#73: Why we can’t stop following the herd

Summary

This podcast episode explores the power of group dynamics and how they influence our behavior and decisions. Host Phil Agnew discusses the story of a plane crash caused by panic due to a loose crocodile, highlighting the instinct to follow others in groups. The conversation with Laura Osborne and Alex Chesterfield delves into polarization, identity fusion, and the impact of group memberships on various aspects of life, including politics, hiring, and social interactions. The episode also touches on the fluidity of group identity and the implications for marketing, emphasizing the importance of targeting specific groups for effective positioning.

Takeaways

• 📌 The script narrates a tragic plane crash in Africa, where the sole survivor revealed that panic caused by a loose crocodile led to the disaster, illustrating the powerful influence of group behavior.
• 🔍 The episode 'Poles Apart' discusses the science behind why people turn against each other and how group memberships can deeply affect our attitudes and actions.
• 🌐 The podcast features a conversation with Laura Osborne and Alex Chesterfield, who explore the dynamics of group polarization and its effects on various aspects of life, including personal relationships and professional decisions.
• 📉 The discussion highlights that polarization is not just about political divisions but also extends to social and personal life, influencing who we hire, marry, and befriend.
• 💡 The power of groups is rooted in our ancient capacity to form groups for survival benefits, which has evolved into a psychological need for belonging and identity.
• 🧠 The brain reacts to social exclusion similarly to physical pain, indicating the deep-seated need to belong to a group and avoid the discomfort of being left out.
• 👥 Group identity can be fluid and change based on context, as demonstrated by studies showing how quickly allegiances and behaviors can shift in different situations.
• 🤔 The script challenges the idea of sitting on the fence, suggesting that ambiguity in group allegiance can be met with hostility, as seen in historical and social experiments.
• 🛑 The example of the French Revolution seats illustrates how quickly group identities can form and how they can influence behavior and reactions to others.
• 💼 The episode connects group dynamics to marketing, emphasizing the importance of targeting specific groups rather than trying to appeal to everyone, as people feel strong allegiances to their groups.
• 🚀 The story of Bank of America's growth from a small bank for Sicilian immigrants to a nationwide brand demonstrates the power of starting with a well-defined group and expanding based on success.

Q & A

What was the cause of the plane crash in Africa in 2010?

The plane crash was caused by a sudden panic among passengers when a young crocodile, which had escaped its cage, caused chaos on board. Passengers and crew moved to the front of the plane, throwing off its weight balance and leading to the crash.

What is the concept of 'identity fusion' as mentioned in the script?

Identity fusion is a strong, visceral sense of oneness with a group. It is an extreme form of group loyalty where individuals may prioritize the group's interests over their own self-preservation.

How does group identity influence our behavior and decision-making?

Group identity can significantly influence our behavior and decisions by making us feel a strong allegiance to the group, which can lead to favoring the group's views, outlooks, and even altering our actions based on the group's norms and expectations.

What is the impact of polarization on various aspects of our lives?

Polarization affects not just political views but also spills over into other areas of our lives, including who we hire, who we marry, and the friends we have. It can lead to division and a lack of willingness to engage with those who hold opposing views.

How does being part of a group influence our feelings and actions?

Being part of a group can make us feel good by providing a sense of belonging and community, which in turn can influence our actions to align with the group's norms and behaviors.

What is the psychological effect of being excluded from a group?

Being excluded from a group can cause psychological pain, akin to physical pain. Studies have shown that the brain activity in response to social exclusion is similar to that experienced during physical pain.

How does the study involving Manchester United fans illustrate the 'us versus them' mentality?

The study showed that Manchester United fans were significantly more likely to help an injured person wearing a Manchester United shirt compared to a Liverpool shirt, demonstrating a clear bias towards in-group members.

What is the significance of the term 'FOMO' in the context of group identity?

FOMO, or 'Fear of Missing Out', is significant in the context of group identity as it represents the pain of being left out or excluded from a group, which can drive individuals to conform to group norms to avoid this discomfort.

How can the fluidity of group identity impact our behavior in different contexts?

The fluidity of group identity means that our allegiance to a group can change based on the context or situation we are in, which in turn can lead to different behaviors in different settings.

Can you provide an example from the script that demonstrates how quickly group allegiances can change?

The script mentions an example of a study where participants' attitudes towards a person named Jane changed based on whether they were told she would join their team or a rival team, showing how quickly group allegiances can influence opinions.

What marketing insights can be drawn from the understanding of group identity and polarization?

Understanding group identity and polarization can inform marketing strategies by highlighting the importance of targeting specific groups with well-defined needs and preferences. It also suggests that creating a strong brand identity can help capture the interest and loyalty of a particular group.

Outlines

00:00

📡 The Mysterious Plane Crash and the Power of Human Instinct

In 2010, a plane crash in Africa that killed all but one passenger remains unexplained until the survivor's account. The crash occurred without mechanical failure or pilot error. Instead, panic ensued when a young crocodile escaped its cage onboard, causing passengers to move to the front of the plane, upsetting its balance and leading to the crash. This incident underscores the powerful influence of group behavior and human instinct, which can lead to unintended consequences. The episode introduces the topic of group dynamics with Phil Agnew, host of the 'Nudge: The Science of Marketing' podcast, discussing the power of groups with Laura Osborne and Alex Chesterfield, authors of 'Poles Apart', who explore polarization and group behavior.

05:00

🔍 Polarization and the Consequences of Group Identity

The discussion delves into the concept of polarization, noting that while it fluctuates over time, its manifestations have expanded into various aspects of life, including employment, marriage, and social circles. The authors of 'Poles Apart' highlight the impact of group memberships and partisan labels on individual feelings and behaviors. They cite a statistic showing increased disapproval among parents if their child marries someone from an opposing political party, illustrating the growing divide. The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding the effects of group identity on personal biases and decision-making.

10:03

🧠 The Psychological Benefits and Drawbacks of Group Belonging

The script explores the deep-seated human capacity to form groups, which provides both physical and psychological benefits, such as self-esteem and a sense of belonging. It discusses the phenomenon of identity fusion, where group loyalty can supersede self-preservation, as illustrated by a World War II bomber crew's tragic decision. The authors emphasize that group identity can influence life and death decisions, as well as everyday choices, from vaccination to hiring practices, and even attractiveness based on political alignment.

15:03

🤕 The Pain of Exclusion and Its Impact on Brain Activity

Studies reveal that exclusion from a group can trigger physical pain, as brain activity in areas associated with physical pain increases when individuals feel left out. This neural response underscores the deep human need to belong and the discomfort of not being part of a group. The script highlights the automatic and often unconscious nature of categorizing people into groups and the tendency to favor in-group members over out-group members.

20:04

🏅 The Dichotomy of Group Loyalty: Manchester United Fans and Helping Behavior

A study involving Manchester United fans demonstrates how group identity can influence behavior, showing that fans were more likely to help an injured person wearing a Manchester United shirt than a rival team's shirt. This study, along with others, indicates that group allegiance can significantly affect how we treat others, with in-group members receiving more assistance and empathy than out-group members.

25:05

🎭 The Fluidity of Group Identity and Its Impact on Behavior

The script discusses the fluid nature of group identity, which can change based on context and situation. It uses examples of political canvassing and the shifting allegiances of a couple to illustrate how quickly group identity can change and influence behavior. The discussion also touches on the historical origins of political 'left' and 'right' groupings and the hostility faced by those who refuse to take a side.

🏦 The Evolution of Group Targeting: From Sicilian Fishermen to Bank of America

The episode concludes with a discussion on the application of group dynamics in marketing. It uses the story of Amadeo Giannini, who founded the Bank of Italy and later Bank of America, to illustrate the power of targeting a specific group and then expanding the offering as the brand grows. The narrative highlights the importance of positioning and how creating products for well-defined groups can lead to success, as seen in the examples of Costa Coffee and the Bank of America's initial targeting of Sicilian immigrants.

Keywords

💡Polarization

Polarization refers to the division of a society or group into opposing sides with strong convictions, often leading to a lack of willingness to compromise. In the video, it is discussed as a phenomenon that has been increasing in various aspects of life, including political, social, and even personal relationships. The script provides the example of how parents' political affiliations can influence their approval of their children's choice of a spouse, illustrating the pervasive impact of polarization.

💡Group Identity

Group identity is the sense of belonging to a particular social group, which can influence an individual's behavior, attitudes, and decisions. The video emphasizes the psychological benefits of group identity, such as self-esteem and a sense of belonging. It also discusses the phenomenon of identity fusion, where individuals are so strongly connected to their group that they prioritize group loyalty over self-preservation, as illustrated by the example of the B-17 bomber crew.

💡Behavioral Science

Behavioral science is an interdisciplinary field that studies human behavior, decision-making, and the effects of social interactions. In the context of the video, behavioral science is used to understand why people form groups, how group membership affects individual behavior, and the consequences of polarization. The script mentions Alex Chesterfield, who has a master's degree in cognitive and decision science, indicating the application of behavioral science to the topic.

💡Cognitive Bias

Cognitive bias refers to the systematic errors in thinking that occur when people process and interpret information in a way that is biased towards certain preconceptions. The video discusses 'groupishness' as a cognitive bias that influences people to favor their in-group and discriminate against out-groups. Examples from the script include how political affiliations can affect hiring decisions and the course of medical treatment recommended by doctors.

💡Social Influence

Social influence is the process by which an individual's thoughts, feelings, and behaviors are affected by the actions, opinions, or presence of others. The video uses the plane crash incident in Africa as a dramatic example of social influence, where passengers' panic and collective movement due to the presence of a crocodile caused the plane to crash, demonstrating the power of group behavior on individual actions.

💡Identity Fusion

Identity fusion is a psychological concept where individuals feel so connected to their group that they are willing to sacrifice their own well-being for the group's sake. The video script describes a World War II scenario where bomber crew members chose to die with their trapped comrade rather than abandon him, highlighting the extreme loyalty that can result from identity fusion.

💡Out-group

An out-group refers to a group with which an individual does not identify and may hold negative attitudes towards. The video discusses how people are more likely to help members of their in-group compared to out-group members, as demonstrated by the study where Manchester United fans were less likely to help a fallen jogger wearing a rival team's shirt.

💡In-group Bias

In-group bias is the tendency to favor one's own group members over others. The video explains that this bias can manifest in various ways, such as in the workplace, in media consumption, and in social interactions. The Manchester United fans' behavior in the study is a clear example of in-group bias, where they were more inclined to help someone perceived as part of their group.

💡Exclusion

Exclusion is the act of keeping someone out of a group or denying them access to a particular activity. The video references studies showing that exclusion can cause physical discomfort and is associated with brain activity linked to experiencing physical pain, indicating the deep human need to belong and the negative effects of being left out.

💡Marketing Positioning

Marketing positioning is the strategy of designing a company's offerings to occupy a distinct place in the target market's mind, relative to competitors. The video discusses how understanding group identity and allegiances can inform marketing strategies, emphasizing the importance of targeting specific groups rather than trying to appeal to everyone. The example of Costa Coffee's campaign targeting coffee lovers illustrates successful marketing positioning.

💡Group Allegiance

Group allegiance refers to the loyalty and attachment an individual feels towards a particular group. The video script mentions how quickly group allegiances can change behavior, as seen in the study where participants' attitudes towards a trivia player varied based on whether they were told the player would join their team or a rival team.

Highlights

The 2010 plane crash in Africa was caused by passengers panicking due to a loose crocodile on the plane, demonstrating the powerful influence of group behavior.

The power of groups was explored with guests Laura Osborne and Alex Chesterfield, who discussed the science behind why people conform to group norms.

Polarization today extends beyond politics into various aspects of life, including who we hire and marry, indicating its pervasive impact on society.

An increase in parental concern about their children marrying someone from a different political background reflects growing societal divisions.

Our ancient capacity to form groups has psychological benefits, such as self-esteem and a sense of belonging, which are crucial for our well-being.

Identity fusion, a strong sense of oneness with a group, can lead to extreme behaviors, including sacrificing self-preservation for group loyalty.

Group identity can influence various decisions, from medical treatment to hiring practices, highlighting its broad implications.

Studies show that political stances can alter perceptions and decisions in non-political contexts, such as child vaccination and job candidate evaluation.

The pain of being excluded from a group can be physically felt, with brain activity in areas associated with physical pain observed during social exclusion.

Group identity can change quickly based on context, as demonstrated by the behavior of football fans towards an injured person wearing different team colors.

Allegiance to a group can make individuals less flexible in thought, as shown by the correlation between party allegiance and inflexibility of thought.

Group identity is fluid and can shift based on the most salient identity in a given context, affecting behavior and attitudes.

The historical example of the French Revolution illustrates the origins of political tribalism and the hostility faced by those who do not conform to group allegiances.

Positioning is crucial in marketing; products targeted at specific groups are more likely to succeed than those trying to appeal to everyone.

Case studies of Costa Coffee and Bank of America demonstrate the success of targeted marketing strategies based on group identity and needs.

The evolution of Bank of America and Visa shows how successful brands can expand from serving a specific group to a broader audience while maintaining their appeal.

Transcripts

in 2010 a plane crashed in africa

flying from kinshesher the capital of

the democratic republic of congo to

bandundu a town in the east

as the plane came into land it crashed

killing all but one on board

no one could figure out what caused the

crash onlookers said they saw the plane

drop out of the sky without reason the

engine didn't seem to halt the weather

was perfect

both of the pilots were fully qualified

to fly

there wasn't an obvious reason why the

plane crashed the crash investigators

were at a dead end

they couldn't figure out the cause

that was until they interviewed the one

survivor

see the survivor was able to explain the

whole incident there wasn't a mechanical

failure or a mistake from the pilot

no

instead it was human instinct

one kilometer away from landing a young

crocodile which was taken on board the

plane and stored on board the plane

got loose from its cage the steward upon

seeing the crocodile ran to the front of

the plane to tell the pilot

now imagine you're in the plane you see

a crocodile you see a steward running

from the front of the plane to the back

what are you gonna do

probably you're gonna panic

then imagine all 16 other passengers on

board start panicking as well some start

getting out of their seats a couple

start running to the front to get away

from the crocodile chances are you're

gonna follow their actions and according

to one survivor that's what everyone did

they saw the crocodile they saw the

steward running and saw everyone else

getting up and just like that everyone

on the plane got out of their seats and

moved to the front of the plane that

threw the weight off at a crucial point

as the engines were powering down it

tipped the plane forward and caused it

to crash and it's a deadly reminder of

the power of groups

see we follow the actions of others

whether that's looking into a shop

window

or when running away from danger hello

folks i'm phil agnew host of nudge the

science of marketing podcast in this

episode we'll explore the power of

groups and how we can't help but follow

the crowd to explore the topic i'm

joined by laura osborne a professional

communicator spokesperson and podcaster

with a background in public affairs and

government communication laura is

currently corporate affairs director at

london first joining laura is alex

chesterfield alex is a behavioural

scientist with a master's degree in

cognitive and decision science she

currently works in financial services

leading a team of behavioral scientists

to help get better outcomes for

employees and customers for four years

she was elected a councillor in guilford

for the conservative party alex laura

and their co-author alison goldsworthy

recently published their book polls

apart the book looks at the science

behind why people turn against each

other and proven tactics for bringing

folks together in today's episode we

look at how being part of a group

influences us why being left out hurts

and how we can't stop following others

but to kick off i ask the authors of

poles apart if we've become more

polarized over time well thanks very

much phil

it's it is a question we've spent a lot

of time thinking about polarization it

ebbs and flows over time so it's very

tricky to say obviously not having a

comparative data set for all history

that we are definitely more polarized

now than we've ever been before but what

we can definitely see from the research

that we've done is that the way our

polarization manifests

is a bit different today it spills out

into more areas of our lives which um

you know includes

who we hire who we marry you know and

increasingly the friends that we have so

it it does have these sort of um

these spillover effects that aren't

limited to the political world which is

often where we think about polarization

and i think one of the things that you

know we've been quite pains to say is

it's not just how divided we are on

individual issues it's that effective

side of polarization which is how do our

group memberships and the partisan

labels we attach just make us feel you

know and how do we then behave

as a result so there's a slightly

terrifying stat actually it says if you

go back somewhere like 30 years only

five percent of americans cared whether

their child married someone of a

difficult different political persuasion

but today nearly half of republicans and

about a third of democrats say they'd be

displeased if their child married a

member of the opposing party and so you

know when you see those sorts of

consequences and you know the way that

we divide over all kinds of um big and

small things along those group lines

that the alarm bells that ring for us

are you know what does this mean in

business what does this mean except for

who we're hired how aware we are of our

biases and you know those consequences

really are quite significant

polarization does seem to be getting

worse today half of all republicans

would be displeased if their child

married a democrat

thirty years ago only five percent would

have been displeased

it's also clear that the groups we

identify with change our own views

whether that's your view on a job

candidate or your views on your

daughter's boyfriend but why do groups

change the way we think and why do we

regularly form into groups i think the

first thing the first point that we

should start off with and remind

listeners is that we we do have this

ancient capacity to form groups

and although polarization often sounds

very negative negative i think it's

roots at least psychologically you've

got to remember that being part of a

group and obviously the earliest groups

often are families brings many um

physical benefits so getting food

finding a partner and building things so

many many physical benefits but also

psychological benefits so feeling like

we belong to a group or to a community

makes us feel really good

individually it gives us a lot of

self-esteem and it generally feels nice

so we have this that's the first point

to remember is that we have this ancient

capacitance to form groups so in many

ways our brains have evolved to think

as part of small groups so we want to

fit in um and we want to fill up we

belong and as i said earlier this feels

really good so we talk about in the book

um i'm sure many listeners will remember

uh the film clueless i know laura and i

are big fans growing up in the 90s we're

going to give away our age now but think

about tai

and how she she changed um quite

considerably to fit in with the group

and i think one of the key things that

we found was that once we're part of the

group we don't just take on its views

and outlook we become emotionally tied

to it

and we came across one one group and one

example sorry of where loyalty to the

group may

even overtake our our very human desires

for uh to live

kind of self self preservation so

this example was in sebastian junga's

war um an example he described where

four members of a b-17

bomber crew

formed a pact that they would never ever

abandon one another and no matter how

awful the situation was and how bad

things got in battle anyway not long

afterwards making this pact their their

plane was shelled um and went into a

kind of free fall

um so the pilot ordered immediately

everyone to parachute to safety

but as the the crew you know were

putting on their parachutes getting

everything you know ready to drop out

the plane they discovered that one of

their team

um

it's one of the people that made the

pact was trapped and there wasn't any

time to release him given the plane was

hurtling out of the sky

so remembering this these three members

of the pact

they all aborted their plans to

parachute to safety and they remained on

the plane and they all all died

and what academics describe what

happened here because you might be

sitting there you know cold i guess cold

listens like you're thinking why would

anyone ever do that and academics have

described this phenomena is almost this

very strong like visceral sense of

oneness with a group for something

called identity fusion and this is

obviously quite an extreme example the

one that sebastian describes from world

war ii but you see it also in like

violent gangs terrorist groups and even

even for example groups of traders where

they're artificially distorting

stock prices and what all those groups

have in common is where group membership

is not so much a means to an end so for

example to feel good but group

membership is the end in itself but the

power of groups doesn't just affect us

in life and death decisions like the b17

bomber example in fact the effects of

groupishness as laura and alex call the

bias in the book tends to impact people

in all sorts of ways

laura and alex cite studies that have

identified that our political stance can

change our decisions on all sorts of

topics

for example you are more likely to

vaccinate your child

if the presidential candidate you voted

for is elected

if you're a doctor the course of

treatment you recommend to a patient can

be influenced by your own politics and

perception of the patient's likely

political leanings if you're a manager

the same consideration will shape your

hiring decisions we're also more likely

to listen to those with the same

political views we pick media platforms

based on whether they align with our

political views and we're even more

likely to find people who support the

same political party as us

more attractive than the average person

now there are plenty of reasons why we

form groups laura and alex detail that

in the book but ultimately it is to

satisfy a deep need to belong this need

is amplified by the pain we feel when

we're not in a group

being left out isn't nice fomo is

painful but not just in a metaphorical

sense no missing out can physically hurt

at least according to some studies

you can see again the same effect when

researchers look at our brain activity

this was this was one study i wanted to

highlight was done by a bunch of

researchers at the university of

california in la

and they use something called a

functional magnetic resource imaging

scanners an fmri scanner which looks at

measures brain activity to track neural

responses to exclusions so when people

are excluded or shut out from a group

what happens

and what they found was that when people

are shy out of a group um the brain they

saw heightened brain activity in two

specific areas of the brain that are

normally associated with the experience

of physical pain

so how they interpreted this finding was

that it literally hurts

not

not to belong so you can see in many

ways it makes it makes perfect sense

that we um that we the way that we

change the way we think

um because of the groups that we

identify with

we change the way we think because of

the groups we identify with

not being part of groups can cause us to

feel pain akin to real physical pain

but does being part of our group

actually explain our actions not just

the way we think but our actual actions

does it change the way we behave

here's a fascinating study that looked

into just that one of the things i think

we were surprised at when researching

the book was just how differently we

treat each other not always not always

fully consciously when they're not part

of our group

and also the automaticity that makes

sense as in the fastness or how we

automatically categorize people into

groups and i think one of the

one of the the key insights from decades

of social science research is that once

an us and them distinction has been made

we will always favor us and by the same

token disfavor then i think one of the

the best studies that illustrates this

is

a study done on football fans by

professor mark levine and his colleagues

who were then at the time of doing the

study at lancaster university

so they they recruited a bunch of

manchester united fans and they invited

the fans to complete

two questionnaires um and the aim of the

of the surveys was to try and um

increase their sense of allegiance that

they felt to the team obviously the the

participants didn't know that was the

purpose of the survey so they were asked

questions like why did they support

manchester united how long have they

supported manchester united four et

cetera anyway so once they filled in the

survey the football fan manchester

united fans were then asked to walk to

another building to watch a short film

on football

and as they left

you know building one they happened to

see a jogger

slip and fall down you know yelling

crying grabbing his ankle etc and

shouting out in pain and this is where

again unbeknown to the football fans the

participants the experiment actually

started

so in some conditions or in some uh

let's just say in some instances the

jogger who was

a kind of confederate so what that means

he was he was in on the experiment he

was working for the professors

in some instances that that fake

jogger the fake jogger wore a manchester

united shirt

and in doing so signaled himself as a

member of the manchester united in group

you know one of one of us

but sometimes in other conditions that

jogger the fake jogger would be wearing

a liverpool shirt so again mocking

himself as an out group member so one of

them

and sometimes in the third condition

the fake jogger appeared in a plane

unbranded in a sports shirt

now the football fans uh the

participants were you know that had been

very prime to the questionnaires they

had to feel so that identity was very

salient very top of mind as they walk

from one building to the other

and the key question that professor

levine was trying to answer was what

proportion of times would

the fans stop and help a fellow human uh

on the floor after tripping up with the

shirt that they were wearing make any

difference well to put it bluntly is to

say the results were unequivocal so when

when the person

was wearing a manchester united shirt

92 percent of participants stopped to

help them but when it was a liverpool

fan and again for any any people who

want me to football that is a rival team

only about 30 stepped in so that's a

huge a huge uh difference between the 90

when they were wearing a manchester

united fan now i'm just going to pause

here to reiterate that stat

92 of fans stopped when the injured

jogger was part of their group and yet

only 30

stopped when the jogger was part of a

rival group

it seems we simply become nastier and

less helpful with those who aren't part

of our group

and before you go and blame that all on

manchester united fans for being

unhelpful and rude consider this other

study cited in polls apart now in this

study over 700 u.s citizens were

questioned about their political views

the task asks participants to indicate

their relative feeling of attachment to

republicans and democrats by clicking

and dragging images of themselves and

the two parties closer together or

further apart now the results showed a

clear correlation between inflexibility

of thought and intensity of party

allegiance in other words participants

on both the extreme left and the extreme

right well they both displayed this

reduced flexibility of thought it

doesn't matter if you're liberal or

conservative if you show a stronger

allegiance to your group you'll have

less flexibility in your thoughts

so it is obviously unlikely that only

man united fans would fail to help

joggers it realistically will be anyone

who has a strong group identity who

comes across someone from outside that

group

but how rigid is group identity can we

only belong to one group at a single

time

laura and alex don't think so they are

fairly certain that our group identity

is far more fluid than we think so

that's one of the main i guess main

points is that our identity about how we

think about who we are is very flexible

whatever identity is most salient and by

that i mean you know most top of mind

depends on the context of the situation

that we are in at any one moment

and so we describe actually in the book

it's just like there's an example of a

couple

sitting in the kitchen

and their kid is ill

and they are arguing about who has to

you know take time off work the next day

to look after their ill child

the father he's he's kind of saying to

the the women well you know mums are

more i meant to just be looking at men

to look up to their children more when

they're sick that's kind of what women

are here to do and then

when when that argument starts they are

referring to themselves as part of a

larger group i.e men and women and that

causes tension and conflict and

hostility between them naturally as it

would

and then we describe where they're

having the argument the kitchen table

then they get a knock at the door and

it's a political canvasser

and it's someone from an opposing party

and in that moment the context has

changed the situation has changed and

actually rather than being members of

opposing groups are you male and female

with all the kind of stereotypes and the

beliefs that are involved with thinking

about ourselves through that gender lens

is they then actually become one of the

same identity which is their political

kind of book whether they're labeled

conservative let's just say they're

their labor and they identify as part of

the same group and then they're united

and then the them you know the other is

the canvasser on the on the doorstep and

that hostility intention dissolves

between them and instead transfers

to the doorstep

[Music]

hey folks just a quick pause in the

podcast here to tell you about something

which i announced to all nudge email

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so since launching nudge three years ago

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nudge vault is a community containing a

hundred marketing science tips from the

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[Music]

it's clear that our allegiances to

groups can change quickly even during

the time it takes to just have a

conversation

see it's the context we're in and the

groups we associate with in that context

that ultimately change our behavior

former british prime minister gordon

brown knows this all too well

in a face-to-face meeting with one of

his party's supporters back in 2010

he was filmed having a candid

conversation debating about the economy

the tv cameras were on him he was in a

public setting and he was having a

discussion with this supporter so he

acted in a certain way

however a few minutes later that context

changed he got in his car away from the

cameras away from that supporter and

suddenly his behavior changed as well

his microphone unbeknown to him was

still on and he was recorded saying that

was a disaster they should have never

put me with that woman whose idea was

that ridiculous she's just a bigoted

woman

it shows how quickly groups can change

behavior

in one setting you might act a certain

way whilst in another you might act

completely different there are some more

studies in poles apart that showed this

and really surprised me

one study about group allegiances shows

how our behaviors change dramatically

even with groups that we might have the

slightest allegiance to in what has now

become regarded as something of a

classic study the israeli social

psychologist ziva kunder told volunteers

that they would be playing a history

trivia game to get the hang of it they

were told that they would observe

someone else let's call this person jane

play the game before they began now half

the group was told that jane would join

their team and the other half were told

that jane would join the rival team

now jane was in fact astute she was

set up to play the game perfectly and

answer every question correctly

what the researchers found was that

attitudes towards jane changed

based on group allegiances those who

were told that jane would be joining

their team praised her skills her

quality her intelligence those who

thought they would be competing against

jane were far more dismissive when

questioned about her they tended to

attribute her accuracy to luck

both groups saw the exact same

performance

yet individuals in the group came to

opposite conclusions

clearly we are very quick to take sites

quick to change our opinions based on

the group but what happens when we sit

on the fence

alex explain to me how that too can be

met with hostility

just to add to that it's a really

interesting historical example

this wasn't a scientific study

but again as part of the book of the

co-author ali uh was researching where

the terms left and right come from you

know which are very rooted in the kind

of political tribalism and it was from

the french revolution

i guess it's france said on the brink of

revolution back in

late 1700s

imagine you had the clergy the nobility

and other people gathered

around and they were

either they either sat on the left or

the right of the royal tennis courts

where they met according to whether they

supported the king

or not did they support the king they

sat on the right or if they wanted

reform they sat on the left

and that's where the left right metaphor

came from seems to have persisted ever

since but there was one guy in this mix

again a member of an ability called i'm

going to get my french pronunciation

wrong the baron d goville

um but he was present at this meeting

he's very sympathetic to the king

but he kept on changing his mind and he

sat in numerous parts of the room to

demonstrate that actually he was a

master of his own opinions and didn't

want to take side but in these

historical records it's noted that he

was condemned to boos from the gallery

so i think the point to take from that

is uh yes it can

it can really pay in many cases to take

to take aside

before we finish i wanted to chat about

how all of this applies to marketing do

these findings tell us anything about

our work

well i think the findings show how

important positioning is

creating a product that tries to appeal

to everyone is just really unlikely to

capture any interest but if you create a

product that is targeted towards a

specific group i.e a product that takes

a side that doesn't sit on the fence

it's far more likely to attract

attention pulsar parts show that we feel

strong allegiances to groups how we copy

the behavior of others in that group so

if you can build something that solves a

problem for a specific group then you're

probably on to a winner now this is

essentially what april dumford taught us

about positioning in episode 48 of nudge

she says that effective positioning is

describing how your product is great at

providing value for something that a

well-defined set of customers cares a

lot about essentially targeting your

offering at a well-defined audience at a

well-defined group is a must for most

marketing campaigns

now two examples of this spring to mind

a few years back costa coffee ran a

campaign that highlighted how seven out

of ten coffee lovers preferred costa to

rival brands like starbucks

the campaign specifically targeted

coffee lovers people who defined

themselves as essentially coffee nerds

that targeting seemed to work sales

increased by 5.5 percent after their

campaign was run according to the

guardian

the other example i wanted to share is

from dave trott's book one plus one

equals three he shares the story of

amadeo gianini a sicilian who emigrated

to san fran in 1904. now giannini knew

that his group which was sicilian

immigrants they needed a bank existing

banks offered really poor deals for

immigrants and sicilians needed a

solution

so he built something for the group a

bank where sicilians would feel welcome

he didn't know anything about

positioning but he knew the name of the

bank should be something that they

specifically trusted that that specific

group would trust so he opened a little

shop front with a big sign outside

saying bank of italy fishermen this is

your bank you couldn't be more specific

with that targeting and by specifically

targeting his group he was showing that

his bank was not just for rich white

people and the sicilian fishermen they

came in their hundreds depositing their

savings

the bank of italy became a success

but the bank of italy kept growing it

was loved so dearly by sicilians that

other immigrants wanted in and soon

americans did too the bank of italy grew

and grew until it became the only

statewide bank across california now it

was time to stop being a bank for just

sicilian fishermen no the bank needed to

be a brand that all u.s citizens could

feel was their bank

the founder needed to reposition so in

1930 he changed the name to bank of

america

now it felt like it had stature it felt

like it had history and tradition

and bank of america grew because of this

positioning it grew so fast that in a

few decades it would become the second

largest bank in the entire usa

and then in 1958 they launched the

world's first credit card it was called

the bank america it essentially created

the credit card market and around the

entire world and that meant that the

card wasn't just for americans so it

needed to rebrand again so bank

americard renamed itself to visa and

today visa has 38 of the world's credit

card market it handles 62 billion

transactions a year amounting to 4.4

trillion dollars now giannini didn't try

to build something for the world he

started with a very well-defined group

and built something specifically for

them

when he realized it could help more

people he expanded the offering giannini

understood the power of groups and used

this to his advantage

[Music]

that is all for today folks i hope you

have enjoyed today's episode laura and

alex will be back again soon with

another episode on nudge and in that

episode we tackle a topic that i can't

wait to talk about in that episode we'll

discuss how to change someone's mind now

they don't share bs tactics that you

might expect from a run-of-the-mill

linkedin guru no they share the real

science behind changing someone's mind

it is a must listen so make sure you're

subscribed to nudge wherever you listen

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thank you again for listening to this

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in two weeks cheers

[Music]