EP-090 王小帅：中国电影怎么了？

Summary

在本期的Bumingbai播客中，主持人袁立邀请了第六代导演王小帅，深入探讨了他在审查制度下的电影创作经历和挑战。王小帅分享了他的最新作品《肥沃的土地》在未经审查机构批准的情况下参加柏林国际电影节的背后故事，以及他如何在压抑的创作环境中坚持自我表达和历史真实。他对中国电影的现状和未来进行了深刻的反思，探讨了中国电影与国际标准的差距，以及创作者在表达自由和审查制度之间的挣扎。通过王小帅的个人经历和见解，节目旨在引发观众对中国电影及其创作自由的深入思考。

Takeaways

• 🎬 王小帅的新电影《沃土》在没有审查机构批准的情况下参加了柏林国际电影节。
• 📽️ 王小帅自1993年以来一直在与审查机关斗争，其作品多年来无法在中国公映。
• 🔒 尽管王小帅的电影从2004年开始对外公开，但像所有中国电影人一样，他也面临审查的挑战。
• 🎞️ 《沃土》背景设定在土地改革和大饥荒期间，探讨了为什么中国电影界未能像韩国那样产出一流的电影。
• 📜 王小帅在影片中聚焦于历史和历史中的小人物，反映出他对当前审查制度和自我审查的深刻思考。
• 🤔 对于未来，王小帅提出了自己与国家的关系，以及他对这种单向恋爱关系的看法。
• 🌍 王小帅通过参加柏林电影节，展示了他希望推动中国电影走向国际，突破审查限制的决心。
• 📚 在访谈中，王小帅推荐了几本对他影响深刻的书籍，包括雷蒙德·阿隆的《知识分子的鸦片》和《凯恩斯对哈耶克》。
• 💔 王小帅表达了他对电影的热爱与遗憾，尤其是对于那些因审查而未能与观众见面的作品。
• 🌐 尽管面临诸多挑战，王小帅仍积极寻求创新和合作的可能，展望中国电影的未来。

Q & A

王小帅导演为什么要将《肥沃的土地》带到柏林电影节？

王小帅导演希望电影能够生存下去，并决定打开这扇门，就像他30年前做的那样，希望能够推动一些积极的变化。

《肥沃的土地》在中国未经审查机构批准就参加了柏林国际电影节，这代表着什么？

这代表着王小帅导演愿意冒险，即使可能面临官方的压力和限制，也要让他的作品在国际上被看见，展示他对电影艺术的执着和勇气。

王小帅导演是如何描述他与中国电影审查制度之间的关系？

王小帅导演将他与审查制度之间的关系描述为一场持续的斗争，尽管2004年之后一些电影得以公开放映，但作为中国电影人，他依然需要面对审查的挑战。

为什么中国没有像韩国那样生产出许多一流的电影？

王小帅认为，审查和自我审查以及不利于创作自由的环境是主要障碍，这限制了电影的创新和多样性，导致中国电影在国际上的表现不如韩国。

王小帅为什么将电影镜头对准历史和历史中的小人物？

他认为通过关注历史和小人物，可以深入探讨社会变迁和人性的复杂性，从而制作出有深度和共鸣的作品。

王小帅导演未来的计划是什么？

尽管面临诸多挑战，王小帅导演依旧希望继续制作电影，探索新的创作方向，并期望能够在保留创作自由的同时回归中国继续他的电影事业。

王小帅如何看待中国电影的现状和创作者的困境？

他认为虽然中国电影在票房上取得了成功，但审查制度和市场的限制抑制了创新和艺术表达，导致创作者面临重大的挑战和痛苦。

王小帅是如何处理他与中国的关系，特别是在他的电影事业面临审查和限制时？

王小帅通过持续制作具有挑战性的电影，并勇敢地在国际舞台上展示他的作品，试图寻找和中国电影审查之间的平衡点，同时保持对电影艺术的热爱和追求。

王小帅为何强调电影需要“敲打这扇门”？

他比喻电影创作和展示的过程为“敲打一扇门”，意在挑战现有的限制和规范，寻求更多的创作自由和表达空间，希望通过这种努力促进变革。

王小帅在电影事业中面临的主要挑战是什么？

主要挑战包括审查制度的限制、市场对电影内容的约束以及如何在保持艺术真实性和创作自由的同时，让电影得以公映和被观众接受。

Outlines

00:00

🎥 电影制作与审查

本段讨论了导演王小帅的电影生涯，特别是他如何面对中国电影审查的挑战。他谈到了自己的最新作品《肥沃的土地》在未经审查的情况下参加柏林电影节的经历，并反思了自己30年前与审查作斗争的历程。王小帅分享了他为什么会坚持在艰难的环境中拍摄电影，尤其是聚焦于土地改革和大饥荒等历史题材，以及他对中国电影和电影制作者面临的挑战的看法。

05:05

🌏 国际舞台上的表达自由

王小帅在本段讲述了将电影带往国际舞台的动机和经历，以及这一行动对他和他的作品意味着什么。他表达了对当前中国电影环境的担忧，特别是审查制度如何限制了电影的创造和表达自由。王小帅还分享了他对未来中国电影行业的展望，包括市场化和技术发展如何可能带来正面变化。

10:07

🔍 历史与电影

在这一部分中，王小帅深入探讨了历史在他电影作品中的作用，以及为什么他认为面对过去对于一个国家来说至关重要。他分享了自己如何通过电影来记录和反思中国的历史事件，以及这对于理解当代中国社会有何意义。

15:08

📈 中国电影的市场与挑战

本段聚焦于中国电影市场的现状，王小帅对电影票房的看法，以及他认为影响创意和电影质量的因素。他批评了现行的电影审查制度和市场保护主义，认为这些政策限制了中国电影的创新和国际竞争力。

20:09

🎨 创作自由与技术进步

王小帅在这部分讨论了创作自由的重要性以及技术进步如何影响电影制作。他特别提到了AI和数字技术给电影创作带来的机遇，以及他对未来电影制作和国际合作趋势的看法。

25:11

🌍 电影的国际化与合作

在本段中，王小帅谈到了中国电影与国际市场的关系，以及为何跨国合作对于中国电影的国际化至关重要。他讨论了电影节的作用、文化交流的重要性，以及中国电影面临的挑战和机遇。

30:12

❤️ 对国家的爱：有待回应

王小帅在这一部分反思了他与中国这个国家之间的关系，尤其是在他作为电影导演的职业生涯中，如何经历了爱与不被爱的过程。他通过比喻来描述这种复杂的情感，表达了对未来的不确定性和持续的创作热情。

35:14

📚 文化与个人成长

在最后一段中，王小帅分享了对于阅读和电影的个人推荐，以及这些作品如何影响了他的思考和创作。他强调了文化对个人成长和理解世界的重要性，以及他对未来创作自由的乐观态度。

Keywords

💡审查制度

审查制度是指政府或其他组织对媒体内容进行审查和控制的制度。在视频中，王小帅谈到他的电影《沃土》未经审查机构批准就参加了柏林国际电影节，体现了他对中国电影审查制度的挑战和抗争。这一制度对电影内容和表达方式有严格限制，导致很多敏感或批判性的内容难以通过审核。

💡创作自由

创作自由是艺术家进行创作活动时不受外界限制的能力，包括思想表达和选择题材的自由。视频中，王小帅对于如何在审查制度下保持创作自由进行了深入探讨，说明了创作者在限制条件下寻求表达真实声音的困难和挑战。

💡沃土

《沃土》是王小帅导演的一部电影，影片主题涉及土地改革和大饥荒等敏感历史事件。王小帅在视频中提到，他将这部电影带到柏林国际电影节，目的是为了让影片得以生存和传播，也体现了他试图通过艺术表达历史真相的决心。

💡历史

历史在王小帅的电影作品中常作为背景和主题出现，反映了个体经历和社会变迁。在视频中，他谈及对历史的执着，以及如何通过电影记录和反思历史，特别是那些影响深远的历史事件和时期，如文化大革命和经济改革。

💡电影节

电影节是影片展示和竞赛的公开场所，为导演和电影工作者提供了展示作品和交流经验的平台。视频中提到王小帅将《沃土》带到柏林国际电影节，这既是一种艺术表达的策略，也是绕过国内审查制度、寻求国际认可的手段。

💡市场化

市场化是指将经济和社会活动交由市场机制来调节和控制。王小帅在讨论中国电影的发展时提到市场化过程，讨论了这一过程对电影行业产生的积极和消极影响，特别是在提高电影质量和推动创新方面的作用。

💡审查

审查是指对媒体、文学、艺术等内容进行检查和控制，以确保它们符合特定的政治、道德或宗教标准。在视频中，王小帅讨论了他如何应对和挑战中国的电影审查制度，以及审查对电影创作和发行的限制效应。

💡表达

表达在视频中指的是通过电影这种艺术形式来传递导演和创作者的思想、情感和观点。王小帅在采访中讨论了创作自由对艺术表达的重要性，以及审查制度如何限制这种表达。

💡国际认可

国际认可是指一个国家、组织或个人获得国际社会的认同和接受。视频中，王小帅提到他将电影带到国际电影节是为了获得国际认可，这反映了中国电影人寻求突破国内限制、在全球舞台上展示自己作品的努力。

💡自我审查

自我审查是指在发布或展示内容前，个人或组织主动限制或修改自己的言论或作品，以避免触犯政府政策或社会规范。视频中王小帅谈到了中国电影界面临的自我审查问题，这不仅影响创意的真实性，也限制了艺术的多样性和深度。

Highlights

王小帅导演介绍他的电影《肥沃之地》在未经审查机构批准下参加柏林国际电影节的经历。

王小帅讨论自从1993年以来与审查制度的长期斗争。

王小帅谈论在中国电影行业的审查压力下如何保持创作自由。

关于中国电影不如韩国产生一流电影的原因分析。

王小帅强调历史和小人物在他电影中的重要性。

讨论中国电影市场与审查之间的关系及其对创作的影响。

王小帅对当前中国电影创作环境的感受和评价。

王小帅揭示在审查制度下创作的心理压力和挑战。

探讨中国电影的国际化和在国际电影节上的表现。

王小帅对于中国电影未来方向和可能性的展望。

王小帅讲述个人在电影行业的历史使命感和责任。

讨论电影作为记录和反映社会历史的重要性。

王小帅对于中国电影审查的批评和个人经历的分享。

对于中国电影产业与市场现状的深度分析。

王小帅对中国与国际电影合作的看法和期待。

王小帅探讨个人与中国这个国家的复杂情感关系。

Transcripts

Hello everyone, welcome to the Bumingbai Podcast. I am the host Yuan Li.

This week we will broadcast my interview with the sixth-generation director Wang Xiaoshuai.

There will be a video version on our YouTube channel.

In the future, we will do video programs from time to time depending on the subject matter.

Recently The film Fertile Ground directed by Wang Xiaoshuai participated in the Berlin International Film Festival

without the approval of the censorship body. After that,

a widely circulated public account article on WeChat

was titled "Another movie destined not to be released in China." It

was shot at one's own expense in 1993.

Wang Xiaoshuai has been fighting against the censorship authorities since the days of "Winter and Spring".

He spent ten years underground and

the films he produced could not be released in China.

Although they went to the public after 2004,

like all Chinese filmmakers

He also needs to face censorship.

He said that when discussing ideas with other filmmakers,

the question he always thinks about is

whether it will be possible to make this film

. He said that he took Fertile Land to Berlin this time

because he wanted to do the same thing 30 years ago.

He wanted movies to survive,

so he decided to open this door. He

said that this situation started 30 years ago and it came

back half a century ago. It’s incredible.

In this interview,

Wang Xiaoshuai talked about his experience as a lens director

under censorship. Why did he choose to shoot

in such a harsh current situation ? The background is the fertile soil of land reform and the Great Famine

. Why did China not produce many first-class films like South Korea?

Why did he focus the film lens on history and small figures in history? What are

his plans for the future

and his relationship with Is the relationship in this country

an unrequited love relationship?

I hope that this conversation can help us answer a big question.

What is happening to Chinese movies?

What kind of struggles and pain are movie creators experiencing

under the surface prosperity?

I want to ask When you

decided to participate in this year's Berlin Film Festival

without the approval of the film bureau,

you should have known at the time what doing so would mean to the fertile soil, right?

We

who make movies all year round know this. Censorship and self-censorship

are followed by changes in the environment,

especially in the past few years.

In fact, I don’t know what others think.

From my perspective, it seems that the atmosphere is becoming more

and more oppressive and tighter

. I can feel it

, although I am not in the middle. Just take the film and submit it for review.

After this process, I feel that

once it is released,

the circle may come around again for

30 years. It may go back to the winter and spring days of 1994

or the bicycle in 2000. In this circle

, I don’t know whether it is spiraling up or going back.

The specific things

are because now we are asked to evacuate

, but there is currently no specific explanation

of what will be done

, but it may be based on the so-called film regulations or laws.

I won’t say that

any film festival seems to have problems if you don’t go there without Dragon Ball,

so I know these things,

but I think it’s still a concept of creation in my mind

, and I have formulated many, many current rules.

I think there is room for improvement

in the rules.

It is a place that really hinders creation.

It is also true that because of such a treaty of will,

it actually prevents movies from going out.

Regardless of whether the movie conforms to a certain ideology

, it is It will hinder this movie from going abroad,

because when Chinese movies always talk about going out,

you can't say that you are wishful thinking, and I will send you out.

You have to be the real audience. Audiences

outside China want to watch and accept a certain kind of movie

. It’s called going out.

You can’t say that you have to watch this movie.

People don’t like to watch it, and they can’t force

it. So I think this set of methods

must be an obstacle.

I think it is an obstacle.

Then I will try it and see if I can promote it. I immediately

said that I did such a thing myself

and went to eat a crab.

I didn’t expect that 30 years later

, I would circle back to the same point and go up.

I think it is really a pity

. That is to say, it is always

going up. It was a very, very promising situation,

and then it changed like this,

so I decided to say it

, let’s do it for the movie,

because what I am most regretful about? What

I am most regretful about is our friends who make movies.

Everyone celebrates the New Year every year. During the festival,

we are all in a big group. In the big group,

everyone is watching the new movie. When will it come out? How about it?

Really, I can’t stand it in my heart.

I can’t stand their earnest wishes.

So do you think there is that kid

? Ouyang Wenxin,

a little boy ,

he brings a recording to me

every year during the Chinese New Year and any holiday.

I am embarrassed to tell him what the current situation of this movie is.

I think it will continue like this when others have grown up, and

I feel very sorry inside.

I can’t let go. I hope you can let him know the hard work you put in earlier.

You can see the movie I acted in is released now.

You can do it like him with a small water gun

. You can tell the children that you saw the movie I acted in.

Actually, this is what I want. The

investment in production also includes our investor in the Netherlands,

because I think why the situation should change?

That is to say, when we cooperate with others, we have signed a contract, and there is a contract, and

the time and money they paid, etc., etc.

So can you share your inner thoughts when you finally made the decision?

It was

the moment when you said forget it, I won’t play with them anymore.

I don’t know if there was such a moment

when you made this decision. Of course it was. It has to be made under huge pressure

, so maybe all the judgments will ultimately revolve around the film itself

. I mean, because I think everything will change

. Sometimes I think back to the person I was 30 years ago and became an underground film director

. It’s an era of planned economy

, but as long as you insist on doing what you do, you’re not doing anything wrong. I think

then, in 2003, wouldn’t it be marketized later?

Has it changed again? Can we directors be allowed to make movies?

Then it will change. He said that

I think he is in our thinking and he should change in the right and good direction.

So after marketization, you see

the Chinese movie box office is so popular now. There are so many people in the industry

, so it stands to reason that he should If we go forward and open up more boldly and confidently,

then the market will be bigger.

Everyone hopes to surpass the United States. If you do this, you will definitely surpass it.

Because China has such a large population base

and so many people like to watch movies

, then I think it will also move forward.

Although I encountered such and such things in 1993 and 2000,

I said that maybe if I encounter it now,

what should I do?

Because I want a movie to let him survive ,

so it is equivalent to pushing the door open

or Knock on this door.

Knock on it.

Is there any response? Is there anyone

? Maybe this door will open one day. So

if you don’t have a movie to knock on this door

and don’t do it

, then this door may not respond

and it won’t change.

Then I I believe that 30 years later, I will return to this point

just like I did back then. I may be reckless

for the sake of movies

, and

everything will come back

at the Berlin Film Festival. It was also a public day at the Berlin Film Festival

, so I guess it is fate.

I think it may be possible. If I do this and

open the door,

I think it is my duty,

because I am a film maker and

I am only responsible for the film

. So I also want to especially change or promote

a good and truly sustainable policy

and form it. It is a truly positive interaction between

our management and our creative staff. Only when

everyone protects each other's responsibilities and duties

can we do a good job.

So that's all I can think of,

so I can only say let the movie exist first, right

? So

what kind of pressure did you and the production company face

after your movie was released at the Berlin Film Festival

? Is there anything official said

? Actually, I'm fine.

After I made this decision

, I actually On the contrary, the burden was put down

, and the decision

was not made. After much thought or in the process, it was very tiring.

Once it was released

, it was undecided and it was impossible to withdraw it.

The exam was already there,

and it was already hung up. In fact, I feel comfortable if

they want to put it on their plate.

I think fundamentally speaking,

I also feel that I didn’t make a big mistake.

I didn’t do anything wrong,

just make my movie.

I don’t know if you have memorized it now.

We don’t know yet

, but will you still be able to make films in China in the future?

Are there any pressures like

this ? This is something that has to be considered.

I mean, follow these regulations.

I can’t say what to follow. Just

follow the regulations.

If this is the case,

it seems to be. You are not allowed to make movies in the country for five years.

Do you not know

what other aspects of this fine

are there?

I also want to ask,

that is, there is a question that

I believe many people have asked you,

which is why China cannot be like South Korea and Japan.

There are many first-class movies

that you just said have gone out and

really gone out.

People are willing to watch your movies.

Some people even say that they are not as good as

Iranian movies that also have censorship systems. This

is an issue that many people discuss.

He is also a very knowledgeable person.

He is also using Iran as an example.

But in fact, I think soil is very important,

that is, you can really say that

you can occasionally grow a good seedling and a good tree

in the cracks of rocks.

But if you say Your real soil is fertile and

free of

air conditioners and rainy weather.

Then what grows is not a seedling.

It may be a real forest.

I think this is a basic logic and try to see that

we can't say it is

us though. It's a small fish movie.

In the world's entire movie landscape,

it can't rely on an occasional seedling to pop up.

Its follow-up is

really powerless.

The bigger it is, the larger the denominator is,

the more possibilities it generates

in terms of quantity. Qualitative change

, in fact, Korea is like this.

You don’t need to talk about Korea, it is equivalent to saying

that. In fact, Korean movies

were the fifth generation in the 1980s.

They were also very envious of China.

At that time, reform and opening up was booming.

Korean movies

and filmmakers have experienced them. At that

time, Korean films

fought a lot in order to

overturn the changes in

the censorship of Korean films.

We all know that there was the skinhead movement, and

everyone was very united.

In fact, the censorship of Korean films at that time was also very authoritarian

and very authoritarian. It was so powerful

that it gradually passed through some promotions.

Then after the promotion

, the themes were closely matched.

First of all, I think Korean movies are closely related to the themes.

Suddenly there are no restrictions.

That is to say, those things that may be very pornographic and explosive

are released all at once.

The world was shocked that

the gentle Koreans have this side of the underworld,

including the conflict between the north and the south,

etc. All these movies have come out

, then it is like the soil I said, it is nutritious,

the soil is free,

so people It is said that freedom is a lying soil.

First of all, you are a lying soil.

It is freedom that cultivates this lying soil. Then

let's start

. Then we are really

talking about this fortune.

The high-spirited fortune in the 1980s and 1990s

is worthy of vigilance,

right? It

’s a pity that this fortune has disappeared. On the contrary,

in

the early 1990s, at first

I thought I was a little seedling rising to the top.

Now I suddenly feel like

I’m back here again.

Suddenly I have changed. When I feel bored, I feel

very lonely.

It’s not like that time. I can

look forward to

the future

. What should I do if I suddenly feel down now

? What will the future look like?

At that time, I felt that in the 1990s,

we and the entire society were on an upward path

. Although it has passed We were in that special period

, but the economy was heading upwards.

When we returned to this point,

we returned to the current point.

I feel that I may be more confused than at that time,

and I am no longer in my twenties.

So

I thought of that. You said five years,

you are sixty this year to 57, 58 and five years,

right,

then you are over sixty years old,

over sixty years old,

yes,

this is

really the time

when I think about it, it’s really scary. In

fact, at this age,

if you are in good health

and have enough energy,

it is the best time

to create.

Yes, it is

true.

But movies are one aspect

,

there are too many people,

whether they are artists or intellectuals

. As a reporter

, I have been repeating this story over the past few years.

I have to say

this. It’s

really a little bit. How can I put it?

The feeling of tightening my heart

is

not like that time. No matter what the problem is,

there is nothing wrong.

What is there is that kind of exploration process.

You are letting go,

you are brave,

and even to a certain extent, your state of mind is free.

Now it seems to be tightened.

Everyone is tight.

What is the overall feeling of tightness? What it means

is that the heart is not at ease

and open, and

everyone is very careful

to put it away.

No matter what you do, you

will always be nervous.

As we just talked about,

Chinese movies

actually seem to be doing very well at the box office

. For example, the total box office of the Spring Festival Party in 2024

reached 7.844 billion

, which is a new

high

for the Spring Festival Party in the history of Chinese film. Some people will say that there is nothing wrong with Chinese movies.

Chinese people like to watch Chinese movies now.

Even Hollywood movies have been defeated by Chinese movies.

You guys People who complain about movies

are disappointed because they can’t produce works that audiences like.

How would you respond to such a statement?

This statement has been like this

for many years

. Of course, the box office is getting better and better

, or the overall box office is good.

Everyone talks about this problem

because In my opinion,

I have never been able to enter this kind of discussion and respond

because it is a common sense issue.

It means that no matter how old we Chinese are,

we are better

than others in the past.

Now I am better. You see, my box office this year has surpassed that of the United States.

I think why do we always do this?

Plus, I hope it is a real market.

For example, we are actually doing this in movies now

, although it is said to be market-oriented.

But in fact, it is a very special kind of marketization.

It is not truly open

. It is not really done by the market to

overcome the disadvantages.

In fact, it is secretly

like a kind of plan and protection in the name of the market.

For example, does American film have a

certain quota

? If it feels that it wants to make Chinese films better

, then it will do that

and then suppress American films to some extent

, and then it will have winners and losers. I think

this film has a prosperous market, a

truly prosperous market. You have to rely on the market to get to

the real market.

Why are you comparing it?

For example, every year, domestic films overwhelm

Hollywood films. It seems that only Hollywood films are the only ones.

In fact, there are also French films. , Italian movies,

and movies from all countries should come in

and create a real one

, just like Korean movies.

Korean movies are actually like the current box office scene. In fact,

it is really the movie itself and the entire people are conscious.

I think it is worth watching. When people really get up

, we haven't reached this stage yet

because I don't think our market is really fair and open now.

Also, the movies with the best box office in China

are basically the ones with more hits, right?

Anyway, that's it. Anyway, in the past few years,

everyone has seen

this phenomenon

. It is very obvious that

subjective intervention wants to influence the direction of the film.

Fortunately, in the past few years, it has been through the 20-year-old

China After marketization,

many directors came into contact with a lot of this.

For example, Hollywood production

has a lot of high-tech methods.

When they went to Hollywood to learn

and introduce high-tech

, it was very technical. The technology is very developed

, the hardware is very good

, and many production staff , including directors and screenwriters,

have learned good skills.

In fact, this set is relatively complete.

Therefore, if the entire collective

wants to create a No matter what kind of subjective thing you want to create,

the technical techniques are very simple and familiar.

So now

many of the mission-oriented movies

actually want to make it good-looking

, so in the past few decades, technology has Its progress

in business has also helped it.

Then let’s talk about the history in the film.

In 2017, you said in a speech that

a country needs to face the past.

History does not end

. It does not end if you can’t see it.

But you As someone who owns a camera,

it is our responsibility to record history.

Why are you so obsessed with history?

In fact, I am not a fan of history from novels,

because when I was young, no one liked history.

I felt that the future was very exciting in the distance

and I didn’t want to think about the past.

But in fact, I gradually evolved into making these films.

I think they are related to my family.

I followed my mother to Guizhou

since I was a child.

During that period of history, my father was there and

my mother was there. In those years

, from youth to there and then to middle age,

many people can't live without

it. Then several generations

are equivalent to saying that our generation

and the generation below have the next generation

. For example, like me,

they were born there. If it were early, even the grandchildren would have it.

I think it touched me deeply,

so I went to Beijing to study,

from Central American Fucheng Middle School to the Film Academy.

In fact, my heart was attached to that place, that place

in Guizhou,

that place. You were at that time At that time, everyone

was generally blocked from information.

I didn’t know that there was such a group of people and such a group of things

. Of course, China at that time knew

about the Beidahuang Educated Youth Cultural Revolution

and so on.

There were many such things , but this was the only one that no one knew about.

I thought it was strange

that

it was completely ignored when I mentioned it

, so I always wanted to wait until I had the chance to

line up everything I had experienced and

everything I had seen

. So this is another time I ranked Qinghong later.

In fact, once you finish filming Qinghong,

you won’t be able to stop the car.

I

’m lining up again and I’m lining up desperately.

Anyway, there’s no market and no one is investing,

so I’m going to find a way to get rid of

this thing in my mind. It is necessary to preserve it and

let everyone know that there is such a group of people

, including intruders, who

will reflect and repent of their previous lives when they are old.

I think this is particularly important

, although sometimes the third-line employees may

see me making this movie.

Sometimes I’m not happy

and say that Chinese people like to talk about the past and it’s over.

What are you doing? Yes,

everyone

, look forward.

Look forward.

Yes, look forward.

So I said it’s right to look forward

at that time.

Don’t let it go. Consider traveling

light in the past

, but if you take two steps, you can’t throw away this thing

. The history you have experienced

or the good or bad

impact it has caused on society or people

will still be there.

So I feel that anyway, I am just

because of the filming. We didn’t stop after one shot,

so we shot three.

But we couldn’t make it.

It was too difficult

because after all, few people knew about it and

few cared about it. For example,

there is some distance between

the history in your movie

, which means that this movie

is History is often your background.

For example,

the Tiananmen Incident in "Duan Chun Day", the

Cultural Revolution in "My Eleventh

Day", the

"Planned Parenthood"

in "Laid Off to the Sea", these people

are all of them. It’s a background

, but it’s a somewhat distant background.

How do you understand it

? It means

the role that history plays in your films.

I increasingly find that it’s

a human being. Once his thinking or personality is finalized

and fixed to a certain level, it’s very difficult.

So I think where did the change

come from?

It must be from his educational background

and growth background,

and he has been fighting for it all the way.

People definitely don't jump out of the cracks of rocks

. It seems that this personality is formed without a past,

and it must be continued

like this , so I

What I think is important is

that when we see

the various phenomena

in China now , we are very anxious

and find them absurd and unbelievable.

So

how did all this come about? This

is

not the way Chinese people are born.

It has a history. The background of China has shaped

the current situation of China

. Because people often talk about China’s five thousand years of civilization

and its culture,

I don’t think we should talk about it for so long

. At least these decades, more than

seventy years, more than seventy years,

and more

than seventy years. This has shaped

the character and characteristics of the Chinese people

in one generation

or several generations,

including the shape of the country

and so on. I do

n’t think you can just say this

and let it go

. It won’t work

if you don’t think about it carefully.

If you don’t sort this out carefully,

I think it’s still not possible.

So although

this history is very short

, in fact, if you look at

it,

I will be considered a young man

from the time when I plan to complete my business.

I will also think about

how much I have seen China as a whole.

Ten years of changes

, then I have my opinions,

my attitude,

and my views.

I think that if you condense it,

it can be nothing more than a small period of our

experience

. It is so similar to me, Eleven, Qinghong,

we were all at that time.

The period I experienced when I was a child disappeared

later. Immediately,

that period of history disappeared

and was reorganized.

Then it was thrown

into the smoke city of history

. What should I do?

It’s because the people are too good

and the people are powerless

. We are unable to say what we want to strive for.

We have to look at

everything about

us again.

No one can say

it. Let’s summarize

how

you are now. It seems that you have made contributions

or grievances.

How can we have a good talk

?

So I think

the movie is a

movie camera

, which may be an eye

or a light magic tool

or a soft thing

to face them.

That is to say,

because of the development of many societies,

they can no longer see them

. You are struggling

and living by yourself,

and no one cares and sees

this camera. Get close to them,

get so close to them, care for them,

and say yes.

Look, there is at least one camera.

There is a man named Wang Ershuai who

has not forgotten all this.

Let's all take care of each other.

In fact, just keeping warm

can't change anything.

But this kind of care and concern

is

a combination of our care

for reality and the past . If we have more care,

we can discuss this matter more

, or we can benefit from

the slow social development.

If the rights and interests of individuals and families

can be more protected

or taken over a little bit

, then this is a function that culture and art

can tell that

can change a little bit.

I just think so

. Let's talk about the future

. Are you in the epidemic situation? During this period, I moved to Thailand

and even filmed a movie there

. Hotel.

After this Fertile Land went to Berlin to participate in the exhibition,

I just asked

you if you can still return to China to film.

What are your plans next?

This hotel is also special

because of the epidemic, and then we I was trapped there.

I was trapped

in Qingmai

for about half a year.

So at that time,

I thought it was quite fun to

make a movie like this. It

was not impossible. It was a

revelation. It was a revelation . So until now, this thing happened

, but this thing is not that it is. It was expected.

Since you said you did it, you had expected it,

but you didn't wait for the policy changes

or all the changes.

Then there was no way to create this situation.

But

for me,

it's not a reaction force.

Sometimes

Sometimes you have been pursuing

freedom in creation, and

you can create freely

, but

the external environment prevents you from doing this .

Just like a lot of times, lightning

often strikes us and we chat.

I want to shoot this. Can it pass

? Can you pass it

? Every idea that has stopped blocking you

every moment

is very painful.

Originally, creation is a process of freedom,

a process of free expression of

your thoughts and thoughts.

As a result, every time you come up with an idea,

you get stuck or get stuck by others.

I think it’s quite painful to be

stuck . So no matter what the situation is,

if

you are passive,

active, or

forced, it

is not impossible

for you to pursue the freedom you think.

In fact, in the entire world, your communication when watching

movies is

becoming more and more international

. In

the past, French movies

and Italian movies were often co-produced by many

countries.

This is also a trend that we

have to face in the future

, because it is difficult for a single country to undertake a movie.

They all

need everyone. Only by combining resources

can we protect and produce such films.

It does not mean

that he has to challenge the market

to meet the market. The market

is getting worse and worse

. Do you think there

will be more and more cooperation with each other

? If this part of our Chinese films

is to If you want to go out,

you have to face this.

Several Chinese and Hong Kong films

at the Berlin Film Festival

are co-produced in several places,

so it is very likely that this film trend will be in the future.

You are a Chinese director

with a Chinese face

, but you can make

whatever you want. You only need to be talented

when shooting

, so I think if you can be active and passive,

I think it will be the fastest

if you can experience

the freedom of making movies.

And I also think

that AI has come in again.

Artificial intelligence has come in again

, and all the technologies

at that time were When the film age ended and

the digital age came in,

it has liberated a lot.

That is to say, you can take a digital camera

or even an iPhone or anything.

You can take

moving images

. You can't stop this trend

and the changes in vision.

Nowadays, AI and even plain-screen short dramas

, so how do you face this new change? You

can’t go back to 30 years ago

and stand alone.

I still have to be like that.

I still have to jam your thoughts

and your behavior of making movies.

You are not allowed to do this. You are not allowed to do this. That

would be unrealistic.

If we adjust early to

be more tolerant and more confident,

on the one hand it will be good for creation,

on the other hand it will allow for

vigorous creation.

On the other hand, it will truly integrate

Chinese films into the world

. At that time, if we look at anything else,

for example, we surpass Hollywood. If you

watch

Piaolang

or something like that,

I think it will be real and

unstoppable.

If you try to block it,

I think you will fall further and

further behind .

Movies require the cooperation of many people

, and they require a lot of funding and market

If you stay outside,

how do you think about these issues?

Now this is actually quite challenging.

First of all, I

am not saying that I am 100% determined to stay outside,

because

everything seems to be impermanent.

I

just said if

Whether it is active or passive, if

there is a free choice,

I hope for both sides.

That is to say, I still hope

that I can return to China normally,

return to Beijing

, and still work in China

, because a director

can only be nourished by his own culture

in his own country. Only then

will he be able to make

a movie that is closer to the local atmosphere

. Of course, this is what I hope for most.

If it doesn't work in some circumstances,

then I have to face new challenges

. If I can still do it

without returning,

It doesn’t matter how many years you have been

making movies in China

, then I

’m going to have a new challenge

here. I’m going to find a way to see if I

can make movies that I think can be made

in such a passive situation

, because it’s true that now Chinese people Everything he saw outside

, everything he experienced

, even pure English movies,

in fact,

if he reaches this time,

why not give

it a try

? But you still want to

go back to China if possible

, but

now the freedom of creation

is getting less and less.

You can accept it. Whatever you do next,

it is unlikely that it will be released in China.

If you are really

who you are, you are a director who has been pursuing your own path

and following your own heart. You

are an auteur director

. You cannot go

through all kinds of censorship

and then film you. If you don't want to make something,

you are

a director who

is very aware of this problem. If you go back,

what kind of film will you make?

What kind of film can you make?

In China,

for example, we make some

films that are made by many directors

who have their own real emotional experience.

It's about life,

and I think there's still a lot of space,

because

for example, after I finish this,

I don't necessarily have to

focus on this theme again, because after

finishing the third-line filming of

the Blue and Red Trilogy,

I don't have the energy to do it again,

because It’s too tiring, right? Well

, I will also

have a new creative direction

. This creative direction may be

pure family love,

pure emotion, pure self

. In the current reality

in China ,

how to survive

, how to travel, etc.

, these are

all When I talk about these things, I think

it’s impossible not to do this even when

I review it

. So as long as

I can go

back, that’s how it is now.

I have to say something else.

Now, even if the economy is not good, it won’t work.

Even economists can’t say that the economy is not good

. If you want to reflect

the current social situation

, for example, yes,

you can’t even lose your job. You ca

n’t say whether

the economy is in recession. You can’t say that

my house can’t be sold

. You can’t say

too many taboos.

We reporters

all Tell me

that you just can't write a manuscript

, so don't talk about a movie. It's a

bigger creation like this

. Now that you are talking about this, you

are really stuck.

It's because you can't be emotional,

because now movies don't talk about

whether you can say anything.

The biggest issue

to discuss now

is to touch on emotional issues.

If you are not emotionally high

and are not positive, you

will have problems. So it

does not come from any

line or subject matter

, so this In

fact, I think everyone really needs to work hard

, that is, dare to touch it

, but there is a market problem

. People think that

things that are relatively gloomy do not sell for money

. It is a multi-faceted and mutual paradox

, which means that it turns out to be ideological. I

don’t want you to be gloomy.

Now it’s become a market.

It doesn’t require you to be gloomy

and inspirational.

It has to have something more positive,

so it’s sandwiched between you

. Of course, I said that movies don’t necessarily have to express emotions,

express low emotions, or

not.

But it’s

up to each director to decide

what he does.

So what you just said is right,

that is to say, once you go back and touch it,

even if it’s insensitive

but it’s dark, it won’t work.

This is a very, very unsolvable problem,

just like back then

. Like I said just now,

he said your simple point of view, I saw it.

I cut to this paragraph,

I cut to that line

, but it

still doesn’t work. The whole thing is still gray.

I can’t change it, and it doesn’t work anymore,

because the whole thing is what he thinks is gray

and gray. Well,

I'm speechless.

Let

me ask you one last question. What

Deutsche Welle mentioned in the interview with you was the

question a Chinese audience asked you

at the Berlin Film Festival.

He said that the chip was sent without being reviewed.

Will Berlin

be banned in China? The disease

has caused the chip to miss the Chinese audience.

Your answer won a round of applause from the audience

. You said this is like falling in love.

If one person desperately wants to love the other person,

the other person does not love you.

This sentence is useless.

In fact, it reminds me of a sentence in the 1981

story

"You love this country,

but does this country love you?"

I want to ask, is your relationship with this country

an unreciprocated love relationship?

In fact, we follow the stages.

I said that in the 1980s,

1990s, and the early 2000s,

it was really one.

Although it seems that the essence has not changed now

, in fact, the overall mood is at least high-spirited.

At this time, it seems that you have not discovered it yet.

Does he love you?

At least the two

of them can go on dates and hang out with each other.

Is it a two-way street

or a little bit of a two-way street?

That is no longer

the case now, but it is a little bit like that now

. That is to say, after so many years. After

so many years,

for us creators,

it is still like a heart that is in love

and wants to stay. We do

n’t want to lose the passion until that time.

We don’t want to lose everything that was vigorous and upward at that time. We

still want to push forward

, but it seems that

the situation seems to

be time. Times have changed

, so

what should I do?

It's like saying that if you are still that enthusiastic

and they do n't want

you anymore,

or they don't even answer your phone calls,

then how can this relationship continue?

Then it's best

to just be yourself

and live your own life. Just

be yourself

, because you are in this profession.

Your abilities are still there

, your energy is still there,

your ideas are still there, and

your eyes are still there .

In fact, the current technology

that you can touch

is still there. Helping you

can simplify the presentation of your idea.

So why not?

Why are you trapped?

In other words, maybe on the contrary,

you are heading for a freer world.

I feel that you are still young

and young.

It is great. It feels so

good to listen to it. Well

, we asked each guest to recommend three books

or films.

We have never had a film director on the podcast.

What do you recommend?

I want to

make a film, so I won’t recommend it

. I won’t recommend it

. I have recommended

so many excellent movies

, not just one or two.

If I look at the books,

I would say two

are non-fiction

and have had a big impact on me recently.

One of them is Raymond Aron's "The Intellectual's

Opium Condemned".

I'm sorry for the opium of intellectuals.

Raymond Aron, a French philosopher

, spent decades in his life.

In fact, he was quite lonely,

but he has always been

very lonely.

He did a relatively conservative

philosophy in France, which is very left-wing.

My family is very lonely

. There

is another one.

Why do you recommend him? Why do you like him

? Do you think you see your own shadow?

How

do you persist

in this kind of thing

? A little bit .

In addition, through people like them, we realize that

we are actually For many years

we have not been able to see this side.

We have been on the left

and have seen

more of

Sartre’s existentialism.

So I think this device really

only has time

for your own growth. The time is long enough

for you to slowly grow. Slowly recognize

the other side of things. In

this way, you can have a more comprehensive understanding

of the world or its changes

and your own self-reliance.

Another one is the

book Keynes vs. Hayek

, which

is equivalent to combining

Keynes and Hayek. Putting these two together, Yeck, has been

a struggle

for decades.

Until now, although it is

impossible to draw a conclusion about

who is who on the battlefield

and who is not good

, but you will have a judgment

, and you will see the world

through this kind of

seeing in the future. The real changes

you experience are

what you read in the books

and then you form

your attitude

and your basic direction

and values.

This also has a great impact.

This is also something that

we were not exposed to in our

early years when we were studying.

On the other hand ,

there was no translation at that time

. There is

also a novel

about Yefu

, Yefu’s national certificate.

I especially hope that

more people can see it as soon as possible. He

will also have a national certificate,

right?

He seems to It has not been officially published

, but it has been published in limited print copies.

You can see it everywhere.

It’s great.

It may be sold in non-local bookstores in Chiang Mai.

I’ll advertise it.

I just wrote about it.

There are many others. I

won’t come. You can’t come

. Okay,

thank

you, Director Wang

, and thank you all for listening.

See you next time.