that Pier AI simply forked Continue.dev, another AI code editor, and replaced all references to Continue with Pier AI. The speaker expresses skepticism about Pier AI's originality and purpose, and shows how community notes pointed out the similarities between the two projects.

05:01

💻 Forking Controversy and Open-Source Ethics

This section expands on the ethical concerns regarding Pier AI, explaining that the community feels the project raised funds based on someone else's work. The speaker critiques Pier AI for not adding much value beyond forking Continue.dev and VS Code. They argue that the product's unique selling proposition (USP) doesn’t warrant the hype or the funding it has received, especially when Continue and VS Code already exist. The speaker also discusses how AI tools like Cursor and others face similar issues, being built on the massive existing codebase of VS Code.

10:02

🔧 AI Editors and Their Limitations

The speaker reflects on their personal experience using AI editors like Cursor and GitHub Copilot, stating that while these tools can be useful, they often interrupt workflow. They prefer to use external tools like GPT or Claude for specific tasks rather than relying on AI within the code editor itself. Additionally, the speaker questions the value of new AI editors, such as the Void editor, and criticizes their reliance on forking VS Code, which brings along existing performance issues.

Keywords

💡Pier AI

Pier AI is an open-source AI code editor built on top of VS Code. The controversy around Pier AI is central to the video, as it was accused of forking another open-source project called Continue and rebranding it without proper attribution. This issue raises questions about open-source ethics and originality in tech startups.

💡VS Code

VS Code, or Visual Studio Code, is a widely used, open-source code editor developed by Microsoft. Many AI code editors like Pier AI and Continue are built on top of VS Code due to its robust architecture. The video emphasizes how new projects often rely on VS Code's foundation, leading to discussions on whether these projects are innovative or just forks.

💡Continue.dev

Continue.dev is an AI-based code editor that was forked by Pier AI. The script highlights how Pier AI copied Continue's code, changed its name, and raised funding. This act sparked criticism regarding originality and transparency in open-source projects.

💡Y Combinator (YC)

Y Combinator (YC) is a startup accelerator that funds early-stage companies. Both Pier AI and Continue were funded by YC, which led to further scrutiny in the community. The video suggests that YC is funding multiple similar projects without considering the lack of innovation in some cases, especially with projects that are forks of existing software.

💡Forking

Forking refers to creating a copy of an existing open-source project, often to make modifications or improvements. In the case of Pier AI, the video discusses how forking Continue.dev’s code without significant changes led to controversy, as it raised ethical concerns about whether such projects should receive funding.

💡AGPL License

The AGPL (Affero General Public License) v3 is a free software license that requires users who modify and use the software over a network to make their changes public. The video mentions how Pier AI’s use of an AGPL license led to concerns about compliance and transparency when forking Continue.dev.

💡Open Source

Open source refers to software where the source code is made publicly available for anyone to inspect, modify, and distribute. The controversy discussed in the video revolves around whether Pier AI's approach to open source—forking Continue.dev—was ethically sound, as it raised funds on the basis of slightly modified open-source code.

💡GitHub

GitHub is a platform for hosting and collaborating on software projects, often used for open-source development. The video references GitHub when discussing how the Pier AI team cloned Continue.dev’s repository, made minimal changes, and then rebranded the project, sparking debate about transparency in open-source development.

💡Cursor

Cursor is another AI-based code editor mentioned in the video. The speaker discusses trying out Cursor and finding it disruptive, as it often interferes with workflow. This contrasts with how some developers prefer to use external AI tools like GPT instead of integrating them directly into their coding environment.

💡Microsoft

Microsoft is the company behind VS Code, GitHub, and GitHub Copilot. The video argues that Microsoft’s strong presence in the developer ecosystem, especially through VS Code and GitHub, makes it difficult for competitors like Pier AI to stand out, as they are built on Microsoft’s technology and may not offer significant improvements.

Highlights

Discussion about the new AI code editor called Pier AI.

Pier AI is an open-source AI code editor built on top of Visual Studio Code (VS Code) and Continue.

Announcement that Pier AI got accepted into Y Combinator.

Backlash on Twitter regarding Pier AI's announcement and its approach.

Community notes reveal Pier AI as a fork of Continue Dev with mass replacement of references.

GitHub examination shows changes in comments and renaming from Continue to Pier AI.

Comparison of Pier AI and Continue Dev, both being AI-based editors and open-source.

Criticism on the definition of 'open AI' and the nuances of open-source.

Concerns about Pier AI's funding application to YC without significant unique selling points.

Y Combinator's strategy of funding multiple projects in the same area.

Microsoft's developer-centric approach and its influence on the editor market.

The challenge of building a successful editor from scratch compared to forking existing ones.

Discussion on the performance and limitations of editors built on top of VS Code.

Personal experience and opinion on AI plugins within the coding workflow.

The tweet that backfired and the community's reaction to Pier AI's approach.

Ethical concerns regarding Pier AI's use of open-source work and fundraising.

The role of the AGPL license in the context of Pier AI's development.

Opinions on the long-term viability of forking projects for funding and market share.

The importance of strong open-source ethics and respecting original creators' work.

Comparison with other editors like Zed, which is built from scratch.

Final thoughts on the editor space and the role of AI in coding assistance.

Transcripts

let's discuss this trama which is going

on on Twitter and probably on some other

platforms as well which is this new AI

editor called as Pier AI which says it's

open source it's an AI code editor it's

built on top of VSS code and continue

which is another editor which is also

built on top of vs code so I just want

to discuss what has happened in the last

few days with this regards walk you

through a few important tweets and share

my own opinion as well on these editors

in general which probably isn't what

you're thinking so where it started was

I think from this tweet itself so where

they announced that PR AI is company

which they applied in y combinator and

it got accepted it's an open- Source AI

code editor which is like you know

everyone how it says like it's the best

version of everything which is available

so that's the similar idea with them but

this tweet backfired a lot on these

people and I'll tell you like what

happened so if I can show you the

community note uh which was here I think

this is one of the few notes I think

Community note has been removed from

their tweet earlier it was there but I

can see it still because I am a

community notes editor so you can see

like there are a few notes which are

already there which is like it says like

P is a fork of continue. Dev and open

source AI code editor PR a used

continue. devs code and mass replaced

all the references to continue to PR a

okay a a lot of things to grasp so let's

just try to open their GitHub first and

let's just try to go back to okay they

have changed a a little bit of comment

messages here and there also so if you

look at this comment for example where

in this PRM module uh they renamed

continue to PR it's very clear and get

up you can see like all the occurences

occurrences where they have just changed

the name from continue. D to prai so if

you look at these two websites they are

pretty much doing the same things right

so they are also continue is also

creating an AI based editor and PR AI is

also creating the same editor continue

is also open source p is also open

source continue is also built on vs code

this one is also built on vs code but

their definition of AI and open AI is

like open source is basically slightly

different in some nuanced way to be very

honest it doesn't really matter except

un until unless your source code is

anywh open it doesn't really matter

maybe the AIS which they are using as

models are also running on computer

maybe not I don't know what's the what's

the crunch here but the fundamental

thing is that if you are just taking a

project on get Hub get cloning it

replacing all the occurrences like they

have done for example in this specific

commit pushing it applying to YC with a

specific USB that okay we will just run

the AI models on you know users device

for example as a code differentiator

it's a great project but I do agree with

the stance here that this is something

which should not be funded as a project

given that YC also has funded continue

so YC has funded this project YC has

funded PRI YC has funded a few more

projects in the same area the idea is

that YC probably is just funding every

single player or every single major

player which they think would could

become in the next few years and they

are betting that vs code as an editor

would probably not be as popular as it

is right now or Microsoft would not you

know be back with a very huge Plug-In or

you know very huge improvements in gith

up co-pilot which to be honest according

to my opinion seems very wrong because

this is something I also wrote as one of

the tweets so if you go back to one of

the tweets which I just you know wrote a

few weeks back YC also funded the void

editor right again one of the things but

I don't I don't get this what's

happening over here because I for one

know that Microsoft is very very

developer Centric for example you will

see Microsoft owning GitHub npm

typescript as your vs code it has a lot

of shares in open a also all of these

editors which are getting funded they

almost always are building on top of vs

code I have not seen any editor except

Zed which is getting built from scrap

these editors are built on top of vs

code so they bring in all the bad things

of vs code also whether in terms of

performance or in terms of any sort of

limitations which exist for example what

Zed is solving is for performance mainly

so all of those things are there on top

of that they are trying to hack around a

little bit of AI for example and they

expect that this would blow up as an

editor for I don't know for what use

case I don't see it in that way to be

very honest I as a developer am not able

to see it I have not tried out this

editor the one void editor but I have

tried out cursor I couldn't feel it like

my use case was great when it is

combined with just clae or you know GPT

outside of the editor when I need the AI

I can just give it context and I can get

the work done I've tried cursor it

interrupts a lot I've tried GitHub

co-pilot also it interrupts a lot I

don't use any AI plugins within the

workflow itself I use AI but when it is

required I just use an external website

like Claude or GPT or even Cod dam.com

which is also gp4 but this tweet over

here has backfired a lot because what

these guys effectively have done is get

cloning ripoff of an editor there was

some issue with license also so someone

Community noted us that saying we are

misleading people by not mentioning

continue in this thread we are way too

open and transparent of a community for

the slander we have mentioned we are a

fork of both vs code and continue since

day one and can be seen the first line

of GitHub description okay see the

problem here is that it people are not

coming after you if this was launched as

a project which was you know great in

terms of like you are forking vs code

and you're building on top of some of

the functionalities great what you doing

is that you are forking an open source

project even raising funding on that

based on some level of USP and people

just think that that value proposition

doesn't exist why not continue dodev

itself why not vs code itself cursor for

example cursor I think has done a lot

more optimizations on top of vs code

itself I was reading their blog post the

other day I think like uh yeah this one

our problems yeah so these are some of

the problems which cursor is trying to

solve from a fundamental level right if

you look at softwares like these even

the you know continue. Dev I would say

probably these softwares are great but

they are built on top of a very huge

code base that already exists that is vs

code so the community problem I feel

what people have been pointing out so

far is that that hey you just raised a

lot of funds based on somebody else's

work and then you are using those

metrics the contributor count and you

know what we are doing how we are doing

it you're using those metrics and

boosting about your product that is I

think the fundamental problem with what

what has happened over here I think

there was another issue with the agpl

license over here which I remember

seeing so you see when they were

renaming it from continue to PR this was

the only message which they wrote in the

conversation now this might be a light

you know joke or something but it of

course turns out to be a bad thing if

you view it from all point of views so

they just mentioned it's ours now and

just renamed it I think four five months

ago and they just merged it right so

again like they have then given

explanation of why we are transparent

and all but still so Pier richelson

who's also the founder of cal.com has

also written something about this which

I just want to quickly glance over so he

does say that I don't think funding

Forks is a winning strategy I have yet

to see a fork to be more successful than

the initial Steward looking at you bun

so bun is not exactly a NOS for but

still as as of today I don't see how vs

code needs a fork and my point of view

is that all these cute AI extensions are

in fact vs code extensions I use super

Maven a lot big fan so this is something

I also agree with at some point even

though I don't even use vs code

extensions but I have used GitHub

co-pilot in past I just don't use it

because it interrupts a lot but I feel

like all of these softwares can be a

functional see the the bigger problem

with software in general today right now

is not people see that AI would just

reinvent everything it's not going to

happen software engineering is very deep

if you look at a project like vs code

and if you open it you won't imagine how

much work it takes to create something

like a you know a software that can open

a file with 100,000 lines and then

effectively render and syntax highlight

and and do everything if you think that

your USB is just AI powered code editor

and you just start to create that from

scratch you have to still solve a lot of

problems that vs code has already sld

that's why people Fork over it and they

just call it a day and just raise the

funds and so on the problem is that

people are forgetting that it's really

really hard to build really really good

software and even harder to build great

business so that is where the focus

should be according to me when you are

funding somebody or when you are funding

a potential that is the team capable of

solving really hard problems which is

what I'm seeing here as well in this

tweet that he says that vs code doesn't

need a fork funding a fork of a fork is

a Next Level uncertainty so I mean yeah

continue. Dev is a fork of vs code this

new project which is like questionable

is a fork of a fork to make it open

source you need strong open source

ethics you are looking to build a

community starting day one saying it's

ours now is a crazy disrespectful even

if the fork is technically legal it's

highly unethical and I don't think it's

great start to find pmf among developers

I 100% agree with the statement for

somebody most of the developers at some

point would have seen some level of Open

Source work or they realize like how

difficult it is to build software and

even though it's like in done in a

lightweight manner in a jokingly manner

it still feels a bit disrespectful for

the original creators of the software on

the other hand maybe vs code has reached

the infrastructure level where it's just

too big to rebuild similar to chromium

every browser today out there is a

chromium fork and we don't seem to care

this much may be true but I mean the

counter example is that Zed is doing

exactly what vs code is but from a very

core scratch so yeah so agpl helps lot a

lot to migrate all of this mitigate a

lot of this so what what is what exactly

is agplv3 license I've heard about this

license but I just don't know it I know

that's like a very permissive license so

agpl agpl V3 states that you must share

any changes or improvements you make

especially if the people are using a

version over the Internet mid you can do

whatever you want is strict about

sharing while mid license gives you much

more freedom to use and change okay fair

enough so yeah that's it basically for

this whole drama nothing serious I think

has come out of it so far like maybe

like people are attacking YC and all of

that but I don't like how that would

play out in long term what do you think

about this editor space in general I

mean my stance is pretty clear I am

sticking with vs code and I know for a

fact that these editors they can get

great but it's a similar story like how

Ark for example works as a browser I

still don't understand Ark as a browser

in general uh so as you can see I'm

already I'm of course using Chrome and

chromium similar thing exists with vs

code and in general with these browser

Zed I like a lot because they are taking

a bold move they are starting from

scratch what needs to be done and it's

interesting to see that some somebody

has the confidence to pull the soft

these editors they seem like a little

bit of hacking around on top of vs code

to be very honest I I mean there is real

engineering going on here over Ai and

what for example cursor is doing but

what I'm still struggling to understand

why this cannot be a GitHub why this

cannot be a vs code extension right VSS

code extensions are very powerful they

allow you to inject into a lot of the

ecos system of vs code the editor you

know what happens when you're writing

whatever it is and if that is something

thing which is not fulfilling your need

why can't you contribute directly to vs

code of course if you Fork it and if you

create a company you get funding and you

have the potential shot at you know

maybe disrupting vs code space but the

problem is the problem if you think of

it on a long-term basis the problem is

that Microsoft will catch up within the

next 6 months or 1 year or 2 years

because it's it's a giant which is not

sleeping look at vs code repository

right now if you go to vs code and if

you open this GitHub for example the

last commit was 10 minutes ago okay it

was 10 minutes ago you cannot beat these

people at their own game in terms of the

quality of product they are building

similarly Microsoft is investing heavily

in the developer space GitHub GitHub

extensions co-pilot all of this it's

it's a losing battle in long term that's

all I'm saying you might win a small

market share right now but unless you

are taking a radically different

approach and your core proposition is

different like Zed for example we'll

also figure that out maybe in the next

few months or years but unless you're

doing that I think it's a losing

strategy and that is what I think is the

core reason like why people are upset

that you get funding also you know you

raise around after forking it and just

building a little bit of things here and

there but yeah let me know what you

think about this what editor do you use

today yourself any AI tools which you're

using right now to help you assist with

coding that is all for this one I'm

going to see you in the next video

really soon