Does Your Creative Convert? Measuring the ROI of Design

Summary

In this panel discussion, industry experts Evan Lee and Brie Bush Lively delve into the intricacies of measuring creative efforts in marketing. They emphasize the importance of understanding audience engagement metrics, such as thumbnail retention and conversion rates, to optimize creative strategy. The conversation highlights the significance of storytelling in creative advertising and the role of design in sales experiences, advocating for a data-driven approach that aligns with business objectives. Evan introduces the concept of a 'creative strategy flywheel,' while Brie discusses the impact of personalization in marketing. Together, they provide insights on fostering a culture of experimentation and continuous improvement within creative teams.

Takeaways

• 🎯 Measuring creative efforts involves focusing on engagement metrics such as thumbnail retention, click-through rates, and conversion rates.
• 📈 The importance of creative strategy is to optimize and make effective ads that resonate with the target audience and drive desired actions.
• 🛠️ Creative teams should be held accountable for performance metrics, aligning their work with sales objectives and growth targets.
• 🔍 Conducting research and understanding the buyer's journey is crucial for creating impactful creative content that supports potential customers.
• 💡 Great design and storytelling can significantly enhance the sales experience, contributing to customer loyalty and business success.
• 🔄 A/B testing should evolve beyond basic elements and consider how variations in creative impact the entire funnel, from clicks to conversions.
• 🌟 Creative integrity can be maintained by adhering to brand guidelines and style guides, ensuring consistency across all collateral.
• 📊 Prioritizing creative can significantly impact campaign performance, with examples like split screening showing its effectiveness in capturing audience attention.
• 🤝 Collaboration between marketing, creative, and sales teams is essential for driving successful campaigns and achieving business goals.
• 🚀 Embracing AI and automation tools can facilitate scalability and enhance creative workflows without sacrificing quality or effectiveness.

Q & A

How do engagement metrics help in diagnosing and improving creative efforts?

Engagement metrics such as thumbnail retention, thumb stop ratios, hook rates, click-through rates, and conversion rates provide insights into how well the creative content is resonating with the audience. By understanding these metrics, teams can diagnose which aspects of the creative are effective and which need improvement, ultimately leading to the production of better creative content.

What is the significance of the Challenger sales methodology in relation to creative advertising?

The Challenger sales methodology emphasizes the importance of offering unique and valuable perspectives to customers, which can be applied to creative advertising. By aligning creative content with the principles of Challenger, such as addressing unrecognized problems and providing a compelling sales pitch, the advertising can enhance the sales experience and establish customer loyalty.

How do buyer's journey and sales pitch decks relate to creative design?

Creative design plays a critical role in storytelling for sales pitch decks. It helps to visually communicate the commercial teaching choreography of the Challenger approach, creating a pit of despair through dark backgrounds and negative stats, and then introducing a new path forward with light backgrounds and positive imagery. This visual storytelling enhances the verbal narrative and contributes to the effectiveness of the sales pitch.

Why is creative considered the new targeting in post iOS 14 world?

In the post iOS 14 world, ad platforms have limited access to user-level data, making creative the primary way to communicate with the target audience. The creative elements, such as images and copy, provide the algorithm with information about the intended audience, which is crucial for driving sales and ensuring the ad is delivered to the right person.

How can creative testing evolve beyond basic A/B testing?

Creative testing can evolve by going beyond basic A/B testing by focusing on how different creative elements contribute to the entire funnel, from clicks to conversions to qualified opportunities and pipeline generation. It involves measuring the effectiveness of creative elements like button colors or images in driving business outcomes, not just engagement metrics.

What is the role of data in balancing data-driven strategies with creative storytelling?

Data plays a crucial role in striking a balance between data-driven strategies and creative storytelling by providing insights into customer behavior, preferences, and responses to different creative elements. This information can be used to inform and refine creative decisions, ensuring that the storytelling remains relevant, engaging, and aligned with business objectives.

How can businesses maintain creative integrity across different collateral pieces?

Businesses can maintain creative integrity by establishing and adhering to clear brand guidelines and style guides. These documents provide a consistent framework for creative teams to follow, ensuring that all collateral pieces, from ads to social media posts to sales decks, reflect the brand's identity and messaging consistently.

What are some examples of metrics that can be used to hold a creative team accountable?

Metrics such as thumb stop ratio, click-through rates, conversion rates, and time to conversion can be used to hold a creative team accountable. These metrics focus on engagement and performance, allowing teams to see how effectively their creative efforts are resonating with the audience and driving desired actions.

How can creative teams foster a culture of experimentation and continuous improvement?

Creative teams can foster a culture of experimentation and continuous improvement by implementing frameworks like the creative strategy flywheel, which encourages research, ideation, and iteration based on data and feedback. Additionally, teams can adopt agile methodologies like creative sprints, which provide regular opportunities for experimentation and refinement of creative work.

What are some key skills or traits that you look for when assembling a creative team?

When assembling a creative team, it's important to look for individuals who can think critically and creatively, understand and leverage data, and are willing to take initiative and challenge the status quo. Other desirable traits include strong communication skills, adaptability, and a collaborative mindset.

What role does leadership play in fostering a culture of scalability and team building within creative and performance teams?

Leadership plays a crucial role in fostering a culture of scalability and team building by setting an example, encouraging experimentation, and creating an environment where team members feel safe and empowered to contribute ideas. Leaders should also promote cross-functional collaboration, prioritize learning and knowledge sharing, and provide the necessary resources and support for teams to grow and succeed.

Outlines

00:00

🎤 Introduction and Panel Discussion on Creative Efforts

The video begins with a welcoming segment, setting the stage for a panel discussion on measuring creative efforts. The host, Kirsten van Ryan, introduces herself and her role at Superside, a video strategy company. She is joined by two guests, Evan Lee from Motion, a creative analytics company, and Brie Bush Lively from Challenger, a training and development company. Evan and Brie are recognized for their expertise in creative strategy and marketing, respectively. The discussion aims to explore how to effectively measure the ROI of creative work, with Evan leading off by emphasizing the importance of understanding engagement metrics like thumbnail retention, click-through rates, and conversion rates.

05:03

📈 The Role of Sales Methodology in Creative Strategy

Brie Bush Lively delves into the concept of sales methodology and its impact on creative strategy. She explains that while a sales process involves a sequence of steps to close a deal, a sales methodology provides a framework of practices and principles for sellers. Brie highlights the importance of the sales experience in differentiating a company and establishing customer loyalty. She discusses the buyer's journey, emphasizing the non-linear and chaotic nature of the process, and the need for creative design and content to support buyers during their due diligence. Brie also talks about the role of design in sales pitch decks, using the Challenger approach as an example to illustrate how design can enhance storytelling in sales pitches.

10:05

🎨 Balancing Data-Driven Strategies and Creative Storytelling

The panelists discuss the challenge of balancing data-driven strategies with the need for creative storytelling in advertising. Evan stresses the importance of creative in the post-iOS 14 world, where creative is the new targeting. He emphasizes that creative efforts should align with the algorithm of ad platforms to reach the right audience. Brie adds to the discussion by advocating for holding the creative team accountable to numbers, ensuring that design and marketing objectives are deeply integrated. The conversation highlights the need for creative testing to evolve beyond basic A/B testing to include the impact on sales and growth targets.

15:07

🔄 The Creative Strategy Flywheel

Evan introduces the concept of the 'Creative Strategy Flywheel,' a process for consistently producing effective creative work. The process begins with research to build an ideal persona of the buyer, followed by ideation to determine the appropriate look, feel, and hooks for the identified audience. Evan emphasizes the importance of controlling what can be controlled in the creative process and using the flywheel to guide the team's efforts. Brie adds her insights on maintaining creative integrity across different collateral, stressing the importance of brand guidelines and style guides to ensure consistency.

20:07

💡 Leveraging Customer Insights for Creative Development

The discussion shifts to how customer insights and data-driven research can inform the development of creative concepts and messaging. Brie talks about the role of creative and design in sales messaging, describing designers as architects of a great sales pitch. She believes that data inspires creativity and is critical for executing effective campaigns. Evan shares a practical example from a D2C brand, Modern Bow, and how their use of split screening in their ads has been impactful. The conversation underscores the importance of understanding customer preferences and using that data to craft personalized and engaging creative content.

25:09

📊 Metrics for Holding Creative Teams Accountable

The panelists discuss appropriate metrics to hold creative teams accountable. Evan focuses on engagement metrics such as thumb stop ratio and click-through rates, emphasizing the importance of tracking these metrics to gauge the effectiveness of creative content. Brie adds that while it's challenging to attribute sales directly to creative efforts, focusing on top-of-funnel metrics can help inspire and guide the creative team. The discussion also touches on the importance of cross-functional collaboration and knowledge sharing within the team to drive creativity and performance.

30:09

🚀 Encouraging Experimentation and Continuous Improvement

Evan and Brie share their insights on fostering a culture of experimentation and continuous improvement within creative teams. Evan talks about having a framework that allows team members to understand when data matters most and when ideas take precedence. He introduces the concept of 'creative sprints' to structure the creative process and encourage iterative learning. Brie emphasizes the need for leadership to set an example and create an environment that encourages experimentation. The conversation highlights the importance of having the right processes in place to support a culture of innovation and growth.

35:10

🌟 Leadership's Role in Team Building and Scalability

The panelists discuss the critical role of leadership in building and scaling creative teams. Brie talks about the need for leadership to encourage collaboration and knowledge sharing, and to create a culture that supports these practices. Evan adds that leadership should empower team members to take initiative and challenge the status quo. He also suggests rotating ownership of meetings to foster a sense of collective responsibility and creativity. The discussion underscores the importance of leadership in driving creative excellence and team performance.

40:11

🔍 Future-Focused Strategies for Creative and Performance Marketing

In the final segment, the panelists share their thoughts on future-focused strategies for creative and performance marketing. Brie discusses the shift towards account-based marketing and the potential for personalization at scale. She talks about using ABM software to target specific accounts with tailored content. Evan encourages both creatives and data-driven marketers to learn from each other and to start with small steps to bridge the gap between creativity and data analysis. The conversation ends with a call to action for the audience to implement these strategies and approaches in their teams.

Keywords

💡Creative Strategy

Creative Strategy refers to the planned approach to storytelling and visual communication in marketing and advertising. In the context of the video, it's about understanding the target audience and crafting messages that resonate with them, ultimately leading to effective ads and content. Evan Lee, one of the speakers, emphasizes the importance of creative strategy in optimizing ads and making them more effective.

💡Engagement Metrics

Engagement Metrics are quantitative measures used to assess the level of consumer interaction with a piece of content. In the video, these metrics include thumbnail retention, thumb stop ratios, hook rates, click-through rates, and conversion rates. These metrics help diagnose the effectiveness of creative content and inform decisions on how to produce better creative assets.

💡Sales Methodology

Sales Methodology refers to a structured approach or framework that guides sellers through the sales process. The Challenger sale, as mentioned in the video, is a sales methodology that focuses on providing unique and valuable perspectives to the market or industry, aiming to enhance the sales experience and establish customer loyalty.

💡Performance Marketing

Performance Marketing is a results-driven approach to marketing where advertisers pay only for measurable results. This can include clicks, views, conversions, or sales. In the video, Evan Lee discusses the importance of creative in capturing audience attention and generating meaningful engagements, which are crucial for success in performance marketing.

💡Account-Based Marketing (ABM)

Account-Based Marketing (ABM) is a strategic marketing approach that focuses on specific target accounts rather than a broad market or segment. It involves personalizing marketing messages and content to each account's unique needs and interests.

💡Persona Development

Persona Development is the process of creating detailed profiles of a product or service's ideal customers. Personas include demographic, psychographic, and behavioral information that helps marketers and designers understand and target their audience more effectively.

💡Creative Testing

Creative Testing involves experimenting with different versions of marketing materials to determine which performs best. This can include A/B testing or multivariate testing, where variations in design, messaging, or calls to action are tested to see which yields higher engagement, conversion rates, or other desired outcomes.

💡Sales Experience

Sales Experience refers to the overall interaction and engagement a customer has with a sales team or sales process. It encompasses the strategies, communication, and value provided throughout the sales journey, aiming to create a positive and memorable experience that fosters customer loyalty and satisfaction.

💡Commercial Insight

Commercial Insight refers to the understanding of a business problem that a customer may be facing, often including aspects of the problem that the customer may not be fully aware of. It's about providing valuable perspectives and solutions that address these issues effectively.

💡Personalization at Scale

Personalization at Scale is the ability to tailor marketing messages and content to individual consumer preferences while maintaining efficiency and reach across a large audience. It leverages data and technology to create customized experiences that resonate with each customer.

Highlights

The importance of measuring creative efforts in marketing and advertising.

Engagement metrics for videos include thumbnail retention, thumb stop ratios, hook rates, click-through rates, and conversion rates.

The role of creative strategy in optimizing and making effective ads.

The impact of sales experience on establishing customer loyalty.

Using design and content to support buyers during their due diligence process and create exceptional sales experiences.

The significance of the buyer's journey and how design can influence it.

Aligning creative collateral and pitch decks with the Challenger sales methodology.

The critical role of design in storytelling within sales pitches.

How creative plays a role in capturing audience attention and generating meaningful engagements in performance marketing.

The importance of creative testing and evolving beyond basic A/B testing to align with sales objectives and growth targets.

Striking a balance between data-driven strategies and the importance of creative storytelling.

The creative strategy flywheel for producing the best creative consistently.

Maintaining creative integrity across different pieces of collateral like ads, social media posts, and pitch decks.

Leveraging customer insights and data-driven research to inform the development of creative concepts and messaging.

Examples of metrics appropriate to hold a creative team accountable to, such as thumb stop ratio and click-through rates.

Fostering a culture of experimentation and continuous improvement within creative and performance teams.

The role of leadership in encouraging collaboration, knowledge sharing, and cross-functional relationships within creative teams.

Strategies for encouraging clients and stakeholders to share metrics and results to improve the development of creative content.

Key skills and qualities to look for when assembling creative teams that drive both creativity and performance.

The impact of emerging trends, consumer behavior changes, and technologies like AI on the importance of creative and performance marketing.

Transcripts

[Music]

hey everyone welcome back from your

deserved break

um I hope you had some time to scratch

grab some snacks and tea some coffee

we're gonna dive straight in with a

panel discussion on the topic I know

that's always top of mine we have two

amazing speakers who will tell us how to

measure their creative efforts uh we

want to hear your questions as well so

please don't hesitate to send them to us

before we get started I'm Kirsten van

Ryan I'm the head of video strategy at

superside I oversee a team of talented

strategists that work with our customers

to create cohesive and effective

approaches to singular video projects or

their overall video strategies for their

brands I'm joined by Evan Lee

um and Brie Bush Lively introduce them

formally uh evenly is the head of

creative strategy at motion currently

motion is a creative analytics company

that combines visual contains with

performance Matrix to help growth teams

improve their creative strategy Evan has

been in the industry working with

companies like shoelace and Manulife he

is passionate about creative advertising

and understanding the benefits of

creative strategy and the process around

it in order to optimize and make

effective ads this conversations right

off Evans alley and I'm really excited

to welcome him welcome Evan thank you

thank you excited to be here everybody

and our second speaker is Brie Bush free

is the VP of marketing at Challenger um

a training and development company

transforming the sales experience

through the well-recognized Challenger

sales methodology if you haven't read

their approach it's a must read

uh free enjoys writing so her creative

um on the copy side is always she's

always had a deep appreciation for great

design and that mix of her love of copy

really um comes together in the creative

work I'm excited to welcome you to the

session too you're a great clip for the

topic we're very spoiled to have you

both

um before we dive into the session I'm

actually going to hand over the floor to

Evan to give us some thoughts on how to

measure our Roi on creative

awesome thank you Kristen really

appreciate the intro everybody I'm so

excited to be here today thanks for

taking time out of your days uh when

we're talking about measuring creative

there's so many ways to take it take

this in directions and honestly we're

gonna we're gonna unpack them some more

but the high level when I can start to

break down like measuring creative I'm

uh I'm an ad guy at the end of the day

so I come from like running these ads

doing everything I do there but the

other counterpart of of why it's so

important is creative team members so

creative team members are ultimately

producing the visual assets that are

going to live in the specific ads that

ad people might run at the end of the

day and once those are in platform I

like to think of it as engagement

metrics and then bottom of funnel

metrics so I'll get into a lot more

detail later probably some of these

questions that come up but engagement

metrics if we're talking videos include

things like your thumbnail retention

your thumb stop ratios your hook rates

your click-through rates your conversion

rates and once you can understand

metrics like those it becomes easy to

diagnose and then figure out a solution

for how to produce the best creative so

that's a high level

um of what we'll get into today but

that's my end thanks Kristen

awesome Bree do you have any thoughts on

this topic

I do lots of thoughts on this topic and

thank you for the lovely intro

um Evan you just listed off a lot of

great ad performance metrics

um you know I've got a little bit of a

Spiel to help you kind of understand

where I'm coming from into this

conversation so I do want to level set a

little bit at the start

um as Kirsten mentioned I work for a

company called Challenger if you've ever

heard of or read the book The Challenger

sale that's us Challenger is a sales

methodology and since I'm in a room full

of marketers and creatives figuratively

I'll give you a quick definition of a

sales methodology where a sales process

is more the sequence of like steps or

stages or tasks that a seller would

follow to close a deal a sales

methodology is more of a framework of

practices and principles that outline

how sellers should approach the sales

process so think of it as the mindset

and the skills a seller brings to every

conversation with a prospect or buyer

when the Challenger research first came

out the findings were pretty

groundbreaking the research showed that

things like your brand reputation and

your product and your price those are

table Stakes you have to have a great

brand and a great product or else No

One's Gonna buy what you're selling but

what truly differentiates a company and

establishes customer loyalty is the

sales experience do you offer unique and

valuable perspectives on the market or

industry are you helping your buyer

navigate Alternatives and avoid

potential risks is it easy for your

buyer to buy from you the punch line on

that research was it's not what you sell

it's how you sell

so what does this have to do with design

I have two points for you the first is

around the buyer's journey and this is

most applicable to B2B this is the

visual we affectionately refer to as the

spaghetti slide we know the buying

process is not linear it's chaotic with

a thousand different touch points before

a buyer actually makes a purchase and we

also know that buyers are 57 of the way

down the path to making a decision

before they even contact sales

your potential customers are out there

researching learning trying to form an

opinion before they even start a

conversation with you and therein lies

the first creative unlock how can you

use great design and content of course

to support buyers during their due

diligence process and create that

exceptional sales experience from the

very first touch point with your brand

you should be looking for ways to answer

the questions that you know your buyers

will have using a variety of different

formats channels Etc before they talk to

sales to make sure your product stays at

the top of their consideration set So

speaking specifically to design some

examples of that might be an explainer

video for competitive Alternatives which

you also repurpose into a series of

visual social media posts or ads a

checklist in the form of an infographic

you you get the gist and to take it even

further since we are here to talk about

performance measurement and Roi you can

evaluate whether the consumption of this

call it buyer FAQ content contributes to

a shorter sales cycle look at buyer

Journey velocity or funnel velocity

against the amount and type of content

consumed are you seeing shorter time to

conversion by tracking the number of

days it takes from someone to go from

visitor to lead lead to opportunity and

so on when the person interacts with

this visual FAQ content because in an

Ideal World if the buyer is getting all

their questions answered via marketing

campaigns and content prior to talking

to sales they'll come in more confident

in their decision to buy from you and

hopefully it'll be an easier and quicker

sale

second point on connecting great design

with the sales experience I want to talk

about the sales pitch deck now the

Cornerstone of the Challenger approach

is the commercial teaching choreography

it's not as important what framework you

use your sales team is using in their

pitch conversations I'm just using ours

as an example but what this will

illustrate is the critical role that

design plays in the storytelling of a

sales pitch so let me really quickly

explain what's going on here the

Challenger way to pitching your product

follows these six steps you start with

the warmer where you show the customer

you understand their business and

industry and establish credibility then

you move into the reframe where you

expose something the customer is missing

about their business it's an

unrecognized problem an incorrect

understanding of the cause of the

problem or maybe even an underestimation

of the size of the problem and then we

go into these two middle pieces of

rational drowning and emotional impact

and notice where they sit on the

emotional Spectrum on the left there we

call this the pit of despair in rational

drowning Challengers are throwing a

bunch of data points at the prospect to

quantify the full cost of allowing the

problem to persist or rationalize why

the status quo of their business problem

is intolerable and once the worry starts

to build we hit him with the emotional

Story how the problem looks and feels

and what will happen to their business

if they don't change when we coach our

clients through developing sales

collateral and Pitch decks and marketing

campaigns to align with this approach

design plays a really big part in

creating that pit of despair we use dark

backgrounds darker imagery for those

negative stats in the rational drowning

big bold red numbers or whatever

negative emotion color is is on brand

for you and then when you've you've

convinced the buyer that they cannot

afford not to solve this problem and

doing nothing is not an option you

introduce A New Path forward that leads

them directly to your solution and

throughout these sections you're using

light backgrounds bright imagery Airy

friendly happy photography things like

that you need the visual story in your

pitch deck to enhance the verbal story

that you're telling the buyer

and then once you've built this you can

lean on your sales team or your friends

in marketing operations or Revenue

operations to help you measure its

Effectiveness add something to your CRM

that tracks which pitch deck a seller

uses at an opportunity to see what

drives bigger deals and faster close

times

these are definitely tougher metrics to

track than something like add clicks or

or video plays but in a demand gun

forward marketing world or function

they're necessary to using business

impact to drive creative decisions

so I'll leave I'll leave you with that

to Noodle on while we start getting into

I think some q a right now so I'll pass

it back to Kirsten

thanks Bree it's such a great

perspective to see how you're tracking

metrics within the sales process it's

it's a little bit different from I think

what we're used to in the digital

advertising World

um I guess then leading into that my

question is um to Evan Howe does

creative play a role in capturing

audience attention and generating

meaningful engagements in ads and in

Performance Marketing

really great question and for uh all my

performance marketers here or anyone

else who might be uh creative is the

number one lever of success when it

comes to everything Performance

Marketing when it comes to everything

paid ads and really what we're saying is

in like a post iOS 14 World creative is

the new targeting and why that's such a

true statement is basically we are

giving like ad platforms who have strong

algorithms the information needed to

determine who that ad goes to so what

that means in like layman terms is if I

have a thumbnail and I include my face

but let's say we are targeting

um I don't know who it might be men who

are 50 years old I'm given the algorithm

incorrect information to go and find the

right person so that creative does not

pair up with who I actually want to go

after so at that point my ads aren't

even going to deliver to the right

person so when you think about the

importance of it the entire thing is

storytelling the entire thing is is

giving the algorithm the right

information to drive sales for you uh so

that's why in a short version uh why

creative is the most important lever

tactics you've seen employed to

effectively align brand messaging with

sales objectives and growth targets

yeah great question I alluded to this a

little earlier but uh creative testing

needs to evolve

most people get it when it comes to the

basics of A B testing these days you you

change the the color of a button on an

ad and see which one gets the most

clicks but tomorrow's marketers will

have to go beyond that it's not just how

many clicks you get from that button

color it's how many clicks from that

button turned into a conversion on a

landing page that turned into a

qualified opportunity and how much

pipeline are we getting from that

opportunity the the button color is a

bit of an over simplified simplification

but it illustrates the point can you use

creative testing to evaluate whether

blue buttons attract in-market leads

that generate pipeline more than green

buttons

I think this idea of taking your A B

test all the way down the funnel does

require your creative and design

functions to be deeply embedded in your

sales objectives and growth goals as an

example Challengers marketing team is

accountable to marketing sourced

pipeline not mqls not engagement metrics

from like a high level North Star

um measurement of course we still we

still track those things to assess

creative But ultimately it's all about

pipeline generation and closed one

revenue and I hold my design team just

as responsible for meeting our pipeline

goal as I do demand gen and product

marketing I love that anyone else on the

team

that's awesome that's a that's a really

interesting approach

um just switching topics a little bit

even in today's competitive advertising

landscape how can you advise businesses

to strike a balance between data-driven

strategies and the importance of

creative storytelling there's always a a

tug of war um in a business around that

I love that question I'm super excited

to answer it I just wanted to add a

little bit of commentary to what Bree

had mentioned because like I just want

to make make sure the audience is like

tracking like that was gold in there

right like basically holding the

creative team accountable to numbers so

that could seem intimidating but what

we're really doing is like great giving

that creative team a bigger seat at the

table you're not like a pencil Pusher

anymore at the end of the day like

you're really just crushing it so Bree

Kudos that was awesome I love it

on on my end to get back to Kristen's

question there like highly competitive

landscape how can you strike a balance

the big thing for me is like controlling

what you can control and that's your

workflow so what I mean there is

ultimately something I hear all the time

is like Evan I need to make something

what the heck do I make where do I start

in the grand scheme of things I believe

I have a slide that I can share with you

all on this one but I think of it as the

creative strategy flywheel if you follow

these steps you'll be in a spot to

produce the best creative consistently

so what I mean by that is if we extract

ourselves from like sitting down and

what do we make tomorrow we have to

start in our first step of the process

which is actually research so research

involves things like combing through

different reviews we have combing

through comments we have on organic

social our tagged posts and everything

in between because what we're really

doing with research is building that

ideal Persona who is our buyer and how

are we going to go after them once we

conduct our research this is where we

can continue through the flywheel when

we talk ideation it's like what's the

appropriate look and feel what are the

appropriate angles and what are the

appropriate hooks to match up with the

Persona that we've gone against and you

can see here here through this entire

funnel what you've really done is that

you've emphasized the research to

determine who was the right buyer for

you and once you have that information

with options like before and after five

star review this or that any type of

creative concept you have you can

manipulate that to make sure you're

going after the intended audience and

then following the rest of this flywheel

that we see here so that's how I think

about it uh Kristen I hope that helps

I I like that it's a nice marriage of

customer pre-data and then looking at

how you can tell a story beautifully to

that audience

um Bree there's a question that's come

up um from Kate how are you maintaining

creative Integrity throughout all the

different pieces of collateral like the

ads socials and decks and I think

perhaps um even if you have some

thoughts here too

yeah I can uh take a stab at it first

and then Evan can pick up from there uh

I think this boils down to it may seem

very simple but your brand guidelines

and style guide I think you you need to

have that

understood agreed upon and documented in

in a way that provides the right guide

posts for Creative strategy design Etc

and then you're able to execute across

any different number of channels that

you know

that you need to within those those

guide posts so I think that's the the

most important guiding principle there

is is making sure that you have that

well documented and understood across

your team and across the the company as

a whole from top down because we all

know that Executives can get real

nitpicky about

design choices but if you have something

like a style guide to refer back to

you're good to go

I think I think Brie hit a nail in the

head like the only other thing I add is

just like when we when we I guess it's a

it's a different lens to look at it

through but basically the the style

guide is a handshake agreement I think

of like on brand as a sliding scale

right there could be a world where it's

like completely off-brand but all you

care about is sales and it's like are we

cool with that as a company answers

probably no but we have to be on the

same page right some type of style guide

and brand guidelines will give you that

insight

awesome

um and even looking at creative

performance

um and creative in a campaign can you

think of any examples where the priority

the prioritization of creative can has

significantly impacted the overall

performance and what are the key factors

that have contributed to this

yeah good question I can share one that

comes to mind for me I I can't give

numbers folks so I apologize but in the

chat is everybody familiar with like a

Facebook ads library or Tick Tock like

content Center type of thing

I'll let her I'll let it roll through a

little bit maybe not maybe yes okay well

regardless Facebook ad library is a

really good place to just initially

conduct some research to know what's

going on so uh a d2c brand that comes to

mind for me is modern bow not sure if

anyone's heard about them but they sell

some really cool jeans in the grand

scheme of things and when you're looking

in Facebook ad Library what it allows

you to do it allows you to see like how

long ago something was launched and if

it's currently active or not so a really

cool thing that you can start to do is

like if something was launched two years

ago and it's still live guess what it's

crushing it like we know that right so

the cool thing about Martin bow when

I've gone through we work with the team

but when I go through their Facebook ads

library of what gets uh quite

interesting is you'll notice common

themes across the board that are working

quite well one that I can share that I

know has been impactful for them is the

split screening of different creatives

split screening is typically thought of

as like before and after so it's like

this is your previous world this is the

new world but the way that they were

leveraging split screen split screens

it's quite interesting like they were

literally just focusing on on one side

the genes itself in a really close

version of that and on the other end the

reviews associated with it so they're

just taking that same amount of real

estate and making sure that they have

way more information for everyone to

share so that's one that I saw recently

when I was combing through my nerdy

Facebook ad library to figure out what's

going on there

I like that that's a great hack

um and then Brie in terms of customer

insights um how are you leveraging those

and data-driven research to inform the

developments of Creative Concepts and

messaging to enhance performance and

drive business results and I think a

little bit tying into Evan's flywheel on

how how the process can work how are you

leveraging that within Challenger yeah

you took the words right out of my mouth

because I I love this question the first

thing I thought of was what Evan was

just talking about I loved what she said

about especially the early the Early

steps of that flywheel and the research

and then also coming all the way back

around on the other end with the

analytics and how that plays into your

Creative Concepts messaging design Etc

uh I like this question a lot because it

gets to the idea of a data-driven design

culture someone once asked me what what

do I think is more important ideas or

data it was and it was actually my

current leader and Co a challenger Ally

when she was interviewing me for this

job which tough interview question am I

right

um to this day I feel like my answer

waffles between ideas or data depending

on what side of the bed I woke up on

that morning but

um I get a sense that some creatives and

designers feel that data stifles

creativity but it's actually the

opposite in my opinion data inspires

creativity and what you should take away

from what I said earlier about the role

of creative and design in your sales

messaging is that like designers are The

Architects of a great sales pitch when

you're mapping your buyer's journey and

allowing your ad experiences with it

designers are The Architects of the

story you tell there too and I think the

customer insights and the research that

you extract at the start and throughout

the campaign as you're optimizing are

critical to executing against the the

concepts and messaging and Design

designs that go along with that campaign

so I think that's what I would say about

that topic

cool

um and then a question that has come

from Whitney in the comments uh what are

some examples of metrics that are

appropriate to hold a creative team

accountable to

I was just gonna let you in to like

round out the round out the uh the

experience there just like managing the

team and how they can be the Architects

on my end when we're thinking creative

teams I like to keep it more engagement

metric focused so what we're starting to

look at there is like if we produce a

video have we effectively gotten people

to stop their Scrolls so what's like a

thumb stop ratio threshold and it's like

let's gauge the team off of that we can

continue that down the funnel to say

like have we gotten the click-through

rate we're happy with

um sales is harder just because

attribution is always a little bit

tricky but I focus on those top of

funnel metrics that the team can get

inspired around and ultimately like

build their creative around

um and then we're just looking

how to develop cross-functional

relationships within the team like do

you have any strategies right

initiatives that have been successful in

driving that collaboration and knowledge

sharing within a creative team

yeah great question I think

accountability is huge here if you don't

make time for Learning and knowledge

sharing it won't happen

it's also top down as Leaders it's our

job to create a culture that supports

collaboration and knowledge sharing

some tips that immediately come to mind

schedule it a a predictable and

recurring event completely dedicated to

something like this is great for

accountability and also setting

expectations

acknowledge and highlight when it

happens we love sharing wins and

learnings in our team meetings and then

make it fun we've done something called

teach me something dope not just for

Creative teams but for all teams and it

was a hit so that's those are some ideas

that I can share

I love those

um and then just Evan looking ahead what

emerging Trends or changes in consumer

Behavior do you think will have the most

significant impacts on the importance of

creative and Performance Marketing

uh yeah lots of things like looming

recession iOS 17 anything that comes out

there is always uh always a little bit

of an uncertainty but I think a big

thing is um know your business metrics

it's like where do you need to like

achieve a mirror or whatever success

metric you look at that's going to keep

you profitable and then when we're

thinking about like developing creative

specifically it's a boring answer but I

ultimately come back to like you control

what you can control which is that

process so that's why I lean so heavily

into that creative strategy flywheel

more or less

cool and I I guess the question to you

both is how do you Foster a culture of

experimentation and continuous

Improvement within your teams

um particularly adapting to the changing

Dynamics

um and really identifying the scalable

approach to your creative work

yeah I can jump in quick here so on my

end like I really like the Frameworks

just having a general framework that

people can get behind and when Brie had

gotten that question during the

interview it's like do you care about

data or ideas I love that question I

feel like I want to start asking people

that but something that comes to mind

for me is like giving people permission

to understand like when does data matter

the most versus when do ideas matter the

most so the initial like high level

framework that I walk through is hey

team are we focusing on like a net new

creative so we have a Persona let's

figure out something new to go after

them with so it's like we get a chance

to throw things at the wall and

prioritize what makes sense but once

that creative is live in the ad account

that's what we can shift from net New

Creation to iteration Instead This is

where you have a ton of data available

to then say okay let's break down the

data points or the modules of a video to

understand where we should make a change

Based on data so having a framework like

that allows the team to like understand

which part of their brain they're

tapping into a little bit more and how I

typically wrap the this into a nice

present or a gift is uh with a an agile

methodology essentially so I call them

creative Sprints and that's where you're

determining whatever Cadence it might be

based on capacity and spend of how

frequently are you going through that

flywheel could be a two-week Cadence

could be a four-week Cadence and you can

layer on net new creative as well as um

iterations a bunch of stuff I can talk

about later but yeah that's that's what

comes to mind for me yeah I think that's

huge that's such a great way to

structure it and you know having some of

those repeatable processes the the idea

of a creative Sprint

um it it helps create that culture right

you you can you can say it as much as

you want and encourage experimentation

but if you don't have the right

processes parameters that allow for that

you're not going to be able to actually

see see people taking advantage of that

that uh and and doing those experiments

so I think that's a really really great

piece of advice you just shared Evan

awesome

cool um and then just looking to

um

a question in the comments I'm from

Christy so can you provide guidance on

how we can encourage our clients and

stakeholders to share metrics and

results in order to improve development

of creative content assuming Christie's

in the creative team that doesn't

regularly share that

yeah from an internal stakeholder

perspective since you know I'm I'm an

in-house uh marketing leader

it there's a there's a need for

transparency and close collaboration

with you know marketing operations or

Revenue operations and you know it

requires some some sales and marketing

alignment which I know is a cheesy

buzzword but something that we all

should be striving for

um

the right

tracking mechanisms in place in you know

your CRM or in you know all the way down

the funnel when I was talking earlier

about like some of those sales metrics

you're gonna have to work with those

teams and collaborate for people to

report back on those things it's it's

challenging and you have to put yourself

out there to kind of extend and and meet

halfway on those things but it's worth

it because again you're getting back to

how those the the business impact of

your creative and design and and

campaign decisions so it's it's really

important to to make that a priority

anything you would add to that Evan

trouble Tech partner standpoint honestly

have a Shameless plug to views motion

like we'll make it look really good for

you and you can see what's going on but

uh to extrapolate it Beyond motion I

take it back to like measurement of

creative teams that Brie was talking

about and I shared some metrics around

it's like understand the metrics that

you want once you know those you'll

realize or the client will realize

you're not asking for the world so you

can start to get information that breaks

down just creative performance in

general and that should give you a place

to start is what I'd say

cool and speaking of teams um do you

have any tips or key skills that you

look for when you're assembling your

creative teams to drive both creativity

and performance in your areas

I definitely do the one is like I I need

a it's somewhat of a unicorn hire that

can be trained but I need someone who

can like think in data or understand

data or has a want to understand data

but can also be creative so it's like

literally leveraging both sides of the

sides of the brain that someone uh could

be a project manager we call it a

creative strategist app motion

um but that's what I'm really looking

for typically

yeah that's huge I think also for me

it's uh

someone who

is willing to take the initiative to

bring forward new ideas there's a great

comment in the chat about the we've

always done it this way attitude and how

you know designers need to be willing to

come forward with something that

disrupts the way that things have always

been done and I'm looking for someone

who's who's willing to challenge me

challenge others in the organization to

try new things and to bring forward

those experiments because you know I

have a lot of ideas but I only have so

many and there's a lot of things that

someone who is a designer first is going

to bring forward that I hadn't thought

of and so you know I want I want to look

for team members who are willing to to

put themselves out there and try those

experiments instead of going with the

safe bet and I think that's a special

kind of person

that's great and and sticking to the

team what role do you think leadership

plays in fostering that culture of

um scalability and team building within

the creative and performance teams

yeah

yeah

um I I think it I mentioned this a

little bit earlier you know it comes

from the top down so you have to

um set an example in this case of you

know encouraging that kind of

experimentation scalability all those

things that you just mentioned

um and and be the one bringing forward

those Concepts too

um you know you gotta get the brainstorm

started so it as your job you know as a

leader you create the right space for it

maybe you're setting aside time for

those kinds of things and and you you

start the brainstorm and then you let

everyone have a seat at the table and

bring forward their ideas to

um that's that's what I would say

love that and in my end like I have a

bias for startups like I love the

startup world and small tight teams so

take that with a grain of salt to

everybody but I I really lean into like

what role does leadership play into it I

lean into the ownership that brie is

talking about so I really like to think

of it as like individual team hour team

members who feel safe enough and

empowered enough to come to the table

with those ideas and leadership's role

in that it could be as like I don't I

don't I don't like dictatorships more

than anything but what I like to do is

is rotate ownership of meetings so it's

just like hey I might run one and here's

a general structure we could follow but

Brie here's another one you jump in What

are some ways you think we can make it

better get everyone thinking so not um

everyone doesn't only own hey this is my

contribution to the meeting but they can

think about like how would this be done

better if it was to fall into their

world again startup heavy but uh

thoughts that come to my mind

G and or you can streamline and use

automation tools to drive creative

workflows Evan do you have any thoughts

on how those kind of tools and the new

technologies particularly around AI can

start to facilitate scalability while

maintaining the creative Excellence

within your team 100 so I talk a lot

about research right like it's like

build your personas and it's like what

angles do we use and all of that kind of

stuff so I never see at least I might

have a blind eye to it but I don't think

AI is ever going to replace a designer

at the end of the day we've seen some

stuff that doesn't look great but

ultimately where I think AI can really

Empower designers is you can just like

prompt a chat gbt to say hey go collect

all of my reviews off of Amazon and rank

it from Five Star to one SAR so you're

just starting to see what people like

you can tell the scan your website or

comb through a bunch of data that's

available to build out those personas

and that just gives you a starting place

for who you're going after and then all

of a sudden you get to walk in be that

creative person and say oh it's our

already available this is what I can

pair them up with so there's a I think I

think when we're talking AI there's a

lot of opportunity that's one of them

that comes to mind for me

yeah and we one of the things we talked

about when we were prepping too is the

idea of like personalization and

personalization at scale where AI can

play a huge role in uh in enabling that

and making making that possible in

Creative campaigns and serving you know

different kinds of ads based on the the

viewer right something that immediately

comes to mind for me is a Spotify

wrapped every year they they aggregate

your listening activity into like an

Instagram story-ish set of videos with

your top artists and your most listened

to songs hours spent listening I think

they even started doing your mood based

on what you listen to which I will not

share mine because it's embarrassing but

super personalized but also super

shareable right the fact that it's been

designed to be shared on social media is

great for reach but also like the

community engagement and a sense of

belonging within that community

and you know it's it's all algorithmic

AI powered it you know it's something

that everyone can start uh tapping into

in their own creative especially with

the proliferation of AI tools that can

help enable some of this like

customization personalization in your

creative in your ad campaigns

nice

um I think we've got time for two more

questions so

um I'm just gonna throw it out and

whoever would like to have a go we can

answer so in terms of scalability what

considerations are you keeping in mind

when expanding into new markets

um or targeting different customer

segments with your creative efforts

like just like with with the performance

marketing side of things like we're

lucky to get data back in the grand

scheme of things right so there's two

parts to it there's the creative itself

but there's also just like understanding

the algorithm and like what information

you're getting back right so when we

start on the data end if you're slowly

making your way into new markets you can

start to see like where is Facebook or

meta for example determining to spend my

budget I might open it up to three

geographies but I notice budgets only go

on a two of them so that means I have my

work cut out for me to get into the

other ones or um like I basically need

to reevaluate my creative approach so

the data can start to tell you what's

going on and then creatively speaking it

just depends in in like where in the

world you're starting to break into I've

said personas a million times already

because I believe in them so much it's

just like understand who you're going

after and those geographies and then

it's the basics so it's just like when

you develop the creative make sure it

matches the language in the areas which

will help deliverability of your ads

um so the short version of that is like

the data will help determine like what

people are or where the algorithm wants

to lead into you for you and then

depending on the data you can make

changes based on Persona language

everything in between

personas are huge there too my mind in

that question went to probably because

we just recently had a go to market

product launch so that was this is this

is a at the front of my mind based on

recent experience but uh it really does

get it gets back to that defining those

personas if you are launching a new

product or launching a product to a new

customer segment or New Market

um you know really huge to Divine that

from the get-go and get into not just

the demographics but the the

psychographics of that person what what

do they care about what you know what I

hate saying what keeps them up at night

but you know what what are the the

problems that they're facing and that

are most important to them and and

speaking to it um the the choreography I

talked about earlier uh we call it a

commercial insight and that's that's

really what we're getting to in that

commercial Insight is is nailing the

messaging down to

um that that business problem that

they're facing and what they may not

know about it and and that really is

kind of a critical part of our Persona

building process too um so that I think

is is the the first step that has all

the the downstream impact into the the

creative implications messaging

implications everything like that

cool um this

question here in the comments from

Jacqueline I think more conservative

Industries how do designers challenge

without disrupting relationships oh

that's that's a tough one

um Evan do you have any thoughts on that

on how designers manage up essentially

during this process is kind of how I

think about it right so slower

Industries just to Define it a little

bit more what I think of are like

um maybe maybe large B2B companies or

like financial institutions or

commercial real estate like falling into

that Worlds the biggest thing that I

always try to recommend is like don't

just be a pencil Pusher all of the

briefing systems and all the processes

in place are ultimately set up for you

to receive a brief and then create

against that in a templated format right

and the biggest thing that I always

recommend as a starting place is like to

play the game of pencil Pusher receive

the brief but is there any way that you

can make the template like maybe five

times better five times is a lot sorry

five percent better coming in there so

so diving and diving in and thinking

about it like that but ultimately over

time what my hope is at least is when I

talk about left brain and right brain at

the beginning of this conversation is

that the designers are are confident

enough and able enough to actually build

relationships with like the marketing

managers who are submitting some of

these requests how are they thinking

about the world how does that then shape

into design so now that context is going

to allow you to make better

recommendations that are a lot more

informed and hopefully you feel more

confident about what you're recommending

in that case so a little bit of what I

think of

yeah and let the

let the creative testing and data speak

for it you know if someone wants to tell

you we can't we've never done this

before so no uh you say well how do you

know until we test it it's like bring It

Forward do a task against a control

group you know follow get a little

scientific with it and and let that you

know decide whether it's something that

you should continue doing especially in

those more conservative industries that

might be resistant to change or not as

open to new ideas it's like

we don't know until we try and and let

the audience tell you what you should be

doing

and I think that also goes back to a

previous question that an audience

member had asked like how do we get data

back from these people we work with so

in that instance we spoke about clients

but this is also another instance where

your client is technically like a

marketing manager or someone else right

so that goes back to understanding like

what metrics that you would want to ask

for because once you make that request

it allows you to quantify and then

that's some of the data like Bree speaks

about that lets you have that bigger

picture and better story

foreign

I think we can squeeze in one more

question and it's really about future

thinking so are there any strategies or

approaches you anticipate implementing

in your teams or we'd recommend the

audience implementing their teams to

help both scalability and creative and

performance and the marketing Endeavors

of businesses

really would you like to kick this one

off yeah what uh what immediately came

to mind for me at Challenger we we made

this shift to an account based marketing

approach for our paid advertising

campaigns this year and it has opened

the doors for our team to experiment in

lots of ways even getting back to the

personalization uh that I was talking

about earlier more so than we've been

able to do in the past I'll I'll share

one example of what we're dabbling in

right now uh like many others in this

market were heavily focused on retaining

and growing our existing client accounts

and we work with some complex Enterprise

accounts where we may only work with a

few business units or divisions and we

want to expand into others and we're

exploring digital ad campaigns targeted

those specific accounts using ABM

software that surfaces a specific case

study or performance results from our

work that we've already done with that

account in those other business student

units and divisions to break into the

ones that we're not into so it's a it's

a different flavor of personalization

and we're still in testing but we're

optimistic in that being a repeatable

strategy that we can use for expansion

expansion and retention with current

clients

we got to talk about that offline Bree

that's awesome I love the account based

piece uh I'll take it the route so Brits

take uh Breeze taken it the like the

really strong tactical and I don't think

I can add more value than her there I'll

take it to like the personal

um like advice recommendation on that

level so audience members what I'll say

here is I've spoken about left brain and

right brain folks if you're more right

brain I'd say like get started and try

to learn more of the left and be

creative and then if you're more left

brain and creative try to start learning

some of that data now you might be

thinking like Evan what the heck how the

hell do I even start with that right so

if everyone can remember with that

flywheel I showcased what you'll notice

here is like just pick a place and

that's where you can begin so what I

mean by that is our data oriented people

it's going to be very natural for you to

look at a thumb stop ratio a CTR and

make recommendations so start there

that's allowing you to be creative so

you're identifying where to make the

change as a creative person on your ends

you're very very comfortable being in a

cap cut a canva Adobe be wherever it

might be and that's where you live the

next step for you is like literally

asking like where is this going to live

like is it going to be in social media

okay what metrics do I care about and

then the media buyer can advise you and

just taking that first step to learn a

little bit more about the other side

um is what I've seen work wonders for a

lot of people who I believe are in this

audience and who I've chatted with in

the past

great

so thank you so much Evelyn and Brie for

your time and sharing your insights has

been really great

um I'm really excited to see how our

audience can take some tactical things

back to gay teams and I guess that's all

from us

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