EVERYTHING You Need to Know About Good Leadership
Summary
TLDREn esta entrevista, Jennifer aborda los desafíos de liderazgo en un mundo cada vez más complejo y disruptivo. Discute cómo las organizaciones aún operan bajo modelos de eficiencia mecánica en lugar de centrarse en el potencial humano. Habla sobre la importancia de aceptar la diversidad de pensamiento y la necesidad de que los líderes crezcan para manejar mejor la complejidad. Jennifer también reflexiona sobre el impacto de la tecnología, como la IA, y la oportunidad de reenfocarse en la humanidad. Finalmente, expresa optimismo sobre el futuro y el potencial humano para superar estos desafíos.
Takeaways
- 😀 El liderazgo no debe ser un proceso de hacer que las personas te sigan ciegamente, sino de valorar las diferentes perspectivas para abordar la complejidad.
- 🌍 La complejidad y el cambio rápido en el mundo requieren una mejor capacidad para manejar situaciones complejas y desacelerar los motores de la disrupción.
- 🌱 Crecer como adultos implica conectarse más con los demás, eliminar filtros y sesgos, y estar abiertos a nuevas formas de ver el mundo.
- 🤖 La automatización y la IA podrían liberarnos para centrarnos más en nuestra humanidad, aunque esta promesa aún no se ha cumplido.
- 🧠 Las trampas mentales protegen al cerebro del costo de la complejidad, pero es necesario aprender a ver más allá de estas defensas para poder enfrentarlas.
- 💡 Cambiar la forma en que uno se presenta en una sala de juntas, por ejemplo, puede cambiar la energía y las dinámicas sin necesidad de memos o preparaciones formales.
- 🔄 Las emociones como la ansiedad y el enojo son contagiosas, pero también lo son la apertura y la curiosidad, lo que puede influir en el ambiente de una organización.
- 🎯 En la complejidad, las diferencias de los demás son tesoros, no problemas, y deben verse como una oportunidad para aprender.
- 🦸♂️ El ego es útil pero no debe dirigir nuestras acciones. Es más efectivo cuando lo usamos como recurso y no como guía principal.
- 🌎 Ninguna cultura ha dominado el equilibrio perfecto, pero cada una tiene piezas valiosas que podemos integrar para crear algo mejor.
Q & A
¿Cuál es el principal enfoque que Jennifer menciona sobre el liderazgo en entornos complejos?
-Jennifer enfatiza que en entornos complejos no se trata de que las personas sigan ciegamente al líder, sino de aprovechar las diferentes perspectivas para manejar la complejidad de manera más efectiva.
¿Por qué compara Jennifer a un líder con una hormiga intentando guiar a un elefante?
-Jennifer utiliza esta comparación para destacar que un solo líder no puede ver ni entender lo suficiente desde su perspectiva individual en un entorno complejo. Se necesitan múltiples perspectivas para obtener una visión más completa.
¿Cómo define Jennifer la relación entre la complejidad y el liderazgo tradicional?
-Jennifer explica que el liderazgo tradicional busca eficiencia y estandarización, inspirado en las máquinas. Sin embargo, en la actualidad, las organizaciones deben enfocarse más en las personas y en cómo aprovechar las diferencias y la complejidad.
¿Qué espera Jennifer que ocurra con la llegada de la inteligencia artificial y la automatización?
-Jennifer espera que la automatización y la IA liberen a los humanos de tareas repetitivas, permitiéndoles centrarse más en su humanidad y en construir relaciones significativas.
¿Qué son las 'trampas mentales' según Jennifer?
-Las 'trampas mentales' son mecanismos psicológicos que protegen al cerebro de la complejidad, haciendo que las personas reaccionen de manera contraria a lo que han planeado, especialmente en situaciones desafiantes.
¿Cómo pueden los líderes cambiar la dinámica de una junta directiva, según Jennifer?
-Jennifer menciona que cuando los líderes se muestran más receptivos y abiertos a los demás, esto genera un cambio en la energía de la sala, haciendo que los demás también se vuelvan más receptivos.
¿Qué papel juegan las emociones en la dinámica de liderazgo según Jennifer?
-Jennifer explica que las emociones, como la ansiedad o el enojo, son contagiosas, pero también lo son la apertura y la curiosidad. Los líderes pueden influir en la energía de una sala según cómo entren en ella.
¿Por qué es importante la diversidad de pensamiento para manejar la complejidad?
-Jennifer destaca que en un entorno complejo, la diversidad de pensamiento es crucial porque ofrece diferentes perspectivas que ayudan a resolver problemas que un solo líder no puede entender por completo.
¿Cómo sugiere Jennifer que los líderes manejen su ego en el trabajo?
-Jennifer sugiere que los líderes deben reconocer y estar en sintonía con su ego, pero no dejar que sea el principal conductor de sus acciones, ya que el ego puede ser demasiado defensivo y estático.
¿Qué opina Jennifer sobre la evolución del liderazgo en diferentes culturas?
-Jennifer cree que ninguna cultura ha 'resuelto' por completo el liderazgo ideal, pero cada una tiene algo que aportar. Sugiere que si se combinan las fortalezas de diferentes culturas, se podría crear un enfoque de liderazgo más completo.
Outlines
👥 Liderazgo y Perspectivas en Complejidad
El liderazgo no consiste en que las personas sigan a una sola persona, sino en aprovechar diferentes perspectivas para enfrentar la complejidad. La conversación comienza con la bienvenida a Jennifer en el evento Innovation Realized, donde se discuten los desafíos disruptivos que enfrentan las empresas. Jennifer plantea que el reto está en aprender a manejar la complejidad mientras se desacelera el motor de la disrupción.
🧠 Trampas Mentales y el Desafío de la Complejidad
Jennifer explica cómo las 'trampas mentales' son mecanismos de defensa del cerebro para protegernos de la complejidad, que históricamente no era algo que necesitáramos manejar. Hoy, con el rápido cambio, las personas caen en errores repetidos debido a que sus cerebros buscan evitar la complejidad. La solución está en cambiar nuestra relación con el entorno, como hizo una líder con su junta directiva, ajustando su enfoque para mejorar la receptividad de los demás.
🤝 Relaciones, Ego y Emociones en el Liderazgo
Las emociones como la ansiedad y la ira son contagiosas, y los líderes pueden influir en sus equipos a través de la apertura y la curiosidad. Jennifer subraya la importancia de la diversidad cognitiva y de pensamiento en los equipos, reconociendo que las diferencias entre las personas deben ser vistas como tesoros. También habla sobre cómo gestionar el ego para que no controle las decisiones, sino que se convierta en una herramienta útil pero no dominante.
🌍 Diferencias Culturales y el Liderazgo Global
Jennifer, habiendo vivido en varios países, reflexiona sobre las diferencias culturales y cómo cada cultura tiene una pieza del rompecabezas para un liderazgo eficaz. Algunas culturas se enfocan en el individuo, mientras que otras priorizan lo colectivo. Ella también distingue entre la complejidad y lo complicado, explicando que la complejidad se basa en reglas simples pero elegantes, mientras que lo complicado requiere procedimientos y conocimientos expertos.
🚀 El Futuro del Liderazgo y la Evolución Humana
La conversación se adentra en cómo los líderes pueden evolucionar para manejar mejor la complejidad. Los líderes pueden moverse de ser altamente independientes a ser interdependientes y relacionales, lo que les permite liderar equipos diversos con mayor facilidad. Jennifer argumenta que el desarrollo adulto y la capacidad de evolución son claves para enfrentar los desafíos del futuro, como la inteligencia artificial, y que debemos acelerar nuestra evolución para adaptarnos a las nuevas realidades.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Liderazgo
💡Complejidad
💡Trampas mentales
💡Ego
💡Perspectivas diferentes
💡Automatización
💡Desarrollo adulto
💡Cultura organizacional
💡Inteligencia emocional
💡Humanidad
Highlights
Leaders must move away from trying to get people to fall in line and instead embrace diverse perspectives as treasures.
The current business model stems from the industrial mindset of efficiency, but we are now shifting towards a focus on human connection.
Complexity requires diverse viewpoints to navigate effectively, making differences valuable rather than liabilities.
Our brains instinctively resist complexity because it's costly and destabilizing, but we must wake up to its importance.
Machines should ideally free us to embrace our humanity and deepen our connections, but this promise is yet to be fully realized.
Changing our mindset can change the way others respond to us in professional settings, as seen when a CEO shifted her approach with her board.
Emotions like anxiety and anger are contagious, but so are openness and curiosity, and they can set the tone in any room.
Leadership in complexity involves moving beyond independent heroism towards interdependence and collaborative growth.
Adult development can lead leaders to become more relational and interdependent, improving their ability to lead change.
Young people, born into a world facing major challenges, are naturally inclined to prioritize meaning over status, providing hope for the future.
Artificial intelligence (AI) brings opportunities but also requires us to evolve our human capacities quickly enough to keep pace with technological advancements.
Ancient wisdom traditions align with modern adult development ideas, suggesting a path from dependence through independence to interdependence.
The future of leadership will rely less on intellect and more on our ability to foster human connections and relationships.
Our ability to change our relationship to the world doesn’t stop in childhood; adults can continue to grow and evolve.
This era offers unprecedented possibilities and tools for humanity, but we must actively choose to evolve and collaborate for a better future.
Transcripts
My job as a
leader is to get
people to fall in line behind me.
You realize that is a fool's errand.
That is like having an ant lead
an elephant.
You just can't see enough
from that perspective.
In complexity,
you need as many different perspectives
as possible to have any hope.
And so once you give that up,
then suddenly other people's differences
become treasures.
[Music Playing]
Jennifer, welcome.
Thanks for having me.
It's lovely to be here.
Excellent!
So,
we're going to go straight
into digging in.
We are here at the
Innovation Realized event,
and there's so much disruption
going on in the world.
Many of the business
environments seem so complex,
and there's so much change and
driving shift.
How do you see all this disruption?
Oh, my goodness!
I believe that we have
created contexts
that are well beyond our current capacity
to handle them.
And so figuring out how do we slow down
some of that
disruption creation engine
we've got going,
and at the same time
how do we become better
at handling complexity —
those seem to me
like two
rather helpful avenues
to pursue at the same time.
But they seem so heavy and so big.
How do you break those down?
Well, I really don't know
very much about the first one.
So, I leave that to other experts.
The second one is kind of my wheelhouse.
How do we grow ourselves
to be better able to handle
complexity is actually
heavy in that it's important,
but it's kind of a
beautiful story of
how do grown-ups
grow and change over time?
How do we become more connected
to one another?
How do we
take in more of the world
and take off
more of our own filters and biases?
It seems that so much of the
the business world is based
on this hero's journey versus
this kindred quest
that we should all embrace.
Why is that? And why is that still going?
I think
the current business model
springs still out of organizations
as factory,
trying to standardize and
drive efficiency,
and be the best machines
we could possibly be.
It
all comes with this fascination
for how machines go.
And
the thing that you're talking about
is a fascination for how humans go.
And I believe we're just waking up to,
that is an interesting question.
Do you think things like automation
and AI [artificial intelligence]
that are taking the automation
part of how humans
were actually operating back,
will free us up
to be more celebratory of each other?
It's certainly my dream.
When I look at the possibility,
we've thought for decades that machines
would liberate us
to be better with each other.
So far,
that promise has not really arrived.
But my big hope is
as machines get better at doing
all of these things
that we didn't imagine machines would do,
the thing that's left — the corner
that we still have — is
what are humans great at?
And if we could lean into our humanity,
I feel like
there are spectacular possibilities for us.
It sounds so rich.
And just
even you talking about
it makes me warm to the
thought “I can get me back.”
Yeah, it's a beautiful idea.
And we can get us back too
because it's not a hero's journey.
We are not competing
against each other
for who's the last one
standing on the planet.
We have to go together.
And
I think the urgency might
actually deliver us
new ways of thinking and working.
Yeah, I feel the same.
You talk about mind traps
and the psychological stickiness.
Could you unpack that
a little bit for me?
So for basically
my whole career, I’ve
been teaching leaders
to handle complexity,
and I work with really brilliant,
motivated and
fabulous humans around the globe.
And I was finding that
they were kind of falling
into the same mistakes again and again.
Like, we would have a conversation, and
they would totally know what to do.
And then we would walk together
into a board meeting,
and they would not only not do
the thing that they said
they were going to do,
they would do 100% the opposite
of the thing that they said
they were going to do.
And I got really interested like,
why is that?
And as I studied
it, I found that there's
a kind of
psychobiological
reason for these mind traps:
our brain
is trying to protect us from complexity.
Because complexity is very costly.
It's very destabilizing.
And
for most of human history.
we didn't really need to worry about it
that much
because the berry that was poisonous
yesterday would be poisonous tomorrow.
And the enemy
that was the enemy yesterday
would be the enemy tomorrow.
Things weren't changing that fast.
Things change fast now,
and we have to actually wake up to that.
And so I call these mind traps
because it's like your
brain is saying,
“sweetie, just don't look there,”
and we have to look.
How much is it —
the self-belief?
Because when you're working
with a leader, it's great
that they can change the perspective
of how they should show
up and be themselves.
But to your point,
when they walk into that board meeting,
those people haven't changed.
They haven't had the
honor of working with you. So
how do they prep
that room so that's more acceptable
that they're going to come into it
with a different dimension of thought?
What's really interesting is that
each of us has the power to change
the context
we're in by the way
we change ourselves.
So I was working with one leader
who is wrestling with her board, and she
was the chief executive.
And she found herself
in a kind of a scrabble
with particularly one board member,
but also kind of the whole board.
And
she would enter the board
kind of primed to
duke it out,
to defend her position to win.
And as we worked on that together,
they would respond.
They were like, “okay sweetheart,
let's have it out.”
So as she started to
work on
not having that relationship to them,
she would go in different
and try and understand
their perspectives, and
try and understand
that between them
they had a lot
to offer to the organization.
It was
not for profit,
but between them,
they were really trying
to make the world a better place.
And when she could hold that in her,
they changed.
They didn't need a notification.
They didn't need a memo.
They didn't need coaching.
They just needed her not to be protecting
her patch.
And then they didn't
have to protect their patch.
So, she didn't have to prepare
that outside the boardroom.
Just a natural energy transition
made them more receptive.
That's exactly right.
When she was receptive to them,
they suddenly found themselves
being receptive to her.
It's often when
you have to look in the mirror,
you realize that you're the one
that's the agitator.
That's exactly right.
And we can change the way we show up.
One of the things
neuroscience teaches us is that
our emotions are really
contagious.
And our anxiety and
our anger —
these things are very contagious.
If I walk into a room angry
and you don't even know me,
you might not even notice that I'm angry.
But you will find yourself …
to feel it.
And if I walk into the room
really open and curious,
you might not know me,
but you might find yourself
leaning into those emotions.
I love that.
And you are a big advocate
with diversity as well.
The diversity of thought, not just
of your experiences in life
but how you're presenting yourself.
How are you helping leaders
acknowledge and respect
that diversity of thought,
the cognitive element of acceptance?
Well, once you understand complexity,
you move from this idea —
if only I were big enough and smart enough,
I could handle things,
and my job as a leader
is to get people to fall in line
behind me.
You realize that is a fool's errand.
That is like having an ant lead
an elephant.
You just can't see enough
from that perspective.
In complexity,
you need as many different perspectives
as possible to have any hope.
And so once you give that up,
then suddenly
other people's differences
become treasures.
You think, oh,
my job is to get all these people
to follow me
and to believe what I believe,
perspectives or liabilities.
But if you think, oh,
I wonder what I could learn from her
and him, and her and them;
well, suddenly
that's a different thing.
That means you need them.
They need you,
you need them.
It's a
whole different set of relationships.
And how do you control the ego
that may bubble up with that?
Suddenly I've been given some leash,
and this is my show.
And how do you ensure that is
controlled
in a way that people go:
“Okay, she's giving me the freedom.
He's giving me the freedom.
Now I'm
going to respect
the situation differently.”
I spend a lot of time helping people
just kind of get
in a relationship with their own egos
and decide
how much do I want
this thing at the wheel,
and how much is it
a helpful kind of censor for me?
But I don't want it
driving the car.
I think
most of
us don't really want our egos
to be driving the car.
They're useful.
They warn us about danger,
and they help keep us
whole and safe.
And at the same time, they're too static.
They're too defensive.
They're too protective.
And
we want that to be
one part of our resources,
but not like the main resource.
You live in France now,
but you're American.
When I first came to America,
I found the style
very different than England.
Do you think cultures, certain cultures,
have got this right, or certain ways
of operating have realized
that it was unproductive?
Or do certain cultures
kind of dismiss it and actually thrive by
the more bullish approaches?
I haven't wandered into a culture
that I think, oh, they nailed it.
I’ve lived
for a long time in New Zealand,
and I lived in England and now in France.
So,
it's sort of like
each culture has a puzzle piece
that if we could
put them on the table together,
we could create something fantastic.
And these are also indigenous cultures —
our traditions and cultures —
we can hold them together
and learn from them.
Americans do
the kind of individual story
super-duper well.
That's an important thing.
We don't want to get rid of it.
It's important.
But we don't want that to be everything.
Some countries or cultures
do the collective thing
super, super well. That's important.
How do we put those together?
You also warn of the danger
of oversimplifying
some of these complex things,
and some of them,
you do need to address it. You do need to
sit it down and say
let's dig a little bit deeper.
How do you prevent that
because people want things to be simple?
Well, the funny thing
is complexity actually is quite simple.
I make the distinction in my work between
what's complicated
and what's complex. And complicated
things
have lots of processes
and procedures and
have a lot of expert requirements
and all those kinds of things —
those are not simple.
But complexity tends to be run
by a few simple rules.
It's very elegant.
If you can touch into that and go with
the elegance of it and trust
that,
there's a lot of fun,
a lot of liberation in complexity.
Who's the best? Leaders by
psychological traits are often a bit more
the spear,
the tip of attack,
the triangle model.
But the people that we're needing
are a little bit
more sympathetic in the circle shape
but more rounded,
actually do care about people
versus
the pressures often as a leader
is just bottom line.
Everybody's an element in this.
How do you ensure an organization
that's coming
from the different diversity
of skills and styles can embrace this,
and all agree to it,
when some of it may be a bit foreign
to certain
styles of leadership people.
Here's where I think
adult development ideas.
How do we grow better
able to handle complexity?
So, a leader who has been kind of
the master of his craft and
that sort of pointy and achiever type,
that leader can become, over time,
somebody who's much more
relational,
interdynamic, interdependent, instead of
the strong independent type.
That's a path we can walk.
And the leaders
who walk that path
actually lead change better.
They
have diverse teams more effortlessly,
and they find their own
lives are kind of more pleasant,
more meaningful, more easeful
than when they're trying to
double down and nail it themselves.
So, they often say that
a leopard can't change its spots.
And we sometimes
see that in relationships.
We try and change each other.
Is this working
because you're actually allowing leaders
to go back
to who they naturally are versus
cornered in certain
styles, or how do you see it,
and how long does it take
to help a leader
change their habits of process
so they can be actually more productive?
I believe we can change our spots.
I believe that the way
we think about
and relate to the world
is actually quite malleable.
Yeah, we see it in little kids.
We watch little kids
change their relationship to the world.
And then we have a kind of fallacy
in our minds that we reach some age,
and that thing shuts down
and something else happens.
And yet we all know people who have
sense of wisdom or gravitas,
something that
they've clearly grown into over time.
And
so the question is,
how do we amplify and support
that kind of growth?
Basically, all ancient
traditions
have this idea of this growth
toward wisdom.
And generally the growth
looks like from dependence
through
independence to
interdependence in some way.
And the science of adult development
kind of lays out,
how do we walk that path,
and how can organizations help
people walk that path.
And we know a lot about it.
It's just
how do we begin to care enough
to actually put it in place?
Do you think leaders are born or made?
I believe leadership grows. Beautiful!
And how do you find new leadership
like we have this whole move
now where AI is coming in,
there’s concerns and there’s threat.
But we also have this new wave.
And I'll come back to AI in a bit.
But we have
this new wave of young people
that have different
bars on what's important.
How do you find out versus us,
I'm the old guard, as a leader,
but I'm actually now starting
to work with my eldest daughter.
She's 25,
studied
psychology, and different ways.
How do you feel about this
new wave of younger people and
the opportunity it brings?
I'm so excited about it.
And I'm so excited
because these people are
natives to a world that's in trouble.
They were born in a world
that's in trouble.
So were we,
but
our eyes were closed for a lot longer.
Their eyes
have always been open.
And
I think they're really on
to something extraordinary about
how do we work together,
how do we prioritize what matters?
How do we give up the sort of
substitution
of stuff and status
for meaning?
How do we
just not do that
and have meaning instead
and not do
the very costly, interpersonally costly,
environmentally costly, substitution
that our generation has been drawn to?
And
their understanding of technology
is going to be totally different.
They're born
with an iPhone in their hands.
That's right. And how do you think this
works hand in hand with the threats
and the challenges
and the opportunities of AI?
Well, I certainly hope that we are kind
of evolving our capacities
at a quick enough pace
to also be evolving right
alongside our challenges.
This is the thing,
Evolution itself has
helped us create societies,
helped us
have these very fine-tuned nervous systems
to be able to pick up on
things, helped us have language and culture.
Our evolution is now way too slow.
Eventually,
if we let it run another million years,
we would have these like
very sophisticated
nervous systems
that would be able to handle
all the complexity of today.
But we're not going to be here
in a million years
unless we amplify this evolutionary path
for ourselves. But humans,
we can do that.
That's we.
We are able to take the path
that evolution has laid for us,
and then
create our own evolutionary path
that we power, and
we have to do that.
We actually don't have a choice
about that in this moment.
We have to learn to work together better.
We have to be able to take better,
bigger, more inclusive perspectives.
We have to.
And you've just finished
the second edition of your book.
Having that time to think about it
and reflect,
what are you excited about
and what are you scared of?
Yeah, it was really interesting
going back. So, this is my first book.
It's called “Changing on the Job.”
It's the first book I ever wrote,
and it's about this sort of human
evolutionary path.
And
I was a little bit dismayed to see that
15 years ago,
I was
writing about
all of the things that face us now,
like we knew.
We knew that it was
right about the climate crisis
and about polarization
and about all these sorts of things.
So we knew, and
it's really exciting to me
that organizations are starting
to get
much more invested in these questions,
much more interested in
not just teaching leaders to
find their own true north and follow it,
but actually helping leaders transform
in order
to create human cultures in organizations
that bring out
not just the smarts of people,
but the fullness of our humanity.
Computers can do smarts.
And smarts are still important, but
I think they are not ever again
going to be the most important thing.
That connection to our humanity
as we started out this conversation,
it just seems like
it could be such a great opportunity.
It's a choice.
That's exactly right.
It's everything we have.
So, what are you looking forward to?
I think this is the best
time to be alive
that has ever been.
It's scary.
We are standing at a precipice.
But we have so much capacity,
and we have so much capability as humans.
We have so many tools.
We know so much.
And we have
just
unprecedented possibilities.
And so I love being alive right now.
And I
am deeply hopeful
that we're going to be able
to work it out.
Well, thank you for your work
because you're helping
so many people
reimagine themselves and feel that
confidence and belief of where
the future's going.
I'm certainly
hoping to and
that's what I get up every day
to try and do.
Well, you are certainly doing it.
And I love your work,
and it's an honor meeting you.
Thank you.
And enjoy the rest of the conference.
Thank you, I will. I'm excited.
Jennifer, thank you so much.
And look forward to keeping in touch.
Fantastic.
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