Code Interpreter.... but OPEN SOURCE? Open Interpreter's Mike Bird on OS Projects, Mindset + More
Summary
TLDRIn this engaging conversation, Mike Bird discusses the potential and challenges of Open Interpreter, an open-source alternative to OpenAI's code interpreter. He shares his journey from discovering Open Interpreter to becoming a part of its team, highlighting the importance of open-source contributions in AI. Mike emphasizes the need for a mindset shift towards exploration and experimentation when working with AI tools. He also touches on the impact of AI in various industries, the balance between innovation and safety, and the future of AI technology in making tasks more accessible and improving quality of life.
Takeaways
- π Open Interpreter is an open-source version of OpenAI's code interpreter, aiming to bridge the gap between natural language and computer control.
- π The project was launched in September and has since attracted a technical audience interested in leveraging its capabilities.
- π± Mike Bird was the first person to successfully run Open Interpreter on a phone, which gained attention and led to further involvement with the project.
- π Open Interpreter is still in its early stages (version 0.2), and the team is focused on developing the product to fulfill its potential.
- π οΈ The tool is currently available via a command-line interface or as a Python library, catering to a tech-savvy audience.
- π§ Open Interpreter's auto-run feature is disabled by default, ensuring a human is always in the loop to monitor and guide the AI's actions.
- π€ The potential applications of Open Interpreter are vast, from coding assistance to automating mundane tasks, improving productivity and quality of life.
- π Mike Bird's passion for open source stems from the belief in sharing creativity and enabling others to build upon shared knowledge without starting from scratch.
- π The open-source community, particularly through platforms like Discord and GitHub, plays a crucial role in supporting and advancing projects like Open Interpreter.
- π Open Interpreter's approach to AI is about removing barriers and making technology more accessible and inclusive for everyone.
- π± The future of Open Interpreter includes the development of a desktop app and the possibility of running the tool completely locally on various hardware devices.
Q & A
What is the main purpose of Open Interpreter?
-Open Interpreter is an open-source tool that allows Local AI to run on your computer, serving as an interface between natural language and computer control to accomplish various tasks.
How did Mike Bird first get involved with Open Interpreter?
-Mike Bird discovered Open Interpreter shortly after its launch and started experimenting with it. He became the first person to run it successfully on a phone, which gained some attention. Eventually, the creator of Open Interpreter, Killian, invited Mike to join the team.
What is the current state of Open Interpreter in terms of development?
-Open Interpreter is still in its early development stages, with the current version being 0.2. It is primarily targeted at a technical audience and is available via a command-line interface tool or as a Python library.
What are some of the challenges faced by Open Interpreter?
-One of the main challenges is that it is very technical and intimidating for most people due to its command-line interface. Additionally, the tool is still in its infancy and needs further development to fulfill its potential.
How does Mike Bird use AI in his daily life?
-Mike Bird uses AI primarily for coding and offloading small, tedious tasks. He also uses it to learn new tools and for automating processes, such as setting up his work environment with a Stream Deck.
What is the importance of mindset shift for people using open-source tools?
-The mindset shift involves a willingness to explore, investigate, and experiment with new tools and models. Users should understand that these tools are not fully polished and that best practices are still being defined.
How does Mike Bird stay positive about AI and its potential despite the negative headlines?
-Mike focuses on the positive aspects and potential benefits of AI, such as advancements in medical technology and improvements in quality of life. He believes that the positive outcomes outweigh the negative and that society should embrace the technology responsibly.
What are some resources Mike Bird recommends for staying updated on AI news?
-Mike recommends following selected accounts on Twitter, subscribing to newsletters like Ben's Bites, and joining Discord communities like the Open Interpreter Discord to stay updated on AI news and trends.
What is the significance of the open-source approach in the development of AI tools like Open Interpreter?
-The open-source approach allows for collaboration and rapid innovation. It enables developers to build upon each other's work, share knowledge, and create tools that can benefit a wider audience without being restricted by proprietary barriers.
What are the future plans for Open Interpreter?
-There are plans to release an open-source equivalent of the Rabbit R1, a hardware device that would allow Open Interpreter to run on a physical device, making it easier for users to interact with and utilize the tool.
Outlines
π Open Interpreter and Local AI
The conversation starts with Mike Bird discussing the potential of distilling vast information into trends, specifically mentioning Discord and open-source projects. Mike shares his journey with Open Interpreter, an open-source version of OpenAI's code interpreter, which allows running code on a computer to accomplish various tasks. He highlights the importance of natural language control over computers and the future potential of AI in making computing more accessible and inclusive.
π§ Mindset Shift for Open Source Tools
The discussion shifts to the mindset required for effectively using open-source tools. Mike emphasizes the need for exploration, investigation, and experimentation. He talks about the technical audience for Open Interpreter and the challenges of using command line interfaces and Python libraries. Mike also mentions the development of a desktop app and the importance of managing expectations when working with tools still in their infancy.
π Open Source Models and Real-World Use Cases
Mike delves into the best use cases for different open-source models, discussing the importance of understanding the specific capabilities of each model. He mentions tools like Jan and Olama for switching between models and the concept of an 'arena' for ranking models based on user preferences. Mike also touches on the commercialization of open-source projects and the benefits of releasing work as open source.
π Positivity and AI Innovation
The conversation focuses on maintaining positivity in the face of AI innovation. Mike shares his enthusiasm for the potential benefits of AI, such as advancements in medical technology. He discusses the balance between progress and caution, emphasizing the need for both 'doomers' and 'risk-takers' in society. Mike also talks about his personal use of AI for coding and automation, and how it has improved his productivity and quality of life.
π Navigating AI News and Information
Mike shares his approach to staying updated with AI news, highlighting the importance of curating sources like Twitter and newsletters. He mentions specific resources like Ben's Bites and AI Breakdown, as well as the value of Discord communities for staying connected with the latest developments. Mike also discusses the challenge of managing information overload and the need for focus in the rapidly evolving AI field.
Mindmap
Keywords
π‘Open Source
π‘Open Interpreter
π‘AI (Artificial Intelligence)
π‘Local AI
π‘Natural Language Processing (NLP)
π‘Hackathon
π‘Community
π‘Innovation
π‘Automation
π‘Research Time
Highlights
Open Interpreter is an open-source version of OpenAI's code interpreter, allowing LLMs to run code on your computer for various tasks.
The tool acts as an interface between natural language and computer control, offering a broad range of capabilities.
Open Interpreter was launched in September and has been seen as a significant step towards natural language control of computers.
The first person to successfully run Open Interpreter on a phone, which led to a viral tweet and further engagement with the community.
Open Interpreter is still in its early stages, with the current version being 0.2, and is primarily targeted at a technical audience.
The importance of mindset shift in adopting open-source tools, including a willingness to explore, investigate, and experiment.
The potential of using Google's Colab to leverage external GPUs for running resource-intensive AI models.
The concept of using different AI models for specific tasks, acknowledging that each model has its strengths and weaknesses.
The challenge of finding the best model for a given task, which is a dynamic process as new models are released regularly.
The idea of using AI to offload mundane tasks, allowing professionals like doctors to focus on research and innovation.
The impact of AI on improving quality of life and reducing suffering, as seen with advancements like AlphaFold in medical research.
The importance of balancing progress with responsible deployment, ensuring that AI technologies are used ethically and safely.
The potential of embedded AI to democratize access to AI technology, making it more accessible for everyday tasks.
The value of open-source projects in fostering innovation and collaboration, as well as the potential for commercial opportunities.
The role of open-source communities in providing support, tutorials, and a collaborative environment for users and developers.
The importance of staying up-to-date with AI news and developments, using platforms like Twitter, Discord, and newsletters.
The idea of distilling vast amounts of information into trends and summarizing them for easier consumption and further exploration.
Transcripts
that's where I see a lot of value um for
any entrepreneurial people listening
where if we can distill the vast amount
of information into what's trending in
Discord trending on X and be able to
like package it in a way where you can
link to more information that's a very
valuable product and I hope it's open
sourced Renee here at UNS supervised
learning your easy listening podcast for
bleeding edge open source Tech I'm
sitting with Mike Bird who I came across
on a I think it was a Twitter post that
was again calling out Jan and I got
notified it was like hey we should reach
out to this person and you're doing a
lot of really cool stuff with local Ai
and now you've joined open interpreter
officially um yeah so open interpreter
my understanding is it's an open version
of open ai's code interpreter which it
sounds like I've just said the word open
like 50 times but do you want to take it
away yeah we're the legit open one so
open interpreter is a way for llms to be
able to run code on your computer to
accomplish tasks it you can think of as
like the interface between natural
language and computer control and what
do you use it for so one cool thing with
open interpreter is it's just the
breadth of capability uh it's really
like the everything app we've just had
to you know make the pilgrimage but you
were saying about how you came to be at
open
interpreter yeah so um open interpreter
was launched last September uh early on
and I immediately saw and thought like
this is the future the ability to take
natural language and control computer is
something that everyone's kind of
working towards and this was that first
like big leap towards that so right off
the bat just started playing with it
open source anyone can download it try
it and I just started playing around and
really enjoyed like the capabilities
that unlocked I was the first person to
get it running successfully on a phone
and that demo actually caught a little
bit of fire it was my first viral tweet
really really excited about it uh and it
was super basic but then Killian the the
creator of open interpreter uh reached
out and said hey the next house party we
have we have these digital House Parties
which are a lot of fun uh he said you
want to give another demo so I said
absolutely of course put together a
little bit more uh gave a demo there
everyone really liked it and then just
kind of kept chipping away um I've been
doing freelance work for the last year
and a bit um and then just doing a on
the side I've either been a software
developer or the AI guy at companies and
then staying up to date on what the open
source world was doing what tools were
available just eventually making some
demos trying out different things it
just kept getting more and more Steam
and then one day kilan was like hey do
you want to uh join the team like
absolutely I've been doing software
since 2015 and always had the passion
for open source it's it's a gift to to
the world being able to just like take
your creativity put it out there and
then ever the developer gets to start
from from that point and move ahead
rather than having to start from scratch
so the ability to work for an open
source project especially when as cool
as open interpreter has just been
absolutely awesome so yeah it's just one
of those passion projects where uh an a
good idea that everyone kind of uses
like the natural progression of how we
interface with computers remove barriers
allow more accessibility inclusivity in
access to compute and open interpreters
making sure everyone has access to that
and it's not hidden behind you know an
open AI pay wall have you found and so
my journey into getting into local AI
was a little bit of it was through like
no code and wanting to do things without
open ai's API and realizing that you can
actually run things offline so what what
are you finding most people's use cases
is it a fairly Tech heavy audience yeah
yeah definitely in uh at this point it's
very Tech heavy we only offer or open
interpreter is only available via uh a
command line interface tool or as a
python library and opening up that
little black box with just a flashing
cursor is pretty intimidating for most
people uh there is a desktop app in the
work so you can join the weight list for
that but right now we are just making
sure that the product gets developed
we're still at version 0.2 still very
early days so the technical audience has
more understanding nature around how can
we work with this tool that's still in
its infancy to build it up into
something that has all the potential
that open interpreter promises and even
at this current stage the current state
of Open Source LMS are not quite at the
point where a wide range of capabilities
are there but the people who use the
open source models realize that like
each one is tailored to a specific thing
like you can use something like dolphin
mixol which is a very capable model
probably on par with GPD 3.5 but it's
still not going to reach the generality
of gp4 but then you get ones like SQL
coder which actually exceed GPT 4 in
turning natural language into SQL
queries so knowing that like having this
little vertical column of capability per
each model and being able to switch
between them with tools like Jan or
olama or llama file really allows a lot
of capability but we're not at the
general state that the general public
wants with a model like gbd4 however it
gets better every day so very soon um
we'll be able to run open interpreter
completely locally to the point where
it's able to do the tasks that you ask
of it on the whole like different models
for different tasks that's one of the
the
foundational kind of questions that I
see people asking so I had I don't know
if I wrote it in the questions that I
had prepared for you but it was kind of
what do you think is the key kind of
unlocks that people need to jump
from understanding so I had a a
recording yesterday where the person was
saying that GPT 4 helped them kind of
Leap Frog over in terms of their
technical capability where they wouldn't
have been able to do it without it like
their coding knowledge right and they're
not a coder but it's like are there are
there things that you think in terms of
like a mindset shift that people need to
make to be able to start working
specifically with open source tools I
would say the mindset shift needs to be
around a willingness to uh explore
investigate experiment play like just be
willing to approach a new tool a new
model with the understanding that it's
not going to have all the edges polished
everything is so new everything is
expanding so quickly that there's no
really defined way of best practices yet
so the understanding that using Model A
for something might get good results
model B might get great results but then
horrible results for something else and
it's not the fault of the model it's
just a very resource intensive process
to train fine-tune and deploy these
models even running them like the vast
majority of people's Home Hardware is
not at the same level as open AI server
Farms so making sure that expectations
are are leveled towards what we're
actually putting towards it because when
people talk about having a an an old
laptop with you know 16 gigs of RAM like
you're not going to be able to run that
much off of it and just measuring your
um expectations based on that but as you
can use tools like Google's collab or
runpod to actually leverage external
gpus then you start seeing like a big
increase in capability so it's kind of
the the flexibility with the existing
architecture of the open source
ecosystem versus what you want it to
accomplish
so if we if we go right back like I did
in a different podcast where I was like
okay let's go right back so Google
collab that enables end users to use
external gpus and that's the whole
renting gpus right yeah so with Google
collab it's an interface to write uh
jupyter notebooks python code and then
run it on Google um gpus so locally you
could have a MacBook with decent power
but through collab you can pay by the I
Believe by the second but let's say by
the minute or hour to get highend gpus
that you can really Crush through tasks
with and then you're just paying a bill
for a pay per use rather than having to
buy a little like tiny box or something
spend 15 grand to get it there you're
able to just pay per use and it does
enable you to access these things but
then you're still paying a a fair sum
and start using it regularly and that's
not locally run that's is that mixing
the two like it it's all yeah it's run
remotely so it's on the hosted by Google
but you can still use open source models
through that okay I'm going to have some
kind of like little diagram there for my
own understanding the other thing that
you said about different models I think
one of the that's one of the main
questions is like what's the best model
for this and it's like it's one of those
classic like it depends things so and it
changes every day because new models are
released every day but in my mind and I
think of it like a little very infantile
it's like this one's good for writing
this one's good for for coding so I
don't touch things like what is it deep
seek and those coding ones because I'm
like I have no use for it but do you
have uh like resources that you would
typically go to like a like a place
where you would recommend this is
generally a question that I leave to the
end but I just I'm really curious yeah
there's one uh I actually forget the
name I'll I'll grab it for you after but
there's an arena where what you'll do is
you go to this website and it will allow
you to ENT a prompt and then it'll
generate two responses and you just pick
which one's better if they're the same
you're mark them the same and in the
back end what they're doing is they're
ranking all the models based upon user
preferences and giving an ELO score
similar to how chess players are reigned
so with this it's really using the
general or like the actual output rather
than benchmarks because benchmarks can
be gained once you look at hugging faces
um like rankings based on benchmarks you
get these really small models that are
fine-tuned on exactly the test that
they're measured on and of course
they're going to crush it but as soon as
you take it out of that constrained
environment they're horrible so with
this Arena apprach approach you're
actually having users come in say I like
this output better than that output
you'll get models like uh Claude 2.1
ranking significantly lower than it's
claimed to just because it's so heavily
censored that its outputs are kind of
trash so getting real world use case
like that is good but one thing that's
very popular to people is Just Vibe
check download it play with it tools
like like Jan and AMA allow you to
quickly test different models side by
side where you can say hey this is what
I wanted to do I'm I'm a writer I needed
to track outlines for me I want a tool
that's really good for that and then you
just got to play with yourself it's one
of those things where you can't always
rely on the benchmarks because they can
be gamed pretty easily that's such a
common uh a common point that I'm
hearing across like doesn't matter who I
talk to really and so it's kind of
similar to like if I'm thinking about
reviews in like this because I'm coming
from the SAS world and it's like nobody
really trusts reviews anymore like G2 or
whatever it's like but when you
mentioned about the the patience it
makes me think of like commercialization
of Open Source and is open interpreter
that's not your first open source
project that you've been a part of it's
the first one that I've been employed
with I have worked at other companies
where we've released either um code
bases or full projects as open source um
I've been a big proponent I used to work
at a robotic software company and we had
a partnership with this robot
manufacturer and we said yep we we'll
gladly do this work for you but we want
to open source it and I super proud of
the company to do that because again
it's just it's very Niche not many
people will use it but now anyone can so
it just enables people to level up that
much quicker yeah because my my kind of
question it's not really question it's
not really a point it's just one of my
typical goes nowhere sentences with you
made me think about I I have to again
put it in the in the notes it was a
research paper on Game Theory of how why
people are so reluctant especially like
Enterprises are so reluctant to go open
source because they're like oh people
are going to steal my stuff and it's
like yeah well at what point it was like
infrastructure as a open source or in
I'm G to have to go back and edit this
out but it it was like have you
seen what kind of mindset shift
businesses have to make in order to be
kind of Pro open source or do you think
that it's not something that you can
repeat as a
pattern it's
definitely a different business model um
and a different mindset in general when
you look at companies like actually one
step back so the internet whether it's
servers or iot devices all run on Linux
which is an open source software and the
creative Linux is very doing very well
for himself because people understand
that there are add-ons you can do like
it's not just the software that making
money it's the services behind it and
that's kind of been my Approach too
where I am happy releasing the work that
I do as open source because people see
value in it people understand the
expertise that went into building it and
then they're like hey we would like you
to integrate this with our service hey
we would like to hire you to contract so
instead of just saying pay me for my
product it's here is an example here is
proof that I know what I'm doing now you
can bring me aboard and it's not for
everyone not every situation but the
people who can pull it off tend to have
uh a greater desire to kind of build up
the ecosystem as a whole and then the
ecosystem tends to them for it yeah
that's what I'm thinking because I I
just from like a brief interaction with
you you seem like a very positive person
which is I'm not saying that's unique in
open source but or in Tech but I see a
lot of um uh not not jaded people but
it's kind of how do you how do you
maintain that that positivity around the
innovation in AI right because there's a
lot of like doomers and then there's
also like how how are you remaining
balanced about
it it's very helpful being so ingrained
in it when you on the peripheral of Open
Source AI or just AI in general all
you're hearing is those Doom and Gloom
headlines being like the like end of
humanity all of these scary things but
when you're working on it directly you
you see the benefit like uh when Google
deep mine came out with Alpha fold all
of a sudden they solve the protein
folding problem which will lead to
countless medical advances which will
lead to countless saved but that makes
headlines for a day there's not people
arguing to like push open source or push
AI farther ahead because of these
advances like Alpha fold but the amount
of suffering that will be reduced the
amount of increasing quality of life all
over the world that AI will give is is
astronomical like there will be orders
of magnitude more Improvement in so many
people's lives because of AI getting
ingrained in more
services however that doesn't sell
headlines so a lot of people will just
click on to the the the anger and the
fear the manipulation that comes with
that and it's really unfortunate because
we're doing ourselves a disservice by
not sufficiently embracing a technology
and don't get me wrong we need some
degree of safests rather than doomers
who are dragging their feet a little bit
making sure we do things properly
because just like Society we need a push
and pull like we can't be 100%
Progressive or 100% conservative because
that is a recipe for failure we need a
little bit of both so having people say
look like before we just start deploying
this thing everywhere like let's make
sure we have like our BAS is covered
first very reasonable very responsible
we also need the people saying like we
need to take a little bit of risks like
there there's you got to risk it to get
the biscuit and it's very important as a
society that we understand that the the
improvements the the societal gains that
come from this are going to be so
beneficial that um so one example my uh
like my parents both retirement age I
live in a very small community with a
lot of like old people and every person
who say in 3 years dies of a disease
that AI cures in four years is a tragedy
we we should push it as fast as possible
in the medical realm to make sure that
we get these advances because the amount
of people who have been saved by
Advanced Medical Technology increases
every year and this can be a greatly
forward we'll have gene therapy will
have a whole bunch of mRNA um advances
that will really cure diseases that
right now don't have enough impact to
really justify the funding but AI is
going to all of a sudden change the
equation so
yeah staying positive is just kind of
keeping ey on the prize and realizing
that no matter what people say about the
negative aspects when you look at the
positive aspects it's it really
outweighs it I recently did like an
Asing interview with someone who worked
on a project to dis like it was to
discover the Parkinson's Gene via voice
in like low resourcing um areas over
over phone and it was it was like how
using AI I'm like how how do you do that
like I'm like the most non-technical
person I'm like that's incredible but I
see what you're saying like in terms of
your own because I'm I can't stop
looking at the 3D printer now that I
know what it is like your own AI
specific projects like what do you use
AI
for I use
it a lot of it's with coding a lot of it
is offloading the small tedious things
it also gets around trying to
develop automations I have here a little
a stream deck which is a cool device
that streamers use but I found It's a
Wonderful productivity tool and I had no
idea how to work it at first but AI can
kind of walk me through the process of
like understanding the tool learning the
tool it's a little like assistant like
you get the back and forth you get to do
the um Socratic method to learn things
and then when you understand you're like
okay I want to modify to suit my
expectations and that's where the coding
help comes in so it's still mostly in
the in the coding in the technical realm
um but then you can even Branch out
being like I have a buddy who's a
videographer and he does amazing work
just came out with a documentary which
is really cool to see but now ai enables
him to no longer rely on like external
editors external graphic designers AI
one of the cool things about it is it's
going to completely remove mediocrity
where the Baseline is now elevated
because AI enables everyone to be a
little bit more capable and that's one
thing that really excites me about open
interpreter because it has the ability
to impact every single industry
because you're able to offload work to
this little assistant here have it
create things for you have it accomplish
tasks for you you just give it natural
language I've been working on some ways
to automate that when you can just feed
it a spreadsheet as an example or any
document and then it parses through it
and accomplishes all of those tasks so
all of a sudden you're freed up to do
other things whether it's work more or
take more Leisure and then if you do do
the Leisure route all of a sudden like
your quality of life improves you become
a happier person less screen time
there's one thing to be said about how
much our current Society is stuck on on
screens and the internet and a lot of
that's because everything we're doing is
very manual we're not able to just say
find me a summary of all the news for
the day um you got to like look through
read it but if you have this little bot
that comes up and says these are the top
five points you should know you can
double click on something if you want
otherwise you can walk away it's going
to really free up time mental capacity
and allow us to you know get a more
balanced approach to life so my
understanding of open and has just
changed a little bit because now I'm
thinking of it like a almost like an AI
agent that has a is it called a
hierarchical understanding where you
pass it to it it'll do an activity and
it'll say is this okay and you'll be
like yeah otherwise it'll just go ahead
my yeah so yeah so one of the safety
mechanisms with open interpreter is auto
run is disabled by default so what what
open interpreter does is it'll take a
task develop a plan to to reach that
task or sorry reach that goal and then
write and execute the code to accomplish
it um but there's always a human in the
loop to make sure things are good you
can run it auto run uh like a
self-driving car keep your eyes on the
road like Don't Let It Go muck because
it might get into a loop drive up your
open AI Bill if you're using local model
make sure the alignment's good and then
otherwise it's it's a very capable tool
what's
alignment alignment is defined
differently by different people but you
can think of it as does the guard rails
on the AI align with your guard rails is
is the ai's goal aligned with your goal
so more often than not they don't have
goals unless you give them one
explicitly and then as long as that's
the case there's no issue so with tool
like open interpreter it will explicitly
lay out the plan and you can say hey
that is exactly what I want you to do
all good if not you just hit no and then
rephrase your request and then it can
adjust accordingly right I'm thinking
back to you said the stream deck that's
the thing with the little knobs right
yeah knobs and buttons so what what are
you using that for in everything from
like I got some lights here that I
automate I have a little I my work
button so as soon as I start my work day
I just hit it and everything pops up I
get logged in you can set different
automations I have my demo time so when
I want I press the button lights turn on
to to the right temperature got to get
the good skin color and then it opens up
my screen recording software it opens up
my code it opens up my terminal so it
just gets everything ready where instead
of having to do it's it's a few seconds
of time that it saves but it's
consistent results every time so I don't
have to worry about oh like did I tweak
this setting or did I forget to you know
open up this profile it's just the same
result every time so it's just one L
thing I have to worry about and I can
focus on the demo itself I wonder about
it that is really cool it's also I
literally recorded about home automation
yesterday um because it's one of my
goals as I've only just gotten Wi-Fi at
my house I've been hotspotting off my
phone for five years wow I know uh so
I'm very excited about lights but I I
have a tendency in automation to do
things that it will save me 15 seconds
of time and it takes me 15 hours to set
up the automation but I that's the
engineer dilemma we love that
stuff um like with open
interpreter you said that it's you can
use it through vs code or so uh use it
through the terminals so
it you almost think of it like a
standalone program so it can give you
code that you could copy and paste into
vs code but there are more optimized
tools whether it's so I use cursor as my
IDE and within cursor I use um Cody as
my inline text complete so those two AI
tools are very well optimized for uh an
editor for an IDE but open interpreters
more optimized for the general purpose
assistant okay and it's it's you
utilizing models that are like they open
models that any models that you want and
it's using natural language
understanding so it goes back to that
thing of like you can't you only kind of
get out what you put in so if I can't
succinctly explain what I want it's not
going to be able to do what I want like
correct and and there's also
configuration capabilities where you can
give it custom instructions so for
example I will say make sure you use ARC
browser or make sure you use as my
terminal instead of the default terminal
guiding it a little bit really helps but
even though special instructions the
importance of them vary between models
so again GPT 4 being state-ofthe-art is
a lot more capable at just kind of
inferring what you're looking for with a
little B of help some of the excuse me
open source models will require a little
more coaxing to do what you want so back
to what I said earlier like you need to
be willing to experiment and play with
the open source models because they
don't have the same
generality
yeah I wanted to ask like what sparked
you into exploring open
source it's yeah um it's always felt
right you know like the ability to code
is kind of like a superpower because you
take nothing a blank screen using your
brain you you create something that
people find value with like there
there's nothing there except like
changing ones and zeros you're
controlling the flow of electricity
through sand it it sounds like a
superpow five I've ever heard one and
then it's like to use your superpower
for are evil and not saying close source
is evil but it's constrainted in its its
reach and there tends to be a heavy
profit motive and I mean we need profit
motive to to encourage people to
dedicate their lives to things they
don't really want to do but like I said
I I feel I hit the jackpot getting this
job with open interpreter where I get to
spend my time and energy with my bills
covered being able to work towards
bringing this technology to everyone and
very fortunate not everyone's able to be
in a situation like that but when you
spend your life doing something that you
hate just to get a paycheck the Clos
vers open debate is less relevant but if
you're fortunate enough to be in a
position where it's like hey I get to
make the choices as to how I spend my
time um it just feels like the right
thing to do like there there are going
to be billions more people accessing the
internet and a portion of them are going
to be software developers and a portion
of those are going to be working with AI
and if we can enable them to have as
much tooling as possible they just like
ramp up and can contribute to This
Global e system of available software
that benefits
everybody I love your energy like
sincerely you mentioned about like not
being behind the screen do you do you
have outside Hobbies like I for bit of
context I live in a village of 600
people on uh peninsula in Ontario uh
about 3 hours north of Toronto um best
hiking best kaying you can find we're
we're Instagram famous for Crystal Blue
Waters um yeah spend the vast majority
of my time outdoors and then inside tend
to be my office yeah nice um who who
would you interview you mentioned the
Linux founder but who would you
interview in anyone in open source or Ai
and I have mentioned before that they
are allowed to be dead um um for AI I
would say I saw this someone else
mentioned this on your show so it's not
original but Andre karpathy he is he was
high up at Tesla hpid open AI he's been
involved with and overseen massive
advances in Ai and a wonderful
communicator educator if you're ever
looking to like understand llms more
deeply or want to build your own GPD his
YouTube channel is pure gold uh he also
seems like a cool guy to have a drink
with and you know I got to shoot my shot
to try to win over to team open source
so that would be cool and I actually
don't know if I'd want to interview Len
tald I feel like I'd walk away feeling
really dumb but I'll put a maybe pile
maybe pin on that one I I think um I
think that's one of the one of the best
things that I've done recently is like
the willingness to look dumb because you
can ask questions that people have had
on their mind and they're like oh I'm so
glad that she was the class clown for
that I thank you for your service that's
all right happy to do it uh your if you
could claim intellectual property rights
for anything or if you could uh I give
two options like you can claim
intellectual property rights or you can
have just invented anything what would
it be
me anything that's
so I kind of go back to my open source
stand I don't know so being in software
for this long I think software IP is
ridiculous the the fact that people can
try to claim things like rounded corners
and oneclick checkout is outrageous to
me like that's just a natural
progression of where software goes I
understand especially for like hardware
and products if you put your heart and
soul into something wanting to make sure
you reap the rewards of your creativity
in your hard work but for software no I
don't think there should be software
patents I think that's silly
um I don't know I so I have a a
background in in Health Sciences so for
me there's a big emphasis on medical
technology so if I could invent anything
it would definitely be something like
I'm drawing a blank on the name there's
the the nerdy Star Trek things where
like you can just like scan someone be
like oh like you have this going on like
this is how we fix you um the ability to
rapidly diagnose and treat
a multitude of diseases would be
something I would absolutely love to
participate in and I feel like
tangentially open interpreter is going
to be able to help reach those goals
because it'll be able to offload a lot
of the mundane work allowing doctors and
other um other people in the medical
profession to be more researchers rather
than having to like go through the
nitty-gritty like if we can have people
free up their time to be able to pursue
curiosity and investigate new potential
avenues for like treatment and diagnosis
uh is going to reduce suffering
immensely that's something that I've
realized in in open source like very
briefly being exposed to it is the the
value placed on Research time and um
yeah the value placed on Research time
and understanding and like being able to
sit with problems and also Gathering
different people's opinions like that is
so foreign to me because like I was I
was working with the Jan team and it was
so
um yeah so welcoming and just very like
I'm I'm not painting a picture of like
everything's perfect in open source but
it's I think it is that that thing that
you mentioned about like it being
beneficial to humankind like it's it's
better for the greater good like um but
with open interpreter I feel like I'm
getting this sense what are your
thoughts on like embedded AI is that the
right term even like because you kept
saying
robot yep so with the release of the
rabbit R1 uh Killian put out a call to
action being like let's make the open
source version to this and I don't know
when this episode's going out but
probably around that time there's going
to be a release of the 01 the open
source equivalent there's a group of
people meeting in Seattle every week
going through this six-week hackathon to
build this open source equivalent and
one of the purposes of that is to get
open interpreter on a hardware device
because if I could have a little box
right beside me I press the Buton and
say I need to do this task and I can
just offload it onto that little box and
then I do my own thing all of a sudden
I'm freed up to do so much more so I
don't think
it's uh like an end goal or like the
Grand Vision but it's a good component
in order to democratize access to this
technology that and that's in six weeks
time did you say Well they're pretty
deep into it so I don't want to put too
much pressure on them so let's say you
know around the end of the month
sometime in March maybe there'll be a
pretty big announcement a lot of people
have been involved with it it's uh it's
going to be pretty gamechanging and how
many hackathons have you like are you
into i' I've done a fair bit over my
over my career um first one was in
blockchain a couple other with AI um one
really cool thing that I've been
involved with is internal hackathons
where companies say you know what hands
off the keyboard like business processes
stop like let's do something that's
completely off the road map and just
like let your creativity flourish
and I firmly believe if more companies
Embrace this mentality a lot more
Innovation would be sparked because
going through the day and day out you
get a very deep understanding of the
product uh or service or whatever is
you're working with but there's always
that the human desire to kind of like
bring more or like explore little things
like back to the Curiosity so if more
companies were willing to just say look
let's get everyone together across
disciplinary team people with different
backgrounds different experiences and
say just make something cool like like
see what you can do and then and a lot
of really cool Innovations come from
that yeah I want to ask you one last
thing because again you seem so positive
and like you have actually slept and
most people in AI seem like they haven't
slept uh where are you like keeping up
with with AI news
and um honestly Twitter X is is by far
the best place in my mind there's you
you have to choose your accounts that
you follow wisely though because there
is just a fire hose of information um I
subscribed to a couple newsletters um if
you're looking for information on
tooling uh Ben's bites is pretty good um
if you're more into podcasts uh in
regards to like industry news I listen
to the AI breakdown da daily summary of
you know everything in the industry um a
bit less technical but still pretty good
summary um Discord has a lot of alpha
Discord if you can join the open
interpreter Discord and all of a sudden
you're just link to all these other
things um you just have to be able to
like parse through again the the fire
hose of information that's one of the
hardest things that's where I see a lot
of value um for any entrepreneurial
people listening where if we can distill
the vast amount of information into
what's trending in Discord trending on X
and be able to like package it in a way
where you can link to more information
that's a very valuable product and I
hope it's open sourc that's I that's the
the first thing that I've been trying to
do with AI agents and like experimenting
with Lang chain and I've seen uh I can't
remember her last name but Maya I
watched a video uh was essentially like
summarizing Discord Bots and like
scraping Reddit and trying to find
relevant things from like local llama
because I go in there I'm like certain
things I are way above my head and other
things are relevant so but it yeah it's
about what is relevant within within the
industry like I think the like mid
Journeys the dollies the everything that
is really interesting really cool I
can't put mental energy towards it it's
not in my in my chord directive and it's
not really a distraction but it's kind
of a distraction because there's just
there's Infinity rabbit holes you can
fall down so trying to maintain some
degree of focus while still you know
just pursue something you love add a
little bit of exploration on top of that
but you got to be somewhat focused
because every day there's new
developments yeah I think I don't know
was testing out I think it was Blue Sky
I need to stop I need to be like put
blinders on like a horse um I think it
was Blue Sky I was like I I don't care
about your AI cartoons like I darly and
all of that like they're so amazing but
I don't I can't bring myself to care and
then I feel like I shouldn't poo poo
things like that but yeah I'm going to
pop in the show notes open interpreters
Discord and um GitHub but where should
people reach out to you where you you're
most accessible on Twitter I feel like
yep I and in the two you mentioned um
anyone who's looking to get exposure
whether it's like serious involvement or
just a little bit check out the the
GitHub um some good discussions there
it's a good way to get familiar with the
product um we do have an an X Community
where you can get a lot of tutorials and
guides in a more Consolidated form
rather than just like Twitter as a whole
um and the Discord um earlier today I
hosted a build with Me session where I
was doing just like some code
refactoring um few people joed in we
worked as a team we got a PR pushed up
so really cool the community that's
developed open interpreter has been
wonderful for bringing people together
and just kind of like here's the core
Mission everyone wants to accomplish it
build each other up no drama it it's
been very good that's awesome thank you
so much Mike I'm really happy to have
had this time with you this was awesome
thanks for having me thank you that
wraps up this week's episode of
unsupervised learning I'm your host
Renee and I've had a great time chatting
with you as always links to everything
we discussed will be in the show notes
make sure you reach out to our guests
questions or feedback reach out to pod
unsupervised learning. until then leave
a like follow or rating on Spotify Apple
podcast or YouTube and until next week
stay curious
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