Dave Smith on Idea that Israeli Leader Netanyahu Propped Up Hamas
Summary
TLDRThe transcript discusses the complex political dynamics between Israel and Palestine, focusing on the role of Benjamin Netanyahu and the alleged strategy to bolster Hamas to prevent a Palestinian state. It highlights eyewitness accounts of Netanyahu's statements, the influence of the Israeli lobby in the US, and the challenges faced by US presidents in pursuing a two-state solution. The speaker criticizes Netanyahu's manipulation of peace processes and his attempts to involve the US in regional conflicts for Israel's benefit.
Takeaways
- 😯 Israel's strategy to prop up Hamas is suggested as a way to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, according to a quote attributed to Benjamin Netanyahu.
- 🗣️ The quote by Netanyahu was reported by a Jerusalem Post reporter and confirmed by multiple eyewitnesses, although it was not recorded on videotape.
- 📰 Numerous Israeli newspapers, including Haaretz and The Times of Israel, have reported on Israel's support for Hamas, indicating it is not just based on a single quote.
- 💵 Qatar was reportedly sending millions of dollars to Gaza to support the Hamas government, with Israel's knowledge and encouragement.
- 🕊️ Israel has a history of promising a Palestinian state as part of peace agreements, but these promises have not been fulfilled.
- 🤝 The Oslo Accords were a significant step towards peace, with Israel again promising a Palestinian state, but the process has been stalled.
- 💼 Neoconservatives like Richard Perle and David Wurmser advised Netanyahu to break from the peace process and instead focus on agreements with the broader Arab world.
- 🔄 The 'Clean Break' strategy proposed by Perle and Wurmser included regime change in Iraq, which later became a policy under George W. Bush's administration.
- 🤔 There is a significant influence of the Israeli lobby in American politics, which affects U.S. foreign policy and the ongoing support for Israel.
- 🇺🇸 U.S. presidents have consistently sought a two-state solution but have been unable to achieve it despite America's significant financial support for Israel.
- 🎥 Netanyahu has been recorded discussing how he undermined the peace process by inserting 'poison pills' into agreements, showing manipulation of the negotiation process.
Q & A
What was the context of the discussion about Israel's alleged support for Hamas?
-The discussion was about whether Israel intentionally supported Hamas as a strategy to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, as it would allow Israel to claim they have no partner for peace.
What is the significance of the quote attributed to Benjamin Netanyahu regarding Hamas?
-The quote suggests a strategy to maintain power for Hamas as a means to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, thereby avoiding Israel's obligation to fulfill promises made during peace negotiations.
How was the quote by Benjamin Netanyahu about Hamas first reported?
-The quote was first reported by a Jerusalem Post reporter after an eyewitness from Netanyahu's political party, Likud, confirmed it. It was later corroborated by two other individuals present at the meeting.
Why might the lack of a videotape recording of Netanyahu's quote be significant?
-The lack of a videotape recording could cast doubt on the authenticity of the quote, as it relies on the accounts of eyewitnesses rather than direct evidence.
What is the 'Clean Break' strategy and how does it relate to Israel's foreign policy?
-The 'Clean Break' strategy was a proposal made by Richard Perle and David Wurmser to Benjamin Netanyahu in 1996, suggesting that Israel should seek agreements with the broader Arab world to avoid making concessions to the Palestinians. It influenced Netanyahu's approach to foreign policy.
How did the 'Clean Break' strategy influence U.S. foreign policy decisions?
-The strategy's authors later became influential figures in George W. Bush's administration, and their ideas may have contributed to decisions like the invasion of Iraq, which they had advocated for in the 'Clean Break' document.
What role did the Oslo Accords play in the peace process between Israel and Palestine?
-The Oslo Accords in the early 1990s were agreements that set the stage for a peace process with the promise of eventually granting Palestinians their own state, marking a significant step towards resolving the conflict.
What was the significance of Yasser Arafat's recognition of Israel's right to exist in 1988?
-Yasser Arafat's recognition of Israel's right to exist was a major shift from his previous involvement in terrorism and marked a willingness to compromise, which was essential for the peace process and the Oslo Accords.
How has the Israeli lobby influenced U.S. support for Israel?
-The Israeli lobby, along with the support of Evangelical Christians who believe in the religious significance of Israel, has been a significant factor in maintaining strong U.S. support for Israel, even when policies differ from U.S. interests.
What is the controversy surrounding Benjamin Netanyahu's testimony before Congress in 2002?
-Netanyahu testified that overthrowing Saddam Hussein would lead to democracy in the region, which some critics argue was misleading given the subsequent instability. He also advocated for preemptive attacks on Iran.
What does the transcript suggest about the relationship between Israel and the U.S. regarding foreign policy decisions?
-The transcript suggests that despite U.S. financial support for Israel, there is a complex dynamic where U.S. presidents have struggled to influence Israeli policy, partly due to the influence of the Israeli lobby and domestic political considerations.
Outlines
🕵️♂️ Controversy Over Israel's Support for Hamas
The paragraph discusses a contentious debate about whether Israel's strategy included supporting Hamas to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. It mentions a quote attributed to Benjamin Netanyahu, suggesting that bolstering Hamas would maintain power and serve as an excuse to avoid creating a Palestinian state. The quote was reportedly made in a closed-door meeting of his political party, Likud, and was later reported by multiple sources, including a Jerusalem Post reporter and confirmed by three eyewitnesses from the party. The paragraph also highlights the broader narrative of Israeli leaders' quotes and actions that align with this strategy, as reported by various Israeli newspapers and international sources, including The New York Times.
🏛️ Historical Context of Israel-Palestine Peace Process
This paragraph delves into the historical context of the peace process between Israel and Palestine. It starts with the Camp David Accords in 1979, where Israel promised to eventually grant a state to the Palestinians. The Oslo Accords in the early 90s are mentioned, highlighting the peace process steps and the promise of a Palestinian state. The paragraph then discusses Benjamin Netanyahu's rise to power in 1996 and the 'clean break' strategy proposed by Richard Perle and David Wurmser, advocating for a new approach that involves making deals with the broader Arab world, thus avoiding concessions to the Palestinians. The strategy also suggested regime change in Iraq for Israel's security, which later influenced U.S. foreign policy post-9/11.
🌍 Influence of Lobbying and Foreign Policy on Israel-U.S. Relations
The final paragraph examines the influence of lobbying and foreign policy on the relationship between Israel and the U.S. It touches on the power of the Israeli lobby in shaping U.S. policy, the role of evangelical Christians in supporting Israel for religious reasons, and the difficulty U.S. presidents have faced in achieving a two-state solution despite their intentions. The paragraph also references a video where Netanyahu allegedly boasts about sabotaging the peace process by inserting conditions that only Israel could define, and his advocacy for preemptive attacks on Iraq and Iran, suggesting that Israel has been instrumental in pushing the U.S. into wars that serve its interests.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Jogan Experience
💡Benjamin Netanyahu
💡Hamas
💡Two-State Solution
💡Neoconservatives
💡Clean Break
💡Israel Lobby
💡Camp David Accords
💡Oslo Accords
💡Yasser Arafat
💡Evangelical Christians
Highlights
Discussion about whether Israel's strategy involved propping up Hamas and the controversy surrounding this claim.
The quote attributed to Benjamin Netanyahu suggesting support for Hamas to prevent a Palestinian state.
Netanyahu's quote was reported by a Jerusalem Post reporter and later confirmed by multiple eyewitnesses.
Criticism of Netanyahu's policy to bolster Hamas to maintain power and avoid a two-state solution.
The New York Times report on Israeli intelligence agents facilitating funds to Hamas.
The historical context of the peace process and Israel's promise to give Palestinians a state.
Yasser Arafat's rejection of terrorism and recognition of Israel's right to exist.
The Oslo Accords and the renewed promise from Israel to eventually grant a Palestinian state.
1996 'Clean Break' strategy proposed to Netanyahu advocating for new Israeli foreign policy.
The influence of neoconservatives like Richard Perle and David Wurmser on Israeli policy.
Netanyahu's testimony before Congress in 2002 advocating for the overthrow of Saddam Hussein.
The claim that Israel has been trying to shape its strategic environment by influencing U.S. foreign policy.
The role of the Israeli lobby in American politics and its impact on U.S. support for Israel.
Difficulties faced by U.S. presidents in achieving a two-state solution despite their intentions.
The influence of Evangelical Christians on U.S. policy towards Israel.
Benjamin Netanyahu's candid comments about manipulating the peace process and U.S. officials.
Netanyahu's advocacy for preemptive attacks on Iran, in addition to Iraq.
Criticism of Netanyahu's actions and the unconditional U.S. support for Israel despite policy disagreements.
Transcripts
the jogan experience you said what about
the the didn't Israel like prop up Hamas
wasn't that part of their strategy for a
while and
he I'll give him the benefit of the
doubt and maybe he just doesn't know
about that detail of this as much
because I if not he was kind of being
dishonest but he but maybe he just
wasn't familiar with all of this stuff
but he kind of went you said that and
then he kind of dismissed it by saying
well um there's a quote that's
attributed to Netanyahu but it wasn't on
videotape so like we don't B essentially
being like we don't really know if
Netanyahu said this or not and then just
kind of moved on to the conversation
away from that but I find this I found
this in all of my debates that I've done
on this and I've done like eight debates
on this since the war broke out
everybody on the pro-israeli side does
not want to Grapple with that point
because it really is like a it's a
narrative shattering Point once you
acknowledge it but so right but well but
if it isn't on videotape he has a point
as well well here well let me okay so
here's the deal right so the quote that
he's referring to was a quote by
Benjamin Netanyahu it was something
along the lines of anybody who wants to
thwart the Palestinians having their own
State needs to support propping up Hamas
bolstering Hamas transferring money to
them to maint right so there was a quote
like this Hamas maintains power right so
Hamas maintains power so that they never
we never have to give them a state
because we can look to the International
Community we can look to Liberal Jews in
is Israel and say look we have no
partner for peace they're a crazy
terrorist group so we we never have to
make a deal we don't have to fulfill our
promise that we would give attributed to
him so basically this quote particularly
okay this was at a closed door meeting
with the lud party so this is Benjamin
netanyahu's political party his
far-right party that's in power right
now in Israel so it's true that this was
a closed door meeting and that it's not
on tape um so what happened is as far as
I could tell the the first person who
reported this I believe was uh a a lady
who's a reporter for the uh Jerusalem
Post and then it's been run in a bunch
of other newspapers since then so what
basically what happened is an eyewitness
who was there at the meeting so another
lud party member in Benjamin netanyahu's
political party came and told her that
he said this and then she went and
checked with somebody else who was there
and he also confirmed that like yes
Benjamin anahu said this and then a
third person who was also at the meeting
came out and wrote about it in his book
or wrote about it in another newspaper
article or something like that so you
had three eyewitnesses from within his
own political party who confirmed that
he said this now take that for what it's
worth I think that's reasonably strong
that three eyewitnesses all in his
political party as long as they weren't
trying to get rid of him because you can
get more than three people to say that
Donald Trump was in collusion with
Russia sure so even even say if you
don't trust
them Coleman acted as if that's what the
entire case is built off of which is
just not true at all it's not just this
one Benjamin Netanyahu quote it's dozens
and dozens of quotes from Israeli
leaders all throughout the political
Spectrum there's been reporting on this
done by almost every major Israeli uh
newspaper haret Times of Israel The
Times of Israel on October 8th had a
piece by tall Schneider which was how
Ben L uh excuse me how netanyahu's
support for Hamas just blew up in his
face it it was the next day and because
every even critics like uh ahud Barack
who was the former Prime Minister he's a
labor party he's a Critic of Benjamin
Netanyahu so he was a Critic of this
plan to prop up Hamas but it's totally
uncontroversial that this was their plan
the New York Times uh just ran a piece
um I think it was late last year it
might have been early this year um where
they talked about how two weeks before
October 7th Benjamin Netanyahu sent the
head of the Mad to Cutter because funds
going into Hamas had slowed down and he
sent them in there to make sure the
funds continued it's the case for this
is overwhelming it's not like relying on
one yeah here you
go yeah for years the qari government
had been s am I saying that right is
that I you say it Qatari I think is Kari
government had been sending millions of
dollars a month to Gaza trip money that
helped prop up the Hamas government
there Benjamin presid prime minister
Benjamin nahu Netanyahu of Israel not
only tolerated those payments he had
encouraged them according to times
Israeli intelligence agency agents
rather travel to Goda with a Qatari
official carrying suitcases filled with
cash suitcases like a mafia movie to
disperse money retired Israeli General
schomo Braum describe the logic of
netanyahu's position one effective way
to present a two-state solution is to
divide prevent prevent prevent prevent a
two-state solution is to divide between
the Gaza Strip and the West Bank if the
exist Hamas ruled Gaza then the
Palestinian Authority a compromis com
comprador comprador government is that
you say
it comprador I don't even know what that
is comprador government with a tenuous
hold on the West Bank would be further
weakened this according to Braum would
allow net Yahoo to say I have no partner
and so that's okay so that's essentially
the point there right he can say that he
can say I have no partner for peace
which is the Israeli line that they like
to use so basically okay in
1979 the EGP I and the Israelis met at
Camp David and that's when they worked
out their peace now their peace also
just involved basically that the US
would pay them both off we'd give them
both three billion doar a year in
perpetuity if they stopped going to war
with each other basically um and part of
that was that Israel promised that they
would
eventually give the Palestinians a state
like it was recognized by DC at the time
this Jimmy Carter that like you got to
give them a state because otherwise this
fighting is going to continue on and on
and on forever so they promised that
eventually they would give it to them
this is the yaser Arafat days this is uh
this is before yaser Arafat was like the
guy um but he he was alive but um but
then in the 80s yaser Arafat uh
basically rejected terrorism he had been
uh involved in terrorism before that he
rejected terrorism and he recognized
Israel I think it was in 1988 he
recognized Israel's right to exist under
1967 borders so basically Israel has the
right to exist but but we have the right
to Gaza and the West Bank the ultimate
of compromises from the Palestinian
perspective because you know a lot of
their more hardcore guys are like no all
of this was ours we shouldn't have lost
any of it and now even the original us
partition plan which was rejected by the
Arabs for you know fairly good reasons
um they rejected it because it gave
55% to the Jews and only or 56% to the
Jews and only 44% to the Palestinians
and they were like but we're like 90% of
the population here like or 90% of the
land owners here or whatever and it's
like this doesn't this isn't fair but
now at this point they're talking about
78% versus 22% so they're accepting 22%
and so that's yaser arfett in the in the
late 80s and then this is what set the
stage for the Oslo uh Accords in the
early 90s and this is like famously when
Bill Clinton has um uh Yak Rabin and
yaser Arafat over and they shake hands
and they sign sign these deals and the
the promise again from Israel was that
we're starting the peace process to
eventually give the Palestinians uh
their state this is the process and
there were steps along this process okay
now in
1996 Benjamin Netanyahu becomes prime
minister now the same year in 1996 there
was uh there's this letter you can find
this on the Internet it's called a clean
break a new strategy for securing the
realm and it was written by Richard
Pearl and David wormser and a couple
other uh uh people of course uh Richard
Pearl and David wormser both went on to
be very influential neoconservatives in
the George W Bush Administration so they
write this letter not to President Bill
Clinton and not to Bob Dole who was
running for president on the Republican
ticket that that year they write this
letter to Benjamin Netanyahu the new
prime minister of Israel and basically
if you read it what they say is that
they're like look look you guys are all
caught up in this peace process thing
where you're talking about giving the
Palestinians land we need a clean break
from that strategy and we're going to
have a whole new strategy and what it's
going to involve is you making
agreements with the broader Arab world
so that you don't have to make this
agreement with the Palestinians you see
the old way of thinking was always that
Israel will never be able to make peace
with the with the broader Muslim world
because they're Furious about what
you're doing to the Palestinians but the
clean break strategy was like no no no
you're going to embark on what
ultimately became the Netanyahu doctrine
that will make it deals with the rest of
the the Arab world so we don't have to
give up this land and you know what they
recommended these two neoconservatives
in 1996 and I bet you'll never guess
this Joe regime change in
Iraq for the security of Israel that was
in
1996 and these people got in George W
Bush's government and after 9/11 those
same people decided that they believed
that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass
destruction and that he was involved in
9911 yeah so there it is uh Israel can
shape its strategic environment in
cooperation with turkey and Jordan by
weakening containing and even rolling
back Syria this effort can focus on
removing Saddam Hussein from power in
Iraq an important Israeli strategic
objective in its own right as a means of
foiling serious Regional Ambitions and
here's where it gets crazy
how much of a how what a great job the
Mad did in compromising people by the
way I mean how much of an effect did
that have in everything you know you can
go full Edie Bravo and think everything
that's happening is because of Epstein
Island and I used to dismiss that a lot
more easy than I do now maybe not
everything umot but certainly someu you
will see this you will see this and and
I'm not saying that that estein is the
sole reason for this type of stuff
there's several different reasons but
you see this all over the the political
sphere and especially amongst like uh
conservative commentators where as soon
as Israel is mentioned whatever their
principles were that they were just
rolling with are like gone yeah like
it's a totally different thing and I get
that I get there's there's a reason for
that too of course like what Jewish
people have been through in the 20th
Cent Cy in the 19th and 18th century
like that that plays a part in that too
um but there's no question that like
it's not just um it's not just uh um
Epstein it's also and I highly recommend
people read uh John mimer has a a great
book called The Israeli Lobby there's
also this Lobby Apec which is a very
very powerful Lobby the truth is that
every US president since with perhaps
the ex exception of trump I'm actually
not sure about that but every US
president since Jimmy Carter I know for
sure excluding Trump every one of them
wanted a two-state solution every single
one of them none of them were able to
get it done even though we bankroll
Israel you'd think it'd be fairly easy
for us to like put pressure on the
country that's relying on us like okay
we'll keep supporting you but you got to
do this nope even when they go over and
say we want to do this they're not able
to do that and part of that is because
of of the lobby part of that is because
there's like tens of millions of
Evangelical Christians in this country
who believe that the Jews have to
control Israel like in some religious
view that Jesus can't come back unless
the Jews control him or something like
that I don't exactly understand it um
they go there on tour they have tours
they go there well and they also and and
the Israeli government's well aware of
that and they're well aware of how much
they benefit from that so they do
everything they can to facilitate that
that belief um white dudes with golf
shirts y That's right they're a big
Force they're a really big block in this
country there's not like a few dozen of
them like there they're willing to throw
some real money at bringing Jesus back
yes they they're very uh that's a very
big deal to them but look like there's
um all of these US presidents they
they've wanted an outcome that they're
unable to get and you can look there's
this one video of Benjamin Netanyahu
where he doesn't know he's being
recorded um and he's speaking openly
about this and it's pretty so he he
openly starts bragging about how he
basically blew up the peace process and
how he like he basically recording on
this yeah oh yeah I mean it's in Hebrew
but there's it's translated and it's
legit it's been translated by like a
whole bunch of different people um and
he's bragging about how he put all of
these poison pills into the peace
agreement like he was like oh yeah sure
we'll we'll Grant I I agreed to grant
them a state but only after uh it was
determined that we could like um Israel
could control like military uh like
important military areas and then he was
like I also snuck it in that only Israel
gets to Define what the military
important areas are and I decided that a
third of the West Bank is that and like
he's bragging about and he's bragging
about how he tricked Bill Clinton and
how easy it is to move the Americans
it's it's wild like there's there's a
lot of power plays at work here and the
only other thing I'll I'll say about
this and it's not just like the
neoconservative the the clean break the
strategy that they wrote for Netanyahu
it's that so in 2002 Benjamin Netanyahu
comes and testifies before uh Congress
as a uh as a regional expert um and he
testifies that like oh yeah no if you
guys overthrow Saddam Hussein democracy
will sweep the region let me tell you I
know something because I know this
region better than anyone else and at
one point Dennis cenage actually grilled
him and got him on record and he goes is
there anybody else that you're
advocating that we preemptively attack
and Netanyahu goes yeah Iran attack them
too so I'm not like I don't hate Israel
like I think Israel is a cool country I
think what they do to the Palestinians
is [ __ ] up and it's inexcusable and
they should stop but I I think Israel is
a cool country there's a lot of great
things about them but like Netanyahu
this guy who's the longest serving prime
minister in Israeli history has been
trying to get America into Wars that are
in his interest that are very clearly
not in ours and the fact that we have to
like unconditionally support Israel even
when our our own democratically elected
president doesn't like the policies that
they're enacting and yet they still get
all of this support
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