Seth Godin — Lancio di servizi di nuova generazione
Summary
TLDRIn this engaging talk, Seth Godin emphasizes the power of true storytelling in marketing, arguing against transactional approaches for a more human-centered strategy. He advocates for identifying and serving a specific tribe, making genuine connections, and creating horizontal word spread. Godin also addresses the misuse of metrics, the importance of customer selection, and the challenges of enacting change within conservative industries like agriculture, all while encouraging a shift towards meaningful, sustainable marketing practices.
Takeaways
- 📚 Seth Godin is a renowned American author, entrepreneur, and marketing expert, celebrated for his influential books on marketing and leadership.
- 💡 Godin emphasizes the importance of storytelling in marketing, arguing that true stories that spread horizontally are the foundation of effective marketing.
- 🚀 To make a change happen through marketing, one must identify the specific change desired and the story that resonates with the target audience.
- 🎯 Positioning is not about differentiating yourself from competitors, but rather about finding a generous place in the market where you can meet the needs of a specific group.
- 🌟 Godin advocates for focusing on serving the smallest viable audience that genuinely cares about the change you're offering, rather than trying to appeal to everyone.
- 🔄 Change in organizations often starts at the edges and requires architects who understand systems and can create conditions for people to achieve their desired outcomes.
- 🤖 AI and other tools can greatly enhance marketing efforts when used effectively, but it's crucial to be proficient in their use to avoid being used by them.
- 💼 Godin advises against relying on false proxies for success, such as massive numbers that don't equate to meaningful results, and instead focuses on accurate measures that reflect the true goals.
- 🌱 In conservative industries like agriculture, change can be spread by fostering communication among practitioners and demonstrating the benefits of new methods.
- 🔗 Authenticity in marketing is less important than consistency; what matters is that promises are kept, regardless of whether the care is genuine or strategic.
- 🎙️ Godin encourages marketers to be conversants rather than just speakers, engaging in dialogue and addressing the challenges and needs of their audience.
Q & A
What is Seth Godin known for?
-Seth Godin is a renowned American author, entrepreneur, and marketing guru, best known for his pioneering work in the field of marketing and his powerful insights in business and leadership.
What are some influential books written by Seth Godin?
-Some influential books by Seth Godin include 'Permission Marketing', 'Changing Strangers into Friends', and 'Friends into Customers'. His book 'Purple Cow' is also notable for its ideas on making a business remarkable.
What is the main focus of Seth Godin's talk?
-The main focus of Seth Godin's talk is about making a change happen. He emphasizes the importance of creating stories that resonate with people and understanding the system within which change is to occur.
How does Seth Godin view marketing?
-Seth Godin views marketing not as advertising but as a means to make a change. He believes that marketing should be about creating conditions for people to come together and spread true stories that hold up to scrutiny.
What is the concept of 'tribes' as discussed by Seth Godin?
-The concept of 'tribes' as discussed by Seth Godin refers to groups of people who share common interests or goals. He suggests that for change to happen, one should identify and serve these tribes by addressing their fears and dreams, and helping them achieve their desired change.
What does Seth Godin suggest about the use of AI in marketing?
-Seth Godin suggests that AI is a powerful tool in marketing and that professionals should become proficient in using it. He believes that embracing AI can significantly improve efficiency and output in marketing tasks.
How does Seth Godin approach the idea of positioning a product?
-Seth Godin approaches product positioning as a generous act where the focus is on finding a place in the market where competitors are not. He uses a grid system to identify quadrants and suggests that the best position is where there is an opportunity without direct competition.
What is the significance of the 'chasm' concept by Jeff Moore as mentioned by Seth Godin?
-The 'chasm' concept by Jeff Moore, as mentioned by Seth Godin, signifies that change often starts at the edges of a market or community and then spreads to the middle. It emphasizes the importance of focusing on the periphery to initiate change rather than trying to convince the masses directly.
How does Seth Godin suggest identifying the right proxies for measuring success in marketing?
-Seth Godin suggests having a conversation about what success truly means for the organization and identifying the most accurate proxies that align with those goals. He advises against using false proxies that may seem easy to measure but do not reflect the actual desired outcomes.
What advice does Seth Godin give for creating a genuine connection with customers?
-Seth Godin advises focusing on being consistent and keeping promises. He believes that consistency in delivering what is promised is more important than whether someone genuinely cares or is simply following a good marketing strategy.
Outlines
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Mindmap
Keywords
💡Marketing
💡Leadership
💡Innovation
💡Authenticity
💡Change
💡Storytelling
💡Customer Service
💡Positioning
💡Systems
💡Brand Awareness
Highlights
Seth Godin, a renowned American author, entrepreneur, and marketing guru, emphasizes the importance of making a change and the role of marketing in facilitating that change.
Godin's work is传奇般地以商业和领导力的深刻洞察而著称,他的书籍如《许可营销》和《紫牛》等对商业世界产生了巨大影响。
Godin提倡的营销理念不仅仅是交易性的,而是关于分享和慷慨精神,他认为如果我们都分享某样东西,我们都会拥有它,而且会更多。
Godin认为,真正的营销是建立在真实故事的传播上的,这些故事能够经得起审查,而虚假的东西最终会站不住脚。
故事是人类基本的元素技术,它们不需要文字,可以是一个气味、一个记忆,或者是你的着装方式。故事是情感的载体,而价格也是一种故事。
Godin提出,营销人员应该专注于为特定人群服务,而不是试图影响每一个人。找到最小的可行受众,那些真正关心你工作的人,他们会倾听、参与并传播你的故事。
Godin讨论了定位的概念,强调定位不是你对顾客所做的事情,而是你为他们做的一件慷慨的行为。
Godin认为,成功的营销不是通过大规模的广告或推广,而是通过创造条件让人们聚集在一起,从而有意地传播想法。
他提出了“部落”概念,指出人类历史上一直在部落中组织生活,而今天的消费者和市场也形成了现代意义上的“部落”。
Godin强调,营销人员应该服务于现有的部落,而不是试图改变它们。理解部落的恐惧和梦想,并帮助他们实现这些梦想,是建立信任和影响的关键。
Godin讨论了系统的概念,指出系统是围绕维持现状而建立的,而改变往往发生在系统的边缘。
他提出了有意识的设计概念,即在开始营销活动之前,要明确你为谁服务以及你想要实现的具体变化。
Godin认为,营销人员应该避免使用虚假代理来衡量成功,而应该找到真正反映目标成就的准确代理。
他提到了AI的魔力,并分享了他如何使用AI来提高工作效率,同时强调了掌握这些工具的重要性。
Godin以Volvo的Super Bowl广告活动为例,说明了如何在不直接参与大型广告活动的情况下,通过社交媒体创造性地吸引注意力。
他强调了在营销中保持一致性的重要性,认为一致性比真实性更重要,因为人们更看重品牌或个人的可靠性。
Godin讨论了如何在农业等保守行业中传播变革,强调了通过建立社区和同行之间的交流来促进创新的重要性。
他提出了关于如何识别一个人是否真正关心一个问题的观点,认为一致性和承诺比表面上的关心更为重要。
Transcripts
now it gives me incredible great
pleasure to introduce our next speaker
this afternoon Mr Seth Goden he hardly
needs an introduction he is a renowned
American Author a do entrepreneur and
marketing Guru he is perhaps best known
for his pioneering work in the field of
marketing and recognized for his
powerful insights in business and
Leadership his writing is legendary
having produced many influential books
with such great names like permission
marketing changing strangers into
friends and Friends into customers as
well as Purple Cow transform your
business by being remarkable to name but
just a few he has had business week and
New York Times bestseller as well as
business week naming his book Lynch ping
among its 20 best books by the most
influential thinkers in business what I
particularly love in Seth godden's
writing is that he Advocates a great
generosity of spirit like an art of
gifting that if we share something we
both have it and there is more to doing
business than just being transactional
Seth Gorden is also a popular blogger do
check out his seth. blog for a daily
dosage of piy wisdom and commentary
today in fact I discovered Seth's answer
to the ageold riddle what's came first
the chicken or the egg do go and check
it out it's an interesting answer um and
by the way Seth's blog on April 7th 2021
I believe should give you a definitive
list of kits you need to remote video
meetings to make them look as good as
Seth's I don't know if that's still
correct uh but certainly last time we
did have a lot of interest in your
technical setup um Seth Gorden is a sort
after speaker and today we are very
privileged indeed to have him here with
us I am greatly looking forward to your
talk sir you asked how many people are
uh listening I believe well over 500 um
so Seth Goden sir a huge welcome and
over to
you thank you Michael it's great to see
you again and Alex I just did I only got
to hear a little bit of your music but
thank you for sharing it I'm thrilled
that everybody's here many of you were
here for our last session if you weren't
I hope you got to see the recording I'm
going to repeat very little of that in
my Prelude the main reason I came is not
to be a speaker but to be a conversant
because guess what you can watch me on
YouTube all day long you could have a
whole channel of just me the whole
beauty of this format is that you're
going to get to ask your questions in
the chat that I'm going to talk for as
little as I can get away with because
it's the conversation it's your case
study it's your challenge it's what
you're dealing with that is why we are
here and I'm going to also begin by
apologizing to the translators because
I'm already talking too fast but I'll do
my best to slow down a little bit
so as Michael said I have been
privileged to write a whole bunch of
books and if you look at these books
what you will see is that they have
something in common and what we're here
to talk about are the next steps the
next steps for you in your journey to
make a change because that is what the
books have in common they are about
making a change happen that we get
really hung up on this word marketing
and you know I sort of reinvented what
it meant because I don't think marketing
is advertising I think that we are here
to make a change and if you can be
specific that change might be very
little I need to get this person to buy
my item or it could be very big I need
to change the
culture and you the people who are on
this call from all over the world you're
here on your own time because you want
to make a change
happen I'm going to start with this
making a change happen is built the way
marketing is built on true stories that
spread so we should break down those
pieces true because it will hold up to
scrutiny the fact is it's easy to lie on
the Internet it's easy to scam and hype
and hustle but it doesn't hold up the
people who were busy scamming four years
ago where are they now the folks that
were building Ponzi schemes on top of
nfts where are they now that we can go
down a long list of how easy it is to
start with something that doesn't hold
water but what we find is that the truth
catches up and what's a story well we're
going to decode that a whole bunch in
the next few minutes and what does it
mean for it to spread what it means for
it to spread is that you are not the one
who's going to quote get the word out it
is not your job to interrupt me it is
your job to create a story that I will
tell my friends about because that is
how the word spreads it spreads
horizontally so when we open this up to
Q&A when we start talking in the chat
begin with this what exactly is the
change you seek to make and then second
where is the story the story that
resonates with people because stories
are the basic Elemental human technology
before there was anything else the thing
that made us human stories dogs don't
have stories chimps don't have stories
people have stories a story doesn't have
to have words in it it can be a smell it
can be a memory a story can be the way
you dress the genre you choose but a
story is
emotional and guess what
your price is a story price is not
just a transaction price is am I the
kind of person that wants to buy a
luxury good am I the kind of person that
wants to find a bargain there is around
the
world a chain of Ralph Lauren clothing
thrift stores these outlet stores not
thrift stores outlet stores around the
world sell Ralph Lauren stuff and the
story is simple you're getting a
discount because this is stuff that
slightly defective slightly out of date
couldn't be sold in our high price
stores where people don't realize is one
the stuff in their outlet stores
generates more than half their revenue
and
two they make it in a different Factory
for a different audience it never had a
chance of going to their other stores
that's a story is it true yeah it's true
in the sense that this isn't at our
fancy store and it's true that it's
cheaper but the story you're telling
yourself is you're the smart kind of
person that isn't going to need to pay
extra at the fancy
store but where all this comes
together is to realize and marketers
including me have problems with this all
the time is that you are not the point
you are not what your marketing is here
about marketing is about the person we
are talking to it is about the change we
are offering them if it's about you if
you are busy talking about yourself
without regard for the person you are
working with interacting with helping
changing we're just going to walk away
because we have other things to do so
this is something I talked about a bunch
last time this is your biggest problem
your biggest problem is you're busy
working for someone or with people who
think that this is a worthwhile slogan
that SEO matters because if you type in
locksmith you can pick any locksmith but
here I am I'm the first one if you're
making average stuff for average
people you're in a race to the
bottom and the problem with the race to
the bottom is you might win or Worse
come in second and if you win the race
to the bottom you have to stay there I
am proposing a race to the top to build
an idea that
spreads to do that on purpose to
intentionally create the
conditions for people to come together
and that means that we have to see
systems so systems confuse a lot of
people and I think it's worth a couple
minutes to break this
down no matter where in the world you
are if you look up in the sky tonight
you will see stars and planets the solar
system is what we call the thing with
our sun and all the planets around it
now the thing
is Mars and Jupiter rotate around the
sun not because they want to
but because they are part of a system
that sometimes an asteroid races through
our solar system and then leaves and
other times it gets caught up in the
gravitation and it stays and becomes
part of the solar system well we are
surrounded by systems and we don't have
to want to be in them to be in them
there is the giant geopolitical systems
of country versus country and then there
are the tiny systems of your family and
who always sits at the head of the table
and who does the grocery shopping there
are systems expectations the way it is
in the classroom the system of why does
someone need to get a degree if they're
already smart about doing things systems
reinforce the status quo systems fight
change when a new uh Interstellar body
enters our solar system the Earth
doesn't go off its accd
because it is resilient systems that
aren't stable are gone the systems that
stick around are fighting the change and
if you're in the business of making a
change happen you need to see where is
the system that exists that doesn't want
that change to
happen so we need intentional design
intentional design says if I'm a
marketer here to make change happen I
need to answer answer two questions
before I begin who is this for who
exactly am I seeking to change can you
name them are there aund a thousand a
million of these people and the second
is what's it for what is the change I am
here to make specifically how will I
know if I achieved it and when you put
those two things
together you're able to find the
smallest viable audience it's not the
biggest possible audience that's greedy
and it's not going to work everyone who
has ever made a change happen whether
it's a vast billion person change like
what the Mahatma did in India or a tiny
change like what that one person did at
that little shop for 30 people in the
town always begins with the smallest
bable audience not everyone but someone
work that
matters for people who care people who
care are enrolled in the journey people
who care show up people who care are
listening people who care spread the
word if the work matters so I'm hoping
that in just 10 minutes of ranting I'm
already beginning to get under your skin
because maybe you're busy selling
average stuff to average people and
you're wondering why you can't hustle it
harder and if you were listening I I
think you understand why now so what to
do about this well I wrote a book called
tribes and the argument in tribes is
that for 10,000 years human beings have
been organized in villages groups of 150
or so people who know you people who
would miss you if you were gone People
Like Us do things like this creators of
culture being in a tribe is a v untary
act I choose to have an Android phone
not an iPhone I choose to eat this diet
not that diet I choose to go to this gym
or watch that TV show not this one
because my people are there the thing is
you are unlikely to have your own tribe
I don't have a tribe but you might be
able to narrate connect with lead a
tribe that already
exists so in my country we have
volunteer fire departments someone
volunteers to spend a lot of their time
in the local Community Helping create
safety well if you build a business that
helps volunteer fire departments do
their jobs better you will be narrating
for that tribe you will have found a
group that wants to be more connected
more powerful to have a change happen
so what we're looking for as we seek
tribes to serve not to do something to
but to serve are what are their fears
what are their dreams because if you can
help somebody with their
fear they will come to you if you could
help them achieve their dreams they will
come to you that what it means to do
this s sort of intentional design is to
be of service to make a change happen on
behalf of this group of people people
who are self-interested self-interested
does not mean selfish self-interested
means I have to tell my boss something I
have to tell my partner something I have
to tell my spouse something what will I
tell them about why I changed what will
I tell them about what I did if you can
help me answer that question I'm more
likely to say yes and if you can't I'm
much more likely to say
no okay so tomorrow in the United States
is a ridiculous day uh some people call
it the Super Bowl I prefer to call it
the superb owl I have a blog post about
this tomorrow the problem with the Super
Bowl besides all the head injuries and
the misogyny and the classism and
everything else is it's about Mass 40
years ago on the Super Bowl
Jay shyatt and Lee CLA ran the famous
1984 Apple commercial that was the first
Super Bowl ad I mean there were Super
Bowls before that there were ads before
that but that was the one and ever since
then marketers have been paying a
premium a huge premium to run their ads
on the Super Bowl to reach the maximum
number of
people this is
ridiculous because they are paying extra
to reach people who aren't interested in
what they have to sell they would be
much better off buying 10 much smaller
ads in 10 very specific places to reach
the people who want to hear from them to
find the tribes that are seeking the
change they are there to offer but we
are seduced particularly in my country
by shortcuts easy things by getting the
word out by loudness by mass but Mass
means average and if you're making
average stuff for average people it's
going to be a struggle for you for a
long time so this is the most advanced
part of what I want to talk about today
and then I'm going to pause and
hopefully Michael has been collecting
questions and we're GNA shift to going
through your cases so you can ask your
questions as generously as you can in
the chat
meaning even if someone didn't have the
problem you have is it a question other
people want to have answered because if
we can turn these into interesting case
that's useful okay so I got a few more
minutes to go so here we go there are a
lot of cars around the world there are a
lot of cars to choose from what do you
do if you're a car maker and what I want
to talk about with just a few slides is
the idea that positioning from trout and
Reese positioning is not something you
do to your customers something you do
for them it is a generous act right that
what we're looking for is someone not
everyone so the way I do this this
positioning thing is I start with an XY
grid this is the hardest
part on the XY grid you need two axes
and the top and bottom left and right of
each axis has to be a good thing so
you're not allowed to have excellent and
lousy you're not allowed to have
overpriced good good value because no
one wants to pick overpriced you have to
pick things where some people might want
that and some people might want the
other one so in this case for four car
brands what I've done is I've picked
luxury versus value lots of people want
value lots of people want luxury agility
nimbleness and power you could see how
someone would want either of those so
now if I'm a car maker what I get to do
is decide where my next model is going
to fit which
quadrant do I live in and the magic of
this is if I can find a
quadrant that doesn't have anything in
it that
spot that
position that is a good place to be so
what we try to do is find axes where our
competitors are all in one or two
quadrants and where there are other
quadrants where there is an opportunity
and the reason that this is a generous
Act is that it lets us treat people
different people differently it lets us
say to
someone sorry did I just get muted one
second am I muted can someone just tell
me if I because I saw something flash by
that made me
confused if you could just put into the
chat or Michael just pop back on because
I don't want to
be ranting here for no good
reason we can hear you I'm okay yeah
everything good great I I will I will
ignore the warning I just saw thank you
okay sorry so if someone comes to me and
I'm a Porsche dealer and they walk in
and they say hi I'm looking for a a high
value car that I can take to the train
main station we don't try to per
persuade you to buy a a tan we don't try
to persuade you to upgrade to a Porche
911 we say oh my friend is at the hondai
dealer down the street tell them I sent
you that if you are not regularly
sending people to folks that might be
considered your competition you're not
serious about having a position so if
someone shows up and asks me to do X Y
or Z that other people do better than me
I say here this call this person call
this person call that person that's not
what I do I do
this and this choice of treating
different people differently of showing
up for the people who want us frees up
everything okay so the next topic which
is unrelated but comes up a
lot AI is here AI is Magic uh there's a
an AI I use first I got to say if you
ever see anything written by me a blog
post or a book I wrote every word of it
I have no team and I'm not using AI to
do my writing that's my choice there's
nothing wrong with using AI but that's
my choice but I use AI every day so
today I gave AI three paragraphs and I
said please write this into a formal
exciting well-formatted press release
and
Claude came back with a great press
release one that it would have taken me
a very long time to write something
better than that and so what I'm arguing
here is that you're either going to get
good at using these tools or they're
going to use you that you probably
should be spending 30 minutes a day on
chat GPT and Claude becoming the best
person at using it on your team because
it's happening it's real and we can't
deny that this is what's right in front
of us so as I wrap this up I want to
just do a recap of something that I
showed you last
time this Chasm from Jeff Moore is
something that people miss all the time
if you are going to cause change to
happen you're going to cause it around
the edges the
edges is where change Always occurs and
then after the edges
change the word can spread it can spread
to the middle not because you spread it
not because you bought a superb owl ad
not because you hustled somebody or
tried to figure out how to get mentioned
on some blog post you don't belong on no
you can make it spread because other
people are going to spread the word so
the argument I've been trying to make
and I hope it's resonating with you is
you are Architects you are architext of
systems within systems you are here to
make a change happen to create the
conditions for people to get to where
they are going because it is much easier
to help someone get to where they're
going than to persuade them to go where
you want them to so that's my rant 21
minutes I hope it changed something for
you and now my favorite part I hope
yours too we're going to do Q&A Michael
what do you got for
me hang
on
uh Seth that was excellent yes we have
lots of questions I love your your final
thought where the architects of change
uh get people to go along with you
rather than uh twist their arm uh
together it's a great thought um and I I
I sort of agree with you on the Super
Bowl it's just one of those weird things
that seems like something that's left
over from the past uh always intrigues
me you you there's a great campaign for
Volvo I never I don't know if you came
across it when all the big car they
weren't advertising there when all the
big cars were advertising um all they
wanted you to do was tweet Volvo so when
you saw Mercedes or Chevrolet on a big
ad for the Super Bowl you had to just
tweet uh Volvo and there was some sort
of prize you could actually give a Volvo
to a friend and it was a genius idea
every time all the big cars came on the
Super Bowl suddenly the Twitter sphere
exploded with um uh with with
Volvo it's a great anti sort of anti
super idea but anyway enough for me lots
of great questions um here and do keep
them coming um so uh krishnam asks uh
there are so many stories out there uh
on social media how do we know if a
story is true um and genuine um and how
can we identify
that okay so let's use the words very
carefully and I only speak one language
so that's why I can focus on the words
in my language there is a lot of there
are a lot of words and pictures on
social media but that doesn't mean that
they are
stories a story only becomes a story
once I internalize it so if someone
writes something in fary it's not a
story to me it's just characters on the
screen when I internalize the story if
it causes an emotional change in me I
want to call that a story so you know a
fable uh a boy cried wolf in the
villagers didn't come that's a story but
you know what else is a
story the way a certain kind of pie
baking reminds me of my mom that's a
story because it's a connection to where
we are who we are where we're going so
you are asking a question about the
things we see online almost none of them
are true in the sense that they are
reality because everything
is condensed everything is a model for
reality the map is not the territory so
when someone shows up and says something
or even shows us something without
context we can't take it at face value
we have to decide who we're going to
trust where does trust come from a lot
of people have been manipulated
particularly in the last 10 years by
evil forces online who are getting them
to do bad things for their health or for
politics or for their Community they're
manipulated we're trusting the wrong
people and just because someone has a
microphone doesn't mean they have
authority just because they're right in
front of us online including me doesn't
mean we should listen everything they
said we have to figure out does it work
does it hold water is it logical does it
fit
in to our worldview or is it worth US
changing our worldview right
and one way to deal with it is to
consume far less social media to make
the circle that you are trusting a bit
smaller to figure out how to hold new
ideas responsible for whether or not
they work not to justify their failure
over and over and over again so yeah
people who buy $150,000 car that breaks
down find some way to justify that it
wasn't the car's fault because cognitive
dissonance is real all of which is a way
of
saying real
marketing takes a while showing up and
showing up and showing up I'm 9,000 blog
posts in I would like to believe that if
I write a blog post tomorrow that maybe
is a little sketchy for you you will
think twice before you ignore it because
I've earned the benefit of the doubt and
the benefit of the doubt is what we seek
the benefit of the doubt is where trust
lies the benefit of the doubt is I will
try that story on and see if it
fits
great that that that is great and and
certainly your blog is amazing I was
actually looking at it and literally
every day as you say you show up you
show up show up with with something to
think about and reflect on and stuff
that pings uh out uh and gives you
reasons I reflect um Margarita asks how
would you change the culture of a
20-year-old company that thinks first of
products and leads and little about
investment in brand awareness and brand
recognition I love this question
Margarita thank you your company is a
system every single person who works
there works with other people and the
system has gotten it through 20 hard
years to where it is so when someone has
a choice about how to spend the next few
hours or a choice about what to talk to
their boss about or Choice blah blah
blah blah blah they say to themselves if
I can bring prospects and leads a new
business I'm gonna get a smile and maybe
a promotion on the other hand when
they're making a choice in the system
they are in about making an investment
they're thinking about how many steps
they're going to have to go through to
get to the next level so how do we
change a system well there are a few
things to think about the first one the
biggest one is this you're allowed to
leave that there is nothing about any
given institution that
guarantees it has the right to make you
stay so when people who are seeking
growth leave an
institution one of two things happens
either the institution Withers and Fades
away or it changes because you took an
action and they had a respond but if you
want to stay it seems to me that asking
for the
authority to do these big things that
you know are right lets you off the hook
because if you ask for Authority then
someone else is taking responsibility
for approving your plan and in my
experience of working with organizations
that's not really how change in systems
happen it happens when you find the
smallest tiniest Innovation that you can
take responsibility for without any
Authority do it
and then give your boss credit because
then she'll ask you to do it again and
again and again so it can be making a
tiny investment in customer service a
tiny investment in some sort of new
innovation the point is the posture if
it doesn't work take the blame they're
not going to fire you if it does work
give away the credit and you'll get to
do it again and then we begin to cycle
and change and cycle it's worth noting
that Nintendo used to make playing cards
and it's also worth noting that Western
Union was so in love with making the
telegraph their system was
so built around telegrams that they had
the chance to buy the entire phone
system of the world and they didn't do
it because they said we're not in the
Communication business we're in the
telegram business so it's easy to get
stuck but it's also easy as we see from
Nintendo if you are willing to increment
to get
unstuck uh Nintendo with playing game
with playing cards that's a fantastic uh
example ranging that's a Toyota we do
some work with Toyota they talk about
themselves being a Mobility company not
a car company which is kind of changes
the conversation completely very
interesting um we are lots lots of good
questions and try my best everyone to
get get through them all they are great
um and keep them coming um uh gno asks
and actually it's it's an interesting
question this and it's something I've
come across uh at work how do I get the
story out of Engineers who think that
the amazing things that they do are kind
of just normal and a bit kind of
uninteresting it's it's such a real
insight that I often you talk to people
and it's like you do something really
incredible and they're like well it's
just boring so how how can you work
around that or help with this yeah so
let's talk about self- and systems again
um
Engineers have a different scorecard for
what a good day at work looks like they
have a good a different scorecard for
what a successful product might look
like that if we talk about what the
original Mac team thought of as
breakthroughs one of the things was when
you move a window from one part of the
screen to the other they had to figure
out how to make that possible because
there's they didn't want to recompute
everything under the window every time
they moved it because it wouldn't work
that was a home run from an engineering
point of view and Steve Jobs's
contribution was to not tell anybody in
the public about that because didn't
match our story of what we needed right
and instead there's a pirate flag
hanging over their office and the inside
of the original Mac was signed by the
first 30 people because it was this
heroic effort that's not what the
engineers signed up for but it's what
the public heard about so what we do as
marketers is we have to work to
decode one person's self-interest and
turn it into a useful story for somebody
else and what I have found is that when
we sit with an engineer and say show me
the hard parts of what made this work
show me compared to what you're
replacing why the thing you did that was
so hard was worth doing talk to me about
which parts of this you are proud of
what you will hear is in their
self-interest their story of their Quest
and then your job is to reconfigure it
into how does this help someone who
doesn't have this thing yet and it's
that shift treating different people
differently that's hard because it takes
empathy great empathy is great final
thought such an important thing um loads
of ining wish we had all night but
unfortunately we don't we just have to
do the best the best we can uh a
question from Marius um who says how can
we become relevant in our companies in
the challenging times uh we live
in
challenging times is where change happen
right
and there's always going to be customers
or there is no company who's talking to
the customers who has insight into where
the customers are uh a colleague of mine
worked at a software company and if you
talked to their existing customers you
would make a top- down complete
bureaucratic administrative driven
software
product and what he did was he spent
time with the actual users he spent time
in their offices he spent time seeing
how they were spending their day what
lit them up and what they were afraid of
and then he figured out that if he could
serve their needs if he could address
their fears he could build an entirely
new customer base and ended up growing
the company by a factor of 20 and he
didn't need a lot of money to do this he
didn't need a lot of time to do this he
needed the empathy to understand
customers my first job at sper software
in 1983 on Christmas Day I didn't have
anything to do and I went in to answer
the customer service calls because in
those days voicemail hadn't been
invented yet and no one else was working
that day we made games for 10-year-olds
on Christmas a lot of people were going
to call for help and I was the only
person there for eight hours answering
the phone and for the next six months I
knew more more about our customers than
anybody else on my team because before
that and after that only the customer
service people answered the phone not
the marketing people but I knew what was
bothering them I knew what they were
afraid of so my best advice for you is
get closer to the
customers that's always always great
great advice uh getting closer to to
customers if you ever ever worked with
Proctor and Gamble they would always
take their agencies and us creatives we
always had to go out and hang out with
uh customers it was actually really
really fascinating uh listening to
people talking about um uh washing
dishes I mean it sounds banal but
actually it was incredibly insightful um
that's great and we have a question uh
coming out of the uh one of the the
Portuguese chat uh from matus um how do
I tell my story um about a brand or
service without it kind of sounding
promot tional how do you sort of get
that
balance think about a brand you
love are they
promotional they are to some people
they're just not to
you that think about a uh an elected
official that you are in favor of are
they promotional are they a hle not to
you just to other people that we
redefine the message based on how it
feels to us if people think you're
coming off as promotional you're either
talking to the wrong people or talking
to the wrong people in the wrong way
that what we are trying to do here is
say here I made this and if it's not for
you forgive me for bothering you but
here I made this creates a level of
tension because they're not sure what it
is but but if it's not for them then
it's a hassle and this gets back to
finding the Right audience are there 10
people that you can tell your story to
that would be glad you did because if
there aren't you need a better story if
there are what happens after those 10
people hear it do they tell their
friends right how is it that you heard
about Google because I promise you
didn't hear about Google from their
sponsorship of the Portuguese national
soccer team because they didn't sponsor
the team they ran no ads at all for
years and years and years how did you
find out about Google you found out
about it because someone else told
you great thank you uh we have a
question uh moving on rapidly we have a
question from Sheila asks what are your
thoughts on consumer engagement
especially Seas consumer engagement and
marketing as a
service as a
thing I've never heard that expression
before so I would love to answer it but
but if she could if she could clarify I
will do a better job she she could you
come back in the questions I have a lot
of questions so perhaps you can write
the question a couple times just repeat
it so I can see it uh when it uh comes
out um and then we have um uh from
memorabilia Cafe uh an interesting
thought about the Super Bowl um taking a
different point of view um do you think
the Super Bowl commercials actually
represent something to do with about it
being a tradition about people coming
together to watch a game uh it's a prime
time launch um and it's something
everyone will be talking about uh and it
involves families coming together and
people watching a a sort of a sport
being a sort of a
celebration um what would your take be
on seeing the the Super Bowl in that
light well so it's a lottery ticket and
frankly I don't care how much money
anheiser Bush wastes on the Super Bowl
it doesn't matter to me whatsoever I'm
talking about the Super Bowl as a
metaphor and a metaphor that says you
should buy an expensive lottery ticket
because maybe the masses will think it's
a great idea because every year maybe
one or two Brands wins that Lottery but
that's like saying we're going to post
clever things on Twitter and maybe we'll
have an Oreo moment that goes viral
that's not a plan that's buying a
lottery ticket the plan the deliberate
stepwise plan is what Patagonia did
right Patagonia said there's a very
specific group of people we can live a
story a story that they will tell other
people about a story filled with status
and affiliation a story that's genuine
generative that contributes and last for
years and they built a company worth
billions of dollars and they never
bought a lottery ticket not one lottery
ticket and the same thing is true for
somebody who wants to make it as a jazz
musician maybe just maybe you'll record
kind of blue and sell four million
record albums
unlikely on the other hand if you can
build a following like my friend Silla
May little Club then a bigger Club then
the Blue Note then a bigger club and
you're showing up for the people who
want to hear you you can have a career
and so what I am arguing for no matter
how big your marketing needs are is you
shouldn't be buying lottery
tickets
because someone's going to win the
lottery but it's not going to be
you interesting perspective except kind
of they they kind of hit Lucky in a way
managing to achieve that status yeah not
a not a sort of a strategy um sad Tim is
uh uh ter termy pardon me uh asks are
nonprofits uh more altruistic than uh
regular corporations how does
transformation and change of nonprofits
differ from those of businesses that
operate for
profit okay so in six weeks I am
launching a a major software project for
nonprofits and so I'm sping a lot of
time with them I've been a
philanthropist for a very long time my
parents grew up with nonprofit
nonprofits are a
system and again self-interest is
different than selfish but everybody who
works in a nonprofit
consistently is still making decisions
from self-interest the system is still
based on what keeps the system going and
many of the nonprofits that I admire
have been doing this for a long time and
the change they make is really
significant but that doesn't mean that
every single person and every single
nonprofit is sitting around being as
altruistic as they possibly can we're
still focused on
self-interest and so you know when Scott
Harrison built charity water which has
raised a quarter of a billion US dollars
in just 20 or 25 years he did it by
having a group of people who need in
this case water he's helped millions of
people not die another group of people
who seek status and affiliation on the
internet in exchange for donating money
and he's created that opportunity for
them and then a team internally where
people have room to grow and so if all
of the pillars of what you're
constructing feed each other and fuel
each other you can build a nonprofit
that lasts and so I guess to get to the
heart of your question nonprofits are
still marketers they're here to make a
change happen they need voluntary
participation they cannot force anyone
to do anything but when they can figure
out who they're here to serve and the
change they seek to make they can get
out of their own way and make it
happen great um lots of questions thank
you so much guys I'm trying my best to
include as many as possible uh I feel
very spoed for Choice uh in presenting
them um we have a question from uh
Tatiana who says
um how do you bring your best to a
client that sells a product that doesn't
match your
values all right I love this question
great
question here we go when you choose your
customers you choose your future you can
write that down if you want when you
choose your customers you choose your
future if you build a business with
cranky customers who always want to
bargain who need to call you in the
middle of the night who complain about
what you do who don't tell the others
then that's how you're going to spend
your
days you don't have to have this
customer you just have to have a
customer and it turns out that
organizations that do the best are
particular about their customers that if
you can fire the customers that are
wasting your time or you're breaking
your heart you will now have a space to
replace them with the kind of customer
you can be proud of and when customers
come to see that you are the kind of
person organization that is willing to
fire a bad customer they will behave
better and that changes everything
because now you are Partners you are not
someone who's just being told what to do
sooner or later we have to realize we
don't get tomorrow over again and
if you're being asked to work for an oil
company or somebody who's doing
something that you are ashamed
of if you keep saying yes that's how
you're going to spend the rest of your
days what I mean by not racing to the
bottom doesn't just mean don't lower
your price it also means pick your
customers wow great great answer when
when you choose your customers you
choose your future what a a great a
great line to remember if I have to say
I'm always envious of those Boutique
have been working in big Network
agencies I'm always very envious to
those small boutique agencies who kind
of do what you say they turn clients
away and the more they turn them away
they more they queue
up yeah exactly which is uh which is
amazing um lots lots of questions here
so um Arena asks how to cut through an
organization's mindset of measuring
success by getting massive numbers that
don't necessarily mean anything um but
rather a in more uh aiming smaller and
more
meaningfully yeah so we've been talking
about this and I'm really glad you're
bringing it up again so there's this
idea of false proxies and I write about
this in the book the song of
significance false proxies are easy
measures that aren't really relevant so
if you get into an accident in the
kitchen and you cut your
finger and you go to the doctor and they
take your temperature that's not really
helpful because you're bleeding what
your temperature is right now isn't the
problem the problem is you're bleeding
it's a false proxy easy to measure that
if you hire people because they look
like you they have similar backgrounds
they talk like you they have a similar
cast or because they're Charming you are
using false proxies to associate that
with success at work even though they
don't have anything to do with each
other
the thing you're highlighting is that
some organizations use big numbers as a
proxy but it's false so when I was VP at
Yahoo uh the homepage of Yahoo was the
homepage of the internet in 1999 it was
by far the most visited page on the
entire internet and there was an ad on
the top of the homepage that ad was sold
out a year in advance there was no good
reason to buy that ad because it was
undifferentiated garbage traffic at a
premium you were paying extra to reach
everybody you'd be much better off
buying 10 cheaper ads that each reached
on10th the number of people but were the
right people for the right
reason and it really bothered me and I
wondered about it a lot why was anyone
buying that ad and the answer is what
will I tell my boss you could buy that
ad and tell your boss you had just
bought the internet you could tell your
boss you bought the most popular one the
Super Bowl of Internet ads every single
day you could buy that ad and that's
what's happening at your company is it's
a system and the system is based often
on false proxies so the shift is to have
a conversation about who's it for and
what's it for what are we actually
seeking to measure are we trying are we
running ads to make a profit or are we
running ads to make noise if we're
running ads to make a profit would you
be interested in seeing a one-page
report that shows the profitability of
this ad versus that ad if someone says
no now you understand how resilient the
system is because they don't want to
know they just want to keep doing what
they're doing and you can't change their
mind if the answer is yes now you've got
a new proxy in place a more accurate
proxy the reason we ran the ads is to
make a profit and so um I just read
about a company uh oh a division of
danan that makes yogurt and they tested
something last year an anti-s Super Bowl
campaign that runs everywhere but on the
Super Bowl and they measured it
completely and accurately and they
figured out that in certain segments it
doubled their market share because
instead of spending money on TV ads they
spent money in the supermarket to get
more shelf space
around the big game well that focus on
the correct
proxy cost the market share of somebody
who was buying tv ads instead over time
if you have the right proxies you're
going to come out ahead so the antidote
to what you're talking about is not to
highlight the
symptom but to highlight the
conversation about proxies can we agree
that we want accurate proxies and if you
want more on this Michael Lewis's great
book Moneyball is all about this because
the way Moneyball the way baseball used
to work is the scouts were using a false
proxy did this person look like a
baseball player what was their uh
batting average and what they figured
out what Billy Bean figured out is the
actual proxy of would you make it in the
major leagues is what's your on base
percentage which was a statistic no one
was looking at because his Scouts were
the only Scouts looking at it were able
to get all these players for cheap and
they made it all the way to the World
Series with a tiny budget because they
had the right proxy so let's have a
conversation about proxies and then we
can talk about the
tactics that's great and that money
board is uh it's a film as well I think
I've watched the film it's it's it's a
great movie and and it and it did change
the way that uh uh the game was the
statistics were run on the game and the
way that everyone was working in the
industry it's actually it's a really
fascinating case study I'm I'm br
British so I don't really know much
about these American Sports but it was a
beautiful way you know you know as much
about baseball as I do which is this
much right right right we'll go watch a
cricket match One
Day in the UK um I've got a wonderful
question oh I've just been asked by um
our technical guys to say that you've
got over 650 people watching now so it's
gone up since the beginning which is
more than double uh the last time we
were with us so uh that that's fabulous
um from our Portuguese uh chat says how
to create a story and show the
difference between my vodka and other
brands vodka so this is a
differentiation question I
guess okay this is great and we're gon
to try to talk about Donald Bradman if
we don't get him to him today we'll get
to him next time
okay the differentiation is selfish
differentiation says I want to prove to
you I'm different than those guys
positioning is just generous it is where
do I fit in the grid so let me tell you
a couple stories about how you
differentiate wrong word how you
position
vodka one thing you could do is you
could use your entire ad budget to hire
attractive people to go into bars where
there are a lot of folks and loudly
order your brand of vodka and over time
your brand of vodka would be seen as the
one that attractive people are drinking
in public bars don't laugh this built a
brand of vodka that's worth hundreds of
millions of dollars another thing that
you could do is you could hire uh Bob
dorf and he could invent a cocktail that
uses your vodka and you could spend
money promoting the cocktail and give it
a
reputation and people who want the
authentic real version of that cocktail
would need to buy your vodka another
thing you could do is you could partner
with a celebrity who's been in lots of
superhero movies and drinking this vodka
could make people feel like a celebrity
notice none of these are about in a
blind taste test which vodka taste
better because no one drinks vodka
blindfolded we are engaging in this
thing socially and we are engaging in
this transaction with our emotions so
vodka is a perfect example of this
because most of the Vodka as far as I'm
told is made in one
Factory it's about the story that we're
buying not the actual item itself
because the item and the story are
inextricably linked so this is a magical
opportunity if you've chosen to be in
this business to realize you're in the
storytelling business what are the axes
where is there a space where someone
might want to be in this place and
there's nothing for them go be there
great thank you I love that that com
positioning is generous differentiation
is selfish what a great uh a great uh
line to remember uh I I I want to ask
this question because Sasha uh
rosenstark has uh with so much passion
and determination asked this question
several times as it's been going down uh
the feed uh and sash yes you I did notes
to try and say it that we managed to get
to it um and we always have to have an
agricultural question I think it's
becoming a tradition after the last
session so Sasha asks how to spread
change in agriculture considering that
people in Agri agriculture uh are not so
open to change and they're quite
conservative I guess the lessons for
probably a bunch of Industries here oh
yeah the metaphor is real the change is
not your friend if you are a farmer if
the weather changes if the soil changes
if anything changes it's not good you
want it to be just like it was the best
year you ever had because that's how you
engage on the other hand the most
important adopters of Technology over
the last hundred years all the way back
to the Green Revolution all the way back
to GMO and to different kinds of
tractors and drip irrigation have been
Farmers Farmers aren't anti- change
they're anti- trauma and and so what
happens is how do you have the
conversations occur so I spent time with
Western seed in Kenya and one thing that
you'll notice if you drive around
Nebraska or parts of the central United
States as you're driving through Farm
Fields there are rows and rows of corn
with signs on them each a different seed
and these are demonstration plots and
what they do is they just bring Farmers
by all year to look at this seed versus
that seed they're not asking them to be
Pioneers they're saying we just grew
only a mile from where you live these
kinds of seeds which one is better for
you and the challenge that Western seed
had in Kenya is the farmers weren't
talking to each other in Iowa in
Nebraska the farmers talk to each other
all the time because they know they're
not competing with each other they're
competing with other places their
neighbors are their friends and what was
happening in the Ken farming Community
is you kept it private so the big
insight for Western seed is introduce
the farmers to each other because when
the farmers meet each other they will
tell each other about the innovations
that are working for them and that is
how change happens in conservative
communities not because you told people
it was a good idea but because they told
each
other great um fabulous I think we
probably have quite a lot of time for
just one um final question um how do you
know if someone really cares or just
pretends to care um sorry this is from
Anita I should have said Anita thank you
for your question how do you know if
someone really cares or just pretends to
care uh because they just know it's a
good marketing uh
strategy I think authenticity is
overrated I think everybody pretends to
care I think everybody shows up at some
point either as the person they feel
like being in that moment or the person
they would like to be seen as so you
might not have felt like putting on an
outfit or shaving or going to work you
might not have felt like smiling at the
next customer you might not have felt
like doing the best surgery of your
career but that's what you promised you
would do and so you do it that we care
about consistency more than we care
about authenticity so if someone shows
up and shows up and shows up and keeps
their promises I don't care whether they
care or not I care that they're
consistent on the other hand if I've got
someone who cares right now but tomorrow
is distracted by the next thing I don't
want to be their customer so we can see
over and over again that there is a
pattern that you can successfully run a
fast food restaurant and be a vegetarian
because it doesn't matter to me whether
you eat the hamburgers it matters to me
whether you made a promise and you kept
great that's a great place I think to
end the session because we've now come
to an end uh it mattered to me whether
you made the promise uh and you kept it
a great final thought uh Seth Gorden
thank you so much for another amazing
inspiring session uh the numbers you can
see are going up very quickly uh a lot
of people fascinated a lot of great
questions uh a lot of great chats and
comments uh on uh the chat there so
thank you so much
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