What it was like working with Steve Jobs | Tony Fadell and Lex Fridman
Summary
TLDRThe transcript details a reflective conversation about working with Steve Jobs, highlighting his meticulous attention to detail and his ability to inspire and challenge his team without resorting to bullying or demeaning behavior. The speaker discusses the critical nature of making opinion-based decisions in the early stages of revolutionary products, where data is scarce. They emphasize the importance of explaining the rationale behind these decisions to foster team buy-in and understanding of the trade-offs. The discussion also touches on the transition from opinion-based to data-driven decisions as more information becomes available with subsequent product versions. Two significant opinion-based decisions made during the development of the iPhone are explored: the choice of a virtual keyboard over a hardware keyboard and the debate over including a SIM slot. The narrative underscores the balance between relying on gut instincts and leveraging data, and the transformative impact that can result from bold, visionary choices.
Takeaways
- 🚀 **Innovation and Attention to Detail**: Steve Jobs pushed his team relentlessly on details, aiming for perfection in revolutionary products.
- 🤝 **Respectful Critique**: Jobs critiqued work, not people, avoiding public humiliation or demeaning comments to maintain a positive work environment.
- 🤔 **Opinion-Based Decisions**: In the absence of data for version one products, Jobs made decisions based on his vision and understanding of what customers needed.
- 📈 **Data-Driven Evolution**: As products evolved, Jobs used data from previous opinion-based decisions to inform future, more data-driven choices.
- 💡 **Explaining Decisions**: Jobs believed in explaining the 'why' behind decisions to make team members feel part of the process and understand trade-offs.
- 📱 **The iPhone's Keyboard Debate**: A significant opinion-based decision was choosing a virtual keyboard over a hardware one, which was a bold move against the productivity-focused devices of the time.
- 🔄 **Adapting to Data**: When presented with data, even strong opinions could be overturned, as seen with the reintroduction of the SIM slot in the original iPhone.
- 🌐 **Global Market Considerations**: Jobs initially wanted a SIM-free iPhone, but data on global network requirements led to a change in this opinion.
- ⏱️ **Timing is Key**: The timing of introducing new technology is crucial; for example, the shift to eSIMs is happening now, but a SIM-less iPhone would have been too early in 2007.
- 📉 **Overcoming Past Successes**: Sometimes, past success can inhibit future progress. Jobs recognized when to leave behind old technologies for the sake of innovation.
- 🔮 **Vision Over Data**: While data is important, Jobs demonstrated that a clear vision for the future could sometimes be a more powerful guide for decision-making.
Q & A
What was the approach to handling details and challenges when working with Steve Jobs?
-Steve Jobs pushed for attention to detail and challenged the team for the right reasons without bullying or demeaning. He critiqued the work, not the person, and ensured everyone understood the rationale behind decisions to foster a sense of ownership and commitment.
How did Steve Jobs handle decision-making for revolutionary products like the first version of the iPhone?
-Jobs made opinion-based decisions for revolutionary products where data was limited. He emphasized explaining the 'why' behind decisions to involve the team and highlight trade-offs of different options.
What is the difference between data-driven and opinion-based decisions?
-Data-driven decisions are informed by existing data and past performance, while opinion-based decisions are made in the absence of data, often relying on intuition or gut feeling, particularly in the case of version one products.
Why is it challenging for companies to make new innovations and products?
-Companies struggle to innovate because they try to convert opinion-based decisions into data-driven ones to avoid risk, which can lead to paralysis in decision-making and a lack of new product development.
How did Steve Jobs approach the decision of having a virtual keyboard on the iPhone?
-Jobs made an opinion-based decision to use a virtual keyboard instead of a hardware keyboard, recognizing the iPhone as an entertainment and web browsing device where a full-screen experience was more important than typing efficiency.
What was one of the critical opinion-based decisions that changed before the iPhone's launch?
-The decision to omit a SIM slot was reversed after presenting data to Steve Jobs. The team demonstrated the necessity of a SIM slot for global compatibility and the trend towards SIM card usage in data networks.
How did the team convince Steve Jobs to include a SIM slot on the original iPhone?
-The team provided data showing the requirement of SIM cards in various mobile networks worldwide and explained the implications of not having one for the iPhone's global adoption.
What is the significance of timing in making decisions for new technology products?
-Timing is crucial as it determines whether a technology is accepted or becomes obsolete. For instance, the idea of phones without SIM slots is becoming more feasible now with the advent of eSIMs, which were not viable at the time of the original iPhone's launch.
Why is it important for a team to understand and own opinion-based decisions?
-Understanding and owning opinion-based decisions is vital as it allows team members to feel part of the decision-making process, understand the rationale, and be motivated to correct and learn from any mistakes.
How did the development of the first iPhone illustrate the balance between opinions and data?
-The iPhone's development showed that while opinions guide initial decisions, especially for version one products, data can shift those opinions when it becomes available. The inclusion of a SIM slot was an example of data influencing what initially was an opinion-based decision.
What is the role of management consulting in handling opinion-based decisions?
-Management consulting often involves taking opinion-based decisions and structuring them in a way that data can support or refute them, which can then be used to inform future decisions and mitigate risk.
How can companies ensure they are making the right decisions when data is limited?
-Companies should foster a culture that encourages informed risk-taking and learning from mistakes. They should also ensure that decisions are well-articulated, with clear rationale and understanding of potential trade-offs.
Outlines
🚀 Driving Innovation with Steve Jobs
This paragraph discusses the experience of working with Steve Jobs, highlighting his relentless attention to detail and his unique approach to leadership that pushed teams to excel. Jobs was known for critiquing work rather than individuals, making decisions based on a deep understanding of the product and customer needs. He encouraged a culture where the 'why' behind decisions was as important as the decisions themselves, fostering a sense of ownership and understanding among the team. The speaker also touches on the challenges of making opinion-based decisions in the absence of data, especially during the development of revolutionary products like the first iPhone, and how Jobs navigated these challenges.
📱 The iPhone's Evolution and Decision Making
The second paragraph delves into specific decision-making processes during the development of the iPhone. It contrasts the traditional hardware keyboard of the BlackBerry with the iPhone's innovative virtual keyboard, explaining how Jobs' vision for a device centered around entertainment and web browsing led to this opinion-based decision. The paragraph also highlights another crucial decision regarding the inclusion of a SIM card slot, which was initially opposed by Jobs but later reintroduced based on data showing its necessity for global adoption. The narrative emphasizes the balance between gut instincts and data-driven decisions, especially when pioneering new technology, and how sometimes, the past must be overcome for progress to be made.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Steve Jobs
💡Attention to Detail
💡Opinion-Based Decisions
💡Data-Driven Decisions
💡Innovation
💡Version One (V1)
💡Product Differentiation
💡Virtual Keyboard
💡SIM Slot
💡Management Consulting
💡eSIM
Highlights
Working with Steve Jobs pushed people relentlessly on details and challenged them for the right reasons.
Jobs critiqued work, not the person, maintaining a focus on the product rather than demeaning individuals.
When making revolutionary decisions, it's crucial to explain the 'why' behind them to foster team understanding and ownership.
Version 1 products often rely on opinion-based decisions due to the lack of data to inform choices.
Management consulting often involves turning opinion-based decisions into data-driven ones to mitigate risk.
Articulating and owning opinion-based decisions is vital for innovation and product evolution.
Version 1 of products like the iPod and iPhone involved many opinion-based decisions that were not always correct initially.
As more data becomes available with subsequent versions, decisions can be better informed and refined.
The iPhone's development involved significant opinion-based decisions, such as the choice between a hardware and virtual keyboard.
The shift from a hardware keyboard to a virtual keyboard was a bold move that defied market trends and user expectations.
Steve Jobs initially wanted no SIM slot for the iPhone, but data and team input led to its inclusion.
Data can sometimes overrule opinion, especially when it directly impacts the product's functionality and market viability.
The timing of technological innovations is crucial; what may not be feasible today could become standard in the future.
Wi-Fi technology was popularized by Apple, demonstrating how a company can lead and shape technological trends.
The move towards phones without SIM slots and the adoption of eSIMs is an example of how technology evolves.
Sometimes, the wisdom of the past should be overcome for progress to be made, and this requires leaving behind traditional methods.
The importance of understanding that data represents the past, and the future may require different approaches.
Transcripts
what was it like working with steve jobs
what uh aspect of his behavior and
personality
let's say brought out the best in you
pushing you
really pushing you relentless on the
details
challenging you
for the right reasons
it wasn't bullying it wasn't demeaning
he would critique the work not judge the
person at least not in front of them
uh or inside of a you know in front of a
group or anything like that
i know it was really that attention to
detail and
he when he would make a decision you
know there are when you make the first
version of anything something
revolutionary there are a lot of
opinion-based decisions and there's only
one or two people three people who hold
those opinion-based decisions and what
they should be
and
when you have those opinions
and you're trying to work with the team
to
implement those
decisions
you have to really tell the why of those
decisions just don't go do it but why
it's there so you can feel part of that
decision you can understand
what were the trade-offs of the
different other
answers to that opinion right
and say this is the reason why we picked
the what we picked because it's this for
the customer or this for the overall
story what have you so that you felt
really good
because a lot of times most people want
a data driven decision
but with v1s you don't get data
right maybe in a b2b you could a little
bit because you can talk to customers
but you can't do that with a consumer
property one version one b2b business
the business versus what's the
alternative
uh business to consumer vb okay
which is defining centers
yes
so and when you say data-driven
decisions versus what
opinion-based decisions so like gut you
have to use you don't have any
um
you can't fall back on any data or any
previous history to kind of inform you
of what's going on right and so if you
look at most
companies who are paralyzed and cannot
make new innovations and new products
it's because they're trying to turn and
this is what i saw at phillips they're
trying to turn opinion-based decisions
into data-driven decisions so they don't
lose their jobs
so if you look at management consulting
management consulting is all about
taking those opinion-based decisions
giving them to someone else to turn into
data that comes back to them and says
they can blame the management
consultants yeah when something goes
wrong as opposed to it wasn't me
yeah right
when you need to have to tell that story
you have to understand that especially
v1 you need to be able to
um
articulate those those
opinion-based decisions and you need to
own them
and if you fail with some of them you
didn't get it right you you then
own them and fix them and move on right
version one of the ipod wasn't perfect
version one of the iphone wasn't perfect
we got a lot of opinion-based decisions
wrong
but as you go through because you got
more data because v2 you had data on
those original opinions and then you
were able to then modulate off of that
right and you still have new opinions
because those are differentiators that
you that we call differentiators that
the things that you know move the move
the product forward um in its evolution
but at the revolution stage opinions
opinions opinions no data and so you
have this discussion you and steve and
the whole in the stage and the whole
team
uh with opinions
and there you have to be harsh
i i wouldn't say harsh but you have to
be very determined right you know
there are two real opinion-based
decisions that happened on the iphone
one was
the keyboard
should we have a key hardboard keyboard
or should we have a virtual keyboard
the blackberry was the number one
productivity messaging device of its
time
it was called a crackberry for a reason
because people loved it because it had
it was easy to type and you know they
could get their work done
but when you're saying we're gonna move
from that everyone's talking about that
in the market and you say we're going to
move to a virtual keyboard and it's not
going to work as well as the hardware
keyboard
that's an opinion-based decision right
because the data is telling you
yeah all the best sales are over here
god that takes cuts
it takes guts but you have to look at it
from a different point of view and this
is how
i learned to come to understand this
because i had been building you know
virtual keyboards before and i knew
you know the goodness and the badness in
them right but he was like look those
are productivity devices we're making it
where ours is born out of an
entertainment device and productivity
right
we need to show full screen videos we're
going to have apps not apps but our apps
the apple apps because there were no app
store yet are going to take over the
whole screen you want a full screen web
browser you don't want one that's like
half of the device is just a keyboard
maybe you don't need that keyboard in
every instance so we want that part of
the screen to change based on the tool
you may need at the time and maybe it's
just full view right so you have to go
and understand it's a different type of
device just because that's that and it's
successful for that reason the
crackberry for the keyboard that's not
the only thing you're going to do with
this device because people only did
messaging and maybe a few phone calls
right this was going to be so much more
it was going to be an entertainment web
browsing device so you wanted those
tools to go away but it wouldn't be as
good
as the hardware keyboard so that's an
opinion but let me give you another
opinion based decision that got turned
around before it shipped
steve said no sim slot
i don't want any slots we're going to
make it very pure
johnny was like of course no slots
johnny
and
we all looked around go that doesn't
work you can't do that well why does
variety and then he would always and
this was the magic of steve like when
you said no that doesn't work you go
well why does verizon not have any sim
slots
right they showed that you can do a
mobile phone with those limits and
you're like
okay here we go and so
a few days later we come back with
you know and and so uh product marketing
voice of the customer engineering we all
come back with all the data showing how
many
how many data networks and mobile
networks required sim cards versus did
not
and what the trends were and we showed
the data
and that killed the or excuse me brought
back the sim slot on the original iphone
because we're like
he because he was just like we're going
to tell a t to not use a sim yeah right
we're going to just tell him to do it
differently right but we were like if we
want this thing to go anywhere around
the world you want to put that friction
in people are going to move from place
to place you know they have different
sims because of the prices and all that
stuff we had to show all of that data
and then that opinion-based decision got
turned into a data-driven decision and
it and the sim slot obviously showed up
so those are two ver at the very same
time yeah right
opinion can hold and so can data
overrule opinion when data does exist
for a v1 but the at the end of the day
you don't know what the right answer is
so
doing no
uh sim card slot
may have been the right decision
we won't know
because maybe if that was
the decision
then like many times throughout apple's
history you basically change the tide
of how technology is done
yeah absolutely you know you never know
apple started wi-fi people don't
understand wi-fi came out of there there
was no wi-fi in 2001. apple started
wi-fi and then everyone else you know
got onto on board if you look at now
where we're going we're going to phones
without sim slots
because we have e sims right and now the
sim slots becoming legacy legacy as a
legacy port
that legacy portal probably be gone by
six maybe ten years he'll be gone i'm
pretty sure of that
um because it's so much easier for
carries they don't have to have physical
things to go out and right
so right now it's just the early days
but it will happen and it will go its
way it'll fall away but it will take
time you just couldn't do it back then
so timing is essential here but at the
end of the day it's opinions and that's
where the genius is sometimes the data
tells you one thing but the data at the
end of the day does represent the past
exactly and the future may be different
than the past right
uh sometimes there's wisdom in the in
the past and sometimes
it's actually representative of
something that should be
overcome and
progress looks like leaving that stuff
behind
you
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